LEDless ANT

[xTrainx]

Just wondering if this is possible - I'm trying to make something like it because dropping ~100 on LED's is more than just a bit pricey.

Recent changes are in bold.

My list looks something like:

x2 Ad Nauseam
x4 Ponder
x3 Brainstorm

x4 Dark Ritual
x4 Cabal Ritual
x4 Lotus Petal
x4 Chrome Mox

x4 Duress
x2 Silence
x2 Xantid Swarm
x1 Pact of Negation

x4 Sensei's Divining Top
x4 Mystical Tutor
x2 Tendrils of Agony

x4 Gemstone Mine
x4 City of Brass
x4 Verdant Catacombs
x3 Swamp
x1 Watery Grave

[Nidd]

It's possible, but considerably worse because you pretty much make yourself have to stick to Ad Nauseam to win the game as you can't use IT and IGG.

First off, 4 Duress and 4 Pact MB should be enough protection, a 1-of Wipe Away should be enough solutions for the MB.

SDT is too slow. How about Serum Visions instead?
Also: Brainstorm! And Fetches. 6-8 Fetches.
Duals are also necessary for the right mana. 1 Underground Sea, 1 Tropical Island and 1 Tundra are enough, however. Forbidden Orchard is bad, as it makes your life total drop very fast.
Gemstone Mine... I would rather play basics.
4 Ad Nauseam really is too much. I can understand that you want to run 2 ToA, but 4 Ad Nauseam is just too much. 2 should be enough.
When playing no other possible route than Ad nauseam, you should play Angel's Grace. I would say 2 copies are okay.

Also, 17 Lands? Try to reduce them. 16-14 is enough.

[xTrainx]

I like SDT over Serum Visions because, when going for the Tendrils, I can Mystical, switch for my Tendrils. With Serum, it costs an additional mana to grab that card off of Mystical.

Switch Silence for Pact.

I like Gemstone simply because it enables easier Pondering, as well as dropping Xantid.

Trying to get more fetches and at least one dual or two duals - its hard for me to afford these, buying and selling, picking up cards with the excess.

Maybe drop to three AdN, but I really don't like Angel's Grace. I've been testing on MWS and out out ~10 games I fizzled once simply due to mana, but in that game I had no way to get access to white mana anyway.
If I do drop to three AdN, I'd probably add in another top, or more brainstorm.

[Gocho]

Original spanish versions of Ad Nauseam, based in Spanish Inquisition, not in Fetchland Tendrils, works without LED, but LED + IGG works a lot of better vs Aggro. In both cases you need a lot of 0cc artifact mana post Ad Nauseam, so you must play Mox Diamond, that cost almost the same that LED.

Play Pact of Negation too, because without LED you don't need to Discard your hand, so you can play it for protection.

Some examples:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31080
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31075

[xTrainx]

Mox Diamond is also in the realm of expensive. If I could afford Mox's I would just go in for LED's.
Thanks for the advice, but it's just not happening.

[Nidd]

I like SDT over Serum Visions because, when going for the Tendrils, I can Mystical, switch for my Tendrils. With Serum, it costs an additional mana to grab that card off of Mystical.

Switch Silence for Pact.

I like Gemstone simply because it enables easier Pondering, as well as dropping Xantid.

Trying to get more fetches and at least one dual or two duals - its hard for me to afford these, buying and selling, picking up cards with the excess.

Maybe drop to three AdN, but I really don't like Angel's Grace. I've been testing on MWS and out out ~10 games I fizzled once simply due to mana, but in that game I had no way to get access to white mana anyway.
If I do drop to three AdN, I'd probably add in another top, or more brainstorm.
On the other hand, dropping SDT on the board simply does nothing other than generating 1 Storm and enabling you to switch it with your top card of your library.
Serum Vision immediately replaces itself and let's you filter to a slight extent.
Filtering with SDT costs 2, as you have to play it, but it's reusable, Serum Visions costs U.
I can see it boiling down to a matter of playstyle, but I recommend you try it.

Gemstone, however, can't be fetched and can only be activated 3 times. In a version with SDT this looks bad, because playing SDT, then activating it in your upkeep makes GSM have only 1 counter left. A hand containing GSM as your only land and an SDT is very risky.
Also, more Fetches = better SDT.
When you add more Fetches for SDT, Brainstorm also gets exponentially better.

Well, Angel's Grace can pull you out of situations where DDANT or regular ANT would use IGG or DD because the chance of fizzling has become too high. At least 1 in the SB should be considered.

As for the Duals, I feel with you. I bought 2 U. Sea and 1 Tundra + 4 LED für 195€. Looking at it is funny, because I shelled out more cash on these 7 cards than for the rest of the deck. I still have to get 1 more Fetch and 1 Tropical Island, though.

[xTrainx]

Alright, I'll test it. I do see what you're saying about SDT with Mine though. I'll have to think over that one.

[xTrainx]

After MWS testing, I updated the list to what you see above.

Still havn't tested Serum Visions, my apologies.

[chris_acheson]

You might want to PM "Rancorous Fool" and ask about a deck called "Bad Nauseam". It runs zero-cost creatures, culling the weak, cabal therapy, and gamble. No LEDs, though his build does run 3x underground sea and 1x volcanic island, which you could probably replace with other lands. I'm told that it goldfishes faster on average than normal ANT builds, and fizzles less often.

[Nidd]

Don't play Shocklands. Ever. You draw about 3 cards less with Ad Nauseam when it comes into play untapped. When you let it come into play tapped, the tempo loss is too huge.

[Maveric78f]

Just wondering if this is possible - I'm trying to make something like it because dropping ~100 on LED's is more than just a bit pricey.
Since it's the only justification for not playing LED, it should be moved to Cavius's forum.

[Skeggi]

If you cut LEDs you can't use Infernal Tutor. You'll have to resort to Burning Wish at least. But I agree with Maveric78f on this one. ANT is broken because of LED+Infernal Tutor.

[xTrainx]

I've actually thought about the Bad Nauseam deck. The only card that I really don't like is Gamble, because it has the potential to completely nuke the card I was trying to get.