Trying to break Landfall

[Rascal]

Hi, legacy mates ;)

I would like to start new legacy community project. Why? Because of couple things.

I think that the "landfall" ability has some potential in our format. With the right cards for sure.
Secondly, I´m almost sure, that Ob Nixilis, is underrated creature. He works nice with so many fetches, ....we have Exploration in our cardpool....and...oh wait.....we have Undiscovered Paradise as well.


I have some rough starting version. I am not good in deckbuilding, but I am good in pick up some interesting ideas and bring it to life.

So, feel free to discuss, post constructive critisism and your opinions.

I really want to build similar kind of Nixilis/Paradise/landfall competitive deck....

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Lands (22):
4x Bayou
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Undiscovered Paradise (this 12 seems "the unexceptionable core" for me)
4x Wasteland ( to slow your opp.)
1x Volrath´s Stronghold (maybe too slow for us, but we don´t have lot of big creatures, so it can be useful)
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Forest
2x Swamp

Acceleration (12):
4x Lotus Cobra
4x Exploration
4x Dark Ritual

Creatures (11 + 4x Cobra):
4x Tarmogoyf ("wall")
4x Ob Nixilis
3x Tombstalker

Control elements (15):
4x Sinkhole
4x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Thoughseize
3x P.Deed

Some thoughts.
1. 22 lands is maybe a little bit low count for Exploration. Mana base maybe needs some rework, upper land count at least.
2. Nixilis is legendary, so playset in decklistcan look weird. But he is to game breaking to not play four.
3. Maybe we can try other route - we can ad some Life from the Loam, Reanimate, upper land count, play some Tranquil Thicket....but I don´t want end as really bad BG Aggro Loam decklist.
4. Is P.Deed really need? What can replace it?

SB is the last point to solve - let´s set up some quite stable form of main deck.

[Forbiddian]

I wonder if there are any other cards that cost 3BB and win the game? Maybe one that doesn't require letting your opponent untap twice?

3BB creature = Timmy Fodder, especially one that really requires you to have 4BB or even 5BB on the table before it's very good. In the same vein are cards like Spirit Monger, which is long-since not-playable.

[Hopo]

I wonder if there are any other cards that cost 3BB and win the game? Maybe one that doesn't require letting your opponent untap twice?


Why should everybody just play storm? It's repulsive that some guys remind us frequently to not to try to create anything new. Nothings better than a stagnant metagame with only 3BB playables being Ad NAuseam. Have fun with your ~10 000 cards pool. These guys already know that the format has been formed and all playable decks have been discovered. You over-simplify the idea of storm combo. It's not about resolving just single spell. Its resolving at least 10 and Tendrils, which requires a full 60 cards of stuff. Not just that 3BB one. Now go and figure why 100 % of the field is not storm combo? Then go and do a search for 3BB spells at The Source and go spam every thread with a singleton Haunting Echoes or whatever. They are obviously dumber than you.

This looks kind of a weird cross-over between the Rock, Eva Green and minor landfall shehanigans. The deck lacks card draw, so I wouldn't mind fitting in Loam and some cycling lands. Exploration in my opinion needs Loam to be broken enough to play in legacy. It also helps with Undiscovered Paradise, but this seems too small of a synergy, as you most likely will not see Paradises in multiples without a draw engine. Also, in order to get anything out of Ob, you need way more protection. 4 Thoughtseize will not be enought to strip opponent from the numerous removal being played.

Basically, I see this deck winning with tarmogoyf/stalker beats more than anything at the moment. I like the idea of playing Ob Nixilis and Cobra, since they are powerful cards. The right shell just needs to be found. I'm quite confident that it involves loam and Exploration, though. Exploration, Crucible of Worlds and a sacrifice outlet for lands is also tingling my mind.

[Sevryn]

Trying to be constructive:

You are playing a threat light deck with minimal ways to protect your threats. Furthermore, your main threat (Ob Nix) costs a lot of mana. This is all well and good, except Legacy is a creature heavy format and every deck has ways to either deal with creatures (removal) or ignore creatures (combo). A deck like this runs the risk of being 'all in' and then being destroyed by a single Swords to Plowshares. And no, you will not be able to Thoughtseize all of the opponent's removal away every game.

You might need to add blue to the deck. This would allow you to run counterspells to protect your threats, as well as run cards like Brainstorm and Ponder that will allow you to find your threats more consistently.

[Maveric78f]

Continue braking and hopefully you'll stop.

Sorry, it was stronger than me

[Pastorofmuppets]

Continue braking and hopefully you'll stop.

Sorry, it was stronger than me

my sentiments exactly. Landfall creatures are too slow for Legacy. They don't make an impact the turn they hit and when you don't have a land they're all terribly inefficient. Bloodghast is good, but that's because he's a recursion dude that doesn't require a massive (Ichorid) or tiny (Nether Spirit) graveyard.

[Poron]

this is the right deck to abuse of Crop Rotation.

instant tech land tutor and combo with landfallers

[jrsthethird]

Crop Rotation for a singleton Bojuka Bog for instant speed dredge hate.

[pi4meterftw]

Continue braking and hopefully you'll stop.

Sorry, it was stronger than me

Lol at this entire thread, but maverick pointed out the only thing I want to (and apparently nobody else noticed or even understands now that he pointed it out.)

Actually: one small other thing:

Innovation is great, but it's clear that ob nixilis isn't going to be the next innovation. It looks like you're only arguing that it should be played because you want to, not because it's actually good.

[Media314r8]

If you insist on building a deck around big black beaters which ant lots of land, why not try a Bg korlash control deck? Multiples of Korlash actually DO something, and he comes down for 2BB rather than 3BB. (effectively 4BB) Big mana accel other than viper seems better, like veteran explorer + cabal therapy, search for tomorrow, cabal coffers. (not optimal, but is not suseptable to removal and puts lands into play, rather than just make mana with landfall like snake.)

EDIT: grim discovery with korlash and fetches is actually pretty hot. Perhaps with gatekeeper of maliker, smallpox, crucible, bloodghast, braids, ect.

[Kangaxx]

Now that Lightning Bolt is starting to see more and more play in the format, Tempo Thresh, Goyf Sligh, Zoo, etc., I would never play a card that reads "Tap 5 lands, chose a 1 mana red instant from your opponent's hand and discard it".

[Forbiddian]

Lol at this entire thread, but maverick pointed out the only thing I want to (and apparently nobody else noticed or even understands now that he pointed it out.)

Actually: one small other thing:

Innovation is great, but it's clear that ob nixilis isn't going to be the next innovation. It looks like you're only arguing that it should be played because you want to, not because it's actually good.

My joke was going to be, "I think you can stop braking now" but I couldn't find a way to work it into my first post without just seeming excessively cruel.