[Deck] WW_FTW

[zabuza]

Hi everybody,
I´m trying to develop a white deck that i think has lot of potential. Because the metagame i´m trying to use the optimal cards to face every deck or at least has options to do it.

My initial list is the following:

4 x Mother of runes
4 x Martyr of sands
4 x Aether vial
4 x Path to exile
4 x Silver Knight
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
4 x Knight of the white orchid
4 x Kor Skyfisher
1 x Umezawa´s Jitte
1 x Sword of light and Shadow
1 x Mask of memory
1 x Basilisk Collar
3 x Mangara of Corondor

3 x Karakas
3 x Mistveil Plains
1 x Emeria the sky ruin
2 x Flagstones of trokair
9 x Plains

The deck has lot of tricks and sinergies inside and although uses ssome of the elements Death&Taxes has, tries to go in a different direction.

The explanation of the cards and what is supposed to try to accomplish with it:

Mother of runes: This little mom is known by everybody, if it´s unanswered when comes into play it becomes on a safe-ward for all our creatures. Cheap and can help to avoid the removals the opponent can cast or to give any of our dudes protection to block or attack.
Martyr of sands: This other is because nowdays there are lot of naya-burn-goyfsligt and lot of ANT combo. This girl provides as more time to stabilize the match against zoo and such while help us to survive against ANT. You can play it at the begining and wait, ANT Opponent usually must cast at least 18 spells to win (36 life, you know) or cast it with vial in response to the tendrils. Also helps against dredge removing Bridges from the game.
Aether vial:This is utterly known by everybody. It makes our dudes un-countereable and free. it usually stays at 2 counters.
Path to exile:The removal. Synergy with Knight of the white orchid and removes any fatty from the game.
Knight of the white orchid:It has synergy with PTE, with kor Skyfisher and has First strike which is very important here because FS + basilisk is nuts in combat.
Silver Knight:The beater. Has FS and it´s protection from red (with the amount of burn in the format) makes him a good choice i think. Usually removal is red or white and with the pro-red + the pro-white given by mother (or SOLAS) this guy is the best.
Stoneforge Mystic:The engine. This girl provides us any equipment we need so we can use to equipment only the necessary slots and can play different equipment which makes the deck more versatile. Fetch for any equipment. Also has synergy with skyfisher.
Kor Skyfisher : This dude flies over the enemy, has a evasion, a big ass and return our dudes to gain land advantage (KOTWO), equipment advantage (SM) or played with vial saves any of our other guys from removal, saves karakas from wastelands and so on.
Umezawa´s Jitte:Best equipment, we only play one because we can search for it with kor and because we are playing karakas so we can save it from any removal.
Sword of light and Shadow:Gives protection from 2 removal colors, provide life to stay on the play and recover dead effectives (and with martyrs is a party).
Mask of memory:: More card advantage. Can be fetched if needed.
Basilisk Collar:REMOVAL. This equipment help us to be the king on the combat phase. Any of the first strikers become a removal with legs. Provides life and kill any monster before it can touch our dudes.
Mangara of Corondor:The removal. Because we are using karakas we can play this guy to remove any permanent we need to. We can play it in a similar way like D&T can do because kor skyfisher(with vial obv.) and karakas.
Karakas:The most important land. We can save mangara, jitte, return a flagstones so we can gain land advantake with KOTWO and can remove threats like IONA naming white, Marit Lage and so.
Mistveil Plains: This land is here to recover any important equipment or card we had lost. We can recover a destroyed equipment and search again with kor.
Emeria the sky ruin:For recurring dudes like martyrs
Flagstones of trokair:For gaining land advantage with KOTWO and to survive a geddon or devastating dreams.
Plains: OBV. Not fetches because with this manabase we are inmune to stifles.

I think the deck is strong enough to fight against lot of decks, but still I think there are several problems to solve.
The deck is not aggro but in this days is good to have an ULTRA_FAST way to finish the game. Like other decks can play progenitus or Iona this deck hasn´t a big monster to finish the game in two turns. The only think i can think on is playing any doublestriker guy (kor duelist or so) to be equipped with jitte (In this scenario it finishes the game in two turns, but .....who knows?)

Sideboard is another think to worry about. I´m thinking on playing in the side:
* True believer/gaddock teeg : to stop combo. Gaddock can be saved with karakas but requires splashing to green.
* Brave the Elements: More color hosers to prevent pyroclasm, and targeted removal.
* Jotun Grunt/Relic/tormods: Graveyard hate
* Disenchant/ Ray of revelation (if splash to green)/Serenity (bad for your equipments)/ any removal for artifacts and enchantments. Disenchant is bad but i can´t think on something better than it. If only krosan grip was white...

What do you think? Can you help me to improve the deck?

[Maveric78f]

If you want to play equipments start playing the good equipment wearer:
- Serra Avenger
- Kor Duelist
- Kazandu Blademaster
...

But actually, you have no game plan against any of the main decks. ANT will laugh at MoS face. Merfolk will counterspell the equipments and overwhelm you. The same for any U-based deck. Your creatures are not impressive at all. Dream Halls will combo against absolutely no resistance. Rock will deed. EE hurts a lot too.

Only burn and gob will have hard time (definitely very hard time).

The funniest about your list is that Engineered Plague on Human completely rapes you.

[zabuza]

I´m not agree with you. I wrote a big answer but it has dissapeared so i´m trying to answer you fastly.

Serra avenger is not good. It´s bolt--able and dies to any removal on the format.

Believe me Martyr can own an ANT player. You cast it when he is going to combo (finishes drawing) and 15 life are lot of them. Usually ANT decks only has one Win con MD. Sideboarding you have true believer.

Merfolks are not a problem. equipment can be played via mystic(that can be played via vial).

DH needs to combo you with progenitus because martyr make you begin with more than 20 lifes and they can cast ultimatum to kill you. Kor duelist with jitte is a 2 turn clock.

Engineered plague to humans is not a problem. kill mothers and so, but kors kan finish the game by themselves.

With karaakas you can recover jitte when needed so EE, deed and sso are not as useful as you can expect.

Do you think this deck is not worthile? Can you help me to improve it?

[brattin]

Karakas can't return Jitte. It's errata-ed to read "Legendary creature."

I gave up on D&T because I thought it was too slow / inconsistant, and I think this looks mostly worse.

I'd play more Jittes, though. Are you even running Kor Duelist? They look fun, at least.

[Forbiddian]

Serra avenger is not good. It´s bolt--able and dies to any removal on the format.

So? I thought you ran Mother of Runes for a reason. If all the creatures in the deck have to be pro red, then what's the point of Mother of Runes? Even if not, you're wasting your time with Mangara of Corandor, certainly you don't care that much about boltability. I can say it's pretty broken.



Believe me Martyr can own an ANT player. You cast it when he is going to combo (finishes drawing) and 15 life are lot of them. Usually ANT decks only has one Win con MD. Sideboarding you have true believer.

If you don't run countermagic, you're gonna get stomped by combo. It's actually pretty delusional to think that gaining some life gain will turn this into a good matchup for you. Life-gain is good, but not only is it your ONLY gameplan, it's not even hard to play around. Just cast Ill-Gotten Gains, get the Tendrils back, Tendrils again.



Merfolks are not a problem. equipment can be played via mystic(that can be played via vial).

Yeah, this deck looks like it smashes Merfolk. You don't run Islands, have better creatures, and have equipment.



Do you think this deck is not worthile? Can you help me to improve it?

Serra Avenger is really good. Jotun Grunt as well. Both seem to fit your deck.

Mask of Memory is almost in every way worse than a second Jitte. I can't really see ever wanting to tutor it or Basilisk Collar up. I'd just run like 2 Jittes and maybe the other Sword.

[Maveric78f]

I´m not agree with you. I wrote a big answer but it has dissapeared so i´m trying to answer you fastly.

Serra avenger is not good. It´s bolt--able and dies to any removal on the format.
Like 80% of the creatures you play. Like 75% of the creatures played in legacy.


Believe me Martyr can own an ANT player. You cast it when he is going to combo (finishes drawing) and 15 life are lot of them. Usually ANT decks only has one Win con MD. Sideboarding you have true believer
An ANT player that does not know how to play. plus most ANT players play also IGG.


Merfolks are not a problem. equipment can be played via mystic(that can be played via vial).
And you won't equip before being dead.


DH needs to combo you with progenitus because martyr make you begin with more than 20 lifes and they can cast ultimatum to kill you. Kor duelist with jitte is a 2 turn clock.
1/ You don't play Kor Duelist.
2/ Martyr of not, after 4 CU, you don't have creatures in play and you don't have any card in hand.
3/ Prog is a 2-turns clock as well.
4/ Most DH decks play an infinite (or at least more than 20 life loss) kill.


Engineered plague to humans is not a problem. kill mothers and so, but kors kan finish the game by themselves.
Kills mother, martyr, mangara, Kazandu (which you don't but should play).


With karaakas you can recover jitte when needed so EE, deed and sso are not as useful as you can expect.
Karakas only bounces Mangara in your list.

[Maveric78f]

Yeah, this deck looks like it smashes Merfolk. You don't run Islands, have better creatures, and have equipment.
I can't tell if it's sarcastic. But clearly, this deck gets smashed by Merfolks.


Mask of Memory is almost in every way worse than a second Jitte. I can't really see ever wanting to tutor it or Basilisk Collar up. I'd just run like 2 Jittes and maybe the other Sword.
Basilisk collar is really great, especially with first strike and/or vigilance.

[zabuza]

I don´t think this deck is smashed by merfolks at all. They have counters, you have better creatures, and lot of removal (path to exile and basilisk collar with First striking dudes). Think that Basilisk collar kills any merfolk that attack you and give you at least a couple of lifes.

Now I´ve included in my list Kazandu bladeMaster and Hada Freeblade. Kazandu is good because can beat and block and usually is pumped with other allies.

The list I´m playing now is:

4 x Aether vial
4 x Mother of runes
4 x Hada Freeblade
4 x Path to exile
4 x Silver Knight
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
4 x Knight of the white orchid
4 x Kazandu Blademaster
4 x Kor Skyfisher
2 x Umezawa´s Jitte
1 x Sword of light and Shadow
2 x Basilisk Collar
2 x Mangara of Corondor

3 x Karakas
1 x Mistveil Plains
1 x Emeria the sky ruin
3 x Flagstones of trokair
11 x Plains

In fact I´m thinking on including a couple or so Ghost way because it can be a party in this deck. Lot of your creatures make something when they comes into play (KOTWO, Allies, Mystic) so 16 creatures are there to do it. What do you think? Ghostway is an anti-removal spell that give me lot of advantage when resolved. I´m still thinking if it can be stifled, but anyways the benefits from using it are greater than it cons.

Any more ideas??

[Oibade]

Greetings to everybody.

I believe you play way too many equipments: I guess 3 is the right number. I would remove 1 Collar and the Sword.
In fact, you can afford to keep few copies per equiment, since you can fetch them with Stoneforge Mystic.
Keeping one collar is a good idea since it's quite strong with first strikers (quite an answer to Goyf).
Also, I suggest you should add 3x/4x Aethersworn Canonist as well, since it is a good weapon against storm combo. Maybe in place of Knight of the white orchid.
I think you also need some Graveyard Hate maindeck: Jotun Grunt OR Samurai of the Pale Curtain may be of some help; I would add them and cut Silver Knight for the side. In fact, I believe Stoneforge Mystic + Umezawa's Jitte is more than enough for the Burn/Goblin matchup.

About Ghostway: it costs too much for too little; moreover, I believe few decks play mass removal to justify its adding to the deck.

[zabuza]

[Quote]I believe you play way too many equipments: I guess 3 is the right number. I would remove 1 Collar and the Sword.
In fact, you can afford to keep few copies per equiment, since you can fetch them with Stoneforge Mystic. [\Quote]
Keeping one collar is a good idea since it's quite strong with first strikers (quite an answer to Goyf).

You are right, 5 equipments are lot of them. I´ve included more because i´ve reduced the amount of ways to recover them when are destroyed but playing Jotun Grunts solve this problem. The problem is that we doesn´t play lot of fetches or cards that goes easily to the grave so sometimes feeding the Jotun can be difficult.

Collar is the nuts with all the first striking creatures we have so it´s a must here. Jitte is awesome as everybody knows.
I´m playing the sword because it gives more life and recover any dead creature we have. Beside of that giving protection from white to a silver knight make it almost inmune to the 90% of the removal played in legacy so I think it must remain here. So the equipments would be:
1 Collar
1 Jitte
1 Sword

Would you use any other equipment?? Mask of memory? Bonesplitter?

[Quote]Also, I suggest you should add 3x/4x Aethersworn Canonist as well, since it is a good weapon against storm combo. Maybe in place of Knight of the white orchid.[\Quote]

We need FS creatures and KOTWO is one of them. It also provides more lands to help us equiping our creatures and has synergy with kor skyfiher and so. I think it must remain here.

[Quote]I believe you also need Graveyard Hate: Jotun Grunt OR Samurai of the Pale Curtain may be of some help; I would add them and cut Silver Knight for the side. In fact, I believe Stoneforge Mystic + Umezawa's Jitte is more than enough for the Burn/Goblin matchup.[\Quote]

As I said before I´m thinking on including Jotun grunt (Which is better???), because it can recover any destroyed equipment but I don´t know Which of them is better. I think jotun is because it helps against survival too so... What do you think?

Silver knight must also remains in the deck because it has FS and because his pro-red help against the HUGE amount of naya-Zoo-Goyfslight-Burn decks in the format.

[Quote]About Ghostway: it costs too much for too little; moreover, I believe few decks play mass removal to justify its adding to the deck. [\Quote]

I doesn´t think on ghostway as an anti-removal card (although it is too), but as a combo card in the deck. (i.e. imagine you have a KOTWO, a mystic, a Hada freeblade and a kazandu, and you play Ghostway at the end of the opponent´s turn. You are gaining two cards (an equipment (collar) and a land which will help you equipping the kazandu for example and your guys are gaining +2/+2 so now you have a 3/3 FS vigilance and a 2/3). It would be better if you have more than one of them. I see it like a way to return our "gain something when this enter in the battlefield" creatures and perhaps save them from EE or deeds.

Hopefully there would be a way to abuse of playing our dudes time after time, but i can´t think on a better way to do it.

More ideas?? Please keep helping.

[Oibade]

I guess it depends on the meta you are playing.
If you play in a meta full of aggro decks like Zoo/Burn/Sligh/Goblins then Silver Knight is a good choice. Otherwise I strongly recommend adding Ethersworn Canonist, which is pretty good against combo decks. In fact I also expect this deck to suck against ANT/Storm/Dream Halls.

As for the equipments, the 3 ones you are using are fine.

I am skeptical about Knight of the White Orchid: it forces you to wait for your opponent's land drop, while against aggro and combo you need to be as fast as you can. This is why I would remove it for
Samurai/Jotun.
I personally prefer Samurai, since it does not have major drawbacks as Jotun and is substantially a 3/3 in combat.

As for Ghostway: it is really slow, and the come into play abilities of your creatures are not game-winning. Moreover, you need many creatures already on the battlefield in order for it to work. If that is the case, you would already be winning. If you want to play around with come into play abilities i guess Flickerwisp is a good choice, since it has flying and can also remove opponent's threats for a turn.

I guess D&T would be a better choice for you.

[zabuza]

I´ve decided to play 2 jitte and 2 collar. I think they are the right amount and combination of equipments. Aren´t they?

You are right with Ghost way. I´m not going to play it because you need lot of creatures in play to benefit playing it and lot of times it´s a win more card.

I must play silver knight because there are lot og aggro decks in my meta. I think they are needed here.

About playing something to stop combo there is three cards I´m thinking of:
Ethersworn Canonist: Doesn´t help a lot against DH (only show and tell -->progenitus) but stops ANT and slows you too.
True believer:Doesn´t help a lot against DH (only show and tell -->progenitus) but stops ANT and slows a little to any direct damage deck
Gaddok teeg:Doesn´t help a lot against DH (only show and tell -->progenitus) but stops ANT and helps against EE, and lot of other stuff but needs Splashing to green.

None of them help me in both match-ups. The only card that I think could help in both matches are Meddling mage, but it´s fragile enough to not be played because you need two mages to stop them.

There are lot of ways delaing with progenitus (curfeu, tariff,...) and so on, but this is sideboard material so I would like to find anything that help us here against any of these combos.

Scour can be an option to play against DH, or even ray of revelation, but.....

I´m thinking on including in the deck 4 x "Remote Farm" because although it enters into the battelfield tapped later it provides WW to play almost every card in the deck. This land could fit here because can be recovered with skyfisher and makes KOTWO even better because you can tap for 2, play kotwo searching for sure a land and then playing another one so you are gaining WWWW there. I´m going to test them.

Anyways, lot of thanks for everything

Have you more ideas?? What do you think about the cards I´ve mentioned. I´ll be waiting for your answers.

[Oibade]

Retribution of the Meek is an awesome answer to Prog + Goyf + Tombstalker + Fatties in general, while not harming your creatures.

However, Canonist protects you from dream halls since, once your opponent has dream halls in play, he can play only one spell per turn thus delaying his victory, while you find disruption. Moreover, it is sinergic with Aether Vial and Equipments.
Anyway, other than Oblivion Ring, I consider Abolish a good removal for artifacts/enchantments.

I suppose you should use as many basic lands as possible, since you won't be harmed by cards like Price of Progress and Wasteland.

Something like:

14-15 Plains
3-4 Karakas
4 Wasteland / Flagstones (if you play mass land/permanent disruption)

22 Lands total

[Forbiddian]

I can't tell if it's sarcastic. But clearly, this deck gets smashed by Merfolks.

False. Obviously you haven't played much Merfolk, but any deck with a lot of creatures, some removal, and a ton of equipment is going to be a nightmare for Merfolk, especially one immune to stifles and very resistant to wasteland without any islands.

Merfolk's strength is not beating random jank, it's pretty hard-metagamed against the top decks. This deck's weaknesses are going to be like any combo deck or control deck, but it probably rapes Burn, Goblins, and Merfolk.



Basilisk collar is really great, especially with first strike and/or vigilance.

Yeah, it has to be better than Jitte to be worth playing though. You mention the abilities that make Jitte ridiculous and say that this makes Basilisk Collar good. At any rate, Mask of Memory has no business being here.

[Maveric78f]

False. Obviously you haven't played much Merfolk
Probably more than you. No offense and not willing to brag about anything because I've never brought it in tourney, but I am right after Finn, the first who played this deck and who made this archetype develop. I can't find the original Merfolk thread when it was not DTB. But I found one of the directions I've taken at some time with the deck.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?8097-[Deck]-Ubg-Merfolk&highlight=merfolk

Obvoiusly, I've never tested this particular MU, but I don't see how it can compete. Only Jitte is a threat.

[Grollub]

Probably more than you. No offense and not willing to brag about anything because I've never brought it in tourney, but I am right after Finn, the first who played this deck and who made this archetype develop. I can't find the original Merfolk thread when it was not DTB. But I found one of the directions I've taken at some time with the deck.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?8097-[Deck]-Ubg-Merfolk&highlight=merfolk

Obvoiusly, I've never tested this particular MU, but I don't see how it can compete. Only Jitte is a threat.
Oh get over youself. Fish was a well established deck many many years ago. The current modern fish lists, are much more a step backwards in time than forward (not that it is bad) too.

Kor Skyfisher strikes me a little out of place, it's only really useful with an active Aether Vial. Regarding improving your combo matchup, have you considered trying Glowrider? It'd play nicely with a subtheme Knight of the White Orchid got going; maybe try out Rishadan Port and Winter Orb (got the sidebonus of making Path to exile better) in conjunction with it too?

Mask of Memory is really lacklusting compared to the other equipment available, Sword of Fire and Ice or an additional Umezawa's Jitte would probably be better.

[zabuza]

I´m with Forbiddian, I´ve tested the deck against merfolks (only 3 matches because limited time) and won all of them. You have more equipment, you have better creatures (because FS and collar are great) and you have lot of basic lands so they can´t slow you down enough. They have counters but vials help a lot and our equipment are uncountereable too because mystic. Beside of that we have 4 path tho deal with her first lords and after that it is easy. I don´t know if i´ve been very lucky, my opponent was a bad player (mws is not very selective ;) ) but i have nice thoughts about the deck.

This deck has lot of threats, Any FS creature with collar is a threat (specially kazandu blademaster), collar is a threat (deadtouch and lifeling is very useful), jitte is another one and you also have evasive dudes and card advantage.

Great idea about retribution of the meek. It cleans the table of fatties (although collar and FS does the same ;) except with progenitus so I´m going to include them in the side ;) ).

Kor skyfisher is the weakest card by now in the deck but Still I have to play it because has lot of nice combos with every other creature in the deck, has flying (wich is useful sometimes) and can do nice tricks with vial. Another option was flickerwisp but its CC3 is a trouble because usually vial is set at 2 counters so increasing it to 3 is not a good choice. Another posible option was stonecloaker but it only return creatures so I´m limiting the tricks i can do with it.

[woremak]

Did you try testing Figure of Destiny over Hada Freeblade. I just wonder if the ally interaction is really that good with eight allies. Additionally, if you are concerned with fighting aggro, Knight of the Holy Nimbus seems like a better detterent than Silver Knight.

[Digital Devil]

Let's build a deck based on the best white cards we have access to.

In the 1cc range
Isamaru, Hound of Konda; Mother of Runes; Weathered Wayfarer; Burrenton Forge-Tender; Figure of Destiny; Swords to Plowshares; Enlightened Tutor; Path to Exile.

In the 2cc range
Silver Knight; Stoneforge Mystic; Samurai of the Pale Curtain; Ethersworn Canonist; Soltari Priest; Knight of the White Orchid; Serra Avenger; Jotun Grunt; Kazandu Blademaster.

In the 3cc range
Aven Mindcensor; Flickerwisp; Mirror Entity; Augury Adept; Kitchen Finks; Mangara of Corondor; Oblivion Ring; Glowrider.

In the 4cc range
Armageddon; Parallax Wave; Cataclysm; Elspeth, Knight-Errant.
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Let's make a list of the remaining cards we can/will play into this deck:

In the 1cc range
Aether Vial; Pithing Needle; Basilisk Collar; Relic of Progenitus.

In the 2cc range
Umezawa's Jitte; Mask of Memory; Thorn of Amethyst.

In the 3cc range
Sword of Fire and Ice; Sword of Light and Shadow.
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We have to clearly think about our deck's core. Now, assume if we play :2: lands and Chrome Mox we're leading towards a Stompy shell; imagine Wrath of God belongs to a more controllish approach; imagine Tormod's Crypt as a sideboard choice if we're playing Jotun Grunt. To make things more easy to comprehend:

List of possible synergies:
Flagstones of Trokair + Cataclysm
Flagstones of Trokair + Armageddon
Path to Exile + Aven Mindcensor
Path to Exile + Knight of the White Orchid
Path to Exile + Tithe
Path to Exile + Armageddon (also a dis-synergy if reversed)
Path to Exile + Cataclysm (also a dis-synergy if reversed)
Karakas + Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Karakas + Mangara of Corondor
Mother of Runes + Ethersworn Canonist
Aether Vial + Armageddon
Aether Vial + Cataclysm
Wasteland + Weathered Wayfarer
Jotun Grunt + Cataclysm
Jotun Grunt + Armageddon
Parallax Wave + Jotun Grunt
Parallax Wave + Stoneforge Mystic
Parallax Wave + Kitchen Finks
Flickerwisp + Stoneforge Mystic
Wasteland + Weathered Wayfarer
Elspeth, Knight-Errant + (equipment)
Basilisk Collar/Umezawa's Jitte + Silver Knight/Kazandu Blademaster/Knight of the White Orchid
Aether Vial + Wasteland + Knight of the White Orchid
Aether Vial + Flickerwisp + Oblivion Ring
Aether Vial + Karakas + Mangara of Corondor
Jotun Grunt + Wasteland + Weathered Wayfarer
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-If we're playing both Aether Vial and Mangara of Corondor, we should play Death'n'Taxes instead.
-If we're playing Chrome Mox and :2: lands, we should play Angel Stompy.
-If we're playing Armageddon, Elspeth and ways to abuse land destruction, we should play White Stax, which also has a lock gameplan.
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This leaves us with a straight mono-white aggro deck. I always loved the old days in which Savannah Lions + Crusade overwhelmed my opponents. But things have changed since then. We should be faster in order to compete. Thus, cards like Mistveil Plains should be cut from our hypothetical list. Tempo loss + pseudo-missing a land drop is bad. If our main goal is to be fast, we should either play acceleration or have low cost/free spells. If we're playing acceleration spells, we're talking about another deck. That said, we must play low-cc spells. And our curve should be maxed out @4, with only 2-3 cards in the 4cc range. Cards like Aether Vial, Swords to Plowshares (and to a lesser extent Path to Exile), Mother of Runes are vital. We also have to be disruptive, meaning we're not playing creatures relying on their combat efficiency in order to survive, since they're indeed efficient, but they're small. Ethersworn Canonist, Samurai of the Pale Curtain, and our newly-acquired engine, Stoneforge Mystic, where art thou?. We also need mid-to-late-game finishers. *Stares at Jotun Grunt and Serra Avenger*. We can't play both Avenger and Grunt, since the deck would lack speed and we could risk too much *draw/go* situations. Serra Avenger is a better card in a vacuum because it has evasion, keeps on the defensive while beating hard, and she carries pretty well our equipments, which are here to help being superior during the combat phase. Playing Stoneforge Mystic leads us to the point where we are maindecking a singleton (or, with few exceptions, 2x) copy of the most relevant equipments. Umezawa's Jitte, Basilisk Collar, Sword of Fire and Ice. Mask of Memory is one of the honorable mentions, but without acceleration why are we playing it? Seeking for CA, Elspeth is probably the card we need to play in place of Mask. She makes our creatures connect, provides card advantage in form of creatures and protects herself. And she also speeds up the clock, the thing we mostly need. Merging the totality of these elements, we can obtain many different lists, depending on the quantity of the cards (and also on which cards) we play. A sample list:

LANDS (19)
15x Plains
3x Wasteland
1x Plains

CREATURES (28)
4x Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Serra Avenger
4x Mother of Runes
3x Aven Mindcensor
3x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Figure of Destiny
3x Knight of the White Orchid

SPELLS (13)
4x Path to Exile
4x Aether Vial
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
Pretty rough list, it has a hard time against combo and control, while it has a decent matchup against aggro and aggro-control. Well, by playing mono-white we're accepting to lose against non-creature based decks, unless we have some way to accelerate into our most powerful spells. Playing a deck like this, with no acceleration and lack of synergies, isn't a good choice. Aggro decks are either super fast (Zoo), or they have strong interactions (Merfolk), or they have both (Goblins). I don't think the classic WW list I just posted a few lines upwards has a chance in today's meta. I've thrown the first stone. Now, let's discuss.

[zabuza]

Well, after readng carefully your ideas I´ll try to find hte optimal list. Now some considerations:

The creatures white has usually fills several roles because usually they are utilities creatures so with one of them you are obtaining several benefits at the same time.
i.e.
Anti-combo Cards:
Ethersworm Canonist
Aven Mindcensor
Jotun Grunt

Utilities
Mother of Runes
Knight of the White Orchid
Samurai of the Pale Curtain
Stoneforge Mystic

Beaters
Serra Avenger
Kazandu BladeMaster
Silver Knight

Some of them can be matched in both the three groups so this is flexibility.

With the printing of Basilisk collar and stoneforge I think evasive creatures that only beats are not optimal for this deck. If i have a knight equiped with collar, is going my opponent to block loosing his creature without having any benefit (because the First strike of mine)?? I don´t think so, so virtually our creatures are evasive. beside of this, collar gives us lifes so we are gaining tempo too. Well In this scenario kazandu is the chief because it can attack and block at the same time. When he has the collar he has something like evasion while prevent opponent attacks.

Because of that i think is important to use creatures with FS on it.

Another consideration is that white can benefit from lot of creatures that has when x comes into play does something. I think we must abuse from this situation as far as we can. Because of that I was thinking on using cards like kor skyfisher or so. In the deck you suggested there were only 7 creatures of that kind but in mine there were more so we are gaining card advantage on it. Because of white lacks from any kind of card advantage I was trying to obtain the closest aproximation of it. Lot of these creatures are 2x1 like kor, kotwo, and so.

White offers protection built in (silver knight) or in form of mother of runes, brave the elements and so, so our creatures are usually hard to kill.

Using cards like armageddon, cataclysm, elspeth, (which usually are broken) slows us down so I don´t know it this worth it.

Beside of that, legacy is an aggro format where naya, ********, zoo,..... and so are everywhere so having wapons against aggro sounds smart.

In summary, I think we must exploit the benefits of having something to gain all the combat phases to us (collar + any FS).

Aven Mindcensor is a card I would like to play because hoses combo (DH can´t search, ANT can´t search) and lot of random search effects like fetches and so. I would like to play it but CC3 seems high and his body is small 2/1 dies with everything. Using remote farm help ues to cast it on second turn but not sure about it.

Tomorrow I´ll post my new list but it´s closest similar like the one I posted before. I´ll explain why i´ve made the choices I´ve made in order all of us can understand and decide if they are right or wrong.

[zabuza]

Hi everybody
As I said yesterday I´m going to try explaining what cards I´m Considered, Why I´ve chosed ones among others and lot of other things.
First of all a list and an explanation of the cards:

Mother of runes: Y: This little guy protects all our creatures from targeted removal which is very important because white has not lot of card advantage. Beside of that this girl can chump-block forever.
Children of Korlis : This guys give us some lifes but this effect doesn´t seem very impressive at all.
Hada Freeblade: Y: If you play kazandu (which is a house here) you must play its brothers so easily kazandu will be the bigger creature on the deck. Nice tricks with skyfisher and so.
Isamaru Hound of Konda: Only if you play more than 2 karakas and still this dog is small nowdays.
Martyr of Sands: Gaining some lifes and removing bridges from below sounds nasty but this little girl perhaps is not good enough to be played.
Weathered Wayfarer: Good if you use special lands but even then you need the opponent to have more lands than you so …
Brave the elements: A SDB card to help against color menaces.
Burrengton Forgetender: A sideboard card. Only playable if red decks were everywhere.
Figure Of Destiny: A 1CC great creature. Perhaps could be included in the deck, but slots are reduced so it´s out at the moment because it can protect itself and needs lot of mana to grow while we want mana to equip collars and jittes.
Aether vial: Y A must. This artifact defend us against CB and gives speed after the third turn to the deck
Path to exile: Y. This removal is chosen here over STP because KOTWO is in the deck too.
Swords to phlowshares: See above
Basilisk Collar: Y One of the best equipments I´ve seen. With this and jitte you will be the king of the combat phase.
Silver Knight: Y it´s Pro-red, the amount of red decks are being played in legacy (naya, zoo, burn, goblins, goyfslight, Loam, Dragon stompy,sligh,,……and his FS ability makes him rule among any others.
Jotun Grunt: Y: A maindeck graveyard hoser with a big body. Also can recover wasted cards and destroyed equips and have synergy with skyfisher
Stoneforge Mystic: Y The tutor. It searches the two best equipments on history of magic and help us playing them over CB and counter-walls.
Knight of the white orchid: Y This guy gives us tempo and card advantage. It has FS too so with collar it´s a menace to be considered.
True Believer: Anti-Target card. A combo hoser probably for SDB
Ethersworm Canonist: the anti-storm card. I don´t think so it´s needed MD but It could be tested.
Kataki: Anti affinity and lot of artifacts based decks. Probably a sideboard card.
Kazandu Blademaster: Y The beater. It attacks and defends and will grow with the other allies you play.
Samurai of the pale courtain: Graveyard hoser but ONLY POR PERMANENTS that goes to the grave from the battlefield. Marginal use.
Soltari Priest: evasive and Pro-red, but I think evasion is no needed with collar because opponent is not going to block your knights with his goyf when he is going to lose his llurgoyf while your knight remains into play giving you a couple of lifes in the process.
Serra Avenger: evasive and Vigilance girl. Has no other abilities and sometimes is difficult to play her (without vial)
Kor Skyfisher: Y This dude is evasive but the most important thing is that it return other “when comes into play” creatures to your hand so you can obtain more card advantage.
Umezawa´s Jitte: Y The best equipment.
Flickerwisp: Another return creature but its 3cc makes it worse than fisher.
Kitchen Finks: life gaining and a 2x1 creature. It could be played but its CC3 doesn´t convince me.
Mirror Entity: Enabler. Makes monster for mana, but this deck can´t exploit it
Stonecloacker: Another “return” creature that helps against graveyard and has a nice body. Flash is good too.
Aven Mindcensor: the anti-search. This card is a very powerful anti-combo card but its 3cc make me think about it´s utility because to be effective you must play it on turn 1 or 2 and the deck has no any kind of acceleration to make this possible.
Loxodon Warhammer: Not bad equipment, but….
Sword of light and Shadow: See above
Mangara of Corondor: I though on playing this guy as a control measure to artifacts and echantments. Combined with karakas can be exploited and give us some flexibility against certain permanents.
Karakas: Y This land has two major utilities. First of all can return Iona, marit lages and lot of enormous stuff to it´s owner hand. Beside of that provide a way to abuse from legends like isamaru and mangara. Also it produces W so 2-3 can be played in the deck very easy.
Remote Farm: to try to speed up the deck. It has synergy with Kotwo. Still testing
Retribution of the week : One sided WOG that clean the table from progenitus, any big creatures while our critters kill him.


Those are the cards I´ve considered when trying to develop the deck.

The configuration I´m running now is:

4 x Aether vial
4 x Mother of runes
4 x Hada Freeblade
4 x Path to exile
4 x Silver Knight
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
4 x Knight of the white orchid
4 x Kazandu Blademaster
4 x Kor Skyfisher
2 x Umezawa´s Jitte
2 x Basilisk Collar
3 x Jotun Grunt

4 x Remote Farm
3 x Karakas
1 x Mistveil Plains
1 x Emeria the sky ruin
2 x Flagstones of trokair
8 x Plains

SDB
4 x Retribution of the meek
3 x Serenity
2 x Mangara of Corondor
3 x True believer
3 x Ethersworm Canonist

The deck has lot of small tricks that provides card advantage while make us stay on the game ina good position. Some of them are:

Collar + Any firs strike dude
Farm + KOTWO (removing his last counter to play kotwo)
Skyfisher + Kotwo/Mangara(with vial)/Mystic/Hada/Grunt(which is going to die)
Mystic + vial (un-countereable dudes and equipment)
Vial + Believer /canonist (instant anti combo)
Grunt + Farm/equipment(recover it from the grave) + Mystic (replay the destroyed equipment)

Because all this things I think the deck can be competitive. What do you think about?