Dredge 101

[junkdiver]

Hey guys, I have some questions regarding how some things work in the deck.

1. If I dredge 3 times with my Cephalid Colosseum activation, and in each dredge I hit a Narcomoeba, the three triggers do no go on the stack until I have discarded the three cards from the Cephalid Colosseum. Is that correct?

2. Follow up question to part 1. Since all the triggers happen at the same time, and yet graveyard order must be preserved, what is the best way of keeping track of which Nacromoeba's in the graveyard have triggered?

I would like to not take them out of the graveyard as I dredge them, because if say one was stifled and my opponent properly waited for all the triggers to go onto the stack, I would have to remember exactly where he was in my graveyard or risk a possible warning or worse.

Is turning the Narcomoebas sideways in the graveyard an acceptable way of remembering which ones will trigger once all dredging has completed and Cephalid Colesseum has resolved? Or should I mark them with a dice or something?

I am concerned because I do not want to put them into play too early and risk the scenario above, and I do not want to put them into play too late and risk my opponent explain to me that I have missed the window of opportunity on the triggers.

3. Regarding bridge triggers with the flashback costs of Cabal Therapy and Dread Return: If I sacrifice 3 creatures to pay the cost for Dread Return, assuming I have 3 bridge from below in the graveyard, is this order correct:

1. The creatures I sacrificed to cast dread return go into the graveyard.
2. I name the card I am targeting with dread return and put dread return on the stack.
3. The 9 bridge triggers go onto the stack.
4. No one responds, so I put 9 zombies into play
5. I put the creature I targeted with dread return into play.
6. I move Dread Return to the RFG pile.

Is that correct?

4. Are there any rules about how "close" my RFG pile can be to my graveyard? Are there any weird rules I should know about as a dredge player, knowing that my graveyard will likely take up 50-75% of my play area?


Thanks anyone for reading and answering. These are questions I have wondered, and don't want to be in the dark about them anymore, so thanks very much!

[cdr]

Hey guys, I have some questions regarding how some things work in the deck.

1. If I dredge 3 times with my Cephalid Colosseum activation, and in each dredge I hit a Narcomoeba, the three triggers do no go on the stack until I have discarded the three cards from the Cephalid Colosseum. Is that correct?

Yes. Triggers don't go on the stack until someone gets priority.


2. Follow up question to part 1. Since all the triggers happen at the same time, and yet graveyard order must be preserved, what is the best way of keeping track of which Nacromoeba's in the graveyard have triggered?

I would like to not take them out of the graveyard as I dredge them, because if say one was stifled and my opponent properly waited for all the triggers to go onto the stack, I would have to remember exactly where he was in my graveyard or risk a possible warning or worse.

Is turning the Narcomoebas sideways in the graveyard an acceptable way of remembering which ones will trigger once all dredging has completed and Cephalid Colesseum has resolved? Or should I mark them with a dice or something?

I am concerned because I do not want to put them into play too early and risk the scenario above, and I do not want to put them into play too late and risk my opponent explain to me that I have missed the window of opportunity on the triggers.

Either of those methods is fine for marking them. They trigger when they hit the graveyard, so you should indicate they triggered but not move them until the triggers resolve.


3. Regarding bridge triggers with the flashback costs of Cabal Therapy and Dread Return: If I sacrifice 3 creatures to pay the cost for Dread Return, assuming I have 3 bridge from below in the graveyard, is this order correct:

1. The creatures I sacrificed to cast dread return go into the graveyard.
2. I name the card I am targeting with dread return and put dread return on the stack.
3. The 9 bridge triggers go onto the stack.
4. No one responds, so I put 9 zombies into play
5. I put the creature I targeted with dread return into play.
6. I move Dread Return to the RFG pile.

Is that correct?

Put it on the stack, declare targets, then pay costs. Other than that, pretty much correct.


4. Are there any rules about how "close" my RFG pile can be to my graveyard? Are there any weird rules I should know about as a dredge player, knowing that my graveyard will likely take up 50-75% of my play area?

Your removed from game cards have to be very clearly seperate from your graveyard. It should not be possible to confuse them at all.

Your graveyard has to be kept in a "single face-up pile". There are a variety of ways to accomplish this.

[junkdiver]

Thanks very much for taking the time to answer cdr.

So one thing I am doing wrong based on what you have said is I "continue" my graveyard in another pile next to the old one once it gets too big... So based on what you have said then I cannot do this.

What is the best way to keep a graveyard in one pile and still have a good idea of what is in it, and allow my opponent to still know what is in it?


Thanks again!

[Julian23]

I see a lot of good Dredge players playing with their graveyard in fron of them covering almost all of what would be the battlefield. They maintain graveyard order by slightly overlaping the cards. Thus the bottom card of the graveyard will still be at the bottom with each card on top overlaping the card under it.

[tyleredw]

I usually fan out my graveyard whenever i play dredge so everything is visible to both players.
Something like this:

http://i.imgur.com/ehxdLl.jpg

[Malchar]

I've never seen anyone keep a graveyard in a single pile since invasion block. Try laying it out horizontally below your land. Might be hard to explain, but you could try searching for some videos of people playing.

[junkdiver]

Thanks guys, I will experiment with trying something like you have mentioned!


PS - awesome diagram, thanks! ;)

[Fatestitcher]

What is the best way to keep a graveyard in one pile and still have a good idea of what is in it, and allow my opponent to still know what is in it?

Thanks again!

This video from Japan "Legacy Champs '09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWi9adtDaMA)" shows how it's done horizontally and it looks pretty simple. Lay down the cards from left to right going down a line after each dredger. This way both players can see all the cards and it will be a breeze for you also to remember Ichorid triggers, keep track of Bridges, and if flashback spells/targets are already binned.

Hope this helped. Good Luck!

[Gocho]

I've never seen anyone keep a graveyard in a single pile since invasion block. Try laying it out horizontally below your land. Might be hard to explain, but you could try searching for some videos of people playing.

When I played Ichorid, I always keep my graveyard in a single pile.
I force myself to remember which relevant cards I had in it, so my opponent had to remember too.
He can see my graveyard when he wish, but most of the time he doesn't do a lot. I cast unexpected Cabal Therapies that I dredge in turn 1 many times.

[tyleredw]

When I played Ichorid, I always keep my graveyard in a single pile.
I force myself to remember which relevant cards I had in it, so my opponent had to remember too.
He can see my graveyard when he wish, but most of the time he doesn't do a lot. I cast unexpected Cabal Therapies that I dredge in turn 1 many times.

Do you at least keep it fanned out if your opponent requests it?

I've had opponents keep their Ichorid yard in a single pile, and refuse to fan it out, and its the biggest pain in the ass ever for people that actually want to pay attention. It wastes so much time, and generally makes the entire match annoying and less fun to play. Especially considering that playing against Ichorid in the first place isn't usually that enjoyable.


Actually, now that i think about it, is there a proper tournament guideline for something like that? If an opponent asks you to change your layout style to increase ease of visibility/information, are you actually allowed to turn them down? Or are you supposed to comply as long as it doesn't hinder your play style/gameplay?

[Gocho]

Do you at least keep it fanned out if your opponent requests it?


I'm not an asshole yet xD
But only two opponents request it in two months.

[Digital Devil]

Sorry to play Dread Return on this thread, but I recently bought the cards for a Dredge deck, and I wanted to ask a simple question.

Situation:
-Me with a random non-token creature, and Bridge from Below in my graveyard
-Opponent with a Spore Frog (or any other creature with a sacrifice effect)

I sac my random non-token creature to flashback a Cabal Therapy; in response, my opponent sacrifices his Frog. Do I still get the zombie token? What happen if instead there were 2+ Bridges in my 'yard? I ask this because I need some way to explain the process of token-spawning to other players, because I'm new to the deck and I think it would be harder for a non-experienced Dredge player like me say something correct to my opponent.

[MMogg]

As far as I know you don't get the token.

1) You sac your creature and the Bridge trigger goes on the stack
2) opponent responds by sacrificing Spore Frog, and the Bridge's trigger goes on the stack.
3) Opponent's resolves, Bridge is removed.
4) yours resolves, no Bridge, no token.

Same with multiple Bridges, it's just multiple triggers, but the same order.

God save me from the wrath of the judges for sticking my nose in if I am wrong. :laugh:

[stacker]

no to 1 or multiple bridges, here's a visual example of the stack

-your bridge trigger to get zombies
-cabal therapy

you pass priority, he sacs a creature

-his creature sac
-your bridge trigger to get zombie
-cabal therapy

the creature sac resolves

-his bridge trigger to rfg bridge
-your bridge trigger to get zombie
-cabal therapy

his bridge trigger resolves, bridge is removed

-your bridge trigger to get zombie
-cabal therapy

bridge rechecks to see if it's the in the gy "if bridge is the the gy...get zombies". it's not, you don't get zombies.

[Ecoris]

Slight correction: You control all bridge triggers. There is no such thing as the opponent's bridge triggers. This matters when both types of triggers have to be put on the stack at the same time.

[MMogg]

Slight correction: You control all bridge triggers. There is no such thing as the opponent's bridge triggers. This matters when both types of triggers have to be put on the stack at the same time.

What I meant was opponent-induced trigger of Bridge triggers. I was not implying they control the trigger. I left that out because that seemed like something he'd already know and I didn't want to complicate the explanation further by adding extra information/explanation. :smile: