Boxes of Alliances

[Dan Turner]

Ok I am going to purchase 12 sealed boxes of Alliances from a local person for $150 per box. Is it worth cracking them and selling the few money singles other than FOW. I seem to remember getting between 4 and 5 FOW per box but I may be wrong.

[(nameless one)]

$150 a box sounds pretty awesome, considering that you get an average or 2-3 force of wills in a box.

force of wills go for $50 a pop now.

[Solaran_X]

Force of Will is only an Uncommon, so 4-5 per box in a set that only had (if I remember correctly) 145 cards is pretty average.

[xTrainx]

If the statistics work out, you should make out with ~50$ in profit per box, plus the additional cards.

[Forbiddian]

Who has 12 unopened boxes?

But yeah, crack them, there's more stuff in there other than Force as well that sells for a bit.

[DrJones]

Play limited with them.

[Dan Turner]

He owned a big shop for years and when he closed up everythign went into storage and he just forgot about it. I am looking into trying and make a deal with him to just buy everything else he has. Most of it is from Alliances and back since that is about the time he closed shop 1996 or so.

[Aleksandr]

There's more stuff in there other than Force as well that sells for a bit.

What exactly?

[Dan Turner]

1 Force of Will 29.98 (0.67%) 154 volume
2 Lake of the Dead 3.88 (-3.72%) 33
3 Kjeldoran Outpost 3.32 (-1.19%) 26
4 Thawing Glaciers 3.20 (-0.62%) 23
5 Elvish Spirit Guide 3.12 (-0.64%) 42
6 Helm of Obedience 2.29 (0.00%) 19
7 Shield Sphere 1.66 (0.00%) 13
8 Lim-Dul's Vault 1.24 (40.91%) 13
9 Kaysa 1.11 (0.00%) 5
10 Exile 1.09 (0.00%) 6

this is per Black lotus project so the prices are not all spot on since it is based on MOTL

[Forbiddian]

What exactly?

ESG and Pyrokinesis both see a lot of play and were from Alliances, and not reprinted.

ESG is up to $5 each on SCGs and it's a common, so you can probably crack 10 per box and net maybe an extra $20 or $30 (you can usually consistently move units at ~50-60% SCGs sale price). Pyrokinesis isn't as hot an item, but it goes for a buck or two.

EDIT: Forgot about a lot of cards, see above post.

Helm of Obedience, LDV, Pyrokinesis, ESG, and Force of Will all see play pretty regularly in at least tier 2 decks, and Thawing Glaciers might potentially see some play with the CIPT-effect artifact.

Lake of the Dead does something no other card does (even though it sucks) and Kjeldoran Outpost could always potentially see play.

[Getsickanddie]

Ok I am going to purchase 12 sealed boxes of Alliances from a local person for $150 per box. Is it worth cracking them and selling the few money singles other than FOW. I seem to remember getting between 4 and 5 FOW per box but I may be wrong.

When you buy all these boxes you should post pictures of them, since you wouldn't want people to think you're full of shit yet again.

[on1y0ne]

when you buy all these boxes you should post pictures of them, since you wouldn't want people to think you're full of shit yet again.
qft

[xTrainx]

When you buy all these boxes you should post pictures of them, since you wouldn't want people to think you're full of shit yet again.

1. Yes.
2. What do you have against him, to stalk him like you did, and then bring it up. Again.

[Getsickanddie]

2. What do you have against him, to stalk him like you did, and then bring it up. Again.

I have nothing against him. I enjoy a lot of his posts, he writes some of the best fiction on the Source.

[IsThisACatInAHat?]

If you want to turn a profit, I strongly suggest you don't crack the boxes. First off, 4-5 FoWs in a box is... wrong. There are 135 uncommons per box and 45 unique uncommons in the set, so math says you'll get 3. Of the 6 boxes of Alliances I've opened in the past couple weeks, most had only 2 (2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4). ESG is the only other money uncommon and most of the other money cards (of which there aren't many and none are really that valuable) are rare. If you manage to sell the singles for full value, you'll probably make a little under $200. By comparison, trollandtoad.com sold 9 boxes of Alliances @$234.99 over the course of ~2-3 days this past week. Most auctions end around $240-245 and all of the Buy It Now listings on ebay have them for $270. If you were to undersell them (say, $260) and post them as Buy It Now auctions, you would make about $240 ($90 in pure profit) per box, which is considerably more than you could get for the singles. The only reason to crack the boxes would be if you wanted to keep some of the Legacy-playable cards and draft the others. Alliances has been hands down the most entertaining set I've ever drafted, so if the cut in profits is worth it to you, I can vouch for that.

[hi-val]

There are some sick weird print runs in Alliances, where a Whirling Catapult (R3) is more common than a Force of Will(U1). I've seen some boxes of AL that don't have a single FOW in them!

The correct way to handle this is to actually draft all of the set : )

[Aggro_zombies]

I'll echo the "Don't open them" crowd. Even with Force pushing $50 each, you're unlikely to make your money back on a box given the print runs and the fact that almost all of the cards in the set sell for less than $0.50 (if you can even find buyers for them). You'd make far more selling the boxes to shmucks who think they can open a bunch of Forces and make a profit than if you opened the boxes with the hope of opening a bunch of Forces so as to make a profit.

[Occam]

There are some sick weird print runs in Alliances, where a Whirling Catapult (R3) is more common than a Force of Will(U1). I've seen some boxes of AL that don't have a single FOW in them!

The correct way to handle this is to actually draft all of the set : )

Alliances only had R2s and R6s for for rares (46 R2s, 3 R6s to give a 110-card sheet, no R1s etc) and the same for uncommons (40 U2s, 5 U6s), with 3 uncommon sheets for each rare sheet. Thus, U2 = R6. FoW is a U2. Assuming all the booster packs contain average expected numbers of FoWs,

45 x 3 = 135 uncommons per box.
Number of FoWs per sheet = 2
Average number of FoWs per box = 135 / 110 * 2 = 2.455
If you manage to get $50 for each FoW, which is practically impossible, that's 2.455 * $50 to give $122.73 from FoWs per box.

You might be able to make some $ from Lake of the dead, Kjeldoran Outpost, Thawing Glaciers, Helm of Obedience and Diminishing Returns for the rares (all are R2) and from uncommons like Pyrokinesis, LDV, ESG, Pillage and Contagion (all are U2). Some of the other cards like Shield Sphere or Balduvian Horde could be sellable too.

You could also draft to have some fun while opening, but older sets weren't really made for limited, so it can get frustrating at times.

[FoulQ]

1. Yes.
2. What do you have against him, to stalk him like you did, and then bring it up. Again.

What do you against Getsickanddie?

[dahcmai]

I opened a ton of Alliances and typically got 2-3 Forces if I did get some. It was rare, but it did happen to not get one at all. Though back then I didn't want to see that card anyway. It was crap back in those days.

Problem with Alliances is Urza's Engine is a R6. I don't remember what the other two were, but they sucked also. That meant you had high odds of opening that crap over and over. I remember a friend of mine packed 12 of the things out of one box. Kind of spoils the box. Force is an U1 and there's actually U6's in that set. Odds aren't great to make money off it. Only if you got a hell of a deal really since there's very few money rares. I wouldn't try at that price you mentioned.

[beastman]

When you buy all these boxes you should post pictures of them, since you wouldn't want people to think you're full of shit yet again.

You are really the worst kind of person.

[Bardo]

While Getsickanddie's comment may be a little distasteful, that thing with the Shelby (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15828-Anyone-Have-Stories-About-Posts-They-Regret-Posting) left a lot of doubt in folks' minds about the truth of Magic Fanatic's claims. In the spirit of intellectual honesty (and you know, not being a lying liar), I see no issue with Getsickanddie's requests for proof (in this thread or others whenever Magic Fanatic makes a rather hard to believe comment, like his 43 Scroll Racks).

[Phoenix Ignition]

Magic Fanatic makes a rather hard to believe comment, like his 43 Scroll Racks).

The funny part is how 43 is a high number (makes people think, "wow! I wish I had that many!") Is 2 digits for easier believability, anything over 50 would be extraordinarily hard to believe, and is coincidentally extremely easy to hit in one hand stroke.

The sad part is when he got all of his cards jacked by a family friend (or said he did), everyone decided to pitch in and give him some cards to remake goblins. The common decency of individuals was played into getting free stuff, and who knows if that was true or not. His bragging of an extensive collection is either a lie or the part of his cards getting stolen was.

I was about to send him about 10 goblins at which point he posted that his parents-in-law bought him a playset of Beta. At that point I didn't feel sorry for him as his collection would have been worth more than mine and why would I send him cards if he already owned more than me. Either the stealing of his collection was a lie or the owning of all the cards is. Either way if it ever comes down to something like helping out a community member like him I'd think twice about it.

This is all verifiable but you'd have to manually search mishmash since the new forums don't search well.

[Jak]

The funny part is how 43 is a high number (makes people think, "wow! I wish I had that many!") Is 2 digits for easier believability, anything over 50 would be extraordinarily hard to believe, and is coincidentally extremely easy to hit in one hand stroke.

The sad part is when he got all of his cards jacked by a family friend (or said he did), everyone decided to pitch in and give him some cards to remake goblins. The common decency of individuals was played into getting free stuff, and who knows if that was true or not. His bragging of an extensive collection is either a lie or the part of his cards getting stolen was.

I was about to send him about 10 goblins at which point he posted that his parents-in-law bought him a playset of Beta. At that point I didn't feel sorry for him as his collection would have been worth more than mine and why would I send him cards if he already owned more than me. Either the stealing of his collection was a lie or the owning of all the cards is. Either way if it ever comes down to something like helping out a community member like him I'd think twice about it.

This is all verifiable but you'd have to manually search mishmash since the new forums don't search well.

I was going to as well. I remember we had people sending pms around to all send him stuff. Then I found out about what he had been given and I literally said, "fuck that".

[Getsickanddie]

This is all verifiable but you'd have to manually search mishmash since the new forums don't search well.

Yep (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12204-Stolen-Cards)



I was about to send him about 10 goblins at which point he posted that his parents-in-law bought him a playset of Beta.

Then there was that store (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12367-Just-thinking&daysprune=-1) his parents helped him set up shortly after. Of course if you still felt bad, don't, just like any good fairy tale he bounced back that next year and was already looking into investing in real estate (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15633-Question-about-buying-rental-propertys-already-occupied&daysprune=-1). Of course you can do that sort of thing when your significant other is a doctor...

[Bardo]

Then there was that store (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12367-Just-thinking&daysprune=-1) his parents helped him set up shortly after. Of course if you still felt bad, don't, just like any good fairy tale he bounced back that next year and was already looking into investing in real estate (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15633-Question-about-buying-rental-propertys-already-occupied&daysprune=-1). Of course you can do that sort of thing when your significant other is a doctor...

Yeah, a POIDH (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pics%20or%20it%20didn't%20happen) proviso is fair for any of Magic Fanatic's unlikely posts.

We're all guilty of stretching the truth from time to time (hopefully not in the public domain where we can be called out) but repetitive lying -- especially on this site -- disgusts me. I hope that isn't the case here.


I was about to send him about 10 goblins at which point he posted that his parents-in-law bought him a playset of Beta. At that point I didn't feel sorry for him as his collection would have been worth more than mine and why would I send him cards if he already owned more than me. Either the stealing of his collection was a lie or the owning of all the cards is. Either way if it ever comes down to something like helping out a community member like him I'd think twice about it.

Pretty much, yeah. I sent him an Exalted Angel, but it came back undeliverable after a couple of weeks. I had this very low-level nagging guilt to follow-up and verify his addy, then that thing with the Shelby blew up and I didn't feel bad about it anymore.

[beastman]

I mean, what does it really matter if he is making it up? If you can't pretend to be cooler online than you are in real life, where do you go?

[Bardo]

I mean, what does it really matter if he is making it up?

Only in that trust and honesty are the foundation for any healthy community. If you can't be honest, what do you have left?

[MMogg]

Only in that trust and honesty are the foundation for any healthy community. If you can't be honest, what do you have left?

The porn industry? Politics? Mainstream media? :wink:

This thread has been a serious train wreck. I approve, especially when the wounds are self-inflicted. :laugh:

[Otter]

Only in that trust and honesty are the foundation for any healthy community. If you can't be honest, what do you have left?

In general, I agree, but I must say that I don't really care that much here. It was an interesting discussion on the expected value of cracking Alliances boxes, regardless of whether or not said boxes actually exist. If the claim was, "I just 15-0'd Madrid with Ninjas," I'd be interested in the truth of the matter, but well, it's not.

[Bardo]

The porn industry? Politics? Mainstream media? :wink:

MTS is none of those things.


It was an interesting discussion on the expected value of cracking Alliances boxes, regardless of whether or not said boxes actually exist.

Actually, I agree with you. If it was a random one-off kind of thing I wouldn't give a shit less. This seems more like a pattern of bullshit. That's why I'm posting about it.

[Nihil Credo]

Only in that trust and honesty are the foundation for any healthy community.
I masturbated on that picture of your cat.

[Some Guy]

that was funny, why you delete

[gravemind123]

I masturbated on that picture of your cat.

Apparently Bardo isn't the only one who thinks his cat is handsome.

[Skeggi]

I masturbated on that picture of your cat.
Dare I say... POIDH?

On a sidenote, if you check out Magic Fanatic's profile, you see his interest is 'creative writing'. Well, I guess that's true :cool:

[beastman]

Dammit Skeggi, everytime I see you post, I think it's J.V. Change your avatar.

[J.V.]

Dammit Skeggi, everytime I see you post, I think it's J.V. Change your avatar.

That's funny cause everytime Skeggi posts now, I think it's J.V. posting...

[klaus]

I kinda dig this thread.
-
Magic Fanatic... what can I say?

[Bardo]

It's telling that whenever he posts these things and gets called out, he goes into radio silence.

Looking at a positive here, the staff are now working on an intellectual honesty policy to curb and sanction wild BS (tourney trash-talking will of course be held harmless). We should have that up in a week or so and an announcement will be made.

[beastman]

Looking at a positive here, the staff are now working on an intellectual honesty policy to curb and sanction wild BS (tourney trash-talking will of course be held harmless).

Please don't deprive us of tournament trash talking. Its the sweetest part of the source.

[Bardo]

Please don't deprive us of tournament trash talking. Its the sweetest part of the source.

I wouldn't even think of it. Don't worry.

[J.V.]

I wouldn't even think of it. Don't worry.

And that is why we love you.

[beastman]

To derail this thread even further, J.V. you better not show your face in richmond this weekend, if you do, Imma beat you so bad, you gonna wish I didn't beat you so bad.

[Michael Keller]

QFT.

It always warms my heart to crush the dreams of one Bryant Cook when it's all on the line.

[J.V.]

To derail this thread even further, J.V. you better not show your face in richmond this weekend, if you do, Imma beat you so bad, you gonna wish I didn't beat you so bad.

As much as I'd love to continue this trashtalk, I will not be in Virginia this weekend, sorry buddy. Also those are some bad roaches... I blame the public schooling system.

[Skeggi]

Dammit Skeggi, everytime I see you post, I think it's J.V. Change your avatar.


That's funny cause everytime Skeggi posts now, I think it's J.V. posting...

I'm not J.V.? *kills self*

[Bardo]

This shit has ran its course. Look for the intellectual honesty policy within the week. Locked.