[Podcast] Legacy Hardware

[JeroenC]

Probably the first Legacy-only podcast. Mostly for starters at the moment, but interesting to listen to and definitely worth supporting. They do mention the source quite a lot, too.

http://www.mtgcast.com/?p=3830

[rockout]

They tend to talk over each other quite a bit but I still enjoyed it.

[Zlatzman]

Only listened to the first half or so. Felt it got a bit too unfocused near the middle, just babbling about random decks they don't really know anything about.

[FredMaster]

Felt it got a bit too unfocused near the middle, just babbling about random decks they don't really know anything about.
I listened to the entire thing and have to agree. Those guys should focus a little more on what is common knowledge and follow like a red line throughout the podcast. Since this was the first time for them to create something like that we can't be too cruel in our criticism.
(Partly) concentrating on where they wanted to go with it is not that easy when 3 guys with a lot of heart for the game talk about it for more than an hour.

Apart from that I liked their enthusiasm about Legacy and the energy they put into that podcast. Keep supporting the best format in the world! :)

[anonymos]

Helm combo =/= leyline + helm of obedience

It's a decent listen so long as you remember that they openly admit they aren't the best ever in legacy.

[Getsickanddie]

Apart from that I liked their enthusiasm about Legacy and the energy they put into that podcast. Keep supporting the best format in the world! :)

I listened to the whole episode at work today, and this pretty accurately sums up my feelings. While I would like some higher level content, I think this was a solid first episode.

[MMogg]

After only five minutes I can't help pausing it. It sounds like three kids sitting around saying, "dude, I'm bored, let's make a podcast about, like, Legacy and stuff." First first first impression is very amateurish.

I'll keep listening off and on until I can get through it, but not really a fan of this kind of podcast. I hope they are reading this and that for next time they will put together something more streamlined and ordered. For example, guys, why not run down at the beginning of the show the topics you'll cover? That would at least give a sense of structure and that you have a plan.

As others said though, it's their first, so naturally not perfect, but I also think it's important to make the right first impression. Constructive criticism can only help their show improve and get them more listeners. :smile:

[theteeg]

Hi guys, thanks for all the constructive criticism :). Please be patient with us until we get some higher level content, we wanna get everybody up to speed first. But anything to help us get better at supporting this format is all we ask. Thanks again for the feedback.
-Jason

[Forbiddian]

I was pretty disappointed with the quality of the analysis. It seemed like nobody had any idea about competitive Legacy.

They repeatedly said stuff like, "Keep in mind, we're not the best Legacy players." But if you're not an expert in some capacity, why are you bringing out a podcast? Writing articles you can make up for a lack of experience and knowledge by doing adequate research, but when you're talking for an hour without any direction and without really knowing what you're talking about, it shows.


I think for next week, you should have a list of topics that you can discuss, and then maybe you can do background research instead of floundering around. For instance, you talk about Annul very extensively, but when would Annul EVER be better than Spell Pierce (which doesn't see a whole lot of play as-is)?

I enjoyed how you really brought out how much fun Legacy is to play. I think you can transfer that energy to a more structured format with success. You can still go a bit off-script, but at least people could be up-to-date and have a bit of time to think on the topics before talking.

[Getsickanddie]

Just an idea, but one talking point I'd like to hear you guys discuss in a future episode is the ever increasing prices of Legacy staples and how it's impacting the growth/popularity of the format. While this topic has been extensively debated here on the Source, I'd be interested to hear the discussion from the perspective of players who are somewhat newer to the format, and play in an environment where people don't necessarily have all the staples required to play sanctioned Legacy.

[MMogg]

I was pretty disappointed with the quality of the analysis. It seemed like nobody had any idea about competitive Legacy.

They repeatedly said stuff like, "Keep in mind, we're not the best Legacy players." But if you're not an expert in some capacity, why are you bringing out a podcast? Writing articles you can make up for a lack of experience and knowledge by doing adequate research, but when you're talking for an hour without any direction and without really knowing what you're talking about, it shows.


I think for next week, you should have a list of topics that you can discuss, and then maybe you can do background research instead of floundering around. For instance, you talk about Annul very extensively, but when would Annul EVER be better than Spell Pierce (which doesn't see a whole lot of play as-is)?

I enjoyed how you really brought out how much fun Legacy is to play. I think you can transfer that energy to a more structured format with success. You can still go a bit off-script, but at least people could be up-to-date and have a bit of time to think on the topics before talking.

OMG, I can't believe I agree with Forbiddian on something. Anyway, as examples of what he is talking about:


Your lack of knowledge comes across when you say things like, "Is Manabond a socery?" or "Grim Lavamancer is two cards, not two red cards as I thought." (paraphrasing, of course)
Your lack of knowledge spills over into some contradicitons like talking about how dominate blue is in one part of the podcast, but then not mentioning how Loam Lion gets around Hydro/BEBlasts in your analysis of Kird Ape vs. Loam Lion in Zoo.


But, I'm guessing that we are not the target audience since you explain all the cards/decks and what they do, and I think your average Sourcer knows most of this. That said, I agree with Getsickanddie in that what this podcast shows me is what newer and average people perceive Legacy to be, so in that way it was interesting.

Finally, ugh . . . using Starcitygames as a price guide. Way to scare new players away and pass on misinformation. At least let the listeners know that's the high high high end of the spectrum.

[lkibe1]

Wow, thanks guys for being very receptive of us. I think we can use a lot of this feedback and grow it into a better show for what the players of the format want.
As for topics, would focusing on one topic a show or doing a "This Week in Legacy" kind of thing be better? We can also digest the info more, or expand on it. What do you guys think would be better?

[MMogg]

Wow, thanks guys for being very receptive of us. I think we can use a lot of this feedback and grow it into a better show for what the players of the format want.
As for topics, would focusing on one topic a show or doing a "This Week in Legacy" kind of thing be better? We can also digest the info more, or expand on it. What do you guys think would be better?

Not to keep replying to this thread, but I think you could definitely do a segmented show, where every week you have time to go over "this week in legacy" which could be anything from a big new price shift, like the Scroll Rack mini-frenzy, to a big new deck type, like the Show and Tell/Dream Halls deck explosion, that was also accompanied by a price frenzy. That segment you could do for 20-30 min. I imagine.

You could also do some other segments, either introductions to decks or event preparation or metagames, etc. I think you guys really need to try to understand who your target audience is. I know it's a podcast and so people are not always at their comps when they're listening, but you could have an accompanying blog or something with the cards/decks you mention so that you don't have to explain each card to the listeners. I mean, they should know Chalice of the Void and if they don't, making it available online should be good enough. Let's face it, new players to Legacy are usually not new players to Magic and they know how to look up cards they don't know online. I think you're underestimating your audience a bit by explaining the functions of nearly every card.

Anyway, I'll shut up now. Good luck, and I'm sure others here will have better suggestions than I do. :smile:

[JeroenC]

To me, it seems like one of the best things you can do with a podcast is invite "famous" Legacy players(like the Adepts) for an episode, so they can a) give an interview on some subjects and b) chime in on your other discussions.

Edit: also, you shouldn't focus entirely on the "experienced" players yet. You're on mtgcast, which is a great way to get random listeners for any podcast. So it would probably be great if the first ten minutes or something of every show were something anything could understand (like a Deck Tech, or talking about the next big thing or whatever) so you could also interest people that don't know as much of Legacy as we do. Later in the show (we'll sit through the boring parts, don't worry ;) ) you can give the more experienced players some attention and talk about more in-depth things.

By the way, I loved how you mentioned the altered/pimp card topic.

[JeroenC]

New episode is up. Seems like they took a lot of our advice. Sound quality also improved and I really did like it.
Also generally enjoy offtopic rants at the end of podcasts(which is a nice thing to take from MNM). Keep up the good work and keep playing Legacy to make this into a must-listen for all us Legacy crazies out there.

[Getsickanddie]

The new format was a definite improvement. Anyone that didn't enjoy the first episode because it was kind of disjointed should give episode two a shot.

[MMogg]

Certainly better guys, not bad. A couple of points though, it seemed the show still lacks structure and focus. It's certainly better than last time, and hopefully my points that follow will help for next time as well.


For the predictions for Madrid/Richmond, it would have been much better if you worked out, for example, your predicted Top 8s. Yeah they'd probably be wrong, but at least that would have given some structure and conclusiveness instead of an open ended sprawling talk about all different deck types. It seemed the Madrid/Richmond analyses overlapped too much.
I turned off when you said you wanted to talk about Extended. If you want to talk about other formats, at least try to put it in the context of Legacy. E.g., you can have a section called "Trend spotting" where you look at Standard and/or Extended and analyze what may or may not port over into Legacy or what Legacy players maybe ought to look into.
The pre-established debate positions didn't work very well. Instead, you could have assigned each person a position to kind of state their cases, and then had a normal discussion about what you really feel. You can discuss all angles without needing to go into character, which came across as really contrived.


Hope that helps. Keep up the good work fellas. :smile:

[Forbiddian]

The first one seemed like a group of guys talking after an FNM, this one seems like a real podcast. Nice job guys!

I liked episode 2 a lot. It kept the energy/humor from the first one, but this one was much better researched and with more interesting topics, I think. I wish I had Jason's voice, haha.


I like the idea of having a guest speaker, depending on who you get, obviously. I think almost every podcast does that, and usually works pretty well. I'd wait a few weeks maybe for us to get used to your personalities.


BTW, some guy yelled at me: It's pronounced: "gee-tay"

And then it's pronounced "myrrh-folk"

[JeroenC]

I turned off when you said you wanted to talk about Extended. If you want to talk about other formats, at least try to put it in the context of Legacy. E.g., you can have a section called "Trend spotting" where you look at Standard and/or Extended and analyze what may or may not port over into Legacy or what Legacy players maybe ought to look into.

To be fair, they did say they were going to talk offtopic there. Which is something they're completely free to do at the end of their podcast and which is actually (as far as I know from Magic podcasts) the usual thing to have. These aren't Legacy-only players and offtopic bits at the end are a great way to get a better feel for who they are. As long as they keep the non-Legacy at the end for people like you, who want Legacy only, I think they've got a great format.

[MMogg]

To be fair, they did say they were going to talk offtopic there. Which is something they're completely free to do at the end of their podcast and which is actually (as far as I know from Magic podcasts) the usual thing to have. These aren't Legacy-only players and offtopic bits at the end are a great way to get a better feel for who they are. As long as they keep the non-Legacy at the end for people like you, who want Legacy only, I think they've got a great format.

True, but I thought I was being fair. I was giving them critical feedback from a Legacy player's/listener's point of view and I was trying to direct them to a way of keeping on topic, thereby making a more focused and salient show. Sure they are free to start talking about whatever they want, and yes, it's good that they kept it at the end, but I think staying on topic, especially when it's a Legacy themed podcast, is imperative.

Edit: Maybe I just can't take the teacher out of the Legacy player. I have been teaching critical academic writing for nearly 7 years now, so maybe it's seeping into other parts of my life. :laugh:

[Getsickanddie]

Episode 3 is up on iTunes. /pimp

[theteeg]

Let us know what you all thought of this episiode , any feedback or suggestions on future topics would be fantastic.
Thanks all
-Jason

[JeroenC]

I liked it. The post-podcast rant was enjoyable as well, but I didn't even mind it last week so dropping that for me was never an issue.
Also, I got namedropped so I finally know how my name would sound on a podcast.:cool:

I should probably listen to it in short bits again to provide better feedback, but I can definitely say that you're on a good track. Also good that you have some plans for the future and are already planning them out (wanting to do interviews and similar).

[Getsickanddie]

Episode 4 is up. Nice job guys. Just a couple thoughts.

Force didn't kill High Tide. Counterbalance/Top put the nail in that coffin.

I think people don't prepare for Lands because it's not a heavily played deck due in large part to the price of the deck, and availability of Tabernacle. Most of the time it's probably not in a players best interest to dedicate sideboard slots to a match up that they aren't likely to see.

I've also noticed Lands can throw away a lot of games when it's not piloted well; combined with how badly storm wrecks it I still think it's underrated by a lot of players.

Obviously next episode you have the new reprint policy to talk about, but I think in the future you should make a point to head to some larger legacy events "cough cough" (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15478-April-10th-Gigantic-Legacy-Tournament-Jupiter-Games!!-%281-5k%29) and give us some in depth tournament reports.

I'd also like to hear if you guys are working on any decks, and any innovations/tech you've been testing.

[theteeg]

Ok, looks like we are getting called out :). We are currently making plans to be at the next big Vesteal Tournament. Looks like it's time to nut up or shut up. Most likely we'll be thre getsickanddie. And thanks for the feedback.

-Jason
Legacy Hardware

[lkibe1]

Obviously next episode you have the new reprint policy to talk about, but I think in the future you should make a point to head to some larger legacy events "cough cough" (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15478-April-10th-Gigantic-Legacy-Tournament-Jupiter-Games!!-%281-5k%29) and give us some in depth tournament reports.

I'd also like to hear if you guys are working on any decks, and any innovations/tech you've been testing.

I just got the OK for the 10th off from work! I haven't played competative Legacy since December because of work, so be gentle when you guys beat the snot out of me.

As for innovations, maybe I'll play the WBg Painter/Grindstone deck I've been working on for the last half a year. Or I'll just cop out and play a non-innovative Thresh list. Anything's possable! :3

I have some tech for Goblins that may apease, however Goblins is kinda old school now.

[RogueMTG]

Ok, looks like we are getting called out :). We are currently making plans to be at the next big Vesteal Tournament. Looks like it's time to nut up or shut up. Most likely we'll be thre getsickanddie. And thanks for the feedback.

-Jason
Legacy Hardware


Coolio. If you guys scrub out you should try your hands at some coverage! Interviews/Deck Techs with some of the top performers or most interesting/innovative decks would be cool. :D.

[theteeg]

#5 up!

[Rune]

#5 up!

I found some of the points you made to be a bit silly (UR Goblins being good and Goyf just being a win-more card), but overall I think it's a great show! By the way, you should fix the background noise (if possible) - it gets really distracting after some time.

[Getsickanddie]

I just got the OK for the 10th off from work! I haven't played competative Legacy since December because of work, so be gentle when you guys beat the snot out of me.

Sweet. I'm looking forward to meeting you guys.