[Rise of the Eldrazi] Set Discussion Thread

[pingveno]

Inquisition of Kozilek
B
Sorcery
Target player reveals their hand, choose a nonland card with converted mana cost 3 or less. That player discards that card.

Seems very playable. Better than Duress? What playable, relevant card does this not hit? Quick look through the DTB threads:
Goblins: Everything but Ringleader and Siege Gang
Merfolk: Everything but Force of Will
ANT: Everything but Tendrils and Ad Nauseum
Bant Survival: Everything but Force of WIll
Zoo: Everything but Fireblast (Bonus, you don't lose 2 life)
Aggro Loam: Everything
Counter Top: Everything but Force of Will
Ichorid: Everything relevant, obviously you don't want to make them discard Ichorid/Dread Return/Dredgers

Thoughts? I think its great, plus uncommon like Thoughtsieze should have been.

[Vacrix]

The question, which cards does Inquisition take is just as important as the question, which deck will play it? Decks using it are often looking to take out key cards like Ad Nausuem or FoW. Therefore, as a protection spell it probably won't see any play. Reanimator and Storm certainly won't play it. I don't think it will see much play elsewhere either.

[Meekrab]

Thoughts? I think its great, plus uncommon like Thoughtsieze should have been.
I think its incrementally better than Duress/Thoughtseize, standard power creep to keep people buying new cards. :)

[Vacrix]

I think its incrementally better than Duress/Thoughtseize, standard power creep to keep people buying new cards. :)
Its not incrementally better. Its good in some situations and bad in others, much like Duress and Thoughtseize. People often play Duress as protection. When you consider its application in Legacy, not being able to hit FoW and Ad Nauseum is extremely significant.

[eq.firemind]

Inquisition of Kozilek is awesome card!
It has 2 downsides:
1) Iit sucks against combo 'cause you can't take AN/IGG with it.
2) It's bad as combo-protector 'cause it can't hit FoW.
But if your meta has close to 0 combos and you don't play Storm/Reanimator, this card is better that Duress 'cause it hits Tarmo/Hierarch/Top/Knight of the Reliqaty/... and it's better that 'Seize 'cause it doesn't suck against Zoo. It's not strictly better, but it will be right choice in certain metas.
Props for designers of this gem!

[Cthuloo]

The question, which cards does Inquisition take is just as important as the question, which deck will play it? Decks using it are often looking to take out key cards like Ad Nausuem or FoW. Therefore, as a protection spell it probably won't see any play. Reanimator and Storm certainly won't play it. I don't think it will see much play elsewhere either.

Pox would play it for sure. The deck only cares to take your early drops, then proceeds to make sure you can't cast the more expensive spells. Really a nice addition to the deck, glad to see it's uncommon, so the price won't skyrocket.

[Valdez]

Inquisition will have an impact to Extended, but I doubt it'll see much play in Legacy.

[Barook]

Inquisition definitely has potential.

Surrakar seems interesting, but the lack of evasion sucks. Could be good in a deck that plays lots of removal and protection.

[xTrainx]

I'm gonna end up running Inquisition in my budget ANT deck - Thoughtseize replacement.

Honestly, I really like this set.

[sigfig8]

Inquisition will have an impact to Extended, but I doubt it'll see much play in Legacy.

I agree with Valdez. Since inquisition doesn't take Force of Will or Ad Nauseam, it may not have a place in legacy. Isn't it getting a bit crowded with Duress, thoughtseize, and hymm as it is? It may hurt reanimator some I suppose, but you wouldn't take much with this card that you couldn't already take with Duress. Inquisition is really only better if you're going to take an artifact or creature with cmc < 4 AND you can't afford to pay 2 life. So what does that leave? Bears (goyf, bob, teeg, canonist) or jitte? Seems weak.

To sum it up in one sentence: most decks don't mind a 2 life hit for better flexibility with discard, except maybe ANT, which wants to take FoW more than anything.

Edit: Sorry, not even artifact so scratch that! Duress just can't hit lands and creatures.

[eq.firemind]

Surrakar is Ophidian on steroids. But we already have Augury Adept and Cold-Eyed Selkie and both barely see play, so I dought the new one will...

[Sims]

Actually Reanimator could see use for running Inquisition, not over thoughtseize, but in the duress slots in board. The largest boon for reanimator is that aisde from force of will and leyline (which will likely be in play already), it hits the relevent hate.

It nabs Crypt, Relic, Faerie Macabre, Daze, Spellpierce, other discard spells, etc..

I'll grab a set for the simple "you never know" factor.

[rufus]

Here's a simple question - what deck doesn't have cards that you'd willingly nab with Inquisition? It's a superb card.

[Nihil Credo]

2 life vs. the ability to take Force of Will first and foremost, and secondarily Ringleader, Natural Order, Ad Nauseam, hmm.

I think combo decks of every kind will stick with Duress first and Thoughtseize second, since (even for ANT) a guaranteed loss of 2 life isn't as bad as the much greater potential loss from running into a FoW. It's strictly better than 'Seize against nonblue decks (and ANT), but blue is combo's biggest problem by far. Though, when packing Mystical Tutor, an X/1 split is probably a good idea.

On the other side, "fair" decks covering all the range from black-splash CounterTop to various Pikula/Rockish lists will probably love this. They don't care that badly about Force of Will, their aggro matchup could use a boost, and Inquisition is actually not that bad against Ad Nauseam, since a good percentage of the time it hangs on or near the top of the library, and some other times taking a mana source can be just as effective.

As an additional thought, an Inquisition is probably almost always the right option over the 4th Thoughtseize if you used to run a full playset, since drawing 3+ Thoughtseizes is usually a miserable experience.

[rleader]

Pox would play it for sure. The deck only cares to take your early drops,

I think Blackmail is better once you have a critical mass of discard; there's the case where someone offers you two lands + their worst card as usual and you take a land and then wasteland + sinkhole next turn.


since drawing 3+ Thoughtseizes is usually a miserable experience.

yup.

[Nihil Credo]

Oh, I just received an oversized Emrakul, the Aeons Torn in my mail (along with textless Inversion and Purge). Cool idea, I need to figure out what to do with it though.

[lolosoon]

The first deck that would hypothetically gain benefits of the release of Inquisition of Kozilek should be TeamAmerica.

ThoughtSeize+SnuffOut are too much pain to cope with Zoo for example. I wonder if that new 1cc discard spell can help TA making a comeback...

[Cthuloo]

I think Blackmail is better once you have a critical mass of discard; there's the case where someone offers you two lands + their worst card as usual and you take a land and then wasteland + sinkhole next turn.


Giving the opponent the possibility to choose is rarely a good idea. Of course there's the case you mentioned, but what if the opponent kept a hand with one land and a brainstorm? Or with many lands but only one relevant threat?
In addition, I don't want to try it in addition to duress/seize, but as my main first turn tageted discard. It may not work as it looks on paper, but I think it deserves some tests.

[Maveric78f]

As a side note, Team America is also one of the decks with the least targets for Inquisition. Snuff Out, Force and Tombstalker. So yeah, Inquisition is definitely a good news for Team America. Even more, because I think that people will soon understand that 2 life is a lot. And FoW is barely a reason for not playing it since you can always remove the blue card and U players are more and more struggling to keep a U count superior to 20. And also, few decks want to discard FoW. The big cards this card can't discard are Tombstalker, Natural Order and the planeswalkers. Ad Nauseam, Tendrils and IGG are rarely in opening hands.

[Vacrix]

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/gigantomancer_en_lr.jpg

The card design is pretty good, but unless it can be cheated into play, I don't think it will see legacy play.

[Aggro_zombies]

That mantis is totally about to kill him.

EDIT: The eyes on the mantis are wrong. The "pupil" in the mantis eye is actually an optical illusion created by the refraction of light in the lenses of the compound eyes; under low light conditions like the picture, the eyes should be mostly dark and with barely noticeable "pupils".

[jrsthethird]

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/gigantomancer_en_lr.jpg

The card design is pretty good, but unless it can be cheated into play, I don't think it will see legacy play.

He's worse than this guy:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=46509&type=card

[Nihil Credo]

Totally a sleeper though. I can absolutely see three or ten years from now a cheap card being printed with a text line going something like "Search your library for a creature card with power 1 or less and put it into play". On a two- or three-mana spell it would be balanced for Standard and a powerful combo for Legacy.

[Vacrix]

Totally a sleeper though. I can absolutely see three or ten years from now a cheap card being printed with a text line going something like "Search your library for a creature card with power 1 or less and put it into play". On a two- or three-mana spell it would be balanced for Standard and a powerful combo for Legacy.
Agreed. Its rather underwhelming right now. That not to say it couldn't be powerful in the future. Nobody played Natural Order until Progenitus got printed.

Here's another one:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104068&d=1270818835

Its cc is low enough to be played in legacy. I don't know where it would be played though.

EDIT:
This was apparently just spoiled, but I have trouble believing its real:

CARDNAME (he didn't remember the name)
instant - common
~ deals 2 damage divided as you choose between any number of creatures or players
rebound

That shit is fucking bomb. No way its a common. It has the potential to be 4 to 1 card advantage against a deck like goblins or elves.

This one is more believable:

forked bolt (dont quote me on the name, infact someone check the orb to see if it fits. i cant right now as im at school.)
instant - common
~ deals 4 damage to target creature

[whienot]

The Doppleganger is another cheap way to play with Dreadnought, though narrow. The fun part would be attacking with 2 Doppleganger's in play and viling in big dread before damage.

[rufus]

Totally a sleeper though. I can absolutely see three or ten years from now a cheap card being printed with a text line going something like "Search your library for a creature card with power 1 or less and put it into play". On a two- or three-mana spell it would be balanced for Standard and a powerful combo for Legacy.

I think they learned part of their lesson with Imperial Recruiter, Reveillark is close, but there are better ways to abuse it.

[rufus]

Here's another one:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104068&d=1270818835

Its cc is low enough to be played in legacy. I don't know where it would be played though.


It looks like it's basically made for synergy with Ally tribal.

[jrsthethird]

I think they learned part of their lesson with Imperial Recruiter, Reveillark is close, but there are better ways to abuse it.

Nothing is wrong with Imperial Recruiter from a power-level standpoint. He is out of color and super-rare. Putting the card directly into play, though, would be a little nuts.

[rufus]

I feel a little silly now, Gigantomancer is slightly abusable with Skill Borrower/Leaf-Crowned Elder+Worldly Tutor/Sylvan Tutor, though you'd need 2 or more other bodies on the field to finish out with it on the same turn.

[Vacrix]

Just spoiled, with a shitty, blurry picture.

Linvala, Guardian of Silence 2WW
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flying
Activated Abilities of creatures your opponents control cannot be activated.
3/4

[kabal]

Totally a sleeper though. I can absolutely see three or ten years from now a cheap card being printed with a text line going something like "Search your library for a creature card with power 1 or less and put it into play". On a two- or three-mana spell it would be balanced for Standard and a powerful combo for Legacy.

There is Wild Pair. While it isn't 3 mana, 2 less mantis man

[Doomsday]

Terrible set for eternal formats so far . The best 4 cards spoiled are without a doubt:

Island
Basic Land - Island
#233/248

Island
Basic Land - Island
#234/248

Island
Basic Land - Island
#235/248

Island
Basic Land - Island
#236/248

[atropos]

This was apparently just spoiled, but I have trouble believing its real:

CARDNAME (he didn't remember the name)
instant - common
~ deals 2 damage divided as you choose between any number of creatures or players
rebound

That shit is fucking bomb. No way its a common. It has the potential to be 4 to 1 card advantage against a deck like goblins or elves.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing as the Fire part of Fire//Ice?

[Barook]

Isn't that pretty much the same thing as the Fire part of Fire//Ice?

It is, except twice. We still have to wait for the real cost though, because at :r:, it would be the best burn spell ever printed.

[Vacrix]

It is, except twice. We still have to wait for the real cost though, because at :r:, it would be the best burn spell ever printed.
I agree completely. Thats why I mentioned I have trouble believing its real. It would be bomb in legacy at 1R too. 2R would be unplayable.

[rufus]

Honestly,
R (instant) 1 damage to target creature or player (rebound)
isn't terrible.

[Aggro_zombies]

Just spoiled, with a shitty, blurry picture.

Linvala, Guardian of Silence 2WW
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flying
Activated Abilities of creatures your opponents control cannot be activated.
3/4
Interesting for a :g::w: Regulator-style EDH deck with Teeg as the general. Stops unfair things from the likes of Azami, for example.

EDIT: That shapeshifter is nuts. There has to be a way to break that.

[ScatmanX]

Linvala, Guardian of Silence seems a good option in WStax. It beats Elves, and isn't bad in other matchups.

[eq.firemind]

Linvala, Guardian of Silence seems a good option in WStax. It beats Elves, and isn't bad in other matchups.
She beats Qasali Pridemage, blocks Nacatls and Apes and survives Bolt!!

I want 3 or 4 for my Angel Stompy deck!

[Atwa]

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/gigantomancer_en_lr.jpg

The card design is pretty good, but unless it can be cheated into play, I don't think it will see legacy play.

I don't know.

In Survival Elves, we play Progenitus, which still takes at least a turn before it can swing. With a few elves on the board you should have more then enough mana, wouldn't you rather Natural Order for this guy and win on the same turn? It even dodges Plague. The only real problem I see is that you can't discard it to Surivival when it's in your hand. But then again, netting 8 mana on turn 3 is very possible in an Elves deck.

Propably not that good of a card, but I think I might actually test it out.

[Cire]

So far the two burn spells are spoiled as 1 red mana each.....lets hope it remains that way, because

R
instant
Deal 4 damage to a creature

and

R
instant
Deal 2 damage divided as you choose among target creatures and/or players
rebound

are the most bat-shit insane things i have seen in a while....

-----------------

Also those looking to abuse the gigantomancer; if your deck can cheat him into play, or accelrate into him it can probably accelrate or cheat Emrakul into play....which is much much better

[Gheizen64]

Lol. I COULD see the first being printed at R (it's comparable to bolt), but the second... just no. At 1R would still be very very good.

[Arsenal]

Sorry guys, it's a Sorcery and there's no rebound.

[Gheizen64]

Seems reasonable now... image posted here: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=11657925&id=201120755306

[Sims]

Photo for those of us who can't get at facebook at work?

[heroicraptor]

It's a sorcery and it doesn't have rebound.

[ScatmanX]

or at school...

edit: img is on Salvation

[Vacrix]

Yup, far worse than the original spoiler. What a shame. :P

[Barook]

Kor Spiritdancer :1::w:
Creature - Kor Wizard (R)
Kor Spiritdancer gets +2/+2 for each Aura attached to it.
Whenever you cast an Aura spell, you may draw a card.
0/2

Looks fun with Rancor and a sac ability. Or Flickering Ward for a cheap, white draw engine.

[Aggro_zombies]

Seems Gatherer of Graces has...

*puts on sunglasses*

...leveled up.

[Vacrix]

Kor Spiritdancer :1::w:
Creature - Kor Wizard (R)
Kor Spiritdancer gets +2/+2 for each Aura attached to it.
Whenever you cast an Aura spell, you may draw a card.
0/2

Looks fun with Rancor and a sac ability. Or Flickering Ward for a cheap, white draw engine.

Dam that actually looks playable.

[xTrainx]

The Spiritdancer looks like it could have application in the right deck.

[Barook]

The main thing I really don't like about the Spiritdancer is that the best way white can offer to protect it (e.g. Mom or said Flickering Ward) is protection. With the most popular removal spell being white, it would also kill your Auras on the target.:mad:

Spiritdancer also combines somewhat well with Empyrial Armor.

Question: If you attach Daybreak Coronet to a creature without any Auras on it (e.g: Academy Researchers, Nomad Mythmaker), would it fall of?

[Nidd]

The main thing I really don't like about the Spiritdancer is that the best way white can offer to protect it (e.g. Mom or said Flickering Ward) is protection. With the most popular removal spell being white, it would also kill your Auras on the target.:mad:

Spiritdancer also combines somewhat well with Empyrial Armor.

Question: If you attach Daybreak Coronet to a creature without any Auras on it (e.g: Academy Researchers, Nomad Mythmaker), would it fall of?

I suppose a creature which is not enchanted is an illegal target for Daybreak Coronet.
Either that, or it falls off the next time state-based effects are checked.

[Locutus]

Question: If you attach Daybreak Coronet to a creature without any Auras on it (e.g: Academy Researchers, Nomad Mythmaker), would it fall of?
It's basically the same as if you tried to attach a Fertile Ground the same way. It just doesn't work, because a creature without any aura on it doesn't fit Daybreak Coronet's enchant keyword, so the aura stays where it is.

[Oiolosse]

Nice enchantress effect! It could replace Encantress'Presence in Enchantress's Deck to convert it into an aggro build. That is how I once played enchantress (casual at the time). Rancor, flickering ward, empyrial armor as my beater Aura's and auratog and Yavimaya Enchantress as my beaters. It worked fairly well I thought, but this sure does give that direction a boost!

[Malchar]

It's funny to read this after seeing the current version of Forked Bolt. I thought you guys were going crazy over nothing. As for Gigantomancer, I thought it was amazing as I was reading it. Unfortunately, the last thing I read was the mana cost. The nice thing about it, thought, is that supposing you sneak it into play, you can dish out a bunch of pumps before they kill the mancer. Also, your other creatures can probably attack if you played them last turn. Even birds of paradise would be potentially lethal, or Ornithropter for that matter.

[blaat]

See Beyond 1u


Sorcery Common
Draw two cards, then shuffle a card from your hand into your library.

now this looks rather nice :)

[jrsthethird]

See Beyond 1u


Sorcery Common
Draw two cards, then shuffle a card from your hand into your library.

now this looks rather nice :)

Lat-Nam's Legacy fixed...finally.

[Infinitium]

Spiritdancer + Auratog + Hatching Plans + Spirit Loop/Rancor = Good Times. Actually Hatching Plans.dec could draw an amazing amount of cards as-was, shudder to think what it might put up now.

[Gheizen64]

The new 2/1 for 1W that gain 4 life as it CitP seems pretty nice too. Cheap and splashable way to hate out burn.

[TheDrunkDwarf]

Phyrexian Dreadnaught + Renegade Doppelganger anybody?

[Nihil Credo]

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1234/attachmentts.jpg (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1174)

This is a ridiculous and totally awesome design. I even think it should have been on one of the mythics.

[majikal]

Lat-Nam's Legacy fixed...finally.
Booo, it's a sorcery. :(

[Nidd]

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1234/attachmentts.jpg (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1174)

This is a ridiculous and totally awesome design. I even think it should have been on one of the mythics.
Must. Break. This. Card... TIMMY!

Seriously, this has to be breakable.

[Meekrab]

See Beyond 1u


Sorcery Common
Draw two cards, then shuffle a card from your hand into your library.

now this looks rather nice :)
Looks far worse than Night's Whisper, and nobody plays that...

[Gheizen64]

The effect it's arguably worse than brainstorm. And brainstorm is U - instant.

I'm trying to think of what kind of deck could abuse the new white enchantress... Ench + Rancor, 4/4 trample and you draw a card as you cast rancor. Is there a decent aura with shroud?

EDIT: nevermind that. What about this ?

Suffer the past XB
Instant
Exile X target cards from a player graveyard. That player lose X life and you gain X life.

Nice graveyard hate. Double as a win condition if you draw it late. It's a bit slow in early, tho', even if the instant speed make this interesting.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Phyrexian Dreadnaught + Renegade Doppelganger anybody?

Just use Shapesharer, it works in different situations at least.

[Nidd]

The effect it's arguably worse than brainstorm. And brainstorm is U - instant.

I'm trying to think of what kind of deck could abuse the new white enchantress... Ench + Rancor, 4/4 trample and you draw a card as you cast rancor. Is there a decent aura with shroud?
Canopy Cover comes to mind.

[Xaul Zan]

is it just me or do all of the level up creatures just seem really bad and slow outside of a limited environment. seems like a simple pyroclasm or firespout could wipe most of them out quite easily, even after investing several levels into them.

[Arsenal]

Canopy Cover comes to mind.

Alexi's Cloak and Diplomatic Immunity are mentionable too.

[Lothian]

Must. Break. This. Card... TIMMY!

Seriously, this has to be breakable.

Enduring renewal + Sphere Shield + Ashnod Altar.

Very elegant way to use infinite mana, 10 + 20 brings all your Eldrazi friends ftw. Since this is casting them, you get the extra turn with Emrakul, so you should win.

Great.. for casual

[Jaynel]

Alexi's Cloak and Diplomatic Immunity are mentionable too.

But they don't allow other Auras to target it.

[HPB_Eggo]

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Unified-Will-214x300.jpg

Actually seems pretty good, although I'm not sure what deck would play it.

[Infinitium]

Conditional counterspell won't see play in eternal formats. Whaddabout Hatching Grounds? 2G Enchantment that puts an Eldrazi token on the battlefield at the beginning of your upkeep. Actually seems kind of decent in a Sun Tower Stax shell (sic) seeing as it stalls against aggro decks, sets up your 4cc play (which is kind of relevant with shaky tomb/city manabases) and feeds Smokestack. Better than words of wilding? In a vaccum I'm inclined to say yes since the draw is more important than getting a (slow) clock, however you miss out on the sylvan library interaction.

[Aggro_zombies]

This is a ridiculous and totally awesome design. I even think it should have been on one of the mythics.
I keep reading this card's name as "Spawnshire," and then I have to read the rest of it in Gollum's voice. This will be very annoying to see at the prerelease.

[Vacrix]

Devastating Summons R
Sorcery
As an additional cost to play Devastating Summons, sacrifice X lands.
Put two X/X red Elemental creature tokens onto the battlefield.

Costing R, this shit is so powerful. Imagine, turn 3, its 2 3/3's for R, at turn 4 its 2 4/4's for R.. Seems like it good be pretty powerful. Especially with that extra mana floating. Its great with Crucible.

[Arsenal]

Devastating Summons R
Sorcery
As an additional cost to play Devastating Summons, sacrifice X lands.
Put two X/X red Elemental creature tokens onto the battlefield.

Costing R, this shit is so powerful. Imagine, turn 3, its 2 3/3's for R, at turn 4 its 2 4/4's for R.. Seems like it good be pretty powerful. Especially with that extra mana floating. Its great with Crucible.

Until your opponent counters it...

[Vacrix]

Yup. That would suck.

That doesn't stop people from playing Belcher. :P

[Arsenal]

Yup. That would suck.

That doesn't stop people from playing Belcher. :P

You're comparing an entire deck to a single card.

Typically, you will be running across decks that pack counter + removal or no counters + lots of removal. If you Summons for even 1 and it gets countered, you've effectively 2-for-1ed yourself. If it resolves, there's a very strong chance your tokens will eat a sweeper (Firespout, Wrath, etc), also resulting in a 2-for-1 situation. See where I'm going with this?

[Vacrix]

No, I was comparing that card to Belcher, the card Goblin Charbelcher not the deck RG Belcher. The card Belcher requires you to pretty much invest your initial 7 to play and activate it. Against a single Fow, Belcher is just as bad as sacrificing all your lands to make some Tokens. Sure against countermagic or sweepers its a huge drawback. Its still a powerful spell at R.

[Barook]

Yup. That would suck.

That doesn't stop people from playing Belcher. :P

Wouldn't it be better in 4X Lands?

[Willoe]

Spawnsire of Ulamog seems decent as a card to sink mana into if you're running an infinite mana combo because it only takes at least 1 slot in the deck (depending on how many you're gonna play of course), so you won't encounter problems like topdecking it turn 3, delaying yourself. The only problem is that you'd be filling your sideboard with Eldrazi's, and that is just sucky-bucky.

Now, if you include just 1 in a Metalworker + Staff of Domination combo deck (even though it's not that good), you'll waste 1 maindeck spot and 1 sideboard spot for Spawnsire of Ulamog and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. With the combo, you simply draw your deck, add at least thirty mana depending on how many Trinispheres, Chalices and other stuff you want to cast, play Spawnsire, grab Emrakul, get the extra turn (yes, you will) and smack for 22 next turn, annihilating 7 permanents.

But as I thought that over when I wrote the post, it came to mind that you could just put in 1 Goblin Cannon and ping for a gazillion. That saves sideboard space and is better since pinging for whatever seems infinitely better than beating down for 22 + annihilating for 7. What a failure.

Then I have no other ideas for the Spawnsire. I am certain we can deem it as being unplayable. That is, until you get an easy way to get to 30 mana and an easy way to fill in some Eldrazis in the sideboard without getting into trouble.

[scrumdogg]

You're comparing an entire deck to a single card.

Typically, you will be running across decks that pack counter + removal or no counters + lots of removal. If you Summons for even 1 and it gets countered, you've effectively 2-for-1ed yourself. If it resolves, there's a very strong chance your tokens will eat a sweeper (Firespout, Wrath, etc), also resulting in a 2-for-1 situation. See where I'm going with this?

I'm more interested in this in a Loam shell where I have the Mox Diamonds & the ability to make my existing guys ridiculous, float mana & then Devastating Dreams afterwards.True, something in that process might get countered, but I doubt the opponent is stopping everything I can do.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104059&stc=1&d=1270799424

Pretty funny in casual.

[Cire]

Birthing the Brood 1R
Sorcery
If you control at least one 0/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token, put 3 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature tokens onto the battlefield. They have "Sacrifice this creature: Add to your mana pool."

Basically moe red mana accel just in a weird form, plus it can chump block for tree turns...

But what i really like about it is:

Hand of Emrakul
Creature - Eldrazi
You may sacrifice four Eldrazi Spawn rather than pay Hand of Emrakul's mana cost.
Annihilator 1
7/ 7

As soon as you play birthing the brood, youll have at least 4 span tokens, so you can play Hand right away....and since Hand doesnt specify tokens you can play that 1 mana changeling, then brood,and lay this out turn 2! Annihilator out that early seems devestating. m sure theres other decent spawn cards aw well...hopefully another 1 mana one wilbe along, but so far the 2 mana spells that put in Spawn, Changelings, accel, This, maybe not of this world to protect it, counters?

[TorpidNinja]

Birthing the Brood 1R
Sorcery
If you control at least one 0/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token, put 3 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature tokens onto the battlefield. They have "Sacrifice this creature: Add to your mana pool."

Emphasis mine. This means a Changeling won't work as a requirement for Spawn tokens.

[rufus]

Basically moe red mana accel just in a weird form, plus it can chump block for tree turns...

You've got to invest in other Eldrazi Spawn producing cards, all of which (so far) are negative net mana, and it's 2-for-1 city. Probably not playable in competitive constructed.

[Arsenal]

No, I was comparing that card to Belcher, the card Goblin Charbelcher not the deck RG Belcher. The card Belcher requires you to pretty much invest your initial 7 to play and activate it. Against a single Fow, Belcher is just as bad as sacrificing all your lands to make some Tokens. Sure against countermagic or sweepers its a huge drawback. Its still a powerful spell at R.

So, you're comparing a card that, if resolved, WINS THE GAME to a card that gives you some vanilla beaters once? Yeah, totally the same thing.

[Vacrix]

So, you're comparing a card that, if resolved, WINS THE GAME to a card that gives you some vanilla beaters once? Yeah, totally the same thing.
What? If it resolves it doesn't win the game. You have to activate it. If that wasn't the case, everybody and his mom would be playing belcher. It occasionally misfires too, especially in 2 land builds. Vanilla beaters? Yea sure, but Goyf is a vanilla beater too. The difference is you dont have to go all in with your land. The point was really comparing the all-in factor. Its a powerful spell when it only costs R to play. It might find a place in the format. Besides there are plenty of ways to take advantage of having land in your graveyard. Loam was already mentioned, KoTR is strong, and Terravore is strong.


I'm more interested in this in a Loam shell where I have the Mox Diamonds & the ability to make my existing guys ridiculous, float mana & then Devastating Dreams afterwards.True, something in that process might get countered, but I doubt the opponent is stopping everything I can do.
Exactly my thoughts.

[Arsenal]

What? If it resolves it doesn't win the game. You have to activate it. If that wasn't the case, everybody and his mom would be playing belcher. It occasionally misfires too, especially in 2 land builds.

Now you're just splitting hairs. A resolved Ad Nauseam technically doesn't win you the game either, nor does a recurring Mindslaver, etc. Don't play stupid with me just because you're comparing an all-in card that will WIN THE GAME to an all-in card that creates tremendous card disadvantage that leaves you vulnerable to counter and/or removal.

[Artowis]

What? If it resolves it doesn't win the game. You have to activate it. If that wasn't the case, everybody and his mom would be playing belcher. It occasionally misfires too, especially in 2 land builds. Vanilla beaters? Yea sure, but Goyf is a vanilla beater too. The difference is you dont have to go all in with your land. The point was really comparing the all-in factor. Its a powerful spell when it only costs R to play. It might find a place in the format. Besides there are plenty of ways to take advantage of having land in your graveyard. Loam was already mentioned, KoTR is strong, and Terravore is strong.


Exactly my thoughts.

The two aren't comparable. Just stop it.

Woo, a card that can make a couple of guys that still die to everything and don't have haste. And all you have to do is Geddon yourself if you want them to be a decent size. Yeah, that's a real game-changer right there.

[Vacrix]

Now you're just splitting hairs. A resolved Ad Nauseam technically doesn't win you the game either, nor does a recurring Mindslaver, etc. Don't play stupid with me just because you're comparing an all-in card that will WIN THE GAME to an all-in card that creates tremendous card disadvantage that leaves you vulnerable to counter and/or removal.
The point is that Belcher invests certain resources to go all in. So does Devastating Summons. After your Belcher gets countered, at best, you might be sitting on a Taiga and an LED. You have to invest a lot to get it down. In this case, Devastating Summons only costs R to play so you have to invest different resources. Given that it only costs R to cast, you free up all the rest of your mana to play a protection spell like Duress/Thoughtseize/Hymn and/or a board sweeper like Devastating Dreams. Thats why its a strong card, not just because it can give you 2 fatty tokens.


The two aren't comparable. Just stop it.

Woo, a card that can make a couple of guys that still die to everything and don't have haste. And all you have to do is Geddon yourself if you want them to be a decent size. Yeah, that's a real game-changer right there.

God dam. My original point was that its a powerful spell because it only costs one red mana, not ZOMG this is the next Belcher. No shit it can get countered. All-in strategies can still work if you play them correctly. You just have to be careful. I compared it to Belcher because Belcher is one card where you go all in with your hand. Maybe a better comparison was Devastating Dreams. Whatever. The fact still remains: you invest a lot of resources to try to win the game. With Belcher its your initial 5-7 cards and with Devastating Summons its your lands. Belcher might win immediately. Tokens take a few turns longer. But if you play it on turn 5 with some relevant other spells, it can be game changing. I hear swinging for 10 each turn ends the game pretty fast.

My point in mentioning it in the first place was to see if it can find a place in legacy. Keep in mind you can cast other shit before you play it. It only costs R to cast, and decks that play Loam can bounce back from losing all their land. I'm not saying run this in Zoo, I'm saying where could it be run. It looks playable in Loam.dec and look at cards that it already plays. Devastating Dreams? Woo, a card that wipes the opponents land and creatures base. And all I have to do is Mind Twist myself. Yeah thats a real game-changer right there.

What are some thought on it from Loam players? Is it worth playing?

[pingveno]

Hmmm, new merfolk lord:
UU
Level up 1
[Level 2-3] : Flying | 3/3
[Level 4+] : Flying, other Merfolk you control get +1/+1. | 4/4.
2/2

So he starts as a 2/2 for 2. Becomes a flying beater for 2 more, then becomes pretty awesome at level 4. I think this guy might be borderline playable but the thing is, what would you take out for him? Merfolk are usually using all of their mana every turn anyways and all of their counters are free, so the sorcery speed bit isn't that much of a bummer. I dunno, I think he might warrant some testing, seems semi-strong.

[xTrainx]

Hmmm, new merfolk lord:
UU
Level up 1
[Level 2-3] : Flying | 3/3
[Level 4+] : Flying, other Merfolk you control get +1/+1. | 4/4.
2/2

So he starts as a 2/2 for 2. Becomes a flying beater for 2 more, then becomes pretty awesome at level 4. I think this guy might be borderline playable but the thing is, what would you take out for him? Merfolk are usually using all of their mana every turn anyways and all of their counters are free, so the sorcery speed bit isn't that much of a bummer. I dunno, I think he might warrant some testing, seems semi-strong.

Once you play him, he does nothing. You have to invest four mana before he does something. Thinking logically, thats four turns into the game, or you're sacrificing swinging with a Mutavault. Lets say you had a LoA instead - you would win in ~2 turns(with enough Merfolk), instead of just having a tool to help you win by that point.

He's not a bad card, but he's too slow.

[burigo]

yeah...people will probably add one or two to their alredy stupid melfolk decks

[Puzzle]

Once you play him, he does nothing. You have to invest four mana before he does something. Thinking logically, thats four turns into the game, or you're sacrificing swinging with a Mutavault. Lets say you had a LoA instead - you would win in ~2 turns(with enough Merfolk), instead of just having a tool to help you win by that point.

He's not a bad card, but he's too slow.
The question is not if he's better than LoA.
The question is if he's better than Sovereign (or Thrasher, but the comparison to Sovereign seems more relevant to assess it).

[FredMaster]

Dude Recall~
u
Sorcery Common
As an additional cost to cast Dude Recall, tap four untapped creatures you control.
Draw three cards.

Here we go. The oh-so-desperately-awaited card. First of all it has a different drawback than anything I expected.
I'm very thankful that it is a common because in case it will be broken in Legacy, it won't be very expensive. The card will surely Rock T2 with all the Eldrazi Spawn floating around. Also: Sorcery, is a bummer ofc.

[TorpidNinja]

Dude Recall~
u
Sorcery Common
As an additional cost to cast Dude Recall, tap four untapped creatures you control.
Draw three cards.

Here we go. The oh-so-desperately-awaited card. First of all it has a different drawback than anything I expected.
I'm very thankful that it is a common because in case it will be broken in Legacy, it won't be very expensive. The card will surely Rock T2 with all the Eldrazi Spawn floating around. Also: Sorcery, is a bummer ofc.

In what situation would this ever find a place in Legacy? If you have that many creatures on the ground and you have nothing better to do than make them impotent during a main-phase then something is very, very wrong.

[FredMaster]

Ever heard of a little thing called "Combo"?

[rufus]

Here we go. The oh-so-desperately-awaited card. First of all it has a different drawback than anything I expected.
I'm very thankful that it is a common because in case it will be broken in Legacy, it won't be very expensive. The card will surely Rock T2 with all the Eldrazi Spawn floating around. Also: Sorcery, is a bummer ofc.

That drawback is pretty rough. I think this is a more sublte 'walls matter' card. I really can't see a legacy deck with 4 bodies on the table willing to tap them for card draw.

[Vacrix]

Kobold.dec is going to have fun with that. That would actually be the perfect card for something I was trying to build a while back. Sweet. Its not going to work in Solidarity but hell it looks sexy in Kobolds!

[TorpidNinja]

Ever heard of a little thing called "Combo"?

A combo deck which prefers to take its time putting four creatures on the board in order to get its card drawing engine online? Creatures which would not be better served generating mana or creating some other kind of advantage in their own right?

No.

However, I'd love to hear about one. What do you have in mind?

Ninja Edit: Wait, what? Kobolds is competitive now?

[rufus]

Kobold.dec is going to have fun with that. That would actually be the perfect card for something I was trying to build a while back. Sweet. Its not going to work in Solidarity but hell it looks sexy in Kobolds!

I was thinking it could work in some kind of affinity where you're liable to be fielding a bunch of critters that might not be the best to swing with at times, but 4 bodies is a pretty tall order in legacy, and it's a dead topdeck otherwise, unlike Thoughtcast, so it's a win-more concern.

[Vacrix]

Kobolds Glimpse:
Mana:
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Diamond

Creatures:
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Ornithopter
2 Tinderwall
1 Goblin Bushwhacker

Spells:
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Mystical Tutor
3 Scapegoat
2 Ponder
1 Rites of Initiation
1 Beastmaster Ascension

I played this list for a while on MWS for lolz. Its really bad as you can see, but it takes advantage of some sick interactions, like Scapegoat. I used to play Thoughtcast but I don't run enough Artifact creatures to do that consistently.

Anyway, I think it actually does look good in some sort of affinity deck.

[Infinitium]

The only deck I can envision playing dude recall at the moment is probably Opposition-Elves, and that deck is already literally swimming in tribal card advantage engines. Won't see play unless SI Breaks it somehow, which is a tall (men) order indeed.

[Vacrix]

I'd like to see that actually. SI couldn't run this though, at least the traditional lists. The reason the Kobold list looks more attractive is because you can bounce all your creatures after you tap them to draw more card via Glimpse of Nature, and enable you to play another ~Dude Recall. Otherwise you can only play one so drawing multiples wouldn't be good.

[Vacrix]

How does Awakening Zone look like in some sort of Stax build? It combos with Contamination, like Bitterblossum but without the life loss. It provides chumpers too, enables Stack @ 1 lock, and can help you ramp into bigger spells if you need the mana. It does cost 3 but 2G can be played as early as turn 1 with Stax's resources.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

This set sure has a lot of bad cards in it.

[Aggro_zombies]

How does Awakening Zone look like in some sort of Stax build? It combos with Contamination, like Bitterblossum but without the life loss. It provides chumpers too, enables Stack @ 1 lock, and can help you ramp into bigger spells if you need the mana. It does cost 3 but 2G can be played as early as turn 1 with Stax's resources.
Saying, "X might be good in a Stax shell" is basically a politically correct way of saying "X is completely awful and totally unplayable in this format." Stax is completely awful and totally unplayable in this format, and there's very little incentive to run green in the deck: you get this and, what? Sylvan Library? Root Maze is terrible with the Trinisphere/Chalice plan and doesn't do much for you anyway, and you lose the tax elements of Magus and Suppression Field. Two color builds are almost universally terrible because of how awkward their mana is (and Stax already has awkward mana in a mono-colored build).

[Phoenix Ignition]

This set sure has a lot of bad cards in it.

Which set does this not pertain to? The set also has some probably playable legacy cards, which is more than some sets can say. There is no set with all decent - good cards.

[rufus]

How does Awakening Zone look like in some sort of Stax build? It combos with Contamination, like Bitterblossum but without the life loss. It provides chumpers too, enables Stack @ 1 lock, and can help you ramp into bigger spells if you need the mana. It does cost 3 but 2G can be played as early as turn 1 with Stax's resources.

For almost all imaginable purposes in Legacy, Awakening Zone is going to be outperformed by Bitterblossom or Goblin Assault. If the spawn tokens were 1/1 instead of 0/1, it would have a lot more potential.

[Cire]

:(

staggershock is

2R
Instant
Deal 2 damage to target creature or player
Rebound

Just one question about how rebound works: If you cast Staggershock when you untap, before your upkeep, can you conceivably kill a X/4 creature? If so then this spell does have some potential if only for its versatility

[ktkenshinx]

Just one question about how rebound works: If you cast Staggershock when you untap, before your upkeep, can you conceivably kill a X/4 creature? If so then this spell does have some potential if only for its versatility
No one has priority during the Untap step, so no spells can be cast (including any of the Rebound ones).

Awakening Zone is not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. Just because the Spawn tokens have low power, does not mean that they are irrelevant. The ability to sac for 1 mana is quite abusable, especially en masses as the tokens are intended to be used. It should not be compared to Blossom or Assault because of this mana producing capability. That said, I do wish it cost 1 less and maybe had a more prohibitive cost (GG instead of 2G).

-ktkenshinx-

[memnarch]

How does Awakening Zone look like in some sort of Stax build? It combos with Contamination, like Bitterblossum but without the life loss. It provides chumpers too, enables Stack @ 1 lock, and can help you ramp into bigger spells if you need the mana. It does cost 3 but 2G can be played as early as turn 1 with Stax's resources.

I think this card looks kick ass. I was thinking this would be great with opposition and beacon of creation. Alas those cards are way high on the cc. So it might not be a good idea outside of a stacks build. Perhaps it will work in some UG control build Ill have to try it out. Probably won't work out but Ill give it a try anyways.

[memnarch]

How does Awakening Zone look like in some sort of Stax build? It combos with Contamination, like Bitterblossum but without the life loss. It provides chumpers too, enables Stack @ 1 lock, and can help you ramp into bigger spells if you need the mana. It does cost 3 but 2G can be played as early as turn 1 with Stax's resources.

I think this card looks kick ass. I was thinking this would be great with opposition and beacon of creation. Alas those cards are way high on the cc. So it might not be a good idea outside of a stacks build. Perhaps it will work in some UG control build Ill have to try it out. Probably won't work out but Ill give it a try anyways.

[rufus]

IMO Awakening Zone has a cute design, but is one of the worse Eldrazi spawn cards in the set. Several of the Eldrazi Drone creatures more interesting at net :g: for a Grizzly Bear, and net 1:g: or 1:r: for a Hill Giant, and with Eldrazi Temple as a convenient 2-mana land, I would be unsurprised if the more limited formats see a deck that uses them to ramp up. I don't think that they're fast enough for legacy though.

[Vacrix]

Stax is completely awful and totally unplayable in this format, and there's very little incentive to run green in the deck: you get this and, what? Sylvan Library?
Uba Stax much? Its RG. Its a few cards short of being good but its certainly not unplayable, much like Solidarity.

[memnarch]

In what situation would this ever find a place in Legacy? If you have that many creatures on the ground and you have nothing better to do than make them impotent during a main-phase then something is very, very wrong.

On dude recall. I totally agree. Legacy seems to be a game of me playing Goyf and praying it will last another turn on the board to swing because it doesn't have haste. Damn you summoning sickness!!! The legacy board if visualized would probably look something like Mad Max with all the wastelands and general sparsity of creatures.

[memnarch]

Im not exactly sure what those cards are but I would argue that infinite token creation is potentialy stronger then temporary creatures. I think Elspereth is probably the best token generater as of now for control though because those tokens can actually attack and she's a plainswalker.

[Aggro_zombies]

Uba Stax much? Its RG. Its a few cards short of being good but its certainly not unplayable, much like Solidarity.
Stax is, strategically, quite weak. You're playing a high-risk, high-reward deck (like Belcher), except the risks are higher because you're a slow control deck and the rewards are way worse because successful implementation of your strategy doesn't immediately win the game. Also like Belcher, Stax really has to get everything it needs to manage the game in its opening hand, mostly because it has an incredibly awful topdeck mode and it's slow to ramp outside of the occassional dream hand that has a Diamond, a :2: land, and business. There's also the fact that most lock pieces are slow and it has a difficult time answering threats already on the board outside of Smokestack, which is itself glacially slow and can be easily circumvented by opponents with a Top; you can't really Waste-lock the other guy and maintain Smokestack all at once. In a format where Iona regularly gets vomitted out of the opponent's library on turn one, lethal numbers of Tendrils copies hit the stack on turn two, and a 10/10 with protection from your deck rumbles onto the battlefield on turn three, a bunch of synergistic cards and lock pieces that require you to mulligan any hand that doesn't have lands that tap for multiple mana seems...poor, to say the least.

Does this new card help with that? Well, it spams blockers, so your opponent can't easily just try to race with Tarmogoyf. It helps ramp into your lock pieces, but colorless mana is only an issue for Stax in the first couple turns, and at three mana this isn't going to help with that. The tokens themselves can't do any damage, so it's not an additional win condition, something the deck sorely needs. Finally, it's in green, which is one of the worst colors for the deck. Yes, I'm aware of UbaStax; I remember destroying it years ago in a Sally tournament with mono-black Pox, which - combined with the age of the recently necroed UbaStax thread - should tell you something about how viable the deck is.

Every time a new set comes out, there's always some high-cost, color-light card that people say, "Wow, this would be good in Stax!" And yet, despite how many new toys the deck seems to get, it never stops being an abysmal choice for anything but a metagame chock-full of control decks.

[Vacrix]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104240&stc=1&d=1271131412

Looks interesting. You steal the opponents stuff even after it leaves play. Its costly but I like it. It seems kinda unnecessary though. The ability. When you are smacking for 11, who cares if you steal the other dudes permanents?

[rufus]

Well, it doesn't have trample, so you might be getting chumped or whatever. And it's a cute design.

[Jak]

Well, it doesn't have trample, so you might be getting chumped or whatever. And it's a cute design.

cough*ANNIHILATOR*cough

[Aggro_zombies]

cough*ANNIHILATOR*cough
*cough*LANDS*cough*

Seriously, they had to get that chump-blocking Hierarch into play somehow.

In other news, I finally found a titan I'm interested in using for Vorosh.

[jrsthethird]

Notice how they screwed up the collector numbers for Kozilek and It That Betrays. It's likely that they originally had a name between KOZ and NOT that for some reason at last minute had to change names. Also could just have been a horrible screw-up in the file.

Leaving 'Artifact' off the type line and now flipping collector numbers? Did they rehire the people that botched Anthologies?

[(nameless one)]

There are a bunch of new Italian(?) cards that are spoiled. This one caught my attention:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104255&d=1271172586

Its essentially:


Enlightened Field 2WW
Enchantment (Rare)
Whenever one or more creatures attack, Enlightened Field deals damage to each of those creatures equal to the number of attacking creatures.

Does this have a room in Quinn, Landstill or even Enchantress builds? I see it best fit in Quinn with Humility (for those who do not run Moat)

I was hoping to see something like:


The Wall 2WW
Enchantment
Creatures with defender can attack as if they dont have defender.
Creatures without defender cannot attack

but Enlightened Field is okay enough.

[Aggro_zombies]

That card doesn't do enough.

Let's picture a scenario where your opponent attacks with Tarmogoyf, alone, to get exalted bonuses. This does 1 to it. It doesn't die.

Let's picture a different scenario where your opponent has Lord of Atlantis and Merrow Rejeerey in play. He activates the changeling manland and attacks with it and a Cursecatcher. This does 2 to each of them. Neither die.

Let's picture a different scenario where you're about to play this on turn four, but your opponent Chants you, then plays Petal, Ritual, Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Ad Nauseum, LED, Petal, Infernal Tutor, sacrifice LED with Tutor on the stack, Tendrils. You die.

Let's picture a different scenario where your opponent plays Tropical Island on turn one, then follows it with Manabond, activate Manabond. You get Waste-locked out of double white, but if you weren't and played this on turn four, your opponent switches to attacking with one Factory and using the others to pump it. It doesn't die, but you're even more likely to go to time now.

Let's picture a final scenario. Your opponent (on the draw) had turn one Lackey, turn two swing, drop Ringleader, get three guys, play a Piledriver, turn three play Warchief and attack with the team. Lackey makes a Siege-gang. You play this. Now your opponent can't attack you anymore except for two damage at a time!

Clearly, this card is a house against decks like Goblins with lots of small guys and no real ways to pump them. It seems mediocre to downright awful everywhere else, and I have no idea why you'd want this over a much more broadly applicable card like Humility.

[Arsenal]

Although probably having little-no application in Legacy, Enlightened Field is going to be pretty good in Standard... I'm looking at Chapin Control specifically.

[rufus]

Seems terrible. :2::w::w: for a card that's only good against swarm type decks. In a format with Moat and Humility available... And it can't answer Squire.

[memnarch]

This set really didn't bring anything to legacy besides maybe inquisition of Kozilek but duress/thought seize wins over it big time. Black already has smother, but there is a chance it might see a small minority of play in some mostly black discard build with DC and not wanting to lose more life to thought seize. Realms uncharted might see some play in 42 lands but that deck is pretty crap IMO. And someone had mentioned a Merfolk before that might see play. Most everything in the set is way overcosted, over the top and way conditional. Even the CA spellblade guy has two conditions to fill before you can draw. And that Eldracrapy guy that cost 20 to activate his ability looks like it belongs in the next un set un-enthusiastic.

[Malchar]

We're lucky if we get more than one card that's playable in legacy per set. Then again, it seems like when we get a bunch of good cards people get upset about power creep anyway.

[rufus]

I'd say there are a couple of legacy probable cards in the spoiler so far.
Emrakul - cc cheating combos.
Inquisition of Kozilek

And a number of ones that are possibles:
Hellcarver Demon - Reanimator combo target. (Necromancy/Shallow Grave - Hellcarver Demon/Magus of the Jar)
Tuktuk the Explorer - Goblins, Pox, Stax..
All is Dust - Unlikely, but it's a colorless sweeper.
Student of Warfare - Death and Taxes/White Weenie
Dude Recall - Affinity
Renegade Doppelganger - Low CC & possibly potent effect.
Lord of Shatterskull Pass - Possible inclusion to Dragon Stompy
Gigantomancer - Plausible wincon.
Momentus Fall - Probably not, but card draw...
Khalni Hydra - Underpriced fattie in elf decks.
Realms Uncharted - possibly potent effect.
Vengevine - Survival Combo

[Gheizen64]

Oust - W
Sorcery
Put target creature on top of its owner's library second from the top. Its controller gains 3 life.

It's funny because you can also put a creature that don't matter second from the top and they'll have to redraw it. Also fun to cast on your own wall of blossom/omen. Too bad this isn't instant, i would have tried it for sure.

[The_Red_Panda]

Oust is currently listed as an Instant on MTGsalvation.com, I'm not sure where you saw it as a sorcery.

Oust -- W
Instant, Uncommon
Put target creature on top of its owner's library second from the top. Its controller gains 3 life.

If you ask me, this is the best thing ROE has given legacy so far.

Oops, Ninja Edit: Its listed as an instant in the spoiler, but the actual moderator who posted it in a thread has it as a sorcery. I guess that makes it a sorcery, and therefore a lot less awesome. Probably not good enough for legacy.

[DrJones]

I think the pestilence demon deserves more love than it currently gets. It has evasion and a "pump ability" that happens to kill everything else in board.

[Gheizen64]

I think the pestilence demon deserves more love than it currently gets. It has evasion and a "pump ability" that happens to kill everything else in board.

Yeah, but what deck would play it? I mean, this is the format where BSA isn't even played.

[Vacrix]

Gravitational Field 3UU
Enchantment
Creatures with flying get +2/+0.
Creatures without flying get -2/-0.

This looks fantastic against swarm aggro, and makes Bitterblossum tokens 3/1's. I like it. Its a bit costly, but once it comes down its going to slow aggros game down significantly.

[DrJones]

Yeah, but what deck would play it? I mean, this is the format where BSA isn't even played.What creature is BSA?

[Vacrix]

Suffer the Past XB
Instant
Exile X target cards from target player’s graveyard. For each card exiled this way, that player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.

IF Solidarity splashes black, then this is an out to Ichorid instead of an Autoloss, and functions as an alternative win condition. I'm looking into builds for it right now. If anyone has thoughts, please share. The thought of running this intrigues me.


Also, Spoils of Evil + Suffer the Past = Tech against dredge. :P

[Arsenal]

What creature is BSA?

Baneslayer Angel.

[memnarch]

So basically what I said before a lot of things with way too high CC for legacy:



I'd say there are a couple of legacy probable cards in the spoiler so far.
Emrakul - cc cheating combos. I think there is better things for that but no.
Inquisition of Kozilek Yes maybe will see some play. I think duress beats this

And a number of ones that are possibles:
Hellcarver Demon - Reanimator combo target. (Necromancy/Shallow Grave - Hellcarver Demon/Magus of the Jar) For necromancy I actually like Pestilence Demon more, his effect is immediate and they use black so he could prove of some use.
Tuktuk the Explorer - Goblins, Pox, Stax. - Remember He AND the tokens are legendary and a whole lot of STP is out there. But people probably will toss one in their goblin deck.
All is Dust - Unlikely, but it's a colorless sweeper. - Overcosted if you want to sweep use wrath or humility most of the good stax use white anyways.
Student of Warfare - Death and Taxes/White Weenie - I think this was discussed a little bit back that FOD is better I like the instant speed. That card is really good though so I don't think this one is too horrible just that FOD will be played instead.
Dude Recall - Affinity - Too conditional and they have thoughtcast. Also having to play with hella artifact lands sucks.
Renegade Doppelganger - Low CC & possibly potent effect. - POC
Lord of Shatterskull Pass - Possible inclusion to Dragon Stompy Dragon stompy is weak and so is this card, Im sorry but I hate the new mechanic it pisses me off.
Gigantomancer - Plausible wincon. It cost 8!!! 8 f-ing mana you are going to die before you cast it do you understand? And if you do cast it you will die shortly there after.
Momentus Fall - Probably not, but card draw... It would be awesome on a Goyf in resp to a kill spell but think; the problem is 1. In the 4CC slot you could also play Natural Order sealing the game in 3 turns. or 2. A lot of the mono green aggro decks run on such a low curve. (the kavu predator decks aren't half bad.) I think if you really needed draw you could splash for DC or some blue ;) also 3. and the big 3 here is you have to leave 4 mana open to use this in resp to a kill spell thats really not gonna work well in a creature deck. and 4. Its conditional.
Khalni Hydra - Underpriced fattie in elf decks. Also pretty conditional creatures tend to get exiled a lot in Legacy.
Realms Uncharted - possibly potent effect. Kinda but its no gifts
Vengevine - Survival Combo cool creature and haste is great but again CC and it has a good chance of being exiled. I would sooner cast Giant Solifuge. Survival has cooler combos then that even
Demigod of Revenge is cooler then that.

The next set is rumored to be Mirroden 2.0 and it kinda seems like it with the colorless stuff in this one leading up to it. I have hope the next set will bring good stuff. But I'm not complaining Zendikar finally got us the rest of the sac lands.

[Barook]

Contaminated Ground :1::b:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a Swamp.
Whenever enchanted land becomes tapped, its controller loses 2 life.

Maybe combined with Wasteland and Sinkhole for maximum mana-/colorscrew? It's a bit like a single target Blood Moon.

Edit: This enchant is also lots of fun with Ports.

[burigo]

Gravitational Field 3UU
Enchantment
Creatures with flying get +2/+0.
Creatures without flying get -2/-0.

This looks fantastic against swarm aggro, and makes Bitterblossum tokens 3/1's. I like it. Its a bit costly, but once it comes down its going to slow aggros game down significantly.

hated that card........
hate flying, shadow, creatures that can´t be blocked etc
trample is so much cooler

[lordofthepit]

Does anyone else think "It That Betrays" is a really dumb name? I'm really hating the flavor of this set.

[Vacrix]

Dormant Gomazoa - {1}{U}{U}
Creature -- Jellyfish
5/5
Flying
Dormant Gomazoa enters the battlefield tapped.
Dormant Gomazoa doesn't untap during your untap step.
Whenever you become the target of a spell, you may untap Dormant Gomazoa.



Whenever you become the target of a spell or ability.. Hmm.. It looks like a kick ass beater in something like aggroStasis.dec, that is, if there is an easy way to untap it.

[Aggro_zombies]

Contaminated Ground :1::b:
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant land
Enchanted land is a Swamp.
Whenever enchanted land becomes tapped, its controller loses 2 life.

Maybe combined with Wasteland and Sinkhole for maximum mana-/colorscrew? It's a bit like a single target Blood Moon.

Edit: This enchant is also lots of fun with Ports.
Wait, so you're running Wasteland, Port, Sinkhole, and this? That seems really bad. Like, is your plan to just auto-lose to Lands and all of the decks in the format that only need one or two lands to do stuff? What happens when you put a little pressure on the other guy's mana base and then you don't have any business or anything, so he recovers and kills you?

Land destruction is only good as a tempo-oriented side component of a deck's plan, not as the main dish.

EDIT: @Vacrix: Dormant Gomozoa is lulzy levels of awful because most decks don't play any spells that can target opponents, and the ones that are played are almost universally burn spells or spells with Storm. Zoo plays most of the former and is not going to be impressed with a tapped 5/5 on turn three, and the latter will kill you before you can even attack with this guy. Setting that aside, Stasis is also lulzy levels of awful and shouldn't have any decks built around it, much less ones that try to win by beating down with CIPT 5/5 dudes.

Actually, while we're on the subject, most of this set seems to be lulzy levels of awful. I mean, sure, there's a lot of TIMMAY, but most of it is just...cute, but not that interesting. I dunno, I feel kind of disappointed. Maybe something awesome will get spoiled yet, though. There is that better Heartstone that just got leaked, but I think I like it more because I love Heartstone to death than because the effect is good.

[Vacrix]

@Vacrix: Dormant Gomozoa is lulzy levels of awful because most decks don't play any spells that can target opponents, and the ones that are played are almost universally burn spells or spells with Storm. Zoo plays most of the former and is not going to be impressed with a tapped 5/5 on turn three, and the latter will kill you before you can even attack with this guy. Setting that aside, Stasis is also lulzy levels of awful and shouldn't have any decks built around it, much less ones that try to win by beating down with CIPT 5/5 dudes.

Well, you can also play spells that target yourself. That was really the point. I agree, counting on the opponent to target you, especially under a Stasis lock, is a godawful strategy. I like Stasis.dec though. I've played a bunch of variants on MWS with moderate success. I think of all the games I've played, which was A LOT of them trust me, the Stasis lock won me the game if it hit play. The issue was really getting it to hit play. The builds that got it into play quickly were not able to protect it well while the decks that could protect well couldn't get it into play quickly. Right now its a trade off. I'm constantly looking for stuff to make the deck better. Gomozoa in particular was just interesting because if you have a way to target yourself every turn, its pretty much a 1UU 5/5 flying.

[Aggro_zombies]

Well, you can also play spells that target yourself. That was really the point. I agree, counting on the opponent to target you, especially under a Stasis lock, is a godawful strategy. I like Stasis.dec though. I've played a bunch of variants on MWS with moderate success. I think of all the games I've played, which was A LOT of them trust me, the Stasis lock won me the game if it hit play. The issue was really getting it to hit play. The builds that got it into play quickly were not able to protect it well while the decks that could protect well couldn't get it into play quickly. Right now its a trade off. I'm constantly looking for stuff to make the deck better. Gomozoa in particular was just interesting because if you have a way to target yourself every turn, its pretty much a 1UU 5/5 flying.
I think you're trying too hard to enable a mediocre card. You should stop before it all ends in tears and I have to tell you that I told you so.

[SpeedOfDark]

Gigantomancer - Plausible wincon. It cost 8!!! 8 f-ing mana you are going to die before you cast it do you understand? And if you do cast it you will die shortly there after.


I believe this is the idea:
pay 4 mana for NO -> giantomancer -> pay x mana -> swing with x 7/7s

In other words, pay 4+x mana to attack with x 7/7s. In an elf deck, this can happen as early as turn 3-4.

I'm not saying it will necessarily see play, but if your set up is semi-acceptable, you can same-turn win with this NO target instead of waiting 2 extra turns with prog. I wouldn't go as far to say that's its a better NO target than prog, but having 1 of each available might work out for some elf aggro decks:

1 prog
1 giantomancer
4 NO
12+ lords
a bunch of elves

PS:

I like contaminated ground and the 1cc white removal spell. If nothing else, they are acceptable budget versions of sotp and sinkhole :)

[Vacrix]

I will laugh my ass off if someone plays Gigantomancer with Proclamation of Rebirth. Thats one way to cheat it into play, provided you can somehow get it into the grave first.

EDIT:

I think you're trying too hard to enable a mediocre card. You should stop before it all ends in tears and I have to tell you that I told you so.

If you've ever played with it, you would know that it is far from a mediocre card. Its a great card. Its just tricky to play with. Stasis lock wins games. I already explained the issue of getting it into play. Whenever I talk about Stasis people always scream "ZOMG why would you play with that, Krosan Grip much?!". Please try to play Krosan Grip with your tapped lands. I've only had it Krosan Gripped twice the entire time I've played with it, and I still won one of those games. Stasis would be a competitive deck if people bothered to break it.

[jrsthethird]

Yeah, but what deck would play it? I mean, this is the format where BSA isn't even played.

Pestilence Demon can't touch BSA though.


Does anyone else think "It That Betrays" is a really dumb name? I'm really hating the flavor of this set.

Almost as bad of a name as That Which Was Taken.

[Cire]

Any use for:

Kiln Fiend - {1}{R}
Creature -- Elemental Beast
1/2
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, Kiln Fiend gets +3/+0 until end of turn.

<Wee dragonauts round 2>

Training Grounds {U}
Enchantment
Activated abilities of creatures you control cost up to {2} less to activate. This effect can't reduce the amount of mana an ability costs to activate to less than one mana.

<umm...no idea just has to have some use...>

Thought Gorger {2}{B}{B}
Creature -- Horror
2/2
Trample
When Thought Gorger enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on it for each card in your hand. If you do, discard your hand.
When Thought Gorger leaves the battlefield, draw a card for each +1/+1 counter on it.

<You get to draw the cards even if it gets exiled>

Tajuru Preserver
{1}{G}
Creature -- Elf Shaman
2/1
Spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause you to sacrifice permanents.

<Interesting effect... takes away the annihilator ability...>


Mortician Beetle
{B}
Creature -- Insect
1/1
Whenever a player sacrifices a creature, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Mortician Beetle.

<combined with blacks multiple sac effects (edicts and therapy alike), this can actually get pretty big, also another use for those spawn tokens>

[Vacrix]

Kiln Fiend - {1}{R}
Creature -- Elemental Beast
1/2
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, Kiln Fiend gets +3/+0 until end of turn.

It looks fun. It might fit into a burn variant. Dropping this turn 2, enables nuts turn 3 plays.


Mortician Beetle
{B}
Creature -- Insect
1/1
Whenever a player sacrifices a creature, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Mortician Beetle.


You can sac your own creatures too. I'm sure there is a way to abuse this.

[whienot]

Awesome. Mortician Beetle is going in my Thraximundar EDH deck.

[Nidd]

That Beetle screams Pox to me. Maybe with Bitterblossom, some kind of Aggro Pox. How about Bloodghast in there?

*Heads to the drawing board*

[Barook]

Blue got a Heartstone variant:

Training Grounds :u:
Enchantment
Activated abilities of creatures you control cost up to :2: less to activate. This effect can't reduce the amount of mana an ability costs to activate to less than one mana.

Any ideas how to exploit it? Azorius Guildmage comes to mind, but there should be better ways to abuse this.

[kicks_422]

I think it will only help levelers.

[from Cairo]

That Beetle screams Pox to me. Maybe with Bitterblossom, some kind of Aggro Pox. How about Bloodghast in there?

*Heads to the drawing board*

+ Braids, Cabal Minion

IDK, every now and then something get's printed that seems like it would help this sort of archetype, but it never seems to push it to being competative. Still eventually it may hit a point that pushes it over that edge.

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

Could Grav Field find a home in Fairy Stompy? It's another card to pitch to Force and can stem some damage. Maybe in the board?

Thought Gorger seems decent, can't wait to use that in block u/b control.

[dahcmai]

We might have a decent one finally for Lagacy.

Arrogant Bloodlord - {1}{B}{B}
Creature -- Vampire Knight
4/4
Whenever Arrogant Bloodlord blocks or becomes blocked by a creature with power 1 or less, destroy Arrogant Bloodlord at end of combat.

So it get's blocked by Lacky, ETW tokens....ummm Goblin Welder? Not bad if you stop and think about it. It's not big enough to take on a Goyf most of the time, but it's still a nice beater that comes out early.


And another one, might be useful though I doubt it, but it's interesting to see blue get such a monster.

Dormant Gomazoa - {1}{U}{U}
Creature -- Jellyfish
5/5
Flying
Dormant Gomazoa enters the battlefield tapped.
Dormant Gomazoa doesn't untap during your untap step.
Whenever you become the target of a spell, you may untap Dormant Gomazoa.



Something for goyfsligh?

Kiln Fiend - {1}{R}
Creature -- Elemental Beast
1/2
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, Kiln Fiend gets +3/+0 until end of turn.


Probably an infinite mana combo at the very least in this one. Not horrid considering it's only 1 mana.

Training Grounds
{U}
Enchantment
Activated abilities of creatures you control cost up to {2} less to activate. This effect can't reduce the amount of mana an ability costs to activate to less than one mana.

Ahahahahaa Sorry Stax players + a little off the price of Tabernacle.

Tajuru Preserver
{1}{G}
Creature -- Elf Shaman
2/1
Spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause you to sacrifice permanents.

[kicks_422]

Training Grounds + Pili-Pala gets you infinite "taps". I don't know what use that would be for, aside from something janky like Viridian Longbow

[walkerdog]

We might have a decent one finally for Lagacy.

Arrogant Bloodlord - {1}{B}{B}
Creature -- Vampire Knight
4/4
Whenever Arrogant Bloodlord blocks or becomes blocked by a creature with power 1 or less, destroy Arrogant Bloodlord at end of combat.

So it get's blocked by Lacky, ETW tokens....ummm Goblin Welder? Not bad if you stop and think about it. It's not big enough to take on a Goyf most of the time, but it's still a nice beater that comes out early.


And another one, might be useful though I doubt it, but it's interesting to see blue get such a monster.

Dormant Gomazoa - {1}{U}{U}
Creature -- Jellyfish
5/5
Flying
Dormant Gomazoa enters the battlefield tapped.
Dormant Gomazoa doesn't untap during your untap step.
Whenever you become the target of a spell, you may untap Dormant Gomazoa.



Something for goyfsligh?

Kiln Fiend - {1}{R}
Creature -- Elemental Beast
1/2
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, Kiln Fiend gets +3/+0 until end of turn.


Probably an infinite mana combo at the very least in this one. Not horrid considering it's only 1 mana.

Training Grounds
{U}
Enchantment
Activated abilities of creatures you control cost up to {2} less to activate. This effect can't reduce the amount of mana an ability costs to activate to less than one mana.

Ahahahahaa Sorry Stax players + a little off the price of Tabernacle.

Tajuru Preserver
{1}{G}
Creature -- Elf Shaman
2/1
Spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause you to sacrifice permanents.




You realize that the errata or whatever on Tab means that it won't drop at all with the Elf?

[Cire]

Ancient Stirrings g
Sorcery (C)
Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a colorless card from among them and put it into your hand. Then put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

a one mana, 5 card digging, cantrip for land and eldrazi....but most importantly Artifacts!!

[wcm8]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/riseoftheeldrazi/spoiler

Visual spoiler in case anyone missed it.

[rufus]

Yeah, it doesn't look like there's that much compelling older stuff with training grounds. Magus of the Library, Feral Animist, Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero (and other rebels), Kaho, Minamo Historian, Guildmages. - nothing exiting in that list.

Proclamation of Rebirth is cmc based. You can't use it to revive Gigantomancer.

[ktkenshinx]

Question about Training Grounds' interaction with Kaho.

If you exile a card with CMC 3, let's say, will it only cost 1 to cast it off of Kaho? Or will the card check, so to speak, the cost of the instant against the value of X (in this case, only 1 because the ability costs 2 less to play)?

Thanks in advance for any help on this rather inane rules question.

-ktkenshinx-

[SpeedOfDark]

Ancient Stirrings g
Sorcery (C)
Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a colorless card from among them and put it into your hand. Then put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

a one mana, 5 card digging, cantrip for land and eldrazi....but most importantly Artifacts!!

! O_O

interesting. Whats the rarity on this one?

[Skeggi]

You realize that the errata or whatever on Tab means that it won't drop at all with the Elf?
I don't think that's true. Tabernacle gives your own creatures an ability. Meaning the ability comes from a source you control, not your opponent.

interesting. Whats the rarity on this one?
I think the '(C)' stands for 'Common'.

[Vacrix]

http://djmagiccards.com/images/large/Rise_of_Recurring_Insight_LRG.jpg

Doesn't look half bad in storm combo.


EDIT:

http://djmagiccards.com/images/large/Rise_of_Living_Destiny_LRG.jpg

Provides a decent stall mechanism to get Eldrazi's online.


EDIT 2:

LOL The Eldrazi Spawn tokens look like The Flood from Halo

http://djmagiccards.com/images/large/Rise_of_Eldrazi_Spawn_LRG.jpg

EDIT 3:
AHHAHAHAH read the flavor text:

http://djmagiccards.com/images/large/Rise_of_Lightmine_Field_LRG.jpg

[Hopo]

I don't think that's true. Tabernacle gives your own creatures an ability. Meaning the ability comes from a source you control, not your opponent.



Yes, but the point was that the errata changed the word "sacrifice" to "destroy" in Tabernacle.

[Gheizen64]

That G sorcery that make you dig 5 for artifact, land or colorless is really nice
Also, the 2W sorcery that make you gain 2 and draw a card if you have more life than the opponent with rebound is nice too, especially with the new 1W 2/1 that gain 4 as it citb and wall of omen. Gogogo white control in T2.


Ah Wizard printed a "replacement" for Mogg fanatic. R, 1/1 that when die deal 1 damage to any target. It has nothing on original fanatic, sigh.

[Grollub]

Blue got a Heartstone variant:

Training Grounds :u:
Enchantment
Activated abilities of creatures you control cost up to :2: less to activate. This effect can't reduce the amount of mana an ability costs to activate to less than one mana.

Any ideas how to exploit it? Azorius Guildmage comes to mind, but there should be better ways to abuse this.

Izzet Guildmage look alot more back breaking, it's kind of nice how you just need three lands to go off with a singleton Reset and this (if you even need a combo finish to win, when you have an infinity amount of 1 mana Forks).

[DrJones]

Yeah, Izzet Guildmage + Training Grounds + Manamorphose = win, too. Training Grounds is aggresively costed, but seems difficult to break it as it's a 3 card combo at best.

[Nightmare]

Training Grounds + Sliver Queen = Infinite slivers

Is suspend an activated ability?

Read Training Grounds again.

[(nameless one)]

EDIT 3:
AHHAHAHAH read the flavor text:

http://djmagiccards.com/images/large/Rise_of_Lightmine_Field_LRG.jpg

This card is actually a good sideboard card against Goblins (For Quinn builds at least).

[Arsenal]

This card is actually a good sideboard card against Goblins (For Quinn builds at least).

I think there are better solutions to Goblins. I mean, you have Burrenton-Forge Tender (1cc), CoP: Red (2cc), Tivadar's Crusade/Tivadar of Thorn (3cc), and Sphere of Law (4cc). Is the Field really better than any of those when thinking of the Goblins matchup?

[Skeggi]

Good luck getting :2::w::w: against Goblins in the first place. Then ask yourself why you didn't run Moat or Wrath of God: this card doesn't stop a few Goblins. When you reach :2::w::w:, you need something that stops them all.

[Arsenal]

Good luck getting :2::w::w: against Goblins in the first place. Then ask yourself why you didn't run Moat or Wrath of God: this card doesn't stop a few Goblins. When you reach :2::w::w:, you need something that stops them all.

Although I agree there are better options than Lightmine Field against Goblins, getting 2WW shouldn't be too difficult. Many Goblin lists have been cutting Port in order to support RB Goblins or Instigator/Chieftain. Outside of Wasteland and maybe Port, they have no way to disrupt mana development. Also, how many non-basics does Quinn run? I thought that Sheets was pretty much it.

[Skeggi]

It's not that your mana gets disrupted, it means you're either dead before you reach :2::w::w: or you're nearly dead. Either way, Lightmine Field won't save the day.

[Barook]

Yeah, Izzet Guildmage + Training Grounds + Manamorphose = win, too. Training Grounds is aggresively costed, but seems difficult to break it as it's a 3 card combo at best.
Interesting. Rite of Flame also works for infinite :r: while speeding up things otherwise.

[jrsthethird]

Manamorphose lets you fix mana and draw to the card you need to win. Much better than just getting a ton of R.

[anonymos]

Yeah, Izzet Guildmage + Training Grounds + Manamorphose = win, too. Training Grounds is aggresively costed, but seems difficult to break it as it's a 3 card combo at best.

Found my new casual deck of lols...

[Meekrab]

Apparently you can now run 8 Terramorphic Expanse? Budget decks rejoice?

[Vacrix]

This card is actually a good sideboard card against Goblins (For Quinn builds at least).

Meh I don't like it. Its like a better Aurifcation but its still mediocre compared to Moat and Humility.

[Lothian]

Izzet Guildmage + Training Grounds + Manamorphose

Looks great, only if it's working.. Manamorphose will need to resolve to give you the mana. Then you cannot copy it as it's gone.
Pity, it looked awesome for the fun of it, and potentially a new funny archetype

[Barook]

Looks great, only if it's working.. Manamorphose will need to resolve to give you the mana. Then you cannot copy it as it's gone.
Pity, it looked awesome for the fun of it, and potentially a new funny archetype
Cast it, copy it, let the first copy resolve, go to town.

Where's the problem? You just need :1::r::u: to start the combo.

[rufus]

UU for guildmage, U for Training Grounds, 1R for Manamorphose, and U for the first copy - you don't let the original resolve 'till you've picked up your deck - less one card. All of the Izzet Guildmage sillyness works that way. Izzet Guildmage + Ideas Unbound/Lava Spike + Desperate Ritual or Izzet Guildmage + Reset is the same.

[Gocho]

I really like Training Grounds to accelerate Counter/Rebels, with Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero you can recycle Children of Korlis every turn for 2 mana. Maybe you can get enough rebels in play to use Shared Discovery.

[pi4meterftw]

On MWS people are like: Plz brg Legacy with ROE LOL!

But ROE doesn't bring anything to legacy. How is it different from "Legacy" or "Legacy excluding Homelands?"

Or maybe they're trying to dupe their opponents into playing with cards from ROE, so they say they're testing the set when really they're just hoping their opponent will run a bunch of 10-15 mana spells.

[xTrainx]

Ancient Stirrings actually feels like a half decent card - but probably not entirely playable, the other tutors outclass it.

Ancient Stirrings G
Sorcery Common
Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a colorless card from among them and put it into your hand. Then put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

[(nameless one)]

Ancient Stirrings actually feels like a half decent card - but probably not entirely playable, the other tutors outclass it.

Ancient Stirrings G
Sorcery Common
Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a colorless card from among them and put it into your hand. Then put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

I actually see the potential of this card post Mirrodin 2.0.

[dahcmai]

Well, if anyone ever finds a way to make Legion Land Loss work again, that card is gold in it. It's chock full of Green and Artifacts. I noticed it also and I'll keep it in mind. It might find a nice place in some deck one of these days. It's not bad, just not broken. I might try to find a use if it was an instant, but sorcery makes me sad.