[Deck] Moon Stax

[Jon Stewart]

This is a deck that I'm working on that I find to be very effective in crippling opponents...

6 Mountain
4 Giant Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon

4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Juggernaut
2 Masticore
2 Razormane Masticore

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Trinisphere

It's easy to compare the deck to Dragon Stompy, another deck that I have some experience with. And I must say, this deck has one thing Dragon Stompy doesn't have, consistency. All of Dragon Stompy's main threats play creatures with two red mana in their casting cost. And almost all of them only become decent if and only if you get Hellbent. The creatures this deck plays don't have to worry about either not having enough red mana sources to play out your hand, or about having to get Hellbent. Chrome Mox only adds to this inconsistency.

In this deck, with 14 red sources, and only 8 cards that require red mana to cast, you almost never get color screwed. This all greatly diminishes the number of times this deck needs to mulligan as compared to Dragon Stompy. And Metalworker really enables some broken plays.

I did try Wasteland in the deck. My only problem is that when I play a Wasteland, my opponents start fetching basic lands. So when I play either a Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon later in the game, they aren't as effective. If opponents don't see a Wasteland, they usually don't hesistate to get all dual lands, and then get surprised when I drop down a Mountain or dump a Simian Spirit Guide along with a Blood Moon all in one turn. All the duals they have on the board, and all the subsequent duals and fetchlands they draw, are mountains all of a sudden. This basically gives you an autowin against almost all of the popular decks in the format, goblins being the only exception. Even against Merfolk, while it's not great, you atleast shut down their Factories and Wastelands, which is decent.

The strength of the deck really comes from it's disruption suite, and the manner in which it can plop down it's entire hand on the second or third turn thanks to Metalworker.

An early Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon can easily shut your opponent out of the game completely. An early Chalice, Trinisphere, or Lodestone Golem can severely restrict and slow down most of the decks in the format.

Failing that, an early Metalworker can make for some truly broken plays. All the different lock pieces interact well together and truly make the game painful for your opponent.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Staff of Domination. No deck with metalworker should be without it.

[Fatestitcher]

By looking at the mana base and accel, it looks like it can plop down it's entire hand early. Some thoughts though, compared to DS your threats lack firepower, no evasiveness, no pump-ability, no double-striking creature. Even a lone Dryad Arbor can act as a Time Walk against your creatures. A single hurkyl's recall spells disaster. I must also add that this deck has the same thing Dragon Stompy have, inconsistency. There is still no way of filtering through the deck. Finding the Masticore to ping the Arbor seems painful.

[Grollub]

Simian Spirit Guide looks a bazillion times better than Lotus Petal, other than that I like the deck. Wasteland and Rishadan Port seem like they would play very well with the aggresive/disruptive nature of the deck. Dryad Arbor is a pretty bad example against a deck with 8 moon effects and Wastelands.

[Jon Stewart]

Dryad Arbor is a pretty bad example against a deck with 8 moon effects and Wastelands.

Lol, Dryad Arbor is a hilarious example actually

What decks play Dryad Arbor exactly?

Countertop/Bant? Yeah, I'm real terrified of Countertop/Bant with my 8 Blood Moon, 4 Lodestone Golem, 4 Chalice of the Void, 3-4 Trinsiphere, Razormane Masticore and 4 Wasteland. Just shaking in my boots thinking about it. ;)

Like I said in the OP, Dragon Stompy while a great deck when it works, can easily lose to itself. All it's main threats require two sources of red mana. Two red mana can sometimes be very hard to come by with a manabase like what D. Stompy runs.

I really like the idea of instead playing lock pieces that double as creatures like Lodestone Golem, and creatures that let my entire hand explode onto the board like Metalworker. \

Creatures that both serve two different roles, and can be cast entirely off of colorless mana is a great advantage over creatures that do nothing but attack in a deck like this.

If you effectively disrupt your opponent, which is what this creaturebase and cards like Lodestone Golem and Metalworker are designed to enable, then you can take as long as you want to finish them off.

[from Cairo]

// Mana (Still a work in progress)
4 Crystal Vein/Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 City Of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Mountain
4 Mox Diamond
1 Lotus Petal

// Pure Disruption
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

// Disruptive Threats (Still a work in progress)
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Su-Chi
2 Razormane Masticore
2 Sword of Fire and Ice

What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

Personally, I think that Dragon Stompy uses the Red Stompy shell better, but regarding your list I would probably cut the Mishra's Factories, Wasteland/Crystal Vein for more Mountains and Great Furnace. Wasteland seems especially bad in this shell because you're curve is higher than most of Legacy and you don't have Crucible, Loam, Stifle or Daze to capitalize on setting your opponent back on mana; obviously you also have Blood Moons which are disruptive while not being detrimental to you. All the non-basics suck under a Moon Effect anyway, so your primary game plan hinges on your lands in play becoming "Basic Mountains", and with them being Mountains and Furnaces they cushion your red source count and Great Furnaces buff your potential Metal Worker mana.

I'd suggest:

4 City Of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Great Furnace
12 Mountain
4 Mox Diamond

Again, personally, I think that having access to SSG and Seething Song makes for a more reliable accelleration plan (and better Daze-proofing) than relying on Metal Worker, and the creatures that this deck vs DS power out don't strike me as being that different in power level (Su-Chi/Lodestone vs Gathan Raiders/Pit Dragon), but I guess it's worth playing around with it.

[Clark Kant]

I like the direction you're going with this a lot, it looks awesome...

A.) Great Furnace seems solid. Likewise, so does Simian Spirit Guide and maybe even Pilgrim's Eye. You get to keep the artifact count up while improving consistency.

B.) Cut Lotus Petal and Mox Diamond. Both cards are garbage with Trinisphere and Lodestone Golem. Maybe play a full set of Trinisphere. Maybe not.

C.) Play more equipment SOFI/SOLS, especially if you're playing Pilgrim's Eye in place of Mox Diamond.

[Jon Stewart]

I looked over the ideas everyone gave me so far and some practical play experience, and updated this decklist. What do you guys think of it now?

6 Mountain
4 Giant Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon

4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Juggernaut
2 Masticore
2 Razormane Masticore

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Trinisphere

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I've been working on a similar idea recently, unaware that this thread existed. Here's where I'm at with it currently:

Red MUD:

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Metalworker
2 Pilgrim's Eye
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Su-Chi
2 Juggernaut

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Mountain
4 Great Furnace

It seems like we're going for a very similar approach, and it probably makes more sense for me to post in this thread than over in MUD Stompy, so I thought we could combine think-tanks and whatnot.

Cheers.

[Jon Stewart]

I actually saw your post over in the Dragon Stompy deck. It and Grullab's post is the reason I decided it's worth it to modify the list to support Simian Spirit Guide.

Yes the decks do look very similar. Your build looks great. There isn't much that I would change.

I think we might be on to something and I welcome your input. :)

How have Wastelands been for you? I haven't liked them quite as much.

I did try Wasteland in my deck. Sometimes, they're great, but sometimes they backfire. When I play a Wasteland, my opponents start fetching basic lands not wanting to lose their lands and thinking that I'm playing Stax and will follow up with a Crucible and blow up all their lands that are nonbasics. So when I play either a Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon later in the game, they aren't as effective. If opponents don't see a Wasteland, they usually don't hesistate to get all dual lands, and then get surprised when I drop down a Mountain or dump a Simian Spirit Guide along with a Blood Moon all in one turn. All the duals they have on the board, and all the subsequent duals and fetchlands they draw, are mountains all of a sudden. This basically gives you an autowin against almost all of the popular decks in the format, goblins being the only exception.

[Pastorofmuppets]

this isn't really AS disruptive as Stax, but it seems pretty good. It seems like a more disruptive version of 5/3.
Also, just a thought, but what's the biggest burn spell for 2 mana that isn't rift?

[from Cairo]

6 Mountain
4 Giant Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon

4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Juggernaut
2 Masticore
2 Razormane Masticore

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Trinisphere

I'd definitely play Su-Chi (or Synod Centurian) over Juggernaut. The ability to block can be relevant, and the fact that it's bigger than Nacatl and Rhox War Monk is greatly beneficial. It's also out of Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning and Lightning Helix range. I'd consider Darksteel Citadel in the Mishra's Factory slot as well. I don't know how much milage you find yourself gaining from Factory w/ no Crucible and 8 moons, if it's working I guess keep it, if it's not doing anything Darksteel Citadel does equally little while being immune to wasteland and buffing Metalworker mana.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Jon Stewart, what kind of sideboard have you been testing?

(I'm still working on getting MWS to run on a Mac, so I haven't gotten the chance to test, so keep that in mind.) But some sideboard cards I've been thinking about are Powder Keg, more Jitte, Shattering Spree, Pyrostatic Pillar, Firespout, Pithing Needle (although I'm not sure if it's strong enough to justify the nombo with Chalice), and (although this is probably just "the danger of cool tech") Arena of the Ancients.

Thoughts?

Also, how have you been liking Masticore/ Razormane Masticore? Like I said I haven't gotten a chance to test much, but I'm not totally sold on them... At any rate, as you can see, I'm only using 2x Razormane in my list, and I'm a little nervous that I'll get in situations where I either don't have enough mana, or I won't be happy about the card disadvantage they can start to create.

One more thing: You make a good argument about why Wasteland might not be the best option for this deck, since having people fetch basics does potentially offset the power of our Moon effects. I had been thinking about possibly using Crucible of Worlds, in order to get more use out of Wasteland and City of Traitors, but this may or may not be the right direction. (I would probably cut some amount of the 2x Juggernaut, Pilgrim's Eye, and Razormane Masticore in my list to make room for 2-3x Crucible if I did this...) Anyways, what I wanted to ask you is how has Mishra's Factory been working out for you? I could see From Cairo's suggestion about replacing these with Darksteel Citadel if Factory isn't doing enough legwork for you, but I wanted to ask how they've been.

[Jon Stewart]

My old deck used to get manaflooded but was otherwise very good. I just made major changes to the deck yesterday based on everyone's suggestions. Haven't had a chance to play the new build yet.

I don't like the Crucible idea much. You have to make room for Crucible, Factories, Wastelands and Smokestack. It ends up making the deck a lot less aggressive overall.

Based on my old build,

Mishra's Factory is good. Some games I don't even end up using it once. But some games I use it a lot, even to trade with stuff like Wild Nacatl, and it's awesome to have that option.

Razormane Masticore was good. First Strike is awesome. The 3 damage can be extremely useful against tons of matchups. Metalworker and Lodestone Golem eat your opponents removal so later threats often stick around if you cast them.

Various sideboard cards I've toyed around with before are...

Tormod's Crypt - Obvious.

Powder Keg (Awesome, Definately play it)

Pyroclasm/Firespout (I liked Pyroclasm more. Firespout hits your Golems, Magus Metalworkers and Juggernauts so I never even bothered to play it.)

Engineered Explosives (This was back when I played Mox Diamond and Lotus Petal, it might not make sense to play the card now).

Thorn of Amethyst (Hurts combo even more).

Uba Mask (Haven't tried it yet, only recently had someone suggest it but it sounds great against control).

Your other sideboard ideas all seem like they have potential too.

I would much rather play Karakas than Arena of Ancients.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I would much rather play Karakas than Arena of Ancients.

Arena of the Ancients is still probably not worth using, but it's worth noticing that it can save you from Progenitus (because its effect doesn't target), whereas Karakas would do jack-shit against everyone's favorite hydra...

On another note, do you think Flametongue Kavu might have a place in the sideboard? If it was only a red artifact or something, I would maindeck that mofo in a heartbeat, but alas... Even so, it seems potentially interesting for the board, since we're pretty light on removal options.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, FTK seems solid.

I can't think of many situations where I would prefer it over Razormane Masticore however. If you're having trouble vs. aggro, it's worth trying regardless, esp if you're already boarding Razormane and want something more.

[Mystical_Jackass]

The 50/50 split on Masticores seems odd. You can't really tutor or draw, so seems like you should just go with one or other, I'd maybe just pick like 2-3. Razormane's got first strike and less mana intensive, Masticore can regen and's cheaper, tough call >.>

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

So, any hopes that some of the new Eldrazi cards could be good for this deck? So far everything they've spoiled is > :9:, which kinda makes me doubt it, but who knows... The other thing is they're not even artifacts, so they don't work very well with Metalworker.

Personally, I really wish they would print a legit beater at :3:. Pyrexian Ironfoot just ain't cuttin' it for me, sadly.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

*Bump*

Anyone still testing this? Jon Stewart?

[evanmartyr]

Anyone try Boom//Bust in here? Seems to put a decent amount of early pressure on, and can really mess with people later in the game (or earlier, even, with Metalworker).

[YigSnakeDaddy]

Pyrexian Ironfoot just ain't cuttin' it for me, sadly.

Do you think the disruption is enough to satisfy Phyrexian Soulgorgers cumulative upkeep for a while?

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Do you think the disruption is enough to satisfy Phyrexian Soulgorgers cumulative upkeep for a while?

Haha... I've taken a couple long hard looks at Phyrexian Soulgorger and about the only deck I can even conceive him going into is something along the lines of Black/ White Tokens... Even in a deck that could reliably keep him around, I think he gets hurt a lot by his lack of trample/ evasion/ shroud, etc.

[YigSnakeDaddy]

Well, I assumed Trinisphere, Chalice and the Blood Moon-effects would buy enough time to have him swing in for damage atleast once.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Well, I assumed Trinisphere, Chalice and the Blood Moon-effects would buy enough time to have him swing in for damage atleast once.

Yeah, but we run a bunch of other creatures that aren't exactly cheap. Playing something with "Cumulative upkeep- sac a creature" is just setting yourself up for all kinds of two-for-one's, unless the creatures that you're sacrificing are tokens that don't really matter. Otherwise, you're just wasting your own tempo and resources.

This is really not very debatable, running Phyrexian Soulgorger in a deck where the average creature costs :3:-:4: is just bad deck-building. Not to mention that the card really isn't very good, just on an overall level.

[Octopusman]

I'm keeping my eye on this thread. Cool stuff~
I think like the MUD deck that metalworker works as a win (big) more. It's super awesome, but I think that trying to avoid including cards specifically because of prospective metalworker insanity is a good move.


However, I'd run Great Furnace over Giant Furnace.

I may have time tonight around 10pm PST if anyone wants to do any kind of MSW testing.

[Jon Stewart]

With Grim Monolith, Metalworker and Voltaic Key running free, I feel like this deck is due for a revival.

[GoldenCid]

Is it really necesary to run 4 Blood moon? I think that an split of 4/3 Magus / moon is right!
Chrome mox isn't good?

[Aggro_zombies]

Is it really necesary to run 4 Blood moon? I think that an split of 4/3 Magus / moon is right!
Chrome mox isn't good?
No, because you have a large number of artifacts you can't imprint, and most of the red cards you do have are not things you want to imprint.

[GoldenCid]

Well...it's ok. Here's my verssion. Suggestions are very needed:

// Lands
6 [TE] Mountain (2)
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MR] Great Furnace

// Creatures
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [UD] Metalworker
4 [U] Juggernaut

// Spells
2 [FD] Staff of Domination
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [CNF] Banefire
2 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
3 [DK] Blood Moon
4 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Solemn simulacrum is good here in exchange for a jitte??