[Tournament] Mox Sapphire Fords, NJ April 10th, 2010

[Daveslusher]

Place :430 New Brunswick Ave. Fords, NJ 08863 @ Timezone Gaming (http://tzgv2.timezonegaming.com/)
Time: April, 10 2010 2:00PM
Cost: $25
Format : Chaos Pauper Standard Legacy
Prizes:
1st Mox Sapphire
Other prizes will be given out depending on attendance.


UP TO 50 PEOPLE!!!!*

This is to jump start our weekly legacy tournaments on sunday at 3:30pm!
Come on out and win a mox!

Pre-registration can be found here (http://store.timezonegaming.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=55&products_id=6537)

*unfortunatley, the store can only support so many people. IF it's like 51-60 i'm sure we can squeeze people in.

[Jim Higginbottom]

"Other prizes will be given out depending on attendance" What does that even mean? Could we at least get an idea?

[mchainmail]

My team would make it if this wasn't the same day as a 1.5k at Jupiter Games.

[Jim Higginbottom]

My crew kinda feels the same way. We still might attend this over vestal if we had a clue what other prizes would be if any. I'd feel stupid getting 2nd and getting a handshake as my prize.

[The Pharmacist]

What a dick move! Haveing a tournament the sameday as Eli, when his tournament has been posted for months now.

[Jim Higginbottom]

And is there any chance we could see a scan of the mox?

[hungryLIKEALION]

Yeah, I think you'd be better served by moving this to a different day. Pretty much the entire eastcoast legacy scene will be at Jupiter Games this day.

[Daveslusher]

o.o;;; oh well then.

i had no idea the 1.5k would be so devistating to our tournament.

i'll see what i can do.

Other prizes would consist of the duals we have on hand, booster packs and all the good stuff.

also, i'll attempt to get a photo of the mox.

[mchainmail]

Even bumping the tournament to Sunday would mean I'll be there. (I'm judging at Vestal, so I don't know if other people can afford it, but it shouldn't be too big of a deal.)

[talon7331]

I'd be down for this if it was on the 11th, but the 10th is jupiter games.

[Daveslusher]

i apologize everyone, i can't get another date for the tournament till mid may, so if people don't show up on the 10th the tournament will be moved back.

The 11th is an anime convention
the 17th is prerelease of rise
the 24th is release of rise'
and the 1st of may is yugioh sneak peek.

[argopelter]

You'd probably be better off holding this in May and clearly describing the prize support.

If you're saying outright that you won't run the event "if people don't show up," then it seems like a big risk to come to yours when there's another tournament the same day that's guaranteed to run with guaranteed prizes.

A

[Jim Higginbottom]

It was the worst run tournament I've attended. You guys didn't miss much.

[Jim Higginbottom]

Hopefully Andrew and Tacco (sp?) will write reports.

[Daveslusher]

It was the worst run tournament I've attended. You guys didn't miss much.

yeah certain players were crying about 1 round!

[TOGITwill]

It was actually pretty terrible. The owner of the store obviously did not know anything about customer service, as we all know shouting at players and mocking them is not the best way to handle any situation. The player who was complaining had a legitimate complaint. The DCI put the tournament structure in place for a reason: because that's the way it should be run if its a sanctioned event. Having the store owner say, "Can't win with only 3 rounds?" as a response to a paying customer requesting that a tournament be run correctly only shows how incompetent the management there is. The Magic Tournament Rules states 17-32 people should play FIVE rounds. It wasn't only one person complaining either, there were many people unhappy with this. Thankfully we managed to fight you enough so that there would be four rounds, but even still, how hard would it have been to play five? Not very hard at all.

The prize structure was absolutely atrocious. A mox for first is fine and all, but not even saying what second gets until after the start of top 8 and then giving the shaft for 3-8 is probably one of the worst things I've witnessed in a long time.

Good luck trying to get any players to come there for future events. I know about 8 players (so far) that have promised to never visit your site again.

[akuma1623]

Hey everyone. I had a great time at this event. First time playing a legacy event in a long time and I learned alot by playing it. So many different decks that when I used to play. To me it seems like the format is alot more diverse than it used to be . I had fun even though I lost terribly. LOL. Its a nice store and I will probably be playing alot more Legacy, as soon as I find a deck I like, just to many choices. As far as the number arounds, I figured I remember the rules correctly and I checked on the MTG site in the rules and it states that the 5 rounds is for Premier events and for non-premier the Tournament Organizers are allowed to decide how many to use. I play pretty much every TCG game off and on, pretty much switch it up when I get bored and every other game for under 32 players does 4 rounds, they dont do 5 until you hit 32 or more. The 4 rounds didnt seem to be a bad idea. The prize structure was to be based on attendance so there was no real way to know ahead of time what the prizes were. I dont see why when the prizes were announced would affect anything. If your already playing, prizes announced during 1st or 2nd round, make no difference as if they are announced after the swiss rounds.

As I said I had a great time as a returning player to the format and I hope to participate in many more Legacy events :) .

[cdr]

It was actually pretty terrible. The owner of the store obviously did not know anything about customer service, as we all know shouting at players and mocking them is not the best way to handle any situation. The player who was complaining had a legitimate complaint. The DCI put the tournament structure in place for a reason: because that's the way it should be run if its a sanctioned event. Having the store owner say, "Can't win with only 3 rounds?" as a response to a paying customer requesting that a tournament be run correctly only shows how incompetent the management there is. The Magic Tournament Rules states 17-32 people should play FIVE rounds. It wasn't only one person complaining either, there were many people unhappy with this. Thankfully we managed to fight you enough so that there would be four rounds, but even still, how hard would it have been to play five? Not very hard at all.

The prize structure was absolutely atrocious. A mox for first is fine and all, but not even saying what second gets until after the start of top 8 and then giving the shaft for 3-8 is probably one of the worst things I've witnessed in a long time.

Good luck trying to get any players to come there for future events. I know about 8 players (so far) that have promised to never visit your site again.

It doesn't seem as if your feedback to the organizer is/was as constructive as it could have been, though it sounds as if the organizer may not have handled things very well either. As a frequent tournament player you are no doubt very used to how competitive events are run, but an organizer who is just starting to run competitive events may not have any idea of what the standard way of things is (or even that there is a standard) so it's helpful to cut them a little slack. You catch more flies with honey, or whatever it is they say.

Five rounds for 17+ people is a standard for a good reason, but it's not a hard rule - TOs are allowed to run sanctioned tournaments with less than the number of recommended rounds.

Hopefully the TO got got some good feedback, as constructive or unconstrutive as it may have been, and will continue to run events and continue to learn how to better run competitive events. Hopefully you will agree that having more tournaments is generally a good thing, and will support TOs as they learn.

[TOGITwill]

I'd have no problem with cutting someone a little slack if the TO herself wasn't such a dreadful person to deal with. The entire experience wouldn't have been nearly as bad had the TO acted her age.

[NjPunk1]

Everyone tried to work this out correctly, but the TO immediately became hostile about the situation. People tried to explain the reasoning behind having 5 rounds at that amount of people and she responded by mocking them. I'm a reasonable person, and I understand that it is hard to start running proper events in this format, but the whole situation was terrible. I'm never going back there, unless they improve everything.

[akuma1623]

I am not to sure that is accurate about what happened. I was in the store when things transpired and when it was said to be 4 rounds the blonde haired guy (dont know his name) got an attitude right away telling the TO how to run her event. He actually got an attitude first . I am sure if he explained his views on the number of rounds respectfully or calmly things would have went differently, but from what I saw he instantly got an attitude and very snippy which i am sure upset the TO as she wasnt being treated with respect. Considering he was wrong about the number of rounds , as Wizards says its 5 rounds for premier events and non premier the TO chooses how many they want, which he says it has to be 5 rounds and intern he is incorrect. I looked up that ruling before I typed anything to make sure I was correct.

[NjPunk1]

I'm sure your correct about it's the TO's discretion for number of rounds, but this was the first tournament I've ever attended that didn't follow the dci guidelines for them. Why not have the 5 rounds? The TO should definitely be more clear about prize support next time too. Not declaring 2-8 prizes until round 4 is kind of weak.
Out of curiosity, what deck were you playing there?

[Jim Higginbottom]

Thanks for totally misconstruing what I said. I didn't say it HAD to be 5 rounds. In fact all I did was ask how many rounds we were playing and I was told 3. I asked why we were only playing 3 rounds with over 20 people at which point she started berating me. Maybe they could run tournaments with more rounds if they didn't start them in the middle of the afternoon.

The only people on this thread backing up the store have less than 6 posts combined on this site. I'm going to assume you guys don't play in a lot of tournaments for eternal formats where we're used to tournament organizers having a clue what they're doing.

We chose to attend this event over the one in Vestal, NY almost entirely to try and support another store having legacy tournaments in New Jersey. In the future I'm pretty sure we'll go elsewhere.

[akuma1623]

Well when she did say 3 rounds once one of the store players corrected her and said it should be 4 rounds she admitted she made a mistake. Simple error,from the looks of it she was doing a lot of things at once. I do remember hearing you say that wizards says this it is to be run with 5 rounds when she announced it would be 4,that was clearly said and she stated that it is suggested but up to the TO. Your statement about me having very few posts is irrelevant. I have very few posts because I just joined this site to read up more on the current state of the game. I have been playing tcg card games for the past 15 years. I have played magic,pokemon,yugioh,legend of the 5 rings,huntik,hell even harry potter.I have tried almost every game out there and have played most competatively. I have top 4 in several pokemon state champs,been to every yugioh nationals since 05,won quite a few mtg locals in legacy and type 2 before.I understand how tournaments work and what goes on ,so don't think just by my post count I am ignorant to how tournaments are run. Why am I saying good things about the event? Reason being is that I had a fun time,a good experience and believe it was run very well especially considering they are just starting to run legacy events.Thanks

[Jim Higginbottom]

Well I'm pretty sure the people who won the event disagree with you and if anyone was enjoying that event I think it was them. :)

[NjPunk1]

Akuma, were you the dredge player at the store? I'm trying to figure out who you were there. Does the store plan on holding other legacy events? I want as much legacy as possible in Jersey and I hope Time Zone gets its act together so I have more options.

[Daveslusher]

Thanks for totally misconstruing what I said. I didn't say it HAD to be 5 rounds. In fact all I did was ask how many rounds we were playing and I was told 3. I asked why we were only playing 3 rounds with over 20 people at which point she started berating me. Maybe they could run tournaments with more rounds if they didn't start them in the middle of the afternoon.

Nonono, thats actually not how it worked.
You asked, she said 3, you immediatley responded with "That's rediculous, it should be 5." with an increidbly hostil attitude. and THAT'S when she started to argue with you. I stepped in correcting her with "no mary, we usually do 4 rounds for fnm, why not here?" after which you didn't even hesitate to take your entry back and kept berating the owner.

How you're telling me she gave you an attitude with no cause? Give me a break.



The only people on this thread backing up the store have less than 6 posts combined on this site. I'm going to assume you guys don't play in a lot of tournaments for eternal formats where we're used to tournament organizers having a clue what they're doing.

I've been lurking here for multiple years getting feedback on the decks i wish to obtain in the near future. I fail to see what post count has anything to do with what i know about legacy and tournaments. I find it incredibly cute you have to hide behind a bunch of lies and bullshit to make it seems like my store was the bad guy.



We chose to attend this event over the one in Vestal, NY almost entirely to try and support another store having legacy tournaments in New Jersey. In the future I'm pretty sure we'll go elsewhere.

No, you came to our store to "steal the mox" as my good friend shared with me a few days before the tournament. You had no intention of coming back, you just wanted a free win. I'm glad you'll be going elsewhere, because for refernce YOU and ONLY YOU are not welcome back to my store because all you can do is cry and bitch over the internet.


Well I'm pretty sure the people who won the event disagree with you and if anyone was enjoying that event I think it was them. :)

I'm glad they enjoyed the event. I enjoyed playing 2 rounds of legacy, and i clearly have alot more to learn about it.

Let's break down the REAL numbers,

http://shop.strikezoneonline.com/Category/2241/08851-285_Mox_Sapphire.html
oh look 549

http://sales.starcitygames.com//carddisplay.php?product=11846
and 549

http://www.mtgfanatic.com/store/magic/ViewCard.aspx?I=MTG-MS-036171
AND 599!

THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS! THE 500 THE OWNER GAVE ON THE MOX WAS BELOW AVERAGE OF MINT CONDITION!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, we don't have the singles at THIS point that we can't take the hit from the tournament and make it back on singles.
We have 20-35 people for fnm, we've had up to 25 people for draft. All tournaments with the standards we had for the legacy tournament. Not a single person complained in such a rash and rude manner like you did. Had you been very civil about it i'm sure something could of been done to appease you, but no you took the obnoxious and loud route, hence you didn't get what you want.

I'm sorry you always get what you want when you want it. That's not life in other places.
When things are suggested, they can be changed. This weekend was a clear example of that.

To everyone else, i'm sorry the tournament was not up to your standards, but this our 1st time running a legacy tournament and had no idea that you were accustomed to much higher payout and play. If we choose to have other legacy events in the future we will keep this in mind.

to you [snip], you and people like you are the reason legacy is such an untouched format, because clearly you weren't good enough to play with the big boys in block,standard, and draft and you had to run to a format where they will do ANYTHING to get a player base. You are rude, obnoxious and a giant fucking child who ran from the store to the internet to complain. I hope that when i play legacy in the future, i never meet anyone else like you. Enjoy togit where you can get whatever the fuck you want, because if you ever show up here again i will gladly kick your fat lisped ass.

This is the last time i'll be looking at this thread. Say whatever the fuck you want about me, you wouldn't say any of that shit to my face. :)

[Schulz]

Sorry, we don't have the singles at THIS point that we can't take the hit from the tournament and make it back on singles.

Then maybe you should have waited until a later date when you have more/better stuff.



To everyone else, i'm sorry the tournament was not up to your standards, but this our 1st time running a legacy tournament and had no idea that you were accustomed to much higher payout and play. If we choose to have other legacy events in the future we will keep this in mind.

If this was your first time holding a legacy tournament you should be taking suggestion from players that have been to one every chance they can. also this just goes to prove that he was right about you not really knowing the format due to your lack of posts.



to you [snip], you and people like you are the reason legacy is such an untouched format, because clearly you weren't good enough to play with the big boys in block,standard, and draft and you had to run to a format where they will do ANYTHING to get a player base. You are rude, obnoxious and a giant fucking child who ran from the store to the internet to complain. I hope that when i play legacy in the future, i never meet anyone else like you. Enjoy togit where you can get whatever the fuck you want, because if you ever show up here again i will gladly kick your fat lisped ass.

This is a very unprofessional thing to say and just goes to show that maybe it wasn't him being the rude one, maybe you just over reacted because you don't know how to handle people in a proper manner.

you sir should not run your mouth using real names because you do not know who that will affect and what way it will rub them and you never want to rub the wrong people the wrong way.



This is the last time i'll be looking at this thread. Say whatever the fuck you want about me, you wouldn't say any of that shit to my face. :)

Give me your store hours and i will gladly show up there any day of the week to tell you this to your face.

[jprice]

Thanks for totally misconstruing what I said. I didn't say it HAD to be 5 rounds. In fact all I did was ask how many rounds we were playing and I was told 3. I asked why we were only playing 3 rounds with over 20 people at which point she started berating me. Maybe they could run tournaments with more rounds if they didn't start them in the middle of the afternoon.

The only people on this thread backing up the store have less than 6 posts combined on this site. I'm going to assume you guys don't play in a lot of tournaments for eternal formats where we're used to tournament organizers having a clue what they're doing.

We chose to attend this event over the one in Vestal, NY almost entirely to try and support another store having legacy tournaments in New Jersey. In the future I'm pretty sure we'll go elsewhere.

This was the first legacy tournament I have ever played in. I'm primarily a ptq grinder who has seen continued success at the ptq level and have been qualified for the last 3 pro tours, recently won regionals, played in nationals, etc. I feel like I need to make this account and post because you're acting like a pompous ass and are a prime example of why I would never go to a weekly legacy tournament at a store like TOGIT.

A majority of the things you just posted are also blatant lies. The TO said ONCE it was three rounds, and she quickly corrected that it would be, in fact, four. From there on you argued it should be five rounds, and not four. You stated repeatedly that it should be five until you realized she wasn't an idiot and knew the DCI only gives a suggested number, and that they're not set in stone, which was amusing in itself. But not as amusing as you acting like you acting like you had pull over everyone else there, and that you were all going to ask for your money back and leave, which didn't happen, and showed your true colors as you couldn't even stand by your own convictions and leave. So, I have no idea why you keep saying three.

Not only that, but you continually kept whining and complaining about it. What do you expect her to do? Sit there like a retard and let you berate her and the event she runs? Once again, this isn't your store, and it's not your place to tell her how to run a tournament. You then lied about having your own store, and not moments later did one of your own friends contradict you and say you simply "work" at one. I would honestly be ashamed at the owner of that store. It would probably be the same kind of person who lets players enter tournaments for free with a promise of being in the drawing for a random prize just so she can fudge her attendance numbers.

As an aside, why do you even need five rounds? If you can't go 3-1 and make top8, either you/your deck/both is atrocious. Your argument that not all X-1s would make top8 was about as moronic as possible, seeing as anyone with half of a brain can do the math and realize that all X-1s would make top8 in a 24 person tournament. You using the argument that "something stupid can happen" and you can not make top8 is completely unreal. It truly shows how childish you are and that you cannot function as an adult. Something stupid can happen in a 14 round Grand Prix, and is about 3+ times more likely to happen. Why don't I just not play in them?

From there on, you go to act like you're better than every other person who plays Magic. Tournament organizers having a clue what they're doing for a format? Give me a break. Do you know the countless amounts of tournaments Neutral Ground ran with just a Time Walk for for first place, and nothing more than 16 packs for second? With over 50 people? Do you know how many people went to that tournament and didn't complain that there wasn't more prize? None. Maybe it was because they were literate, could call the store to verify exactly how the prize could and would change based upon attendance. I'm not a complete idiot, and knew EXACTLY what it would be like ahead of time by consulting with the store owner. So stop complaining the event was poorly planned, she doesn't know what she's doing, etc. What kind of event do you know that gives prize to the top 1/3 of a tournament? Because it seems ridiculous.

Also, the fact that you claim you were going to the store to "support" it is a bit ludicrous. You and your friends claimed weeks ago you were going to "walk in, win a mox, leave, and not go back." For you to sit behind a computer screen and write lies, then try to use your post count to show that you are superior to anyone who refutes them with the truth is the biggest joke I have ever seen.

I honestly hope for the owner's sake, you never return to this store, because if I were her or any of her employees, I would rather deal with a 16 year old YuGiOh player, as at least they have SOME class and a decent level of maturity.

[Jim Higginbottom]

Price: I drew round 2 against a kid with like all 5-7 drops and also drew round 3 against John playing lands. Stupid stuff did happen and I was knocked out of contention where I'd of been fine with 5 rounds (we never finished game 1 of round 3, i'd of won with 2-3 more turns). Playing the appropriate number of rounds makes it so that the better players rise to the top and a lot less is determined by luck. I never said not all X-1s would make top 8, nor did I say I owned a store (she asked if i owned a store and tocco laughed and said I worked at one). Stop lying before you hurt yourself.

Mod: Please lock and edit the thread. It has long outlived its usefulness.

[agw]

It looks like without me here to put people in their place things go wild...

This event was a great example why stores that cater to yugioh, pokemon and type 2 players shouldn't attempt to run legacy events...

Legacy players expect events to be run in an intelligent manner. This means the proper number of rounds according to WotC standards.

Legacy players aren't going to drool over a mox sapphire and some store credit as prize support when the store is taking in over $600 just on entry fee's plus whatever sales they make thanks to the event. You can say whatever you want, but an unlimited sapphire isn't worth $500+. Apathyhouse puts unlimited sapphires at under $400. Also, stores like SCG and Jupiter Games run evens with guaranteed prize support. Many times they will lose money due to not getting enough players, but they still give out full support as they make their money through card sales. If your shop isn't capable of running a profitable card sales business and you need to rely on making your money off the tournament entry fee thats pretty pathetic. Good luck staying in business.

Legacy players realize that stores rely on players to stay in business and expect to be treated with respect. Mocking players who traveled from other stores to make this event reflects terribly on your store and makes you look like buffoons when you are actually running the event improperly while the stores we are coming from run events correctly.


This was the first legacy tournament I have ever played in. I'm primarily a ptq grinder who has seen continued success at the ptq level and have been qualified for the last 3 pro tours, recently won regionals, played in nationals, etc. I feel like I need to make this account and post because you're acting like a pompous ass and are a prime example of why I would never go to a weekly legacy tournament at a store like TOGIT.
Hahahaha. Qualified for the past 3 PT's. Why don't you go play in one? Oh wait, you didn't win any invites you q'd on rating and it looks like your too scared to go play with the big boys. Have fun playing yugioh(or is it called type 2?) at regionals. Thats just a giant fnm anyway.
90% of the events I play are legacy or highlander. You know what happens when I go play your pokemon formats at ptq's? I win. I don't even need to know what the cards do. It ain't hard casting bloodbraid elf and cascading into random crap.



A majority of the things you just posted are also blatant lies. The TO said ONCE it was three rounds, and she quickly corrected that it would be, in fact, four. From there on you argued it should be five rounds, and not four. You stated repeatedly that it should be five until you realized she wasn't an idiot and knew the DCI only gives a suggested number, and that they're not set in stone, which was amusing in itself. But not as amusing as you acting like you acting like you had pull over everyone else there, and that you were all going to ask for your money back and leave, which didn't happen, and showed your true colors as you couldn't even stand by your own convictions and leave. So, I have no idea why you keep saying three.
It had been posted that timezones opinion was a 20ish person event should only be 3 rounds.

[Jim Higginbottom]

Price, anyone decent could Q on rating if all they did was play the scrubs in that store at FNM.

[TOGITwill]

Price, don't go on about your play-skill and all of that other random bullshit. Playing Enchantress of all things doesn't exactly take skill. There's also the fact that I don't think anyone cares. You also don't do yourself much good by targeting an entire store and generalizing its populace just because you don't like one of its employees. That just makes you seem like you hang around the bottom of the maturity barrel.

A paying customer has every right to complain when he's displeased with the service. If I pay 25 dollars to enter a tournament, I'm paying to play. And god damn it, I want to get as much as I can out of that 25 dollars. If I get that same amount of money to get me 5 rounds at 24 people playing in every other tournament I've attended, I should expect that same standard. You must not know a damned thing about running a business or customer service if you can stand by the TOs actions. Jim did not berate anyone. He made valid points, while it may have been with a slightly raised voice due to the situation, that should have been listened to. It's not even like he was the only one that felt that way. At least a third of the players in the tournament, including the top two finishers (and even more in the top 8) agreed with Jim.

A store can most certainly dish out prize support to the top 1/3 of the players. Maybe if they didn't blow their whole load on a Sapphire for first and created a reasonable and logical prize structure for the size of the tournament, you wouldn't have had people that managed to top 8 an event and still walk away with nothing. Knowing how to structure and tier an event is generally a good thing to have in a TO. Jim manages to run events far more efficiently and more satisfyingly on a consistent basis. In this regard, yes, Jim does know what it takes to organize and run a tournament with everyone walking away happy. Go take a look at the TOGIT tournament back in January where we managed to give away a Mox, prizes through top 8 (and none of this $100 in store credit that's good for a month crap, and good luck finding anything decent in our inventory), and managed to treat its players with the utmost respect. Because of how we run our tournaments, we're getting almost as many people for $5 Friday Night Legacy events as Time Zone got for this event.

You seem rather vocal for someone who didn't say a word all day when this happened... maybe you shouldn't be calling someone out for hiding behind a computer screen. There's an old saying about a pot, a kettle, and a discrepancy about which one of the two is black. I think thats applicable here.

Had Jim walked from the tournament, I would have followed in suit. Simple as that. I can guarantee you the rest of our group (about a third of the tournament) would have followed and you wouldn't have had a tournament.

[Wolfnutz]

What were the decks in Top 8??

[Jim Higginbottom]

Rbg Goblins, NO Pro, Lands, Saito ANT, Reanimator, Ext legal red death, ?, ?

[Nihil Credo]

The question of how many rounds a tournament should have was answered early in the thread. Any personal, real-life grievance should be taken to PMs, whether it is legitimate or not (something the mod staff is not going to explore).