[Deck] Mono Black Control

[Tychoides]

I'm really surprised this hasn't been discussed yet, but I wanted to talk a bit about the mono black control deck that was piloted to an undefeated 7-0-2 record in the swiss at SCG Indy on 3/14. It lost in the T8, but I thought the deck had a pretty impressive showing considering it is completely off the radar.

Before going on, here is the deck and a video with the creator/pilot, Craig Wostratzky:
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/18971.html

And here is the decklist:

3 Nevinyrral's Disk

3 Gatekeeper Of Malakir
3 Nantuko Shade
2 Shriekmaw
3 Tombstalker
3 Vampire Nighthawk

3 Phyrexian Arena

4 Dark Ritual
4 Diabolic Edict

1 Chainer's Edict
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach

7 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Bojuka Bog
1 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
3 Chalice Of The Void
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline Of The Void
2 Extirpate
2 Chainer's Edict

In a lot of ways, it looks like an old school MBC decks with the inclusion of Phyrexian Arena for constant card advantage and the Disk to handle things black can't deal with on it's own. But at the same time it runs a lot of newer creatures like the Nighthawk and Gatekeeper that I don't see being used very much in Legacy. Pretty interesting combination.

I watched a lot of the live coverage of the event and saw this deck a few times and one of the cards that I thought was great was the Bojuka Bog. A lot of popular decks taking advantage of the graveyard right now and that is an uncounterable, instant way to deal with the yard without even losing a card (though you lose a little tempo).

What do you all think of the deck? Was it just a fluke deck that was well metagamed or is it something that can stick around?

[Tacosnape]

It's not a fluke. It's a weapon that can hang with all but one or two tier one decks in the format.

Our team's been testing MBC lists for months now due to how strong we thought it could be. This list is probably just flat out better than ours though. It's got a ton of outs, a great sideboard, and is very hard to disrupt. I think what I like most about it is Chalice in the sideboard, though. The deck's fairly compatible for dropping Chalice-1 in certain matchups without a lot of trouble, and I'd love to hear a report to know how well this helped.

[Tychoides]

How does everyone feel about the amount of creature removal he runs main deck? 3 Gatekeeper, 2 Shriekmaw, 4 Diabolic Edict and 1 Chainer's Edict seems like a bit of overkill, especially with the ones where the opponent gets to pick. Should there be more targeted removal instead? Or a little less removal and more threats?

[4eak]

Anyone else think is this is Mono Black Aggro-Control (rather than plain dedicated control)? It plays a ton of creatures, imho. Sure, Disk is traditionally a dedicated control card, but it is also one of the only answers to resolved artifacts and enchantments available to a mono black deck.

Cool deck though. The Bogs are pimp, the mana-curve was acceptable for Chalice (I'd almost maindeck that), and I was surprised to see only 3 Arena's (usually a card I run a full set when I do play them). I wonder if Jitte, Bitterblossom, and Confidant (despite 3 TS) were tested. And, I also wonder if the deck would benefit (nothing new of course) from splashing green.




peace,
4eak

[Tychoides]

I'm guessing he didn't run Bob because of Tombstalker, but I do agree that perhaps aggro-control is a better description. I just went with the name SCG used when posting the deck though. :)

[Seige07]

I'm the one who ran the deck last Sunday. To answer Tacosnape I was very happy with the Chalices. The two matches I brought them in for was Charbelcher and Zoo and in both matches, and I believe I'd have lost if the Chalice was anything else. Setting it to one against Zoo stops all their bolts and setting it to zero against Charbelcher shut off all their mox as well as LED. The main thing I want to add to the main board so far is a Volrath's Stronghold.

My matchups Sunday were:
Round 1 Charbelcher
Round 2 Aggro Loam
Round 3 Threshold
Round 4 Alluren
Round 5 Threshold
Round 6 Zoo
Round 7 U/W Control (Tezzeret/Thopter Combo)
ID Round 8 and 9 to make Top 8
I lost first round of the Top 8 to Merfolk. His deck drew a lot better than mine and I mana flooded both games.

I've tested with Bob/Top but I've found in Legacy, Bob doesn't stay alive long enough.

Adding jitte, bob, or blossom really changes the deck. I have that in another MBA deck list I've been working on. This control list is the one I've been testing with though so it's what I played.

[Clark Kant]

The list seems awesome. Here's my thoughts...

Disk seems unneccesary. You play tons of creature removal, and too many creatures to be playing sweepers. Discard should be enough to deal with problem artifacts/enchantments.

Which brings me to...

Thoughtseize > Duress is it nog, esp when you're playing Nighthawk.

Smother > Edict. Smother hits 95% of the creatures out there. Plus it's targeted, which is nice for when there's a creature you really want to take out since you're playing so much removal that isn't targeted.

The exception to Smother being better is if you're playing Abyssal Persecutor. The card seems like it could be a natural fit in this deck.

Also, with wastelands, you could instead play Smallpox and Pox to support them.

Here's a sample list...

4 Gatekeeper Of Malakir
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Tombstalker
2 Bloodghast

4 Smallpox
3 Pox
3 Sign in Blood/Phyrexian Arena

4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Sinkhole

8 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
3 Bojuka Bog
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
1 Phyrexian Tower

[K_Rot_T]

Disk seems unneccesary. You play tons of creature removal, and too many creatures to be playing sweepers. Discard should be enough to deal with problem artifacts/enchantments.


Why would you throw out disk? It's your only answer to Iona. If she hits it's GG in a split Second, with Disk you have atleast the chance of doing something. instead i would think about adding a Planeswalker (read: Liliana or Sorin), as they work so nice with the Disk.
BTW i don't understand why people say Bojuka Bog is slowing down the Deck. Instead of Reading "Land-Comes into play tapped" you should read
Bojuka Bog - B
Sorcery
Exile all cards from target player's graveyard.
(and ofcourse you have an extra Land next turn)

@Seige07: Did the masses of Graveyard hate (4 Cards Main, 6 in Side) worked out for you? Seems a little much for me, even tough that each of them has a bit of another purpose. And why 2 Urborg, when you're not playing Cabal Coffers? Wasteland+Urborg doesn't seem that great to me, that i would make me more vulnerable to opposing wastelands and the rare (but possible) event of the Legend Rule (and also giving my opponent acces to Black).

[Seige07]

The Urborg's probably are unneeded now. I've been slowly modifying this deck for years and as of a few months ago, it did still have 2 cabal coffers in it. One reason was I did leave them in was the lower swamp count (The number of swamps needs to be increased). If I ran out of swamps to fetch, Urborg turns my fetchland into a swamp. This has been relevant more than once. I think the correct move is to remove the two Urborgs and two of the fetch lands for two swamps and two Volrath's Stronghold. This is what I'll be testing next.

I was very happy having the amount of GY hate I did. I never really felt like the Bojuka Bog slowed me down and it mixed with tombstalker did a good job of keeping Goyf much smaller than normal. I think the set of leylines are a staple for anyone playing black and the extirpates can be brought in against some decks just to Duress/Hymn their key card and remove it from the game.

@Clark Kant - I've found that ever deck I prefer the thoughtseize against, I am siding it out game 2 anyway. Between fetchlands and Arena, the deck can do quite a bit of damage to itself. Then you get decks like Zoo that are already coming at you so fast, the extra two life really hurts in that matchup game 1.

With Reanimator making a comeback now that entomb is legal again, I think I'll stick with the edicts mainboard.

[Jon Stewart]

Most of these lists seem to be Mono Black Aggro Control rather than Mono Black Control.

I've been toying around with a really powerful list that I think far better meets the criteria of "Mono Black Control"


19 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra's Factory

2 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Pox

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Wrench Mind
2 Raven's Crime

4 Noetic Scales
4 Chimeric Idol
3 Phyrexian Totem


Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Baruka Bog
3 Powder Keg
3 Oppression
2 Wretched Banquet

I love Dark Ritual but hate it when I draw it in multiples. So I only play 2 and it works well at 2 I think. Wrench Mind and Noetic Scales are likewise very underrated imo. And yes, 2 Urborg is the correct number when you have so many ways to sacrifice or discard lands.

The focus is on hand control and creature control rather than land destruction because I found land destruction inconsistent. In the board, Oppression, Chalice and Bog give you great options against combo. Oppression is fantastic against cantrip based decks like Team America and Countertop. And Banquet and Keg really do a great job of bolstering your already strong aggro matchup. But I feel like there's something I forgetting in the sideboard. Do you have any suggestions for it?

It's really awesome in the current meta. It rapes decks like Zoo, Bant and Countertop. And I really can't think of many outright bad matchups for such a decklist except for 43 Land.dec. Maybe I should play some sideboard Ankh of Mishra for that matchup.

Do you have any suggestions for it? If you have any questions about the card choices, I think a quick run through MWS can answer them better than I could.

[ddt15]

I've put the deck together and its definetly good against alot of decks in the field and fun to play (and cheap! The 120$ metagame solution?). It really hoses creature and graveyard based strategies.

Why not skip fetchlands altogether since you're not playing Top? If you're only playing 4 then why open yourself up to the risk of Stifle?

Seige07, any chance we might get a primer with sb strategies etc? :)

[judg3090]

Hello, Im not Siege but I am his playtest partner. I can probably answer a few of the questions for you. As for the fetchlands we discussed them in length after the tournament and decided that he will be cutting 2 of them (from 6 to 4) and adding 1-2 Volrath's Strongholds, and/or 1 swamp. There primary purpose is not so much deck thinning as they are cards in the GY to help get Tombstalker in sooner. We have been and will be playing around with removing them altogether though as well.

As for sideboarding, Ill take a stab at it from the matchups i can remember. A lot of them depend a lot on how your opponents deck looks. I dont remember what was taken out for the matches atm but ill try to list them the best i can.

Belcher - +3 Chalice of the voids, +4 Engineered Plague
-4 Diabolic Edicts -1 Chainers -2 Something maybe disks

AggroLoam- +4 Leylines +2 Extirpates

Threshold +4 Engineered Plagues +2 Chainers, I think he put in Extirpates but i dont agree with that, something we discussed afterwards

Zoo +3 Chalice +4 Engineered Plague +2 Chainers

Merfolk - +4 Engineered Plague +2 Chainers

Thopter +4 Engineered Plague +2 Extirpate +4 Leyline

Alluren i know +4 E Plagues not sure about the rest

ANT +3 Chalice of the Void, Possibly +4 Eng Plague if you suspect Warrens coming in

Reanimator +4 Leyline +2 Extirpate +3 Chalice

Burn +3 Chalice

Lands +4 leyline +2 extirpate


Im sure he will log in and update my list.

[mikek]

Anybody see the list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31999) that earned the indignity of 9th place at Star City Games' most recent Legacy event (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/19057.html)?

Maindeck:
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gatekeeper Of Malakir
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker

Instants
4 Dark Ritual
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Smother

Legendary Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sorceries
4 Hymn To Tourach
1 Reanimate
3 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize

Basic Lands
6 Swamp

Lands
4 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Choke
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
1 Duress
2 Perish
2 Sadistic Sacrament


The changes seem to fall into two categories. First, there are the reflexive fixes, some of which have already been proposed in this deck.
1) Replace Phyrexian Arena with Dark Confident.
2) Replace Duress with Thoughtseize.
3) Get some targeted removal. In this case, throwing in Smother and knocking out some Diabolic Edicts. On the other hand, Shriekmaw is gone too.
4) Put in Jittes.

Second, there's the Tarmogoyf package: Bayous, Verdant Catacombs and the famous Lhurgoyf. This leaves a little negative synergy with the Tombstalkers, though they did take the Bog out, which limits the damage. (By they way, is anyone else tired of seeing Goyfs added to every build, from Merfolk to MBC?)

Overall, it's a more aggressive build: your Arena's are now 2/2s, your Disks are now equipment (Jittes) and you've now got that infamous green beatstick. Maybe it's a good direction to go in. And maybe individually some of the changes should be adopted, even if you lean control rather than aggro.

But switching in Goyf — while obviously unpleasant for people looking to this as a good budget list — seems to forgot one key effort of the original build: graveyard hate. Craig said in the Star City Games video that he faced 0/1 Goyfs at times. And I would think Bog doesn't just help against that $60 green guy. Reanimator, dredge, 43 lands and others can be hurt by the Bog in Game 1. The question is whether it does enough to warrant including an ETB land in what is already a medium speed deck.

Ironically, the one change proposed by the original designer doesn't hold a lot of synergy with the Bog and Tombstalker. Running a Volrath's Stronghold means you don't want to be targeting Gatekeeper, Shriekmaw or really any creature that you may want again, let alone yanking your own graveyard with Bog. Add that to list Chainer's Edict and you have a lot you'd rather not remove. I definitely think the benefits of VS are way too great to not include it in this deck. So maybe it's another point in the case against the Bog?

Now for one possible addition, which will probably seem a bit janky. Consider it food for thought, though admittedly it may be too underpowered to make the cut. The card? Bone Dancer. The first thing that struck me with this list when I first checked it out was how much removal it has. Between Gatekeepers, Shriekmaws and the two Edicts, there are 10 spells. Plus the Hymns. And if you choose, Thoughseizes. Against Reanimator this could get wicked. Otherwise it will probably be a Goyf ... which would be a twisted irony on a number of levels (the better you were doing on hating graveyards, the worse it would be). Obviously, this is better if you don't run the Bogs.

[slylie]

Anybody see the list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31999) that earned the indignity of 9th place at Star City Games' most recent Legacy event (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/19057.html)?

Maindeck:
Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gatekeeper Of Malakir
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker

Instants
4 Dark Ritual
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Smother

Legendary Artifacts
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sorceries
4 Hymn To Tourach
1 Reanimate
3 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize

Basic Lands
6 Swamp

Lands
4 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Choke
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
1 Duress
2 Perish
2 Sadistic Sacrament


The changes seem to fall into two categories. First, there are the reflexive fixes, some of which have already been proposed in this deck.
1) Replace Phyrexian Arena with Dark Confident.
2) Replace Duress with Thoughtseize.
3) Get some targeted removal. In this case, throwing in Smother and knocking out some Diabolic Edicts. On the other hand, Shriekmaw is gone too.
4) Put in Jittes.

Second, there's the Tarmogoyf package: Bayous, Verdant Catacombs and the famous Lhurgoyf. This leaves a little negative synergy with the Tombstalkers, though they did take the Bog out, which limits the damage. (By they way, is anyone else tired of seeing Goyfs added to every build, from Merfolk to MBC?)

Overall, it's a more aggressive build: your Arena's are now 2/2s, your Disks are now equipment (Jittes) and you've now got that infamous green beatstick. Maybe it's a good direction to go in. And maybe individually some of the changes should be adopted, even if you lean control rather than aggro.

But switching in Goyf — while obviously unpleasant for people looking to this as a good budget list — seems to forgot one key effort of the original build: graveyard hate. Craig said in the Star City Games video that he faced 0/1 Goyfs at times. And I would think Bog doesn't just help against that $60 green guy. Reanimator, dredge, 43 lands and others can be hurt by the Bog in Game 1. The question is whether it does enough to warrant including an ETB land in what is already a medium speed deck.

Ironically, the one change proposed by the original designer doesn't hold a lot of synergy with the Bog and Tombstalker. Running a Volrath's Stronghold means you don't want to be targeting Gatekeeper, Shriekmaw or really any creature that you may want again, let alone yanking your own graveyard with Bog. Add that to list Chainer's Edict and you have a lot you'd rather not remove. I definitely think the benefits of VS are way too great to not include it in this deck. So maybe it's another point in the case against the Bog?

Now for one possible addition, which will probably seem a bit janky. Consider it food for thought, though admittedly it may be too underpowered to make the cut. The card? Bone Dancer. The first thing that struck me with this list when I first checked it out was how much removal it has. Between Gatekeepers, Shriekmaws and the two Edicts, there are 10 spells. Plus the Hymns. And if you choose, Thoughseizes. Against Reanimator this could get wicked. Otherwise it will probably be a Goyf ... which would be a twisted irony on a number of levels (the better you were doing on hating graveyards, the worse it would be). Obviously, this is better if you don't run the Bogs.

Sorry to burst your bubble but thats Eva Green bro... an already well established deck that has been around for years and has a thread in the "established decks" forum.

[Greenpoe]

How about adding Reanimate? I think it's underrated outside of Reanimator. It goes well with all the creature removal (just reanimate something you like that you've killed) and helps fight Reanimator.

[makochman]

How about adding Reanimate? I think it's underrated outside of Reanimator. It goes well with all the creature removal (just reanimate something you like that you've killed) and helps fight Reanimator.

Reanimate is a strong card, but it doesn't seem to be a good option for this deck. Between Bojuka Bog emptying their graveyard and Tombstalker emptying yours, often there won't be any worthy Reanimate targets. Also Reanimating Tombstalker is too painful. All in all I'd play Animate Dead before Reanimate. Maybe if this deck were to play Abyssal Persecutor instead of Tombstalker.

[markbris]

@seige07

Have you considered movin the Chalices to the maindeck? It seems like it would improve your zoo and combo matchups. I'm just not sure how you would rearrange the deck to fit them.

[Wakkarr]

@seige07

Have you considered movin the Chalices to the maindeck? It seems like it would improve your zoo and combo matchups. I'm just not sure how you would rearrange the deck to fit them.

Chalice is weak in the deck if you are not playing it against decks with high numbers of 0 or 1 mana spells. It cuts off too many of your own threats/removal. This deck has as many 1-2 drops as most decks in the format, so it really cant take advantage of MD Chalice, whereas post board you are able to take out Duress/Ritual Vs Zoo to fully take advantage of a Chalice set at 1, and Chalice set at 0 lets you blank 10-12 cards in ANT without stopping any of your cards. Playing it MD would be a big metagame call, and would probably result in a more Black-Stax style of play.

[bakofried]

Has anyone done any testing with it?
Btw, I'd also like to know how you beat Belcher; was it G2 and G3, or something else?

[Antonius]

if you wanted to make the deck more synergistic with chalice, you'd probably have to drop the Rituals and 3 other cards for 2-3 more lands and Mox Diamonds. Then you could also run crucible and add wastelock to the tools you have at your disposal.

>>Further along this line of thought is to run 2-lands, perhaps Ancient Tomb, to support chalice. They'd work great with Urborg, though it would still put a damper on how often you can get BB by turn 2 for stuff like hymn or shade.

Also, I noticed that Shriekmaw was in the first list... why isn't Volrath's Stronghold in, too? Recurring Shriekmaw would solve any problems you had with any scrub aggro deck.

and If you wanted to splash green for anything in this deck, it would be Deed and possibly pulse, not goyf. Deed has crazy synergy with Tombstalker and most of the deck.

[bakofried]

Well, I think the consensus was that Chalice, though great, was strictly a SB card. Besides, what you just suggested sounds like black Stax, which I don't think is the direction the deck should take.
And he the designer did say he wanted to test 1-2 Strongholds.

[Antonius]

I was brainstorming more and came up with this list:

3 Maze of Ith
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Wasteland
1 Gargoyle Castle
3 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Bojuka Bog
7 Swamp

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Nevinyrral's Disk

4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Tombstalker

4 Phyrexian Arena

4 Diabolic Edict
2 Smother

1 Chainer's Edict
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Stupor

running more lands to support Mox Diamond's acceleration is made up for by having lands that are essentially spells (mazes) which can then be turned back into swamps via Urborg. One of the biggest benefits to running Chalice MD, IMO, is that once chalice for 1 stops the few removal spells that get rid Tombstalker. So you can clog the ground with maze, edict away the rest of your opponent's creatures, and fly over for the win.

[Wakkarr]

Nevinyrral's Disk seems bad in the above list. It blows up your own: Chalice, Crucible, Phyrexian Arena, Mox Diamond.

[Wyrath the Great]

I playtested against a deck almost exactly like the one the OP posted today. The only difference being the addition of the Hexmage+Depths combo. Seemed really hard to fight and completely trashed the deck I was testing (The Gate).

[Wakkarr]

Did the Hexmage/Depths combo come into play much? Was it just playing Depths over Wasteland/Swamps and Hexmage as a decent creature that just happens to occasionally make a 20/20, or was there some sort of tutoring package?

It seems like the gate would have some issue with this style of deck, as Faerie Macabre is very mediocre, and Innocent Blood is much harder to use effectivly.

[Oiolosse]

hexmage does hit planeswalkers, chalices and vials.

[Tacosnape]

If any of you thinks replacing Phyrexian Arena with Dark Confidant is a good move, you've lost your mind. Arena is what makes this deck viable. Confidant's easy as balls to remove. Most decks don't have many answers for Arena. And 1 life a turn versus several is a terrible scheme for a deck that's semi-slow to kill.

Secondly, one Volrath's Stronghold is kind of a beast in here. Given that most of the deck's threats double as removal spells, which is the true beauty of it, being able to recur removal or pressure whenever necessary is solid and sexy.

[mikek]

Sorry to burst your bubble but thats Eva Green bro... an already well established deck that has been around for years and has a thread in the "established decks" forum.

Woops. Guess I am still learning some of the decks in the format. I'd feel a bit more idiotic if Star City Games hadn't done the same (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=leg&start_date=2010-03-28&end_date=2010-03-28&event_type=STAL) thing (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=31999) in labeling the deck. Thanks for correcting us both. It does strike me that two such similar decks can be considered wholly different archtypes.

[slylie]

lol. I never noticed that. I actually think the origional deck this thread is based on was mislabeled as well. I've always concidered mono-black control a pure control deck with none to very few creatures. I didn't want to go against the flow but since you brought it up,

why is this deck called Mono Black control? it runs 14 creatures... Traditional MBC decks run very few creatures and win conditions. This deck is more of a "Eva Green sans Green". Maybe... Mono black Eva... or Eva black.. whatever.

Here is an early classic MBC list (standard 2002)

4x Duress
3x Innocent Blood
4x Chainer's Edict
4x Mutilate
3x Tainted Pact
2x Skeletal Scrying
4x Diabolic Tutor
1x Undead Gladiator
4x Corrupt
1x Mirari
1x Aladdin's Ring
1x Haunting Echoes
1x Riptide Replicator
2x Engineered Plague
1x Disrupting Scepter
3x Cabal Coffers
22x Swamps

Very few win conditions, but very powerful late game. ONE creature.

another 'newer' MBC deck (standard circa 2007)

4 Phyrexian Ironfoot
3 Skeletal Vampire
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Sudden Death
4 Tendrils Of Corruption
4 Coldsteel Heart
4 Consume Spirit
3 Damnation
2 Persecute
4 Stupor

Lands
14 Snow-covered Swamp
4 Desert
2 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
4 Scrying Sheets

A few more creatures, 7 to be exact.

And last my favorite build, by respected Legacy player Jack Elgin (circa 2005 legacy)

4 Diabolic Edict
3 Skeletal Scrying
4 Chainer's Edict
4 Consume Spirit
3 Decree of Pain
4 Duress
2 Haunting Echoes
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Staff of Domination
4 Cabal Coffers
22 Swamp

0 creatures. I love this build (though of course largely outdated) because it runs no creatures. So not only are you getting huge card advantage out of your hymns, scrying, edict, decree, but also all the removal your opponents are packing is completely useless.

[Stewieakadan]

Does anyone think that Mortician Beetle would be a house in this deck with all the edict effects in this deck?

[TooCloseToTheSun]

I really like this deck. I went 4-0 the other day at our local tournament, I even managed to beat U/B reanimator. Apparently Iona dies when it comes into play off of show and tell and you put a shriekmaw into play. :) I was just wondering how has volraths been and do you really think you need 2?

[Wakkarr]

I really like this deck. I went 4-0 the other day at our local tournament, I even managed to beat U/B reanimator. Apparently Iona dies when it comes into play off of show and tell and you put a shriekmaw into play. :) I was just wondering how has volraths been and do you really think you need 2?

What was your list? Matchups?

[TooCloseToTheSun]

What was your list? Matchups?

I played the list from Indy.

[R1]- Bye
[R2]- Storm Combo 2-0
[R3]- U/B Reanimator 2-1
[R4]- Wildfire 2-1 (bad draws game 1, should have pile shuffled just got lazy)

[ddt15]

I put this deck together also. Played some games vs friends. It really crushes Loam-based decks. It has some troubles vs Goblins though. You really need those plagues.

[dsck]

I top 8'd few weeks ago in 27 man tournament. Only differences to my list compared to scg indy were one less Stalker and no fetches + SB was pretty much what I had in my binder at the time :frown:

4 Engineered Plague
2 Extirpate
1 Chainer's Edict
2 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Pithing Needle
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Engineered Explosives

I will post my updated list at the bottom.

R1
UGW Fish? Had vials, Tarmos, Serra Avenger
2-0 win, nothing special here, G1 I destroyed his hand and ran him over with Stalker and Shade. G2 I got Arena down and it did not take long after that..

R2
ANT with b. wishes, doomsday
G1 I topdecked wastelands and took his mystical tutor with duress, he tried to go off with doomsday but messed up. G2 we both mulled to 5, I managed to get Nighthawk and Jailer down and beat him before he could build a good hand. 2-0 win.

R3
Pox 0-2 loss, I couldnt do much both games. Any tips?

R4
BR Goblins
G1 I win die roll again, I think I won in all previous games as well. I go T1 Ritual into Phyrexian Arena. My opponent laughs as he has no idea what im playing. He opens with T1 Lackey. I draw Bog/Shade and go to 19, I have only wastelands and bogs and shade/gatekeeper/duress in my hand and no removal. He hits with lackey and drops the doublestrike lackey and plays wasteland on my bog. I draw more gatekeepers and shades and we go to G2. I open with OK hand with Plague and he goes T1 Lackey, I draw ritual and put Plague into play, he frowns as he should have played Thoughtseize instead of Lackey. He cant do much and I drop Arena and draw into Hymns/Stalkers etc. We go G3, I have to mull to 4 and he opens with T1 Lackey again I think, I cant keep up with him as he wastes my bogs and I cant get enough mana for Disk. 1-2 loss

R5
BR Goblins, again. He wins the die roll. We both mull into oblivion and he goes T1 Vial. I dont remember nothing but that I won G1. G2 he gets the godhand and I scoop. G3 Well timed Plague kills his stuff/speed and I play Arena and draw few turns later another plague and he scoops.


Im planning on playing this list on next weekend:

3 Nevinyrral's Disk

3 Gatekeeper Of Malakir
3 Nantuko Shade
2 Shriekmaw
2 Tombstalker
1 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Vampire Nighthawk

3 Phyrexian Arena

4 Dark Ritual
4 Diabolic Edict

1 Chainer's Edict
4 Duress, maybe 2/2 split with Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn To Tourach

9 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bojuka Bog
2 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline Of The Void
2 Extirpate
2 Chainer's Edict
3 Executioner's Capsule

[dsck]

I played yesterday and it was complete disaster, 1st game vs Stax and he overran me with 2 Baneslayers (despite me having 10 Edict effects in the deck), him wastelanding my bogs just slow me down too much, this is basically true for most matchups. I couldnt get Gatekeepers active most of the time because I had 2 swamps and 1 wasteland or 1 bog in hand and my opponent had wasteland. G2 he got Gideon Jura on the table and Chalice @2, wow. I had grip full of Edicts/Gatekeepers and n. disk but it doesnt hit planeswalkers and I got it too late into the table (comes into play tapped) to sac it for attacking Gideon.

2nd game against ANT, he handled me easily g1. G2 I got lucky with T1 Sadistic Sacrament (had to play it in the sb instead of 2 leyline) and he tried to race me with 3 Confidants but I drew nighthawks and beat him down. G3 He comboed off easily (while I mulliganed to 5).

3rd game was against merfolk, he just overran me g1, wastelanded my bogs which cost me shitloads of time. G2 I got t1 ritual into Arena and overpowered him (despite him getting counters on jitte as I landed some plagues while killing his guys off with edict effects). G3 I mulliganed to 5 and he had 3rd time "vial, go" start. Then he landed turn 2 standstill and beat me easily.

4th game was vs reanimator, g1 im too slow and he gets Iona on black (I didnt draw any bogs this time lol.) G2 I mulligan into 5 without getting leyline or bog but I got sadistic sacrament and I managed to get 2 Iona and 1 7/9 flying shroud guy removed. I could have won if I had gotten 1 more black mana so I could wasteland his dryad arbor and edict his creature. Last turn I got him use his fow on shrekmaw so he had no counters in hand.

0-4, I made lots of misplays though. If any of you are planning to play this deck in future, some Needles for Planeswalkers might be good choice in the SB. Also Excecutioners Capsules are nice vs Reanimator (if you draw them.. :() Also remember taking wasteland into account and playing carefully with bogs to not get manascrewed. That is all, Im switching back to Dreadstill for now.

[joey223]

hello all!

so i see this deck thats running nev. disk in a top 8 list and im thinking maybe someone found a way to make the disk viable again.
so i put it together and play it at my local tourney.
i end up getting 1st place with it.

round 1 vs blue green tempo thresh:
i win 2 games straight.he only runs like 8 creatures and i have around 12-13 creature kill cards.
i think its just a bad matchup for tempo thresh.

1-0

round 2 vs red black goblins:
1st game he drops lackey and runs me over in about 5 turns.
2nd game i get an early plague and slow him down a lot.a little later a 2nd plague comes down and he scoops.
3rd game a replay of game 1

1-1

round 3 vs hypergenesis show and tell:
1st game dont remember much but i think i lost to emrakul's annihilator 6
2nd game i won because of sac effects removing his threats and shade doing lethal damage.
3rd game i won with a disk getting into play from hypergenesis allowing me to blow up everything and using the stronghold to recur a tombstalker

2-1

round 4 vs mono black pox:
i dont remember much but the games went long and end i up winning 2 straight.

top 4
me with mono black
tempo thresh
black pox
imperial painter

i get matched up with tempo thresh again.
1st game i win with sac effects and tombstalker.
2nd game i lose to his burn spells. ouch!
3rd game same as game 1

top 2
me and imperial painter
we end up chopping the1st and 2nd prizes but play it out for fun anyway.

i won gms 1 and 2 on sac effects and creature damage.

all in all it was a fun deck to play but still it remains to be seen if the deck has staying power.

please any and all questions or tips and ideas are welcomed!!

thanks.

[dahcmai]

I played this for a bit to try it out and found it had serious problems vs Goblins too. Plagues help, but people are running enough lords to go around that stuff now. They can just keep up too well. Tendrils is also a severe problem. Any combo player worth anything has no problem at all playing through discard unless your clock is fast and this deck doesn't exactly have that.

It does beat the crap out of anything resembling Thresh though. That new Bant deck almost has no chance at all which is a large plus considering all the fanfare it's getting.

It's kind of funny how much of a blowout certain decks are compared to how badly you get blown out by certain ones.

[Grollub]

Also Excecutioners Capsules are nice vs Reanimator (if you draw them.. :()

Capsule is black since it got a black mana symbol in cost.

[dahcmai]

Oh yeah, I'm going to say the words. Insert Tabernacle if you own one. It's amazing of course. You can easily pay for one or two dudes and it stops swarms well.

[dsck]

Capsule is black since it got a black mana symbol in cost.

The plan is to drop it turn 1, they have to get that shroud 7/11 flyer which you can handle easily with edicts etc.





It's kind of funny how much of a blowout certain decks are compared to how badly you get blown out by certain ones.

QFT.

[dahcmai]

lol, my shitty english sure shows in that quote.

[joey223]

your english is fine.

tabernacle????

expensive!! dont think i will be springing for that anytime soon! LOL.

but yea it would work great.

would a couple of maze of ith be totally out of the question?l

[Shawn]

I played this for a bit to try it out and found it had serious problems vs Goblins too. Plagues help, but people are running enough lords to go around that stuff now. They can just keep up too well.

This is a problem I've found, too. Ringleader is insane against this deck. One strategy I've been using is holding on to Hymns until the turn before they can play or Vial in Ringleader to try and snag it. It's helped, but I'm still not satisfied with the matchup. Plague is nice post-board, but for it to be effective you need to land one and have a fast clock, (Tombstalker) and hope they don't find an answer such as Grip or Stingscourger.

[joey223]

yep i lost to goblins again and everything else!
im thinking infest is an immediate answer and its 3 mana vs 4 with damnation.
nev disk is too slow vs gobbos.

any advice for that MU?

[wcm8]

How can this archetype be modified to better fight fast aggro? Zoo is a problem with all of the burn, and goblins have a very fast clock -- Engineered Plague doesn't seem to be as awesome of an answer as it used to be.

I agree with cutting some of the untargetted removal with targetted, although things like Progenitus can still be a problem.

The list I've been toying with:

23 lands:
9 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold

14 creatures:
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Tombstalker
3 Nantuko Shade
2 Shriekmaw

23 spells:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek (incredibly relevant in the early turns when discard is key)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Smother
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Sensei's Divining Top

SB:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Chainer's Edict
1 Umezawa's Jitte

This list has only a couple minor modifications/updates, but I still feel like there are things I would like to change about it. Essentially, I want to make it more capable of handling Zoo game 1. Should I cut the Dark Rituals and main deck the Chalices?

The SDTs have been somewhat useful in testing, but since I'm not running Bob or Counterbalance, they might not really be needed. More removal in those slots?

[makochman]

Is anybody else still testing this?

I've found that Nantuko Shade is probably the weakest of this deck's creature suite, but there is no suitable replacement. More vampires seems overkill, messes up the mana curve, and they are very slow as finishers. I also tried Bitterblossom, but it's terrible with the Disk. Ultimately, I've come to the sad conclusion that MBC needs a $50 4-cmc planeswalker that would act as both board control and win condition.

Bojuka Bog has been amazing, in spite of CIPT. The Disk, on the other hand, has been very problematic. Due to this and Nantuko Shade being so underwhelming, I am considering splashing green for Pernicious Deed and Tarmogoyf. Bojuka Bog would have to go, of course.

Also the sideboard benefits from Pithing Needle in lieu of Chalice.