[Deck] The Gate

[Jacemindbreak]

Has anyone tried using a green splash in the deck for tarmogoyf and additional removal.

[lyracian]

Has anyone tried using a green splash in the deck for tarmogoyf and additional removal.
Yes. Go ask Eva...
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?8220-Deck-Eva-Green-B-g-suicide

[KobeBryan]

In the two flex slots...we should try playign Withered wretch

[Baldo]

Hi to all, this is my deck-list:

The Gate

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
2 Go for the Throat

2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Bitterblossom
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sensei's Divining Top

12 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog

61 Main Deck

3 Smother
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Extirpate
3 Engineered Plague
3 Phyrexian Revoker

15 Sideboard

These decks always get me to good standing on a legacy tournament! Last tournament 4-2 10th place, lost to Ivory stompy and Red Sligh... win to Dredge, Titan Ramp, Canadian Thresh and WG deck.. I been using the gate for every legacy event...: )

I need a more solid sideboard depend on the Meta, and my main deck is 61 cards? I choose this built to all around Meta in legacy...

Suggestions... Thanks!

[KobeBryan]

Hi to all, this is my deck-list:

The Gate

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
2 Go for the Throat

2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Bitterblossom
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sensei's Divining Top

12 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog

61 Main Deck

3 Smother
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Extirpate
3 Engineered Plague
3 Phyrexian Revoker

15 Sideboard

These decks always get me to good standing on a legacy tournament! Last tournament 4-2 10th place, lost to Ivory stompy and Red Sligh... win to Dredge, Titan Ramp, Canadian Thresh and WG deck.. I been using the gate for every legacy event...: )

I need a more solid sideboard depend on the Meta, and my main deck is 61 cards? I choose this built to all around Meta in legacy...

Suggestions... Thanks!

you do not need marsh flats or any fetchlands for that matter. It just hurts you more than it helps. just use basic swamps.

[j369fox]

Hello to all on this thread. I realy love this deck but cannot see how we can stay mono colored and hope to beat reanimater game 1 with them being able to get Iona in play so fast. If that archetype is around then we need to splah white for STP I believe.

I understand that this may open us up against some hate we are currently avoiding. I would rather take a wasteland after using my STP then just losing to Iona if she resolves wich is very possible game 1. We can just get them to top deck mode and they rip any reanimate spell we just lose. It gets even worse if we have a persecuter out. I have seen in the past the versions running macabre in the main and I dont want to take that route.

The splash is effectively 13 cards 9 land and 4 STP 4 marsh flats 4 scrublands and 1 plains. It is already known that we need some targeted removal ase well as our sacrifice effects so this should be an easy swap.

This will also give us access to vindicate in the sideboard if you want it...

I am planning on playing this at the Invitational this weekend (I won a qualifier) so any quick feedback would be greatly appreciated

[KobeBryan]

Hello to all on this thread. I realy love this deck but cannot see how we can stay mono colored and hope to beat reanimater game 1 with them being able to get Iona in play so fast. If that archetype is around then we need to splah white for STP I believe.

I understand that this may open us up against some hate we are currently avoiding. I would rather take a wasteland after using my STP then just losing to Iona if she resolves wich is very possible game 1. We can just get them to top deck mode and they rip any reanimate spell we just lose. It gets even worse if we have a persecuter out. I have seen in the past the versions running macabre in the main and I dont want to take that route.

The splash is effectively 13 cards 9 land and 4 STP 4 marsh flats 4 scrublands and 1 plains. It is already known that we need some targeted removal ase well as our sacrifice effects so this should be an easy swap.

This will also give us access to vindicate in the sideboard if you want it...

I am planning on playing this at the Invitational this weekend (I won a qualifier) so any quick feedback would be greatly appreciated

faerie macrabe

[j369fox]

faerie macrabe

I should have been more specific about my question then. What do you do against a resolved Iona?

I am running the faerie and i do see the power of the card but its in my sideboard.

[dsck]

I should have been more specific about my question then. What do you do against a resolved Iona?

I am running the faerie and i do see the power of the card but its in my sideboard.


Hollywood used to play Faerie Macabres maindeck. They are good against snapcasters and bunch of other stuff as well.

[KobeBryan]

I should have been more specific about my question then. What do you do against a resolved Iona?

I am running the faerie and i do see the power of the card but its in my sideboard.

thats when you scoop.

[j369fox]

thats when you scoop.

Yeah, that's exactly how it happened in round one of the invitational.

I like the deck allot, and it was fun to play thanks for the advice guys

I went 2/2 with the deck in the legacy rounds losing to reanimate and to a standstill/man land deck that I was not prepared for.

I beat u/w Stone blade very handedly, and won a close match with the u/r delver deck.

my personal opinion on the reanimate matchup is that you force yourself to run leylines in the sideboard, by doing that they have to wait a couple of turns to get echoing truth mana while you attempt to make them discard it every chance you get. If you can swing that the game is yours.

[KobeBryan]

Yeah, that's exactly how it happened in round one of the invitational.

I like the deck allot, and it was fun to play thanks for the advice guys

I went 2/2 with the deck in the legacy rounds losing to reanimate and to a standstill/man land deck that I was not prepared for.

I beat u/w Stone blade very handedly, and won a close match with the u/r delver deck.

my personal opinion on the reanimate matchup is that you force yourself to run leylines in the sideboard, by doing that they have to wait a couple of turns to get echoing truth mana while you attempt to make them discard it every chance you get. If you can swing that the game is yours.

From my experience, without dark ritual, you do not use leylines.

In your case, you should use faeries and extirpates. Graveyard decks are the bane of this deck...its best to dedicate maybe 5-6 sideboard slots for this matchup.

[DoomPenguin]

After taking a break from this deck for a bit, I think I'm going to play it in a tournament coming up and decided to trade in my Obliterators to make a more classic Persecutor build:

21 Swamp

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Innocent Blood
2 Victim of Night
1 Go for the Throat

2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Bitterblossom

SB:

4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing Needle
3 Perish
1 Bitterblossom
1 Cabal Therapy

So my main two questions are:

How essential/useful is Wasteland? I don't know if I feel like shelling out $200 for a playset but maybe someone can convince me otherwise. Do they ever reduce your consistency by mana screwing you when you need double black?

How do I SB for the Stoneblade match up? Various versions of this deck are really popular where I play and I've gotten better at playing against them but it still is a losing battle. Usually I want to side in Extirpate, Needle, and the extra Bitterblossom and Cabal Therapy but I can never figured out the best things to side out. Any recommendations?

Any other general comments/suggestions are welcome too. Thanks.

[j369fox]

From my experience, without dark ritual, you do not use leylines.

In your case, you should use faeries and extirpates. Graveyard decks are the bane of this deck...its best to dedicate maybe 5-6 sideboard slots for this matchup.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you on this. They are going to be bringing in thoughtsieze's to get your extirpates. Your going to lose game one most times so you'll be on the play with your discard. I think the leyline strategy is a sound one.

I was running faeries and extirpates in my sideboard. I even hade an extirpate in my opening hand so i kept. I played cabal therapy for fow and hit. He then took his turn thought siezed me and then got Iona out a turn later.

[KobeBryan]

After taking a break from this deck for a bit, I think I'm going to play it in a tournament coming up and decided to trade in my Obliterators to make a more classic Persecutor build:

21 Swamp

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Innocent Blood
2 Victim of Night
1 Go for the Throat

2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Bitterblossom

SB:

4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing Needle
3 Perish
1 Bitterblossom
1 Cabal Therapy

So my main two questions are:

How essential/useful is Wasteland? I don't know if I feel like shelling out $200 for a playset but maybe someone can convince me otherwise. Do they ever reduce your consistency by mana screwing you when you need double black?

How do I SB for the Stoneblade match up? Various versions of this deck are really popular where I play and I've gotten better at playing against them but it still is a losing battle. Usually I want to side in Extirpate, Needle, and the extra Bitterblossom and Cabal Therapy but I can never figured out the best things to side out. Any recommendations?

Any other general comments/suggestions are welcome too. Thanks.

Yes...wastelands are annoying when I need the double black...thats why I would never run obliterator in this deck. Getting to 4 lands is pretty tough...then you have to consider 4 Blacks....

Why do you want to side in extirpate, needle, and bitterblossoms against stoneblade...thats not that good, especially against a BW stoneblade.

[KobeBryan]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you on this. They are going to be bringing in thoughtsieze's to get your extirpates. Your going to lose game one most times so you'll be on the play with your discard. I think the leyline strategy is a sound one.

I was running faeries and extirpates in my sideboard. I even hade an extirpate in my opening hand so i kept. I played cabal therapy for fow and hit. He then took his turn thought siezed me and then got Iona out a turn later.

Then continue using leylines, if it gets bounced turn 2...have fun waiting until turn 4 to recast it, that is without it being dazed, FOWed, and whatever fun counters they have.

This is the same argument as "but it dies to removal"

[j369fox]

Then continue using leylines, if it gets bounced turn 2...have fun waiting until turn 4 to recast it, that is without it being dazed, FOWed, and whatever fun counters they have.

This is the same argument as "but it dies to removal"

This is why I chose the word disagree, Your exact example of it getting bounced turn two is the "it dies to removal speech". I was stating that we are running 11 discard spells main deck and will be on the play 90% of the time in this case. The discard you have is even stronger game 2.

This is why sideboard's are preference. You are choosing to be weak to discard and i am choosing to be weak to bounce effects. I am not arguing with you i was stating my real time experiance and the play that I believe to be the better approach.

[j369fox]

After taking a break from this deck for a bit, I think I'm going to play it in a tournament coming up and decided to trade in my Obliterators to make a more classic Persecutor build:

21 Swamp

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Innocent Blood
2 Victim of Night
1 Go for the Throat

2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Bitterblossom

SB:

4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing Needle
3 Perish
1 Bitterblossom
1 Cabal Therapy

So my main two questions are:

How essential/useful is Wasteland? I don't know if I feel like shelling out $200 for a playset but maybe someone can convince me otherwise. Do they ever reduce your consistency by mana screwing you when you need double black?

How do I SB for the Stoneblade match up? Various versions of this deck are really popular where I play and I've gotten better at playing against them but it still is a losing battle. Usually I want to side in Extirpate, Needle, and the extra Bitterblossom and Cabal Therapy but I can never figured out the best things to side out. Any recommendations?

Any other general comments/suggestions are welcome too. Thanks.

I am running 22 land to make up for use of wasteland. In my limited experiance with u/w stoneblade I was able to keep them off the mana they need using wasteland for a couple of turns. This leads to us being able to focus on their hand to disrupt. If they land a stoneforge they will get batterskull most of the time. This will give you a shot with innocent blood to kill the mystic and to get at the batterskull with discard.

[DoomPenguin]

I suppose I was thinking more about UW Stoneblade builds. I'll try to explain my choices:

Extirpate: These decks leans hardcore on a few staple cards and Extirpating them can severely harm them, also screws Snapcaster
Pithing Needle: Shuts off equipment, Jace, Elspeth, manlands, Riptide Laboratory and a host of others
Bitterblossom: This card is a house against most control decks, I've won on its back many a time

I'm totally open to suggestions or recommendations though so please any input is great

[j369fox]

I suppose I was thinking more about UW Stoneblade builds. I'll try to explain my choices:

Extirpate: These decks leans hardcore on a few staple cards and Extirpating them can severely harm them, also screws Snapcaster
Pithing Needle: Shuts off equipment, Jace, Elspeth, manlands, Riptide Laboratory and a host of others
Bitterblossom: This card is a house against most control decks, I've won on its back many a time

I'm totally open to suggestions or recommendations though so please any input is great

Bitterblossom landing very early can just win for you. I side in a sword of light and shadow. Equip to vampire nighthawk, and block batterskull with gatekeeper and recycle him and you win. pithing needle can work but i feel you are better being aggressive.

[maktus]

I use against stoneblade: 2-3 Manriki-Gusari in sb;

I use against reanimator: 3-4 Coffin Purge, why?
1-if you discard it, you can use it again
2- counter - you can use it again
3- if you play, you can use it again

You can use too 1 karakas and 2-3 phyrexian metamorph (many legends in reanimator)

[nightmaster]

I am going to be playing in a tournament in a couple weeks and I am pretty sure I am going to play this deck. However, my experience with it right now is limited so I could use some suggestions. The meta is unknown since I have never played there before so expect the usual decks. Here is my list:

Creatures:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Bitterblossom
2 Faerie Macabre

Spells:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Victim of Night
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Land:
22 Swamp

SB:
4 Deathmark
4 Pithing Needle
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Aside from general suggestions I have a couple questions. First, 3 or 4 Obliterators? I was playing 4 originally but decided to up blossom from 2 to 3 so I cut 1 Obliterator. Should I bring it back up to 4 since it is just so good? And speaking of blossom, is 3 the right number? Like I said I originally had 2 but it just didn't feel like enough and I wanted more consistent creatures and 2 drops. Third, I have seen people run 2-4 equipment in the main. Currently I have 2 Jitte main with 1 in the board (Could change to a sword instead). Should I consider moving the last main or leave it in the board? Finally, I have 2 Faerie Macabre main but I am not sure how much I like them main. Also, I only have 8 discard. And with the possible changes mentioned above, the Faeries should probably come out to make room for other things?

Thoughts on any of this? Thanks for any help you can provide.

[maktus]

what do you think to use bloodline keeper in place of obliterators and persecutors?

[timmycolossus]

Hey guys I am new to the gate. I have not tested these cards but I have a question about them.

What do you guys think about tragic slip in the deck?

What do you think about lashwrithe in the deck?

Why play Obliterator or persecutor? adv/dis of both... meta call?

Is new lilanna good in the gate and why?

What is the big problem with reanimator other than iona? We are playing black and have a lot of gy hate we can put in the board.

What are the best tools against combo? There is a lot of combo in my meta.

Thanks guys.

[lyracian]

Hey guys I am new to the gate. I have not tested these cards but I have a question about them.
What do you guys think about tragic slip in the deck?
I like the card since it can kill just about anying, but so can Innocent Blood. It is worth trying out but looks too conditional.


What do you think about lashwrithe in the deck?
Living Weapon is nice but it has no evasion and is expensive to use. Would you rather draw this or Obliterator/persecutor


Why play Obliterator or persecutor? adv/dis of both... meta call?
Obliterator costs four black which can be an issue if you have Wastelands and dies to Dismember.
Flying vs Sacing cards means both are rarely blocked.
Of course you do not need to kill your own Obliterator to win and it is better if you see a lot of burn used as removal and as a deterent to opponents attacking.


Is new lilanna good in the gate and why?
Yes she kills stuff and is more discard vs Combo.


What is the big problem with reanimator other than iona? We are playing black and have a lot of gy hate we can put in the board.Countermagic? They have 7-10 creatures most of which you have to kill quickly or they win. This deck runs enough kill spells; so long as you can land one. Play around Daze.


What are the best tools against combo? There is a lot of combo in my meta.
Discard, Discard,Discard its all you have got.

[necrowil]

I’ve come to the conclusion that Phyrexian Obliterator is just too slow for the current environment. Even when I had 4 Dark Ritual and 4 Phyrexian Tower to get him into play fast he can be stopped by a wide array of cards. Good players really are not worried about him. By the time you get him down, your opponent is usually way ahead of you with more efficient cards like Stoneforge Mystic, Knight of Reliquary and Batterskull. Running Confidant makes revealing him dangerous as well.

I could be wrong but Liliana of the Veil is one of the best cards black has to offer. I can’t see not playing at least 3. I run 4 personally, as I always want to see her. Liliana answers so many things the deck has problems with and vs. control, it is a nightmare for them. Only issue is you should play your creatures first then Lil for maximum effect as you may want to block. Her -6 effect will come effect from time to time. She singlehandedly destroys their hand AND creatures if played early. Yet another argument for running Dark Ritual. Another reason to play Lil is she forces your opponent to heavily sideboard against her which works in our favor games 2 and 3.

Gatekeeper of Malakir is slow and on top of that it is not a threat once it is in play. I have replaced this card with Liliana and never looked back. Haven’t missed them at all. First of all, you don’t have to wait for your opponent to play a creature. And no one is threatened at all by it once it is play. The fact that it costs BBB for a 2/2 also slows this deck down even more. Especially if you choose to not run Dark Ritual.

[necrowil]

another thing you may want to consider running in the sideboard especially if your run dark ritual is Extinction. Merfolk has 8 guys which pump of their fish. They could care less about Engineered Plague. Same with most goblin decks. Yeah it costs 5 but it kills everything. 3 or 4 should be good. Just not sure what to cut for it at the moment.

[Michael Keller]

another thing you may want to consider running in the sideboard especially if your run dark ritual is Extinction. Merfolk has 8 guys which pump of their fish. They could care less about Engineered Plague. Same with most goblin decks. Yeah it costs 5 but it kills everything. 3 or 4 should be good. Just not sure what to cut for it at the moment.

Extinction is terrible. By the time you have access to play a card like that, you should already either be in a dominating board position or have access to cheaper, more effective removal. It does nothing that the deck's already ten to twelve removal spells can't already handle, and all it does it take up valuable space in the sideboard.

If you're going to run a sideboard card against Tribal, for the love of God play Engineered Plague. I don't play this deck anymore, but if you're all serious about trying to bump it up a notch competitively, then you'll have to do better than relegate yourselves to playing better cards than Extinction in the sideboard.

[necrowil]

Hollywood is of course right. For even more reasons then he stated. I would say the only reason this deck is worth exploring at this point is Liliana of the Veil. Just trying to find a worthy tier version out there. This is the most viable current version I have now.

Sideboard
4 Withered Wretch
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Perish
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Darkblast (may switch these to 2 Bojuka Bog)

Main
8 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
4 Cabal Pit
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Bitterblossom
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Bloodghast
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Vampire Nighthawk

Gone are Obliterator, Gatekeeper, additional discard except in the sideboard and some removal. The extra discard seemed excessive after adding Hypnotic Specter and Liliana of the Veil. Plus I love Cabal Therapy over all the other 1cc discard spells out there. Works well with Bitterblossom and Bloodghast. Ghasts are there for control. Cabal Pit is really because I can’t stand Mother of Runes, Etched Champion, and Mirran Crusader. But they work on Delver’s and other annoying cards as well. The fetchlands are for Bloodghast mostly. And yeah 20 land is what it is but nothing costs more then 3 in the deck.

Peace.

I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame.”
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer

[KobeBryan]

Has anyone tried running The Abyss as a one of in the sideboard.

Helps with the persecutor and gets rid of some annoying creatures as well. Similar to dystopia but we got bitterblossom to handle some of the creature loss.

[Michael Keller]

Has anyone tried running The Abyss as a one of in the sideboard.

Helps with the persecutor and gets rid of some annoying creatures as well. Similar to dystopia but we got bitterblossom to handle some of the creature loss.

The Abyss and Dystopia are not similar in their appropriated uses; Dystopia knocks off problematic enchantments and is purely one-sided in your favor. The Abyss as a one-of does nothing that removal can't already do faster and is just too cute as a singleton - in addition to being way over-costed at four mana for the slot.

[maktus]

The Abyss and Dystopia are not similar in their appropriated uses; Dystopia knocks off problematic enchantments and is purely one-sided in your favor. The Abyss as a one-of does nothing that removal can't already do faster and is just too cute as a singleton - in addition to being way over-costed at four mana for the slot.

I was thinking of using:
-4 persecutors
+3 Magus of the Abyss
+1 blossom (total 4)

[Greenpoe]

Magus of the Abyss is really, really bad. If you want to kill creatures that badly, you're going to want a full set of Liliana, Royal Assasin or Damnation before Magus of the Abyss.

[MoxBropal]

Hey guys, I'm new to Legacy and just built the Gate. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on some things...

- Is Bloodghast worth a slot because of its interaction with Cabal Therapy?
- Is a small green splash for Krosan Grip (from the board) worth doing to deal with a resolved Batterskull?
- I noticed a lot of the lists are running 21 lands. This seems light to me if we wanna curve out to a 4-drop. Right now I'm running 24. Am I running too many?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[maktus]

Hey guys, I'm new to Legacy and just built the Gate. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on some things...

- Is Bloodghast worth a slot because of its interaction with Cabal Therapy?
- Is a small green splash for Krosan Grip (from the board) worth doing to deal with a resolved Batterskull?
- I noticed a lot of the lists are running 21 lands. This seems light to me if we wanna curve out to a 4-drop. Right now I'm running 24. Am I running too many?

Thanks in advance for the help.

To deal whit batterskull you can use manriki-gusari or destroy it and use needle. If you want green splash I suggest nic fit.

[necrowil]

Posting here part of what I posted on Suicide as it seems relevant.

Geralf’s Messenger is by far the best beat down creature black has gotten for a long time. Its expensive yeah, but you can play him with Dark Ritual which in my opinion makes him far superior to Obliterator. There are many reasons why this is a must play 3-4 of in Suicide Black. It does many things Suicide needs to do. First, when it comes into play it deals 2 life. This becomes important if your opponent has some type of lock on the board. If you run Cabal Therapy and Phyrexian Tower it can deal another 2 life. This card is the anti-Kitchen Finks. This becomes even more important as there are few things black has that deal damage or life for that matter directly to the opponent. Its something they will have to worry about.

Next, it swings for 3 damage which many 3 casting cost black creature do not do. This becomes a significant tempo swing when the thing is automatically dealing 4 life off the bat. I’m sure every Suicide player can recall many games where some fool with Islands in his deck stabilized at some low life number and came back to win. Swinging for 3 is dramatically different then a beating from a 2/2. If you have another zombie out there you are hitting for 5 a turn. That’s a lot different then hitting for 4.

Last it is basically immune to Diabolic Edict and sacrifice effects like Gatekeeper of Malakir or Liliana of the Veil. This is very important in the current format as it can live through the effect and swing on Liliana for 4. It lives through destroy effects. How good is that?

That’s a lot all in one card. I recommend playing 4 and some ways to sacrifice it like Cabal Therapy or/and Phyrexian Tower. It has lifted my decks win ratio dramatically.

Just food for thought.

Peace.

Necrowil

I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame.”
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer

[Baldo]

Hi to all, i will try this deck list.. hope you can reply some suggestion.. thanks! :cool:

Vindi-Gate

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshare
3 Vindicate

2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Bitterblossom
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

8 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine

60 Main Deck


3 Perish
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Extirpate
3 Engineered Plague
3 Pithing Needle

15 Sideboard

[Oiolosse]

Take that to the Deadguy forum. The Gate is mono black, that's a tenant.

[lyracian]

Hi to all, i will try this deck list.. hope you can reply some suggestion.. thanks! :cool:
Vindi-Gate
I played a Gate deck and lost in the finals last night against Birthing Pod and was wondering about adding a white splash. While this deck has been traditionally mono-black perpaphs it is time to talk about splashes?

As for your deck; I think you have too many Abyssal Persecutor's since you rarely want a second one. The only other card I would want in your deck is Lilly.

[dsck]

Hi to all, i will try this deck list.. hope you can reply some suggestion.. thanks! :cool:

Vindi-Gate

4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk

4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshare
3 Vindicate

2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Bitterblossom
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

8 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine

60 Main Deck


3 Perish
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Extirpate
3 Engineered Plague
3 Pithing Needle

15 Sideboard

If you splash white Lingering Souls is better than Bitterblossom IMO.

[Vastros]

If you splash white Lingering Souls is better than Bitterblossom IMO.

Lingering souls doesn't give the continuous board advantage that BB does though.

[MaximumC]

So, I took The Gate out for a spin at a small Legacy tourney. I ended up in a five-way-tie for first among eight players. And, of course, I got ranked fifth due to tie breakers. HIGHWAY ROBBERY. Oh well, first place was ten bux store credit, so I don't feel too screwed out of anything. ;)

It was this one: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23202-Denver-CO-Legacy-Tournament-March-4th-at-2-00-pm

Here's what I ran:

Creatures:
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Abyssal Persecutor

Spells:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Torach
4 Duress
4 Innocent Blood

Enchantments:
3 Bitterblossom

Artifacts:
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Land:
4 Wasteland
17 Swamps

Sideboard:
3 Dystopia
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Engineered Plague

MATCHUPS (2 - 1 Overall)

ROUND 1 - MERFOLK - Loss ( 1 - 2)

Game 1 - I open with a land, duress, and see he's playing Merfolk. He has no vial, so I take a Daze. I yank another Daze or a force next turn, but then get stuck on two lands for three turns while he starts landing merfolks and drawing cards. By the time I start actually playing the game, I'm too far behind and I get snowed under.

Game 2 - The deck does what it is supposed to do. I manhandle his counterspells with discard effects, and start resolving threats. Once Percy joins the fight, It's all over. He wins the race with a turn to spare and then gets sacced to Cabal Therapy.

Game 3 - Another game, another manascrew. Stuck on one land after mulling to five. He's on the play, and for the first time, he has the first turn Aether Vial. By the time I start playing, hes' got massive board advantage and I can't kill his creatures faster than he's vialing em into play. During this game, my opponent forgets to charge his vial during one turn before drawing, then flips shit when I refuse to let him have "take backs" to charge it up. Kids, don't do this. When you misplay, your opponent might let you take back. That's fine. But they might not, and they do not have to. (And, no, you can't blame your opponent for failing to announce they were passing priority during your upkeep after the vial's trigger if you already drew and looked at your card, bro.) Just take it in stride, and remember not to make the mistake in the future.

ROUND 2 - Reanimator - WIN (2 - 1)

Game 1 - Not much to say here. As with alot of combo matchups, The Gate is a big ol' stinker. I duress away his discard outlet after seeing two horrible monsters, two reanimates, and one careful study in his hand. Then he top decks another one, and terribad things happen to me that turn.

Game 2 - I mulligan into Faerie, and wait for him to try something. He does, and then sadfaces all over the place when I nuke his graveyard from orbit. Bitterblossom born picks up a Jitte and finishes him off.

Game 3 - Discard effects stop him from ever being able to reanimate anything. Not that it mattered, because I eventually draw all four Faeries. Set, match.

ROUND 3 - Fire & Lightning Burn (Win 2 - 1)

Game 1 - The guy was literally playing Fire & Lightning Deck right out of the box. Score! Anyway, game one I get burned to death.

Game 2 - Not sure how to sideboard. I bring in Thorns, Crusader, and one Faerie and send out the Innocent Bloods and something else. I draw enough early discard to stop him from burning me much, but he hammers me down below 10 with hasty red creatures and a figure of destiny. Then Crusader joins the party and eats his entire team. Pro-red just murders his entire board and blanks most of his deck long enough for me to get a creature advantage and finish him.

Game 3 - I send the thorns away and bring back the Bloods, realizing that he has lots of land but I need ways to kill early figures. I land an early Crusader after being burned down to 5, and eat a bolt to the face down to 2... but then I get Nighthawk going and he doesn't topdeck the critical final burn spell. Huzzah!

CONCLUSION

The only match I played against a "real deck" was Merfolk, and I lost. But, I've played them in the past, and won just as easily; it all comes down to whether you can pick their hand apart in the early game and keep their creature count under control. Once there are three merfolk lords in play, it's all over. Even the reanimator deck was slower than it should have been, since the player was using M10 duals. That wouldnt have mattered, though, as he had no answer to Faerie.

Note that Grafdigger's Cage would have LOST to reanimator. When I used Faeire, he initially tried to cast Spell Pierce. This was wrong on a number of levels, but the critical thing was that Faeire's discard ability cannot be countered as a spell. Cage can be. That's HUGE against stopping Reanimator from biding its time and then killing your permanent and going off with Force protection. I suppose it's worse against targeted discard, but I saw none of that.

Finally, I have been a HUGE fan of Phyrexian Crusader for awhile now, and it makes me very happy whenever my biases are confirmed. Here, I was probably dead in the water against Burn except that I had a big'ol pro-red wall to blank his creatures. Things would have been different if he was straight dumb burn instead of the sligh-variant in Fire and Ice, but remember that a TON of burn players are running creatures as well as spells anyway. (They're wrong if they do so!)

[Mr. Safety]

I've been lurking this thread for a while, and I have started putting together a list. This is where I'm starting, and I'd like some feedback.

4x Bloodghast
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Abyssal Persecutor
3x Tombstalker
4x Dark Ritual
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Smallpox
4x Innocent Blood
2x Phyrexian Arena
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Wasteland
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
17x Swamp

Rough Sideboard
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Deathmark
3x Shriekmaw
4x Duress
4x Leyline of the Void

[lyracian]

Having both Abyssal Persecutor & Tombstalker seems an excessive about of big monsters. Also you no not really want to draw multipule copies of Percy so I would drop down to 2-3 copies.

[Mr. Safety]

My thinking was this:

1) I only have 15 creatures in the deck as it is, which seems a little low for an aggro deck. Having 4 Percy's means I should have a decent chance of drawing one.

2) Smallpox hits me just as much as my opponent...I don't want to miss an opportunity to throw Smallpox down just because Persecutor is my only threat on the battlefield. Having 4 copies gives me access to drawing into another one.

That's what I was thinking anyways...I'd appreciate more feedback!

[Michael Keller]

If you splash white Lingering Souls is better than Bitterblossom IMO.

Lingering Souls is a mana investment that a deck like this cannot afford to have. You want quality threats with quality removal; Lingering Souls only prohibits that by forcing you to tap out to make a few tokens when Bitterblossom acts on its own without having to tap anything except for the initial cost. Not very good here.

[dsck]

Lingering Souls is a mana investment that a deck like this cannot afford to have. You want quality threats with quality removal; Lingering Souls only prohibits that by forcing you to tap out to make a few tokens when Bitterblossom acts on its own without having to tap anything except for the initial cost. Not very good here.

I didnt take the mana investment into account for some reason, but if you curve out with t1 discard (could be thoughtseize if you remove bitterblossoms), t2 confidant/hymn, t3 Lingering souls, t4 flashback + play another cmc2 spell. You get 4 bodies out of 1 card, I dont know whats the average you gain from Bitterblossom before you win but its probably a lot more?

I wouldnt splash white if I was playing The Gate though.

[MaximumC]

I've been lurking this thread for a while, and I have started putting together a list. This is where I'm starting, and I'd like some feedback.

4x Bloodghast
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Abyssal Persecutor
3x Tombstalker
4x Dark Ritual
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Smallpox
4x Innocent Blood
2x Phyrexian Arena
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Wasteland
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
17x Swamp

Rough Sideboard
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Deathmark
3x Shriekmaw
4x Duress
4x Leyline of the Void


You’re not really playing The Gate.

The whole point of The Gate is that every card generates card advantage on its own, allowing you to slowly pull ahead while playing control. The fact that you include Dark Ritual is controversial enough, but the rest of your deck choices mean you’re playing straight-up black aggro, not The Gate’s unique aggro-control game. I see your list as a hodgepodge of good cards from Suiblack, Gate, and Pox decks, without any clear focus.

Looking at the choices I disagree with:

Bloodghast - I can see the potential for a recurring creature to generate advantage. The problem is that a random 2/1 body that can’t block can be ignored by most decks you fear. Compare this to Dark Confidant and Bitterblossom, neither of which can be safely ignored or they will quickly overwhelm your opponent.

Geralf’s Messenger - Again, this is a recurring threat and I see the potential. I don’t think this competes for the slot currently occupied by Gatekeeper, because again, Messanger can be ignored by many decks wheres Gatekeeper is always a live draw, huge threat, and game ender with Percy. He has the same cost as Nighthawk and Crusader, but not really competes with them, because those cards solve specific problems that Messenger does not solve. This is just a big dumb beater. I think he ACTUALLY competes with Phyrexian Obliterator for the “Big, dumb, high black cc” slot. Once you draw that comparison, I think it’s a pretty simple step to decide that he’s just inferior to Olbliterator in the decks that would run him, so he’s out. He has combo applications though, to be sure.

Tombstalker - There is a case to be made for running Tombstalker if you’re running Dark Rituals. If you’ve Durressed, you can ritual him out on turn 3, which is a turn faster than Percy. Ultimately, I dislike him because he requires a huge commitment of resources that Percy does not, and that one point of P/T will matter when you’re blocking goyfs or flying Merfolk lords.

Smallpox - If you know there are a lot of combo elves in your meta, this is a killer sideboard choice. Nuking the land and the first mana elf in a deck with only 16 lands is often GG. Beyond that, this is a poor choice for The Gate. You ideally are earning card advantage off of every card you play; the symmetry on this card breaks against you.

Pyrexian Arena - Too slow. Bob exists. ‘Nuff said.

I think what you really want to be running is a streamlined Pox list. You’ve got lots of creatures that are resilient to pox effects, for example. Get rid of the Percies, Arenas, Therapies, some of the Messengers, and Urborgs. Add Pox, Sinkhole, maybe Totem, and other Pox staples and call it a day. If your deck is focused, it can far better accomplish it’s goal.

[Mr. Safety]

Gotcha...I'll lurk some other mono-black aggro threads and read up on Suicide Black. Thanks for the response!

[RKPW]

I scrub'd out of day 2 at GP indy, and had to give my friend cards he lent me for maverick, but I still wanted to play some legacy. So I registered this list for a side event at the GP.

Went 3-2-1, lost my win and in for the top 8 against an Astral Slide deck.

The deck was thrown together 30 minutes before registration was gonna end, and I also just threw a random board together. But it performed well, and had I known what astral slide would do, I might've had a better chance. But the deck just ran the nuts, loved my matches.

The sideboard was a little off, because I had no intention of playing this deck this weekend, but i'll post the board i played, and my revised list as well.

Main
Lands
17 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Creatures:
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk

Spells:
3 Bitterblossom
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Deathmark
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Thoughtseize
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
1 Planar Void
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
3 Null Rod
2 Bad Moon
2 Perish
1 Powder Keg
1 Mindbreak Trap

Maindeck deathmarks and faerie macabre's were really good. There were only 2 matches where deathmark couldn't hit something, and I liked faerie macabre, for shrinking KoTR, and hosing snapcasters, and if she has no use, just cast her as a beater.

Round 1: 1-2 u/w blade w/o stoneforges.
this guy went on to win the whole side event, but he told me that our first match was his most difficult match of the day about 5 rounds in when he was still undefeated. game two he mull'd to 5. I turn one a blind cabal therapy naming spell snare and rip his hand down to 3, hitting TWO spell snares, he revealed 3 lands. Somehow he still came back to win it. game 1 I won, he scooped to a Nighthawk equipped with a Sword of Light and Shadow

I boarded wrong, not knowing he wasn't playing stoneforge so I brought in null rods that were just dead cards. He had no idea what I was playing, game 1, and thought it was pox.

Round 2: 2-1 g/w Maverick
such an easy match up, maindeck deathmarks were insane. I lost game one, game two perish, practically was an armageddon as he mulled to 5, had a one lander and two heirarchs,. Wasteland locked the game up. Similar game 3 .

Round 3: 1-1-0 43 lands
this was my draw, game one he had me locked with ports and recurring ghost quarters. Game 2 extirpate hits life from the loam, and punishing fire. Pithing Needle names maze of ith and nighthawks take the game in the air. but that match went to time.

Round 4: u/w counterbalance 2-0
his list was running artifact lands and etched champion as a win condition. edicts were way good ;) game two he pops a tezzeret ultimate on turn three putting him at 32, and me at 8. Pithing needle comes down naming Top. Landing 3 Nighthawks through a counterbalance wins the game with me at 19 life at the end.

Round 5: RUG Tempo 2-0
Another super great match up, can't ride to victory on a nimble mongoose. and delver won't swing into my fliers. Game one I see all 4 wastelands, and win the game really easily. Game two, Persecutor takes him to -5, and flashing back cabal therapy wins the game.

Round 6: Junk colored Astral Slide (win and in to top 8) 0-2
Game one he practically steals with a turn 2 Lilana off of Mox Diamonds. Game two, I actually got to see what his stupid tricks with Astral Slide were, basically phasing eternal witness, and blowing everything with maelstrom pulse, and by the time extirpate hits it, it was too late.


Over all, I was thoroughly happy with the deck. A lot of people were watching my matches, and the deck is super fun. I like cutting persecutor down to 2, because flipping him to bob really hurts sometimes, and macabre and deathmark should be mainboard for now IMO. I ran a Sword of Light and Shadow over the 3rd Jitte mainly cuz I feel that's too many, plus the lifegain is nice to compensate for all the life loss to self. Not bad recurring anything that dies either.

Definetely going to tweak this list up and test it some more, because I feel there is serious potential for this deck in the current meta. I wish I played it in the GP haha!

[woodjt5]

Hello all,

I am qualified for the SCG Invitational in a few weeks and I need a legacy deck for the event that I can put together without shelling out hundred of dollars. I have a lot of the cards for the Gate and am considering running it for the event. I know the format pretty well (I play Elves, Affinity, and Goblins online) but I don't have access to duals in paper.

I have a few questions for you guys if you don't mind:

1. I have a playset of Lilianas....is she worth it (at least in some number)?

2. How are the Delver, stoneblade, and Maverick match-ups? These seem to be the most popular decks and I want to be packing something that is at least competitive against them.

3. Can this deck beat belcher or high tide? Ever? It seems like there are little to no answers available for those decks.

4. Why should I run the Gate? (besides the fact that I can afford it).

Thanks in advance for any information you are willing to share.

[KobeBryan]

Lingering Souls is a mana investment that a deck like this cannot afford to have. You want quality threats with quality removal; Lingering Souls only prohibits that by forcing you to tap out to make a few tokens when Bitterblossom acts on its own without having to tap anything except for the initial cost. Not very good here.

Listen to this man. Another reason not to run lingering souls is because you are wasteland proof. This is very important.

[wert]

I have been running this version for a while, and having playtested with most of viable options, this is what I feel most satisfied with.

It is slow and the slow clock has let opportunities to win slip at times. But it is fairly capable against a decent range of decks.

It geared towards control and Liliana of the Veil was the last addition which I am not 100% sure as it does things the deck already do well. Batterskull is card that don't really fit as it has to be hardcasted. But I feel the lifelink is useful and there are no better creatures there at that range.

//Lands
18 Swamp
2 Bojuka Bog
//Discards
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
//Removal
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Victim of Night
//Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Phyrexian Revoker
//Enchantments
3 Bitterblossom
//Artifacts
1 Batterskull
2 Umezawa's Jitte
//Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil

//Sideboard
4 Extirpate
4 Infest
3 Null Rod
4 Leyline of the Void

Any suggestions and comments welcome.

[dsck]

Hello all,

I am qualified for the SCG Invitational in a few weeks and I need a legacy deck for the event that I can put together without shelling out hundred of dollars. I have a lot of the cards for the Gate and am considering running it for the event. I know the format pretty well (I play Elves, Affinity, and Goblins online) but I don't have access to duals in paper.

I have a few questions for you guys if you don't mind:

1. I have a playset of Lilianas....is she worth it (at least in some number)?

2. How are the Delver, stoneblade, and Maverick match-ups? These seem to be the most popular decks and I want to be packing something that is at least competitive against them.

3. Can this deck beat belcher or high tide? Ever? It seems like there are little to no answers available for those decks.

4. Why should I run the Gate? (besides the fact that I can afford it).

Thanks in advance for any information you are willing to share.

1. Dont know, she seems good in loam/jund/punishing fire decks

2. Good against tempo decks and even against Maverick. Stoneblade is bad matchup.

3. Cabal Therapy + Hymn are both important here. Also depends if you are on the draw or on the play.

4. Its fun deck to play. Smashing face with Persecutor is priceless.

[KobeBryan]

1. Dont know, she seems good in loam/jund/punishing fire decks

2. Good against tempo decks and even against Maverick. Stoneblade is bad matchup.

3. Cabal Therapy + Hymn are both important here. Also depends if you are on the draw or on the play.

4. Its fun deck to play. Smashing face with Persecutor is priceless.

I really wouldn't worry about high tide or belcher.

You really aren't going to run into it. if you are, that will be your bad matchup.

against maverick, you gotta board correctly with massacre. This card hurts them much more than it hurts you

stoneblade, you better pack some more duresses in your sideboard. They have very limited creatures so you gotta fight your way through with your bitterblossom, which is KEY in this matchup

[ThediscoPower]

So, I took The Gate out for a spin at a small Legacy tourney. I ended up in a five-way-tie for first among eight players. And, of course, I got ranked fifth due to tie breakers. HIGHWAY ROBBERY. Oh well, first place was ten bux store credit, so I don't feel too screwed out of anything. ;)

It was this one: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23202-Denver-CO-Legacy-Tournament-March-4th-at-2-00-pm

Here's what I ran:

Creatures:
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Abyssal Persecutor

Spells:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Torach
4 Duress
4 Innocent Blood

Enchantments:
3 Bitterblossom

Artifacts:
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Land:
4 Wasteland
17 Swamps

Sideboard:
3 Dystopia
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Engineered Plague

MATCHUPS (2 - 1 Overall)

ROUND 1 - MERFOLK - Loss ( 1 - 2)

Game 1 - I open with a land, duress, and see he's playing Merfolk. He has no vial, so I take a Daze. I yank another Daze or a force next turn, but then get stuck on two lands for three turns while he starts landing merfolks and drawing cards. By the time I start actually playing the game, I'm too far behind and I get snowed under.

Game 2 - The deck does what it is supposed to do. I manhandle his counterspells with discard effects, and start resolving threats. Once Percy joins the fight, It's all over. He wins the race with a turn to spare and then gets sacced to Cabal Therapy.

Game 3 - Another game, another manascrew. Stuck on one land after mulling to five. He's on the play, and for the first time, he has the first turn Aether Vial. By the time I start playing, hes' got massive board advantage and I can't kill his creatures faster than he's vialing em into play. During this game, my opponent forgets to charge his vial during one turn before drawing, then flips shit when I refuse to let him have "take backs" to charge it up. Kids, don't do this. When you misplay, your opponent might let you take back. That's fine. But they might not, and they do not have to. (And, no, you can't blame your opponent for failing to announce they were passing priority during your upkeep after the vial's trigger if you already drew and looked at your card, bro.) Just take it in stride, and remember not to make the mistake in the future.

ROUND 2 - Reanimator - WIN (2 - 1)

Game 1 - Not much to say here. As with alot of combo matchups, The Gate is a big ol' stinker. I duress away his discard outlet after seeing two horrible monsters, two reanimates, and one careful study in his hand. Then he top decks another one, and terribad things happen to me that turn.

Game 2 - I mulligan into Faerie, and wait for him to try something. He does, and then sadfaces all over the place when I nuke his graveyard from orbit. Bitterblossom born picks up a Jitte and finishes him off.

Game 3 - Discard effects stop him from ever being able to reanimate anything. Not that it mattered, because I eventually draw all four Faeries. Set, match.

ROUND 3 - Fire & Lightning Burn (Win 2 - 1)

Game 1 - The guy was literally playing Fire & Lightning Deck right out of the box. Score! Anyway, game one I get burned to death.

Game 2 - Not sure how to sideboard. I bring in Thorns, Crusader, and one Faerie and send out the Innocent Bloods and something else. I draw enough early discard to stop him from burning me much, but he hammers me down below 10 with hasty red creatures and a figure of destiny. Then Crusader joins the party and eats his entire team. Pro-red just murders his entire board and blanks most of his deck long enough for me to get a creature advantage and finish him.

Game 3 - I send the thorns away and bring back the Bloods, realizing that he has lots of land but I need ways to kill early figures. I land an early Crusader after being burned down to 5, and eat a bolt to the face down to 2... but then I get Nighthawk going and he doesn't topdeck the critical final burn spell. Huzzah!

CONCLUSION

The only match I played against a "real deck" was Merfolk, and I lost. But, I've played them in the past, and won just as easily; it all comes down to whether you can pick their hand apart in the early game and keep their creature count under control. Once there are three merfolk lords in play, it's all over. Even the reanimator deck was slower than it should have been, since the player was using M10 duals. That wouldnt have mattered, though, as he had no answer to Faerie.

Note that Grafdigger's Cage would have LOST to reanimator. When I used Faeire, he initially tried to cast Spell Pierce. This was wrong on a number of levels, but the critical thing was that Faeire's discard ability cannot be countered as a spell. Cage can be. That's HUGE against stopping Reanimator from biding its time and then killing your permanent and going off with Force protection. I suppose it's worse against targeted discard, but I saw none of that.

Finally, I have been a HUGE fan of Phyrexian Crusader for awhile now, and it makes me very happy whenever my biases are confirmed. Here, I was probably dead in the water against Burn except that I had a big'ol pro-red wall to blank his creatures. Things would have been different if he was straight dumb burn instead of the sligh-variant in Fire and Ice, but remember that a TON of burn players are running creatures as well as spells anyway. (They're wrong if they do so!)

After reading your report, I ended up signing up just to ask you a few questions, as I find your list quite interesting. First, I freaking love the crusader, but I have no idea if I should put him in. I am actually hesitating between him and liliana or smother, which brings me to this question: did you ever feel like you were lacking some creature removal? I ask because I notice that you cut instant speed removal we usually find in there, and because the crusader can end up being pretty good with so many decks running white in the end.

Thanks

[RKPW]

I have been running this version for a while, and having playtested with most of viable options, this is what I feel most satisfied with.

It is slow and the slow clock has let opportunities to win slip at times. But it is fairly capable against a decent range of decks.

It geared towards control and Liliana of the Veil was the last addition which I am not 100% sure as it does things the deck already do well. Batterskull is card that don't really fit as it has to be hardcasted. But I feel the lifelink is useful and there are no better creatures there at that range.

//Lands
18 Swamp
2 Bojuka Bog
//Discards
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
//Removal
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Victim of Night
//Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Phyrexian Revoker
//Enchantments
3 Bitterblossom
//Artifacts
1 Batterskull
2 Umezawa's Jitte
//Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil

//Sideboard
4 Extirpate
4 Infest
3 Null Rod
4 Leyline of the Void

Any suggestions and comments welcome.

Not playing 4 Wastelands is so wrong. I like the idea of cutting persecutor, although in some matches it's just the straight nuts. Cut the batterskull, for a Sword of Light and Shadow, provides the lifelink-ish effect you're looking for, and protection. Four Hymns seems like to many, it's a bad topdeck lategame. especially if you're already running liliana.

[KobeBryan]

15 creatures
[4x] Abyssal Persecutor
[3x] Gatekeeper of Malakir
[4x] Dark Confidant
[4x] Vampire Nighthawk

16 spells
[4x] Duress
[3x] Innocent Blood
[3x] Cabal Therapy
[4x] Hymn to Tourach
[3x] go for the throat

6 enchantments
[2x] Umezawa's Jitte
[3x] Bitterblossom


21 lands
[17x] Swamp
[4x] Wasteland

i have 2 extra card slots. I don't know what to put in. I play lots of reanimator, maverick, and rug decks.

sideboard
3x dystopia
4x faerie macrebe
2x extirpate
3x thorn of amethyst

3 cards I don't know what to do with

[ThediscoPower]

15 creatures
[4x] Abyssal Persecutor
[3x] Gatekeeper of Malakir
[4x] Dark Confidant
[4x] Vampire Nighthawk

16 spells
[4x] Duress
[3x] Innocent Blood
[3x] Cabal Therapy
[4x] Hymn to Tourach
[2x] go for the throat

6 enchantments
[2x] Umezawa's Jitte
[3x] Bitterblossom
[1x] sword of light and shadow

21 lands
[17x] Swamp
[4x] Wasteland

i have 2 extra card slots. I don't know what to put in. I play lots of reanimator, maverick, and rug decks.

sideboard
3x dystopia
4x leyline of the void
2x thorn of amethyst
2x null rod

4 cards I don't know what to do with

For the 2 last spots, I think liliana of the veil can always be a good option in your case, as she is quite multipurpose, she can kill creatures, as much as she can screw over their hand. Also, if you get to play against combo (one of the worst matchups)and that you make it past turn 3-4, trying to combo with a liliana in play is a nightmare. Aside from that, maxing on cabal therapy in another option, and adding one more removal spell (go for the throat, innocent blood). I like the liliana option a bit better tho

As for the sideboard, you have many options. The best IMO is Extirpate, good against a wide range of decks, including Reanimator, Storm and dredge. From there, there is pitting needle, good against a multitude of stuff too. Pherixian Metamorph can also be a good idea if your playing against reanimator a lot. Finally, the other card I can think of is infest, good in agro matchups in general, and useful against affinity.

[KobeBryan]

For the 2 last spots, I think liliana of the veil can always be a good option in your case, as she is quite multipurpose, she can kill creatures, as much as she can screw over their hand. Also, if you get to play against combo (one of the worst matchups)and that you make it past turn 3-4, trying to combo with a liliana in play is a nightmare. Aside from that, maxing on cabal therapy in another option, and adding one more removal spell (go for the throat, innocent blood). I like the liliana option a bit better tho

As for the sideboard, you have many options. The best IMO is Extirpate, good against a wide range of decks, including Reanimator, Storm and dredge. From there, there is pitting needle, good against a multitude of stuff too. Pherixian Metamorph can also be a good idea if your playing against reanimator a lot. Finally, the other card I can think of is infest, good in agro matchups in general, and useful against affinity.

good idea...i changed it up a bit and added 2 lilianas.

so my sb now consists of
3x null rod
3x dystopia
3x deathmark
3x faerie macrebe
3x extirpate

[wert]

Not playing 4 Wastelands is so wrong. I like the idea of cutting persecutor, although in some matches it's just the straight nuts. Cut the batterskull, for a Sword of Light and Shadow, provides the lifelink-ish effect you're looking for, and protection. Four Hymns seems like to many, it's a bad topdeck lategame. especially if you're already running liliana.

Why so about the wasteland? There are many cards that needs BB to run so if wasteland is added, I need to run at least the same number of swamps, maybe 1 less.

I certainly like the Sword of light and shadow but the deck has low creature count and a body would be more useful imo.

All discards are poor topdecks, but you do want to have them in the opening too. I am still not very sure about Liliana of Veil, is she really useful in my deck?

[KobeBryan]

Why so about the wasteland? There are many cards that needs BB to run so if wasteland is added, I need to run at least the same number of swamps, maybe 1 less.

I certainly like the Sword of light and shadow but the deck has low creature count and a body would be more useful imo.

All discards are poor topdecks, but you do want to have them in the opening too. I am still not very sure about Liliana of Veil, is she really useful in my deck?

this deck has 15 creatures plus bitterblossom. That's plenty

[ThediscoPower]

Why so about the wasteland? There are many cards that needs BB to run so if wasteland is added, I need to run at least the same number of swamps, maybe 1 less.

I certainly like the Sword of light and shadow but the deck has low creature count and a body would be more useful imo.

All discards are poor topdecks, but you do want to have them in the opening too. I am still not very sure about Liliana of Veil, is she really useful in my deck?

Also, don't forget that the deck that actually are playing batterskull are doing so because they actually use stoneforge to cheat him in play for 2 mana, usually somewhere in the opponent's end step. You, on the other end, not only you can't tutor it, but you will have to hardcast it for a whole 5 mana, so, in other words, your actually investing a lot of resources on it, when the reason people play it is because they can get in play at instant speed by spending less than half the usual cost.

As for wasteland, it is usually good. It can cripple someone hard enough for you to actually be able to deal with whatever he will throw at you. Never forget that in the end, it will always cripple him more than it cripples you, mostly because in the end, you are playing cheap spells. Also, I would like to add that I do not like the bogs in this deck, mostly because I don't like the come into play tapped problem, and the fact that having one in your opening hand in a matchup where the graveyard isn't relevant is just bad. Add to this the fact that you are giving a nice target for the opponent's otherwise dead wastelands. However, that part is my opinion, so take it for what it is. I will also add that you can put 1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth to make the wasteland produce black mana if you're not comfortable with the colorless mana, however, remember that it's another target for the usually dead enemy wastelands.

As for liliana, it's more like she is a good filler for the last spots because she provides a way to disrupt hand and a way to kill creatures, whichever you need. I would not run her in a aggro heavy meta however, but as I said, she fills very well as a two of. Also, she screws over combo deck very well (on bad matchup for us), I can assure you that trying to storm with a liliana in play is hard (have already been at the receiving end of that)

[MaximumC]

After reading your report, I ended up signing up just to ask you a few questions, as I find your list quite interesting.
Thanks

Hey, welcome to The Source.



First, I freaking love the crusader, but I have no idea if I should put him in.

It really depends, as he's not so much a beater as a metagame card. He was great at the tourny I posted, but he was pretty useless in a second tourny I went to last weekend. There, I went 2-2, beating Natural Order and random scrub deck, and lost to Maverick and UR Tempo. Crusader didn't play much of a role in those matches because I never saw him, but his ability to dodge the UR deck's Snare and Bolt would have been important, plus the ability to chump and whittle down a KOTR. Of course, he doesn't do anything at all against Sword of Light and Shadow.



I am actually hesitating between him and liliana or smother, which brings me to this question: did you ever feel like you were lacking some creature removal? I ask because I notice that you cut instant speed removal we usually find in there, and because the crusader can end up being pretty good with so many decks running white in the end.


Only once in the last two tournies did I miss spot removal, against Maverick. Even there, I felt that my 4x Crusaders and 3x Dystopia should have been able to handle what the other player was tossing out there. I really wanted Deathmarks for that matchup, though.

Other than that, 4x Blood, 4x Gatekeeper and 2x Jitte have always been sufficient. If I'm getting overwhelmed on the board, I've already lost control and I doubt having a Go for the Throat would change things.

[wert]

this deck has 15 creatures plus bitterblossom. That's plenty
I am saying in reference to the list I made on post 1553 (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16885-Deck-The-Gate&p=625218&viewfull=1#post625218). In fact, I have 16 creatures. But out of them, only Nighthawk has any attacking intent. Dark Confidant and Revolver, you don't usually attack with, unless you need to suicide them. Gatekeeper is more of a bonus removal and with no evasion, 2/2, not "scary" at all. :P

Also, don't forget that the deck that actually are playing batterskull are doing so because they actually use stoneforge to cheat him in play for 2 mana, usually somewhere in the opponent's end step. You, on the other end, not only you can't tutor it, but you will have to hardcast it for a whole 5 mana, so, in other words, your actually investing a lot of resources on it, when the reason people play it is because they can get in play at instant speed by spending less than half the usual cost.

As for wasteland, it is usually good. It can cripple someone hard enough for you to actually be able to deal with whatever he will throw at you. Never forget that in the end, it will always cripple him more than it cripples you, mostly because in the end, you are playing cheap spells. Also, I would like to add that I do not like the bogs in this deck, mostly because I don't like the come into play tapped problem, and the fact that having one in your opening hand in a matchup where the graveyard isn't relevant is just bad. Add to this the fact that you are giving a nice target for the opponent's otherwise dead wastelands. However, that part is my opinion, so take it for what it is. I will also add that you can put 1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth to make the wasteland produce black mana if you're not comfortable with the colorless mana, however, remember that it's another target for the usually dead enemy wastelands.

As for liliana, it's more like she is a good filler for the last spots because she provides a way to disrupt hand and a way to kill creatures, whichever you need. I would not run her in a aggro heavy meta however, but as I said, she fills very well as a two of. Also, she screws over combo deck very well (on bad matchup for us), I can assure you that trying to storm with a liliana in play is hard (have already been at the receiving end of that)
I do realise the point with batterskull and the fact I am blind drawing with confidant. However, is there a better creature at 4-5cc mono black? Tombstalker is the best option but is a really no no because of the Dark Confidant's drawing. Another factor is with this deck, the game usually drags on(if we are doing ok), you would have the 5cc to hardcast it. Also, by then the only cards in your hand would be removal or the now not so useful discards, basically you have nothing to do with your mana. Not only it is hard to kill, it has lifelink and can be piggyback on to a faerie. I can't find any creatures that can match it.

Wasteland is a great card but in this case, it screws me over in B. The cards in my list plays mainly B, not colourless and to have wasteland in draw might not be a good thing at all. The effect of wasteland in terms of mana denial drop noticeably in midgame so wasteland's role is mainly to get rid of troublesome lands. There are few decks that don't make use of the graveyard at all these days (this, burn and combo) and against those which do, Bogs is a bitch. I do wish I can have some way to tutor them in mono black and it could suck if you have them in the first 7, but I think that risk is acceptable in the control-ish model of my deck.

Liliana isn't really that useful against combo, the earliest you can use her is 3rd turn. I have plenty of other discards that can be played earlier. I feel her main use to slow the opponent down and allow you time to draw into answers. However, she don't help on the front I am weak in, namely doing damage.

[KobeBryan]

What do you guys think of Sickening dreams as a board wipe?

We do tend to draw lots of cards. This also helps eliminate those useless topdecks we run into.

[ThediscoPower]

Hey, welcome to The Source.

It really depends, as he's not so much a beater as a metagame card. He was great at the tourny I posted, but he was pretty useless in a second tourny I went to last weekend. There, I went 2-2, beating Natural Order and random scrub deck, and lost to Maverick and UR Tempo. Crusader didn't play much of a role in those matches because I never saw him, but his ability to dodge the UR deck's Snare and Bolt would have been important, plus the ability to chump and whittle down a KOTR. Of course, he doesn't do anything at all against Sword of Light and Shadow.


Only once in the last two tournies did I miss spot removal, against Maverick. Even there, I felt that my 4x Crusaders and 3x Dystopia should have been able to handle what the other player was tossing out there. I really wanted Deathmarks for that matchup, though.

Other than that, 4x Blood, 4x Gatekeeper and 2x Jitte have always been sufficient. If I'm getting overwhelmed on the board, I've already lost control and I doubt having a Go for the Throat would change things.

Hey thanks a lot!!! I will definitely take that into consideration.


I do realise the point with batterskull and the fact I am blind drawing with confidant. However, is there a better creature at 4-5cc mono black? Tombstalker is the best option but is a really no no because of the Dark Confidant's drawing. Another factor is with this deck, the game usually drags on(if we are doing ok), you would have the 5cc to hardcast it. Also, by then the only cards in your hand would be removal or the now not so useful discards, basically you have nothing to do with your mana. Not only it is hard to kill, it has lifelink and can be piggyback on to a faerie. I can't find any creatures that can match it.

Wasteland is a great card but in this case, it screws me over in B. The cards in my list plays mainly B, not colourless and to have wasteland in draw might not be a good thing at all. The effect of wasteland in terms of mana denial drop noticeably in midgame so wasteland's role is mainly to get rid of troublesome lands. There are few decks that don't make use of the graveyard at all these days (this, burn and combo) and against those which do, Bogs is a bitch. I do wish I can have some way to tutor them in mono black and it could suck if you have them in the first 7, but I think that risk is acceptable in the control-ish model of my deck.

Liliana isn't really that useful against combo, the earliest you can use her is 3rd turn. I have plenty of other discards that can be played earlier. I feel her main use to slow the opponent down and allow you time to draw into answers. However, she don't help on the front I am weak in, namely doing damage.

Well, first, Bog, as I said, is a preference, more than anything. I've seen it in some lists that worked, and I've seen people hating it too, so yeah... From my side, I know I don't like it (I consider it plain bad in the gate, actually) for reasons stated before. You like that card you you bring very valid reasons too, so nothing wrong in that.

Second point is the batterskull debate. The reason I don't like batterskull is because 5 mana is too much for me. Of course, you don't run the wastelands, so you don't feel it as much as I do, but I consider using wasteland aggressively as a very important part of playing this deck, thus, my reluctance to play that card. Hell, batterskull is a good creature indeed, but it's no use if i'm never gonna put it in play before turn 7 because i'm busy disrupting him and dodging his counterspells, so to speak. (i might be wrong here, tho. But that's how I see it. That, and the fact that I don't want to leave mana open for him for the rest of the game in order to try to save him, if need be).

Now, for wasteland, your reasoning confuses me. I say that because when I take your list, then i take a ''normal'' list, your list isn't that much more hungry on the black mana side. Actually it's pretty much the same, as you are not running phyrexian obliterator, the real black mana hungry beast. so yeah...

Last, yes you are right about liliana in one way. She becomes useful if and only if you actually make it past the forth turn in the combo matchup. Also, i'm not saying she is required. What I say is that it's a good filler, some kind of a ''jack of all trades'', if you will, when you have those last spots. Well, not all trades, but the ones that can interest us anyways. I will also add that she goes through leyline of sanctity that we can't deal with, just to throw it out there Aside from that, the only reason you really are lacking damage dealing capacities is because you are running only one batterskull to kill, when the ''normal'' list runs the persecutor, or the obliterator,

[KobeBryan]

How do you guys board against UW blade control?

[ThediscoPower]

How do you guys board against UW blade control?

Usually, UW control has very few win conditions (jace, for instance, and batterskull, some blades), being the textbook control decks that they are. So board in the extirpates and make them fly away. I haven't played against one such deck yet, but that's how I would do it. Someone, feel free to correct me if case be.

EDIT: I forgot what to take out : i take out prolly 3 removal spells, seeing that they don't run many creatures anyways.

[lyracian]

What do you guys think of Sickening dreams as a board wipe? We do tend to draw lots of cards. This also helps eliminate those useless topdecks we run into.I really do not think you can aford to throw that many cards away to get this to work. When you are reanimating Jin-Gitaxias it can work but not here.

[IcedNeonFlames]

How do you guys board against UW blade control?
I run a 4th Bitterblossom in the sideboard.

I would board out the Persecutors, a Nighthawk and a Gatekeeper and board in my 4th Blossom, 3 Extirpates and 2 Phyrexian Metamorphs.

Having your turn 4 play get Jace bounced by the UW is a HUGE tempo loss, and frankly Abyssal Persecutor won't win you the game in that match-up.

Resolving Bitterblossom is your best bet against UW-Stoneblade.

[Michael Keller]

If I were to take The Gate to a tournament tomorrow, this is the list I would run:

The Gate

[4x] Vampire Nighthawk
[4x] Dark Confidant
[4x] Gatekeeper of Malakir
[3x] Faerie Macabre
[2x] Liliana of the Veil
[2x] Abyssal Persecutor

[4x] Innocent Blood
[3x] Inquisition of Kozilek
[3x] Cabal Therapy
[2x] Sensei's Divining Top

[4x] Bitterblossom
[3x] Umezawa's Jitte
[1x] Massacre

[11x] Swamp
[4x] Polluted Delta
[4x] Wasteland
[2x] Bloodstained Mire

//Sideboard
[4x] Planar Void
[4x] Null Rod
[3x] Hymn to Tourach
[3x] Massacre
[1x] Gaea's Blessing

I'm quite sure all of the cards provided are self-explanatory by the point. Some of them are criminally underrated right now, like Massacre - which is a complete blowout against Maverick. Also Planar Void - in my opinion - is just better than Leyline at this point. The fact something triggers when it hits the graveyard is rather moot if you drop it turn one, because nothing else will be staying there anyhow. It doesn't force you to mulligan aggressively and you can recast it if it's bounced. Also, run a set of Faerie Macabre. This will ensure you won't lose to Dredge or Reanimator game one and it picks up Jitte in the air. It's probably the best card in the entire deck at this point, and it completely nukes Snapcaster's effectiveness at no cost. Real good, kids.

You also shouldn't lose to Painter game two, as you'll have the Blessing at the ready (completely unexpected). Additionally, forcing Painter to bring in graveyard hate is really bad for them in game three when their deck is diluted with marginally effective grave-hate against a simple and aggressive weenie horde. Very effective, here.

Jitte and Nighthawk are for Burn, so there you go there.

Planeswalkers shouldn't be very relevant. You're running fliers to hit them in the air, so that should be decent enough. Null Rod is very solid against Affinity/MUD decks and a very good compliment against Storm. You have the Hymn there to shore that game up and already have a shot with discard main. No surprise there.

Top and fetches are really good and they'll help you find answers. Believe me, you'll want them more than you know. Setting up your draws and finding gas is incredibly important instead of leaning on the top of your deck for answers right now.

[KobeBryan]

If I were to take The Gate to a tournament tomorrow, this is the list I would run:

The Gate

[4x] Vampire Nighthawk
[4x] Dark Confidant
[4x] Gatekeeper of Malakir
[4x] Faerie Macabre
[2x] Liliana of the Veil
[2x] Abyssal Persecutor

[4x] Innocent Blood
[3x] Inquisition of Kozilek
[3x] Cabal Therapy
[2x] Sensei's Divining Top

[4x] Bitterblossom
[3x] Umezawa's Jitte
[1x] Massacre

[11x] Swamp
[4x] Polluted Delta
[4x] Wasteland
[2x] Bloodstained Mire

//Sideboard
[4x] Planar Void
[4x] Null Rod
[3x] Hymn to Tourach
[3x] Massacre
[1x] Gaea's Blessing

I'm quite sure all of the cards provided are self-explanatory by the point. Some of them are criminally underrated right now, like Massacre.

wow...inquisition over duress. weren't you the one that said duress is needed to take out the problematic enchantments and planeswalkers. Good luck hollywood. Fetchlands and sensie's...

[Michael Keller]

wow...inquisition over duress. weren't you the one that said duress is needed to take out the problematic enchantments and planeswalkers. Good luck hollywood. Fetchlands and sensie's...

Enchantments aren't really seeing a lot of play right now. Moat is really moot when you run fliers, so I'm not seeing any enchantments worth hitting that Inquisition can already hit (Solitary Confinement or Presence, for example). Planeswalkers can be attacked and should be the least of your worries.

Also, Massacre is so sexy against Lingering Souls. Sure, they can recast it, but you're forcing them to be mana-intensive while you're playing cards for free. A very good trade-off. Bitterblossom is also very good right now. Spell Snare is the least of your worries, and you should play around it accordingly. the card is insane with Jitte.

[KobeBryan]

Enchantments aren't really seeing a lot of play right now. Moat is really moot when you run fliers, so I'm not seeing any enchantments worth hitting that Inquisition can already hit (Solitary Confinement or Presence, for example). Planeswalkers can be attacked and should be the least of your worries.

Also, Massacre is so sexy against Lingering Souls. Sure, they can recast it, but you're forcing them to be mana-intensive while you're playing cards for free. A very god trade-off.

Hollywood knows best...he is the creator.

[Michael Keller]

Hollywood knows best...he is the creator.

I haven't played the deck in a while, but to be honest I would play something similar to the list I posted. I think Pox variants are decent right now, but the problem is that some of those decks don't have a high threat density and focus more on establishing tempo as opposed to churning out threats. Pox is dangerously close to being insane, but additionally insanely close to being nearly unplayable.

Most aggressive decks right now can focus on a single land (U/r, Burn, etc.) anyways, so it's not like that is going to matter anyhow. I think the strategy has its merits, however I think you have to build around it appropriately in order to make it worthwhile. A lot of people just slap together 1/3 lands, 1/3 dudes, 1/3 spells without thinking about the quality of the cards they're casting.

You need to think twice - maybe three times - before creating a deck like this. It has major disadvantages, but many advantages too.

[KobeBryan]

I haven't played the deck in a while, but to be honest I would play something similar to the list I posted. I think Pox variants are decent right now, but the problem is that some of those decks don't have a high threat density and focus more of establishing tempo as opposed to churning out threats. Pox is dangerously close to being insane, but additionally insanely close to being nearly unplayable.

Pox is dangerous, but the topdeck is worse than the gate.

One question, why not drop the gaeas and up the massacre count in the board.

[Michael Keller]

Pox is dangerous, but the topdeck is worse than the gate.

One question, why not drop the gaeas and up the massacre count in the board.

You're running one already main-deck, which is highly flexible as a sweeper. You run three in the board to supplement that. Painter is Legacy's best-kept secret, and it appears from time to time. Sometimes it's hard to just beat it cold, and there is no chance in hell they would be expecting that game two. It's not like Emrakul is going to do anything against Innocent Blood, which is far more feasible for you to cast than them having to SnT with Emrakul in hand. And Inquisition helps there, too.

Massacre is that good right now.

[KobeBryan]

You're running one already main-deck, which is highly flexible as a sweeper. You run three in the board to supplement that. Painter is Legacy's best-kept secret, and it appears from time to time. Sometimes it's hard to just beat it cold, and there is no chance in hell they would be expecting that game two. It's not like Emrakul is going to do anything against Innocent Blood, which is far more feasible for you to cast than them having to SnT with Emrakul in hand. And Inquisition helps there, too.

Massacre is that good right now.

oo ops didn't see u have 3 in ur board already.

if ur playing painter...i hope you don't draw into it!!!

[Michael Keller]

oo ops didn't see u have 3 in ur board already.

if ur playing painter...i hope you don't draw into it!!!

There's an awfully low chance of that happening.

[KobeBryan]

There's an awfully low chance of that happening.

man you're making me want to take the gate out for a spin this weekend.

But i'm not sure about the 4 maindeck faeries. i know they are 2/2 flyers at the very minimum. I still hate to hard cast it though.

[ThediscoPower]

I have a quick question. What do we do against leyline of sanctity? It seems that if a combo deck bust it out for free on turn 0, aren't we just death as we can't disrupt their hand?

[KobeBryan]

I have a quick question. What do we do against leyline of sanctity? It seems that if a combo deck bust it out for free on turn 0, aren't we just death as we can't disrupt their hand?

well the good thing is black decks are so pathetic right now in a tournament scene, no one will pack leyline of sanctitiy in the board.

[KobeBryan]

Hollywood:

I tried playtesting your build with the fetches and senseis.

It appears very unlikely that I ever use sensei's due to the lack of land. I think out of 10 games that i played, I thnk i used sensei's digging about only in 2 games.

The format is way too fast to be using sensei's ability. This deck has a very good matchup against canadian thresh/delver, but i've been losing games because the deck simply isn't fast enough.

[ThediscoPower]

well the good thing is black decks are so pathetic right now in a tournament scene, no one will pack leyline of sanctitiy in the board.

Yeah, But then I got scared watching this : round 4 gp Indy. It's hive mind vs deadguy ale, but you get the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuqItwjwN-8
(i did not see the rule prohibiting posting an external link, hopefully I am not doing anything illegal. ).

Game 2 is how we expect to beat that deck, but the game 3, man oh man was it painful to watch because of the leyline.

[LazyEyes]

The Gate should do fair well against Canadian Thresh match up wise. I did just that in the past, winning consistently. However in the past week, I found myself recently losing a lot to the same deck. Am I playing my deck wrong or something else?

Lands-21
17x Swamp
4x Wasteland

Creatures-15
4x Dark Confidant
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
3x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Vampire Nighthawk

Spells-24
3x Bitterblossom
3x Dismember
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Sinkhole
3x Thoughtseize
2x Umezawa’s Jitte
2x Victim of the Night

Side Board-15
3x Extirpate
3x Faerie Macabre
4x Null Rod
2x Perish
3x Vampire Hexmage


I know people generally do not favor Sinkhole b/c ppl consider them dead cards late game, but I like the fact that you get a "free turn" early game, especially if you do it turn 2.

[Gui]

I think your removal package takes too long to go online: Dismember is too costy, and the 2 lifes are important in this matchup. Victim of Night demands you to wait for :b::b: instead of going Wasteland route, and Sinkhole also demands this same :b::b:, so maybe you have a slight lack of synergy there, because most of your cards won't work well with wastelands (Sinkhole, Wasteland, Hymn to Tourach, Malakir, Obliterator, Victim).

Try using Smother of Go for the Throat instead of Victim, and you can try 1 or 2 of Darkblast or Disfigure (very good right now), or Innocent Blood or even Vendetta.

I also think Sinkhole is the least important card in your deck, but test it and see if you are getting wins due to it. Extra removal in the spot would help against a vast array of decks in the format at the moment.

[LazyEyes]

I run dismember b/c I like to have a turn one kill for goblin lackeys, the four life is worthwhile if they cannot get their engine started. I don't really experience mana problem with having BBcc as a opposed to 1Bcc, as so much everything I play gets countered or bolted. I suppose having Bcc removal spells would allow me to play multiple spells which would be harder to counter. Thanks, I'll play test it out!

[Michael Keller]

I run dismember b/c I like to have a turn one kill for goblin lackeys, the four life is worthwhile if they cannot get their engine started. I don't really experience mana problem with having BBcc as a opposed to 1Bcc, as so much everything I play gets countered or bolted. I suppose having Bcc removal spells would allow me to play multiple spells which would be harder to counter. Thanks, I'll play test it out!

Wouldn't Innocent Blood be more effective in that respect?

[LazyEyes]

Oh yeah...d'oh. I discounted it as a card only for Persecutor build rather than Obliterator. As I haven't seen any decks that placed than ran Obliterator run innocent blood, but I guess there isn't an additional penalty.

[beez]

I have an all vampire version of the deck that has done pretty well at a few small tournaments. It wins in true Gate style by attrition mostly between the discard, edicts and recurring Bloodghasts with a single topdeck hit on black with the Nocturnus and a couple of vamps on the board enough to deliver the knockout punch. It makes the recurring bloodghasts much more threatening, not to mention the usually weak gatekeeper when he is in the field. The assassins often get sided out when i know what i need to concentrate on defending against, but they can be effective at times and on turns where you have an extra mana or two puts them to use and can help you save edicts for a larger threat. If they still creature swamp with elves or something bring in damnation and ride the Bloodghasts. It's no world beater but it has been pretty good to me. Stoneblade gets real frustrated when they can't keep a creature out.

Lands:
15 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs (for a tiny bit of deck thinning and also to help Nocturnus topdeck black)

Creatures:
4x Vampire Nocturnus
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Bloodghast
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Guul Draaz Assassin (Should probably get and run Bob instead even though he doesn't get vamp bonus)

Spells:
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Thoughseize (can run this without bitterblossom)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Chainer's Edict (recur later and being blk control this deck doesn't win very quick)
4X Geth's Verdict (as instant rather than sorcery can be key sometimes)
2x Cruel edict (let's kill a couple more)
1x Extirpate (can remove the odd pesky threat and is extra here because sideboard is only 15 cards but I want option of 4 of these)

Sideboard:
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Damnation
4x Inquisition of Kozeliek
3x Extirpate

[KobeBryan]

I have an all vampire version of the deck that has done pretty well at a few small tournaments. It wins in true Gate style by attrition mostly between the discard, edicts and recurring Bloodghasts with a single topdeck hit on black with the Nocturnus and a couple of vamps on the board enough to deliver the knockout punch. It makes the recurring bloodghasts much more threatening, not to mention the usually weak gatekeeper when he is in the field. The assassins often get sided out when i know what i need to concentrate on defending against, but they can be effective at times and on turns where you have an extra mana or two puts them to use and can help you save edicts for a larger threat. If they still creature swamp with elves or something bring in damnation and ride the Bloodghasts. It's no world beater but it has been pretty good to me. Stoneblade gets real frustrated when they can't keep a creature out.

Lands:
15 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs (for a tiny bit of deck thinning and also to help Nocturnus topdeck black)

Creatures:
4x Vampire Nocturnus
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Bloodghast
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Guul Draaz Assassin (Should probably get and run Bob instead even though he doesn't get vamp bonus)

Spells:
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Thoughseize (can run this without bitterblossom)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Chainer's Edict (recur later and being blk control this deck doesn't win very quick)
4X Geth's Verdict (as instant rather than sorcery can be key sometimes)
2x Cruel edict (let's kill a couple more)
1x Extirpate (can remove the odd pesky threat and is extra here because sideboard is only 15 cards but I want option of 4 of these)

Sideboard:
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Damnation
4x Inquisition of Kozeliek
3x Extirpate

This is not the gate man. This is a vampire deck...

The gate is all about bitterblossom and umezawa's jitte. Without 6 of those cards, its not really the gate.

[beez]

Yeah 2x Jitte would be much better than the 2X cruel edict for sure. Not having bitterblossom is tough I admit and is the engine in most builds, and if that is an absolute requirement I suppose you are right. The Bloodghasts work as a lesser bitterblossom with the advantage of being 5/2 fliers at times but it is true it is not the same thing. The deck works with the traditional Gate strategy, so maybe it is better called a Gate-influenced vampire deck if you wish.

[Michael Keller]

Hollywood:

I tried playtesting your build with the fetches and senseis.

It appears very unlikely that I ever use sensei's due to the lack of land. I think out of 10 games that i played, I thnk i used sensei's digging about only in 2 games.

The format is way too fast to be using sensei's ability. This deck has a very good matchup against canadian thresh/delver, but i've been losing games because the deck simply isn't fast enough.

I think you're overgeneralizing here. The deck has enough threats and removal where speed isn't going to be relevant from an opponent's perspective. Top lets you organize and set your draws up in a pinch. Its utility is incredible and there really isn't much more to be said about it.

You aren't getting color-screwed like some decks running multiple colors in search of land. This deck finds removal and threats with Top, and saves you life with Bob on the table.

[MaximumC]

This is not the gate man. This is a vampire deck...

The gate is all about bitterblossom and umezawa's jitte. Without 6 of those cards, its not really the gate.

I was gonna post the same comment, but then I reconsidered. The Gate is not really defined by particular cards as much as it is by a slow, grindy black aggro-control game that relies on cards that each generate incremental advantage. Thus, Gate lists typically run alot of 2-for-1 cards, like Hymn, Gatekeeper, Bob, Bitterblossom, etc, and then one big undercosted finisher. From that perspective, this Vampire list is pretty close to what The Gate is after.

That said, I think it's sub-optimal for a few reasons:

1) Bloodghast - Like I said earlier, this is a recurring dude, so the possibility of incremental advantage is certainly there. The problem is that he's just a 2 power dork that can't block. Many opponents can just totally ignore him. I feel like you need a build that really leverages sacrifice effects, moreso than just Cabal Therapy, to make him a contender.

2) Vampire Noctorunus - This guy is filling the same role as Abyssal Persecutor or Phyrexian Obliterator. He's the big dumb finisher. Unlike those cards, though, Noctornus is not a beast himself. He requires that you've stuck other creatures and that you have a black card on top. I feel like this is way to conditional as a finisher. I'd rather have a 6/6 flying beast for 2BB over him.

3) Guul Draz Assassin - I agree that this slot should be Bob, but the Assassin certainly is in the spirit of The Gate. He's potentially a recurring source of creature removal. Problem is, he's really expensive to get going. Too expensive to be worth the trouble.

4) Chainer's Edict / Geth's Verdict / Cruel Edict - Geth has some things going for it, but Chainer's Edict is bad. You will not often get to flash this back, especially once you have Bob fueling your draw. Cruel Edict is plain stinky - why on earth not play the strictly-better Diabolic Edict? Better yet, use spot removal to supplement your multiple sacrifice effects. Also, try Innocent Blood. Particularly where you're using Bloodghast, I think you'll find I.Blood is just flat out busted.

[LazyEyes]

I see people running Massacre, as it can be played for free against white. However, correct me if I'm wrong isn't it a worse option to Infest? Say...against G/W Maverick, an opponent can sideboard Gaddock Teeg and GSZ him. Would it not be better to run Infest for a consistent 1BB?

[Standard]

Hey Guys,

Im new to both the forums and Legacy. Im also really interested in this Deck and Ive been playing it for some weeks now. Ill post my list during the next days.

What do you think about Tragic Slip (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tragic%20Slip) as a Removal for B. My list contains 3 Victim of Night atm and I really think a cc1 removal would fit nicely into the curve. Deathmark is just such a meta choice and Disfigure stops being useful when it comes to bigger creatures.

Tragic Slip can handle a lot of x/1 creatures like Bob, Hierarch or Lackey in the first turns and in mid- or lategame it could work nicely with chumpblocking faeries or with Therapy or even Innocent Blood / Gatekeeper.

[Standard]

Alright, here is my recent list:

//Lands
20 Swamp

//Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Faerie Macabre

//Spells
3 Disfigure
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Innocent Blood
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Bitterblossom
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

//Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
3 Dystopia
3 Deathmark
1 Hymn to Tourach

I must say again that I'm completely new to the format. I don't play Wastelands because I don't own them, but I'm probably gonna get 4 in the near future. Another important point is that I really want to play a 3rd Faerie Macabre MD, but I just don't know what to cut for it.

And again, I would like to try Tragic Slip over Dismember here to see how it works.

[MaximumC]

Alright, here is my recent list:

//Lands
20 Swamp

//Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Faerie Macabre

//Spells
3 Disfigure
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Innocent Blood
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Bitterblossom
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

//Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
3 Dystopia
3 Deathmark
1 Hymn to Tourach

I must say again that I'm completely new to the format. I don't play Wastelands because I don't own them, but I'm probably gonna get 4 in the near future. Another important point is that I really want to play a 3rd Faerie Macabre MD, but I just don't know what to cut for it.

And again, I would like to try Tragic Slip over Dismember here to see how it works.

I don't have much to complain about in your list, given that it's pretty close to the standard Gate build. But, here's a few thoughts:

As long as you're not running Wasteland, have you tried running Phyrexian Obliterator instead of Percy? You can generate the mana and Obliterator can be situationally better than Percy. Maverick deals with both of them very easily (maze, swords, sols), but Obliterator stops a massive KotR cold while Percy does not.

Disfigure doesn't seem good. Since Goblins is on the decline and Gx decks are on the rise, I think it's time for 4x main deck Deathmarks to return.

Engineered Plague... I have never been happy with this card and run it only as a hedge against combo elves and the random goblin. It's too expensive to use against decks where it only functions as limited removal, and doesn't hose the Decks to Beat right now.

[Michael Keller]

Actually, Engineered Plague on Humans is not as bad as one might think. It stops Delver of Secrets, Noble Hierarch, Mother of Runes, Thalia, Grim Lavamancer, etc.

It's actually unknowingly really good at the moment. People are running Dread of Night because of its cheap application to a specific color, but this hits all types.

[MaximumC]

Actually, Engineered Plague on Humans is not as bad as one might think. It stops Delver of Secrets, Noble Hierarch, Mother of Runes, Thalia, Grim Lavamancer, etc.

It's actually unknowingly really good at the moment. People are running Dread of Night because of its cheap application to a specific color, but this hits all types.

...and shuts down your own draw engine.

[Michael Keller]

...and shuts down your own draw engine.

Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking? I suppose trading four of your creatures for up to sixteen of theirs isn't a fair deal.

That's your draw engine right there - it's called virtual card advantage. Dark Confidant is only in the deck to supplement an already overwhelming threat density, not to mention Liliana cleaning up the rest of the mess.

[KobeBryan]

Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking?

I suppose trading four of your creatures for up to sixteen of theirs isn't a fair deal. That's your draw engine right there - it's called virtual card advantage.

ORRRR

side out 4 dark confidants and side in 4 EP. Then you won't kill your 4 creatures.

[Michael Keller]

ORRRR

side out 4 dark confidants and side in 4 EP. Then you won't kill your 4 creatures.

That's fine too. Or you could keep them in and board out the Macabre, which is what I would do because I wouldn't run four Plague to begin with.

[MaximumC]

Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking? I suppose trading four of your creatures for up to sixteen of theirs isn't a fair deal.

That's your draw engine right there - it's called virtual card advantage. Dark Confidant is only in the deck to supplement an already overwhelming threat density, not to mention Liliana cleaning up the rest of the mess.

There's no need to be snippy.

It isn't like one deck to beat is running Delver of Secrets, Noble Hierarch, Mother of Runes, Thalia, and Grim Lavamancer, all in the same deck. Blue aggro and tempo decks might pack Delver as the lone human. (Snappy hardly counts because he can still do his thing even if he dies right away). Ditto lavamancer in a sligh or burn type deck. If you're giving up Bob (arguably your best creature) just to stop 4 to 6 cards in the enemy's deck, that seems like a bad trade. Especially when some of your creatures just outclass them.

The one deck that does get hit fairly hard by Plague on humans is Maverick. There, yes, you kill Hierarch, Mother, Thalia, and weaken KotR. This is not bad at all, maybe worth not having Bob online. At a minimum, it keeps alot of really problematic creatures off the board. It doesn't stop a flying green 1/1 equipped with SoLS, which I always found to be one of Maverick's best plays against us. I would almost rather be packing 4x Deathmark for this matchup. If you're already doing that, and given how big a chunk of the metagame it is, Plague might make some sense.

[Standard]

Could you please give me some advice on what to cut for the 3rd Faerie? My first thought was Jitte, but I do not think I'd end up drawing it regularly when there are only 2 in the Deck...

[lyracian]

Could you please give me some advice on what to cut for the 3rd Faerie? My first thought was Jitte, but I do not think I'd end up drawing it regularly when there are only 2 in the Deck...You could drop one of your Percy's into the sideboard or a Therapy.

[MaximumC]

You could drop one of your Percy's into the sideboard or a Therapy.

I can't see not running 4 faeries, honestly, since it is so critical against graveyard-based decks. I usually side out Hymn to Torach in favor of faeries against them, since you really don't want to be giving them a free discard outlet anyway. Note that you want to keep in your targeted discard, because hitting the reanimator spells is very important.

[Michael Keller]

There's no need to be snippy.

I took the remark that was made at me as kind of snide too, so I apologize if that came off that way but it wasn't meant to sound that way.


It isn't like one deck to beat is running Delver of Secrets, Noble Hierarch, Mother of Runes, Thalia, and Grim Lavamancer, all in the same deck. Blue aggro and tempo decks might pack Delver as the lone human. (Snappy hardly counts because he can still do his thing even if he dies right away). Ditto lavamancer in a sligh or burn type deck. If you're giving up Bob (arguably your best creature) just to stop 4 to 6 cards in the enemy's deck, that seems like a bad trade. Especially when some of your creatures just outclass them.

The creatures might outclass them, but your draws won't. You're dependent more so on the top of your deck than any Tempo variant running Ponders and Brainstorms, which is why I was advocating using Top so that in the event you need to stick a Plague and Bob's are useless, you still have Top with fetches to manipulate your draws.

Dark Confidant is good enough to run even in the event you decide to run E. Plague because of how important it can be in netting you some cards. Engineered Plague's application also gives you card advantage by pinning their threats down and keeping them off the board. If you have one or the other sticking on the table, then you're going to be just fine.


The one deck that does get hit fairly hard by Plague on humans is Maverick. There, yes, you kill Hierarch, Mother, Thalia, and weaken KotR. This is not bad at all, maybe worth not having Bob online. At a minimum, it keeps alot of really problematic creatures off the board. It doesn't stop a flying green 1/1 equipped with SoLS, which I always found to be one of Maverick's best plays against us. I would almost rather be packing 4x Deathmark for this matchup. If you're already doing that, and given how big a chunk of the metagame it is, Plague might make some sense.

Deathmark is always a solid choice. However, it becomes rather weak when Mother of Runes sticks. This is why running Plague is better, because it minimizes their board presence and allows you to open the door to removing their individual threats like Knight rather easily.

[Standard]

Thank you guys for the Answers. I actually run 2 Faeries MD and 2 SB. But I want to place a 3rd one MD to get 2 more Slots in the SB. I just cannot decide what to cut for it. Cutting the third Percy seems like randomizing drawing him too much, and cutting out the 3rd Therapy... well, it basically means -1 Sac Outlet for Percy AND -1 Discard which I am not sure about.

My thoughts were basically Gatekeeper or Jitte, but I'm also not sure about that. It's just a hard choice. I do really like having Faeries MD, but 2 seems a bit random to me.

Oh, and could someone please state an opinion about Tragic Slip which I mentioned before?

[KobeBryan]

Would this new Demonlord of Ashmouth be better than persecutor now?

same mana cost, but no trample ability. Not that trample is that useful since persy has evasion.

[ThediscoPower]

Would this new Demonlord of Ashmouth be better than persecutor now?

same mana cost, but no trample ability. Not that trample is that useful since persy has evasion.

nah, i don't think so when there is a chance to not be able to play this guy at all, and when undying,if a cool ability , still doesn't trump swords to plowshares. I'll keep my persecutors.

[xdavisx]

so if anyone was watching scglive yesterday. that was totally me that lost under the camera yesterday. misplay my life away :cool:

i'll post a report later when i get off work

[Infectious]

so if anyone was watching scglive yesterday. that was totally me that lost under the camera yesterday. misplay my life away :cool:

i'll post a report later when i get off work

Awesome to see The Gate represented. Your opponent was also playing just as sloppy ;) Hilarious to hear the commentators struggle to figure out what you were up to. "Black agro.. one sec while I google this".

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/314341339
Skip to 5h:30m in.

Looking forward to the report!

[ThediscoPower]

so if anyone was watching scglive yesterday. that was totally me that lost under the camera yesterday. misplay my life away :cool:

i'll post a report later when i get off work


Well, I don't think game one was so bad (maybe in the end, I guess, attack with both nighthawks to gain life keep the persecutor back? then again, i'm saying that after the game has been played, so that opinion isn't worth much lol) , it's only the game 2, so don't be so hard on yourself, you did well. Still, I am very interested in the tournament report!!

[lyracian]

Would this new Demonlord of Ashmouth be better than persecutor now? same mana cost, but no trample ability. Not that trample is that useful since persy has evasion.With the occasional BoP or flashing Sylvan Ranger I quite like the Trample for getting damage through. Also I think it is better to have the problem of killing your own dude rather than not having the sacrificial offering so you can not play your big guy.


so if anyone was watching scglive yesterday. that was totally me that lost under the camera yesterday. misplay my life away :cool:
i'll post a report later when i get off workWell you took the deck to a big event and hopefully had some fun. Well done on that.

[xdavisx]

To start things, I've always been a fan of this deck and have lurked this thread many, many times. Even though I have many other deck options, I've always had a soft spot for The Gate. This was my first real "buy in" deck for legacy. (i.e. dark confidant, wasteland, jitte, thoughtsieze). I chose the deck this week for its obvious reasons of simply manhandling other creature based decks and still have some game against the unfair decks. PLUS I do love casting me some fatty flyers.
After this past Sunday, I have a new found respect for getting a full nights rest before grinding away an 8+ round tourney.

I got off work on Saturday night around 1130 PM and saw that I had Sunday off. So I said, "Fuck it", I'll make the 4 hour drive the next morning so I can cast some nighthawks and make people wonder what the hell I was doing. I went home, got my shit together and finally laid down for a sweet 3ish hour nap. I got up around 5am and after some durdling I finally hit the road to Des Moines. Illinois and Iowa are not fun states to drive through for those that haven't made the drive before. The only highlight being The World's Largest Truck Stop of I80 about 80miles in. I get to the venue around 9am and after managing to get lost from the parking garage to the convention room, this is what I register.

4 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtsieze
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Bitterblossom
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Umezawa's jitte
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Dark Confidant
1 Massacre
4 Wasteland
17 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog

sideboard
3 Massacre
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Graf Digger's Cage
1 Darkblast
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Perish
1 Duress
1 Hymn to Tourach

Running on little sleep and food i start trudging along the rounds. Bear with me now, I'll do my best to try remember each round.

round 1Esper Blade/Spirits

Game 1-Not a whole lot here he managers to drop a batterskull and later equips it with a jitte and does me in.
Game 2- I rip his had apart, I kill his dudes and get there with abyssal persecutor and night hawk.
Game 3-It was a grindy, swingy match. near the end of the game he taps to disenchant a revoker naming jace, then he taps his remaining mana slams, a stone forge and immediately searches. midsearch I notice he didn't have a 2nd white source. Judge was called, a warning was issued to him. i resolve a nighthawk and equip and start going to town. Time is called and the game is drawn with him at 2 life. No concession :(
0-0-1

round 2 elf combo
Game 1- He mulls to 4 and kill him pretty easily with a Bob and jitte.
Game 2 - I rip his hand apart and kill his early dudes then soon we're both in top deck mode. I draw dead he draws little 1/1's and beats me to death with them.
Game 3- I cast inquisition seeing wire wood symbiote x2, glimpse of nature x2, nettle sential, forrest, 1 arch druid. I choose nettle sential. He cast wirewood and passes, I cast innocent blood, and cast cabal therapy naming glimpse. he cast his 2nd wirewood and plays a land back to me. I cast inquisition taking his archdruid and cast another innocent blood. he draws dead i drop a jitte and it's game over.
1-0-1

round 3 u/w stone blade
Game 1- I think I nuked his land with wasteland He doesn't do anything turn two but play a land and I cast hymn getting both his lands. He draws his lands too late, and by then nighthawk and persecutor get it done.
game-2- Standard u/w match he resolves a jace and i lose sometime after. He brought in all the removal, path to exiles and wrath of gods.
game 3- Swingy match, I manage to get Liana to like 7 or 8 counters. I have a persecutor that has him dead. He's at negative whatever life. But he has 2 mishra's factories and a stoneforge equipped with a sword of feast and famine and gets lilana down to 3 counters. I edict myself the next turn and win.
2-0-1

round 4 maverick (feature match) see the link infectious posted (thanks dude!)
game 1- Just to explain the attack near the end of the game. he had lethal on board and i had to attack with the nighthawks to be able to stay alive the next turn, plus he had an active mom on boat messing up the blocks. i played bob so he could chump block the thalia if need be. he got in there with knight and I die to a bob flip.
game 2- OH boy, here we go. yea I knew I shoulda flashbacked cabal sacking my nighthawk to get his elspeth. For some reason my dehydrated, tired self thought I could just aggro out the elspeth. it was going ok until he dropped maze of ith. and later I forgot I had dark blast in the yard. oops.
I brought in graf diggers cage here, just to try it out against green sun zenith.
2-1-1

round 5 maverick
game 1- He leads with wasteland, I lead with my wasteland nuking his. He drops karakas and I nuke that the following turn. He misses a land drop I make mine. he eventually drops a land and cast a noble heirarch. I cast a gatekeeper and waste his land, he scoops.
game 2- I rip apart his hand and and kill his early stuff. He cast a knight, and drops a 2nd one via green sun zenith. I rip a perish off the top like a boss, and he scoops it up with no cards in hand.
3-1-1

round 6 esper blade/spirits
game 1- Not much of match, he counters my stuff and he cast some lingering souls and a vendillion clique gets there with a sword of fire and ice.
game 2- this is where some drama happens. We trade spells for awhile and later I cast a cabal therapy seeing his hand jace, force of will. He doesn't have a 2nd blue source and top decks a brainstorm. He plays it like a ponder, buts three back and begins to shuffles his deck. "Woah woah woah dude, you don't shuffle with brainstorm". Judge was called they ruled it a warning since he didn't draw an extra card yet. so pretty much he got a free shuffle and top decked his blue source and resolves a jace. game over.
3-2-1

round 7 esper blade/spirits
game 1- We both mull to 6 and I'm on the play. I keep 4 lands, thought seize and gatekeeper. I cast thought seize netting his stoneforge and the rest were lands. He top decks his own thought seize and gets my gatekeeper. No joke, we play off the top for at least 5 or 6 turns and we both were ripping lands. i eventually won off the back of a persecutor.
game 2- Just take all the other esper games I played and mash them all together and thats what this game was. except he was at -20something life. I eventually draw a sac outlet for the persecutor .
4-2-1

round 8 need to win to top 32. tezz affinity
game 1- He poops his hand out and gets a turn 3 tezz and ultimates it and I die the following turn.
game 2- I tears his hand apart apart and and get there with bob wielding jitte and revoker naming tezz.
game 3- I mull to 6 on the play. I cast inquisition seeing double mox opal, lands, thought cast other stuff and tezz. yep, turn 3 or 4 ultimate tezz kills me.
4-3-1

Faerie macabre and bojuka bog were all stars all day, and those were just against the stoneblade decks.

All in all I had a fun time and was happy with the deck. Like all players my play coulda been tighter. I easily could have won some more games with tighter play. It was hard to say how good massacre is against esper because I never drew it. I found the u/x blade decks a little difficult, it might have been me drawing bad, misplaying but it seems if those decks can land an equipment The Gate has some trouble dealing with it. I know splashing a color isn't really in The Gate's style but krosan grip seems pretty good against a lot of problematic artifacts. Thoughts?
I know now to appreciate being hydrated, well rested and having some granola bars handy.

bonus story.
I played The Gate last fall in Nashville to a better standing. Around round 5 I played Alex Bertoncini piloting reanimator.

game 1- Turn 1 he leads with polluted delta. I cast inquisition he responds with cracking his fetch and casting entomb ditching iona into his yard and dazing me. He replays his land and passes. I cast another inquisition seeing double reanimate or exhume (can't recall) and a ponder and lands. He was like "good luck, I can't lose with this hand" I pick the ponder, then follow it up with cabal therapy naming exhume. He goes on life tilt. he draws dead, I drop a liliana and spin her up ditching persecutor. He cast exhume we both get our dudes back and I just edict him and win soon after.
game 2- leyline of the void does him in.


Thanks for reading

[Michael Keller]

Nice work.

Glad to see folks still piloting this deck, and even nicer to see some coverage.

[ESG]

Bonus story is classic.

Xdavisx, aside from ruining the Stoneblade player when you caught his lands, how did Hymn to Tourach perform on the day? Would more 1cc removal have been better?

Color splashing would open you up to Wasteland and Stifle, so you just have to weigh the chances of that. Seems bad in a meta full of RUG Delver, but if the room is a bunch of UWx equipment decks, then you might gain a lot from splashing.

[xdavisx]

Bonus story is classic.

Xdavisx, aside from ruining the Stoneblade player when you caught his lands, how did Hymn to Tourach perform on the day? Would more 1cc removal have been better?

Color splashing would open you up to Wasteland and Stifle, so you just have to weigh the chances of that. Seems bad in a meta full of RUG Delver, but if the room is a bunch of UWx equipment decks, then you might gain a lot from splashing.

Like always, Hymn was sweet when it was dropped early and terrible late game but themz the breaks, it was pretty house against the elves and maverick matches. By 1cc removal do you mean targeted discard or creature removal? I think 3 Thoughtsieze and 1 Inquisition of Kozilek would be good. Everytime I casted inquisition I just wanted it to be a thoughtsieze.

[KobeBryan]

Do you guys feel that these black decks without hymn is too slow for this format now?

I mean with that devil guy, and temporal, black loses lots and lots of tempo.

[MoxBropal]

I know splashing a color isn't really in The Gate's style but krosan grip seems pretty good against a lot of problematic artifacts. Thoughts?


I run a similar list with a green splash for Krosan Grips and Chokes in the board. The Grips are great against Batterskull and Aether Vial especially.

How did you like running the Faerie Macabres in the main?

[xdavisx]

I run a similar list with a green splash for Krosan Grips and Chokes in the board. The Grips are great against Batterskull and Aether Vial especially.

How did you like running the Faerie Macabres in the main?

ooooo Choke sounds spicy, that would of been nice against all the blue decks I was stuck playing against. Faerie Macabres were great throughout the day. Luckly I didn't go against dredge or reanimator, but the card was good for me all day. I exiled many lingering souls and snapcaster mage targets and I think it deserves it's slot in the main board.

[LazyEyes]

If you're going to splash green I recommend you investigate Eva-Green. Otherwise Mono Black still has the option of Null Rods completely shuts down Equipments and most Artifacts, and possibly Ratchet Bomb (bit slow for my tastes).

[berksowl]

Speaking of Null Rods, I've been reading this thread and I've been meaning to ask: As a sideboard option, under what circumstances would one board a Null Rod into The Gate, and how/when would they cast it?

I ask because it shuts down the Jittes that this deck. So the Null Rods are just cast when we're losing the Artifact Equipment battle? Boarded in against Stoneblade decks? Would one board out some Jittes then?

Lastly: I see Manriki-Gusari gets mentioned in this thread, with what I think is a similar purpose, but more targeted removal of Artifact Equipments. What do people think of Gate to Phyrexia as a sideboard option in this deck, to cover any Artifact threat, equipment or not?

[LazyEyes]

Speaking of Null Rods, I've been reading this thread and I've been meaning to ask: As a sideboard option, under what circumstances would one board a Null Rod into The Gate, and how/when would they cast it?

I ask because it shuts down the Jittes that this deck. So the Null Rods are just cast when we're losing the Artifact Equipment battle? Boarded in against Stoneblade decks? Would one board out some Jittes then?

Lastly: I see Manriki-Gusari gets mentioned in this thread, with what I think is a similar purpose, but more targeted removal of Artifact Equipments. What do people think of Gate to Phyrexia as a sideboard option in this deck, to cover any Artifact threat, equipment or not?
Depends on the deck your playing. Jitte is not a necessary win condition, but I do find myself boarding it out sometimes depending on the deck. If you are facing ANT there isn't really a need to use them, but against tribal/vial I keep them.

Well I do not think the Gate runs enough creatures to make Gate to Phyrexia worthwhile, except when bitterblossom is in play. Besides the archetype I can think of that runs non-activated artifacts worth worrying about is STAX/Prison decks but they tend not to see competitive play.

[abetman]

Null Rods are good against combo and affinity. It depends on your match up if you'd want to take out Jitte's for Rods.

Null Rod kills all combo artifact mana + wasteland = buys you enough time to kill em if not instant gg.

Manriki Gusari feels a bit random if you're just going to run it as a 1 of, since you wouldn't be able to tutor it.

[MoxBropal]

I was wondering if you guys could give me some sideboarding tips for certain matchups. I run a pretty standard Gate build and am unsure on what to board out in certain matchups. For instance, what should come out against:
U/W Stoneblade
Vial Goblins
Burn
Tendrils
Dredge
Aggro Loam

Any tips would be much appreciated.

[abetman]

It depends on what you're running on your board.

I wouldn't really know what specific cards to board in and out since you didn't give out your list. However, if I was the one playing against those decks you mentioned I'll be taking out:

Tendrils:
- take out some removal, since they don't have creatures anyway.
+ I'll either put in combo hate (null rods,chalice of the void) with graveyard hate (macabre,extirpate). Sometimes I side in engineered plague for EtW goblins.

Dredge:
- minus discard, I run thoughtseize, so I automatically remove those. I keep cabal therapies or hymns in, we still need to hit their discard outlets or recurring lands (breakthrough,careful study,undiscovered paradise)
+ graveyard hate (extirpate,surgical extraction,macabre,relic of prog ... You get my point)

In general, I board in extirpate and/or pithing needles. Taking out key spells and disabling equipments or fetchlands.

Main point is take out things that were not really useful on game 1 and replace it with something relevant to your opponents game plan.

[berksowl]

Here's the version of this deck I've put together:

Creatures
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Dark Confidant
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk

Planeswalkers
2 Liliana of the Veil

Spells
4 Bitterblossom
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Dark Ritual
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Land
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Polluted Delta
11 Swamp
2 Wasteland

SB
2 Duress
2 Dystopia
2 Engineered Plague
2 Massacre
2 Null Rod
2 Pithing Needle
2 Soul Spike
1 Tormod's Crypt


I've had just a little bit of time to playtest this deck. I beat up on a Sliver deck, and on some Burn decks. And I went 1-1 against a Sneak and Show deck, which was a pretty scary experience especially during the first game which he won on Turn 3.

So against Sneak and Show, I played IoK on Turn 1 and saw his Sneak Attack, but I couldn't take it, or get a Cabal Therapy to take it. He had played two Lotus Petals and played Sneak Attack during Turn 3, at which point I knew I was done for. I had a Gatekeeper in hand when he played Sneak Attack, but Turn 4 he played two Progenitus, so game over.

Against a creature/combo deck like this, I guess Duress should be boarded in to get Sneak Attack and/or Show and Tell, as should Pithing Needles (to target Sneak Attack). Would anyone board in a Null Rod to hopefully take out the Lotus Pedals, and slow down their combo, even given that Null Rod seems like it hurts The Gate a lot too?

[Bignasty197]

Progenitus is legendary. Your opponent shouldn't have been able to put both into play.

[berksowl]

Progenitus is legendary. Your opponent shouldn't have been able to put both into play.

Ah, you're right. :eyebrow:

He did, and I was too stunned to object.

[berksowl]

I played The Gate again last night at a local tournament of about 25 people.

First round I played against Enchantress. I won the first game before he could get going, by dropping Dark Ritual, Liliana of the Veil on Turn 1. The next two games I was done in by his combos, and by Solitary Confinement and Elephant Grass.

The other remarkable match-up was against a Reanimator deck, where I was totally hosed in two games by Iona, Shield of Emeria.

Against Enchantress, I was obviously lacking enchantment removal. What would people bring in their sideboard to a local meta where they expected to see at least one or two Enchantress decks? I was thinking Contamination, which I know has been discussed quite a bit in this thread. Or maybe Infernal Darkness, which was suggested to me by one of the more experienced players at the tournament.

And then maybe something like Nevinyrral's Disk to wipe the board clean if I get devastated by cards like Solitary Confinement, Elephant Grass, or Iona.

Anyway, it was a rough night. (But it's okay, because I'm learning.)

[ThediscoPower]

I played The Gate again last night at a local tournament of about 25 people.

First round I played against Enchantress. I won the first game before he could get going, by dropping Dark Ritual, Liliana of the Veil on Turn 1. The next two games I was done in by his combos, and by Solitary Confinement and Elephant Grass.

The other remarkable match-up was against a Reanimator deck, where I was totally hosed in two games by Iona, Shield of Emeria.

Against Enchantress, I was obviously lacking enchantment removal. What would people bring in their sideboard to a local meta where they expected to see at least one or two Enchantress decks? I was thinking Contamination, which I know has been discussed quite a bit in this thread. Or maybe Infernal Darkness, which was suggested to me by one of the more experienced players at the tournament.

And then maybe something like Nevinyrral's Disk to wipe the board clean if I get devastated by cards like Solitary Confinement, Elephant Grass, or Iona.

Anyway, it was a rough night. (But it's okay, because I'm learning.)

Technically, enchantress is bad matchup. The only real way to defend against it is dystopia and make them discard their cards (duress, liliana, hymn), and then you could still get destroyed by replenish, so some graveyard hate is also good.You can run also run Nevinyrral's Disk, but when it is decent against enchantress, it's not that good against everything else.

[berksowl]

Technically, enchantress is bad matchup. The only real way to defend against it is dystopia and make them discard their cards (duress, liliana, hymn), and then you could still get destroyed by replenish, so some graveyard hate is also good.You can run also run Nevinyrral's Disk, but when it is decent against enchantress, it's not that good against everytahing else.


Also, I was thinking about Ratchet Bomb to wipe away some enchantments. But anyway, I did board in Dystopia. It had some effect, but not enough.

[zenitramleirdag]

But at my last tournament i realized another problem: the goblin matchup. Ok in both games i was screwed on two lands thanks to his ports, but hey after 2 ringleaders there was absolutly no chance of winning one game. I know on the paper the matchup seems to be an 50%-matchup, but on sunday the reality one again showed how fast goblins can be even if you can kill his first turn lackys:([/QUOTE]


how about contagion honey? they usually hurt weenie decks..just a suggestion..

[orcanmail]

Here's my mono black hand / land destruction build, slight variation but works well

4 x snuff out
4 x dark ritual
4 x diregraf ghoul
4 x duress ( need inquisitions )
3 x diabolic edict
4 x hymn to tourach
4 x sinkhole
3 x nantuko shade
3 x stromgald crusader
3 x umezawas jitte
4 x hypnotic specter
4x wasteland
16 x swamp

sb
4 x leyline of the void
4 x chalice of the void
1 x diabolic edict
3 x gatekeeperof malakir
3 x dystopia

i keep winning with this build, sinkholes and hymns with wastelands and duress/inquisition, with removal and creatures plus jittes is lethal. Old school but overlooked. Playtest it and see.

[unicoerner]

Unfortunately this is not The Gate. In your build i still would consider Bob, because he's just a blast and ritual into discard+ bob is just sick .


Here's my mono black hand / land destruction build, slight variation but works well

4 x snuff out
4 x dark ritual
4 x diregraf ghoul
4 x duress ( need inquisitions )
3 x diabolic edict
4 x hymn to tourach
4 x sinkhole
3 x nantuko shade
3 x stromgald crusader
3 x umezawas jitte
4 x hypnotic specter
4x wasteland
16 x swamp

sb
4 x leyline of the void
4 x chalice of the void
1 x diabolic edict
3 x gatekeeperof malakir
3 x dystopia

i keep winning with this build, sinkholes and hymns with wastelands and duress/inquisition, with removal and creatures plus jittes is lethal. Old school but overlooked. Playtest it and see.

[IcedNeonFlames]

Against Enchantress, I was obviously lacking enchantment removal. What would people bring in their sideboard to a local meta where they expected to see at least one or two Enchantress decks? I was thinking Contamination, which I know has been discussed quite a bit in this thread. Or maybe Infernal Darkness, which was suggested to me by one of the more experienced players at the tournament.


1. Dystopia, if landed early, can wreck havoc. Couple it with Liliana and bad things can happen for them.
2. Contamination is useless once they have a land with Utopia Sprawl and/or Wild Growth on them.

[Syaoran]

I'm thinking of building the gate, but a few glaring issues I want to ask about first:

1) How do we deal with the white leyline? Cry deeply?

2) Lilliana pro and cons?

3) If going the non-wasteland route, how is lashwrith? I remember standard infect (gasp! how dare I mention it) ran it and did hilarious things with lifelink and infect.

4) As odd as it may seem, against creature heavy decks, would avatar of woe be any good? (I don't think so, but given how easily graveyards can fill with this deck, I think she should at least be discussed, given reasons why she's terrible, and move on)

[KobeBryan]

I'm thinking of building the gate, but a few glaring issues I want to ask about first:

1) How do we deal with the white leyline? Cry deeply?

2) Lilliana pro and cons?

3) If going the non-wasteland route, how is lashwrith? I remember standard infect (gasp! how dare I mention it) ran it and did hilarious things with lifelink and infect.

4) As odd as it may seem, against creature heavy decks, would avatar of woe be any good? (I don't think so, but given how easily graveyards can fill with this deck, I think she should at least be discussed, given reasons why she's terrible, and move on)

dystopia

[berksowl]

dystopia

Cards like Elephant Grass, Iona, or Leyline of Sanctity are deadly against The Gate. Dystopia is nice, but against an Enchantress deck that is casting three or four green or white enchantments per turn, it's not going to do much. If an Iona has landed, it does nothing. And against Leyline of Sanctity it might be only marginally more helpful.

So is an all-purpose removal tool like Ratchet Bomb not a bad idea in the sideboard?

Leyline of Sanctity is not nearly as devastating for us as Elephant Grass or Iona, is it? If you're laying Innocent Blood, you still have some removal. And if you're playing Liliana, you still have some discard.

[Greenpoe]

Dystopia is great because it answers so many things. It's pretty backbreaking against Maverick, while still being good vs. Enchantress, RUG, Leyline, Progenitus etc.

[KobeBryan]

Cards like Elephant Grass, Iona, or Leyline of Sanctity are deadly against The Gate. Dystopia is nice, but against an Enchantress deck that is casting three or four green or white enchantments per turn, it's not going to do much. If an Iona has landed, it does nothing. And against Leyline of Sanctity it might be only marginally more helpful.

So is an all-purpose removal tool like Ratchet Bomb not a bad idea in the sideboard?

Leyline of Sanctity is not nearly as devastating for us as Elephant Grass or Iona, is it? If you're laying Innocent Blood, you still have some removal. And if you're playing Liliana, you still have some discard.

I've beat through elephant grass with dystopia so many times.

If you are really worried about enchantments, you should play a splash of green.

Or better yet, don't use this deck in your meta if there are actually people playing elephant grass or leyline of sanctity.

Iona, a very common card in reanimator builds, you gotta use grave yard hate.

[ThediscoPower]

I've beat through elephant grass with dystopia so many times.

If you are really worried about enchantments, you should play a splash of green.

Or better yet, don't use this deck in your meta if there are actually people playing elephant grass or leyline of sanctity.

Iona, a very common card in reanimator builds, you gotta use grave yard hate.

This is what I ended up concluding too. white leyline usually just means that you will cry deeply, and I find it to be indirectly as devastating as iona or elephant grass. The fact is, it literally shuts down like half the deck (if not more), including your many ways to stall the game (in discard based disruption and player targeted sac). It puts you in that weird position where you have to outrace them with all you can get, and without your discard spells or your sacrifice based removal, you are staring the race behind.

It's sad to say, but dystopia is the only real way you have, because I think that even rachet bomb will take too much time to get online and get rid of leyline (consider that if you are playing against combo, for instance, and that they turn 0 leyline you, it's usually too late for you). So yeah, against iona, faerie macabre and/or extirpate and/or surgical extraction is needed.

If you want to know, I just dropped the deck in my local meta when I saw, two tournaments in a row, 6 turn 0 leylines, for the 3 rounds of the tournament. It just shattered all hope I had to make it work in that meta.

I fully agree with Avatar of Shadow on these points

[zenitramleirdag]

hi there everyone(please excuse my english, im not a native speaker), haven't played for more than a decade.i've always loved mono-black..so when i came across this thread, i really fell in love with the idea..i ended up buiding the deck..i playtested it to get more familiar with it..

but anyways, i brought it to a legacy tournament last week. i took the old school route, im kinda toying with the idea of adding the liliana's though..

so here is the list i played:




-CREATURES
3 abyssal persecutor
4 gatekeeper of malakir
4 vampire nighthawk
2 faerie macabre
4 dark confidant

-DISCARD
4 duress
3 cabal therapy
3 hymn to tourach

-REMOVAL
3 innocent blood
2 smother
1 spinning darkness

-ARTIFACT
2 umezzawa's jitte
1 sword of light and shadow

-OTHER SPELLS
3 bitter blossom

-LANDS
18 swamp
3 wasteland


-SIDEBOARD
1 hymn to tourach
2 dystopia(during the tournament, it kinda felt like i should be packing more than 2 of these babies, coz it felt like they didnt come out as often as they should..)
2 perish
2 gloom(im not sold out on these yet, i feel like i could use the 2 slots for better cards)
2 extirpate
2 faerie macabre
2 nevinyrral's disk
2 sadistic sacrament

-GAME 1- CANADIAN THRESH
for some reason i didn't draw percy and removals here for 2 games straight, i was stuck with my 2/1's and 2/2's..he picked my creatures apart with lightning bolts and forked bolt and beat me down with goyf and, game 2 i boarded in 2 dystopias and 2 perish but it was basically the same(though canadian thresh is a good deck, im not totally convinced that its better than the gate, felt like it was just a fluke coz i believe that my deck can handle everything he throws at me).. 0-2 :frown:

-GAME 2- BELCHER
this sucks coz i have to go up against a friend, and whats worse? he's playing belcher, i think discard is our only primary weapon against it, but turns out i got very lucky..
i went first and duressed his goblin charbelcher, on his turn he casts gitaxian probe, he laughed when he saw my extirpate..on my 2nd turn i casted hymn to tourach, he didnt recover after that while percy and nighthawk pummeled him. game 2 was really funny, I casted cabal therapy game i named goblin charbelcher, ha ha ha, he had 2 of them in his opening hand, he didnt do much on HIS turns after i therapied his belcher..suddenly he casts empty the warrens, giving him maybe 10 or 12 1/1's..good think i have 2 nighthawks on he field that bought me enough time until i top decked a nev's..i figured something like this can happen so i boarded the disks..though i won, i still believe that 9 times out of ten, he'll win, i just got lucky i guess..
2-0 :smile:

-GAME 3- WHITE STAX
this match was painful to watch, especially game 1..
0-2 :frown:

-GAME 4- STONEBLADE
i won game one with bitterblossom and jitte not much to say here, on game 2, he won coz i got mana screwed.(that only happened once in the entire tourney)..we ran out of time on the 3rd match so the judge called it a tie..


i know this wasnt a very good tournament result but i enjoyed playing the deck coz it has very few bad match ups..

i need some suggestions on how to make the deck better..

also i want to thank hollywood for creating this deck, more power to you, im a fan!

[Loghead]

Hi all!
I have been playing magic for quiet a few years mainly with friends,i have not attended any tournaments.The gate decktype caught my attention since i always liked mono-black,so here are a few questions:

1.Although bitterblossom and umezawa's jitte are pretty awesome cards,I don't get how they fit in this deck...I mean this deck doesn't strike me as a clear aggro deck.I would like to see nantuko shade-hypnotic specter-sinkhole(perhaps..?) to make it more disruptive.

2.Isn't Lilianna of the veil better than gatekeeper,if you make up with nantuko or hypnotic for the low amount of creatures?

Thanks:-)

[mordraid]

Hi all!
I have been playing magic for quiet a few years mainly with friends,i have not attended any tournaments.The gate decktype caught my attention since i always liked mono-black,so here are a few questions:

1.Although bitterblossom and umezawa's jitte are pretty awesome cards,I don't get how they fit in this deck...I mean this deck doesn't strike me as a clear aggro deck.I would like to see nantuko shade-hypnotic specter-sinkhole(perhaps..?) to make it more disruptive.

2.Isn't Lilianna of the veil better than gatekeeper,if you make up with nantuko or hypnotic for the low amount of creatures?

Thanks:-)

1. Nantuko shade needs a lot of mana and you'll almost want to cast something on turns 3-4. Bitterblossom can sit there for no mana and chump block for a long time.

Sinkhole is a cute card but outside of a pox deck it, sadly, got no real purpose. Many of the top decks can run on a low count of lands or are packing mana creatures, making sinkhole less effective.

2- Liliana of the veil is pretty good in that kind of deck and i run 3 myself. Hypnotic specter is quite slow by today legacy's standards and Liliana of the veil do almost the same thing as good old hippie bue it does even more, all that while being harder to remove.

Delver of secrets is everywhere and hypnotic specter will have a hard time hitting the oponent if delver is out. Unless you ritual it 1st turn, specter is mostly a dead play by the time it comes into play. I would rather ritual a 1st turn liliana than an hypnotic specter in today's metagame.

I would rather try to strip their hands and kill the creatures they put into play in the first 3-4 turns, and then, lunch a must awnser like phyrexian obliterator or abyssal persecutor. Persecutor is pretty good right now with the use of innocent blood and mongeeses spawning everywhere.

[berksowl]

Hi all!
I have been playing magic for quiet a few years mainly with friends,i have not attended any tournaments.The gate decktype caught my attention since i always liked mono-black,so here are a few questions:

1.Although bitterblossom and umezawa's jitte are pretty awesome cards,I don't get how they fit in this deck...I mean this deck doesn't strike me as a clear aggro deck.I would like to see nantuko shade-hypnotic specter-sinkhole(perhaps..?) to make it more disruptive.

2.Isn't Lilianna of the veil better than gatekeeper,if you make up with nantuko or hypnotic for the low amount of creatures?

Thanks:-)

Bitterblossom and Jitte go great together, and they give all the removal and discard a purpose, which is to have a flying creature equipped and dealing damage no later than turn 4 hopefully.

Could this deck survive without the Jitte? Yes. Granted, it lacks a way to tutor for it, without playing white. But then even with Jitte (and it is with 3x Jitte that I think this deck is best), this deck will likely struggle in many metas.

Bitterblossom, on the other hand, is a must. It's how you survive long enough to play a Vampire Nighthawk, or a Persy, or an Obliterator.

[RKPW]

So I wrote a little bit about taking this deck to a side event at the GP, and I'm thinking of playing it again at the SCG open in Indy.

I feel in my testing, that I've had a crushing matchup against sneakyshow and RUG delver, and solid against maverick. And doesn't really just auto lose to any kind of combo deck.

here's the list i've settled on, but I have a couple ideas in mind still.

2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Faerie Macabre or possibly // 2 Demonic Taskmaster // 2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk

3 Bitterblossom
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Duress
2 Extirpate
1 Geth's Verdict
2 Innocent Blood
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Thoughtseize
2 Umezawa's Jitte

17 Swamp
4 Wasteland

sideboard:
2 Duress
2 Engineered Plague // or Dread of Night
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Extirpate
2 Null Rod
2 Perish // or Dystopia
3 Pithing Needle

I feel that extirpate is a very strong card. Hitting an emrakul with an edict or thoughtseize, and following that up with an extirpate against sneak and show? Extirpating any combo piece sneak/show/grizzlybrand/emrakul. or STP vs Maverick. Plus you get a free peek at their deck, and hand for cabal therapy.

I'm happy with it. The macabre spot i feel could be different, depending on what I'm expecting. lots o' snapcasters or dredge, I feel its right. But i wanna test the Taskmaster, he's a black Sea Drake that fits perfectly into the gate I believe.

[berksowl]

here's the list i've settled on, but I have a couple ideas in mind still.

2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Faerie Macabre or possibly // 2 Demonic Taskmaster // 2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk

3 Bitterblossom
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Duress
2 Extirpate
1 Geth's Verdict
2 Innocent Blood
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Thoughtseize
2 Umezawa's Jitte

17 Swamp
4 Wasteland

sideboard:
2 Duress
2 Engineered Plague // or Dread of Night
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Extirpate
2 Null Rod
2 Perish // or Dystopia
3 Pithing Needle

I like it. 2 Persy and 2 Demonic Taskmaster is a nice package.

I'd want to run those creatures, and 2x Liliana, and one more Jitte (3 total). I'd probably scrap the Sword of Light and Shadow. An dI think you have more creature removal than you really need. 4 Gatekeeper + 2 Liliana + 4 total of InnocentBlood/Geth'sVerdict/DiabolicEdict seems like enough. I'd take 4x Innocent Blood, because once you're ahead in the creature race, or if you have a Nighthawk out or a Jitte equipped, you won't care so much about creature removal spells.

You might also consider making room for 2x Sensei's Divining Top and some black fetchlands. It helps a lot in coming up with answers, and it helps with the Bob.

[RKPW]

I like it. 2 Persy and 2 Demonic Taskmaster is a nice package.

I'd want to run those creatures, and 2x Liliana, and one more Jitte (3 total). I'd probably scrap the Sword of Light and Shadow. An dI think you have more creature removal than you really need. 4 Gatekeeper + 2 Liliana + 4 total of InnocentBlood/Geth'sVerdict/DiabolicEdict seems like enough. I'd take 4x Innocent Blood, because once you're ahead in the creature race, or if you have a Nighthawk out or a Jitte equipped, you won't care so much about creature removal spells.

You might also consider making room for 2x Sensei's Divining Top and some black fetchlands. It helps a lot in coming up with answers, and it helps with the Bob.

The singleton SoLaS has been really nice actually. Lifegain is great for this deck, and it works well in recurring creatures like Gatekeeper ;)

I was running the full four of innocent blood, but instant speed edicts seem better against sneak and show.

I might try and find room for a liliana, i do love me some liliana action. Maybe cut an innocent blood and something else.

EDIT:
also, just noticed that Cavern of Souls naming Vampire or Demon seems really good. Gonna try it out.

If I added fetchlands, i'd be tempted to add my bayous for some green action out of the board. Maybe not a bad idea. But then come the goyfs and what not lol.

[berksowl]

instant speed edicts seem better against sneak and show

That's a good thought.

[nedleeds]

That's a good thought.

Dropping Nevinyrral's Disk off Show and Tell is pretty good as well. Fleshbag Marauder is the black Gilded Drake as well.

[bobomb]

Hey Guys,

I just joined this forum but I've been a longtime Magic player. I learned the game new years night 1993, and I've maintained a decent collection ever since. I guess I would call myself a Legacy player although it's mostly at the informal casual level. The only DCI sactioned events I have played were prerelease drafts. I played Legacy at a weekly tourney while in college and I'm looking to get back into it.

Anyways I guess you could consider my deck "The Gate". Or maybe a wanna-be Eva Green.

Here's what I run:

Guys: 14
3 Tombstalker
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir

Support: 26
3 Dark Ritual
3 Funeral Charm
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Victim of Night
3 Bitterblossom
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Land: 20
10 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Extirpate
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Pithing Needle

I'm thinking about bringing this list to a Legacy tournament in 2 weeks. I've done testing against Zoo, Burn, Stompy MUD, Goblins, Ravager Affinity, Dream Halls, Stax, Merfolk, Psycatog, Countertop, TES, Dredge.... Others I'm sure as well. But I've played a lot of matches to arrive at this build. It runs quite well.


I have a few concerns with it still though:

- I feel like the mana in the sideboard is a waste, but since I only have modern duals, only bringing them in when I need them helps offset the fetch land damage. Plus the whole Wasteland thing...

- I should probably change the card count around. I feel like I have too many 3 of's and maybe some of them should be 4 of's and others should be 2 of's. It's hard to decide though lol.

- The 3 Cabal Therapy should probably be Thoughtseize, but I don't have them and I'm not sure Duress or IoK are strong enough.

- I'm thinking about cutting the 3 Dark Ritual for 2 Duress (or IoK) and 1 Reanimate. I know a single Reanimate is totally random but I've ran it a few times and it has won me games. Worst case I pitch it with Liliana, best case I use it after clearing the board with Deed and really need a creature, usually Vampire Nighthawk. I love some of the openings I get with Dark Ritual though.


Are there any other issues you guys see with this deck? Looking at decklists throughout this thread, mine is quite different in a few areas, so I was hoping for some critique.

Thanks for looking, this is a great site.

[berksowl]

Hey Guys,

I just joined this forum but I've been a longtime Magic player. I learned the game new years night 1993, and I've maintained a decent collection ever since. I guess I would call myself a Legacy player although it's mostly at the informal casual level. The only DCI sactioned events I have played were prerelease drafts. I played Legacy at a weekly tourney while in college and I'm looking to get back into it.

Anyways I guess you could consider my deck "The Gate". Or maybe a wanna-be Eva Green.

Here's what I run:

Guys: 14
3 Tombstalker
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir

Support: 26
3 Dark Ritual
3 Funeral Charm
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Victim of Night
3 Bitterblossom
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Land: 20
10 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Extirpate
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Pithing Needle

I'm thinking about bringing this list to a Legacy tournament in 2 weeks. I've done testing against Zoo, Burn, Stompy MUD, Goblins, Ravager Affinity, Dream Halls, Stax, Merfolk, Psycatog, Countertop, TES, Dredge.... Others I'm sure as well. But I've played a lot of matches to arrive at this build. It runs quite well.


I have a few concerns with it still though:

- I feel like the mana in the sideboard is a waste, but since I only have modern duals, only bringing them in when I need them helps offset the fetch land damage. Plus the whole Wasteland thing...

- I should probably change the card count around. I feel like I have too many 3 of's and maybe some of them should be 4 of's and others should be 2 of's. It's hard to decide though lol.

- The 3 Cabal Therapy should probably be Thoughtseize, but I don't have them and I'm not sure Duress or IoK are strong enough.

- I'm thinking about cutting the 3 Dark Ritual for 2 Duress (or IoK) and 1 Reanimate. I know a single Reanimate is totally random but I've ran it a few times and it has won me games. Worst case I pitch it with Liliana, best case I use it after clearing the board with Deed and really need a creature, usually Vampire Nighthawk. I love some of the openings I get with Dark Ritual though.


Are there any other issues you guys see with this deck? Looking at decklists throughout this thread, mine is quite different in a few areas, so I was hoping for some critique.

Thanks for looking, this is a great site.

I think IoK is strong enough. But Cabal Therapy is good, especially with Bitterblossom.

That said, I like Iok and Thoughtseize more than Cabal Therapy, since I don't always trust myself with Cabal Therapy. I'm still pretty new to Legacy, and I don't always read my opponent's deck correctly, so that I can't always predict correctly for Cabal Therapy.

Instead of Victim of Night, I'd suggest Smother or Snuff Out. I'd also suggest Innocent Blood or Diabolic Edict to complement those removal spells.

I'd consider Liliana of the Veil also.

[mahou_shoujo]

Artifacts like Ensnaring Bridge give this deck an arse raping. green splash just might be the way to go

[Greenpoe]

Guys: 14
3 Tombstalker
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir

Support: 26
3 Dark Ritual
3 Funeral Charm
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Victim of Night
3 Bitterblossom
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Land: 20
10 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Extirpate
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Pithing Needle


I would really recommend cutting Urborgs for either basics or Wastelands. You don't want your manabase to be open to wasteland after all. Futhermore, give some consideration to Phyrexian Obliterator. The guy is on a whole other level than Persecutor or Tombstalker since he's got significantly better defensive & offensive capabilities.

[MoxBropal]

Anybody have Davis Merced's list from SCG Detroit? He was the one in the feature match against Teresa Buss (Maverick)

[xdavisx]

Anybody have Davis Merced's list from SCG Detroit? He was the one in the feature match against Teresa Buss (Maverick)

this

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Innocent Blood
3 Bitterblossom
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
11 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Vampire Hexmage
2 Perish
1 Darkblast
2 Massacre
2 Null Rod
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Gaea's Blessing

[MoxBropal]

Thanks for the list! Great to see you and the gate in another feature match.

How did Gaea's blessing work out?

[trivial_matters]

Why play fetch lands without Tombstalker? I don't think it's worth it just for the two Tops, especially with RUG packing Stifle and being so popular.

[xdavisx]

the shuffle effect with top was pretty good to me throughout the day. i went 3 for 3 against RUG and only got blown out by stifle once. i tried waste landing his volcanic island on turn 1 and got stifled, i still ended up winning that game too.

didn't get a chance to use gaea's blessing but i did sit next to painter servant and a high tide player. i only lost to maverick and dead guy, i feel at least 2 dread of night or engineered plague need to have a spot in the board. lingering souls just wrecks the gate.

i did play against the cheater guy in round 7 and the guy was a tool.

[Michael Keller]

I am greatly interested in revisiting this deck in the near future.

[zenitramleirdag]

yes please mr. hollywood sir..knowing that you're gonna dust off and tweak and update your old "THE GATE" deck will be totally inspiring..
:laugh:

[wuberg]

I am greatly interested in revisiting this deck in the near future.

As someone who is new to Legacy and have decided to enter via The Gate, I'm really looking forward to your comments concerning The Gate in the current meta!

[xdavisx]

is chrome mox worth considering again?

[FieryBalrog]

gonna bring this to my local legacy tournament tomorrow for kicks. Still finalizing a list, mostly based on what I have left lying around after I traded a bunch of stuff for EDH.

[Firstborn]

I am greatly interested in revisiting this deck in the near future.

I'll really look forward to that. Thanks :)

[zenitramleirdag]

i've heard from some people that the GATE may sometimes not be fast enough to handle very fast aggro decks like goblins or elves..

what do you guys think of contagion? its a pitch card so the cost doesn't really matter, and the loss of 1 life is hardly painful at all compared to dismember..

just my 2-cents..

[xdavisx]

i've heard from some people that the GATE may sometimes not be fast enough to handle very fast aggro decks like goblins or elves..

what do you guys think of contagion? its a pitch card so the cost doesn't really matter, and the loss of 1 life is hardly painful at all compared to dismember..

just my 2-cents..

i've never had a problem with goblins or elves, it comes down to if you got the turn 1 innocent blood or discard spell. if you can follow it up with a turn two hymn it becomes pretty hard for them to recover after that. AND games 2 and 3 you bring in more hate in the form of dark blast/engineered plague/perish. favorable match ups that i would take all day.

[xdavisx]

I should add that I did rock the Gate at SCG St. Louis the other weekend. I'll try to give a quick rundown the best I can remember. I had miserable match ups throughout the day. that's that shit I don't like.

The deck is about the same as from last time, I cut a sword for a 3rd jitte and a macabre for a 3 thoughtseize. In the sideboard I added dread of nights, engineered plague and duress.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Innocent Blood
3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
11 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Vampire Hexmage
2 Perish
2 Massacre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
2 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Plague


Round 1-Merfolk
I mulligan both games and get stuck on 2 land when I'm staring down at a hand full of nighthawks/gatekeepers/liliana :(
0-1

This is where the misery starts
Round 2- Reanimator
He combos game 1 and crushes me. Games 2 and 3 I bring in all the hate and smash. In game 3 I win the game with an 0/1 nighthawk with an active jitte while he has an elesh norn on the table. The dude gave a shout out to the gate and said he respects anyone playing it at big event. :cool:
1-1

Round 3 - Loam
I crush game 1 with jitte and nighthawk. games 2 and 3 he resolves a seismic assault and I go nowhere fast. He kills everything then burns me out. This match up blows.
1-2

Round 4- Dredge
He combos out game 1, I die. Games 2 and 3 the hate comes and we have some grindy games but I come out on top. Vampire hexmage is pretty solid against dredge, you can nuke their bridges and reset a gravetroll if you really need too.
2-2

Round 5- Dredge
AGAIN combos me out game 1 and the hate comes in. I get game 2 but then we have a LONG game 3. I get flooded and don't see much hate. There was a bad judge call that costed me that match. The dude was about to dredge his deck then kinda concedes and picks up the remainder of his library and sort of fans it out (seeing whats in it) then puts it back down. I called him out on it and called a judge, judge didn't do much, it was his word vs mine and I lost.
2-3

Round 6- Storm
He gets me game 1 with a turn 3 tendrils. Game 2 I get there with Bob and discard, boring. Game 3 only goes to turn 4 but was like a 20ish min long game. I force some discard on my turn 1 and he Ad Nauseum's down to 1 and passes the turn. I play an unkicked gatekeeper, hoping that i can untap and swing. He goes off the following turn with diminishing returns, I surgical in response netting an LED and a rite of flame. But he manages to empty the warrens for like 14 goblins. on my turn i start digging for engineered plague with top/fetch lands. I looked at a fresh 3 cards 3 different times and don't find it.
2-4

Round 7- RUG
I finally get a fair match up and take it down. Lots of his dudes died and I get the win.
3-4

Round 8- Sneak & Show
He show and tells turn 1 and I drop a bitterblossom while he drops an emrakul. i cast innocent blood on my turn and kinda win from there. Game 2 I keep a dope hand of thought seize, hymn, cabal therapy and bob and some lands. He drops a white leyline and little part of me dies inside. Luckily he gets a land screwed and I punish him for it with wastelands and such.
4-4

Overall I was still happy with the deck and the way I piloted, I just had some really tough match ups. The positive thing though is that those tough match ups are still winnable.

[zenitramleirdag]

i've never had a problem with goblins or elves, it comes down to if you got the turn 1 innocent blood or discard spell. if you can follow it up with a turn two hymn it becomes pretty hard for them to recover after that. AND games 2 and 3 you bring in more hate in the form of dark blast/engineered plague/perish. favorable match ups that i would take all day.




you're right..perish indeed does the job against elves!
hmm, i might try to fit in some engineered plagues in my SB..
thanks a bunch!

[zenitramleirdag]

I should add that I did rock the Gate at SCG St. Louis the other weekend. I'll try to give a quick rundown the best I can remember. I had miserable match ups throughout the day. that's that shit I don't like.

The deck is about the same as from last time, I cut a sword for a 3rd jitte and a macabre for a 3 thoughtseize. In the sideboard I added dread of nights, engineered plague and duress.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Innocent Blood
3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
11 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Vampire Hexmage
2 Perish
2 Massacre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
2 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Plague


Round 1-Merfolk
I mulligan both games and get stuck on 2 land when I'm staring down at a hand full of nighthawks/gatekeepers/liliana :(
0-1

This is where the misery starts
Round 2- Reanimator
He combos game 1 and crushes me. Games 2 and 3 I bring in all the hate and smash. In game 3 I win the game with an 0/1 nighthawk with an active jitte while he has an elesh norn on the table. The dude gave a shout out to the gate and said he respects anyone playing it at big event. :cool:
1-1

Round 3 - Loam
I crush game 1 with jitte and nighthawk. games 2 and 3 he resolves a seismic assault and I go nowhere fast. He kills everything then burns me out. This match up blows.
1-2

Round 4- Dredge
He combos out game 1, I die. Games 2 and 3 the hate comes and we have some grindy games but I come out on top. Vampire hexmage is pretty solid against dredge, you can nuke their bridges and reset a gravetroll if you really need too.
2-2

Round 5- Dredge
AGAIN combos me out game 1 and the hate comes in. I get game 2 but then we have a LONG game 3. I get flooded and don't see much hate. There was a bad judge call that costed me that match. The dude was about to dredge his deck then kinda concedes and picks up the remainder of his library and sort of fans it out (seeing whats in it) then puts it back down. I called him out on it and called a judge, judge didn't do much, it was his word vs mine and I lost.
2-3

Round 6- Storm
He gets me game 1 with a turn 3 tendrils. Game 2 I get there with Bob and discard, boring. Game 3 only goes to turn 4 but was like a 20ish min long game. I force some discard on my turn 1 and he Ad Nauseum's down to 1 and passes the turn. I play an unkicked gatekeeper, hoping that i can untap and swing. He goes off the following turn with diminishing returns, I surgical in response netting an LED and a rite of flame. But he manages to empty the warrens for like 14 goblins. on my turn i start digging for engineered plague with top/fetch lands. I looked at a fresh 3 cards 3 different times and don't find it.
2-4

Round 7- RUG
I finally get a fair match up and take it down. Lots of his dudes died and I get the win.
3-4

Round 8- Sneak & Show
He show and tells turn 1 and I drop a bitterblossom while he drops an emrakul. i cast innocent blood on my turn and kinda win from there. Game 2 I keep a dope hand of thought seize, hymn, cabal therapy and bob and some lands. He drops a white leyline and little part of me dies inside. Luckily he gets a land screwed and I punish him for it with wastelands and such.
4-4

Overall I was still happy with the deck and the way I piloted, I just had some really tough match ups. The positive thing though is that those tough match ups are still winnable.


very nice report! that's what i like about this deck, it may have tough match-ups but, you're right, they are winnable..:laugh:

i'm not sure what happened in round 5 with the dredge player, but if he was indeed cheating, then that was so uncool..

uhm, have you tried soul spike against ANT? i've heard they're quite effective..

pardon my english. im not a native speaker..

[zenitramleirdag]

I should add that I did rock the Gate at SCG St. Louis the other weekend. I'll try to give a quick rundown the best I can remember. I had miserable match ups throughout the day. that's that shit I don't like.

The deck is about the same as from last time, I cut a sword for a 3rd jitte and a macabre for a 3 thoughtseize. In the sideboard I added dread of nights, engineered plague and duress.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Innocent Blood
3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
11 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Vampire Hexmage
2 Perish
2 Massacre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
2 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Plague


Round 1-Merfolk
I mulligan both games and get stuck on 2 land when I'm staring down at a hand full of nighthawks/gatekeepers/liliana :(
0-1

This is where the misery starts
Round 2- Reanimator
He combos game 1 and crushes me. Games 2 and 3 I bring in all the hate and smash. In game 3 I win the game with an 0/1 nighthawk with an active jitte while he has an elesh norn on the table. The dude gave a shout out to the gate and said he respects anyone playing it at big event. :cool:
1-1

Round 3 - Loam
I crush game 1 with jitte and nighthawk. games 2 and 3 he resolves a seismic assault and I go nowhere fast. He kills everything then burns me out. This match up blows.
1-2

Round 4- Dredge
He combos out game 1, I die. Games 2 and 3 the hate comes and we have some grindy games but I come out on top. Vampire hexmage is pretty solid against dredge, you can nuke their bridges and reset a gravetroll if you really need too.
2-2

Round 5- Dredge
AGAIN combos me out game 1 and the hate comes in. I get game 2 but then we have a LONG game 3. I get flooded and don't see much hate. There was a bad judge call that costed me that match. The dude was about to dredge his deck then kinda concedes and picks up the remainder of his library and sort of fans it out (seeing whats in it) then puts it back down. I called him out on it and called a judge, judge didn't do much, it was his word vs mine and I lost.
2-3

Round 6- Storm
He gets me game 1 with a turn 3 tendrils. Game 2 I get there with Bob and discard, boring. Game 3 only goes to turn 4 but was like a 20ish min long game. I force some discard on my turn 1 and he Ad Nauseum's down to 1 and passes the turn. I play an unkicked gatekeeper, hoping that i can untap and swing. He goes off the following turn with diminishing returns, I surgical in response netting an LED and a rite of flame. But he manages to empty the warrens for like 14 goblins. on my turn i start digging for engineered plague with top/fetch lands. I looked at a fresh 3 cards 3 different times and don't find it.
2-4

Round 7- RUG
I finally get a fair match up and take it down. Lots of his dudes died and I get the win.
3-4

Round 8- Sneak & Show
He show and tells turn 1 and I drop a bitterblossom while he drops an emrakul. i cast innocent blood on my turn and kinda win from there. Game 2 I keep a dope hand of thought seize, hymn, cabal therapy and bob and some lands. He drops a white leyline and little part of me dies inside. Luckily he gets a land screwed and I punish him for it with wastelands and such.
4-4

Overall I was still happy with the deck and the way I piloted, I just had some really tough match ups. The positive thing though is that those tough match ups are still winnable.


very nice report! that's what i like about this deck, it may have tough match-ups but, you're right, they are winnable..:laugh:

i'm not sure what happened in round 5 with the dredge player, but if he was indeed cheating, then that was so uncool..

uhm, have you tried soul spike against ANT? i've heard they're quite effective..

pardon my english. im not a native speaker..

[MoxBropal]

Anybody have any experience with the Lands matchup? How do we beat them in games 2 and 3? (game 1 is obviously an auto-scoop for the most part)

[Michael Keller]

Anybody have any experience with the Lands matchup? How do we beat them in games 2 and 3? (game 1 is obviously an auto-scoop for the most part)

Not if you're running multiples of Faerie Macabre. Being able to cripple Loam/Intuition shenanigans is incredibly useful and can catch an unknowing Lands opponent off guard.

The match is still kind of difficult preboard, though.

[Anen]

Anybody have any experience with the Lands matchup? How do we beat them in games 2 and 3? (game 1 is obviously an auto-scoop for the most part)

Basics, Planeswalkers and grave hate are your best weapons.

[cosboy]

Here is my new list. I will try it in a tournament tomorrow and would like some last minute feedback =)

I would really want more macabres, but have no access to more at the moment.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Abyssal Persecutor

3 Innocent Blood
2 Go for the Throat

3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil

3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress

4 Wasteland
17 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spinning Darkness
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing needle
3 Dystopia

[Michael Keller]

Here is my new list. I will try it in a tournament tomorrow and would like some last minute feedback =)

I would really want more macabres, but have no access to more at the moment.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Abyssal Persecutor

3 Innocent Blood
2 Go for the Throat

3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil

3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress

4 Wasteland
17 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spinning Darkness
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing needle
3 Dystopia

A few things:

1.) Abyssal Persecutor should be at three, not four. You certainly don't want to flip it off Bob multiple times and having multiples in play and your hand is kind of awkward.

2.) Liliana isn't really good in this deck. It's not aggressive and frankly it's more of a liability than anything else. It's not a bad card, I just don't like it in this archetype anymore. (Pox is a different deck all together.)

3.) You should be maxing out on Therapy at four if you opt to run four Persecutor. Not to mention the fact it gives you value with Bitterblossom.

4.) I would cut the 'Throats (no pun intended) and up the Innocent Blood count to four. I would then replace the second 'Throat for the fourth Therapy.

5.) Diversifying your hate is fine, but one Faerie Macabre is kind of awkward. I would run three with a pair of Nihil Spellbomb in there someplace. Faerie gives you value because it can attack, and Spellbomb can replace itself with a draw.

6.) Extirpate is kind of nice, but it doesn't really do anything relevant. I don't advocate cards like Surgical Extraction or Extirpate in mono black variants due in large part to their inability to be completely effective against dedicated graveyard decks. It's uncounterable, sure, but so is Faerie Macabre. The ability to attack is key here. I know you said you don't have access to any more Faeries at the moment, but I'm sure you can find some eventually.

[beez]

Hollywood, what would you use in that 2 mana slot if you didn't have dark confidants? I have used the Bloodgift demon in a fairly competitive deck with the percys and dark rituals and that dude was house (loved only paying one life and getting late game card advantage quick to lock it down), and i never had trouble getting him out because the mono black tends to make for longer grindy games, but in the gate you are getting stuff out quick and beating down, and the dark rits and bloodgifts are 8 slots and i know you would never recommend replacing a 2 drop with a 5 drop.

[LDX]

Hi there! First time posting on The Source, but well, here is where I found The Gate, so I might as well ask my questions in the original thread. First of all, here is the draft decklist I'll attempt to play in few days at a local tournament, with around 32 players. I'll obviously give reviews of my matches when it ends, but I need to make sure this is what I'll use.

Mainboard

4 Dark Confidant
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Abyssal Persecutor

3 Innocent Blood
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Duress

3 Bitterblossom

2 Liliana of the Veil

2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Smother
2 Geth's Verdict

4 Wasteland
17 Swamp

Sideboard

4 Extirpate
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Hymn to Tourach
3 Infest
2 Powder Keg
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Soul Spike
1 Gate to Phyrexia

Justification

Faerie Macabre: I run 2 Faerie Macabre mainboard just because I want to have a chance vs Dredge or Reanimator first match. To be honest, no one in my close meta plays any graveyard-based decks, but I read this thread carefuly and decided to look upon those who tried tournaments and considered it as a must. Mostly Hollywood's reviews to be honest. I trust you.

Duress: I also run Duress over anything else because, as written few pages ago, I do think The Gate is all about creature removal anyway, and that discard is mostly used to give us a chance vs control/combo deck. If my opponent plays a creature I am supposed to be able to get rid of it anyway. I don't have much experience at tournament level but it's the ideology I have behind it. I would like some thoughts on that, please. I do own some Thoughtseize I could use but I feel it's too costly in terms of life, but maybe with the Sensei's Divining Top helping, they could be of use? I'm really willing to hear about it.

Sensei's Divining Top: Well, talking about it, Sensei's Divining Top did help me alot in the few tests I played. Even without any fetch. I never drew more than one in any game and found myself LACKING them when I didn't draw any. I know some people don't play them but according to me I should even have one more. I however think it's more a hype than anything so I stay rational and keep it at 2, but well... has anyone tried them and removed them from their deck? If so, why? What happened?

Liliana of the Veil: Yes, she isn't that much ''aggro''. That's why I don't run 4 of her. She just helps me so hard vs combo decks like High Tide. And even then, at worst, she's a free target or a creature removal. I'm not 100% convinced but so far she was useful.

Umezawa's Jitte / Sword of Light and Shadow: It could be said that the sword is a meta choice and it wouldn't be wrong. Protection from black just help so hard against so many players playing hard removal. Also, the life gain helps so much when Jitte is too busy dealing with creatures. This is the card, in my opinion, that made my deck good when I added it. I don't see any reasons to remove it for an other Jitte, but I'm open to suggestions backed with experience and facts.

Smother / Geth's Verdict: I once got raped by a Merfolk deck using Mutavault. I didn't have any instant removals back then, and I did regret it hard. This is why I added these, but I don't know if they are the good cards. I do know I need some instant removals but I'm still unsure on which to use. Suggestions?

Sideboard options: First of all, Infest vs aggro in my meta, would it be Affinity, Merfoks, Goblins, Knights or Elves. I mostly played vs Elves in my test and I found this to be of use, didn't own any Perish back then but even now I run Infest over it, it helps vs more things, in my opinion. Then, Extirpate for graveyard hate, I think it justifies itself, Hymn to Tourach and Cabal Therapy vs Burn and combo decks. I run 2 Soul Spike because of one single reason: the first game I played in a tournament ever, I got owned turn 2 by an ANT deck. He killed me right away when I was playing Zoo. I swore to myself it would never happen anymore. I also run 2 Powder Keg for tokens, mostly Miracles decks, 1 Gate to Phyrexia vs Affinity (Bitterblossom helps so much in this match) and 1 Ratchet Bomb vs my nightmare: Leyline of Sanctity. HOW TO BEAT THIS CARD!!?

Questions
I do have alot of questions on how to play this deck but I will make it short. Most importantly I want to know what to sideboard in/out vs what match-up. Just a case, vs a Burn deck, what to do? I so far side in Cabal Therapy and Hymn to Tourach and remove some removals, but what more can I do? Extirpate in, but what do I get out? Dark Confidant, since it auto dies vs a Lightning Bolt?

What about ANT? Belcher? High Tide? Any deck running Leyline of Sanctity? I never know what to side out and mostly go with feelings, but feelings aren't always helping.

I also have problems at dealing with timing, like, when to play aggro, when to play control, etc. If I have the choice between playing a Dark Confidant or using a Smother, what should I do? I guess it's depending on the situation, but is there a general line to follow? I mostly need to know when to play my creatures instead of other cards, that's about it.

On the same topic, is it better to equip Jitte when it's not THAT needed, or should I play more discard spells since I have time? Tough decisions to make.

I obviously have more questions but it won't come out now. Thank you for reading and I'll answer if I find more inspiration.

TL/DR: Can I have a general overview of my decklist, with some constructives comments based on facts and experience?

[dsck]

@LDX

Many of the questions you asked are things you learn through playing. My favourite cards when I played the Gate were Cabal Therapy, Jitte and Dark Confidant. I'd max out Therapies and cut maybe Geth's Verdicts.

Regarding sideboard, I personally had 2-3 Dark Rituals for combo and otherwise very fast matchups like infect stompy. Dystopias are awesome and I wouldnt play this deck without them @ your sideboard.

Extirpates and Gate to Phyrexia arent cards I think you should spend so many sideboard slots on. I also believe there are better things than Infests, Powder Kegs and Ratchet Bombs out there. You really need to take your time and research what you need. I for example had some Phyrexian Revokers and they did some work ;) They are quite good against Sneak Attack, Griselbrand and Lion's Eye Diamonds if those are popular where you play.

Against burn try to slow them down with discard and drop Nighthawk/or get Jitte'd creature out there. Sideboard out Confidants, Bitterblossoms and some Innocent bloods. Do not sideboard in Extirpates, those are waste of cards, your opponent has his deck full of 3 damage 1 mana burn spells and he doesnt care if you extirpate some away.

I'd also recommend reading Caleb's article on Cabal Therapy (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-therapy-session/)

Card tags are [ /cards] instead of [c] + .

[Qweerios]

What do you guys think of the new demon for the gate?

[LDX]

@LDX

Many of the questions you asked are things you learn through playing. My favourite cards when I played the Gate were Cabal Therapy, Jitte and Dark Confidant. I'd max out Therapies and cut maybe Geth's Verdicts.

Regarding sideboard, I personally had 2-3 Dark Rituals for combo and otherwise very fast matchups like infect stompy. Dystopias are awesome and I wouldnt play this deck without them @ your sideboard.

Extirpates and Gate to Phyrexia arent cards I think you should spend so many sideboard slots on. I also believe there are better things than Infests, Powder Kegs and Ratchet Bombs out there. You really need to take your time and research what you need. I for example had some Phyrexian Revokers and they did some work ;) They are quite good against Sneak Attack, Griselbrand and Lion's Eye Diamonds if those are popular where you play.

Against burn try to slow them down with discard and drop Nighthawk/or get Jitte'd creature out there. Sideboard out Confidants, Bitterblossoms and some Innocent bloods. Do not sideboard in Extirpates, those are waste of cards, your opponent has his deck full of 3 damage 1 mana burn spells and he doesnt care if you extirpate some away.

I'd also recommend reading Caleb's article on Cabal Therapy (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-weapon-therapy-session/)

Card tags are [ /cards] instead of [c] + .

Well, thank you for your response. Being honest you convinced me on Dystopia, I might cut the Powder Keg and the Ratchet Bomb for them, with maybe Gate to Phyrexia. It's the best card I've seen so far vs Leyline, and I'll keep it until it is sacrified. Don't you lose too much life tho?

I think I understand why you're running the Revoker as The Gate is all about 2 effects cards, and that would be the reason why you don't have any Pitching Needle in your deck. Am I correct on this? Or should I ask why wouldn't you play Pitching Needle over Revoker?

In fact the only place I find myself confused is on Extirpate. I believe this card is just amazing, I see it as a way to remove a threat permanently, and that why opponent won't be able to play that ever again. I mean, a Burn deck with no more Lighting Bolt is just good to face, no? Or a Show and Tell deck with no more Show and Tell. How isn't it good? I'm open but I would like to understand your reasoning.

And hmm, thanks for the tag info and the article on Cabal Therapy. I appreciate.

[dsck]

Well, thank you for your response. Being honest you convinced me on Dystopia, I might cut the Powder Keg and the Ratchet Bomb for them, with maybe Gate to Phyrexia. It's the best card I've seen so far vs Leyline, and I'll keep it until it is sacrified. Don't you lose too much life tho?

I think I understand why you're running the Revoker as The Gate is all about 2 effects cards, and that would be the reason why you don't have any Pitching Needle in your deck. Am I correct on this? Or should I ask why wouldn't you play Pitching Needle over Revoker?

In fact the only place I find myself confused is on Extirpate. I believe this card is just amazing, I see it as a way to remove a threat permanently, and that why opponent won't be able to play that ever again. I mean, a Burn deck with no more Lighting Bolt is just good to face, no? Or a Show and Tell deck with no more Show and Tell. How isn't it good? I'm open but I would like to understand your reasoning.

And hmm, thanks for the tag info and the article on Cabal Therapy. I appreciate.

The life loss is doable with 6-7 cards that gain you life. You can choose not to pay for it and sac it if you have new Dystopia in your hand as well.

Revoker carries equipment and is better against combo than pithing needle. Against Planeswalkers I wish I had needle though. Im not saying you cant play both :wink:

Against show and tell decks Extirpate can be amazing. But against consistent decks with fast clock you basically discard a card for 1 back mana from your own hand. Why do you care if burn deck doesnt have lightning bolts? They have 16 another lightning bolt type cards left in their deck and you wasted your mana and a card from your hand. And there isnt that many long grindy matchups where you need extirpate, bitterblossom and hymn do well enough in those.


Im thinking of picking this deck up on MTGO, everything except wastelands seem quite cheap and reasonable :tongue:

[LDX]

Why exactly is Revoker better against combo, and what do you think about cutting 2 Extirpate for 1 Hymn and 1 Cabal Therapy? Would it be better?

[dsck]

Revoker shuts Lion's Eye Diamond/Lotus Petal and attacks. Against Show and Tell you drop it and if they reveal griselbrand you name it, if they reveal sneak attack you name that. I'd still play full 4 Cabal Therapy maindeck. 2 Hymns or Mindbreak Traps instead of extirpates sounds okay.

[LDX]

I must admit I missed the part where it says ''UNLESS THEY ARE MANA ABILITIES'' on Pithing Needle. Thank you for opening my eyes. I guess the best I can do is to still read and try to play as much as possible.

[Hardcore]

@LDX leyline is a piece of shit; any good combo player will prefer not to wreck his deck with dead cards. Non-combo players have just put 3-4 cards into the deck to counter 8-10 discard. Net gain 4 -6 cards only.

Burn is easy. Once his hand is empty gee will struggle. Hymn and jitte are King.

[cosboy]

Thanks for the feedback Hollywood.

I ended up running this list on Tuesday:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Abyssal Persecutor

4 Innocent Blood

3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress

4 Wasteland
17 Swamp

Sideboard

1 Faerie Macabre
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Spinning Darkness
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing needle
3 Dystopia


First round, I played against a deck with Chains of Mephistopeles, which turned out to be an easy win (2-0). I didn't sideboard that match.

Second round, I played against Esperblade and lost quite fast. I think I would have had a better chance if I sideboarded in more cards. But I have always had problems with that deck. I lost 0-2.

Third round, I met a RGW-deck and everything in my deck just worked. Didn't sideboard that match either and won 2-0.

Unfortunately, I couldn't stay for the fourth round.

Finally, I must say I really like to play with this deck.

[cosboy]

What do you all think about Desecration Demon instead of Abyssal Persecutor?

[Greenpoe]

Descration Demon is worse than Persecutor as a creature, but running it allows you to cut the Therapies and such. It may be a good replacement in a green-splashed version, allowing you to run Abrupt Decay (and Goyf obviously). It could run some SB Deeds, too.

[cosboy]

Descration Demon is worse than Persecutor as a creature, but running it allows you to cut the Therapies and such. It may be a good replacement in a green-splashed version, allowing you to run Abrupt Decay (and Goyf obviously). It could run some SB Deeds, too.

I see two other benefits. You can play more than one. With Persecutor, you normally don't want 2 on the battlefield. Also, it is a way to get rid of opponents creatures.

On the bad side, it might not be able to block.

[MoxBropal]

I'm not sold on Desecration Demon. It's not a guaranteed clock like Percy. Also, I can't imagine wanting to run less than 4 Therapies. Used correctly I feel like it's our strongest card.

[ThediscoPower]

I'm not sold on Desecration Demon. It's not a guaranteed clock like Percy. Also, I can't imagine wanting to run less than 4 Therapies. Used correctly I feel like it's our strongest card.

that, and the fact that trample is actually a thing. I don't know about you guys, but lots of lingering souls where I play, and persecutor is actually very good against those. Aside from that, it's also good against bitterblossom and a reasonable way to make sure your swords activate (if you play any).

[MoxBropal]

Question for you guys:

Turn 1 (on the play), you cast Cabal Therapy against Merfolk. Assuming it resolves, what is the best call?

I'd also be interested in your advice against other top decks like RUG Delver and Esper Stoneblade.

[Shawon]

Question for you guys:

Turn 1 (on the play), you cast Cabal Therapy against Merfolk. Assuming it resolves, what is the best call?

I'd also be interested in your advice against other top decks like RUG Delver and Esper Stoneblade.

Aether Vial, if you're on the play.

RUG, I'd name Delver of Secrets on the play.

Esper Stoneblade, Swords to Plowshares.

[MoxBropal]

Should we be playing Deathrite Shaman? Even without the green ability, I feel like he could function kind of like a Grim Lavamancer for us, giving us reach in the long game. Obviously it can't dome creatures but The Gate has plenty of removal for that. What do you guys think?

[Hardcore]

It will be most useful as a Llanowar Elf.

[Galroth]

Two questions:

1) Would replacing Abyssal Persecutor with Phyrexian Obliterator be a viable option. It allows us to run something better than Cabal Therapy and Innocent Blood.

2) What's the argument for not including Dark Ritual? I'm sure this must have been discussed previously. Can anyone summarize?

[Greenpoe]

Obliterator is very good but the argument against it is that you can't cast with it Wasteland (though if you're going to be sacrificing Waste anyway this isn't really relevant).

Dark Ritual is not wanted here because The Gate wants consistency, not explosiveness. If you want to be explosive, play Eva Green.

[MoxBropal]

Cabal Therapy is so powerful I can't imagine wanting to cut it, with or without Persecutor. There is still good synergy with Bitterblossom. Gotta remember that we are dead to a resolved Batterskull and oftentimes Cabal Therapy is the best, if not only way to get rid of it (after they Stoneforge for it).

[AlmostGrown]

I'm looking to pick this deck up. Assuming I have no budget limitations, what would the ideal list be with an unknown meta?

[MoxBropal]

Here is my list. It's tuned for my local meta, but can give you some ideas.

4 Dark Confidant
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk

4 Innocent Blood
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach

2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Bitterblossom
3 Smother
2 Liliana of the Veil


19 Swamp
2 Wasteland

SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari

[cosboy]

This is my current list.

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Abyssal Persecutor

4 Innocent Blood


3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress

4 Wasteland
17 Swamp

Sideboard

3 Faerie Macabre
3 Spinning Darkness
3 Extirpate
3 Pithing needle
3 Dystopia

I plan to replace Extirpate with Thorn of Amethyst, though I am not sure that is the best card to replace. I am also considering Dark Ritual in main, but not sure what I would remove for that.

Any feedback is welcome.

[MoxBropal]

I tried Dark Ritual in the main, and it didn't work too well. We're all about grinding out incremental card advantage, and with ritual we set ourselves up to get completely blown out. For instance, if we go turn 1 Inquisition, and they Force of Will, we basically get a 2-for-1. We like that. If we go Turn 1 Dark Ritual, Nighthawk, and they Force of Will, they just broke even. I think Dark Ritual is best saved for a deck like Pox that wants to operate with an empty hand.

[Hardcore]

The odds for that to happen is very small. IIRC to have a specific card (dark ritual) in starting hand is slightly less than 50%, if you run four copies.
The same applies to your opponent of course. Then you need to win the dice roll for the right to go first. After all if your opponent win he will have a land in play for Daze. Unless you cheat you will win 50% of the rolls. And finally fow is not played by every opponent in a tourney.
So the math is something like:
.5*.5*.5*x = irrelevant risk

[MoxBropal]

I don't disagree with the math. I just don't think The Gate can afford to run Ritual because of the blowout potential AND it being a dead card in the late game.

It's also worth noting that it doesn't have to be Force of Will blowing us out.
Ritual - Creature <---- Swords to Plowshares
Ritual - Bob, Hymn, Bitterblossom, Jitte <--- Spell Pierce

The possibility of any of those plays happening just feels really bad for The Gate.

[dsck]

Why are you discussing dark ritual when theres Deathrite Shaman? Seems awesome for The Gate. Unfortunantely it forces you to have fetches and drop innocent bloods for something else.

[cosboy]

Why are you discussing dark ritual when theres Deathrite Shaman? Seems awesome for The Gate. Unfortunantely it forces you to have fetches and drop innocent bloods for something else.

I don't think Shaman is a good card for The Gate for those reasons. I don't see any point in fetches when running mono and Innocent Blood is one of the stronger cards in this deck in my opinion.

[Hardcore]

I don't disagree with the math. I just don't think The Gate can afford to run Ritual because of the blowout potential AND it being a dead card in the late game.

It's also worth noting that it doesn't have to be Force of Will blowing us out.
Ritual - Creature <---- Swords to Plowshares
Ritual - Bob, Hymn, Bitterblossom, Jitte <--- Spell Pierce

The possibility of any of those plays happening just feels really bad for The Gate.

That is of course Meta dependent. RUG, BG, combo etc etc. Lots of decks that have neither of those cards mentioned.
Myself I am thinking maybe running Hypnotics in my (non-gate) deck.

[MoxBropal]

Speaking of the meta, has anyone tried the Angel of Despair tech in the sideboard for the Sneak and Show matchup?

[loic]

Hi i'm a french canadian (sorry for the english)
And i've made a the gate deck.

First of all thanks for making me discover this awsome list
.... I realy enjoy playing this deck!

Im writting this post because i've encounter a burn deck with
Ensnaring bridge & sulfuric vortex and i just can't win any games...
Ensnaring bridge block my creature... Vortex kill me slowly and stop my
Life gain... I just don't know what to do.

I've try the rack and ratchet bomb but that's to slow...
When i destroy a bridge another come into play very fast..

My deck list is very similar to the classic one with liliana and
Sensei divining top in addition...

If someone have any suggestions that would be realy appreciate.

Thank you! Sorry again for the english mistakes!

[ThediscoPower]

Hi i'm a french canadian (sorry for the english)
And i've made a the gate deck.

First of all thanks for making me discover this awsome list
.... I realy enjoy playing this deck!

Im writting this post because i've encounter a burn deck with
Ensnaring bridge & sulfuric vortex and i just can't win any games...
Ensnaring bridge block my creature... Vortex kill me slowly and stop my
Life gain... I just don't know what to do.

I've try the rack and ratchet bomb but that's to slow...
When i destroy a bridge another come into play very fast..

My deck list is very similar to the classic one with liliana and
Sensei divining top in addition...

If someone have any suggestions that would be realy appreciate.

Thank you! Sorry again for the english mistakes!

Well, usually is this case you try to make them discard it before it hits play, but it is very hard to deal with indeed when it hits play

Also, do you happen to play in montreal?

[MoxBropal]

Nice to have you in The Gate forum!

Mono red with Ensnaring Bridge and Sulfurix Vortex... Was it a Burn deck, post sideboard?

We pretty much get hosed by artifacts and enchantments. Your best bet is to flush them out with Cabal Therapy. Surgical Extraction in the sideboard is nice too. Once the pesky artifacts/enchantments are out of his deck, we have a good matchup against burn in my opinion.

Can you post your list with sideboard?

[loic]

Mono red with Ensnaring Bridge and Sulfurix Vortex... Was it a Burn deck, post sideboard?

We pretty much get hosed by artifacts and enchantments. Your best bet is to flush them out with Cabal Therapy. Surgical Extraction in the sideboard is nice too. Once the pesky artifacts/enchantments are out of his deck, we have a good matchup against burn in my opinion.

Can you post your list with sideboard?

Yes it's a mono red burn deck with bridge and vortex in the main deck.
I have no problem with dredge, death& taxe, merfolk... Etc
But when i play against this burn i just can't win...

I will post the list very soon...

Just tought about gate to phyrexia?

What do you think about it?

[loic]

Well, usually is this case you try to make them discard it before it hits play, but it is very hard to deal with indeed when it hits play

Also, do you happen to play in montreal?

Imma try more discard but i'm not sure it will be enough to defeat it.

I actualy never played in montreal but maybe in a near future... I'm from quebec city!

[loic]

Here's my deck

Creatures (14):
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk

Planeswalkers (2):
2 Liliana of the Veil

Spells(24):
3 Bitterblossom
3 Cabal Therapy
3 hymn to tourach
4 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 duress
3 go for the throat
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Land(20)
16 swamp
4 wasteland

SB
4x fairy macabre
2x extirpate
2x soul spike
2x spinning darkness
2x deathmark
3x ratchet bomb

[Hardcore]

Liliana's Ulitmate can work. If your opponent must chose to keep eihter the bridge, or the lands, it is good for you.

There are other options:
One is to accept that there is one particular deck that is a bad match up for you.
This let you avoid making any changes to your deck.

second, try another win condition. If the opponent run bridges then go play the rack and shrieking affliction. This turn his sideboard against him. You could also, if you manage to recuced his life by attacking with creatures before the bridge is played, use a non-creature finish spel like corrupt, drain life, kaervek's spite. Or Soulspike. Since you allready play two Soulspike adding two more to the sideboard is the easiest solution.

[whineyface]

Hi guys! Long time lurker, first time poster.

I have been playing The Gate since June this year, and over time building up the parts. It's been pretty consistently good for me, with many 2nd and 3rd place finishes, and recently I came 1st in a 31 player tournament at my LGS (we get 30+ players for weekly Legacy these days, it is great!) I think my record is approximately 65 wins to 30 losses in terms of games played. Here is my current list:

19 Swamp
2 Wasteland

4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Dark Confidant
2 Geralf's Messenger
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Abyssal Persecutor

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
2 Darkblast

3 Bitterblossom
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Umezawa's Jitte

SIDEBOARD
3 Dystopia
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spinning Darkness
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Powder Keg
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

I think my changes are going to be;

-2 Swamp
-2 Deathrite Shaman
-2 Geralf's Messenger

+2 Wasteland
+1 Dark Confidant
+3 Faerie Macabre (I don't really know about this, as I love Messengers and they are just so strong, I have won so many games off sacrificing one to a Cabal Therapy after attacking, but the 3 coloured mana makes me uneasy with 4 colourless sources that weren't there when I ran 4 messengers. Flying seems good though.)

I need to fix up the sideboard, too. Relic of Progenitus is useless, I'd much prefer Tormod's Crypt than anything. I don't like Leyline as it is too easily removed, and not hitting one in your opening hand is a bitch with Dark Confidant. I think the Faerie is perfect as it hits the situational stuff to fuck with Graveyard-based combo, which my meta is full of lately for some reason - a ton of 4 Horsemen, Breakfast, Dredge and Doomsday decks)

What do you guys think? I have some things in there that would seem a bit weird, but it runs so smoothly in this version I don't want to fiddle with it too much.

[MoxBropal]

Nice list. I'm guessing the mainboard Darkblast is for your metagame?

You're playing some cards I've been considering sideboarding for a long time:

Spinning Darkness
Powder Keg
Phyrexian Metamorph

What matchups are they best against?

Also, I've tried Faerie Macabres mainboard. They do a ton of work in the right meta. Besides the obvious access to graveyard hate in game 1, you can remove Snapcaster targets, Lingering Souls, slow down Sword of L&S triggers...I've even used them to exile Hellspark Elementals. I think it depends on your meta. I've noticed they can give you a fighting chance against Lands in game 1 as well.

[xdavisx]

what's the verdict on deathrite shaman? is cutting innocent blood worth it?

[Michael Keller]

what's the verdict on deathrite shaman? is cutting innocent blood worth it?

Those cards are functionally different slots. You should not be cutting Innocent Blood at all, let alone for a creature that does little to nothing in a mono-black deck. Shaman is better in BUG and Rock variants because he fixes mana and cleans out graveyards, but we aren't running green here so it really isn't all that good here.

[xdavisx]

Those cards are functionally different slots. You should not be cutting Innocent Blood at all, let alone for a creature that does little to nothing in a mono-black deck. Shaman is better in BUG and Rock variants because he fixes mana and cleans out graveyards, but we aren't running green here so it really isn't all that good here.

thanks, exactly what i wanted to hear/know. it's been awhile since i've played this deck. how's it match up against miracles?
are bitterblossom and discard enough?

[Michael Keller]

thanks, exactly what i wanted to hear/know. it's been awhile since i've played this deck. how's it match up against miracles?
are bitterblossom and discard enough?

Miracles can be annoying. If an opponent doesn't have a Top on the table, that gives you a chance to cripple their hand and just go to town. Aside from that Bitterblossom is a good card against them and Jitte creates good situations for you with your dudes.

Game one is a little tougher due to their lack of threats cards like Blood and Gatekeeper aren't really good against. However, if you have Hymns in the main or board games two and three in addition to something like Null Rod or Pithing Needle you can stall them enough and relegate their Tops as being useless - which is exactly what you want.

Overall not a great match up, but certainly winnable.

[MGB]

Miracles can be annoying. If an opponent doesn't have a Top on the table, that gives you a chance to cripple their hand and just go to town. Aside from that Bitterblossom is a good card against them and Jitte creates good situations for you with your dudes.

Game one is a little tougher due to their lack of threats cards like Blood and Gatekeeper aren't really good against. However, if you have Hymns in the main or board games two and three in addition to something like Null Rod or Pithing Needle you can stall them enough and relegate their Tops as being useless - which is exactly what you want.

Overall not a great match up, but certainly winnable.

To consistently beat (or even compete with) Miracles, 3-4 Pithing Needle are absolutely mandatory in the sideboard.

Null Rod can work too, but Needle can stop Jace / Stoneforge Mystic / other planeswalkers in addition to just stopping Top.

[MGB]

Those cards are functionally different slots. You should not be cutting Innocent Blood at all, let alone for a creature that does little to nothing in a mono-black deck. Shaman is better in BUG and Rock variants because he fixes mana and cleans out graveyards, but we aren't running green here so it really isn't all that good here.

Shaman is capable of contributing quite a bit to this deck, actually.

Basically speaking, from the perspective of this deck, it is a black Llanowar Elf (giving you mana acceleration) with the ability to finish games with a ping ability that evades opponent's protection-from-damage effects, Moat/Ensnaring Bridge effects, and even protection-from-targeting effects.

Its first ability allows the Gate pilot to have a maindeck answer to Life from the Loam / Crucible of Worlds type of effects. In addition, its second ability (exile target instant/sorcery) allows the Gate pilot to have another maindeck answer to Snapcaster Mage.

[Michael Keller]

Shaman is capable of contributing quite a bit to this deck, actually.

Basically speaking, from the perspective of this deck, it is a black Llanowar Elf (giving you mana acceleration) with the ability to finish games with a ping ability that evades opponent's protection-from-damage effects, Moat/Ensnaring Bridge effects, and even protection-from-targeting effects.

Its first ability allows the Gate pilot to have a maindeck answer to Life from the Loam / Crucible of Worlds type of effects. In addition, its second ability (exile target instant/sorcery) allows the Gate pilot to have another maindeck answer to Snapcaster Mage.

Right, but at one mana you're not really getting any value from the card in a deck that is largely predicated on gaining incremental (and virtual) card advantage - thus becoming more potent over the course of a game. In this deck it's really just a vanilla 1/2 for one mana.

It is highly unlikely the deck will have any lands in its graveyard throughout the course of a game. Its green mana ability is obviously moot. Additionally, if you're spending mana early in the game exiling instants and sorceries, you're really just durdling. You want to be more proactive with specialized and legitimate threats like Nighthawk and Persecutor. The deck doesn't run Dark Ritual for a reason, which is to say acceleration is unnecessary. For one mana I'd rather spend my turn playing a discard spell and setting up the following turn with a Dark Confidant or Bitterblossom. Shaman doesn't really do anything attractive here except exile cards from graveyards, and if we were to attempt to maximize its utility we might as well play it in a multicolored deck like BUG or The Rock where its acceleration and mana fixing is more important. It just doesn't fit the overall theme of the deck.

Snapcaster Mage is one of the least worrisome cards you can run into. You're running enough removal and discard that it will force an opponent to drop it before turn three when they can actually use its triggered ability in the face of an early discard spell. That or hiding it with Brainstorm, which is fine.

Faerie Macabre is really the ideal choice when it comes to exiling cards from graveyards, providing evasion with flying and subsequently becoming even more viable with Jitte. Loam and Crucible variants have typically been a non-issue against this archetype if the pilot runs Faerie Macabre, which is in all honesty a more versatile choice.

Null Rod and Needle are interchangeable depending on your meta, but I prefer a split of either because of Null Rod's application in some fringe match ups like Affinity and MUD.

That or I could be senile; I haven't played this deck in two years.

[MGB]

Right, but at one mana you're not really getting any value from the card in a deck that is largely predicated on gaining incremental (and virtual) card advantage - thus becoming more potent over the course of a game. In this deck it's really just a vanilla 1/2 for one mana.

It is highly unlikely the deck will have any lands in its graveyard throughout the course of a game. Its green mana ability is obviously moot. Additionally, if you're spending mana early in the game exiling instants and sorceries, you're really just durdling. You want to be more proactive with specialized and legitimate threats like Nighthawk and Persecutor. The deck doesn't run Dark Ritual for a reason, which is to say acceleration is unnecessary. For one mana I'd rather spend my turn playing a discard spell and setting up the following turn with a Dark Confidant or Bitterblossom. Shaman doesn't really do anything attractive here except exile cards from graveyards, and if we were to attempt to maximize its utility we might as well play it in a multicolored deck like BUG or The Rock where its acceleration and mana fixing is more important. It just doesn't fit the overall theme of the deck.


- If this deck's goal is to generate a steady stream of incremental card advantage, I might question how Nighthawk or Persecutor fit this philosophy. Obviously, you play those cards because of their abilities to further the core strategy of the deck: to attack the opponent, and additionally, in the case of the Nighthawk, to fuel the Blossoms and Confidants or to trade (via deathtouch) 1-for-1 with a larger creature. There is no card advantage to be gained with either the Nighthawk or the Persecutor, but they are nevertheless crucial cards in this deck: Nighthawk as an extremely versatile enabler and attacker, and Persecutor as simply the most efficient large-bodied win condition this deck employs. Similarly, the Shaman doesn't necessarily gain outright card advantage, but his various abilities can fuel the core objectives of this deck in an efficient and versatile manner, just like the Nighthawk. It pings for 2 life loss just as a Nighthawk attacks for 2 damage (which in many ways is better than attacking for 2 damage because it is unblockable life loss that cannot be stopped by protection-from effects or Moat/Ensnaring Bridge effects); it generates mana which enables you to accelerate the deployment of your mana curve; its ping ability has the side benefit of neutering graveyard recursion effects; and finally, its life-gain ability can become accessible when multiple Shamans are in play, and becomes as relevant as the Nighthawk's life-gain ability in the same exact ways.

- When playtesting Shaman in the mono-black shell, I've never found a lack of targets (for any of its abilities) in graveyards to ever be a problem. Maybe that's partly because I play Darkblast in the main deck, but it's probably also due to the absolute ubiquity of fetchlands in the format along with the four Wastelands that the deck itself plays.

- The green mana ability is not completely moot; if you can manage to stick two or more Shamans, you can use one's mana ability to power the life-gaining ability of the other. Not super-common, but definitely possible, and certainly relevant in a deck that often finds itself gasping for spare life to recoup the deficits generated by its Blossoms and Confidants.

- If you're spending mana early to exile sorceries or instants, you're either doing it a) in response to Snapcaster-like abilities that target graveyard cards, or b) at the end of turn to ping for 2 life just as you would attack with a 2/x creature, except that you're doing it with no regard for blockers. Either way, you are probably keeping Shaman untapped until your opponent's EOT step (or whenever he casts a Snapcaster-like spell) and using extra mana. If you *don't* have unused mana open early on, then you are probably using his mana-generation ability instead. But there are situations where this deck has free mana open early in the game (think land flood or holding back removal); it doesn't always have stuff to cast every single turn, although more often than not it does.

- I hear you about wanting to play discard on your first turn. That is usually the ideal line of play with this type of deck. However, I don't think that it's feasible or even desirable to play more than, say, 6-7 one mana discard spells in any non-combo deck, and then that leaves you with only a handful of options at that mana slot if you want to flex your mana curve further into the shallow end of the bell curve. Shaman is as good of a card as any to fill that 1cc slot, in my opinion. In addition, often times, targeted discard is just as effective on turn 2 as it is on turn 1 in Legacy. Many decks are unimaginative with their turn 1 play in this format: Noble Heirarch, Mother of Runes, AEther Vial, etc.

- I don't agree with a blanket statement such as "acceleration is unnecessary". Why wouldn't you like to play, say, a Hymn *and* an Inquisition on turn 2, or a Nighthawk on turn 2 instead of turn 3? Every deck can benefit from acceleration, and especially decks that can be classified as "aggro" decks, which this certainly is, even if it features quite a few control elements.



Snapcaster Mage is one of the least worrisome cards you can run into. You're running enough removal and discard that it will force an opponent to drop it before turn three when they can actually use its triggered ability in the face of an early discard spell. That or hiding it with Brainstorm, which is fine.


Have you played against any of the UW control/aggro-control decks that play tons of 1cc spells - especially removal spells such as StP - and then recur them incessantly with Snapcaster Mages? That avalanche of card advantage this generates for them can often bury this deck. When your opponent can recycle cheap targeted removal several times over the course of a game, your army of creature-based threats loses its potency in a hurry. You certainly can't depend on discard to flush out a Snapcaster - and a topdecked Snapcaster is as devastating a topdeck as anything in the game.



Faerie Macabre is really the ideal choice when it comes to exiling cards from graveyards, providing evasion with flying and subsequently becoming even more viable with Jitte. Loam and Crucible variants have typically been a non-issue against this archetype if the pilot runs Faerie Macabre, which is in all honesty a more versatile choice.


I've never liked Faerie Macabre because it is one of those Charm-like cards that does two or more things decently, but does neither very well, and never does more than one of those things in the same game. You can either discard it from your hand to neuter some graveyard-bound card - which basically causes you to lose card advantage because you are losing a card from your hand to target something in a graveyard that your opponent has already played (and extracted utility from) - or you can play it as a 2/3 flier with no additional special abilities for three mana - a mediocre creature by anyone's standards.

And of course, if your opponent doesn't play any truly relevant graveyard recursion, you are basically playing a three mana 2/3 flier and nothing more. And if your opponent *is* playing some kind of graveyard recursion that you suspect will emerge at some later point during the game, you might be forced to sandbag that Macabre in your hand for a few turns when, instead, you desperately need to be attacking your opponent to lower his life total before he stabilizes his board.

It's always mediocre. It's either a weak graveyard-hate effect, or it's a weak creature. Now, if it were a 2/3 flier that, say, had flash and could target a card in the graveyard, then it would obviously be amazing. But it's not. It has no further utility beyond whatever singular mode you have chosen in that particular game: a weak graveyard-hate effect or an weak (over-costed) creature. The reason that Faerie Macabre is a kind of a bad creature is the same reason that something like Dromar's Charm is an enticing, but ultimately bad, tool for UWB control decks.

Compare that to something like Deathrite Shaman. This particular creature's graveyard-hosing ability can be played in the same game that Shaman provided you with early mana acceleration and later delivered the victory by forcing the opponent to lose, say, 6 life over the course of three turns at the end of the game after your other creatures were killed in the battlefield or fell to spot removal.

Now *that's* versatility. You're doing multiple things with one creature in the same game: disrupting your opponent's graveyard recursion, accelerating an early Nighthawk/Persecutor/Jitte, and finishing off the game with unblockable, unprotectable life loss.



Null Rod and Needle are interchangeable depending on your meta, but I prefer a split of either because of Null Rod's application in some fringe match ups like Affinity and MUD.

That or I could be senile; I haven't played this deck in two years.

Null Rod is definitely better against Affinity and MUD. But I feel that Jaces and Stoneforge Mystics are more prevalant right now than Frogmites or Metalworkers in any given Legacy metagame, so I'd probably choose the card that gave me more options vs. those particular bugaboos.

[whineyface]

Nice list. I'm guessing the mainboard Darkblast is for your metagame?

You're playing some cards I've been considering sideboarding for a long time:

Spinning Darkness
Powder Keg
Phyrexian Metamorph

What matchups are they best against?

Also, I've tried Faerie Macabres mainboard. They do a ton of work in the right meta. Besides the obvious access to graveyard hate in game 1, you can remove Snapcaster targets, Lingering Souls, slow down Sword of L&S triggers...I've even used them to exile Hellspark Elementals. I think it depends on your meta. I've noticed they can give you a fighting chance against Lands in game 1 as well.

Powder Keg is basically to pop for zero against Cheerios, MUD, Affinity, and Tezzerator. Metamorph was a placeholder that's going to be taken out, probably for Big Game Hunter (it kills Emrakul, right?) and as much as I like Spinning Darkness (kills Delvers, Factories, Goblin Guides, Confidants, Mutavaults...) It's hard running it with Dark Confidant and not being terrified to flip it for six.

I am not sold on the Faerie mainboard, but right now I'm not sold on the Darkblasts anymore either.

[MoxBropal]

Actually Emrakul has protection from colored spells. For the sneak and show matchup, I'm currently testing Fleshbag Marauder.

[xdavisx]

this is the list i played last, which was sometime ago. is it outdated? miracles, omnitell and these new BUG variants weren't really a thing in the metagame at the time. i'm considering going to denver for the GP and this is one of the decks i'm considering.


4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Innocent Blood
3 Bitterblossom
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
11 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Vampire Hexmage
2 Perish
2 Massacre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Duress
2 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Plague

[Valech]

Actually Emrakul has protection from colored spells. For the sneak and show matchup, I'm currently testing Fleshbag Marauder.

It is true, that Emrakul is protected from colored spells.
Which is why Big Game Hunter indeed kills him.

[xdavisx]

i was watching cedric's stream today and in his last match of the night he came across the gate, playing deathrite shaman.

http://www.twitch.tv/ceddyp/b/345596871

starts around 3:52:00

[MoxBropal]

It is true, that Emrakul is protected from colored spells.
Which is why Big Game Hunter indeed kills him.

Derp. Of course. Forgot that the Hunter's triggered ability isn't a 'colored spell'. Definitely gonna try that in the board now.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I've always loved mono-black decks, so I finally decided to give the Gate a spin. I took this list to my local:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Phyrexian Obliterator

4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Go for the Throat
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of the Veil

3 Wasteland
19 Swamp

Sideboard
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Extirpate
3 Pithing Needle
2 Perish
2 Virtue's Ruin

I beat Affinity (2-1) and BUG/Team America (2-1), then drew into a split top four. I played out the would-be third round though (against Junk) and won 2-1. The single loss in each match generally had to do with mana screw/flood or mulliganning a bunch due to those same issues. Overall the deck performed very well, although I need to tweak the sideboard. Therapy was largely unnecessary as I already run a ton of discard. I wanted some alternate removal available in the board against Affinity (Go for the Throat is REALLY bad in that matchup...) but I'd prefer to avoid narrow hate like Null Rod. Doom Blade, Engineered Plague, or perhaps Ratchet Bomb would be options with more widespread applications. Phyrexian Obliterator was absolutely insane, and I was only screwed off casting it by Wasteland in one test game which I was going to lose regardless. It raced Knights of the Reliquary, trampled over hordes of Lingering Souls tokens, and rapidly put away games. Liliana of the Veil was the other MVP (she single-handedly dominated a game against BUG), and I think I want to add a third copy of her. I'm also questioning the necessity of three Wastelands, and may drop down to two. Thoughts?

[necrowil]

Not sure why Deathrite Shaman has not made it into the deck. Innocent Blood is good but Shaman is a strong card in that it usually speeds up a deck with no Dark Rituals in it.

Also, Big Game Hunter is obviously terrible vs decks running Emrakul. Some decks which run Cloudpost actually hard cast the card making your Hunter pretty useless.

Slightly less janky might be Keeper of the Dead or Royal Assassin or Stronghold Assassin. Keeper might be better in that if you run Deathrite Shaman or graveyard manipulation but it assumes you will live long enough to put two creatures in the graveyard. Unlike, Assassin which will still cause you to lose 6 permanents. But there are lots of cards like this such as Stronghold Assassin and the like.

Of the three, I think Stronghold Assassin may be the strongest choice. I put 2 in my board. And if you run Bitterblossom in your version, makes him all that more useful.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Not sure why Deathrite Shaman has not made it into the deck. Innocent Blood is good but Shaman is a strong card in that it usually speeds up a deck with no Dark Rituals in it.

Also, Big Game Hunter is obviously terrible vs decks running Emrakul. Some decks which run Cloudpost actually hard cast the card making your Hunter pretty useless.

Slightly less janky might be Keeper of the Dead or Royal Assassin or Stronghold Assassin. Keeper might be better in that if you run Deathrite Shaman or graveyard manipulation but it assumes you will live long enough to put two creatures in the graveyard. Unlike, Assassin which will still cause you to lose 6 permanents. But there are lots of cards like this such as Stronghold Assassin and the like.

Of the three, I think Stronghold Assassin may be the strongest choice. I put 2 in my board. And if you run Bitterblossom in your version, makes him all that more useful.

I would recommend Executioner's Capsule or Brittle Effigy if you want a removal spell that can deal with Emrakul. Heck, Seal of Doom would work.

[MoxBropal]

How about Fleshbag marauder or Angel of Despair for fighting Show and Tell?

[wcm8]

Shriekmaw takes care of Emrakul and is still a decent removal spell/late-game threat. Unfortunately it doesn't deal with Griselbrand so Fleshbag might be better if you want this slot just for SnT. That or straight-up Karakas.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Played at another local tournament, going 3-1 and making top four (prize was split). I played this list:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Phyrexian Obliterator

3 Innocent Blood
3 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Go for the Throat
4 Hymn to Tourach

2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Liliana of the Veil

3 Wasteland
19 Swamp

Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
4 Extirpate
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Virtue's Ruin
3 Engineered Plague

I beat Eureka/Show and Tell combo, U/W Stoneblade, and Imperial Painter while losing to Junk due to bad mulligan decisions. I did not board against Eureka as I won game one off a game loss (opponent was late). Game two I led with discard spells and closed the game with Liliana discard and Nighthawk beats. Liliana is absolutely insane in this matchup, as the deck needs at least two cards in hand to go off (and she can also edict away their big guys). We played another game for the hell of it and my discard didn't stop Eureka from resolving. However, I dropped Liliana off Eureka, and her plus Innocent Blood offed his two big dudes. Liliana was key in beating Stoneblade, as that deck is vulnerable to sustained discard, and edicting away Batterskull germs can gain you valuable time. Phyrexian Obliterator is also patently insane against hordes of spirits, snapcasters, etc. because blocking him is very difficult (I was able to race active Umezawa's Jitte game one due to the power of Obliterator). Game two I shut out Lingering Souls with Engineered Plague on Spirits, and nuked his Jitte with Ratchet Bomb before getting there with Lili + dudes. I got blown out against Junk due to keeping a greedy one-lander on the draw game one, and a triple-Wasteland hand game two (he opened with basics). Imperial Painter was a nail-biter of a match - Liliana owned him game one but I died turn 3 game two. Game three active Umezawa's Jitte (on an Obliterator lol) got me there following a Ratchet Bomb at three killing the Ensnaring Bridge that I forgot he boards. While Go for the Throat obviously doesn't kill Painter, it did find targets whenever I drew it (typically Jaya Ballard).

Over a couple of tournaments and some testing in between I have become convinced of a couple of things. First, the deck barely ever needs Wasteland (Maze of Ith is one of the only serious problems you will face). It also makes certain hands un-keepable due to our restrictive mana costs. I will be dropping to two for next week I think. Second, 22 lands is not enough - I have lost to mana screw repeatedly and have had to mulligan for lands too many times. I'm not sure if I will go to 61 cards to add another Swamp, or if I will find a card to cut (advice there would be appreciated as every card in the deck seems essential at this point). Virtue's Ruin has not been particularly good as Maverick is no longer a presence in my meta (although there are a lot of Junk decks, they typically run a mixture of creature colors). Lingering Souls is best answered with Plague or Bomb IMO, so the Virtue's Ruin slot might go to Damnation or maybe Infest (multiple Deathrite Shamans is a huge problem when you have VR stuck in your hand against Junk). I may try to work in a third Ratchet Bomb, as it is a very versatile answer to a lot of problems.

Every card in the last has been very good, although Innocent Blood and sometimes Gatekeeper get sided out a lot due to the prevalence of Lingering Souls. Liliana has been absolutely insane and I am convinced that three is the minimum number in this deck. Obliterator is also ridiculous and can completely stall any deck seeking to win through the combat step, just be careful not to run it into STP (usually your opponent will blow STP on Nighthawk or Bob though, plus you have discard).

[LeaPlath]

So I'm looking to build the Gate. I put it on hold for a few months while I sorted my standard deck out but now my mate has invited me to a legacy thingy at his place. Food. Beer. Magic. Can't really argue with that. He is allowing some proxies so I'm kinda going off what I have/can proxy quickly to get this ready.

S'not ideal but feedback loved

My list is currently:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Abyssal Persecutor

4 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Go for the Throat
4 Hymn to Tourach

2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Bitterblossom

2 Wasteland
20 Swamp

Sideboard
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Duress
3 Shrieking Affliction
2 Pithing Needle

6 Sideboard slots left

[dsck]

Nic Fit matchup is horrible :frown:

[LDX]

So I'm looking to build the Gate. I put it on hold for a few months while I sorted my standard deck out but now my mate has invited me to a legacy thingy at his place. Food. Beer. Magic. Can't really argue with that. He is allowing some proxies so I'm kinda going off what I have/can proxy quickly to get this ready.

S'not ideal but feedback loved

My list is currently:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Abyssal Persecutor

4 Innocent Blood
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Go for the Throat
4 Hymn to Tourach

2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Bitterblossom

2 Wasteland
20 Swamp

Sideboard
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Duress
3 Shrieking Affliction
2 Pithing Needle

6 Sideboard slots left

You miss GY Hate. 4 Extirpate right away, and I would cut 1 Innocent Blood and 1 Hymn (or 2 Liliana, I didn't see her do good in The Gate yet) for 2 Faerie Macabre MD, just to make sure. Your deck seems tuned for your preference which is fine, it's overall a great list. But you get beat by one card, Leyline of Sanctity. Grab some Dystopia in sideboard for that or Ratchet Bomb for more general use. Have you tried DRS yet? I didn't like it much but if you do it's fine.

-1 Innocent Blood
-1 Hymn to Tourach
(Or 2 Liliana)
+2 Faerie Macabre

SB:

+4 Extirpate
+2 Dystopia

[Admiral_Arzar]

You miss GY Hate. 4 Extirpate right away, and I would cut 1 Innocent Blood and 1 Hymn (or 2 Liliana, I didn't see her do good in The Gate yet) for 2 Faerie Macabre MD, just to make sure. Your deck seems tuned for your preference which is fine, it's overall a great list. But you get beat by one card, Leyline of Sanctity. Grab some Dystopia in sideboard for that or Ratchet Bomb for more general use. Have you tried DRS yet? I didn't like it much but if you do it's fine.

-1 Innocent Blood
-1 Hymn to Tourach
(Or 2 Liliana)
+2 Faerie Macabre

SB:

+4 Extirpate
+2 Dystopia

Agree on the sideboard suggestions. However, DO NOT CUT LILIANA, she's been arguably the best card in the deck in my experience so far. I wouldn't run Faerie Macabre at all, the card is pretty bad.

[LDX]

Agree on the sideboard suggestions. However, DO NOT CUT LILIANA, she's been arguably the best card in the deck in my experience so far. I wouldn't run Faerie Macabre at all, the card is pretty bad.

While I can accept that you had different experience with Liliana than myself, how can you even say Faerie Macabre is pretty bad? She is so far the only card I've seen able to save you from turn 1 Ionia. Uncounterspellable save from Ionia. Stifle? Ok, but how many decks run it?

Seriously this card is amazing and so versatile. I wonder what motivates your thoughts.

[Mr. Froggy]

My friend has The Gate built, and I think he's been liking Dark Ritual in his deck. I know the deck is all about incremental card-advantage, but Turn 1 Dark Ritual into IoK/Duress into Hymn to Tourach is almost game against a bunch of stuff. Also, he runs Phyrexian Arena instead of Bob (budget concerns), and landing an Arena t1 with Ritual is pretty awesome, especially since most decks don't run enchantment hate maindec (or none that I have seen as of yet.)

[Johanovich]

Also, he runs Phyrexian Arena instead of Bob (budget concerns), and landing an Arena t1 with Ritual is pretty awesome, especially since most decks don't run enchantment hate maindec (or none that I have seen as of yet.)

How about Abrupt Decay? Pretty much kills Phyrexian Arena. The main problems with arena is that it's garanteed damage and costs 1 more, where confidant doesn't do damage when he picks lands. The average damage with bob is 1.65 which isn't that much higher anyways.

[Zirath]

How about Abrupt Decay? Pretty much kills Phyrexian Arena. The main problems with arena is that it's garanteed damage and costs 1 more, where confidant doesn't do damage when he picks lands. The average damage with bob is 1.65 which isn't that much higher anyways.

1.65 damage a turn kills you in ~12 turns where as 1 damage always kills you in 20. In addition, Bob gives your opponent information about your draws. The guaranteed damage isn't an issue unless you have manipulation like Top. The only flaw of Arena is the extra mana.