[Question] - Chalice of the Void

[bakofried]

Now, I'm new to this whole SCD thing, and I'm unsure if this is even the right spot for it, but if is, then let me know and I'll request a mod to move it.

Now, generally, I've seen this card in Stax and in sideboards for people prepping against ANT. Now, why is it so potent? You'd have the chance to set it at either 0 or 1.

0 shuts off:
All their artifact mana. that's basically it.

1 shuts off:
Their protection.
Some of their answers. (i.e. Chain of Vapor)
One of the ritual effects.
Their tutors, and their draw/hand manipulation.

Which is better to set it to, on the play or the draw?

How does it hold up against other forms of hate, such as Ethersworn Canonist, Rule of Law, Thorn of Amethyst, Mindbreak Trap, and Duress/Thoughtseize? Is it superior, inferior, a good complement, what?

What else does it fight? It's good against Burn, Combo, and it's good against Reanimator, but is that all?

Basically, I'm trying to garner experience with this card, and I would like to know how it fits in. Again, thanks to all who read this, and if this is in the wrong place, my apologies.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

One more deck it's also pretty good against is Tempo Thresh.

Also, Stompy Decks get the added benefit from Chalice of protecting their creatures, since by far the most prevalent creature removal spells in the format all cost one mana.

[(nameless one)]

It also has been discussed to be used in other tribal decks that cannot compete against Zoo. Sure it shuts down their Vials but it also shuts down a lot of Zoo's creatures and removal.

[Jon Stewart]

It fits nicely in a Stax shell. :wink:

Seriously, Chalice is a staple in the format. If you happen to play a deck with 0 1cc cards and very few 2cc cards, you run 4 Chalice, no questions asked. Many decks even cut 1cc completely out of their lists in order to support playing it.

As for why, it shuts down all the cantrips that blue based decks play, it shuts down almost all of the removal (StP, Path, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning) that sees play in the format, and it slows down combo decks quite a bit. If you can set it at 2 to lock out Tarmogoyfs and Pridemages from entering play, that's also good.

[Nidd]

Against Combo, set the first Chalice @ 1 and the second one @ 0.
Chalice @ 1 shuts off large parts of the deck, including Mystical Tutor and Cantrips. Digging for answers becomes much harder then.

[Digital Devil]

I don't know about Stax, but I can certainly answer you by a Dragon Stompy perspective. If you have the chance to land an early moon effect (either Magus of the Moon or Blood Moon), I suggest you to play Chalice with 0 counters. This because Moon + Chalice @0 means your opponent is out of both black mana for acceleration and blue mana for cantrips. Also, moon + Chalice @0, if lucky, can be sneaked during your very first turn, making your opponent scoop as soon as he recognises he's screwed. I clearly remember a game I played vs. UBW ANT. We were 1-1, because both games were slow as hell (despite we were both playing fast decks), with him searching for an answer against my lock pieces, and me drawing more lands than 43 lands. We knew there wasn't much time left, so we rapidly shuffled our decks and when I clearly looked at my opening configuration, just a second before the judge could say "time", I dropped a fast moon + Chalice @0. "How to win a match in 10 seconds, Chapter 1". Also playing Angel Stompy, I always found myself more comfortable with an opening like Ancient Tomb (or Plains + Chrome Mox), Chalice @0 + Thorn of Amethyst (or Ethersworn Canonist). Unless in the case I had a lonely Chalice (most times), because then I was forced to set it @1, which is in no particular context a "better" play. I guess it simply depends on what your deck can offer, and how much you're willing to afford the risks. Now I don't play Chalice anymore, so my thoughts may be a bit outdated (and wrong, maybe).

[jrsthethird]

Ideally against storm you want to drop a Chalice at 0 first, and it will buy you time to find a Chalice for 1.

[kicks_422]

If you drop a Chalice at 0 first against Storm, the Storm player will surely find an answer to it before you find the second Chalice.. Unless you have the 2nd one in your hand, of course.

[bakofried]

Well, what do you drop it at if you're on the play? Or the draw?
I'm thinking that if it's turn one, you're on the draw, drop it at zero, and if it's turn 2, you're on the play, drop it at 1, but does this work? Should I hold out for that second turn if I'm on the play, or just hope they can't go off without artifact mana?

[jrsthethird]

If you drop a Chalice at 0 first against Storm, the Storm player will surely find an answer to it before you find the second Chalice.. Unless you have the 2nd one in your hand, of course.

It depends on the deck you're playing. If you're playing a deck like goblins or zoo where you can apply a lot of pressure early it might not matter if they can answer it or not. They might take enough damage from attacks to make an Ad Nauseum practically useless. The Chalice buys you time to get to that point.

[Nidd]

It depends on the deck you're playing. If you're playing a deck like goblins or zoo where you can apply a lot of pressure early it might not matter if they can answer it or not. They might take enough damage from attacks to make an Ad Nauseum practically useless. The Chalice buys you time to get to that point.
As if Ad nauseam would be the first thing to worry about for Aggro...

[bakofried]

In general, yes I'm speaking about Chalice's role in the sideboard of aggressive decks. Sorry if that wasn't made clear.

[DrJones]

I played Chalice of the Void in the sideboard of my aggro-combo deck until I moved it maindeck. Chalice of the Void is spectacularly good against combo deck, but it also slows down a lot of aggro decks while shutting off most removal spells. However, the reason that made me switch was that blue decks are downright abusive at the moment because they can use 4 brainstorm and 4 ponder to sculpt their hand and to avoid mana-screw/flood. Chalice of the Void at 1 leaves them mana-screwed, with +8 dead cards, and no way to change them for better cards. It also shuts down Sensei's Divining Top which kinda does the same thing. It was really needed to even things a little.