Looking at Extra Cards / Drawing Extra Cards

[Julian23]

Happened yesterday at a GP Trial. Didn't matter because I already had byes and still made top8 were I conceded to a friend who still needed byes. Still I'm curious if the following situation was handled correctly because there was a lot of disagreement with the judge's ruling among all the players watching the game:

I play Brainstorm.
Draw the first card. Draw the second card, all blanks by now. At this point I'm holding my handcards in my left hand while I draw with my right hand. I lift the 3rd card from my deck and look at it. Then I realize (while it's still about 5 cm above my deck) that I'm holding 2 cards instead of one in this hand. After thinking about it for about 5 seconds I call a judge while asking the spectators to take note that there's still half a meter between my right hand and my left hand by now.

Judge walks up on me, listens to the situation. Ruling is drawing extra cards, game loss. In the end it was irrelevant but I felt kinda bad because last tournament another player drew for the turn, realising that he lifted 2 cards instead of one and immedeatly called for (the same!) judge who in this case ruled "looking at extra cards-warning".

Any judges who can help me out on this? Just curious if this was handled correctly. Another player who's a GP regular later noted that he knew about a rule/guideline that said it mattered if the extra cards touched the hand of cards at any time.

[yggdrasil]

Usual disclaimer: the following is only valid in the very situation as described in the opening post. However similar other situations may seem, details may vary enough to change the outcome significantly.

That's Looking @ Extra Cards. It'd only be Drawing Extra Cards had the cards touched the other ones in your hand. Did you appeal this to the Head Judge? If he was the HJ, did you mention his own ruling from the other tournament?

[Forbiddian]

It probably should have been looking at extra cards -- warning. Probably the situation wasn't explained clearly to the judge.

[cdr]

3.5. Game Play Error — Looking at Extra Cards
Definition
Players are considered to have looked at a card when they have been able to observe the face of a hidden card, or when a card is moved any significant amount from a deck, but before it touches the other cards in their hand. This includes errors of dexterity or catching a play error before the card is placed into his or her hand. Once a card has been placed into his or her hand or if a player takes a game action after removing the card from the library, the offense is no longer Looking at Extra Cards.

If the situation was as you described, it would have been Looking. You didn't say anything about the judge's reasoning though.

[Julian23]

There wasn't much reasoning. He listened to me. My opponent didn't have anything to contribute because he didn't even recognize it. After listening to me he said "Ok, that's drawing extra cards thus you are awarded a game loss.". I then reminded him of his ruling in the previous tournament but he said that was different because some judge guidelines explicitly state that resolving Brainstorm in the wrong way is drawing extra cards. He offered me to talk about it in detail afterwards but I was just too much on tilt (although you couldn't tell by my behavior) to engage in further discussion on this.

[citanul]

but he said that was different because some judge guidelines explicitly state that resolving Brainstorm in the wrong way is drawing extra cards.


I assume he means the following:
Drawing a card when you are not supposed to or drawing to many cards is drawing extra cards.

But if you play a spell that you shouldn't be able to play, like Evoking Mulldrifter without having blue mana, that causes you to draw cards will be looking at extra cards since the card forces you to draw cards.

[Anusien]

I assume he means the following:
Drawing a card when you are not supposed to or drawing to many cards is drawing extra cards.

But if you play a spell that you shouldn't be able to play, like Evoking Mulldrifter without having blue mana, that causes you to draw cards will be looking at extra cards since the card forces you to draw cards.
That's not correct.

The difference between Drawing Extra Cards and Game Rules Violation isn't even relevant here. If a spell or ability tells you to draw X cards, and you draw more than that. Game Rules Violation is when you draw and aren't supposed to for whatever reason (a spell was played illegally for example). Just drawing the wrong number of cards is harder to catch and needs a more severe penalty. Had the cards actually hit your hand, it would be Drawing Extra Cards.

That said, even if it were Drawing Extra Cards, the HJ can downgrade.

Judges should be seen as a benefit to the players, helping to ensure the consistent and fair running of a tournament. Players should be encouraged to use judges as needed, and should not be afraid to call a judge if he or she feels one is required. If a player commits an offense, realizes it, and calls a judge over immediately and before he or she could potentially benefit from the offense, the Head Judge has the option to downgrade the penalty without it being considered a deviation, though he or she should still follow any procedure recommended to fix the error. For example, a player offers his deck to his opponent and while cutting his opponent’s deck discovers that a card that belongs in his deck is in a previously exiled game pile. If he calls the judge over immediately, the Head Judge may choose to issue a Warning rather than a Game Loss.

The moral of the story is, if you get a call you think is wrong or unfair, appeal to the Head Judge. If nothing else, they can better explain the situation to you.