GW Eureka Annihilator (A Post Rise of the Eldrazi deck)

[Kangaxx]

Well, I recently purchased a playset of Eureka at SCG.com when I caught a glimpse of the new creatures with the Annihilator mechanic. Annihilator seems to be the perfect mechanic for a Eureka deck to work the way it should (which basically just means winning). I've messed around with Eureka in the past and I feel that a G/W shell seems to be the strongest approach, for various reasons which I'll explain later. Here's the initial list.

// Lands
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [A] Savannah
2 [RAV] Temple Garden
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [BRB] Plains
5 [10E] Forest

// Creatures
3 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Pathrazer of Ulmalog
4 [10E] Windborn Muse
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
3 [M10] Baneslayer Angel

// Spells
4 [LG] Eureka
4 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
4 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
2 [EVG] Harmonize

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M10] Baneslayer Angel
SB: 3 [10E] Aura of Silence
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Try to ignore the "to get list" aspect of it if you can. :tongue:

What makes the GW build stronger than other color combinations boils down to various reasons.

#1) You have access to Orim's Chant, which allows you to resolve a Eureka successfully.

#2) You have access to Oblivion Ring, which I realized was very good with the Eureka strategy when I noticed how effective it was when I was on the opposite side of the table facing against it with a different Eureka deck.

#3) You have access to Windborn Muse which helps with the overall annihilator plan.

#4) You have access to Elvish Spirit Guide which not only helps you get an early Eureka down, but also helps against Daze.

Other things which make the deck cool.

#1) Baneslayer Angel can be hardcast in the deck, if necessary. It's always good to have the large majority of the cards in a Eureka deck hardcastable anyway.

#2) Most everything else can be hardcasted aside from 7 cards. This helps the deck's consistency since it isn't always good for a deck to rely on one card. And the other aspect of it is that you can cheat any cheap permanent into play given the situation.

#3) Kozilek, can maybe, I mean maybe, be hardcasted in the late game, maybe against Landstill or similiar archetypes. Which can be a plus.

The premise of the deck is basically mana denial in the form of Annihilator creatures, and prison effects, as well as beatdown. This deck is basically a prison-aggro deck and it's a blast to play. I'm getting it built in real life since I already have the hardest cards to find for the deck (Eureka).

I'm open to suggestions and comments are welcome. I'm just eager to hear what you think about this particular interaction of cards. Let me know what you guys think! :smile:

EDIT: I'll keep adding content to this OP whenever I get the chance! :)

Content Update 3/31/10:

I want to take the time to explain some additional card choices.

Chalice of the Void - I usually side these in versus decks that like to pack stuff like StP/PtE. Obvious card subs.

-4 Orim's Chant
+4 Chalice
-4 Noble Hierarch
+3 Trinisphere
+1 Baneslayer Angel

This turns the deck into basically an Angel Stompy variant with a combo finish, which I really like alot. Versus stuff like Zoo and combo this should be the way to go.

MD changes: I have to include Emrakul. The obvious changes look like this.
-2 Kozilek
-1 Pathrazer
+3 Emrakul

Kozilek is good but Emrakul is better. The main reason I cut Kozilek to one and kept 3 Pathrazer is basically becuase while I enjoy having Kozilek, Pathrazers are better in multiples. This rule is generally broken when applied to Emrakul, which is such a beast of a card, I couldn't see myself running less than 3 total.

[Sureshot]

I've been toying around the idea too when Kozilek and Pathrazer were spoiled. From the competitive side I realized Eureka is slow for the current meta. Splashing white for Chant protection is still ineffective against decks which pack both FoW + Daze.

Splashing black lets you run Cabal Therapy with or without Veteran Explorer which I believe is better since you actually can see your opponent's hand plus it's reusable. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker will also fit Oblivion Ring's slot better as a Eureka target.

Splashing blue for Mystical Tutor and Personal Tutor makes Eureka (or black disruption spells) easier to find.

The problem with this deck is that opponents still have a chance of reacting to your plan before you can start 'Annihilating' them. An all-in plan is scary because after cards like Wrath of God or Damnation wipe your board you have no more outs.

Sneak Attacking a creature with Annihilator looks more effective, of course with the help of mana acceleration like SSG, Seething Song or Lotus Petals it can be fast.

[rockout]

You didn't take the time to erase your get list so I don't think its worth my time to even look at your list.

[Pastorofmuppets]

why run Eureka over Hypergenesis?

[Kangaxx]

Splashing black lets you run Cabal Therapy with or without Veteran Explorer which I believe is better since you actually can see your opponent's hand plus it's reusable. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker will also fit Windborn Muses' slot better as a Eureka target.

Splashing blue for Mystical Tutor and Personal Tutor makes Eureka (or black disruption spells) easier to find.


I've toyed around with every Eureka type deck imaginable from ones packing Inkell Leviathan, Empyrial Archangel, Iona, a suit of 12 counters such as FoW, Daze and Spell Pierce, all the way to one abusing Nicol Bolas, LD effects, prison effects, Gerrard's Verdict and various discard effects. I'm fully aware of all the tech out there having to do with Eureka and there's basically nothing new to me. I also felt that x4 Mystical Tutor and x2 Eureka was sufficient in those builds and Personal Tutor deemed to be unnecessary but I digress.

The thing I like most about Windborn Muse in my build is the fact that you can hardcast it. My goal is to try to keep the non castables at a minimum and only enough to make Eureka worthwhile when necessary. This makes it alot more consistent than if you have 20 9-11 CC creatures that solely rely on Eureka itself.


why run Eureka over Hypergenesis?

Eureka is alot faster basically. You don't have to wait until the suspend counters have ran out, you don't have to fear Meddling Mage and the surprise factor makes it harder to counter when you're opponent doesn't have the opportunity to try to dig for an answer in a span of 3 turns. If mana burn was an issue, which it isn't anymore, I would probably say something along the lines that Eureka is better with Tombs, but since it isn't, that theory is thrown out the window since Hypergenesis is obviously better against Daze. But I feel Eureka is stronger regardless becuase of the fact that you can deny your opponent your true intentions instead of outright letting them know when you're going to play 'said' particular card.


You didn't take the time to erase your get list so I don't think its worth my time to even look at your list.

Sorry about that, consider it done. :wink:

[morgan_coke]

The reason to run Hypergenesis over Eureka is the Cacade mechanic. You run a bunch of 3cc cascade spells and then nothing else that costs two or less except for Hypergenesis. It's search and cost reduction in one package. I literally cannot think of a single reason to run Eureka over Hypergenesis/Cascade unless you were obsessed with running a ton of one drops or something.

[Kangaxx]

The reason to run Hypergenesis over Eureka is the Cacade mechanic. You run a bunch of 3cc cascade spells and then nothing else that costs two or less except for Hypergenesis. It's search and cost reduction in one package. I literally cannot think of a single reason to run Eureka over Hypergenesis/Cascade unless you were obsessed with running a ton of one drops or something.

Becuase the decks play differently? The version you've mentioned seems to warrant around 20 fat creatures with CC of 9 or higher. My deck comes at you with a different approach. A non-combo aggro deck with prison elements. Alot of stuff is also hardcastable and functional without Eureka effects. This allows me to win without hyperfocusing on the actual combo itself. I wouldn't say one deck is strictly better than the other, becuase each one presents the people different aspects of winning.

[Vacrix]

Why not go U/r with Eldarzi? Then you can run SnT and Sneak Attack, Force, and Brainstorm. Brainstorm is crucial in a deck like that where card quality is important. You pretty much win once it comes down, nuking your opponents board. Your build might be faster, but U/r will have better protection. Eureka just looks like a bad SnT.

[Aggro_zombies]

Another benefit of going blue is access to Kira, which makes your Eldrazi virtually unanswerable (short of a two-for-one) by the majority of decks in the format.

[Poron]

another Show and Tell drop, perhaps even better than Progenitus

[rockout]

Sorry about that, consider it done. :wink:

Thank and now I have looked at your decklist. Not sure if you knew this but you can eureka in retarded things like nicol bolas planeswalker and form of the dragon. I think a planeswalker is harder to get rid of then an creature. Just a thought.

[Pastorofmuppets]

if you make a version of this with SnT it needs to be called Show and TEldrazi.

[Sureshot]

why run Eureka over Hypergenesis?

Although the cascade spells both serve as search and cost reduction to play Hypergenesis, they also come in weird combination of colors. It'll be a pain fetching for the perfect pair of duals to cast them. Running rainbow lands can help in this department but still a single Blood Moon sabotages the plan entirely.

[Vacrix]

if you make a version of this with SnT it needs to be called Show and TEldrazi.

Kudos sir.

[dahcmai]

My question to this would be why run the Eldrazi when you have access to nicer drops like Iona, Akroma, Inkwell, or even Darksteel? The Eldrazi are cool and all, but they don't have much for evasion (aside from the 1) and don't protect themselves very well. I think I'd take a Petradon over these or Sundering Titan, at least those hamper the opponent right then and there.

[Poron]

and anyway a single StP wrecks all your plans...

[Sureshot]

why run the Eldrazi when you have access to nicer drops like Iona, Akroma, Inkwell, or even Darksteel?


and anyway a single StP wrecks all your plans...

I would love to run Eldrazis over those creatures simply because of the Annihilator mechanic, we're talking about a different deck now and not Reanimator. While it's true Eldrazis don't have evasion, the idea really is to drop at least two of them off Eureka. An unanswered Annihilator on turn 3-4 most likely spells game over for the other side of the board once it is able to attack.

Going back, the reason why I would prefer to use Sneak Attack is because it takes advantage of this mechanic immediately. Worst matchup would still be U/w/x Landstill obviously going against a barrage of counters and StPs is tough.

[jrsthethird]

Going back, the reason why I would prefer to use Sneak Attack is because it takes advantage of this mechanic immediately. Worst matchup would still be U/w/x Landstill obviously going against a barrage of counters and StPs is tough.

Hahaha imagine if they let you resolve Eureka and then dropped Humility + Elspeth.

[Kangaxx]

Hahaha imagine if they let you resolve Eureka and then dropped Humility + Elspeth.

Look at the MD as well as the SB. I play x4 Oblivion Ring which usually is played off of a Eureka. I found out about this tech when someone else played this against me when I was testing a different Eureka build. Aura of Silence is also another one of those other Eureka "response" cards that usually gets put into play as an answer to a threat put into play by your own Eureka. K. Grip in the board also deals with stuff like that.

At one point, I was running Indrik Stomphowler but then realized it was pretty useless against Humility.


Thank and now I have looked at your decklist. Not sure if you knew this but you can eureka in retarded things like nicol bolas planeswalker and form of the dragon. I think a planeswalker is harder to get rid of then an creature. Just a thought.

I actually have Bolas in a different Eureka deck but haven't put much thought about putting him into this one. My main concern is usually an annihilator creature will become much more effective alot quicker. With annihilator creatures, all you need to do is declare your attack phase to destroy 6-7 permanents. That's pretty gamebreaking... And I believe that may be considered a retort to alot of other comments from people in this thread having doubts about the creatures ran.

[Kangaxx]

Current deck changes at the moment have consisted of obvious stuff like:

-2 Kozilek
-1 Pathrazer
+3 Emrakul

Emrakul is legendary but I don't care, the card is too good to not include less than 3 copies.

But yeah, just figured I'd share the changes to anybody who's interested.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Current deck changes at the moment have consisted of obvious stuff like:

-2 Kozilek
-1 Pathrazer
+3 Emrakul

Emrakul is legendary but I don't care, the card is too good to not include less than 3 copies.

But yeah, just figured I'd share the changes to anybody who's interested.

Am I correct that you do not get the comes into play effect on the cards?

[Knuckles29]

Not CiP, it is a trigger upon casting the creature.

Just FYI, I have a GUb Eureka, and Merfolk rolls it. Got Boseju to combat counters... Wasteland-ed! Cascade - Hypergenesis is in worse shape vs Merfolk too. Better vs Zoo though, because of speed.

[kinda]

I would still run Boseiju...if they waste it they waste it...if they don't they can't stop eureka. Also stuff like vexing shusher can help get it into play...

[Kangaxx]

Just updated the deck name. I prefer for this particular archetype to be called "GW Eldrazi Eureka" which seems more universally generic as well as comprehensive.

Also. I've made room for x3 Terastodon which compliment the overall prison aspect of the deck in the form of Muses and Prisons. It should allow me to basically blow up three land (if not any nasty enchantments that come into play) off of Eureka to let me survive an extra turn complimenting the Ghostly Prisons and Windborn Muses.

Thoughts?

EDIT: The deck name change didn't work and isn't displayed superficially in the thread description. Can a Mod please change the title of this thread to, " G/W Eldrazi Eureka" please?

I'm also pretty sure that with the addition of the Terastodon, Humility will be destroyed? As far as I'm aware Humility will not affect a CITP ability. If I'm incorrect, it will always possess additional applications such as blowing up Moat, Runed Halo, etc.

[kinda]

How about something like this...you have 12 way to get your guys in plus 4 living wish-->gamekeeper.

Vs. Reanimator:

+'s
-doesn't use the graveyard
- has progenitus and emrakul
-krosan grip in the board
-wish board

-'s
-slower (which of course is very relevant)
-somewhat less resiliant

Though, overall the +'s are definately pretty strong. Another point is that even though reanimator runs more protection...this deck somewhat makes up for it via the density of must counter spells. Also unless I'm missing something this deck doesn't need to side in bounce.

4 ancient tomb
4 tropical island
4 Gemstone Mine
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
2 city of traitors

3 progenitus
3 iona
3 emrakul
1 sphinx of the steel win

4 living wish
4 Eureka
4 Show and Tell
4 Defense of the Heart
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will

SB:
1 Gamekeeper
1 City of Traitors
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle At Pendrall Vale
1 Iona
1 Emrakul
1 Terrastodon
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Forbidden Orchard
3 Krosan Grip

[Hopo]

I'm also pretty sure that with the addition of the Terastodon, Humility will be destroyed? As far as I'm aware Humility will not affect a CITP ability. If I'm incorrect, it will always possess additional applications such as blowing up Moat, Runed Halo, etc.

You have it wrong. Just remember that there is no creature-based solution to Humility and you should do fine.

[Kangaxx]

How about something like this...you have 12 way to get your guys in plus 4 living wish-->gamekeeper.

Vs. Reanimator:

+'s
-doesn't use the graveyard
- has progenitus and emrakul
-krosan grip in the board
-wish board

-'s
-slower (which of course is very relevant)
-somewhat less resiliant

Though, overall the +'s are definately pretty strong. Another point is that even though reanimator runs more protection...this deck somewhat makes up for it via the density of must counter spells. Also unless I'm missing something this deck doesn't need to side in bounce.

4 ancient tomb
4 tropical island
4 Gemstone Mine
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
2 city of traitors

3 progenitus
3 iona
3 emrakul
1 sphinx of the steel win

4 living wish
4 Eureka
4 Show and Tell
4 Defense of the Heart
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will

SB:
1 Gamekeeper
1 City of Traitors
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle At Pendrall Vale
1 Iona
1 Emrakul
1 Terrastodon
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Forbidden Orchard
3 Krosan Grip

This is actually really good. I've also came to the conclusion that a Living Wish acts like a Demonic Tutor when utilized properly for a while now. The redundancy factor also seems strong. Have you considered Spell Pierce as additional protection? I always tend to run Lotus petal in things like this. Has that ever crossed your mind?

[Koby]

Although the cascade spells both serve as search and cost reduction to play Hypergenesis, they also come in weird combination of colors. It'll be a pain fetching for the perfect pair of duals to cast them. Running rainbow lands can help in this department but still a single Blood Moon sabotages the plan entirely.

You can still run the ESG, which serves as to provide acceleration for Hypergenesis, and an out for Blood Moon. Consider this shell:

4 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
4 Hypergenesis
4 ESG
4 SSG

16-20 "Fatties"

14-18 Lands (Forbidden Orchard, Gemstone Mine, etc)

I think that porting the current Hypergenesis deck to legacy would be faster and more resilient than the deck posted in the OP. However, to not completely derail the thread, would adopting Hypergenesis (12 cards = 8 Cascades 4 Hypergenesis) make the deck more explosive? Consistent? Just something to think about.

[kinda]

This is actually really good. I've also came to the conclusion that a Living Wish acts like a Demonic Tutor when utilized properly for a while now. The redundancy factor also seems strong. Have you considered Spell Pierce as additional protection? I always tend to run Lotus petal in things like this. Has that ever crossed your mind?

I did consider spell pierce but I think acceleration is more important (though you could argue it be used in place of force). I'm thinking shaving some living wish, defense of the heart, ponder for 3-4 lotus petal would be a good idea.

Also, I've found 3x forbidden orchard and 1 in the board to tutor for is important to keep defense of the heart from being a portcullis (which isn't actually that bad...we're just trying to survive till we drop fatties right)?

[Kangaxx]

I did consider spell pierce but I think acceleration is more important (though you could argue it be used in place of force). I'm thinking shaving some living wish, defense of the heart, ponder for 3-4 lotus petal would be a good idea.

Also, I've found 3x forbidden orchard and 1 in the board to tutor for is important to keep defense of the heart from being a portcullis (which isn't actually that bad...we're just trying to survive till we drop fatties right)?

Right. Why did you choose to run x3 in the board, exactly? How has running 9 legendary creatures been for you? Any issues with that? I've had my eye on... http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAG_ROE/PestilenceDemon.jpg ...for a while now. He looks better in Reanimator but maybe he can find a home in Eureka decks as well.

[kinda]

Right. Why did you choose to run x3 in the board, exactly? How has running 9 legendary creatures been for you? Any issues with that? I've had my eye on... http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAG_ROE/PestilenceDemon.jpg ...for a while now. He looks better in Reanimator but maybe he can find a home in Eureka decks as well.

I forgot that this is legacy and most decks don't run a bunch of creatures. @ the next two points...emrakul, progenitus, and iona all blank removal which makes them so good...legendary has not been a problem at all. The demon thing doesn't blank removal...making it less effective and tutoring for gameskeeper in g2/3 less effective.

[Kangaxx]

I forgot that this is legacy and most decks don't run a bunch of creatures. @ the next two points...emrakul, progenitus, and iona all blank removal which makes them so good...legendary has not been a problem at all. The demon thing doesn't blank removal...making it less effective and tutoring for gameskeeper in g2/3 less effective.

How has DotH been for you? I'd actually be more tempted to run counters in it's place such as Daze. It seems to me that S&T and Eureka seems to be a sufficient amount of redundancy. But I could be incorrect.

[Eldar]

You have it wrong. Just remember that there is no creature-based solution to Humility and you should do fine.

That sir is where you are wrong, they just printed one. Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre since his whenever he is cast ability he blows up a permanent. Of course you have to actually cast him not cheat him into play ;P.

[Narcissism]

Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker will also fit Oblivion Ring's slot better as a Eureka target.

Nicol Bolas, or any planeswalker for that matter can not be put into play with either Hypergenesis or Eureka.

[ykpon]

Nicol Bolas, or any planeswalker for that matter can not be put into play with either Hypergenesis or Eureka.

You probably should reread Eureka.

[Narcissism]

You probably should reread Eureka.

In that case, I must apologise. I know that Hypergenesis could not do so, hence I assumed that Eureka was the same (being its ancestor and all) - that was what got me.

[kinda]

This list t16'd the scg 5k this weekend...it looks like the list I posted above w/ the suggested changes (lotus petal/daze instead of defense of the heart/living wish)...the biggest difference is hierarch over lands 17-20, which seems risky to me.

Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal

Creatures
4 Noble Hierarch

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Wipe Away

Legendary Creatures
4 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
4 Progenitus

Sorceries
3 Eureka
4 Ponder
4 Show And Tell

Basic Lands
1 Forest
3 Island

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island

Sideboard:
3 Blazing Archon
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Form Of The Dragon
4 Mindbreak Trap

[Mr.C]

So, if Tabernacle is $250 because it's a one of in one deck, does that mean my Eurekas will be worth $750?

:)

[ktkenshinx]

Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal

Creatures
4 Noble Hierarch

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Wipe Away

Legendary Creatures
4 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
4 Progenitus

Sorceries
3 Eureka
4 Ponder
4 Show And Tell

Basic Lands
1 Forest
3 Island

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island

Sideboard:
3 Blazing Archon
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Form Of The Dragon
4 Mindbreak Trap

Kinda: I firmly agree about the Hierarch riskiness. I understand that this is essentially a 3-4 mana combo deck, and that Hierarch based acceleration is better than just straight land drops. But this is a vulnerable dude. Zoo seems like it would have every incentive to Bolt/Chain/Swords the Hierarch away on turn 2, just to slow you down. The same goes for various Threshold and Countertop builds with their own set of removal. This could leave you with a crippled hand, unable to get above 2 mana.

A better option seems:

-4 Hierarch
+2 City of Traitors
+1 Forest
+1 Island

Increasing the 2 colorless lands (Tomb/City) count to 6 drastically improves your chances of a turn 2-3 Emrakul/Progenitus. The other two lands are just filler.

As to the sideboard, I'm not sold on the Archon and Form of the Dragon package. For one, they serve overlapping roles. More importantly, they exclude Iona from your board. The random "I win" factor that Iona brings to the table appears better than the less certain Archon drop. This is especially true given the extreme vulnerability of Archon. The only deck I could possibly see Archon working well against would be Dredge, Fish, and Reanimator, owing to their relative lack of removal. That said, all of these decks run bounce as a contingency plan, and with the exception of Dredge, back up this bounce with countermagic. Goblins and Zoo obviously don't care too much about the rather vulnerable archon.

What function does the Archon serve that Form/Iona do not?

-ktkenshinx-

[Kangaxx]

So, if Tabernacle is $250 because it's a one of in one deck, does that mean my Eurekas will be worth $750?

:)

Eurekas are now worth $100 dollars a piece. SCG.com is buying then for $60 each, and I only paid $120 for a playset like a month ago, which I actually purchased at SCG.com.

As for the latest GW build (not sure if that's the build you're willing to discuss?), Fierce Empath is now included as card advantage and a way to sculpt your hand. Any thoughts on him? He chump blocks Goyfs and Lackeys, lets you run x1 of's of Ulamog and kozilek, etc. I think he might be strong, since eureka is one of those cards that rely alot on card quality as well as card advantage.

[swarm187]

Has anyone considered running Summoner's Pact here? Seems like an easy hand fix for the turn you drop Eureka, plus you know you've got the mana to pay next upkeep if you're casting Eureka. If not Pact, what about Worldly Tutor? That seems like a cheaper alternative to Fierce Empath, and since you have to reveal both, the only drawback is the fact that you have to put it on top of your library. EOT Worldly Tutor strikes me as better than a main-phased Empath though. Just a thought.

[Kangaxx]

Has anyone considered running Summoner's Pact here? Seems like an easy hand fix for the turn you drop Eureka, plus you know you've got the mana to pay next upkeep if you're casting Eureka. If not Pact, what about Worldly Tutor? That seems like a cheaper alternative to Fierce Empath, and since you have to reveal both, the only drawback is the fact that you have to put it on top of your library. EOT Worldly Tutor strikes me as better than a main-phased Empath though. Just a thought.

The difference between Wordly Tutor and Empath, is mainly that Worldly Tutor is card disadvantage, and Empath is actually card advantage, which is so important when you play a spell that puts permanents into play. Empath also chumpblocks Lackeys, goyfs, and sucks up removal, allowing you to play your bigger threats with less chances of being dealt with, which pushes the card over the edge. I don't know about Summoner's Pact, the card seems too situation and expensive and isn't actually able to fetch Eldrazi.

[Barook]

This list t16'd the scg 5k this weekend...it looks like the list I posted above w/ the suggested changes (lotus petal/daze instead of defense of the heart/living wish)...the biggest difference is hierarch over lands 17-20, which seems risky to me.

Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal

Creatures
4 Noble Hierarch

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Wipe Away

Legendary Creatures
4 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
4 Progenitus

Sorceries
3 Eureka
4 Ponder
4 Show And Tell

Basic Lands
1 Forest
3 Island

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island

Sideboard:
3 Blazing Archon
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Form Of The Dragon
4 Mindbreak Trap

Gratz to the finish. I'm aware that there are going to be space issues, but just asking: Why not make a hybrid with Natural Order instead if pushing your luck with Eureka? You are already running Progenitus.

Eureka's price tag is retarded and it also has potential to backfire. Hierarch + BoP + Fetches for a single Dryad Arbor should provide some solid creature count for NO. Plus, it can be fetched with Tutor, so you aren't required to hold a fatty in your hand to "go off".

[kinda]

Ok, 2 things:

1) That wasn't me I was just commenting on the list.

2) What exactly are you going to cut for birds? If your opponent knows what you're playing, running hierarch over lands 17-20 is already a bad idea.

[Dilettante]

I am going to laugh the moment I see someone run Kederekt Leviathan as super secret tech against this deck.

[ramanujan]

There has been some criticism of the BOP slot. There has also been the suggestion of more 2 mana producing lands. How about Eladamri's Vineyard? It accelerates the deck more than BOP and will provide a turn 2 Eureka with a 2 land hand. The negatives are that it decreases the power of daze on your opponents turn but it could give daze protection on the turn you go off. I think I'll get some. There is of course the liability of giving your opponent gg for free but I think it could work out. Plus, it is another seemingly symmetric card for this deck, which is pretty neat, not that it matters.

-Peace

[kinda]

It's interesting, I was unaware of that card...but playing that makes waste on your blue source even worse. With daze in there I really think the deck just needs 4 more fetches in place of hierarch.

[Kangaxx]

I think that the Noble Heirarchs are in that list to nullify Innocent Blood/ Diabolic Edict effects aside from the obvious mana accerelation applications. I run Decree of Silence in my blue based Eureka list for similiar reasons. I'll post my blue based list in a bit.

[kinda]

Ok, I know this deck doesn't actually have eureka in it...but since this thread had some discussion on a similar deck/it hasn't had much attention lately ...here it is. The basic idea is that black discard can rip relevant threats and show and tell is the card you want to play anyway (over eureka).

4 underground sea
4 polluted delta
4 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors
3 misty rainforest
1 swamp
1 island

4 progenitus
4 emrakul
1 Iona

1 wipe away
4 show and tell
4 brainstorm
4 thoughtseize
2 inquisition of kozilek
4 lotus petal
4 mystical tutor
4 force of will
4 ponder
1 personal tutor

[ktkenshinx]

I think that the Noble Heirarchs are in that list to nullify Innocent Blood/ Diabolic Edict effects aside from the obvious mana accerelation applications. I run Decree of Silence in my blue based Eureka list for similiar reasons. I'll post my blue based list in a bit.
When you use deckcheck.net to search for Lightning Bolt, you get 1426 search results; too many to display the individual decks that use them. Swords to Plowshares returns an even higher 2581 hits. Using the same site and its "Most Played Cards in Legacy" page, we find that Swords is the 9th most used card in the whole format with 9808 copies. Bolt trails at 18th with 5514.

Innocent Blood/Diabolic Edict/Chainer's Edict/Gatekeeper of Malakir/etc. do not even come close to those numbers. Searching the entire DeckCheck database, we find the following results for these sacrifice effects:

Innocent Blood: 78 decks
Diabolic Edict: 206 decks
Chainer's Edict: 51 decks
Gatekeeper of Malakir: 42 decks
Warren Weirding: 164 decks

Compared to the whopping 1426 and 2481 results of the spot removal, these sacrifice effects don't even compare in prevalence.

Hierarch is a tempting early game target. This is especially true with Bolt. Your opponent knows you aren't going to have any other creatures worth bolting; why give them an effective +4 Wastelands? The same goes for Daze, which can easily take out a Hierarch off your first turn draw. This deck already has vulnerabilities with its critical sorceries (Show and Tell, Eureka). Why add to that with Hierarch?

Sacrifice effects are just not widely used enough to warrant the Hierarch's inclusion. This might be a meta-dependent call, but for the most part, you would rather have the extra land than the vulnerable acceleration.

-ktkenshinx-

[Kangaxx]

When you use deckcheck.net to search for Lightning Bolt, you get 1426 search results; too many to display the individual decks that use them. Swords to Plowshares returns an even higher 2581 hits. Using the same site and its "Most Played Cards in Legacy" page, we find that Swords is the 9th most used card in the whole format with 9808 copies. Bolt trails at 18th with 5514.

Innocent Blood/Diabolic Edict/Chainer's Edict/Gatekeeper of Malakir/etc. do not even come close to those numbers. Searching the entire DeckCheck database, we find the following results for these sacrifice effects:

Innocent Blood: 78 decks
Diabolic Edict: 206 decks
Chainer's Edict: 51 decks
Gatekeeper of Malakir: 42 decks
Warren Weirding: 164 decks

Compared to the whopping 1426 and 2481 results of the spot removal, these sacrifice effects don't even compare in prevalence.

Hierarch is a tempting early game target. This is especially true with Bolt. Your opponent knows you aren't going to have any other creatures worth bolting; why give them an effective +4 Wastelands? The same goes for Daze, which can easily take out a Hierarch off your first turn draw. This deck already has vulnerabilities with its critical sorceries (Show and Tell, Eureka). Why add to that with Hierarch?

Sacrifice effects are just not widely used enough to warrant the Hierarch's inclusion. This might be a meta-dependent call, but for the most part, you would rather have the extra land than the vulnerable acceleration.

-ktkenshinx-

I think that Noble Hierarch is BAD in the deck. I'd much rather run Elvish Spirit Guide which not only gets around sac effects, but Daze effects as well, whenever avaliable. It accelerants a turn sooner and is more resistent to removal.

I also feel that Fierce Empath is a gem for the deck, generating card advantage and allowing you to run x1 ofs of other Eldrazi

I'm also very tempted to build and test a BG Eureka build. Eureka is one of those cards where card advantage is essential. And black has alot to offer such as Sign In Blood, Night's Whisper, Skeletal Scrying, aside from the obvious Thoughtseize/Duress effects that naturally come with it.

Sphinx of the Steel Wind also seems like a good empath target when your fatties are down but can be outraced. Seems like a good x1 of to me.

[SMR0079]

Another direction is to convert to a cascade hypergenesis build. It solves the budget problems of obtaining eureka, and adds a degree of brokenness albeit at the cost of greater variance.

Compared to the extended versions, we have Force and misdirection to protect the combo, and Shown Tell provides a 2 pronged strategy.

Has anyone considered thie strategy?

[kinda]

Another direction is to convert to a cascade hypergenesis build. It solves the budget problems of obtaining eureka, and adds a degree of brokenness albeit at the cost of greater variance.

Compared to the extended versions, we have Force and misdirection to protect the combo, and Shown Tell provides a 2 pronged strategy.

Has anyone considered thie strategy?

I wish...but with cascade you can't play 1-2 cc protection spells, brainstorm, ponder, or color fixing excel...

[lacombeshawn]

This deck is terrible in the current metagame of goblins, merfolk, and new horizan being all top decks. All of those decks have good game against it. Game one in those games are terrible against goblins and new horizans and 40/60 with merfolk or less. The heirarchs were for edict effects from goblins, and decks with burning wish that get edict effects such as aggro loam, etc. while allowing for more mana and accelleration and playing less mana sources.