U/G Lockdown

[Oiolosse]

I am very gracious to hear all [constructive] criticism y'all have to give. I have been playing this deck (in addition to an uncountably many other casual builds) with friends and at card shops for almost a decade but have never played legacy. This site actually inspired me to see if I can tweak it to a decent competitive level. Here is my most recent list with explanations/card choices to follow:

LAND:
1 Breeding Pool
5 Forest
3 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Gaea's Cradle
4 Rishadan Port

UTILITY CREATURES:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Cursecatcher
4 Coiling Oracle

TUTOR/DRAW:
4 Meditate
3 Living Wish

LOCK PIECES:
4 Winter Orb
4 Tangle Wire
2 Opposition

OTHER:
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 **BLANK**

SB:
**Anything I want--I take note on what I need/use--same goes with using Living Wish**

Purpose:

The intent is to softlock the opponent as quickly as possible while out-tempo'ing their midgame to set up for a near permanent lock.

Disclaimer:

I realize that the mana curve is rather high and that I cannot (or better, should not) rely on Birds/Hierarch/Oracle to propel
me into the lock. I have theoretically considered either Chrome or Diamond in lieu of Oracle and/or my one drops, but I stress theoretical. Playing a second turn tangle wire will always inspire a subtle chuckle.

Card Choices:

Tangle Wire: No brainer, 2nd turn TW is vicious and oftentimes seals the game. I remove a counter and tap the TW. This effectively causes me to tap only two (and I have another mana source from creature). Depending on my opponent's deck/position I can do many things: play meditate if it's safe, cast winter orb, rishadan port, but typically I just keep extending my board position.

Winter Orb: Terrific against control (if it sees play), amazing with Rishadan Port. If I can find them at one land open and tap it with port/bird then it spells trouble because this bides time to develop my board.

Garruk: Win Con, untaps lands due to tangle wire/winter orb. Makes beaters or makes my little dudes beaters. Makes tokens for Opposition.

Opposition: I know it is slow and its cmc is high and it requires that my creatures are still around but man when this thing sticks it's amazing.

Cursecatcher: I can use him when tapped. So, if TW or opps or I swing or whichever; I can still force spike. This is nice when tangle wire is waning or winter orb is loosing its hold. They effectively are tapped out one more land when playing important spells.

Coiling Oracle: When I played this deck casually I loved him. The games where slower and his synergy with tangle wire/orb/garruk was magnified. Not so sure anymore, he draws me a card which the opponent sees or drops me a land. If I hit a land, it's great..but if I have orb out then it's a one shot use. He is great opps fodder though, and tangle wire taps him instead of my lands.

Living Wish: Will take this out I believe. I just cant justify it save to find me a wincon or utility land. I can't find tabernacle as that is countersynergistic with Opps..I need to test others, possible draw or more control.

BLANK: This was stifle to save my lands from wasteland and my creatures from EE, deed, and other. And to stop their fetch activations which would only intensify the TW lock..this seems very conditional and more of a SB so I changed to Root Maze. This proved very nice at times and horrible at others..now it is whatever the game calls for. Whatever I need most at that time and that is not already slotted in the deck. I then treat all blanks as this for the remainder of the game. I take a note what I chose for future consideration.



Cards that I have considered and would like an opinion on:
Sphere of Resistance: This would work well with the mana denial theme and I have 8 mana givers which give me an edge.
Quirion Ranger: Great with tangle wire and winter orb. This would replace Coiling Oracle. (Chalice at 1 -- oh my!!).
Garruk#4: He is that good in most situations (with other lock pieces).
Back to Basics: this wrecks most decks, no more tangle wire and in with QRangers--adds fragility though.

--OR--ADDING WHITE
I have access to Etutor: No more living wish, too slow..allows me to toolbox, cut an orb, cut sphere, opps, etc.
I have access to Elspeth: Great with opps, another wincon, great with tangle wire, increases mana curve..WW..
I have access to StP: Fast, reliable, takes care of untapped stragglers.
I have access to Armageddon: Softlock with orb/TW/opps--then, BOOM..but with only 8 mana givers and no mana producing artifacts and no Crucible of Worlds this may not be viable. Possibly though with a toolbox setup I can singleton more.
**Wasteland/BtB/Moon effects would devastate me. As of now I have 9 basic lands and have played against a LD heavy deck and been OK. If I could get it to run smooth enough to lock before BtB or Moon then dealing with Wastelands is OK..and if I take the toolbox route with Etutor (crucible) then I may be just fine.

This deck seems vulnerable but when I lock early and drop opps with 2-3 creatures I easily win unless they MD Krosan Grip and even then if I winter orb they will never have the mana anyway. Remember that I can opp my orb at EoT so that I untap ALL of my lands to their one.

It's fragile, it's fun as hell to play and it needs your help.

Thank you!

[Kangaxx]

I'd definitely would consider Propaganda. I also think that you need a win condition. But hopefully you can throw in some beaters in the board to solve that problem.

[flrn]

Just add 2 Natural Order and 1 Progenitus in the Filler Slots and you got the win option.

[Gocho]

Don't you see the Winter Wizards deck in the GP Madrid coverage?

UGW with Patron Wizard, Winter Orb, Stonybrook Schoolmaster, a bunch of wizards and Jitte as win condition. The concept is similar to yours, but uses Eladamri's Call rather than Living wish.

Perhaps you can mix both decklists.

[Oiolosse]

I'd definitely would consider Propaganda. I also think that you need a win condition. But hopefully you can throw in some beaters in the board to solve that problem.

I have thought of propaganda actually. It would be hard to fit it MD reliably without including the Etutors, but as a SB option it sounds great. Zoo, elves, Gobs sorta laugh at tapping just 2-4 permanents, they just tap their lands and commence the beatdown with what was dropped before the lock.

@flrn - drawing Progenitus would be a dead draw..also, I have nothing else to Natural Order without making major changes to the base of the deck.

@Gocho - I'll check that deck out, thanks for the heads up. It seems though that this would also change the nature of the deck. Although, I have a casual wizards and Patron if he lands with 1-2 other wizards in play is super fun.

Thanks for the feedback, please keep it coming.

[Vacrix]

Stasis is disgustingly good with Garruk, and Stasis happens to work very well with Rangers + Birds of Paradise. See if you can cut a few spots for Crop Rotation so you can find either Gaea's Cradle or a singleton Forsaken City.

I played a Stasis deck like this a while back on MWS with moderate success. This should give you some ideas.

Stasis
Land:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
3 Savannah
4 Forsaken City
19

Creatures:
4 Quirion Rangers
3 Scryb Rangers
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Court Hussar
16

Lock:
4 Stasis
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Luminarch Ascension
12

Tricks:
4 Stifle
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Umezawa's Jitte
6

Draw:
1 Sensei's Diving Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
7

[Oiolosse]

@Vacrix -- I have tested Stasis just a bit since Garruk and Quirion Ranger add such wonderful synergy, but I have found that without tutors or card draw I cannot reliably cast it. I was thinking of U/g Fish with Garruk, Quirion Ranger, Root Maze, the merfolk gang and that untapping enchantment the fish get but this is an entirely different build.

I really am after the quick exploit of Opposition, tangewire and winterorb in conjuction with quick mana rampers (my casual deck ran 4 sol ring before I realized how retarded broken that was and fundamentally unfair) and rishadan port. I know the threat of EE, Deed, WoG, Pyroclasm, etc. but I feel it is viable. Lowering the creature count and adding moxen is always a choice as well.

If there is extra draw you'd recommend then please speak up. I am eliminating Living Wish for the time being..I can find win cons and utility lands but what I really need is something to find my artifacts and enchantment. Fabricate is too slow I feel. This leaves Etutor, that would be great for all lock pieces and opps.

I toyed with Smokestack as well. As I have Garruk and have been toying with white, so Elspeth, stax would be fed and advantage would be mine. Also armageddon, the mana commitment is easy and my suite of 8 mana givers with Rangers would keep me in the game. But then again, why not just post and consult the 'geddon stax thread!

Criticism please. Thanks.


Additions:

Academy Ruins, great with tangle wire and Pridemage'd artifacts.

[Kangaxx]

Don't you see the Winter Wizards deck in the GP Madrid coverage?

UGW with Patron Wizard, Winter Orb, Stonybrook Schoolmaster, a bunch of wizards and Jitte as win condition. The concept is similar to yours, but uses Eladamri's Call rather than Living wish.

Perhaps you can mix both decklists.

Do you have a link to this list? Sounds interesting.

[Oiolosse]

Updated List:


LAND:
2 Savannah
4 Forest
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Gaea's Cradle
4 Rishadan Port

UTILITY CREATURES:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Quirion Ranger

TUTOR/DRAW:
4 Meditate
4 Enlightened Tutor

LOCK PIECES:
3 Winter Orb
4 Tangle Wire
2 Opposition
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Armageddon

OTHER:
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 WINCON


Sphere of resistance is just excellent. It bides a turn and is esp. good in conjunction with the other lock pieces.

Quirion Ranger is amazing. I can run 1-2 less land and it plays just as well if not better. I save my lands from wasteland, which is huge considering I have done most testing against Trisomy 21. Also, with birds or hierarch out I can push for more mana as well as drop a land when the hand is empty. I just wish I had another way to exploit it.

Out with Cursecatcher--not sure how this will play out as it has saved my ass many times. I just need the space for more honed-utility and the move from U to G has stabilized my early game mana base allowing me to drop an island.

Adding White--Ill see how this goes, I wanted to give Armageddon a try, however with no library manip and no real strong draw (meditate is great, but that's all I use) I may not see it enough for it to matter. But the four Etutor has really enabled me to find a stable lock. Too often I will tangle wire T2 with no follow up-- I gain great tempo for two turns with no way to exploit it. Etutor allows me to EoT for Winter Orb with if sticks pretty much wins me the match (IF sticks).

The three blank WINCONS are still up in there. Elspeth is a choice as she would help against aggro match ups and she skirts humility and ground blockers. She also throw in dudes for my opps which, scoff all you want, when sticks is amazing. I have so much artifact/enchantment that sure they can krosan grip or pridemage but they surely cant deal with all. Not many ppl MD or SB tranquility!

Feedback please, thanks!

[TW_REB]

Do you have a link to this list? Sounds interesting.

I, too, was intrigued:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpmad10/day1#15

[Kangaxx]

I, too, was intrigued:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpmad10/day1#15

The deck looks a little unpolished. 3 enlightened tutor and no singleton Propaganda/Ghostly Prison. No Force of Will. Suboptimal cards like Arcane Denial and Mana Leak. Looks like it can be worked on, but the idea is decent.

[Oiolosse]

Please stop using this thread to discuss other decks. I am working hard on this and appreciate relevant feedback.

[Vacrix]

Why dont you try Trinisphere instead of Sphere of Resistance? You look like you have enough tech in the deck to power it out turn 2 quite often. Its a great way to slow down your opponents so you can play your pieces against aggro and combo. As far as other win cons are concerned. You look like you can slow the game down long enough to get a Luminarch Ascension down. It would be great just as a 1 of to fetch with Enlightened Tutor. Why dont you play x2 SDT that way you can board in counterbalance against combo and burn?

[Oiolosse]

damnit, I just wrote a long ass post, well put and poignantly articulated, but pressed back and lost it. Let me thank you for your feedback and quickly summarize what I just explained in the just vanished 1 & 0 's. Why is Trini better than sphere? I have many one drops so would it hamper me more than help as it would increase the mana cost by two instead of just one? Trini doesn't stack, is that a drawback worth considering. I am assuming it is better against storm, what about zoo, gobs and other aggro? Is Trini vs SoR a meta choice or do you think it is strictly better? Why?

As of late I have abondoned white so as to stabilize my mana base to protect against Wasteland, BtB, Blood Moon and other shenanigans. The Etutor are amazing, but chalice at 1 is naaasty...16 cards are shut down, opposition is ineffective with no creatures to tap. I have been toying with Jace, the Mind Sculptor..I just wanted to see how it played..well it is awesome so far. See, the tapping is mainly mana denial. I have a hard time against aggro matchups due to 1 and 2 drops. Jace allows me to bounce them when needed or if I have board control then I can use her first ability to add denial or the second ability to fix me up. She may prove to be costly and the Etutors may be the better route but he power level is hard to deny..especially with my hidden, super duper tech...

Gilder Bairn

Yes, I have been running this guy..he is just soo damn good. I double Garruk's counters, I double Jace's counters, I double Tangle Wire's counters...I have been thinking of parallax wave and tide as well..the deck would be SLOW, but when these stick they stall and when they stall I can get this guy and stall permanently. He also interacts well with EE, chalice, aether vial, stax..He is a creature that really needs to be abused more though and probably casually. I am probably better off with Etutor and StP or something, but who knows, he may have potential.

I thought of SDT as well, I just need to test, test ,test. I play against Vintage combo elves (skullclamp), Trisomy 21, and Reanimate. I am about to proxy up Enchantress as well (love that deck)...I know, none of these have counterspells, I will have to work on that.

[Kangaxx]

Becuase a first turn Trinisphere is so dehabilitating it wins games?

Plz use card quotes on obscure cards.

Gilder Bairn

This guy is strictly win more.

[Oiolosse]

yeah yeah, damnit I think you are right that he is win-more..he just seems so much fun with the planeswalkers and tangle wire. I will build a casual deck with him and leave those slots for something more eternal. Any suggestions? I was thinking another wincon would be nice. Meloku? Five is too high I feel but keep me out of trouble with winterorb..although I have been pretty good with garruk, opposition (tapping orb at End of your turn), and QRanger.