Quest for the Nihil Stone.dec

[Moczoc]

B
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent discards a card, you may put a quest counter on Quest for the Nihil Stone.
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, if that player has no cards in hand and Quest for the Nihil Stone has two or more quest counters on it, you may have that player lose 5 life.
#64/145

5 damage per round, wow! I've always been a fan of decks with Ensnaring Bridge and The Rack, I wonder if we can break this new "Quest" in a Control/Discard shell.

But how to trigger it if you draw it when your opponent reached the Topdeckmode?: My first thoughts were Anvil of Bogardan and Funeral Charm, but the Anvil is too symmetrical and the Charm only grants 1 counter.

So, I've searched for draw+discard and found Whistful Thinking, Urza's Guilt and Cephalid Coliseum along some Looter-creatures and Burning Inquiry. I clearly will be the better way to go creatureless with the cards mentioned first above. They also work quite well with Megrim.

here is a first draft

Discard
4 Wistful Thinking
2 Urza's Guilt
2 Raven's Crime
3 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

Kill
4 Quest for the Nihil Stone
4 The Rack
3 Megrim

Removal
4 Innocent Blood
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Damnation
4 Ensnaring Bridge

Lands
8 Swamp
3 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island

ideas?

[Jon Stewart]

I think this is a good idea.

But I think you need to play more creature kill/disruption for the many many games you play where you won't see an Ensnaring Bridge, or where your opponent will counter, or pridemage/disenchant away your Ensnaring Bridge. Also, some of the cards that you opted to play aren't very good.

And IMO, when you want creature kill, discard, and disruption, there is no better option than Pox and Smallpox.

So here's my suggestion...

//Land
20 Swamp
2 Cabal Pit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

//1cc Disruption
4 Innocent Blood
4 Thoughtseize
2 Funeral Charm

//2cc Disruption
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox

//3cc Disruption/Lock
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Necrogen Mists
3 Pox

//Win
4 The Rack
4 Quest for the Nihil Stone


The Pox and the Smallpox effects do a great job of wrecking your opponent's lands, hands and creatures, buying you all the time in the world to find and resolve the Ensnaring Bridge.

Plus, they do a great job of causing you to discard your own hands without creating card disadvantage, keeping your hand low enough for Ensnaring Bridge to not let any of your opponent's creatures thru.

Other cards worth testing include... Dark Ritual/Wrench Mind/Raven's Crime/Cry of Contrition/Blackmail/Augur of Skulls/Nezumi Shortfang/Null Brooch/Infernal Tutor/Skeletal Scrying.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Just play it with necrogen mists. Ba da bing ba da boom, 2 card combo since you decide the order to stack them. There's also the creature version of mists, but I wouldn't leave my lock piece succeptible to all forms of creature removal.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Just play it with necrogen mists. Ba da bing ba da boom, 2 card combo since you decide the order to stack them. There's also the creature version of mists, but I wouldn't leave my lock piece succeptible to all forms of creature removal.

This. if you are gonna try and play Nihil Stone you really need a recurring discard outlet.
Also, your deck is gonna need 4x needle in the side. Sensei's Divining Top kills your deck.

[Gocho]

You can play 3 methods for continuous discarding:
- Upkeep discard permanents: Necrogen Mists + Cunning Lethemancer + Botomless Pit
- Combo 1: Chains of Mephistopheles + Anvil of Bogardan
- Combo 2: Life from the Loam + Raven's Crime

The first method is more consistent, but discarding in the upkeep means that he keeps the card in his turn, discards in his upkeep and Quest don't trigger because he has a card. You need an alternative win condition.

Combo 1 needs that you find both cards and put them into play, but the discard effect works in his draw phase. Both can only play instant spells so you need your kill condition into play before play the combo cards.

Combo 2 needs both cards too, but Loam can finds Raven's Crime easily. Skips your "draw turn" and gives you mana to play your kill cards or discard 3 cards of his hand.

Every method have pros and cons. Test them and choose one, I can't see which is the best one but I like Loam+Raven's Crime. You could need a method to "Regrowth" your kill cards

@Phoenix Ignition
How do you attach the card image?
I try it and I can't do the same :P

[Phoenix Ignition]

The first method is more consistent, but discarding in the upkeep means that he keeps the card in his turn, discards in his upkeep and Quest don't trigger because he has a card. You need an alternative win condition.
Incorrect, it will trigger if you stack them correctly. When his/her upkeep starts all relevant abilities will trigger. The order of them is decided upon by the player who controls them in APNAP form (opponent whose turn it is stacks the trigger(s) in the order he chooses, then you stack your triggers on top of his). You choose to stack Nihil Stone first, then Necrogen Mists on top of that.

Each trigger resolves, so N Mists will make him/her discard a card before Nihil Stone's trigger checks. If he/she discarded his/her last card and it has 2 counters on it (it gets one from this discard) then Nihil Stone will -5 them.


@Phoenix Ignition
How do you attach the card image?
I try it and I can't do the same :P

Type [ cards ] [ /cards ] without the spaces around whichever cards you want linked. If you want a list of them linked you can just type that once around all of them and it will link all of them.

Gotta love that change!

[Moczoc]

thx for the replies, but I think you didn't get it right why I am considering these strange blue spells. I will edit the OP to make it more clear. It isn't a matter of constant discard, there are enough possibilies to get a constant source of discard.

The thing is: If your opponent is in Topdeckmode (and this will happen quite fast and often) and you draw the Nihil Quest, it is almost impossible to get the 2 counters, so that it is a dead card. The only possibilites to get the counters are:

1. Let your opponent draw+discard
2. discards spells at instant speed


Another version to build the deck (a better version? with Pox and Bottomless Pit?) would be a red splash for Burning Wish that will be used for Burning Inquiry to activate the Quest or just gets I. Blood or Blackmail. Then for a very fast version, Storm World could replace Megrim ..

[Gocho]

Incorrect, it will trigger if you stack them correctly. When his/her upkeep starts all relevant abilities will trigger. The order of them is decided upon by the player who controls them in APNAP form (opponent whose turn it is stacks the trigger(s) in the order he chooses, then you stack your triggers on top of his). You choose to stack Nihil Stone first, then Necrogen Mists on top of that.

Each trigger resolves, so N Mists will make him/her discard a card before Nihil Stone's trigger checks. If he/she discarded his/her last card and it has 2 counters on it (it gets one from this discard) then Nihil Stone will -5 them.


Are you sure?
As I see, with the Bottomless Pit trigger in the stack, Quest for the Nihil Stone doesn't trigger because he has a card at the beginning of the upkeep. I think that the condition needs to be checked in trigger and in resolution.

[Jon Stewart]

He's talking about Necrogen Mists, not Bottomless Pit. Sorry for the confusion, I used the wrong card in my decklist but it's fixed now.

I think the decklist I posted above is a great approach to this..

//Land
20 Swamp
2 Cabal Pit
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

//1cc Disruption
4 Innocent Blood
4 Thoughtseize
2 Funeral Charm

//2cc Disruption
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox

//3cc Disruption/Lock
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Necrogen Mists
3 Pox

//Win
4 The Rack
4 Quest for the Nihil Stone


The deck could even play some of the other black utility lands (Borgs, Tomb of Urami etc)

[Moczoc]

It's not realistic to rely on 2 Funeral Charm to get the counters for Quest f. N. S. against an opponent in topdeckmode. And they are in fact 4 of your 8 winconditions.

[Kangaxx]

5 damage per round, wow! I've always been a fan of decks with Ensnaring Bridge and The Rack, I wonder if we can break this new "Quest" in a Control/Discard shell.

But how to trigger it if you draw it when your opponent reached the Topdeckmode?: My first thoughts were Anvil of Bogardan and Funeral Charm, but the Anvil is too symmetrical and the Charm only grants 1 counter.

So, I've searched for draw+discard and found Whistful Thinking, Urza's Guilt and Cephalid Coliseum along some Looter-creatures and Burning Inquiry. I clearly will be the better way to go creatureless with the cards mentioned first above. They also work quite well with Megrim.

here is a first draft

Discard
4 Wistful Thinking
2 Urza's Guilt
2 Raven's Crime
3 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

Kill
4 Quest for the Nihil Stone
4 The Rack
3 Megrim

Removal
4 Innocent Blood
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Damnation
4 Ensnaring Bridge

Lands
8 Swamp
3 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island

ideas?


I have been testing a monoblack version of a similiar deck with Chain's of Mephistopheles and Anvil of Bogardan. I think that running this particular combo is the best approach when playing Quest, and it's especially good with Ensnaring Bridge, as well.

[Jon Stewart]

It's one thing if this was a competitive deck, but I don't think anyone would be willing to invest the $300+ to getting a playset of Chains for such a casual deck.

Anvil by itself works well and combos with Quest for Nihil.

Perhaps 4 Anvil and 4 Funeral Charm should suffice. God I wish there was some other instant speed discard spells.

Edit: If you're in a really casual environment that allows Unhinged cards, you can play 4 copies of Stop That alongside the 4 Funeral Charm to serve as your instant speed discard.

[Bigface]

This deck needs more Nyxathid IMHO. Works great in this deck. Also, what about Dark Ritual for an accell?

EDIT: I'm testing this list. It looks good.

// Lands
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 [TO] Cabal Coffers
19 [ARE] Swamp (1)

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 [ALA] Cunning Lethemancer
3 [CFX] Nyxathid

// Spells
3 [4E] The Rack
4 [WWK] Quest for the Nihil Stone
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [TSP] Smallpox
4 [MR] Necrogen Mists
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
4 [MM] Dark Ritual

Both Lethemancer and Mists help with constant discard effects. Gatekeeper is Blood with legs. Ritual for accel. Nyxathid is kinda good in discard decks, they say.

[Uncoordinated]

Why don't you just stick it in a monoblack Crucible Pox build? If I remember, Pox runs The Rack, as well as a number of discard effects. Slotting in Quest would be cake.

In fact, you'd probably be best slotting it in as a damage-dealer in any Pox build. It could go right in to replace any number of life-loss inflicting dudes/artifacts/enchantments.

[Moczoc]

As I won't concentrate the build around the Quest I postet my newer list in the normal Pox Thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4300-%5BDeck%5D-Pox/page71

This thread can be closed I think.

[Jon Stewart]

I've recently come to realize how effective Noetic Scales (and Ensnaring Bridge) are with continous discard effects. I play it with Oppression and it's been fantastic. Making your opponent's creatures useless is a very good bonus for this strategy.

I think we've looked at this deck from the wrong direction. If we want to lock them out, this is what we should play.

Quest 2.0 (Abusing Ensanring Bridge and Noetic Scales)

19 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual

//2cc Disruption
4 Hymn to Tourach

//3cc Disruption
4 Pox

//Lock
4 Oppression/Bottomless Pit
4 Necrogen Mist
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Noetic Scales

//Win
4 The Rack
3 Quest for the Nihil Stone
1 Powder Keg

I really don't see any flaws to this deck. Do you?

[dahcmai]

I'm just going to start off with saying I really, really, hate Quest for Nihil Stone. It's a horrid card, I have no hope for it whatsoever, but at least I will try and help you out because it never hurts.


Let's start with this

Uba Mask. Kind of solves a lot of problems for you.

1. Activates Ensnaring Bridge and keeps it in the golden range.
2. Turns off Counters.
3. Makes stuff like Necrogen Mists, Duress, and such pretty much perma discard.
4. Lots of stupid tricks are opened up by playing this card. Note the Bazaar trick in Vintage. Draw two, no discard thing.

Seems ok.

Another interesting card that might "just maybe" be worth trying is Parallax Nexus. It probably will suck, but enabling your kill quick might be a good thing.

There's always Chains of Mephistopheles, but I hate bringing that card up since it's rare for people to own any and it's confusing as hell to people and explaining it sucks.

Hope I helped in your quest to make that card not suck.

[Jon Stewart]

I'm just going to start off with saying I really, really, hate Quest for Nihil Stone.

Uba Mask. Kind of solves a lot of problems for you.

1. Activates Ensnaring Bridge and keeps it in the golden range.
2. Turns off Counters.
3. Makes stuff like Necrogen Mists, Duress, and such pretty much perma discard.
4. Lots of stupid tricks are opened up by playing this card. Note the Bazaar trick in Vintage. Draw two, no discard thing.



I agree with you on Quest. I could easily see myself cutting it and playing Phyrexian Totem instead if I ever decide to cut Ensnaring Bridge and just count on Noetic Scales for the lock.

Uba Mask an awesome suggestion. It actually makes only 4 copies of Necrogen Mists/Oppression neccesary.

Also, what do you think is better in a deck like this,

Bottomless Pit

or

Necrogen Mists

or

Oppression

You only need one of those three when you're playing Uba Mask imo. Bottomless Pit is more disruptive. Mists is more consistent. But Oppression is more one sided (it affects your opponents (esp with all the Brainstorms running around) more than it does you).

[Jon Stewart]

I'm thinking, maybe the best option for this deck is to a Stax route (minus the Chalice of the Void).

Something akin to...

10 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize

// The four synergic cards that are the reason to play this deck.
4 Necrogen Mists
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Uba Mask
4 Noetic Scales

4 The Rack
4 Powder Keg
4 Trinisphere
4 Mind Shatter/Mindscrew/Mind Rot/Mind Twist/Persecute/Profane Command

Uba Mask is fantastic. It combos with Ensnaring Bridge or Noetic Scales to lock your opponent's creatures out. Necrogen Mists likewise works well with all of those cards. It also prevents all instants, countermagic and other shenanigans that Stax had never been able to use and was always vulnerable to.

Alternatively, the deck could play Chalice and maybe Chains of the Mephistopheles but it would have to cut The Rack, Quest, Dark Ritual and Thoughtseize and use Sorin Markov and maybe Megrim for the combo. The problem is that Uba Mask isn't great with Megrim.

Or maybe the deck should through the Contagion combo in their as well along with Crucible of Worlds, Wasteland, Mishra's Factory, Mox Diamond and Smokestack.

[DarthVicious]

4 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
3 Thoughtseize
2 Raven's Crime
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Quest for the Nihil Stone
4 The Rack
4 Chains of Mephistopheles
4 Anvil of Bogardan
3 Brink of Madness
2 The Abyss
18 Swamp

Innocent Blood & Ensnaring Bridge: For shutting down quick creatures long enough to set up the lock.
The Abyss: Keeps creatures off the table if necessary.
Thoughtseize & Hymn to Tourach: Disruption & lock protection.
Raven's Crime: The deck doesn't need more than 4 swamps in play, once you have them, the rest become discard spells.
The Rack & Quest for the Nihil Stone: Win conditions. I want to find room for Liliana's Caress, however.
Chains of Mephistopheles & Anvil of Bogardan: Locks anyone with an empty hand and no win conditions out of the game.
Brink of Madness: Late-game sledgehammer to get rid of their hand, if they still have one.

I know old Legends rares aren't cheap. I've had them for a long time, I've been playing monoblack since Revised hit the shelves. Any thoughts or comments are welcome.

EDIT:
-4 Quest for the Nihil Stone
-3 Brink of Madness

+4 Liliana's Caress
+3 Bottomless Pit

Quest & Brink are too interdependent on other things happening too be any good (or is it evil?)
Caress starts killing them regardless of their hand size, and the Pit is more disruptive than the other options.
I thought about Megrim or Mindstab instead of Bottomless Pit also, and decided a permanent would be better.