[Experiment] MWS tourney with NO FoW

[Pastorofmuppets]

So are you tired of people arguing that Legacy would be better off without Force?
Want to find out what Legacy would be like without it?
I'm a man of science, in a way. There's really no way to know other than to experiment, right? Would anybody want to do a FoW-less MWS tourney?

[Julian23]

aka the Belcher-reigns-supreme Tourney? Sign me up, sounds like fun!

[Pastorofmuppets]

aka the Belcher-reigns-supreme Tourney? Sign me up, sounds like fun!

well, either Legacy players prove themselves correct, or the poor people who can't afford them are right. Wizards won't care either way, right?
I know I'd probably play a Stompy-style deck, or Trinisphere in the MD Pox.

[Peter_Rotten]

Change your title... maybe you'll get more interest.

[Pastorofmuppets]

thank you, Mr. Rotten. I hadn't thought of that to be honest. I was somewhere in the middle of arguing with DrJones on mtgsalvation and wanting to go back to Bioshock 2.

[menace13]

hmm lemme play out the 1st few rounds IF Belcher or AnT wins die roll just concede.... k have fun thx for playing bye bye
Pretty sure this is how eternal formats w/o fow are played out(really can not believe people actually have to entertain the idea let alone test it out.

[THEchubbymuffin]

Most people would play belcher... no imagination. I would definitely play 4x Gemstone caverns and a lot of 1cc counterspells... and own.

[DrJones]

I will sign in and play a blue deck, and change my title to bigmouth if I lose against combo decks.

[Cabal_chan]

I'm game.

[arebennian]

I will sign in and play a blue deck, and change my title to bigmouth if I lose against combo decks.

You have to stick a comment indicating so it in your signature for 6months if you do :-)

[Pastorofmuppets]

counterbalance might actually be too slow for this format.
hell, Trinisphere might be too slow for this format.

[DrJones]

counterbalance might actually be too slow for this format.
hell, Trinisphere might be too slow for this format.Why? It's almost guaranteed to hit play if you try to land it on your first turn.

Edit: Red players might want to consider Artifact Blast as an option against ANT, SI, Charbelcher, Chalice and Trinisphere decks. You can cast the card turn-0 about 16-25% of the time with Simian Spirit Guide and/or Gemstone Caverns.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Why? It's almost guaranteed to hit play if you try to land it on your first turn.

Edit: Red players might want to consider Artifact Blast as an option against ANT, Charbelcher, Chalice and Trinisphere decks. You can cast the card turn-0 about 16-25% of the time with Simian Spirit Guide and/or Gemstone Caverns.

having 2 of 12 cards in your opening 7 out of 60? You have a 1/15th chance of having one of them in your opening hand (blast), and a 2/15 chance of the others. Hardly 16%.
Also, since DrJones seems to be willing to do it, if this format is healthy and not ruled by combo and Chalice, I'll have a mod change my name to spammy mcnetdeck.
EDIT: oh, well, maybe it's close to 16%. I stopped paying attention in math Junior year of high school =P

[elof]

I'm in, got an idea about what to play :)

[Tacosnape]

Any statistical output from this that doesn't track the winner of the die roll is completely invalid. You think the die roll matters in Legacy NOW? Without Force it'll matter tenfold more.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Any statistical output from this that doesn't track the winner of the die roll is completely invalid. You think the die roll matters in Legacy NOW? Without Force it'll matter tenfold more.

agreed.

[Forbiddian]

The people who argue Legacy without Force Will would be better are dumb, why do we need to go through all this work to prove that?

And at any rate, they're usually arguing over cost/availability issues, not any power balance.

[herbig]

This is a really dumb idea.

[Phoenix Ignition]

This is a really dumb idea.

Would have been a better title to change this thread to.

[Holiday]

If this tournament actually did happen, it seems to me like everyone would either run a combo deck or run a deck is designed to beat combo, (running cards like chalice/daze/revenous trap/discard/etc.)

[Nihil Credo]

The people who argue Legacy without Force Will would be better are dumb, why do we need to go through all this work to prove that?
We don't need to do anything. If PoM et al. want to try this, hey, more power to them, we get an interesting anecdote with zero effort.

[Pastorofmuppets]

We don't need to do anything. If PoM et al. want to try this, hey, more power to them, we get an interesting anecdote with zero effort.

quite simply, the more people complain about it, the more I want to try it.

[DrJones]

If this tournament actually did happen, it seems to me like everyone would either run a combo deck or run a deck is designed to beat combo, (running cards like chalice/daze/revenous trap/discard/etc.)I imagine some people would even play decks that, while losing to combo, would have pretty good chances against decks designed to beat combo.

[erg-19]

Sounds like fun. I think the right decks could wreck this tourney. And no, not just combo.

[chris_acheson]

Sign me up.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I imagine some people would even play decks that, while losing to combo, would have pretty good chances against decks designed to beat combo.

and then you either luck out or go 50/50. Why would you not play something that has a chance against the whole format?

[DrJones]

and then you either luck out or go 50/50. Why would you not play something that has a chance against the whole format?My comment was a joke about the control > combo > aggro > control; Also, it all depends on the percentages you are expecting from each archtype. If 95% of the format is not combo, playing a deck like Zoo seems like a good option to me.

[dahcmai]

I never liked MWS, but I'd gladly create someone a deck that would be definitely interesting in a format like that.

[Rico Suave]

What is the point? To show how badly the format would need to warp itself in order to survive without Force of Will?

[Pastorofmuppets]

What is the point? To show how badly the format would need to warp itself in order to survive without Force of Will?

pretty much. And to shut up the FoW naysayers.

[Angelfire]

This is a really dumb idea.

Yeah, we don't need to prove the format is better off with FoW, every good player already knows this. Force of Will is one of the most balancing cards in Magic. It balances so many broken things at a fair cost.