[Deck] The Gate

[Evilpurplemonkey]

I guess it blocks Lilly too, so that makes it harder

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[Evilpurplemonkey]

I guess it blocks Lilly too, so that makes it harder

Sent from my SM-G975U using TapatalkWait, can we just play it in the main and ignore the deckbuilding restrictions?

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[Glass House]

Wait, can we just play it in the main and ignore the deckbuilding restrictions?


Yes :smile:

[Evilpurplemonkey]

Here's the real question then. Does lurrus make cabal therapy better than thoughtseize?

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[mulletsss]

Here's the real question then. Does lurrus make cabal therapy better than thoughtseize?

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If you're saying this because you're thinking about casting it from the graveyard, Lurrus affects only permanent cards, so it doesn't matter to those cards particularly.

[Evilpurplemonkey]

If you're saying this because you're thinking about casting it from the graveyard, Lurrus affects only permanent cards, so it doesn't matter to those cards particularly.N..no. cast cabal therapy, flash it back by sacrificing a creature, recast the creature with lurrus.

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[KobeBryan]

When and how do i select it as a companion. Im guessing this one would be in the sideboard and one in the maindeck

Im also guessing lands would be able to be cast since its a converted mana cost of 2

[Pittplayer]

When and how do i select it as a companion. Im guessing this one would be in the sideboard and one in the maindeck

Im also guessing lands would be able to be cast since its a converted mana cost of 2

You dont cast lands. And you cant have one in the main deck if it's your companion due to its restriction.

[sainttobias]

Lurrus just sounds like extra work to be honest. Bitterblossom and Bloodghast can give you a steady stream of creatures, combining it with Cabal Therapist just lets you tear your opponent's hand apart.

On another note, I almost wonder if playing up to 4x Faerie Macabre in the main could be worthwhile. It can help fight against super fast combo decks trying to abuse Lurrus. It's good for reanimator, Echo Of Aeons combo decks, Dredge, and Storm decks, so it seems alright.

[Evilpurplemonkey]

When and how do i select it as a companion. Im guessing this one would be in the sideboard and one in the maindeck

Im also guessing lands would be able to be cast since its a converted mana cost of 2You can't have it both maindeck and as companion, since it's a deck building restriction, so you have to meet the criteria when building the deck. gate plays enough 3 drops it's probably not worth trying to restructure to use as companion, which is why I was talking about playing them maindeck.



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[mulletsss]

N..no. cast cabal therapy, flash it back by sacrificing a creature, recast the creature with lurrus.

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Didn't see this route of play coming. Awesome!
Yes, it would indeed be a very resourceful play. Combined with Kitesail Freebooter (already on the field), you can take as much as 3 cards out of your opponents hand. Or even Gatekeeper of Malakir if you have enough mana.

[PirateKing]

Coming from Deadguy, it seems greedy and too open to opportunistic opponents to catch you with a free 2 for 1 by relying on Cabal Therapy to sacrifice otherwise useful creatures. Sure in Gate style deck Gatekeeper does his job and sacrificing him just lets him do his job again, but Lurrus will always have a target on him, more so than Dark Confidant or anything else, he's the must kill creature, so developing a strategy that assumes he will be in play is a heavy assumption.

I've made the argument in other threads, but Lurrus seems best suited for any fair(ish) grind type of plan, like Deadguy or Gate style decks. He'll recast once a turn, so you're cut of from nonsense infinite idealistic plays, LED is a net zero play, +2 storm with lots of risk at most. I anticipate he'll be king of the mid game to recover the trivial 1 for 1 trades suffered in the early game, punishing those hoping the single Fatal Push or Lightning Bolt against you will be enough to press their advantage. A turn 3 Lurrus sets up a very dangerous turn 4 for them.

All the fancy tricks of Companion and whatever only benefit you from +1 Lurrus to a zero maindeck count. Even without tricks, he's a fair body on his own, I expect his use to be in maindeck in multiples. Any one you can get to avoid the Bolt or Push will aid you on ways similar to Dreadhorde Arcanist in decks built for them. Once your opponent has no choice but to let you untap with Lurrus, you're in a good spot.

[Evilpurplemonkey]

Coming from Deadguy, it seems greedy and too open to opportunistic opponents to catch you with a free 2 for 1 by relying on Cabal Therapy to sacrifice otherwise useful creatures. Sure in Gate style deck Gatekeeper does his job and sacrificing him just lets him do his job again, but Lurrus will always have a target on him, more so than Dark Confidant or anything else, he's the must kill creature, so developing a strategy that assumes he will be in play is a heavy assumption.

I've made the argument in other threads, but Lurrus seems best suited for any fair(ish) grind type of plan, like Deadguy or Gate style decks. He'll recast once a turn, so you're cut of from nonsense infinite idealistic plays, LED is a net zero play, +2 storm with lots of risk at most. I anticipate he'll be king of the mid game to recover the trivial 1 for 1 trades suffered in the early game, punishing those hoping the single Fatal Push or Lightning Bolt against you will be enough to press their advantage. A turn 3 Lurrus sets up a very dangerous turn 4 for them.

All the fancy tricks of Companion and whatever only benefit you from +1 Lurrus to a zero maindeck count. Even without tricks, he's a fair body on his own, I expect his use to be in maindeck in multiples. Any one you can get to avoid the Bolt or Push will aid you on ways similar to Dreadhorde Arcanist in decks built for them. Once your opponent has no choice but to let you untap with Lurrus, you're in a good spot.So the list I'm trying to put together is with lurrus maindeck as a 3 of, partly so I have another in case of removal, partly because I still want to play Liliana. It would also include unearth to recur him. So there's a good chance he would be out when needed.

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[sainttobias]

I can see mainboard Lurrus working out, but I still don't think it actually does all too much. That aside, one card I really think people are sleeping on is Rankle, Master of Pranks. Every time he hits, he gives you BOTH of LotV's first two abilities at once. Backed by some recursive creatures (Bitterblossom and Bloodghast) he's super backbreaking. The Cabal Therapist interaction with the recursive threats is also noteworthy. Dark Ritual might be bad, but I've found that the speed it gives is necessary to compete with the more unfair decks floating around. T1 Thoughtseize won't always be enough to disrupt Show and Tell or Reanimator, but T1 Thoughtseize into Hymn is hard to recover from. Still I might be wrong, I'm still testing around on MTGO and tweaking the list. Anyways, here's what I've come up with.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2935749#paper

[KobeBryan]

Why not splash red to get some haste ball lightning type creatures to bum rush them more? Just a thought. It would be a more recurring problem than castin cabal therapy

[PirateKing]

Why not splash red to get some haste ball lightning type creatures to bum rush them more? Just a thought. It would be a more recurring problem than castin cabal therapy

Vexing Devil is probably still bad, but man, I'd be cool to see it work well

[Mr. Safety]

Why not splash red to get some haste ball lightning type creatures to bum rush them more? Just a thought. It would be a more recurring problem than castin cabal therapy

Lightning Skelemental comes to mind, it's a double discard along with 6/1 hasty/trample beats. The RR will be fairly challenging to cast him, though. Easier than Ball Lightning, but not by much. However, if you're committed to a workable red splash mana-base then Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger looks really strong.

[Evilpurplemonkey]

My dip of choice is green. Sideboard decay/choke and main board goyf. Synergizes well with regisaur/lilli filling the gy.

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[KobeBryan]

This guy tried to cheat me. he said with Lurrus out, all my cards are 2 mana cost and my lightning skelemental cannot be cast becaues its a 3 cmc.

I said where is it in the rule that says i cannot have a 3 cmc in my deck. It just says i can cast things that are 2 cmc from GY, which means its EVERYTHING.

[alec]

This guy tried to cheat me. he said with Lurrus out, all my cards are 2 mana cost and my lightning skelemental cannot be cast becaues its a 3 cmc.

I said where is it in the rule that says i cannot have a 3 cmc in my deck. It just says i can cast things that are 2 cmc from GY, which means its EVERYTHING.

Were you playing Lurrus as your companion? If so, your opponent was correct. You cannot play Lightning Skelemental and use Lurrus as a companion/you cannot cast him from your sideboard.

If Lurrus was in your maindeck, and not cast from your sideboard, you're correct: you can play Lightning Skelemental and Lurrus at once.

[Mr. Safety]

Companion is messed up, no doubt. In that case, I think Kroxa is a decent substitute (if a little less aggressive.)

[kwèk]

The Ride

1x Plague Engineer
4x Dark Confidant
4x Gifted Aetherborn
4x Rotting Regisaur
4x Murderous Rider // Swift End

2x Liliana, the Last Hope
3x Liliana of the Veil

3x Hymn To Tourach
4x Thoughtseize

4x Dark Ritual
4x Liliana's Triump

2x Umezawa's Jitte

2x Castle Locthwain
19x Swamp



Sideboard

1x Null Rod
1x Damping Sphere
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
1x Plaguecrafter
1x Ashiok, Dream Render
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Plague Engineer
4x Faerie Macabre





Just an idea... maybe it's time to stop living in the past.

[KobeBryan]

how do you guys feel about playing unearth, bloodghast, cabal therapy, village rites, and archfiend's vessel. Eliminate looks like a decent card since this deck can't answer planeswalkers.

[kwèk]

I took my list out for a sort of FNM-like event (4 games)

These were the results:

The Ride

1x Plague Engineer
4x Dark Confidant
4x Gifted Aetherborn
4x Rotting Regisaur
4x Murderous Rider // Swift End

2x Liliana, the Last Hope
3x Liliana of the Veil

3x Hymn To Tourach
4x Thoughtseize

4x Dark Ritual
4x Liliana's Triump

2x Umezawa's Jitte

3x Castle Locthwain
18x Swamp



Sideboard

1x Null Rod
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Damping Sphere
1x Gate to Phyrexia
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
1x Ashiok, Dream Render
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
3x Plague Engineer
4x Faerie Macabre



Results:

1-1 Draw vs Blue Artifacts (Urza + Echon of the Eons) - On the Draw
2-0 Win vs 4c Delver - On the Play
2-0 Win vs UG Infect - On the Draw
0-2 Loss vs BANT-Control - On the Draw




I'm pretty happy with the mainboard. Murderous Rider does kill planeswalkers (huge upside).
I think the sideboard needs something to totally wipe the graveyard. Faerie just doesn't cut it and CMC is also high for confidant. Maybe switch two of them too Tormods' crypts... because Uro, Titan of naturs' wrath... well, it's horrible. Maybe the one Ashiok just isn't fast enough... I think changing it to a second Chains of Mephistophles might work better.

Oh, and I pushed a Gate in the sideboard... for all you conservatives :tongue:

[Mr. Safety]

Ashiok is incredible, I would play up to 3 in your sideboard.

Cutting Wasteland: budget decision or metagame decision?

[Mr. Safety]

how do you guys feel about playing unearth, bloodghast, cabal therapy, village rites, and archfiend's vessel. Eliminate looks like a decent card since this deck can't answer planeswalkers.

Don't threaten me with a good time!!! Sounds sexy.

[kwèk]

Cutting Wasteland: budget decision or metagame decision?


I just want to have mana...
The Gate, doesn't have a lot of manasinks. Like, it used to play a withered wretch here and there in 2012. And sometimes someone plays a shade.
But in overall, "The Gate" doesn't have annything to do with it's surpluss mana.

Castle Lochtwain changes that. 4 mana draw a card when you are in top deck mode after discard spells and liliana of the veil... is pretty nice. You just need to kill Narset. Like if Narset is on 1, kill it unless you can kill your opponent. Because the castle can get you back into the game later on.

The Gate never was about mana restriction annyway. It's cute to wasteland, and it can deff give you an advantage. But a lot of the old builds also needed to go up to 3 and 4 to get more important stuff out. I know you run ritual... but even with ritual in this deck, you can still Loctwain for 2 lands, and play something with the lands you have left.

[Captain Hammer]

So many wonderful cards that are tailor made for The Gate in this year’s sets....

Agadeem’s Awakening
Nullpriest of Oblivion
Nighthawk Scavenger
Bloodchief’s Thirst
Eliminate
Murderous Rider

Nullpriest is an evasive 2 mana lifelinker early game that turns into a reanimate spell late game.

Nighthawk is a Goyf with lifelink and flying and deathtouch tacked on for just one extra mana. Might surpass goyf actually.

Dark Confidant is amazing with all of the above.

The creature base is now extremely efficient and grindy enough to create inevitability. We just need the right mix and a high enough concentration of discard and removal to function as a controllish deck.

[KobeBryan]

So many wonderful cards that are tailor made for The Gate in this year’s sets....

Agadeem’s Awakening
Nullpriest of Oblivion
Nighthawk Scavenger
Bloodchief’s Thirst
Eliminate
Murderous Rider

Nullpriest is an evasive 2 mana lifelinker early game that turns into a reanimate spell late game.

Nighthawk is a Goyf with lifelink and flying and deathtouch tacked on for just one extra mana. Might surpass goyf actually.

Dark Confidant is amazing with all of the above.

The creature base is now extremely efficient and grindy enough to create inevitability. We just need the right mix and a high enough concentration of discard and removal to function as a controllish deck.

The new nighthawk certainly surpasses goyf

[Captain Hammer]

Its not bolt proof like Goyf but thats why we play Thoughtseize

[KobeBryan]

Its not bolt proof like Goyf but thats why we play Thoughtseize

it dies to removal is never a good argument man.

[Mr. Safety]

Is Unearth an option? Once you have a bunch of ideal threats under 3 mana, Unearth seems like pure value. I'm *not* saying go deep, but 1-2 isn't hard to jam in, and at worst it's a re-draw.

Edit: Rotting Regisaur tricks sound good to me too...

[Captain Hammer]

Yeah, both Unearth and Reanimate seem amazing with Scavenger Nighthawk.

Nighthawk gains you a lot of life so the upside of being able to reanimate your opponents biggest creature after a turn 1 Thoughtseize seems worth the lifeloss.

Really depends on the local meta and how many Primeval Titans and Griselbrands you expect to face.

[BirdsOfParadise]

it dies to removal is never a good argument man.
Sarcasm?

"It dies to removal" is an often-derided argument because, in general, stuff does die to removal. But when you raise a specific A vs B comparison, every commonly encountered removal spell that hits A but not B is a point in favor of A.

If they print Goyf With Hexproof (or even just Goyf With Protection From StP). you're not gonna claim that Plain Goyf is just as good because it doesn't matter that it dies to removal.

It could be true that dying to Bolt isn't that big a deal, and that the pros outweigh the cons... but that would be a different statement.

[Mr. Safety]

Sarcasm?

"It dies to removal" is an often-derided argument because, in general, stuff does die to removal. But when you raise a specific A vs B comparison, every commonly encountered removal spell that hits A but not B is a point in favor of A.

If they print Goyf With Hexproof (or even just Goyf With Protection From StP). you're not gonna claim that Plain Goyf is just as good because it doesn't matter that it dies to removal.

It could be true that dying to Bolt isn't that big a deal, and that the pros outweigh the cons... but that would be a different statement.

You're shifting the goalposts. The comparison wasn't Goyf or Nighthawk vs. HexproofGoyf or HexproofNighthawk, it was just 'is this card better than Tarmogoyf at closing games in this deck.' By your argument we should splash green for Hexdrinker, Thrun the Last Troll, or True-Name Nemesis, because we *do* have comparable mana-cost creatures to Goyf/newNighthawk that are indeed hexproof.

It's really hard to argue 'dies to removal' in any competitive format. Everything dies to some sort of removal, even Emrakul and Progenitus, so you build with the format in mind. Tarmogoyf sees very little play right now, basically just in RUG Delver and even then not as a 4-of, and it's not because Tarmogoyf isn't a huge creature. It's because it doesn't have additional value. Look at Uro and Dreadhorde Arcanist, both of those add relevant value that a pure beatstick doesn't. NewNighthawk also adds relevant value: evasion, flies to block Marit Lage, deathtouch, and it could easily be a 4-5 power threat. Just one hit with this guy will swing games in big ways. Equip with Jitte? Fuhgedaboutit.

[BirdsOfParadise]

Alice: Let's compare Creature X to Creature Y.
Bob: OK. First off, Creature X has Boltproof and Creature Y does not.
Alice: You mentioned a removal spell, so your comment is invalid.

***

So, I don't know whether Goyf or Nighthawk is better in this deck or any other deck. I just think Alice is engaging in careless thinking in this example and being overly categorical, not to mention a bit rude to Bob. It's not that weird a situation to run into a Lightning Bolt. You will absolutely lose some games if you choose the threat that lacks Boltproof, just as you will lose other games if you choose the other threat.

[ronco]

Is the philosophy behind the deck similar to what it was in the primer/creation? Looks like it doesn't get much updates these days but I came from pox so i've got the entire deck, practically, in my pox binder so i could sleeve up a variant pretty quick.

It almost feels like it comes off as an agro pox deck, but without the pox.

[KobeBryan]

Is the philosophy behind the deck similar to what it was in the primer/creation? Looks like it doesn't get much updates these days but I came from pox so i've got the entire deck, practically, in my pox binder so i could sleeve up a variant pretty quick.

It almost feels like it comes off as an agro pox deck, but without the pox.

The original idea was to get ur fatty up in there, flying 6/6. 12 ways to get rid of it.

There are just simply better cards to play now.

[Mr. Safety]

I liken this deck to mono-black 'Jund', everything is either efficient disruption (Thoughtseize, Push), dangerous threats (Regisaur, Nighthawk Scavenger) or card advantage (Confidant, Hymn, Jitte, Rider, Engineer.) Roll that into a bulletproof mana-base and you have The Gate. The older cards are different, but it's the same plan. It used to be 'cute' by playing a 6/6 flying trampler for 4 that needed an Innocent Blood/Therapy/Gatekeeper to win the game to 'combo'. While a 4-mana threat isn't bad due to getting around Abrupt Decay, the format is just faster. Our threats need to be more efficient and our cards need to do more.

The old version was a blast to play because of the tricks; the newer cards are better but much more boring. I want my opponent at -7 life when I kick a Gatekeeper FTW.

[Captain Hammer]

So the consensus seems to be that Scavenger Nighthawk is a fantastic addition to the deck.

Which of the other cards below are also worth playing?

Agadeem’s Awakening
Nullpriest of Oblivion
Bloodchief’s Thirst
Eliminate
Murderous Rider

Is Gatekeeper still good enough?

[Captain Hammer]

Has anyone had any success with the Gate with the new cards...

Agadeem’s Awakening
Nullpriest of Oblivion
Bloodchief’s Thirst
Eliminate
Murderous Rider
Nighthawk Scavenger

or is the deck dead?

Hoping paper events start up again soon so I can take it to an FNM.

[Mr. Safety]

I want to have the cards available to play this deck, so I'll be grabbing those cards anyways, but I haven't had a chance to even goldfish it. I think it's a great option to have in your arsenal given a particular metagame.

[Reeplcheep]

Has anyone had any success with the Gate with the new cards...

Agadeem’s Awakening
Nullpriest of Oblivion
Bloodchief’s Thirst
Eliminate
Murderous Rider
Nighthawk Scavenger

or is the deck dead?

Hoping paper events start up again soon so I can take it to an FNM.

I don't play the deck because attacking with expensive creatures is not where I want to be in oko.fmt, but in my monoB curse stompy & pox both eliminate and murderous rider are great.

Scavenger & agadeems don't work well in stompy or pox because we don't have many creatures, but it could be great in the Gate.

An additional card that could be good for the deck is soul shatter; answers expensive pw & marit lage through veil.

[Evilpurplemonkey]

Notion thief is the new tutor hoser agent from the commander set.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201103/6dde801cb4f19f8c690ec99edace8fd1.jpg

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[Clark Kant]

Opposition Agent is incredible. Confidant and Hymn are as awesome as ever and black has gotten a ton of sweet new creatures and removal spells in recent sets.

I am wondering if a list along these lines could be made to work in Legacy...

4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Thoughtseize

2 Bloodchief’s Thirst

1 Fatal Push

1 Inquisition of Kozilek

1 Eliminate

1 Cling to Dust

1 Dark Ritual

1 Reanimate (or Unearth)


3 Liliana of the Veil

1 Liliana, the Last Hope


4 Dark Confidant

4 Opposition Agent

1 Nighthawk Scavenger

1 Nullpriest of Oblivion

1 Murderous Rider

1 Gatekeeper of Malakir

1 Gifted Aetherborn

1 Maralen of the Mornsong

1 Plague Engineer

1 Rotting Regisaur

1 Bitterblossom

0 Court of Ambition (or Jitte)


14 Swamp

4 Wasteland

2 Castle Lochwain

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Agadeem’s Awakening

1 Volrath’s Stronghold


Sideboard:

4 Leyline of the Void

3 Plague Engineer

3 Pithing Needle

2 Chains of Mephistopheles

2 Surgical Extraction

1 Cling to Dust

Would love to get input from the community on the list above.

Edit: Updated the list, cut the Court of Ambition for a Cling to Dust (better choice in this meta), and replaced a Dark Ritual with a swamp because this deck needed more stable mana sources. Feel good about these changes.

Edit 2: After a few dozen games on MTGO, Bitterblossom, Dark Confidant, Dark Ritual and Nighthawk Scavenger have all vastly exceeded expectations. I have now adopted playing playset of all four and cut a Swamp! On the same note, the Liliana planeswalkers havent been nearly as good as I hoped. Ive ended up cutting a few.

[KobeBryan]

Opposition Agent is incredible. Confidant and Hymn are as awesome as ever and black has gotten a ton of sweet new creatures and removal spells in recent sets.

I am wondering if a list along these lines could be made to work in Legacy...

4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Thoughtseize

2 Bloodchief’s Thirst

1 Fatal Push

1 Inquisition of Kozilek

1 Eliminate

1 Cling to Dust

1 Dark Ritual

1 Reanimate (or Unearth)


3 Liliana of the Veil

1 Liliana, the Last Hope


4 Dark Confidant

4 Opposition Agent

1 Nighthawk Scavenger

1 Nullpriest of Oblivion

1 Murderous Rider

1 Gatekeeper of Malakir

1 Gifted Aetherborn

1 Maralen of the Mornsong

1 Plague Engineer

1 Rotting Regisaur

1 Bitterblossom

0 Court of Ambition (or Jitte)


14 Swamp

4 Wasteland

2 Castle Lochwain

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Agadeem’s Awakening

1 Volrath’s Stronghold


Sideboard:

4 Leyline of the Void

3 Plague Engineer

3 Pithing Needle

2 Chains of Mephistopheles

2 Surgical Extraction

1 Cling to Dust

Would love to get input from the community on the list above.

Edit: Updated the list, cut the Court of Ambition for a Cling to Dust (better choice in this meta), and replaced a Dark Ritual with a swamp because this deck needed more stable mana sources. Feel good about these changes.

Edit 2: After a few dozen games on MTGO, Bitterblossom, Dark Confidant, Dark Ritual and Nighthawk Scavenger have all vastly exceeded expectations. I have now adopted playing playset of all four and cut a Swamp! On the same note, the Liliana planeswalkers havent been nearly as good as I hoped. Ive ended up cutting a few.

Whats the reason of all the 1 ofs?

[studderingdave]

I built The Gate as a pure binder pull for my room mate during my last Legacy event last week. He managed to win some matches having no reps with the deck and no real understanding of the Legacy scene.

This build is far from optimal but it serves the purpose well.

4 Bob
3 Regi
2 Nighthawk Scavenger
2 Aetherborn
3 Bitterblossom
4 Hymn
1 Jitte
1 Push
4 Lili
4 Dark Rit
2 Smallpox
3 Bloodchief's Thirst
1 Collective brutality
4 Thoughtseize
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Castle Locthwain
4 Vista
4 Wasteland
12 SC swamp

3 needle
2 plague engineer
2 feed the swarm
2 liliana's triumph
2 s extraction
2 gate to phyrexia
1 liliana the last hope
1 ravenous trap


gonna add a few things but keep the deck together as a backup. Opp agent is def going in. Agadeem's as well and maybe a few other things.