Responding to a 2nd Legendary permanent entering the battlefield?

[AcidFiend]

I have a Urbog, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play. I play a 2nd Urborg (want to fill my graveyard for Tombstalker).

My opponent wants to cast Price of Progress while they are both in play. Can he do this and hit me for 4 damage? Is this a question of players responding to state-based checks?

Bonus question: Engineered Plague is in play, someone plays a one-toughness Goblin with a ETB effect. Does its ability trigger before dying?

[chokin]

I'm no rules expert, but I don't think it's possible to respond to the land coming in play. Someone will have to get into specifics as to why, but that's the short answer I believe.

Bonus: I think it does. I remember a scenario with Harmonic Sliver being able to nuke an EP. You just can't use sacrifice effects like with Mogg Fanatic.

If any of this is wrong, someone enlighten me.

[Anusien]

Playing lands does not use the stack. You cannot respond to the land being played, the land entering the battlefield, or the Legendary Rule. If a player puts a land into play, no player gets priority until after it has entered the battlefield, state-based actions have happened, and triggered abilities have gone on the stack.

And yes, Goblin Matron's ability will still trigger under and Engineered Plague.

[AcidFiend]

Thanks Anusien - I thought it was an incorrect play (PoP) but couldn't explain to him why.

[Offler]

204.4d Any permanent with the supertype “legendary” is subject to the state-based action for legendary permanents, also called the “legend rule” (see rule 704.5k).

704.5k If two or more legendary permanents with the same name are on the battlefield, all are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the “legend rule.” If only one of those permanents is legendary, this rule doesn’t apply.

Generally there is nothing to react, while you are playing land... If you have two legendary creatures there is time to react when the second one is being played.

[Malchar]

To clarify, the legend rule happens as a state based action. It happens before players get priority, and it cannot be responded to. You can't even tap two Urborgs for mana before they succumb to the legend rule.

[Kuma]

What about legends with ETB effects like Vendilion Clique? If there's one in play and I play another, do I get to use mine's ETB trigger?

[yggdrasil]

What about legends with ETB effects like Vendilion Clique? If there's one in play and I play another, do I get to use mine's ETB trigger?
Yes. The 2nd Clique EtB, its Triggered Ability triggers. Now State Based Actions are checked, putting the 2 creatures in their owners graveyard. Now SBAs are checked again, do nothing this time, so we can proceed to putting the Triggered Ability on the stack. After this, the active player gets priority.

[Shawn]

Yes, it's still put into play.They die, then the ability resolves.

Edit - Beat me to it.

[Tychoides]

I have a follow-up question related to the bonus question. If I have Engineered Plague naming Goblins, and my opponent has Goblin King out and then plays a 1/1 Goblin, will that Goblin live or die? I'm thinking that this might relate to another open thread about Thopter Foundry/Master of Eternium/Sword of the Meek too.

[Malchar]

The goblins will live because they get -1/-1 and +1/+1 which is a net of +0/+0. All applicable effects should be applied before you worry about the consequences. First, figure out what the new power/toughness should be. Second, decide whether or not the creature needs to be put into the graveyard on account of having less than 1 toughness.

[Tychoides]

Makes sense. Thanks! :)