[Deck] Sligh

[Sevryn]

If you are already running black, have you considered Blightning?

[Combo Winter]

I haven't considered it mainly because I don't want to run more than 4 3 drops and really like the majus of the moon
.

[mmmetaphor]

When the 2011 core set is release I'm pretty sure I'll be swapping in Leyline of Punishment for Sulfuric Vortex in the sideboard. Seems pretty awesome.

This deck has been bonkers for me in testing lately. Very few things I'm not happy with. At times I think of changing the Smash to Smithereens to Krosan Grip but I love the damage StS provides.

[troopatroop]

When the 2011 core set is release I'm pretty sure I'll be swapping in Leyline of Punishment for Sulfuric Vortex in the sideboard. Seems pretty awesome.

Wow I think that's terrible. Leyline of Punishment is awful. It doesn't do anything. At least Sulfuric Vortex does the job of winning the game against CB-Top or Bant decks. It's card disadvantage, and even if it stops a RWM from gaining life, it's still killing you. Vortex is so much better. Just because the card can be free, doesn't mean it DOES anything!

[mmmetaphor]

Wow I think that's terrible. Leyline of Punishment is awful. It doesn't do anything. At least Sulfuric Vortex does the job of winning the game against CB-Top or Bant decks. It's card disadvantage, and even if it stops a RWM from gaining life, it's still killing you. Vortex is so much better. Just because the card can be free, doesn't mean it DOES anything!

Well I'm excited to test it. It does plenty. Sure it doesn't give you the 2 dmg per turn that vortex does and that's pretty big but in exchange its a turn 0 free play. With a maindeck of 18 land adropping a 3cc consistently isn't a given. This deck is built for speed and tempo, not card advantage. In many ways it sacrifices card advantage for speed. That said the new Leyline seems well worth testing IMO. If it isn't superior to vortex so be it but I for one am excited to try it out.

[overpowered]

Concerning Leyline: Leyline of Punishment is a reactive card that hedges against the opponent's lifegain via Rhox War Monk, Baneslayers, etc.. Sulfuric is a PROactive card that wins the game all by itself if neither player plays another spell while also accomplishing the aforementioned. If you aren't doing more damage than the opponent on average per turn, including Vortex, then clearly your build is suffering from a number of problems that can't be fixed by Leyline. I think the "0 CMC" of the leylines actually hurts the deck as it appeals to a less active game state, something that Sligh hates! Sligh will ALWAYS win the war of attrition as far as life goes, because it runs spells that circumvent combat and minimize interactivity. Regardless, starting the game with 6 cards in hand and that in play is NOT an advantage. And God help you if you mulled into it ;_;

Think of Vortex as a 3 CMC 2 damage burn spell with benefits. It's not horrible. Leyline costs more and turns late game draws of it into time walks for the opponent with no real way to help the game state. At least every Vortex past #1 still adds 2 dmg/turn to the mix.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I completely agree with the dude above me's argument about Sulfuric Vortex versus New Red Leyline. Honestly, the fact that it doesn't deal damage should make it kind of a no-brainer as to which is superior in this kind of deck.

[Combo Winter]

I would never cut vortex for leyline of punishment in my opinion the main reason vortex is played is the clock it provides not the lifegain prevention which is why its seen in the main deck of burn occosionally. Punishment seems like a dead card that i wouldn't even bring in vs a opponent with 4 jitte.

[Jin15]

This is my first post on this forum, but I thought I'd bring this thread back to the top since Sligh has proven to be my favorite Legacy deck to play over the past 4 months or so. My build is a bit more creature-centric than most, but I've found it to work quite well against other aggro decks (Zoo, Goblins, Merfolk, etc.) and have an average goldfish of around turn 4 with the occasional turn 3 win here and there.

It runs the mana curve from the original Sligh list (info on that found here (http://www.classicdojo.org/history/sligh2.html)) and plays quite smoothly I think. The diverse curve plays well against Countertop too in my experience. For those interested, here's the list...


[3 Planeswalkers]
3 Koth of the Hammer

[24 Creatures]
4 Jackal Pup
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Plated Geopede
4 Ball Lightning
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

[10 Spells]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast

[23 Lands]
3 Teetering Peaks
2 Ghitu Encampment
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
10 Mountain


[Sideboard]
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
3 Sulfuric Vortex


So far I've been very happy with the list, and although it's a little unconventional I think the only thing I'd really like to change at the moment is to find a place to fit in 1 more Fireblast. I play a very virtual card advantage oriented version of Burn as well (the only creature being Keldon Marauders) so I wanted this deck to have a distinctly different feel than Burn by playing lots of efficient and well curved creatures with just a handful of the best burn spells to back them up. Unlike my Burn list which runs almost entirely direct damage spells with the only creatures being ones that guarantee damage if they're not countered.
So for me Sligh is like an overwhelmingly creature based version of Burn that lets me play all those cool little red critters that don't fit into Burn. :smile:

[pandaman]

Since this has been necro'd, here's an interesting and possibly applicable list for discussion. Burn with Steppe Lynx?

http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=785 (http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=785)

An interesting, yet minor splash, but with fetchlands already necessary for Grim Lavamancer I suppose it makes sense to throw in a couple of Plateaus and go for Lynx. Seems to have worked for the winner. Thoughts?

P.S. Apologies if this belongs in the Burn thread, but with the amount of creatures I thought it might be discussed here also.

[Mr. Safety]

Concerning Leyline: Leyline of Punishment is a reactive card that hedges against the opponent's lifegain via Rhox War Monk, Baneslayers, etc.. Sulfuric is a PROactive card that wins the game all by itself if neither player plays another spell while also accomplishing the aforementioned. If you aren't doing more damage than the opponent on average per turn, including Vortex, then clearly your build is suffering from a number of problems that can't be fixed by Leyline. I think the "0 CMC" of the leylines actually hurts the deck as it appeals to a less active game state, something that Sligh hates! Sligh will ALWAYS win the war of attrition as far as life goes, because it runs spells that circumvent combat and minimize interactivity. Regardless, starting the game with 6 cards in hand and that in play is NOT an advantage. And God help you if you mulled into it ;_;

Think of Vortex as a 3 CMC 2 damage burn spell with benefits. It's not horrible. Leyline costs more and turns late game draws of it into time walks for the opponent with no real way to help the game state. At least every Vortex past #1 still adds 2 dmg/turn to the mix.

Agreed...but I have tried using Vortex in several instances (most of them successful) and I feel it needs acceleration to hit the board early against some decks. At the time I was using Rite of Flame to get it down turn 2, and against Bant aggro and Rock decks (with Finks) it was an all-star. I've beaten control and tempo decks this way, too, again because it's NOT JUST ANTI-LIFEGAIN, it's a clock, and a damn fast one at that. I'm a big fan of Sulfuric Vortex, even in the maindeck. Rite of Flame has some decent synergy with Kiln Fiend as well, feeding you a free Reckless Charge to him while also providing mana for any additional burn you hope to play the same turn.

Hell, even Everlasting Torment is better than Leyline of Punishment. Free doesn't really matter in this case, you need the card to COUNT. At least Torment can whittle down some of the bigger threats in the format along with the burn (Knight of the Reliquary, Goyf, Tombstalker). Honestly, it's just a strictly worse Sulfuric Vortex though. Again, I think Vortex is king.

[Jin15]

Holy necro Batman!
With good reason though, since I've spent the past few months trying just about every decent creature in mono red history at a CMC of 4 or below in the hope of building what I might find to be an "ideal" Sligh list. After putting a good 40 hours or so worth of testing into the deck at this point I'm extremely pleased with what I've came up with, so I thought I'd take a few minutes to share the list. It might not be the perfect "ideal" list, but for my tastes it's about as ideal as it's going to get with the current pool of available cards.

So, here's the list =)


[23 Creatures]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Jackal Pup
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Ball Lightning

[2 Artifacts/Enchantments]
2 Cursed Scroll

[15 Spells]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
3 Reckless Abandon

[20 Lands]
3 Teetering Peaks
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
9 Mountain


~~~~~~~
Sideboard
~~~~~~~
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
2 Shattering Spree
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Mindbreak Trap



You may find some of the card choices to be a little odd, namely Jackal Pup and Cursed Scroll, but I think they both serve their purposes quite well. Jackal Pup is 2 power for 1 mana, which in itself is good, but the important thing is that he is almost always able to get in 4 damage before being dealt with. Anytime you can pay 1 mana for 4 damage that's a good thing in my book. The other thing that might seem questionable is the choice of Cursed Scroll over other reusable direct damage options like Sulfuric Vortex. Cursed Scroll was chosen for the sole reason that it can target creatures. Because Sligh is a much more creature based deck than Burn it's important to make sure your creatures can get through for as much damage as possible. For instance, using Cursed Scroll to take out an opponent's lone blocker with 2 toughness so your Keldon Marauders can get through for 3 damage.

Finally, on a side note, Reckless Abandon is absolutely ridiculous in this deck and seems to be much more consistent than Price of Progress. When running 12 creatures that would go to the graveyard on their own after attacking (Hellspark Elemental, Keldon Marauders, and Ball Lightning) Reckless Abandon is usually just a 1 mana for 4 damage sorcery that can only be cast during your 2nd main phase. It also gives you something to do with your Jackal Pup or Goblin Guide in the Zoo matchup around turn 5 or 6 (if the game goes that long, which it generally wont) once the opponent's larger creatures are blocking the way and preventing your little guys from attacking.
In short, Reckless Abandon is just plain awesome if your creature base is big enough to support it.

[Justin]

Better 2/1 one-drops have been printed since Jackal Pup, including Tattermunge Maniac. I prefer a while splash for Steppe Lynx. Cursed Scroll was once great in Sligh, but it's too slow nowadays. You're better off running more burn spells. Here's my list:

// Lands
3 [APL] Mountain
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [R] Plateau
1 [SHM] Plains

// Creatures
4 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
4 [ROE] Kiln Fiend
4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx
4 [PLC] Keldon Marauders

// Spells
3 [VI] Fireblast
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
3 [OD] Reckless Charge
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [RAV] Lightning Helix
4 [CFX] Path to Exile

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [EX] Price of Progress

[Jin15]

Nice Boros list Justin! I'd cut a couple spells for 2 more land if it was me, and drop the Lavamancer count to 3 rather than 4, but it still looks really good overall =)

Regarding the Jackal Pups, I knew I'd get criticism for running them but there have been many times when other 2/1 for R creatures (namely Tattermunge Maniac) would have lost me the game when having a Jackal Pup instead let me win. Case in point...

2 weeks ago or so I was playing in a tournament against Team America. I had him down to 2 life, had no cards in hand, and a Jackal Pup as the only non-land permanent on my side of the field. On his side of the field there was a Tombstalker and nothing else, he had a couple cards in hand. At this point I was just waiting to top deck a burn spell or hasty creature, and after waiting a couple turns I finally top decked a Hellspark Elemental. I played it, he countered it, then I unearthed it and swung with both the Jackal Pup and Hellspark Elemental for victory.
In this situation if the Jackal Pup had been a Tattermunge Maniac instead he would have been forced to attack right into the Tombstalker and I likely would not have won that game. I've encountered many similar situations in other matchups as well, so I personally feel that not having to attack each turn is worth the risk of taking some damage if he gets hit. Yes, Jackal Pup is downright awful in the Zoo matchup and in the mirror, but in every other match he's gold in my book.

As far as the Cursed Scroll goes, again, it's just a personal choice. I feel it helps my creatures get through if things go bad and we go the late game, but others may prefer Sulfuric Vortex or some other reusable direct damage. I just think that Scroll is the most versatile choice after Lavamancer (thus I run a 3/2 split of Grim Lavamancer and Cursed Scroll).

[Klavion]

I've noticed there has not been many mentions of the classic sligh creature Kird Ape (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Kird%20Ape) in this thread. Anyone care to share their thoughts on why the ape is not making your lists. If you can play a taiga (http://deckbox.org/mtg/taiga) or similar I would have thought this is a little better than Jackal Pup (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Jackal%20Pup).

Also I've been running a mono red sligh deck with taigas for the apes which utilises Land Grant (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Land%20Grant) rather than fetch lands to find the Taigas. Searching up your dual land for free (or almost) seems like a great deal to me. It also plays nicer than fetch lands with Ankh of Mishra (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Ankh%20of%20Mishra) if you favour that build.

The other card I find oddly missing from the thread is Fork (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Fork), or the arguably better version Reverberate (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Reverberate). Anyone care to share why you are not running this? My guess is that it is a dead draw if you top deck it. Otherwise it seems so strong to me, turns your Fireblast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Fireblast)s into 8 damage which can win from nowhere.

[moobs]

I definitely agree the fork/fireblast play is a great finisher. However, after playing with forks for a little while I began to realize that forking the fireblast was really the only worthwhile play to make. Forking the lightning bolt or chain lightning isn't the most efficient of plays. You're getting 6 damage for three mana. If you had replaced the fork with even a card like shock, then you would have been getting 5 damage for 2 mana. Or 2.5 damage per mana spent opposed to 2 damage per mana spent with fork.

Maybe you could keep it to pull off a good finishing move I guess. In my opinion I just think the more efficient strategy is to go without the fork

[Angelfire]

Obviously Kird Ape is better than Jackal Pup. Running Taiga for just Kird Ape however is a mistake. The green splash should only be utilized if you own Goyfs. Land Grant is also weaker than fetches for a number of reasons: you can't grab Mountains, it can be countered and revealing your hand gives your opponent free information (I would lose 1 life over revealing my hand nearly every time). It seems to have some synergy with Kiln Fiend, but if your opponent can calculate what you are going to do it makes the cons outweigh the pros.

Reverberate is fairly solid, but it will often sit in your hand and is fairly weak without Fireblast (even then it is not amazing or even Price of Progress good). It is often tough to cast a burn spell and Reverberate it in the same turn 3-4 mana is kind of a lot. It also suffers from "fucking awful to topdeck" syndrome. I win a lot of games with Sligh peeling cards off the top.

My Sligh deck runs 14-16 Creatures (4 Guide, 3-4 Lavamancer, 4 Kiln Fiend, 3-4 Keldon Marauders). I would like to include more critters, but I feel there are none really worth filling a slot over a burn spell with. I might try out the Black splash for Dark Confidant (and some sideboard options like Dystopia.

[Hanni]

I was very involved with the development of Sligh when Wild Nacatl saw print, because that guy does so much for the archetype. Unfortunately, players identified with Zoo instead, and this deck fell off the face of the earth. Anyway, I just wanted to post my most recent list.

R/g/w Naya Sligh

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [R] Taiga
2 [R] Plateau
2 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
4 [AN] Kird Ape
4 [ALA] Wild Nacatl
4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx

// Spells
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [ROE] Forked Bolt
4 [TSP] Rift Bolt
4 [FD] Magma Jet
4 [VI] Fireblast

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [EX] Price of Progress
SB: 4 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 3 [UL] Erase
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle

I honestly feel this deck has better matchups against the format than Zoo does, but whatever. It's a blast to play, and I just wanted to share my list with the world.

[nedleeds]

[23 Creatures]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Jackal Pup
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Ball Lightning

[2 Artifacts/Enchantments]
2 Cursed Scroll

[15 Spells]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
3 Reckless Abandon

[20 Lands]
3 Teetering Peaks
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
9 Mountain


With mono red and no landfall you should ditch the fetches and run Ankh of Mishra ... it's an insane fisting, 'Get Fireblasted to drop and use a fetch'. Wasteland might make more sense as well.

[Infinitium]

@Hanni: Wouldn't Lavamancer > Ape in that list? Having 12 1-drop beaters already gives enough redundancy imo, you run enough fetches/burn to support it and it isn't as irrelevant later on in the game. Also makes the Tribal matchup even better, which is relelvant against decks trying to meta against you.

[Shtriga]

I might try out the Black splash for Dark Confidant (and some sideboard options like Dystopia.

Could you post your idea for such a list with Bobs please?

[Hanni]

@Hanni: Wouldn't Lavamancer > Ape in that list? Having 12 1-drop beaters already gives enough redundancy imo, you run enough fetches/burn to support it and it isn't as irrelevant later on in the game. Also makes the Tribal matchup even better, which is relelvant against decks trying to meta against you.

Grim Lavamancer is slow, which is the same reason I don't run Tarmogoyf either. Grim Lavamancer provides alot of reach and staying power for decks that aren't capable of dealing 20 damage before they crap out. However, he is not mana effecient for what Sligh wants; he costs RR for 2 damage, RRR for 4 damage, etc. Kird Ape only costs 1 mana.

I used to play my Sligh list with 12 creatures (all of the ones in the list I posted, w/o Kird Ape) and 27 burn spells, but I found that running 16 creatures gives me a more consistent early game. I want to see at least 1 creature in my hand, but I'm happy seeing 2-3. Dropping a Nacatl turn one, followed by a Goblin Guide and Kird Ape on turn two, allows me to put alot of pressure on my opponent and overwork their spot removal. By the time they are capable of handling my early assault, whether that be with a fat Goyf or a Firespout or whatever, my opponent is well within burn range.

The creature to burn spell ratio I feel is perfect, the curve is absolutely perfect, and I feel that 16 1cc creatures gives me enough consistency in the early game to lay down the aggressive early creature rush that wins Zoo games. Kird Ape may suck in the mid-late game, but he's much better than Grim Lavamancer in the early game, and I run more than enough inevitability (burn) to seal the game in the mid-late as long as my early creature rush was consistent. This deck is much different from Zoo in that regard; many Zoo lists run 4 Lightning Bolt and 3 Chain Lightning as their only burn spells. I play 24.

As far as the Tribal matchup goes, yes Grim Lavamancer is good against them, but is 100% entirely unecessary. This deck ass rapes Goblins and Merfolk like it's nobody's business, without Grim Lavamancer.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I was very involved with the development of Sligh when Wild Nacatl saw print, because that guy does so much for the archetype. Unfortunately, players identified with Zoo instead, and this deck fell off the face of the earth. Anyway, I just wanted to post my most recent list.

R/g/w Naya Sligh

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [R] Taiga
2 [R] Plateau
2 [UNH] Mountain

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
4 [AN] Kird Ape
4 [ALA] Wild Nacatl
4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx

// Spells
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [ROE] Forked Bolt
4 [TSP] Rift Bolt
4 [FD] Magma Jet
4 [VI] Fireblast

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [EX] Price of Progress
SB: 4 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 4 [UL] Erase
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle

I honestly feel this deck has better matchups against the format than Zoo does, but whatever. It's a blast to play, and I just wanted to share my list with the world.

I like the list, it's kind of similar of a Boros Sligh build I had been tinkering around with for a while on MWS a few months ago. There are a couple comments/questions I have though:

-Personally, my testing has made me freaking *hate* Steppe Lynx. In general, you have to use a fetch-land to be able to play him, which right away is one less fetch available to activate his landfall. Also, he's generally about the worst possible thing a Sligh deck can top-deck after turn 3 or 4. And also, with your specific list you could probably get away with cutting 1-2 lands if you replaced Lynx with another beater(s) that are on the same level of efficiency. Basically it's the definition of a 'quick but inconsistent' card, and I have just never liked it. Granted, occasionally he gets ridiculous and two of them can nearly win single-handedly if they're unopposed and you have enough fetches to abuse it, but I've just never found him to be consistent enough to be worthwhile.

-How is Forked Bolt working out? It seems interesting, but given the general lack of creatures with 1 toughness in the format these days (they're around, like somewhat, but besides a select few like MoM or Bob they're not really the ones that you need to be concerned with removing anyways) I don't know if maybe something else would be better. I've found Lightning Helix to be pretty underrated in this format, since a six point life swing is relevant against not only aggro but a fair number of combo decks as well. I don't think it's four-of material, but I think it's worth considering.

-Speaking of not four-of worthy but potentially worthwhile, I kind of like Jotun Grunt as like a two-of for Sligh decks containing white. He's not the most consistent creature available, but I find that I can usually keep him around for two turns without much hassle, and he has the obvious side benefits of shrinking Goyfs and occasionally doing meaningful things to screw your opponent's grave. I know most Legacy players have long-since written him off, and I've heard most of the arguments. But the fact is I like him in about 95% of the games in which I drop him, at least with Sligh.

-As far as your sideboard, I like Erase but I've always found Serenity to be such a beating that it's worth it to pack one or two. Maybe -1 Erase, +1 Serenity? It also gives you another out to Chalice of the Void, which I'm sure you already realize kind of rapes your list.

As far as the "how can I recommend running 2 of's in a Sligh deck" argument which I suspect someone will raise, my thought on it is this: the business cards in a Sligh deck, as long as they fulfill the same function of getting in there for large amounts of early-game damage, at roughly equivalent levels of efficiency and consistency, are roughly interchangeable. IE, Jotun Grunt sucks in this deck as a four-of (because having too many of them reduces their consistency in being able to do damage, because you probably won't be able to pay multiple cumulative upkeeps). But my experience has shown him to be pretty damn good as a two-of.

Anyhow, always nice to see some well-thought-out Sligh lists.

[Hanni]

-Personally, my testing has made me freaking *hate* Steppe Lynx. In general, you have to use a fetch-land to be able to play him, which right away is one less fetch available to activate his landfall. Also, he's generally about the worst possible thing a Sligh deck can top-deck after turn 3 or 4. And also, with your specific list you could probably get away with cutting 1-2 lands if you replaced Lynx with another beater(s) that are on the same level of efficiency. Basically it's the definition of a 'quick but inconsistent' card, and I have just never liked it. Granted, occasionally he gets ridiculous and nearly wins single-handedly if he's unopposed, but I've just never found him to be consistent enough to be worthwhile.


Every creature in my deck, besides Goblin Guide (sometimes) is a worthless topdeck after turn 3 or 4. I want to play creatures on turn 1 and turn 2. By turn 3 or 4, I'm done with casting creatures and concerned with flinging burn at my opponent's face. Steppe Lynx may be the worst of the creature line-up to topdeck turn 3-4, but he's the best creature to cast on turn 1. I run 14 fetchlands, and it's rare when I can't make him a 4/5 early game. Two swings with him is 8 damage for 1 mana invested; there is simply no better replacement. Steppe Lynx is why my deck is so aggressive.

Basically, Steppe Lynx is inconsistent in the mid-late game, where I don't care anyway. When it comes to my creatures, I'm only concerned about which ones are good in the first couple of turns, and Steppe Lynx wins that award hands down. By the mid-late game, I become a Burn deck.


-How is Forked Bolt working out? It seems interesting, but given the general lack of creatures with 1 toughness in the format these days (they're around, but besides a select few like MoM or Bob they're not really the ones that you need to be concerned with removing anyways) I don't know if maybe something else would be better. I've found Lightning Helix to be pretty underrated in this format, since a six point life swing is relevant against not only aggro but a fair number of combo decks as well. I don't think it's four-of material, but I think it's worth considering.


With all of the Cursecatcher's, Mother of Runes, Goblin Lackey's, Noble Hierarch's, and Dark Confidant's running around, Forked Bolt is awesome. I want another 1cc burn spell for curve reasons, and Forked Bolt is simply the next best thing after Rift Bolt. It's ability to kill a 1/1 and still do 1 damage to the opponent is nice, and it costing 1 mana is nice. I considered Arc Trail for this spot as well, and some sort of split is possible, but I like how Forked Bolt is more aggressive (costs half as much). I'd honestly run Shock here if I had no better 1cc burn option, but since Forked Bolt is pretty sweet, I'm running that instead.


-Speaking of not four-of worthy but potentially worthwhile, I kind of like Jotun Grunt as like a two-of for Sligh decks containing white. He's not the most consistent creature available, but I find that I can usually keep him around for two turns without much hassle, and he has the obvious side benefits of shrinking Goyfs and occasionally doing meaningful things to screw your opponent's grave.


2cc creatures means he's not coming down until turn 2 at the earliest (consuming my entire turn 2 worth of mana), and is swinging on turn 3 at the earliest. I played with Goyf for a long time, and while Jotun Grunt is arguably better than Goyf in a Sligh deck (typically bigger on turn 2), he's still 2cc, and is still too slow for the deck. I'd sooner run Grim Lavamancer than Jotun Grunt, and I've already explained why I don't run Grim Lavamancer either.


-As far as your sideboard, I like Erase but I've always found Serenity to be such a beating that it's worth it to pack one or two. Maybe -1 Erase, +1 Serenity?


Serenity is also a very good option. I simply chose Erase because blowing up problematic Enchantments for 1 mana is pretty effecient, but I can see the power of Serenity being more valuable in certain matchups.

[Infinitium]

What enchantments in particular are Erase for? Also looking closer at your list why is your reasoning behind not maindecking PoP?

[Hanni]

What enchantments in particular are Erase for? Also looking closer at your list why is your reasoning behind not maindecking PoP?

Leyline of Sanctity, Circle of Protection: Red, etc. It's also not bad against an early Counterbalance, if the opponent doesn't blind reveal a 1cc spell.

Price of Progress is bad against some matchups and good against others. It doesn't target creatures, and it's much better left in the sideboard.

[kiblast]

Leyline of Sanctity, Circle of Protection: Red, etc. It's also not bad against an early Counterbalance, if the opponent doesn't blind reveal a 1cc spell.



Top's second ability always fills the role of the 1-drop. Also Brainstorm can put a Stp on top from hand. I never found myself to play against a Countertop player who firstly drops balance and then casts Top, it is very very rare imho.

[Hanni]

Top's second ability always fills the role of the 1-drop. Also Brainstorm can put a Stp on top from hand. I never found myself to play against a Countertop player who firstly drops balance and then casts Top, it is very very rare imho.


CounterTop players don't always get a CounterTop lock online by turn 2. I often race my CounterTop opponent's; they are dead before the assemble their CounterTop lock. Also, CounterTop players don't always get a Top into play before Counterbalance. Erase is not bad to pre-emptively destroy a Counterbalance if they don't have a Top in play. However, I usually don't board in Erase against CounterTop anyway, I board in Pithing Needle. Needle on Top is the stronger play, especially if I have a Goblin Guide in play (I get to see the top card of their library when I attack).

EDIT: I Cut an Erase from my SB for another Pithing Needle.

[kiblast]

CounterTop players don't always get a CounterTop lock online by turn 2. I often race my CounterTop opponent's; they are dead before the assemble their CounterTop lock. Also, CounterTop players don't always get a Top into play before Counterbalance. Erase is not bad to pre-emptively destroy a Counterbalance if they don't have a Top in play. However, I usually don't board in Erase against CounterTop anyway, I board in Pithing Needle. Needle on Top is the stronger play, especially if I have a Goblin Guide in play (I get to see the top card of their library when I attack).

EDIT: I Cut an Erase from my SB for another Pithing Needle.

That's what I mean, as you have various options to destroy CounterTop lock and Erase seems not the best one. I would not take the risk of playing Erase as a sideboard response to CounterTop because they are vulnerable only with a lone Counterbalance in play, while Pithing needle is better as it does'nt need to have them drop Counterbalance to affect their gameplan. I agree that Needle helps a lot with Goblin Guide too, in play, seeing those flows of lands going in opponent's hand is not good.

[FieryBalrog]

Steppe Lynx is nuts and is one of the reasons this kind of deck has potential at all (with shoutouts to Nacatl and Goblin Guide). W for 4-8 damage is amazing, and he rarely gets less than 4 damage in but will often get more.

[ScatmanX]

Hanni:
I really liked HungrylkeaLion's Sligh/fast Zoo list, and really liked yours too.
Have a question:
Have you tried 2off Reckless Charge?
When I tested his list, it was the card I most wanted to see in my oppening... it also turns creature drawn turn 4-later into treats...
I really think this deck has potential to use it...
Nothing better than T1 Guide, T2 Linx, Fetchland, Charge it.
I know it sounds like magic Christmas land, but it happens....

[Hanni]

I don't like Reckless Charge. It's way too conditional for my tastes. My Goblin Guide's already have Haste, and the Haste doesn't do anything for the creature I cast on turn 1. It's even worse when you get 2-for-1'd by any sort of removal. The Flashback is nice, but I'd rather run more burn. Burn is consistent damage and it can target opposing creatures.

[Justin]

Reckless Charge can be good in Sligh, but it depends on the build. It's one of those cards that that doesn't look so good when you view it in the abstract, but you can appreciate it once you have tested it. Reckless charge is really good with Keldon Marauders, for example, because it can give them an extra swing (as a 6/3). It's also pretty sick with Kiln Fiend.

Here's another example of what you can do with Reckelss Charge:
Turn One: Land, Steppe Lynx, go
Turn Two: Tap land for another Steppe Lynx, play a fetchland and crack it, cast Reckless Charge on your "sick" Lynx, swing with a 4/5 and a 7/5.

Of course, this is just one example. If you test the card, you will find that it has other nice uses.

[Muradin]

I found Smash to Smithereens very good as a sideboard card against decks featuring Jitte, Chalice (Aether vial), Trinisphere, Zuran Orb and other cards...

At least it has been better for me than Shattering Spree.

[Mr. Safety]

I am testing Reckless Charge x3 in my naya sligh list currently...it's the real deal, make no mistake. The ability to get a turn 1 dude, then a turn 2 dude AND play Reckless Charge means you can assemble upwards of 6-11 damage on turn 2. If you got a Goblin Guide on turn 1, you may actually have them in single digits for life by turn 2. This gives the speed neccessary for racing faster combo decks.

I think in order to have an effective sligh list, you need a minimum of Wild Nacatl x4 and Steppe Lynx x4. I'm not sure if you want Goblin Guide if you have Reckless Charge in the mix, but it's probably the fastest 1 drop in the game with it's haste factor.

What I really like about Reckless Charge is that you can 'sandbag' your fetchlands beyond the 3 lands in play you'll need, and when Lynx shows up as a 'dissapointing' topdeck in the mid-game, RC can step in. You pop off any excess fetchlands and make the thing a 7/5 attacking monster.

Kiln Fiend or no Kiln Fiend? Just curious if anyone has had any experience lately with a mono-red or splashed deck with Fiend.

[Justin]

I still play Kiln Fiend in my Sligh deck, but I recently cut it from four to three. Fiend is extremely nasty when it hits. It's a 7/2 by just casting one Reckless Charge and can get a lot bigger than that. It will often hit for 10+ damage. I think it's a better two drop in this kind of deck than Goyf. There are a few problems with it. I found that I'm not connecting with it as much as I would like because it's a real lightning rod for removal spells. Also, it's not a very good late top deck if you don't have any sorceries or instants to cast. It's usually not a very great turn two play, unless it can find a way to avoid removal. Ideally, you will have a one drop creature on turn one. Then two one-drops on turn two (either two creatures, or one creature and a spell). Then Kiln Fiend comes down on turn three, hopefully with a third land and a reckless charge. Also, hopefully, the opponent spent his countermagic and removal on some of your earlier stuff and can't deal with the Kiln Fiend. If you spend two mana on Kiln Fiend on turn two and it gets taken out, you've slowed your deck down a lot. In the later turns, as I said Kiln Fiend becomes pretty poor.

[kicks_422]

That's a lot of thinking going on right there. In my years of playing Sligh, all I thought about was how to deal the maximum damage with the cards I had in hand. Your opponent should be doing most of the thinking, in response to what you are doing.

[Justin]

It's not really a lot of thinking, just a lot of explaining. I can sum it up very easily. If you are playing an opponent who is not playing much spot removal, drop Kiln Fiend on turn two and pump him as much as you can to do max damage (possibly even lethal) on turn three. If your opponent plays a lot of spot removal, hold Kiln Fiend back until turn three and drop a couple one-drops on turn two instead. That way, you increase the chances of connecting with him later. It's that simple.

[tbig202]

My take on mono red

CREATURES

4 Kiln Fiend
4 Goblin Guide
3 Keldon Marauders
3 Grim Lavamancer

SORCERY'S

4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike

INSTANTS

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast

ARTIFACTS

4 Ankh of Mishra

LANDS

18 Mountains

SIDE BOARD

2 Vexing Shusher
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Flame Javelin
3 Pyroblast
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Tormod's Crypt

I have been playing this mono red list for about a year now and have had decent success with it. The biggest difference between my rdw and most other rdw decks is two cards. The first card is kiln fiend, this card is pretty much the game winner every time for me. It lets you use your burn spells on creatures while still getting threw for the same damage you would with just playing a burn spell targeting your opponent and if your opponent doesn't have any creatures and no removal you pretty much auto win with kiln fiend, and also if your opponent drops white leyline it allows you to still cast your burn and get threw with the kiln fiend for the same damage your burn spell would of done. And the second card is Ankh of Mishra, this card is pretty much good against every deck in the format because pretty much every deck but mono red runs fetches so every time they fetch they are taking 5 so its pretty much like your opponent is starting at 10 life which is pretty much as good as it gets for burn. The rest of the list is pretty much the stock burn list that has been played for ever.

Now for the side board i have a pretty unconventional sideboard but for a vary valid reason. lets go threw the cards one by one and talk about what they come in against and why.

Vexing Shusher- I always bring in this guy against merfolk and against counterbalance which is my worst match up but if i land this guy for a couple of turns it makes the match up a lot better for me.

Ratchet Bomb- I just added this card to my side board and have not regretted it i feel like i bring in this card about 80 percent of the time. Its really good against decks that run aether vial like goblins, merfolk, and black white. It also makes my counterbalance match up slightly better to its pretty much reds only "enchantment" removal and its so versatile.

Flame Javelin- I usually bring in this card against decks that run Rhox War Monk because its pretty much my only way to deal with it besides Pyroblast. Also its another one of the cards i bring in against counterbalance because unless they have a counter in hand its one of the only spells there deck can't counter.

Pyroblast- This one is pretty much self explanatory pretty much if i see blue i bring in all three.

Sulfuric Vortex- I bring in this card alot against black white due to them having jitte, Sword of Fire and Ice, and Swords to Plowshares so they cant Sword there own guy to not loose. Also this card is vary good against decks with Rhox War Monk and it is vary good at keeping Jace under control.

Tormod's Crypt- This ones pretty self explanatory, any deck that counts on its grave yard like dredge and sometimes against decks with Grim Lavamancer they come in.

I hope after people see my list they will see that rdw could be a tier one deck with the side board package i run.

[Mr. Safety]

I still play Kiln Fiend in my Sligh deck, but I recently cut it from four to three. Fiend is extremely nasty when it hits. It's a 7/2 by just casting one Reckless Charge and can get a lot bigger than that. It will often hit for 10+ damage. I think it's a better two drop in this kind of deck than Goyf. There are a few problems with it. I found that I'm not connecting with it as much as I would like because it's a real lightning rod for removal spells. Also, it's not a very good late top deck if you don't have any sorceries or instants to cast. It's usually not a very great turn two play, unless it can find a way to avoid removal. Ideally, you will have a one drop creature on turn one. Then two one-drops on turn two (either two creatures, or one creature and a spell). Then Kiln Fiend comes down on turn three, hopefully with a third land and a reckless charge. Also, hopefully, the opponent spent his countermagic and removal on some of your earlier stuff and can't deal with the Kiln Fiend. If you spend two mana on Kiln Fiend on turn two and it gets taken out, you've slowed your deck down a lot. In the later turns, as I said Kiln Fiend becomes pretty poor.

Chrome Mox? I'm toying with 2 in my list ATM (along with Shrapnel Blast). This allows for potentially a turn 1 Fiend. Rite of Flame does the same, but Rite of Flame takes up too many non-land slots. Mox can essentially replace lands, and if you're inclined to use Sulfuric Vortex maindeck (like me!) then multiples are great fodder for Mox.

[boneclub24]

I realize RDW isn't the same as Sligh, but I feel they are similar enough.

Land: 20
16 Mountain
4 Wasteland

Creatures: 20
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Goblin Guide

Spells: 20
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
4 Price of Progress

This is a list I am finding great success with.

[Justin]

Chrome Mox? I'm toying with 2 in my list ATM (along with Shrapnel Blast). This allows for potentially a turn 1 Fiend. Rite of Flame does the same, but Rite of Flame takes up too many non-land slots. Mox can essentially replace lands, and if you're inclined to use Sulfuric Vortex maindeck (like me!) then multiples are great fodder for Mox.

Chrome Mox is an interesting idea, as well as other accelerated such as Rite of Flame, Simian Spirit Guide, etc. I am skeptical, however, about using mana accelerators that lead to card disadvantage in this type of deck. Sligh is a deck that can run out of gas pretty quickly and needs all the cards it can get. For example, if you imprint a red instant/sorcery on the Crome Mox to accelerate out the Fiend, that is one less spell that you have to pump him.

[TheArchitect]

Chrome Mox is an interesting idea, as well as other accelerated such as Rite of Flame, Simian Spirit Guide, etc. I am skeptical, however, about using mana accelerators that lead to card disadvantage in this type of deck. Sligh is a deck that can run out of gas pretty quickly and needs all the cards it can get. For example, if you imprint a red instant/sorcery on the Crome Mox to accelerate out the Fiend, that is one less spell that you have to pump him.

This is true, there is no good reason to use mana accel in RDW/burn/sligh. All they do is cause card disadvantaged. They are also more useless than lands when your in topdeck mode (which you will get to much faster when you are essentially discarding a card just to play another a turn faster).

Grim Lavamancer and no fetchlands? Goblin guide is the best turn 1 drop, but if you don't draw him and have only the lavamancer but no fetchs you can't even start using him till turn 3 or 4.

I have not tested wasteland because it seems like a really bad choice. 90% of the spells your playing cost ONLY red mana so the fact that wasteland taps for a colorless is useless. If your going to run wastelands and 16 mountain your essentially just running 16 lands.

One of the best things about this archtype of decks is that it creates virtual card advantage. Their FoW just sits in their hand cause its not worth discarding 2 cards and paying a life to counter a 3 damage coming to face. Their swords to plowshares is a waste of mana just to be used on a keldon maurader who's going to get damage in no matter what. While every single card in your hand is guaranteed damage and does not need to interact with other cards to be effective. When you start using things like shrapnel blast, reckless charge, chrome mox, and kiln friend you lose that huge advantage of virtual card advantage. A shrapnel blast in hand with no artifact is useless, if they FoW your blast they 2 for one you, getting your artifact too. Ya sure kiln fiend CAN do a lot of damage but if you keep a bad hand because you think you can do alot of damage with him and they counter him or swords him then you have nothing, where if he was just another bolt or 2 drop creature like maruader or hellspark he would be guaranteed damage and their swords and FoW would sit in their hand, useless to them.

I suppose if thats the path you wish to take with your deck then so be it but your sacrificing consistency and virtual card advantage for what would be speed only if you were just fishbowling.

[TheShaun]

I agree on wasteland, but I think a deck running wasteland + ankh of mishra has some real potential. Can even go old school sligh with something like pillage or avalanche riders to amplify it. This seems to be taking the deck in a bit of a different direction though.

[tbig202]

Ya I am going to try 3 waste but ankh should be in every rdw as long as it doesnt run fetch lands.

[boneclub24]

Grim Lavamancer and no fetchlands? Goblin guide is the best turn 1 drop, but if you don't draw him and have only the lavamancer but no fetchs you can't even start using him till turn 3 or 4.

I have not tested wasteland because it seems like a really bad choice. 90% of the spells your playing cost ONLY red mana so the fact that wasteland taps for a colorless is useless. If your going to run wastelands and 16 mountain your essentially just running 16 lands

Well, it goes back to the virtual card advantage. I open myself up to Stifle and other cards like it if I am forced to use a fetchland as a 1st or 2nd land drop, whereas with Wasteland I can choose when to use it to my advantage, being able to play around Stifle and co. My graveyard fills quickly enough anyway, what with Keldon Marauders, Goblin Guide trying with creatures, Mogg Fanatic and various other burn spells. The huge deal with Wasteland is shutting them down for just a bit while continuing the onslaught. It can really make a difference, and I honestly feel like you should try it.

[paeng4983]

here's my currently list for this pie:

15 mountain
3 wasteland

4 ankh of mishra
4 chrome mox

4 lightning bolt
4 chain of lightning
4 lava spike
4 price of progress
4 sharpnel blast
3 Fireblast
3 rift bolt

4 goblin guide
4 grim lavamancer

[tbig202]

I don't think chrome mox is all to necessary. I feel like it needs to be kiln fiend.

[Angelfire]

Could you post your idea for such a list with Bobs please?

It would be something llike:

My List

//Threats
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant

//Burn
4 Manamorphose
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
3 Searing Blaze

//Mana
6 Mountain
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills


A card like Reckless Abandon could also find its way into a list like this. Although I'd want Marauders back in.

For now I'm sticking to the less easy to hate against, less suicidal and more aggressive Mono Red Build. I just went 4-1 and 3-1 in two recent tournaments with it.

[paeng4983]

after a disappointing thursday legacy at eagles' nest
in which i had a record of 0-3 then drop. friday night, i decided to
play at R4 LP (Philippines) (26 Feb 2011) on its every saturday legacy
wherein i used this deck.
the meta was full of COMBO and reanimators and counterTOP-JACE control.
i finished 1st (3-0-1), my matches were (in order):

ANT 2-0 W
CAB-JACE 2-0 W
mono G_infect 2-0 W
elf ball draw

here's the list that i run
12 mountain
8 R_fetches
4 goblin guide
4 keldon marauder
4 hellsprak elemental
4 grim lavamancer
1 ball lightning
4 lightning bolt
4 lava spike
4 rift bolt
4 chain of lightning
4 price of progress
3 fireblast
SB
3 vexing susher
3 pyroblast
2 smash to smithereens
1 molten
3 pyrostatic pillar
3 seering blaze

[Angelfire]

Kiln Fiend Sligh dominates again. On Sunday I went 6-1 winning a 22 person Tournament at That's Entertainment. I also went 3-1 (split top 4) on Thursday at Die Hard Games in Pawtucket,RI.

My List:

//Threats
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kiln Field
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders

//Burn
4 Manamorphose
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
2 Lava Spike

//Mana
12 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Shattering Spree

Report for That's E Tournament.
Disclaimer: I didn't take any notes (only have my life sheets). I played Goblins 4 times so some of these games blurred together.

Round 1 - Goblins (No Vial)

Game 1: I start the tournament with a double Mulligan (no lands in 13 cards). I'm pretty sure he goes turn 1 Lotus Petal into Warren Instigator. I answer with a bolt. I remember killing some combination of more Lackeys and Instigators to keep him from gaining too much tempo. My deck falls behind and he assembles Kiki Jiki, Lightning Crafter, Skirk Prospector and Golbin Warchief. I am forced to Fireblast the Lightning Crafter to prevent taking infinite damage. I kill Kiki soon after and somehow begin to stabilize. His deck draws like shit and I end up burning him out.

Game 2: I think I win this game with bash with Kiln Fiend for 1, he doesn't block with Lackey and I Fireblast and then shoot him with Grim for the game.

Round 2 - Vial Goblins - Ben- (I don't really remember this matchup very much)

Game 1: He gets me to 18. I cast 2-3 Keldon Marauders in this game.
Game 2: I think I got flooded and he crushes me quickly.
Game 3: I think I won this game on the back of Price of Progress for 6 and then either Double Fireblast or another Price.

Round 3 - Vial Goblins - Chris

Game 1: Pretty straight forward. I answer Lackey with bolt and then burn the shit out of him over the next couple of turns. I finish the game at 17 life.

Game 2: I have him at 8. I bash with Keldon Marauders. He doesn't block and goes to mark his life. He then says wait and chooses to chump him with Lackey. I let him have it and I proceed to draw lands the next couple of turns and lose. If my opponent says "I'll take it" and then changes their mind should I be a dick and call a judge? What is the proper protocol here?

Game 3: I draw 7 lands after fetching twice and lose just needing a single bolt effect. This is my only match loss.

Round 4 - Show and Tell +Cascade/Hypergenesis - Joe

Game 1: He asks me if I'm playing the same thing he is. He had played Sligh/Burn a few weeks ago so I reply "I think so". I drop a turn one Mountain into Grim. He goes "Yeah, you aren't playing what I'm playing. His turn one is Trop. At this point I have no idea what he's playing. Turn two I cast Kiln Fiend who eats a Force of Will. On turn 3 or 4 he Cascades into Hypergenesis and drops an Emrakul. I have no permanents in my hand (no fun lol). I then untap and burn him out (Fireblast, Bolt, Bolt). Frown town for him.

Game 2: I drop a turn 2 Kiln Fiend. He does nothing on turn 3 (I assume no fatty in his hand). Turn 3 bash with Kiln Fiend. He says take it. I cast Manamorphose x2 and Lightning Bolt x2. He goes from 18 to -2 :)

Round 5 - UGR Grow (Lorescale Coatl and Quirion Dryad) - Curtis

Game 1: He does close to nothing the first few turns. I burn him down with little resistance.

Game 2: I board in Pyrostatic Pillar with my plan being that if I kill his threats Pillar will rape him. It works out pretty well. Keldon Marauders does some defensive duty blocking a slightly out of control Lorescale Coatl, but he gets worn down by my burn spells.

Top 4 - Two of us don't want to split. So we play it out.

Rematch - Vial Goblins (Chris)

Game 1: Kiln Fiend connects for 13, nuff said.

Game 2: He mulligans to 4. He uses Pyrokinesis to kill kill a Grim and a Keldon Marauders leaving him with no cards in hand and just a lonely Piledriver. I deplete his life total pretty quickly after that.

Final - Turbo Eldrazi - Jeremiah

Game 1: Turn one I Bolt him. Turn two I Manamorphose and he Force of Wills it! This turns out to be a very costly misplay. On turn four I Price of Progress for 8, he Thirsts for Knowledge in response, I Price again. He finds no Force, both resolve and he goes from 16 to 0.

Game 2: My opening hand is something like Grim, Bolt, Price of Progress, Sulfuric Vortex, Manamorphose, Vexing Shusher, One Mountain. I am on the draw and I keep. I don't draw a second land for a few turns and I fall too far behind. I concede when he activates Eye of Ugin with enough mana available to hard cast Emrakul in the same turn. And oh yeah he is at 38, thanks to Primeval Titan and Glimmerpost.

Game 3: This one is for all the marbles. I am dealing him some steady damage, but he gains 2 from Glimmerpost, followed by 3 more life the next turn. I try and get a Sulfuric Vortex in but it gets forced. Kiln Fiend hits play. He starts my next turn at 20. I attack then cast Bolt, Price of Progress (for 8, which resolves), Fireblast and Kiln Fiend connects for 10 damage! This is more than enough damage to kill him.

The deck performed almost exactly as it should. Kiln Fiend does not get the credit nor the respect he deserves. I would say Kiln Fiend is THE most underrated card in Legacy. It is basically Phage for 2 mana.

Props
-My opponents in Rounds 1, 2, 5 and the Finals for being good sports and playing to win, but having fun at the same time (a novel concept). Many of these games felt exactly how games of Magic should feel. Extra props for Curtis and Jeremiah for also being comical and at times slightly ridiculous :)

-Fresh faces (including my opponent in round 1 and the finals). Keep this Legacy community large and strong!

- That's E for drawing a solid turnout, running a smooth tournament (again) and having a great prize structure.

- Price of Progress - This card is simply nuts in Legacy.

- Kiln Fiend - This beast (literally) dealt over 50 damage today.

-Being immune to Wasteland.

- My deck running like a well oiled machine (despite a few hiccups). I actually got flooded more than land screwed despite running 18 lands.

Slops
- My opponents in rounds 3 and 4 for being sore losers. It isn't my fault your deck drew like shit.

- Troll and Toad for being slow with my order. My deck is supposed to be running Searing Blaze!

-People who seem to think Sligh is a "bad" or low tier deck. I would say bad pilots and unideal lists are the only thing holding this deck from being a much higher tier.

- People who act like it is immoral to not split (this is very common). Why should I split if I came to play Magic AND I have good matchups against all three other decks? For the record: Jeremiah and I were the players who didn't want to split and we went 1st/2nd. Hey next time instead of playoffs in sports the teams should just split. I mean why play it out, they clearly had a good season already. There should be a greater stigma against NOT splitting.

[lamp_enterprises]

Angelfire-

How good are the Manamorphose in your list? Are the uses just to increase Kiln Fiend's ability?

What were you planning on cutting for the Searing Blaze?

Thanks for the input.

[Mr. Safety]

Chrome Mox is an interesting idea, as well as other accelerated such as Rite of Flame, Simian Spirit Guide, etc. I am skeptical, however, about using mana accelerators that lead to card disadvantage in this type of deck. Sligh is a deck that can run out of gas pretty quickly and needs all the cards it can get. For example, if you imprint a red instant/sorcery on the Crome Mox to accelerate out the Fiend, that is one less spell that you have to pump him.

I qualified the statement by saying it works with 4x maindeck Sulfuric Vortex. Multiple vortex's are wasted in hand, so exiling one so you can get faster mana isn't a bad move at all. I typically also use obsolete threats for Mox imprinting (like Keldon Marauders and Spark Elemental turns 3-4 on) so the mana can be used to cast burn spells. I am still trying to use Shrapnel Blast in legacy, which is rare, but it gives a little more feasibility to Chrome Mox.

[Angelfire]

Angelfire-

How good are the Manamorphose in your list? Are the uses just to increase Kiln Fiend's ability?

What were you planning on cutting for the Searing Blaze?

Thanks for the input.

I am a big fan of Manamorphose. It is mainly used for pumping Kiln Fiend for "free", but it also acts as food for Grim and as a way to add density to the deck (I see a slightly higher percentage of the cards I want).

I have cut 4 Rift Bolts and 1 Lava Spike for 4 Searing Blaze and 1 Mountain (putting me up to 19 land). Searing Blaze has proven amazing in testing on MWS.

[kiblast]

I'm fairly interested in Sligh, and particularly in builds supporting Kiln Fiend (he's a powerhouse) but I'd really want some more card draw/filtering. That's why I tried '' BobSligh'' wich is basically a Sligh splashing B for Confidants (more cards in hand) and Duress/ Seize/ Inquisition of Kozilek (a bit of protection) and ''HeavyMachine Gun'' wich was (I use past tense because I don't think it's still developed now) some kind of UR Burn with Kiln Fiends and Wee Dragonauts; with a botload of cantrips and Burn spells.
The thing I like most from BobSligh is Confidant, which we all know is huge when hits the table and survives a turn. The things I like most from Heavymachine Gun are Brainstorms and Ponders, and the possibility to play Fire/Ice; F/I allows Kiln Fiend to get through opposing chumpblocker / Goyf / Mother of Runes while pumping our Kiln Fiend and replacing itself. Also, in the first turns, F/I can act as a fast denial source, by killing opponent's Hierarchs and Bops, or by upkeep-tapping their only X colored land. I'ts also a mini Firespout against Goblin and early Merfolks.
That's what I'm testing.

Lands (20) :

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta / Bloodstained Mire
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
1 Mountain
1 Island
4 Wasteland

Creatures (16) :

4 Dark Confidant
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders

Burn Spells (12) :

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Searing Blaze (this card is a bomb as acts easily as Ice 5-8, clearing blocker for Kiln Fiend and providing advantage)

Cantrips and Utilities (12) :

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Fire/Ice

Sideboard (15):

4 Extirpate
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Duress
3 Pyroblast

I know some of you could possibly dislike the fact that is a tricolor deck, and the fact that I'm actually suggesting Brainstorms in a (what has almost always been) a Mono R deck, but I ask you to have a look at this version and let me know what you think about.

[Angelfire]

I like the idea of Bob in Sligh, but the weakening of your mana base and Price of Progress make it a tough decision to make. Adding a third color only further increases these problems.

Other problems:
-Cards like Brainstorm and Ponder are a significant loss of tempo, something Sligh can't really afford.

-Wasteland does not belong in three color Sligh. Sligh needs its mana. 7 lands that don't produce red can make Searing Blaze unplayable and hurt your ability to have turns like Bolt, Bolt, Bolt.

-Fire/Ice and/or Keldon Marauders would be better suited as a burn spell. Fire/Ice seems mediocre compared to the burn spells I'm used to running. Wasteland and Icing lands slows you down just as much as them.

-A deck with heavy removal shuts down your deck. You don't run enough burn spells to reliably race most decks. You also run no protection (Force of Will/Misdirection).

A deck running Kiln Fiend and three colors definitely should be running Manamorphose.

-What are good match ups for your deck? What match ups are improved over a deck like mine (see a few posts above). Your deck gains a vulnerability to nonbasic hate, is significantly slower and worse match ups versus Zoo or any other deck packing lots of removal. Your only chance against combo game 1 seems to be Turn 2 Kiln Fiend, turn 3 Boltx3 bash.

[kiblast]

Brainstorm and Ponder can be a loss of tempo, but provide cards filtering and pump your Fiend as much as Manamorphose. I agree on your point regarding Searing Blaze, as RR is a bit difficult to reach with full set of Wasteland. Fire Ice is a versatile card and with Kiln reaches the max of his utility, please note that F/I is not a burn spell, don't compare it to Bolt. Keldon are cuttable, in fact the first version I built didn't play them and played Daze and/ or Spell Pierce, to fight removals...but then the deck would have looked a bit like a tempo thresh, not sligh. And I'd like to build a Sligh list with UB splash to fulfill the hole of any sligh list: card advantage.

[TheSleeper]

Angelfire what would you replace in your list for Searing Blaze?

[Angelfire]

@kiblast I do agree that card filter is useful, but the drain on mana is rough. Most times kiln fiend bashes and isn't slaughtered by removal I want to spend as much mana as possible on removing blockers and burning them in the dome. I personally feel that a list with bob shouldn't have blue and should include as much burn as possible. Also, no Fireblast and Price of Progress removes a huge level of explosiveness from a standard sligh list. That explosiveness is one of the main reasons this deck competes in Legacy.

@The Sleeper Currently my list runs 4 searing blaze. I essentially cut rift bolt to get them in there. However, I am now considering cutting Marauders to get a full set of Lava Spikes back in the deck. I don't want to bog down my mana with a ton of 2 cost cards.

[boneclub24]

I only own 1 fetchland right now. Are they really worth the investment?

[Angelfire]

I only own 1 fetchland right now. Are they really worth the investment?

Definitely not essential. However, Goblin Guide, Grim, and Chain Lightning are all more than worth the investment.

I went 5-0 and split for first in my last tournament. I would just have played it out but I didn't want to make my friends wait and I had to work later that night. Guide and Price of Progress were the allstars of the night.

Aside from most combo decks, what are Sligh's bad matchups? Are there any decks you guys play where you say to yourself, "I hope I party against Burn/Sligh"? Problematic cards like Chalice and Counterbalance can be answered with board or played around. Life gain is often too slow, made irrelevant by Kiln or Price or answered by Vortex. Almost all of my losses are because of either flooded or land screw.

[TheArchitect]

8+ Fetches are essential if your running lavamancer. Hes really slow without them. Luckily, he is champ, so they are well worth the investment.

[boneclub24]

Aside from most combo decks, what are Sligh's bad matchups? Are there any decks you guys play where you say to yourself, "I hope I party against Burn/Sligh"? Problematic cards like Chalice and Counterbalance can be answered with board or played around. Life gain is often too slow, made irrelevant by Kiln or Price or answered by Vortex. Almost all of my losses are because of either flooded or land screw.

Pretty much anything with Stifle/Naught is an issue. Really hard to race that.

[Angelfire]

8+ Fetches are essential if your running lavamancer. Hes really slow without them. Luckily, he is champ, so they are well worth the investment.

This is false.The only time this deck doesn't have enough food for Grim is when you have two online or the play some kind of graveyard hate. The first couple of turns you should be spending nearly all your available mana on establishing threats or on burn spells. You don't need tho use him turns 1, 2, 3 etc...

Stifle naught is rough, but far from unraceable. My point was more about how resilient this deck is. I had an opponent answer my first 4-5 threats and I still had enough steam to bring him down quickly. I have beaten decks that have gained 5-9 life without vortex. And in my last tournament I even beat turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity lol.

[boneclub24]

This is false.The only time this deck doesn't have enough food for Grim is when you have two online or the play some kind of graveyard hate. The first couple of turns you should be spending nearly all your available mana on establishing threats or on burn spells. You don't need tho use him turns 1, 2, 3 etc...

Alright, that's a weight off my mind lol

I'm gonna try a list with Kiln Fiend for a bit, see how it works for me :)

[TheArchitect]

This is false.The only time this deck doesn't have enough food for Grim is when you have two online or the play some kind of graveyard hate. The first couple of turns you should be spending nearly all your available mana on establishing threats or on burn spells. You don't need tho use him turns 1, 2, 3 etc...

In hands with no goblin guidles turn 1 lavamancer can be a decent play. However, only with fetchlands. With, even just 1 fetch and a burn spell turn 2, you can start using him and get 2 damage out of him every turn. You can get a very high amount of damage out of the single card from playing him on turn with one with the aid of fetches. I'm not saying this is always the best play, in fact far from it, it is more of a safety net. If you have an amazing hand, didn't have to mull, etc, you might not NEED that 6+ damage from the single card cause it will take too many turns and too much mana when you could be playing bolt, fiend, bolt, bolt, bolt. But when you have to mull to 6 or 5, or when you don't get any fiends or guides, grim lavamancer turn 1 can help a lot in the long wrong. Again though, only with fetchlands. I don't really see enough reason NOT to run fetchlands. Pumping KotR or possibly not being able to tap them cause of an untaped wasteland, doesn't really seem like a big enough drawback compared to the gain.

EDIT: I'm a fairly tight budgeted player myself and I would still say they are essential and very well worth the investment. I can't tell you how many times I've been so glad to see fetches in my graveyard to feed the lavamancer, early, mid and late game. Also, fetches are only going to rise in price so if you get them and forever reason don't like them you will only gain from selling/trading them in the future.

[Justin]

Yeah, get the fetches if you want to play Legacy. Fortunately, Zendikar fetches are much cheaper than Onslaught fetches. Pick up Arid Mesa and Scalding Tarn for Sligh. These cards are pretty affordable to buy or trade for.

[Angelfire]

Ok, let me clarify. I never meant to imply they are not worth the investment for playing Legavy, nor did I ever say they are not worth running with Grim. I myself run 6 fetches to feed Grim. I was simply pointing out that you don't NEED them to run the deck. Most times; you, Grim or your opponent dies with extra cards in the yard.

"Pumping KotR or possibly not being able to tap them cause of an untaped wasteland, doesn't really seem like a big enough drawback compared to the gain."

Quick Note: Neither of these are drawbacks of fetches. You can't Wasteland fetches and Knight is only their own graveyard. The drawbacks of fetches are cards like Stifle, Pithing Needle, Aven Mindcensor, Root Maze, Ankh of Mishra and most importantly always losing 1 life. However, this drawback doesn't outweigh the gain of potentially using Grim an absurdly broken amount of times. Deck thinning, while marginal also helps. Oh, and they also allow me to Searing Blaze on my opponents turn :)

Also, if you guys advocating fetches this much only for feeding Grim, you better be running Manamorphose.

[boneclub24]

Okay, well I'll work on fetches, see if any deals come my way.

Mogg Fanatic are under preforming for me, any ideas what I can replace?

[Angelfire]

Okay, well I'll work on fetches, see if any deals come my way.

Mogg Fanatic are under preforming for me, any ideas what I can replace?

See my lists at the top of the page. I haven't run Fanatic since they got rid of damage on the stack.

[Mr. Safety]

Pretty much anything with Stifle/Naught is an issue. Really hard to race that.

Stifle/Naught is nasty...but anything able to pull off a turn 1 Chalice of the Void @ 1 is about as scary as it gets. It turns the deck off in so many ways, it isn't really possible to win game 1. Game 2, bring in your Shattering Sprees and hope for a good draw. Once Trinisphere hits, you can kiss your chances of winning goodbye.

Decks that use this combination: Stompy variants, Staxx variants. These matchups are literally worse than Counter/Top. At least against countertop you can bring in Shusher.

[Jin15]

Just wanted to make a quick post to let you guys (and gals) know that in Minneapolis, MN last thursday night the red deck won! =D
I piloted my Sligh build to Top 4 in a tournament of 27 people and had the most fun I think I've ever had in a Magic tournament. By the time Top 4 was determined though it was quite late into the night so the prize pool was split evenly among them rather than playing it out.

I'd love to be able to give you a complete run down and play by play of the matchups, but unfortunately my memory isn't the greatest so I'll just offer my deck list for review and a brief synopsis of the matchups.


=====
Sligh
=====

[23 Creatures]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Jackal Pup
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Ball Lightning

[2 Artifacts]
2 Cursed Scroll

[15 Spells]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress

[20 Lands]
3 Teetering Peaks
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
9 Mountain

~~~~~~~
Sideboard
~~~~~~~
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
2 Shattering Spree
3 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Mindbreak Trap



Place of Tournament : Monster Den - Minneapolis, MN


Match 1 : Dragon Stompy / Dragonstorm Variant
Game 1 : He draws a ton of land and never plays anything relevant other than a Sword of Fire and Ice. I win on turn 4.
Game 2 : I side out 3x Price of Progress (since I saw no non-basics the previous game) and side in 3x Pithing Needle. I beat face with a Jackal Pup and Keldon Marauders for a few turns, then he Seething Songs out a "Zirilan of the Claw". I strongly sense a Nicol Bolas coming next turn and the only burn spell in my hand is a Fireblast. I can't take the risk of letting him keep the dragon tutor engine so I sac out 2 of my 3 lands and Fireblast the Zirilian. It ended up being the right call, since all he drew after that was a fairly useless Blood Moon and I spent the rest of the game beating face with my 1 drops and finished him off with a few top decked Bolts.

Result : Win, 2-0


Match 2 : Cephlid Breakfast
Game 1 : I knew in advance what deck I was playing against and mulled to 6 to keep a hand with a Goblin Guide and a few Bolts in it. This strategy proves effective when he casts Illusionist and then tries to cast Nomads and I bolt the Illusionist while Nomads is on the stack. He has no Force and I go on to win.
Game 2 : I side out 4x Ball Lightning, 2x Cursed Scroll, and 3x Chain Lightning. I side in 3x Tormod's Crypt, 3x Pithing Needle, and 3x Pyroblast. I mull to 5 and end up with a barely acceptable hand with no hate. He goes off turn 2.
Game 3 : I keep the sideboarding the same and keep a solid opening hand of 7 with a Jackal Pup, a Bolt, a Pithing Needle, and a Tormod's Crypt among other things. I drop the Needle (on Nomads en-Kor) and the Crypt turn one, then ride the Jackal Pup along with some Hellspark Elementals and a Keldon Marauders to victory over the next 4 or 5 turns and finish him with a Fireblast.

Result : Win, 2-1
Current Record : 2-0


Match 3 : CounterTop
Game 1 : He counters stuff in the early game then drops a Moat on turn 4. I draw nothing but creatures and scoop a few turns later when he pulls out the Thopter Sword combo.
Game 2 : I can't quite remember what I sided out aside from the 2x Cursed Scroll, but I do remember siding in 2x Shattering Spree, 3x Pithing Needle, and 3x Pyroblast. I have a strong opening 7 with a Goblin Guide, a Shattering Spree, a Ball Lightning, a few lands, and a good bit of burn. I do my best but he plays Turn 1 Top, Turn 2 Counterbalance, Turn 3 Enlightened Tutor, Turn 4 Circle of Protection : Red and another Top. At this point I am just astonished that anyone is still playing COP : Red and somewhat regret siding out my 2x Cursed Scroll, but alas it wouldn't have mattered since he dropped the Thopter Sword combo a few turns later. I attempt to Shattering Spree his win-cons and am met with Counterbalance, Daze, and Force. I scoop right about then.

Result : Loss, 0-2
Current Record : 2-1


Match 4 : Dredge
Game 1 : The stars aligned and I ended the game on turn three.
Turn 1 - Goblin guide, he's at 18.
Turn 2 - Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt, swing with Guide. He's at 10
Turn 3 - Swing with Guide, Price of Progress for 4 damage, Fireblast. He's dead.
Game 2 : I board out 2x Ball Lightning and 1x Grim Lavamancer and board in 3x Tormod's Crypt. I then mull to 5 and get mana screwed. He kills me on turn 3 by dread returning twice then swings with a returned Golgari Grave Troll, Flame-kin Zealot, and a ton of zombie tokens.
Game 3 : Sideboard stays the same. I keep a good opening hand with a Crypt, a few Jackal Pups and a Ball Lightning, a couple lands, and a Bolt. I drop a Pup and the Crypt turn 1. Eventually around turn 3 I'm forced to crack the Crypt in response to a Ancient Grudge being flash backed from his graveyard, but I did mange to hose a few Bridge From Below and some dredgers, which gave me enough to time to swing through for the win a few turns later.

Result : Win, 2-1
Current Record : 3-1


Top 8 Match : Team America
Game 1 : I keep a reasonable opening 7 with a Goblin guide, a Keldon Maruders, and some burn. He mulls to 5 and wins the dice roll. He starts off by fetching a Tropical Island and passing the turn. I play my Guide and walk right into a Daze. Next turn I drop a Jackal Pup and a Cursed Scroll and pass the turn. I beat for a few turns while he Brainstorms and my Pup, Scroll, and Lavamancer meet an Engineered Exposives a few turns later. I play a Keldon Maruders and am I'm fortunate enough to discard a Hellspark Elemental and a land when he casts Hymn to Tourach the next turn. He gets a Goyf out but has to throw it infront of a Teetering Peaks pumped unearthed Hellspark Elemental and I finish him off with a carefully timed Price of Progress and Fireblast (leaving mana open for Spell Pierce) the next turn.
Game 2 : I side out 2x Cursed Scroll and 1x Ball Lightning for 3x Pyroblast. He keeps his opening 7 and I mull to an acceptable 6 with a few lands, a Jackal Pup, Goblin Guide, Pyroblast, and a Chain Lightning. I drop the Pup on turn 1 and the Guide on turn 2. I play cautiously and make sure not to walk into Daze again as well as holding 2 Grim Lavamancer in my hand rather than playing them in the event he pulls out an Engineered Explosives again. Sure enough, I get him to 10 life and he drops EE at 1. The next turn he cracks it during my attack step and I play the 2 Lavamancers during my second main phase. I kill him next turn with the 2 Lavamancers, a Chain Lightning, and Price of Progress while never having to use the Pyroblast I held all game.

Result : Win, 2-0


Final Record : 4-1, Top 4


All in all it was a great night and I was really pleased to get to Top 4 with Sligh after a good 3 or 4 previous tournaments of finishing in 9th or 10th place, it was quite satisfying (and the prize money wasn't too bad either lol). Right now I'm really pleased with my build and the only changes I'm considering making are swapping out the 2x Cursed Scroll for 2x Sulfuric Vortex. I do really like the fact that the Scroll is colorless (which has been very relevant in past Dredge and Reanimator matchups when I was staring down an Iona) and is unaffected by Pro-Red, COP : Red, and other such problems. It's also nice that it can be cast Turn 1, which has literally won me games against Pox in situations where most of my hand was forcibly discarded by turn 3.
However, I do feel that keeping the mana open for other things in the later game and stopping lifegain may be more relevant that walking around Pro-Red and lower discard vulnerability, so I'm going to give Sulfuric Vortex a try in place of the good old Scrolls. This should also reduce my vunerability to Engineered Explosives and Chalice of the Void @ 1 as well.

That's all for now and I hope you enjoyed my tournament report =)

[boneclub24]

Stifle/Naught is nasty...but anything able to pull off a turn 1 Chalice of the Void @ 1 is about as scary as it gets. It turns the deck off in so many ways, it isn't really possible to win game 1. Game 2, bring in your Shattering Sprees and hope for a good draw. Once Trinisphere hits, you can kiss your chances of winning goodbye.

Decks that use this combination: Stompy variants, Staxx variants. These matchups are literally worse than Counter/Top. At least against countertop you can bring in Shusher.

Shattering Spree deals with the Chalice just fine.


Just wanted to make a quick post to let you guys (and gals) know that in Minneapolis, MN last thursday night the red deck won! =D
I piloted my Sligh build to Top 4 in a tournament of 27 people and had the most fun I think I've ever had in a Magic tournament. By the time Top 4 was determined though it was quite late into the night so the prize pool was split evenly among them rather than playing it out.

I'd love to be able to give you a complete run down and play by play of the matchups, but unfortunately my memory isn't the greatest so I'll just offer my deck list for review and a brief synopsis of the matchups.


=====
Sligh
=====

[23 Creatures]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Jackal Pup
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Ball Lightning

[2 Artifacts]
2 Cursed Scroll

[15 Spells]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress

[20 Lands]
3 Teetering Peaks
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
9 Mountain

~~~~~~~
Sideboard
~~~~~~~
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
2 Shattering Spree
3 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Mindbreak Trap

Nice job man, especially with such an oldschool list :)

How has the Ball Lightning and Jackal Pups preformed? You seem to be in a pretty low aggro meta, so I'm just curious.

[Jin15]

Nice job man, especially with such an oldschool list :)

How has the Ball Lightning and Jackal Pups preformed? You seem to be in a pretty low aggro meta, so I'm just curious.

Thanks! I love the Pups and the Ball Lightning and wouldn't cut them for anything. Those are the 2 main cards that I actually quit playing Burn and started playing Sligh so I could play.
I think Jackal Pup provides an essential secondary 2 power 1 drop other than Goblin Guide and his drawback is much less so than other 1 drops like Tattermunge Maniac or Goblin Cadets. He gives the deck a great deal of consistency and generally gets through for 4 to 6 damage before being dealt with. And hey, 4 to 6 damage for [R] is pretty darn good in my opinion. I also find the Pup to be great Turn 1 play on the draw when playing against any deck playing Blue. I swear that 9 times out of 10 if they have the Daze they'll bust it out if you try to play a Goblin Guide on Turn 1, but I have never once had a Jackal Pup get hit by Daze. He's just not viewed as much of a threat even though he still gets in for 4 to 6 damage in the average game, which while 2 less than a Goblin Guide in most cases is still more efficient than a Lightning Bolt.

The Ball Lightnings are just brutal and probably the most damage you can consistently get out of a 3 CMC card. I think that's whole idea behind Sligh though. The idea of "What is the most damage I can get out of a single card for 3 CMC or less?". It's the reason that Goblin Guide or Jackal Pup is better than Lightning Bolt for a Turn 1 play, since they'll both get through for 4 to 6 damage on average before being dealt with. It's the reason that Keldon Marauders and Hellspark Elemental are better than Incinerate, since in most cases they'll get through for 5 damgage or so rather than 3.
Sligh plays a creature based game that is more vunerable to removal but carries with it the ability to get a lot more damage out of each card than a creatureless Burn list could. I think Ball Lightning is the most perfect example you could find of this philosophy at work. Most of the time he will get through for 6, but there is a good portion of the time where Ball Lightning reads "Destroy target Tarmogoyf, deal 2 damage it it's controller". On the upside of things, that really helps clear the board for your other beaters to get through.

So yeah, old school as they are I love my Jackal Pups and Ball Lightnings and wouldn't play Sligh without them :)

[sligh16]

So yeah, old school as they are I love my Jackal Pups and Ball Lightnings and wouldn't play Sligh without them :)

Dude, congrats for piloting that old school list!! Though I think the first illustration is the best, since it's so cute but deals so much damage =D

[Angelfire]

Keep representing Sligh! Definitely an underrated deck.

A bunch of comments about certain weak cards people seem to continue running in Sligh:

Tattermunge Maniac is far superior to pup. Cursed Scroll is also very outdated. Grim is easier to kill , but is much better early and much easier to use. Ball Lighting is brutal when he works, but in modern legacy too many things answer him.

I prefer cards like Keldon Marauders, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt and Kiln Fiend (he is easier to deal with, but when he connects he wins games right there).

[boneclub24]

Keep representing Sligh! Definitely an underrated deck.

A bunch of comments about certain weak cards people seem to continue running in Sligh:

Tattermunge Maniac is far superior to pup. Cursed Scroll is also very outdated. Grim is easier to kill , but is much better early and much easier to use. Ball Lighting is brutal when he works, but in modern legacy too many things answer him.

I prefer cards like Keldon Marauders, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt and Kiln Fiend (he is easier to deal with, but when he connects he wins games right there).

I agree with the Tattermunge vs Pup thing in an aggro and Dredge heavy meta. However, with a lot of combo decks floating around and some control maybe even, the Pup is viable. Sam goes with Ball Lightning.

I always have the issue with Kiln Fiend in that he generally dies on the spot :/

[Jin15]

Thanks for all the nice comments everyone! :)
It always feels good to beat top tier legacy decks with Sligh and watch the opponent go "what on earth was that pile of jank I just lost to!?" lol

In regards to the Pup versus Tattermunge Maniac issue, I can't even begin to tell you how many times Jackal Pup has won me games that I would have lost if I was playing Tattermunge Maniac instead. What often happens is that the Pup beats for 2 or 3 turns and then the opponent gets out a few larger creatures and he just sits back and waits for the right time to swing again with the aid of some other creatures. For instance, when the opponent has a Tombstalker out and all you have on the field is a Pup or a Maniac the Pup gives you some good options where as the Manaic does not. There's been so many times when a Maniac would have been forced to swing into a the face of a big creature and just die where as with the Pup I can wait until I top deck a hasty creature like Goblin Guide, Hellspark Elemental, or Ball Lighting and then swing with both so that one of them gets through.

In short, after playing with the Pup for a good half a year or so I'd never go back to using the Maniac. The Pup gives you options, and a good percentage of the time those options will mean the difference between winning and losing the game. And unless you see a ton of Zoo or Burn in your meta the Pup's drawback is pretty much negligible IMHO.

[boneclub24]

Thanks for all the nice comments everyone! :)
It always feels good to beat top tier legacy decks with Sligh and watch the opponent go "what on earth was that pile of jank I just lost to!?" lol

In regards to the Pup versus Tattermunge Maniac issue, I can't even begin to tell you how many times Jackal Pup has won me games that I would have lost if I was playing Tattermunge Maniac instead. What often happens is that the Pup beats for 2 or 3 turns and then the opponent gets out a few larger creatures and he just sits back and waits for the right time to swing again with the aid of some other creatures. For instance, when the opponent has a Tombstalker out and all you have on the field is a Pup or a Maniac the Pup gives you some good options where as the Manaic does not. There's been so many times when a Maniac would have been forced to swing into a the face of a big creature and just die where as with the Pup I can wait until I top deck a hasty creature like Goblin Guide, Hellspark Elemental, or Ball Lighting and then swing with both so that one of them gets through.

In short, after playing with the Pup for a good half a year or so I'd never go back to using the Maniac. The Pup gives you options, and a good percentage of the time those options will mean the difference between winning and losing the game. And unless you see a ton of Zoo or Burn in your meta the Pup's drawback is pretty much negligible IMHO.

Okay, I'm testing your Sligh, and it really is working well. It has some issues against TEAM though. Getting Ball Lightning StP'd is a bit of a bummer... also I removed the Cursed Scroll in favor of more burn spells.

The biggest issue I had was against some weird Red Rock deck using Kitchen Finks and Eternal Witness.

[1maarten1]

Keep representing Sligh! Definitely an underrated deck.

A bunch of comments about certain weak cards people seem to continue running in Sligh:

Tattermunge Maniac is far superior to pup. Cursed Scroll is also very outdated. Grim is easier to kill , but is much better early and much easier to use. Ball Lighting is brutal when he works, but in modern legacy too many things answer him.

I prefer cards like Keldon Marauders, Lava Spike, Rift Bolt and Kiln Fiend (he is easier to deal with, but when he connects he wins games right there).

In a kiln fiend version would the new spell from NPH be viable?

Gut Shot (pr)
Instant (U)
Gut Shot deals 1 damage to target creature or player.

Basicly a free lava spike!

[Clark Kant]

Probably not, but that new Probe definitely is. It adds to storm count to pump fiend while telling you when you can overextend and gives you a card. It also feeds Lavamancer and helps you decide if you should aim your burn at him or his critters.

[1maarten1]

Probably not, but that new Probe definitely is. It adds to storm count to pump fiend while telling you when you can overextend and gives you a card. It also feeds Lavamancer and helps you decide if you should aim your burn at him or his critters.

Oh yeah I didnt even see that one yet! Seems like a very strong replacement for Manamorphose to me!

[Clark Kant]

Yeah, if there is room I would run it alongside Manamorphose. It's an other pump spell, feeds Lavamcer and gets you to the good stuff faster.

The list in the op -2 shard volley, -2 keldon marauders, -1 mountain, +1 price of progress, +4 probe.

[1maarten1]

Something like this:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kiln Fiend

Instants
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Manamorphose

Sorceries
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

Lands
12 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Searing Blaze

Thoughts?

I do feel sad about dropping Marauders, maybe -2 lava spike +2 marauders? I have no idea! I cut down on fetchlands to compramise the life loss from Probe.

[Jin15]

Hey again guys and gals! :)
I just wanted to make a quick post to say that I once again played my pretty old shcool Sligh build (list posted towards the top of this page) in a 30 some odd person Legacy tournament tonight and placed in the Top 4 once again! I'm a bit too exhausted to to do a full write up on each matchup, so here's the short version of things...

Round 1 : Merfolk
I win game 1 without too much trouble. He forced a few Keldon Marauders but didn't draw enough dudes to keep up with the quantity of threats I was playing. Game 2 he boards in Spell Peirce (I board in 3x Pyroblast) and I spend the whole game dropping creature based threats and dominate the field. I finish him off with Cursed Scroll and Grim Lavamancer. I think the Lavamancer is really key in the fish matchup.

Result : 2-0, Win


Round 2 : Merfolk
Fish again! This was pretty much a repeat of Round 1 except for game 1 in which he vialed in Kira, Great Glass-Spinner on turn 3 to fizzle one of my bolts aimed at a Lord then dropped 3 Lords in a row and pretty much beat my face in. Game 2 and 3 were wins for me, with no Kira anywhere to be seen and Cursed Scroll + Grim Lavamancer once again being golden at keeping the field clear.

Result : 2-1, Win


Round 3 : Landstill
This matchup was a pretty slow and relaxing one (a nice change of pace from the race that was the Fish matchups), although a couple Ball Lightnings and a Fireblast helped me finish Game 1 pretty quickly. Game 2 was a loss for when he Enlightened Tutored for Circle of Protection : Red after I got him to 1 life and was left with no cards in hand and no Cursed Scroll to answer it. He then decks me out with big Jace. Game 3 was a long and relatively evenly matched one that ended up going to time. He got CoP : Red out again and I was once again left with no Cursed Scroll to work around it, but he had no win conditions of his own that I wasn't able to kill so the game dragged out until time.

Result : 1-1, Draw


Round 4 : CounterTop
Game 1 got his Counterbalance/Top lock on by turn 3 and proceeded to counter everything relevant I had to play. He killed me not long after by Enlightened Tutoring the Thopter Foundry / Sword of the Meek combo. Game 2 went a bit better (I boarded out all 4x Lightning Bolt and 4x Chain Lightning for 3x Pithing Needle, 3x Pyroblast, and 2x Shattering Spree). I started off with a Pithing Needle on Top and beat face with Jackal Pups and Hellspark Elementals to get him down to 3 life. At that point he dropped CoP : Red (Twice in one night!? What are the chances!?) and I had to wait several turns until I had an opening to finish him off. Eventually, with 4 lands in play he taps out for big Jace. At that point I cross my fingers and sac 2 lands to Fireblast him and it nabs me the win. Game 3 he once again drops CoP : Red turn 2 after my turn 1 Jackal Pup and we spend the rest of the game in a stand off until going to time and a draw is declared.

Result : 1-1, Draw


Round 5 - Top 8 : The Gate variant
Game 1 he wins after I mull to 5 and get hit with Dark Rit + Duress + Hymn To Tourach on turn 1. He beats my face in with Vampire Nighthawk and Nantuko Shade for the win. Game 2 I drop a Jackal Pup on turn 1 then a Goblin Guide and Cursed Scroll on turn 2 before having the rest of my hand discarded away. After getting him to 8 life he kills all my creatures and gets a Tombstalker out. I hit him with Cursed Scroll 3 times and then top deck a Fireblast for the win with 1 turn left to live.
Game 3 is equally close, the only difference is by the time I get him to 10 life he has 2 Vampire Nighthawks out and I've got no burn to answer them. Through some miracle of fate (AKA Ball Lightning, Hellspark Elemental, and Grim Lavamancer) I'm able to fight through him gaining 4 life a turn for 3 turns and deal him lethal with 1 turn left to live. Close call!

Result : 2-1, Win



Final Result : Top 4




That's all for this week! It was a fun tournament once again and I walked away with $23 cash prize money in my pocket for my efforts. While I've continued to ponder replacing the 2x Cursed Scroll in my list with 2x Sulfuric Vortex, I think the past couple weeks of tournaments have given me plenty good reason to continue running Scroll over Vortex. The near constant appearance of Circle of Protection : Red in my meta is a big one, and also the number of close call games I've had that could have only been won by blasting opposing creatures with the Scroll (something that couldn't be done with the Vortex) and not taking any additional damage (again, a problem with the Vortex) is starting to get pretty high. Also, I'm quite fond of the Scrolls against decks packing discard since I can get them out quite a bit sooner before my hand gets discarded to oblivion.

So while it may not be the popular choice or general consensus for the time being I think I'm going to continue running Cursed Scroll instead of Sulfuric Vortex. The ability to kill the opponent through CoP : Red, ability to target creatures, lack of self damage, and low mana cost have all saved my backside more than once in recent history. :)

[Angelfire]

Just wanted to let you know you can't counter spells by vialing in Kira in response.

I also think Lava Spike is superior to Rift Bolt in a Kiln build.Pp

[boneclub24]

Just wanted to let you know you can't counter spells by vialing in Kira in response.

I also think Lava Spike is superior to Rift Bolt in a Kiln build.Pp

Is this because the creature has already been targeted, so Kira can't counter it?

[Angelfire]

Is this because the creature has already been targeted, so Kira can't counter it?

Kira's ability triggers when the spell is cast. Think of it like trying to Vial in Lodestone Golem to try and make a spell cost one more in response.

[bfeingersh]

Wouldn't leaving in Ball Lightning be good against Dredge? It removes bridges on its own.

[boneclub24]

[snip]

When it comes to your deck, have you considered Boggart Ram-Gang over Ball Lightning? On one hand, it's better for beating consistently, on the other it isn't as great at closing out the game.

[boneclub24]

I did a tourney about a week ago, finally had time for a report.

List:
Land: 19
11 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn

Creatures: 20
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Keldon Marauders

Spells: 21
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
2 Searing Blaze

Sideboard: 15
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
3 Shattering Spree
1 Price of Progress
1 Searing Blaze

LINK! (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=323847)

Just went 6-2 in a legacy tourney up in Washington with the list posted above. The meta was littered with MUC and Affinity. Tourney report to come.

Wins:
Round 1: Stompy
Round 2: MUC
Round 4: Team Italia
Round 5: Rock
Round 7: Affinity
Round 8: MUC

Losses:
Round 3: TES
Round 6: Goblins

Again, will post a report soon.

Round 1: Stompy
Well, I've known the pilot for a while, and I have to say he isn't the best player ever.

Game 1:
I did the gameplan of burn all his guys away so that he couldn't use his pump spells. It worked.

Sided: -3 PoP +1 Searing Blaze +2 Pithing Needle

Game 2:
Same gameplan works out, and I beat him 2-0.

Record: 1-0

Round 2: MUC
This is a guy I hadn't seen before the tourney, so I had no idea what he was playing.

Game 1:
After he play Island, Go for his first two turns, I figured I was either against MUC or High Tide. Luckily, the gameplan for each is relatively similar. I kept making aggressive pushes with my spells and creatures before he can stabilize/combo off. Once I had a few spells countered, I knew it was MUC. The game went on a little longer than it should have, due to me drawing a few dead Price of Progress. I eventually drew the beef to take out his last life though, bringing us to game 2.

Sided: -2 Searing Blaze -3 Price of Progress -3 Keldon Marauders +3 Pithing Needle +4 Red Elemental Blast

Game 2:
I go with the aggressive approach again, hoping to get the same result as game 1. Sadly, he got the Shackles and walled me with my own guys until he could get enough mana open to stabilize. Where are those Pithing Needles when you need them?!

Sided: Nothing

Game 3:
I'm on the play this game. I open with a Red Elemental Blast and a Pithing Needle! Yes! I start out with a Goblin Guide, who walks (Guides?) right into a Mental Misstep. Eh, at least he is down a counter for my hate and ate some damage. He gets Island, Go as usual. I get down a Figure of Destiny, which makes it through. I pass leaving the Red open, and pump him at End of Turn. He does Island, Go again, and I pump my Figure to a 4/4. Swing, pass. He lays down a Shackles and passes. I play the Pithing Needle naming Shackles, and instead of responding with Shackles, he counters! (yes!) I play the Red Elemental Blast on the Counterspell and the Needle goes through. I won shortly after.

Record: 2-0

Round 3: TES

Game 1:
Turn 2 combo, what can I say?

Sided: -4 Grim Lavamancer +4 Red Elemental Blast

Game 2:
I did get to Blast a crucial Blue spell (Can't remember what it was, may have been Ideas Unbound). He did have enough fuel to win anyway though. Turn 4 combo was late, but not late enough to lose the game.

Record: 2-1

Round 4: Team Italia

Game 1:
Due to this archetype being relatively new, it took me a while to see what it was. I eventually figured it out. I did the normal gameplan of burning guys out of the way to get in with my own. Once he laid down a Basilisk Collar, I made a point of leaving red mana open to burn stuff it gets equipped to to the ground. I won turn 5.

Sided: -4 Rift Bolt +1 Price of Progress +1 Searing Blaze +2 Pithing Needle

Game 2:
Pithing Needle is so good. He lays down a turn 1 Collar, I counter it with the Needle. Pro stuff. Anyway, I keep up the aggression, not caring much about his discard, and eventually blow him out with a Price of Progress for 8. That card is ridiculous.

Record: 3-1

Round 5: The Rock

Game 1:
This matchup is so great. Their hate does to little to us, it's amazing. Oh yeah, and we get the Price of Progress goodies too. He does lay down an early Goyf, but I didn't care much about it and just swing with multiple guys at once. Price of Progress ended this game too.

Sided: -2 Searing Blaze +1 Price of Progress +1 Pithing Needle

Game 2:
He sided in Kitchen Finks. WTF!? He stabilized thanks to his Ouphes, and won this game

Sided: -3 Rift Bolt +3 Searing Blaze

Game 3:
I only saw 1 Finks (Thank Goodness) this game, and I got the Searing Blaze on it, helping to offset the lifegain. I did win this game, but it took a little while. Price of Progress also closes this game. Such a great card.

Record: 4-1

Round 6: Goblins
I knew this guy pretty well as well. He is a very good player.

Game 1:
He walls off all my attempts at getting in once he hit 10 life. He then quickly closed it out while he was at 5 life. Goblin Piledriver wins some serious games.

Sided: -4 Keldon Marauders -2 Rift Bolt +1 Searing Blaze +1 Price of Progress +3 Pithing Needle +1 Shattering Spree

Game 2:
Turn 1 he Lackey, Go's me, but I have the burnspell to answer it at the end phase. I then lay down a couple beaters and proceed to answer all his cards (Its hard for him to get ahead with AEther Vial pinned down with Needle.)

Game 3:
He gets the same plan going at game 1. He answers all MY answers and kills me off quickly.

Record: 4-2

Round: 7: Affinity

Game 1:
He kills me with an Etched Champion paired with a Cranial Plating in 2 turns :/

Sided: -4 Keldon Marauders -4 Rift Bolt +3 Shattering Spree +1 Price of Progress +3 Pithing Needle +1 Searing Blaze

Game 2:
Burn his guys, Shatter his lands. He concedes.

Game 3:
Punch him quickly, Price of Progress for 8, he concedes.

Round 8: MUC
Yes! Another MUC deck!

Game 1:
He gets me with a Shackles, but I don't give up. I should have xD

Sided: -2 Searing Blaze -3 Price of Progress -3 Keldon Marauders +3 Pithing Needle +4 Red Elemental Blast

Game 2:
I actually play a little laid back in this game. I start out with a fetch into a Grim Lavamancer, and just plan on slowly burning him. I Needle the Shackles he lays down, and counter the proceeding Mental Misstep with REB. He did bounce Grim with a Jace eventually, but he had eaten enough damage to get taken out with my onslaught of burn I had been stockpiling.

Game 3:
I totally aggro rush him with 3 Goblin Guides (!). Gotta love that red player's luck.

Well anyway, that is the report. Sorry if I got a little lazy towards the end, I was getting tired of typing xD

[Hireax]

I've been reading through a lot of this thread and I think this deck is vastly underestimated!

I just had a simple question to clear my mind.. What are good and bad match-ups generally speaking? I can see the sideboarding plan against most decks :), so no need to go on about that for me.

Thnx in advance,
Hireax

[Jin15]

Hello again everyone! ^_^
After far too long of a break from RDW/Sligh, trying other Legacy decks that interested me for 6 months or so (and not finding any of them to be as consistently good or nearly as fun to play as Sligh), I'm back to play my old favorite once again!

I rebuilt the Sligh deck I was playing about 6 months or so ago with a few minor tweaks and tunes to the sideboard for the current local metagame. I'm going to be taking it to what should be a good medium sized legacy tournament (30 to 40 people) tomorrow night to have some fun and see how it does. Here's the list I'll be playing...



[23 Creatures]
4 Goblin Guide
4 Jackal Pup
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Ball Lightning

[2 Artifacts]
2 Cursed Scroll

[15 Spells]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress

[20 Lands]
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Teetering Peaks
9 Mountain

[Sideboard]
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
2 Smash to Smithereens
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Mindbreak Trap


The main deck is exactly the same as the list I was playing when I last ran the deck 6 months ago, but with a little less in the way Stoneforge decks around now I swapped out the 2x Sulfuric Vortex I used to run in the sideboard for 2x Smash to Smithereens and I also switched out the 3x Tormod's Crypt I used to run for 3x Faerie Macabre due to my expectation of less Dredge and more Reanimator decks and blue decks with Snapcaster Mage.

We'll see how it goes, but no matter what happens I'm totally stoked just to be playing my all time favorite deck again. There's a lot of decks in a lot of formats that I've played over the years but none that I've ever loved as much as Legacy Sligh. :smile:
I'll be posting again friday or saturday with a tournament report for tomorrow night's event.

[sligh16]

Nice!! best of luck to you man!

Also, have you tested shrine of burning rage? I play 3 and they are all stars.

[SupREME-10]

That is a nice deck and I do wish you luck as Sligh has been raising it's head a little in the top8 as of late.

Most noteworthy lately is this deck (check alternate Sideboards)
placed 5/8 by Samual Davis @ Star City Games Legacy Kansas City
Legacy ** 156 players - 30/10/11

placed 5/8 Burn Austin Yost @ Star City Games Legacy Las Vegas
Legacy ** 167 players - 06/11/11

19 LANDS
17 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring

13 CREATURES
4 Goblin Guide
3 Figure of Destiny
3 Keldon Marauders
3 Hellspark Elemental

28 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
4 Flame Rift

SIDEBOARD -- Samual Davis
4 Pyroblast
2 Reverberate
3 Smash to Smithereens
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyrostatic Pillar

SIDEBOARD -- Austin Yost
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Shattering Spree
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyrostatic Pillar


I noticed that your running a very heavy creature base, and I hope that works out for you but I would also advice towards a little more burn in the deck if you can. I think that some things you included (like the Cursed Scroll) are insanely good old school tech that is almost regotten, so props on that. Finally here is my own Sligh for you to look at, and although I am no pro it has done well for me.

19Land
3 x Forgotten Cave
16 x Mountain

Creatures
3 x Figure of Destiny
4 x Goblin Guide
3 x Hellspark Elemental
3 x Keldon Marauders
2 x Spark Elemental

Artifact
3 x Ankh of Mishra

Spells
4 x Chain Lightning
3 x Fireblast
2 x Flame Rift
4 x Lava Spike
4 x Lightning Bolt
3 x Price of Progress
4 x Rift Bolt

Sideboard
2 x Cursed Scroll
2 x Pithing Needle
2 x Tormod's Crypt
2 x Pyroblast
2 x Pyrostatic Pillar
2 x Red Elemental Blast
3 x Smash to Smithereens

Anyway, I just thought that I would share those decks with you to offer a few other cards and configurations for your consideration. Good luck with what your doing, and most certainly let us know what deck you end up going with and how well you do with it.

[burigo]

this deck needs 4 arid mesa and 4 scalding tarn

this way you reduce the number of lands in your library and increase the chance of drawing burn for round 3 wins

may sound kind of suicidal but it's important to win before goyfs get big or combo decks do their combos

[Koby]

this deck needs 4 arid mesa and 4 scalding tarn

this way you reduce the number of lands in your library and increase the chance of drawing burn for round 3 wins

may sound kind of suicidal but it's important to win before goyfs get big or combo decks do their combos

This isn't true. Playing fetchlands doesn't increase your deck's burn density. It doesn't make good sense to run fetchlands unless you have another use for the lands in your graveyard like Grim Lavamancer.

[Justin]

That isn't quite true, either. Running fetchlands and cracking them does thin your deck and increase the probability that you will draw a spell, rather than a land. However, this is probability increase is only by a very small percentage. So you are correct that it is not worth running fetchlands, just for the sake of thinning a deck. The loss of life is more likely to be relevant than any gain from taking one land out of your library.

Sligh's usually a great deck to run fetches, though, because it's an aggro deck that plays cards such as Grim Lavamancer and Steppe Lynx.

[Sims]

That isn't quite true, either. Running fetchlands and cracking them does thin your deck and increase the probability that you will draw a spell, rather than a land. However, this is probability increase is only by a very small percentage. So you are correct that it is not worth running fetchlands, just for the sake of thinning a deck. The loss of life is more likely to be relevant than any gain from taking one land out of your library.

Sligh's usually a great deck to run fetches, though, because it's an aggro deck that plays cards such as Grim Lavamancer and Steppe Lynx.


The referenced decklists above played neither Lavamancer nor Steppe Lynx, therefore the miniscule deckthinning provided by fetchlands is a moot point at best. The one deck list is even running Ankh of Mishra, which is terrible if you're planning on running fetchlands yourself.

[SupREME-10]

Well one of those decks above is mine, and it does run 3x Ankh of Mishra maindeck, so honestly Fetchlands would not be such a great idea as that card actually punishes the fetch architect. It also runs 3x Forgotten Caves as opposed to the more common Barbarian Ring as the caves can be cycled out which once again provides that minuscule deck thinning mechanism without adding Ankh pain.

Oh and the deck is not a Burn deck, or I would have put in that section. It is a Sligh and actually runs some 15 creatures; without Grim Lavamancer as I don't like the GY mechanism either.

Goyf is not as scary as people seam to think, as I have seen Knights of R that are much bigger and meaner.

I own plenty of Fetchlands; but I don't see them adding much to this deck aside from Pricetag.

I do think that I will go to 3x Hellspark and only 2 Spark Elementals though, as the GY recursion is something I enjoy a little.

[paeng4983]

Does anyone here thought of using stromkirk noble or stormblood berserker?
I love the idea of turn one noble, then turn two remove his 1st drop creature with your burn, then attack noble. Or see your berserker beat his ass for he is unblockable (that is working on the premise that you kept on burning his dudes away).

^_^

[SupREME-10]

Both of those creatures deserve some testing; but my initial thought is that due to their lack of haste, and their conditional circumstances to actually grow in P/T that other creatures are simply better.

Here is how I pose the question back to you -- to insert
Stromkirk Noble
Stormblood Berserker
What you remove from the list
Figure of Destiny
Goblin Guide
Hellspark Elemental
Keldon Marauders
Spark Elemental

On the other side of that question, now that you may need to use your Burn to help those guys meet their conditions you are limiting you own options, especially if your in top-deck mode during the mid-late game.

Anyway, those are my thoughts back to you on those creatures. Yes I think that they are very good creatures overall; but for my deck, I just don't see them being better than what I already have.

[Ernie11235]

I've been having some online success with this list:

8 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa

4 Goblin Guide
4 Jackal Pup
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Dismember
4 Rite of Flame

4 Shattering Spree
4 Pyroblast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyrostatic Pillar

It's really fast and resilient with lots of very mana efficient beaters and burn spells. Spell Snare, which has become a 4-of in most blue decks is a dead card against this list, Daze and Force of Will are also very ineffective when they are countering something that only cost us 1 mana but sets them back a land drop or forces them to discard another card and pay a life. The Dismembers have been great against Tarmogoyf and Knights of the Reliquary and Stoneforge Mystic. Chalice of the Void might be a concern but Shattering Spree in the board takes it out, not to mention, very few tier 1 decks even play Chalice of the Void. This is a swarm deck with Bushwhacker acting as a mini-Overrun effect. Rite of Flame has allowed me to dump my hand extremely fast and isn't a dead card late when it pumps my Figure of Destiny or allows me to hard cast Rift Bolt for immediate impact on the game. Rite of Flame also allows me to have a turn 1 Pyrostatic Pillar against the Storm decks which I find to be very important.

Just thought I would share.
-Ernie

[Jin15]

That's a pretty unique list Ernie!
I like the swarm idea, but my only concern with it would be mana screw (16 lands seem like way too few, even with Rite of Flame) and the fact unless you draw a boarded in Shattering Spree you pretty much scoop to Chalice of the Void @ 1. Still though, cool list. Haven't seen anything quite like that before ^_^

[troopatroop]

Anyone who thinks Forgotten Cave is good in Sligh, needs to go back to 4th grade. CIPT lands are AWFUL.



I can't believe I just wasted 30 seconds of my time to inform someone of this. I'm gonna go reflect.

[Ernie11235]

That's a pretty unique list Ernie!

Thanks Jin15. I'm not really worried about Chalice of the Void, it simply isn't seeing play around my area and it isn't seen on any of the "Decks to Beat" lists. 16 lands does seem low, but remember, you only need 2 land to comfortably play an entire game. Keeping a one-lander is not so uncommon with this deck, obviously two land is ideal. When my opponent Path to Exiles my first creature its nice knowing that my mana is then set for the rest of the game. Searing Blaze was the last card to get cut because 16 land just wasn't enough to support it and I really wanted to make Spell Snare a dead card for my opponent. Price of Progress was getting Snared, Searing Blaze, Keldon Marauders, all got Snared and I felt like I was losing too much tempo. I decided that I would rather play a Tattermunge Maniac that hit the board than a Marauder that didn't. Every time someone Force of Will'd a Keldon Marauder or Price of Progress I felt that I was on the losing end of that transaction, but now when they Force of Will a Jackal Pup or Tattermunge Maniac, discarding the Spell Snare, I feel like I got the better end of the deal. Game one, they will hold onto their Spell Snares to stop Marauder, Price, etc. Hopefully they don't pay attention and keep them in for game 2, lol. Grim Lavamancer gives the deck some reach and more removal, only 16 (half of which are fetch lands) guarantee you are drawing gas as the game goes on. With all of my removal spells costing only 1 mana, I can easily keep the path clear for my dudes while casting more. There aren't many sweepers other than Engineered Explosives, Pernicious Deed, and Wrath of God (rarely) seeing a lot of play. Punishing Fire could be a problem but Pyrostatic Pillar from the sideboard helps against that because I am gaining life, which allows me to keep casting spells while they are taking lots of damage from Pillar. Anyway, it's very fun and has been doing better than expected for me. I've had turn 3 kills against combo which is pretty hilarious.
-Ernie

[SupREME-10]

Forgotten does more than CIPT -- read all of it.

Forgotten Cave enters the battlefield tapped.

{T}: Add {R} to your mana pool.

Cycling {R} ({R}, Discard this card: Draw a card.)

And with an Ankh on board you don't want to drop more land, not even a barbarian Ring so cycling it mid-late game can get you to that finishing card. It might not be as good as a basic mountain but there are times when it is better as well as those when it's worse. PS, this was also the deck I built when I returned to MTG after a break of over 10 years, so cost was a factor as well as card knowledge; but the deck actually works to this day (over a year old now) and has done well for me, so why change it to be what others are using if their decks are doing no better.

Anyway, I do have Barbarian Rings, and plenty of fetchlands etc, I just like the old tech of the Ankh and focused some things to go along with that.

[boneclub24]

I also don't like the fact that it doesn't work with Fireblast (same why I don't like Ring)

[Jin15]

Although I've never tested Forgotten Cave, I've been playing 3x CIPT lands in my Sligh deck for over a year now and I've been very happy with them. So I don't think CIPT necessarily means "unplayable". My mana base is

9x Mountain
4x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Teetering Peaks

Although there is some anti-synergy with Price of Progress and Fireblast, it almost never is actually relevant and the fact that I get in for 2 damage right away off the land has been excellent for me. It's a great turn 2 play on a Goblin Guide or Jackal Pup and leaves you mana open to play another 1 drop as well. Alternately, I like playing it later in the game on a Hellspark Elemental or Ball Lightning as well for some extra trample damage if there's a blocker out. It basically does the same thing as Barbarian Ring except that you get the damage right away instead of having to wait until you have threshhold, don't damage yourself in the process, and there's no anti-synergy with Grim Lavamancer to worry about. Heck, I've even Teetering Peaks'd a Grim Lavamancer a time or two to get in some good damage with him in the early game before I had enough cards in my graveyard to start pinging with him.

At this point WotC would have to print a really awesome land that gets in for at least 3 damage right away and taps for red to convince me to run something other than Teetering Peaks. Based on my experience with Peaks I think the blanket statement of "CIPT lands are awful" is rather false. I wouldn't want to run 4 of them since I usually don't want to see more than 1 in my opening hand, but having 3 has been very good for me.

[SupREME-10]

Ditto to Jin15, 3 is about the right number of CIPT land for me, as I have found them very very far from useless.

[Justin]

I also don't like the fact that it doesn't work with Fireblast (same why I don't like Ring)

Actually, Barbarian Ring works great with Fireblast. The only exception is when you are mana screwed and only have one mountain. But Fireblast is a finisher that you use in the late game. If you are mana screwed, you are probably losing anyway.

When you aren't mana screwed, Ring and Fireblast have great synergy. You can tap your mountains for red mana before you sacrifice them so that you can activate your Rings. Then you put three cards in your graveyard and help yourself get to threshold fast.

[troopatroop]

Again, circumstances. Lategame they can be good, when you have enough lands, and would rather have a card. This is obvious. The point is, this isn't a lategame deck. You're trying to apply serious pressure, and you're already at a disadvantage against better cards in other colors. You can't afford to be the aggro and drop a cipt land. Not in a developed metagame.

Teetering Peeks is a free Shock at the expense of 1 mana for that turn. Sometimes this is very good.

And then other times, when you need your lands to cast spells on turns 2-3 in competetive Legacy, slowing yourself down isn't worth any of these perks. If you only have 2 lands, and one is CIPT, you're invariably boned. It's not about the fact that they can't be good. You have to understand variance! Barbarian Ring is much more consistantly what you're lookin for here, as it's a land that doubles as a burn spell, and it taps for red mana on turn 1 and 2. Teetering Peeks can be great, Forgotten Cave is much worse, imo.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Figured I'd leave this here. I've top-4d two of my local events with this build (including playing with a massive hangover the second time lol).

4 Steppe Lynx
4 Goblin Guide
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Lightning Helix
3 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast

3 Sylvan Library

4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Mountain

Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Mindbreak Trap

Some comments. Yes, I'm aware this isn't mono-red, but I think that in order to maximize the power of Sligh you need to splash for absurd one-drops. Stuff like Ancient Grudge and Lightning Helix is just the icing on the cake. This deck is a serious threat against basically any archetype - you even have a shot against combo because you are capable of turn 3 kills and postboard have decent hate. I actually beat two storm decks at the last tournament I attended because the deck is fast and I draw Mindbreak Trap like a gangsta. Everything in here deals large amounts of damage, except Sylvan Library which just draws you more things that deal damage (you usually won't care about your own life total). The Stomping Ground obviously isn't optimal, but I found out that I only own two Taigas.

[SupREME-10]

Nice deck, it's called a Goyf-Sligh, Naya-Sligh, Zoo-Sligh or Sligh-Zoo though and it should probably go in the appropriate thread.

Congrats on getting to Top 4 with it, as I have seen it go all the way back when Mental Misstep was first coming out.

Thanks for sharing.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Nice deck, it's called a Naya-Sligh, Zoo-Sligh or Sligh-Zoo though and it should probably go in the appropriate thread.

Congrats on getting to Top 4 with it, as I have seen it go all the way back when Mental Misstep was first coming out.

Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, I went back several pages and couldn't find a thread for any of those decks (this was already enough of a necro). It doesn't really fit in the Zoo thread, which is mostly "Big" Zoo variants. This seemed like the best place for it as a result.

[Strawberry Dwarf]

Has anyone tried old-school (pre-Tempest, slower) type of Sligh? Here is my last try:

Lands (21):
14 Mountain
3 Molten Slagheap
4 Ghitu Encampment

Creatures (23):
3 Gorilla Shaman
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Bloodfire Dwarf
4 Blood Knight
3 Skirk Marauder
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
4 Orcish Artillery

Burn (8):
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyrite Spellbomb

Other stuff (8):
4 Gorgon Flail
2 Darksteel Pendant
2 Icy Manipulator

Sideboard:
4 Thran Foudry
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Flaring Pain
4 Keldon Vandals

This deck has almost nothing with decks posted above except roots back in 1996. The idea behind has been to make use of deathtouch together with shooters for board control. This deck is quite slower, but that is the old-school way.

Card choices and interactions:

I. Lands (no fetches, storage lands etc.)
Fetches: This is monocolor and I don't believe in the thinning efect to be valuable. There are already ways for selective card advantage, i.e. Pendants and cantrip-able Spellbombs. Storage lands are here for Gorilla Shamans and Akroma. Ghitu Encampments allow to continue offensive after reset and they produce valuable red mana.

II. Permanent creatures only
IMO, permanent threats are far more valuable for aggro than faster but short-lived ones. This deck hardly runs out of steam, at the cost of speed however.

III. Shooters and firststrikers + Deathtouch
Gorgon Flail is the key card in this deck. With equipped Fanatic/Artillery/morph on board, opponent can't stabilize easily by throwing some fatty. This is the answer to Iona, Emrakul, Dreadnaught and plenty of other fatties, equipped dwarf takes care of zombie tokens and goblins this way, it is hard to stop equipped knight... The only question: why not Basilisk Collar instead? Gorgon Flail was/is much easier to purchase, it is not strictly worse and it can fulfill additional role Collar can't: save 1-toughness dudes when own dwarf fires.

IV. Gorilla Shaman
Plenty of reasons: Chrome Mox, Affinity lands, Needle, Scroll, Top...

V. Red Akroma
She is my pet card. For fun purposes, I replaced the 4th Skirk Marauder with her. She is playable as morph at worst, waiting for her glorious time. She can surprise Show-and-Tellers and slow blue control mage will face a problem in late game. Sometimes she can be hardcasted or flipped "little quicker" thanks to storage lands.

VI. Only 8 burn spells
Yes, but 15 creatures can fire as well (11 of those to the opponent's head), Orcish Artillery repeatedly. Bolt is classic, Spellbomb destroys Silver Knight & Co and can be cantripped.

VII. Icy Manipulator
Additional answer to some nearly-unkillable dangerous fatties (Colossus, white Akroma and Sphinx of the Steel Wind come to my mind), sometimes useful against lands and artifacts as well.

VIII. Darksteel Pendant
Ancient Sligh ran 2 Orcish Librarians, this is the replacement. Less effective, but tougher to deal with.

IX. Sideboard (for unknown meta)
Thran Foundry: against mill, graveyard and top-deck tutors
Thorn of Amethyst: against storm, burn and spell-based control decks
Flaring Pain: against CoP: Red & similar cards
Keldon Vandals: additional tool against artifacts

[Vandalize]

Has anyone tried old-school (pre-Tempest, slower) type of Sligh? Here is my last try:

Lands (21):
14 Mountain
3 Molten Slagheap
4 Ghitu Encampment

Creatures (23):
3 Gorilla Shaman
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Bloodfire Dwarf
4 Blood Knight
3 Skirk Marauder
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
4 Orcish Artillery

Burn (8):
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyrite Spellbomb

Other stuff (8):
4 Gorgon Flail
2 Darksteel Pendant
2 Icy Manipulator

Sideboard:
4 Thran Foudry
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Flaring Pain
4 Keldon Vandals

This deck has almost nothing with decks posted above except roots back in 1996. The idea behind has been to make use of deathtouch together with shooters for board control. This deck is quite slower, but that is the old-school way.

Card choices and interactions:

I. Lands (no fetches, storage lands etc.)
Fetches: This is monocolor and I don't believe in the thinning efect to be valuable. There are already ways for selective card advantage, i.e. Pendants and cantrip-able Spellbombs. Storage lands are here for Gorilla Shamans and Akroma. Ghitu Encampments allow to continue offensive after reset and they produce valuable red mana.

II. Permanent creatures only
IMO, permanent threats are far more valuable for aggro than faster but short-lived ones. This deck hardly runs out of steam, at the cost of speed however.

III. Shooters and firststrikers + Deathtouch
Gorgon Flail is the key card in this deck. With equipped Fanatic/Artillery/morph on board, opponent can't stabilize easily by throwing some fatty. This is the answer to Iona, Emrakul, Dreadnaught and plenty of other fatties, equipped dwarf takes care of zombie tokens and goblins this way, it is hard to stop equipped knight... The only question: why not Basilisk Collar instead? Gorgon Flail was/is much easier to purchase, it is not strictly worse and it can fulfill additional role Collar can't: save 1-toughness dudes when own dwarf fires.

IV. Gorilla Shaman
Plenty of reasons: Chrome Mox, Affinity lands, Needle, Scroll, Top...

V. Red Akroma
She is my pet card. For fun purposes, I replaced the 4th Skirk Marauder with her. She is playable as morph at worst, waiting for her glorious time. She can surprise Show-and-Tellers and slow blue control mage will face a problem in late game. Sometimes she can be hardcasted or flipped "little quicker" thanks to storage lands.

VI. Only 8 burn spells
Yes, but 15 creatures can fire as well (11 of those to the opponent's head), Orcish Artillery repeatedly. Bolt is classic, Spellbomb destroys Silver Knight & Co and can be cantripped.

VII. Icy Manipulator
Additional answer to some nearly-unkillable dangerous fatties (Colossus, white Akroma and Sphinx of the Steel Wind come to my mind), sometimes useful against lands and artifacts as well.

VIII. Darksteel Pendant
Ancient Sligh ran 2 Orcish Librarians, this is the replacement. Less effective, but tougher to deal with.

IX. Sideboard (for unknown meta)
Thran Foundry: against mill, graveyard and top-deck tutors
Thorn of Amethyst: against storm, burn and spell-based control decks
Flaring Pain: against CoP: Red & similar cards
Keldon Vandals: additional tool against artifacts

Really dude? Legacy has evolved a little bit in the past few years, just to let you know. The only card that's playable in today's metagame is Lightning Bolt and Mountain, lol.

[iamfrightenedtoo]

If anyone is interested. I play tested zoo a lot recently. I have always played against it hundreds of times in real tournaments. It is heavily played in my local meta.
My first instinct with this deck was always too burn their creatures, and use mine for win. This, does not work. They have as many creatures as you have burn, and they have as many removal as you have creatures. It is easier to chump block their creatures, with yours and race with Burn.
Also, Flame Rift is awful. Against a deck with no lifelink, or burn it is solid(at best) against anything else, it is pointless.
Flame Rift auto loses to Lightning Helix. When you Flame Rift, and they Lightning Helix, the life loss for you is 7, and 1 for them.
A three year old tournament report stated that against Zoo the object is to goldfish race them. This is true, but with Flame Rift, you just give them a 4 damage burn spell for free. Zoo is also more consistent with Fetch lands, they are barely susceptible to mana flooding.

[Mr. Safety]

Again, circumstances. Lategame they can be good, when you have enough lands, and would rather have a card. This is obvious. The point is, this isn't a lategame deck. You're trying to apply serious pressure, and you're already at a disadvantage against better cards in other colors. You can't afford to be the aggro and drop a cipt land. Not in a developed metagame.

Teetering Peeks is a free Shock at the expense of 1 mana for that turn. Sometimes this is very good.

And then other times, when you need your lands to cast spells on turns 2-3 in competetive Legacy, slowing yourself down isn't worth any of these perks. If you only have 2 lands, and one is CIPT, you're invariably boned. It's not about the fact that they can't be good. You have to understand variance! Barbarian Ring is much more consistantly what you're lookin for here, as it's a land that doubles as a burn spell, and it taps for red mana on turn 1 and 2. Teetering Peeks can be great, Forgotten Cave is much worse, imo.

I agree fundamentally...I tend to dismiss Forgotten Cave in sligh fairly quickly, but probably for a slightly different reason. The biggest reason for using an all-Mountain (or fetch supported all mountain) mana base is the 4x Fireblast. Four damage for free is what pushes this deck into contention. Top-decking a mountain or fetchland in the late game means you can hustle more Fireblasts. Forgotten Cave isn't efficient enough for what it does. It's much more of a liability than a help. If you want to somehow add in more utility to a sligh deck, use Magma Jet and Searing Blaze. Both of those are much better at providing alternative uses than a cycle land.

My personal opinion is that fetchlands to feed Grims and all mountains to feed Fireblasts is the way to go, hands down. Teetering Peeks, Forgotten Cave, and Barbarian Ring are all sub-par to those 2 fundamental interactions of the mana base with Sligh's strategy. There is only one non-basic land (other than fetches) that I would support in a sligh deck and that is Wasteland. If you are landing a fast threat that you can ride (like Goblin Guide, Tattermunge Maniac, or even Grim Lavamancer) then Wasteland can be an all-star at buying you time. Combo decks (other than Solidarity) use fairly greedy mana-bases. Wasteland can sometimes mean the difference between winning and losing. Wasteland gets even BETTER if you're using the Ankh of Mishra style of deck...punish them for playing lands and then Waste them off a key color. It takes a particular approach to use Wasteland, but it can work. I'd probably play a full 20 lands in a Wasteland setup (17 mountains, 3 Wastelands) and use a white splash for Steppe Lynx or green for Goyf. The purpose is to play a threat that you can ride for a good half of their life total and then burn FTW, Wasteland playing goal-keeper by keeping them off their lands.

I know that you are sold on the cycle lands Ken (SupREME-10) but I really feel that they are not wise.

[SupREME-10]

@Mr. Safety (George)

I used the Forgotten Caves in my Sligh as I was building it budget wise and using the Ankh of Mishra old school tech. I 100% agree that the Wasteland is a better card than the Caves, Teetering, or Barbarian Ring.

I also leave my Sligh deck intact with 3x Caves as placeholders as I hate switching my Wastelands from deck to deck, and I need them even more in other decks.

Here is my current Sligh Build though for when it sees Thursday Night Legacy action... It kicked but this week BTW going 3-0 but I also never ran into any top tier decks (W/R lockdown, MBControl, and watered down Zew).

Maindeck
16 x Mountain
3 x Wasteland

3 x Ankh of Mishra

3 x Figure of Destiny
4 x Goblin Guide
3 x Hellspark Elemental
3 x Keldon Marauders
2 x Spark Elemental

4 x Chain Lightning
2 x Fireblast
3 x Flame Rift
4 x Lava Spike
4 x Lightning Bolt
3 x Price of Progress
4 x Rift Bolt

Sideboard
2 x Cursed Scroll
2 x Pithing Needle
2 x Tormod's Crypt
2 x Pyroblast
2 x Pyrostatic Pillar
2 x Red Elemental Blast
3 x Smash to Smithereens

And I know that it is still out of the "Top build" for most people; but you need to use what works in your area, and what you enjoy. And this build works for me. I am always open to suggestions though and comments are welcome.

[Entromancer]

Hey, I've been running the Marauders/Hellspark combo as well. I'd like to try a creature build that wants to maintain a game. As far as 2-drops go, I'm seeing Ember Hauler and Kargan Dragonlord as possibilities. Thoughts?

[Mr. Safety]

Sligh has a chance to cash in on a premium of 1-drop creatures...I wouldn't play Ember Hauler or Kargan Dragonlord...or even Figure of Destiny. Vexing Devil changes the rules, he's a burn spell OR a creature.

I think an optimized sligh list right now would look like this:

4x Vexing Devil
4x Goblin Guide
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Hellspark Elemental
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lava Spike
4x Fireblast
4x Rift Bolt
3x Price of Progress
2x Searing Blaze
4x Arid Mesa
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Wasteland
10x Mountain

[paeng4983]

Hello Sligh page.
I think this is the perfect spot where I can share what happened to our sligh deck used by one of my friends during the last WCQ side event where 20 players participated.

The list that he use was this:

19 mountain

3 vexing devil
4 grim lavamancer
4 keldon marauder
4 goblin guide
4 hellspark elemental

4 lightning bolt
4 chain of lightning
4 fireblast
4 lava spike
4 price of progress

2 sulfuric vortex

SB
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 red elemental blast
3 tormod's crypt
2 vulshok refugee
1 sulfuric vortex
3 pyrostatic pillar

He won against: GW mavs, UR delver, and W_stax
He lost against: high tide and dredge

He said, the new devils were great. Most of his opponents pays 4 life pts immediately after dropping it, especially during turn one or two. Another good thing was the land count. Replacing all the fetches with mountains, as he sees it, is a good move. It dodges stifle packed decks. But unfortunately he wasn't able to faced one. And lastly, the addition of refugee, the pro-RED guy, decks such as burn/ sligh decks, UR delver and RUG getting rampant these days, is also a good thing in the SB.

[SupREME-10]

I agree George and Vexing Devil is replacing the Figure of Destiny in my deck outright. The other change that I am working on is Thunderous Wrath, but only as a 2-off so far.

[scottpou]

Hello everyone,
I'm getting back into Magic after several years away, and I have found myself going back to my ol' reliable deck, Sligh. At least until I figure out my local tourney meta.

So I built a deck with Fetchlands, Grim Lavamancer, keldon marauders, Wasteland and Rishadan Port. Then I started playing on Cockatrice (which is so much better than Workstation used to be). I quickly realized several things:
(A) I hate losing 2-3 life every game to minimally thin my deck
(B) I HATE Stifle
(C) Every deck has wastelands now
(D) Dismember is in so many decks and always targets Grim before it can do anything
(E) PoP is still relevant today and this makes me very happy.

I also noticed a lot of deck-essential creatures running around with 2 toughness or less (Zombie tokens, Elves, Delver, Goblins, Deathrite, Grim, Stoneforge, etc.). Racing the decks that belch out a large number of dudes on turn 1 or 2 usually doesn't win us very many games. Sligh wins on turn 3 or 4. So I decided to change the deck around.

Reasoning:
Cave-In (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cave-In)
Now, I maindeck Cave-In and view them like a creature. I want to see one at least once a game. So the key is to have other creatures that are either tough enough to withstand the 2 damage or have Haste to swing across a clean battlefield. With Cave-In, exiled cards should always be another Cave-In, Fireblast or Thunderous Wrath, if you initially drew it. Let's be honest, you aren't going to be playing any of those cards for their full casting cost so they are just going to be sitting in your hand doing nothing.

Vexing Devil (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vexing Devil)
With this configuration, I believe Vexing Devil can be better utilized. Even dropping him 3rd, 4th or 5th turn after Cave-In will likely leave you with a clear board to swing across, therefore getting the 4 damage you need out of him.

Thunderous Wrath (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Thunderous Wrath)
Thunderous Wrath is a great miracle for red and fills the void of Flame Rift (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Flame Rift). I had 3x Thunderous Wrath in here but after testing, I went down to 2x. While it is great to get one on your draw, the problem is that it forces you to play it that turn. It doesn't care what plans you already had. I want to see it, but not that badly. It's actually very similar to how I always felt about Flame Rift. Even still, taking out 25% of your opponents life points is just too good to pass up for only :r:


Maindeck (60)

4x Goblin Guide (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Goblin Guide)
4x Vexing Devil (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vexing Devil)
4x Hellspark Elemental (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Hellspark Elemental)

4x Lightning Bolt (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lightning Bolt)
4x Chain Lightning (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Chain Lightning)
4x Lava Spike (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lava Spike)
4x Price of Progress (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Price of Progress)
4x Rift Bolt (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Rift Bolt)
4x Cave-In (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cave-In)
4x Fireblast (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Fireblast)
2x Thunderous Wrath (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Thunderous Wrath)

2x Barbarian Ring (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Barbarian Ring)
16x Mountain (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mountain)

Sideboard (15):
4x Vexing Shusher (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Vexing Shusher)
4x Mindbreak Trap (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mindbreak Trap)
4x Faerie Macabre (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Faerie Macabre)
3x Ensnaring Bridge (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Ensnaring Bridge)

My Sideboard is still a little suspect and I am open to discussion!
To me, Ensnaring Bridge has been better than Smash to Smithereens because it can handle Jitte and Batterskull as well as Sneak Show, Reanimator and Turbo Eldrazi.
I would be lying if I didn't say I miss Sulfuric Vortex (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Sulfuric Vortex)'s anti-life gaining sometimes.

I know this thread has been dead for a long time, but Sligh still puts a smile on my face as soon as I start shuffling. :smile: