MTG Sleeves

[markbris]

What brand of sleeves do people use? Whats the most durable? etc

[TooCloseToTheSun]

I use black dragon shields and have found them to be very durable. I have like a 1000 of them and some of them are 4 years old and still are playable locally. I would resleeve for a big tournament though. My roommate uses KMCs and he has never had a problem with them either, but every time I use those sleeves I seem to split one or two.

[mossivo1986]

For just general play I use Silver Dragon shields. For competitive play I use Gold Dragon Shields. Something about the color of gold against a blue play-mat makes me play better. I think it has something to do with the clarity. Also with the ammount of mws play I have been doing it really focus's things down like im playing online so things like stress don't get involved. I believe while its cool to have a pimped out mat and sleeves with half naked chicks, its the focus that those things bring you that inevitably helps you win more matches, especially when you and your opponent are in difficult positions battles.

That may make little sense to any of you guys, but to me it helps!

[RogueMTG]

If you can find old Dragonshields (several years...) get those, my old ones have held up wonderfully and were all pretty much perfect. Lately I have been very disappointed with my last few Dragonshield packs. Roughly 25% of the sleeves were mis-cut to be to either to short or to long, or had other defects that made them unusable.

Similarly Ultra-pro's I've had problems with about 10-15% of them being mis-cut or having warped clear fronts right out of the package. You get a higher % of usable sleeves, but they're not as durable as the Dragonshields.

KMCs all seem fine out of the package, but they get a worn feel pretty quickly in comparison (3-4 events).

Although this is just my experience, since Dragonshield started letting me down I haven't found a suitable replacement yet D:.



EDIT: +1 on the Gold Sleeves w/a Blue Playmat, I ran that for a long time and liked it a lot :D. But I just moved to a new mostly white playmat with the "MTG Back" sleeves. Just needed to change it up.

[Exospaciac]

I've used the KMC black sleeves for a long time and have never been let down. They last a really long time and I've never split one. The KMC pearl white sleeves, however, are awful. I used them at only 3 tournaments and already split over 10 of them.

Dragon Shields seem sturdy to me, but I don't like the way they feel. Same with Ultra Pros. KMCs just feel the best to me.

[Gaius Darkfire]

I generally use my old shine blue sleeves (they're on about half my decks) and some awesome green ones I got a few years back (dont remember brand, I think KMC). I believe that my shine blues have lasted 7-ish years now. They're not pristine and I wouldnt use them in a real tournament (fnm-level sure, ptq-level no), but they are in pretty good condition. The green ones are great though, easily the best I've used besides shine blues.

[DerFern]

Sleeving Tarmogoyf and Tombstalker into pink Dragonshields is amazing!

Anyway, those Dragonshields really disappointed me. I bought three packs and the sleeves from each pack had a different size. I never had that with KMC. Right now all my decks are sleeved in KMCs Pearl White Sleeves and I´m really happy with them...

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I have a set of either Dragonshields or KMC's that were damaged after one tournament of playing Dragon Stompy.

Now I use the opposite brand, which has lasted more than one tournament of Ichorid.

[troopatroop]

Dragon Shields. I like the way the corners shuffle more than other brands, because they last. New ones have been worse tho.

[Malchar]

Dragon Shields are nice but they seem to get dirty quickly, and I don't like having to keep buying new ones. KMC black matte are equally good, but they don't seem to get as dirty as quickly.

[Penguinizer]

I've just been using Ultrapro, largely because it's the brand my LGS carries. Since I end up with extra sleeves, it isn't that huge of an issue if a sleeve breaks. I have had a few sleeves break or get mis-shapen from shuffling though, so I can't really say that they're incredibly durable. Over all, they're not too expensive and work just fine.

[majikal]

I use KMC. Dragon Shields make my cards warp as though they are foils, and every pack of Ultra Pro sleeves I've bought within the last two years has been inside-out (the matte texture side has been inside the sleeve), leaving the majority of the sleeves unplayable.

[Some Guy]

the old original 100ct yanonman copper sleeves.

[sunshine]

Yanoman Gunmetals, Ultra pro sleeves with the Magic back, or anything black with a matte finish. That's generally what I stick to.

[Raptor]

I personally use Ultra-pro.
IN tournaments, my hands get sweath and dragon shields tend to stick together and it starts being pretty hard shuffling.

[Bardo]

KMC. Yanoman Gunmetal were the best, but I they've gone out of business or something equally bad.

Edit - These puppies: http://www.gundamstoreandmore.com/yan94918.html

And KMC: http://www.kmcsleeves.com/

[jrsthethird]

So for KMC, would you suggest Matte or Super? I started seeing these at my local store but haven't bought any since I have a stockpile of Ultra-Pros, but I'm finding that Ultra-Pros can be really shitty sometimes and I wanted to pick up a new pack of sleeves for Columbus.

[Malchar]

I like matte because they're not as shiny.

[Sevryn]

I use ultra pro, and I wouldn't recommend them. The corners have a tendency to bend and the sides are uneven sleeve to sleeve, so it can look like cards are marked. They also get dirty quickly.

[jazzykat]

KMC. Yanoman Gunmetal were the best, but I they've gone out of business or something equally bad.

Edit - These puppies: http://www.gundamstoreandmore.com/yan94918.html


I bought a couple thousand about 7 years ago. They are the best!

[miko]

I have a couple of old (3-4 years I suppose) purple-colored Dragonshields at home. I use Perfect Size and those Dragonshields. This combination seems to be made for each other. It's too bad Dragonshields quality decreased.

Also tried out KMC orange and matte blue. The orange ones usually split every second game. The matte ones are OK but not too easy to shuffle.

So I think I will stick to my purple Dragonshields. I would not recommend buying white ones though, because they do not last too long.

A friend of mine uses KMC matte black and perfect size. He is pretty satisfied with them but always wonders why those purple Dragonshields shuffle that good

[bakofried]

I've heard something about doubling up on KMC sleeves, like putting matte's in supers or something like that. Figured this would be the place for clarification.

[UrDraco]

The doubling up of sleeves is best done with the KMC perfect fits inside of almost anything else. I prefer KMC perfect fit inside of Dragon shields for my vintage deck. The only downside is finding a deck box big enough as it makes your deck about 20-30% thicker.

[Penguinizer]

I find that the Dragon Shield deckboxes are big enough, at least for a double-sleeved 60 card deck and SB. I've currently got a 105 card Highlander (normal sleeved though) and there's still more than a centimeter of space. They're also made from hard plastic, so they shouldn't break immediately.

[ryO!]

KMC black Matte + KMC perfect size for all my decks
hard to shuffle but last long Larg deck though ... Needs 1 box for deck and 1 for the side

[coraz86]

I have a set of red Ultra Pros that I bought in 1999 that are still going strong. They're too nicked up to use for a GP or anything, but they're still good for FNM and other local fare.

Remember when buying shiny sleeves that silver and gold are not allowed in formal tournaments for fear that one can cheat using their reflective surfaces; I don't know if that's an issue with other gloss sleeves, but I stick with matte just to be safe.

On a lighter note, decorative sleeves (http://www.trollandtoad.com/products/search.php?searchmode=basic&search_words=rtfc&search_category=483&Image1.x=0&Image1.y=0) are always fun.

[sauce]

KMC Matte Dark Blue by far the best quality. They are better than the KMC Matte Black by quite a margin.
After that I prefer the Dragon shields Pink and then Dragon shields Black and Gold.

[paK0]

Kmc Matte Blue. Use it quite some time now and was never dissatisfied with them. I don't use Perfect Size anymore, I hate shuffling big decks.

[EssKay]

KMC Matte Black.

I tried some Dragon Shields about a year ago and didn't have issues with breakage, but they come out of the box with all the corners warped down, which makes them tougher to shuffle and causes corners to get bent. They also felt like they were cut bigger than the KMCs, and just seemed a bit loose and clunky. Worst of all, after one small tournament they were so scuffed up that you could tell the difference between my deck and sideboard from across the room. Matte finish is way better because the difference between heavily played sleeves and newer ones isn't as huge, so you don't have to worry about re-sleeving the entire deck if just one breaks.

[kusumoto]

KMC Matte sleeves don't seem to shuffle as nicely as KMC Super sleeves do. I have had less splits with supers. That being said, they are shiny.

I did get a box of Ultra Pro sleeves at a shop once that are plain matte white. They shuffle brilliantly. I find that strange, as Ultra Pro are usually crap.

Max Protect 'tournament sleeves' are a joke.

[Aleksandr]

KMC are crap like never, I destroyed ten of them in fourteen days, they don't glide.
Anything else is crap nonetheless, the only sleeves I somehow like are UltraPro Textured Granite... not that they has same backs all the time, of course. Because, you know... it's a rocket science to make sleeves and we don't live in 21 century.

:rolleyes:

[Wargoos]

I desperately tried to find sleeves that work best for me over the last few months.
Trying: Dragon Shields (all except the brown ones), UltraPro whites, black, blue and yellow, KMC (all matte ) Black, Blue and Red.
The red and black KMC's tend to get that dirty look fast and the red ones especially are getting ripped faster than other KMC's.
Blue work fine, are good to shuffle and stay clean for awhile.

UltraPro white, black and blue get dirty fast and the corners are bending too strong, although they stay clean longer than the KMCs.
Yellows are actually great. The shuffling meter says mediocre, but the sleeves don't rip and stay quite clean. (I use those for a foil dredgedeck)

Dragon Shields are great but as some said the quality is degenerating. The pink shields bhought a year or so ago go still strong. Shuffling is A+ but they got some unclean look (although they don't look dirty or something). I use those for various decks and am very satisfied with those. Gold Dragon shields don't work for me as sleeves from 3 out of 3 boxes I bhought are all miscut and vary in length :(
The other ones are mediocre in all other categories and therefore are solid sleeves.

In short: Usually Pink Dragons and Yellow Ultra Pros for my dredgedeck.

[cdr]

If you want to buy sleeves in bulk to standardize on one type, I recommend UltraPro Raven Black, or if you want color, the ziplock UltraPros, which come in blue/green/gray/etc.

Raven Black is very sturdy, shuffles well, and doesn't show wear much. The quality seems to be more consistent than the average UltraPros, though you will still get occasional packs with bad cuts or off-color. The ziplock UltraPros that I've had have also been very consistent in quality, and they're quite inexpensive.

I recommend against other types of UltraPros, and I recommend against Dragon Shields.

[dahcmai]

I've tried Dragon Shields, KMC, Ultra Pro, and a few off brands and by far the best I have seen is the KMC's. I use the Super Blue now, but I have to admit the Green is actually better. I just don't like Green much. They last forever and it's rare to get ones that split on you. Some of mine are probably from sleeves first came out still.

KMC is the best, then I would choose Dragon Shields, then Ultra Pro. Most of the other brands tend to be pretty cheap crap. Get KMC perfit fits and then regular KMC sleeves for sleeving up stuff like power and beta duals. It makes them a little thicker, but definitely the best you are going to get.

[Svenanole]

can i get a pack of protectors with a playing card back to them?

[oldbsturgeon]

I have been enjoying the ultrapro japanese line in green. A store near me carries them and I have those on a deck with perfect size underneath and the deck is thinner than trying that with KMC matte sleeves.
I had like 10 packs of those and was using those exclusively but I may convert to these green sleeves.
I also bought some of those Yanoman gunmetal sleeves and I found them to be only okay, but the deck divider that came with it is fantastic.

[Raptor]

Does anyone who sweats a lot by his hands have found good sleeves for that matter ?
I always need to buy new pack after 2-3 weeks because the plastic all stick together. I've found that dragonshields (well, at least Purple ones) are the worst for that problem and that ultrapro with matte texture are not too bad.

[goobafish]

Does anyone who sweats a lot by his hands have found good sleeves for that matter ?
I always need to buy new pack after 2-3 weeks because the plastic all stick together. I've found that dragonshields (well, at least Purple ones) are the worst for that problem and that ultrapro with matte texture are not too bad.

Ultra Pro Raven Blacks. They do not stick, they last fairly well, and they shuffle extremelly well even when you have sweaty hands. The only issue I have had with recent batches is that they are prone to splitting, and if you arent careful they can damage your cards (like my foil wasteland :().

[Zappa]

I used to use Ultra Pro and when I needed a new sleeve, I decided to try out Dragon Shields, and after a couple of months, I notice that the sleeves are in a much better condition. So I started using dragon shields the most, but I heard talks about KMC sleeves, it seems like theyre on par with Dragon Shields but the "MAT" sleeves just feels a lot nicer.

However, lately I am seeing ultra pro having some sleeves that's pretty similar to KMC, but I don't know anything about those. I also saw a new stuff called metal rose, I don't know anything about it either. Those that have tried it, let me know how they are. Though I kinda wish the metal rose, came with a black color (non-glossy) with a white/silver design lol.

[majikal]

I also saw a new stuff called metal rose, I don't know anything about it either. Those that have tried it, let me know how they are. Though I kinda wish the metal rose, came with a black color (non-glossy) with a white/silver design lol.
The Metal Rose sleeves are made by KMC and are on par with the Supers. However, the blue ones are metallic and reflective, and you can very clearly see the reflection of your card faces on them, so I would steer clear of that color. The green ones and the yellow ones are fine though. I'm not sure if they make black or not.

[Dilettante]

I still use Yanoman Shine Blue for my tourney decks, but I only have a limited supply of them since they aren't made anymore. Otherwise, First Class transparent green or blue for better conditioned cards, but if there are differences, I'll have to revert to Dragon Shields.

[the Thin White Duke]

The KMC sleeves are good although they seem to scratch easily. I have also been a big fan of Dragon Shield, but to echo previous posters the recent batch of sleeves are cut different from the older sleeves I have. I've had to sort through all the white Dragon Shields because there are some horrible mismatches in size.

[GreenHornet]

One of my local game shops started carrying Legion sleeves. They seem pretty tough. Has anyone had any experience with them?

[EssKay]

Those of you who have problems with sleeves breaking, how do you shuffle? I've broken maybe 3 sleeves ever, going all the way back to the original black ultra pros. I never riffle shuffle, I always weave shuffle or pile shuffle, and it's never been an issue.

[cdr]

If you "side" shuffle and the side seam on the sleeves is weak at all, the seam is eventually going to split open from the constant impact. Thicker sleeves like most UltraPros are bad for that, and especially fancier sleeves with multiple layers of plastic.

[Ziilot]

I've found Ultra Pro Japanese (White) best sleeves that I've used. Original Ultra Pro's and Dragonshields are very good too, though there are differences between different colors. I have never liked KMC sleeves, they tend to stick together easily and are difficult to shuffle.

[Purgatory]

Anything black and matte is fine for me, usually Ultra Pros. I like how they look, how the cards look in them and how they don't stick together at all.

Me and a few other people discussed this at the latest tournament I was at, and ideally, for any sleeve making company, a pack of sleeves should only hold up to the point that people may consider them durable, but then break, so they can sell more product - quite a difficult thing to balance. For you economists, I'd say the terms "planned obsolesence" and "percieved obsolesence" are relevant here.

[mossivo1986]

I have noticed that dragon shields tend to shuffle bad when theres alot of humidity mixed with sweaty hands. I go with gold DS and an all blue playmat. Ive tried the supers in DS and I didn't like the thickness. It makes for a more difficult time shuffling and I spent more time caring about my individual cards then I did actually playing the game. That might not make much sense but thats just me you know.

[Frid]

I love japanese ultra pros. Most people say they're the same sleeves as kcm super series, but they have slight differences and overall have performed better for me. Unfortunately they are sold out everywhere, which is really a pain in the ass because they are the best sleeves I ever used in my 8 years of competitive play...

[markbris]

I love japanese ultra pros. Most people say they're the same sleeves as kcm super series, but they have slight differences and overall have performed better for me. Unfortunately they are sold out everywhere, which is really a pain in the ass because they are the best sleeves I ever used in my 8 years of competitive play...

Tacosnape recommended japanese ultra pros to me and i bought some for scg atlanta. I liked them alot, although the red ones I used were somewhat see thru so you could make out the magic symbol on the backs of the cards. So I'll be getting some black ones or somethin where that won't be a problem.

[(nameless one)]

I love japanese ultra pros. Most people say they're the same sleeves as kcm super series, but they have slight differences and overall have performed better for me. Unfortunately they are sold out everywhere, which is really a pain in the ass because they are the best sleeves I ever used in my 8 years of competitive play...

Thats what I used too. I have been using them since I started playing competitive Legacy. Theyre good quality. The only thing about them is that you cant casino shuffle them :(

[Plague Sliver]

Has Dragon Shield gone out of business?
It hasn't affected availability in the Vancouver, BC area any but apparently there are shortages elsewhere. I'm a fan of the blue/pink Dragon Shields myself.

Older Ultra Pro is also quite durable, and a solid choice.

[markbris]

Thats what I used too. I have been using them since I started playing competitive Legacy. Theyre good quality. The only thing about them is that you cant casino shuffle them :(

Also I ordered them from ebay very easily for a good price.

[keys]

+1 vote for KMC perfect fits (optional) inside KMC matte series (black or dark blue) sleeves

[Frid]

Also I ordered them from ebay very easily for a good price.

Right, I just meant black ones, which where the ones I used. Indeed in ebay you can find any japanese ultra pros except those, but because I prefer my sleeves to be black over their quality I am using now regular black ultra pros or KMC, which are probably worse than jap nonblack ultra pros (I don't know, never used them). But that's just me, if jap nonblacks are the same quality as black ones I would still recommend them over any other sleeves.

[Zappa]

Help! I don't know if this is okay to post as it may be some what off topic, or maybe not.

I have some a deck, where most of the cards are signed and is in foil. While the cards themselves aren't very expensive, to me however, they hold a great value. I put them on KMC's perfect fit sleeves and some sleeves that I use it's practically impossible trying to put the said perfect fit sleeved card onto that sleeve. Trying hard to squeeze/slide them inside but failing to do so. Even though the sleeves are all the exact same size. Just for some reason some sleeves they go in nice and easy without and problems, other sleeves goes in but requires a bit of effort, while some even though they're still the same size does not go in at all.

I would like to keep that deck double sleeved if possible... but if its one of those that i'll be struggling to fit in, it would cause some troubles, coz I usually bring some spare sleeves hen I am going to a tournament, just in case, but I cannot spend that much time trying to sleeve. The card stores also would not allow you to return the sleeves once you've open them. So I am really unsure which sleeves the perfect fit sleeves, is really perfect fit for.

I mean I could but some KMC sleeves, and KMC's perfect fit sleeves would go in nice and easy. Once those sleeves gets worn out, I would buy another KMC sleeves, but this time trying a different brand, spending like 8 bucks on the sleeves and then realizing that those sleeves are no good, as the perfect fit sleeves are having difficulty going in. So, I basically wasted 8 bucks on sleeves, and card stores wont let you return them as theyve already been opened, even if you ere sleeving it right in front of them too.

It seems like even though all the sleeves for each brands are all same size, some seems perfect for the perfect fit sleeves, while some are not. Anyone have any recommendation regarding these "perfect fit sleeves"?

[practical joke]

I use some foreign perfect fit sleeves for my tournament decks as well, I prefer the increase of thickness in the cards and somehow it makes my normal sleeves break a lot less. ( might be coincidence)

Sometimes a perfect fit sleeved card has issues getting in a normal sleeves. What I do is the following:

Stick the card in partially, before it starts struggling, the perfect fit sleeves might stay up while the card is sliding down. annoying
I place my finger on the back of the card but inside the normal sleeve between the card and the normal sleeve and push the card down. This way the perfect fit sleeves won't slide up. That way it makes a fit anyways.

I have never had issues where a perfect fit sleeved card wou'ldn't fit in a normal one. ( can't name the brand since it's asian and a friend orders them for me)

[(nameless one)]

I am guessing that that asian brand is the japanese ultra-pro?

[Zappa]

Stick the card in partially, before it starts struggling, the perfect fit sleeves might stay up while the card is sliding down. annoying
I place my finger on the back of the card but inside the normal sleeve between the card and the normal sleeve and push the card down. This way the perfect fit sleeves won't slide up. That way it makes a fit anyways.

That is what I try to do as well, but it gets annoying when you get halfway through where the card would slide in but the perfect fit wouldn't. I notice that the inside of some sleeves feels different which makes this "sticky" feel to it when trying to get the perfect fit in, which is when its really difficult and I stopped trying to bother.

Ive just been reusing my sets of perfect fit since i bought a couple, and they were of asian/foriegn brand since it has a bunch of japanese (?) characters on it. The store owner called the sleevers and stuff I bought back then as players choice, and another calls them KMC, dunno if they are the same type. But anyway, it seems like the inside feel of the sleeves, depending on the brand, makes the sleeves hard to go in.

[denial]

Tacosnape recommended japanese ultra pros to me and i bought some for scg atlanta. I liked them alot, although the red ones I used were somewhat see thru so you could make out the magic symbol on the backs of the cards. So I'll be getting some black ones or somethin where that won't be a problem.

whats the difference between ultra pro and japanese ultra pro ?

[ryO!]

Help! I don't know if this is okay to post as it may be some what off topic, or maybe not.

I have some a deck, where most of the cards are signed and is in foil. While the cards themselves aren't very expensive, to me however, they hold a great value. I put them on KMC's perfect fit sleeves and some sleeves that I use it's practically impossible trying to put the said perfect fit sleeved card onto that sleeve. Trying hard to squeeze/slide them inside but failing to do so. Even though the sleeves are all the exact same size. Just for some reason some sleeves they go in nice and easy without and problems, other sleeves goes in but requires a bit of effort, while some even though they're still the same size does not go in at all.

I would like to keep that deck double sleeved if possible... but if its one of those that i'll be struggling to fit in, it would cause some troubles, coz I usually bring some spare sleeves hen I am going to a tournament, just in case, but I cannot spend that much time trying to sleeve. The card stores also would not allow you to return the sleeves once you've open them. So I am really unsure which sleeves the perfect fit sleeves, is really perfect fit for.

I mean I could but some KMC sleeves, and KMC's perfect fit sleeves would go in nice and easy. Once those sleeves gets worn out, I would buy another KMC sleeves, but this time trying a different brand, spending like 8 bucks on the sleeves and then realizing that those sleeves are no good, as the perfect fit sleeves are having difficulty going in. So, I basically wasted 8 bucks on sleeves, and card stores wont let you return them as theyve already been opened, even if you ere sleeving it right in front of them too.

It seems like even though all the sleeves for each brands are all same size, some seems perfect for the perfect fit sleeves, while some are not. Anyone have any recommendation regarding these "perfect fit sleeves"?

it happened to me several times as well (KMC perfect size + KMC matte black)
sometime the perfect size isn't that "perfect"
other time the KMC matte are too "perfect"
either ways it makes it really hard and annoying to sleeve
what i do ... i tear the sleeve into several pieces due to accumulatd anger !
and i start again with a new one
it happens like 0/3 per packs so i guess it s ok

one other time a 80 pack of KMC matte black were completely see through ... odd but happens
i d still stick to kmc anyway

[oldbsturgeon]

whats the difference between ultra pro and japanese ultra pro ?

Based on what the package says, they are Japanese style sleeves, and I find them similar to the KMC super series.

As for the perfect size sleeves, I have bought many packs of these and the good thing is you should ever really have to replace those, only the outer ones. I bought a huge lot once of KMC matte black and while they do scratch I rarely got those little nail mark dings in them that happens all the time with ultra pro.
While I do like the Japanese Ultra Pro, I noticed they have some of those dings now too, and I hate that. I try to avoid that as much as possible by shuffling with the open sleeve sides down and using the corners closest to the inside of my hand to shuffle. It usually works but the main reason is that I have no idea how to do a rifle shuffle. I have tried and usually just drop the cards.

[markbris]

whats the difference between ultra pro and japanese ultra pro ?

For one the japanese ones don't have the little shiny circle ultra pro symbol. I was just told they were better quality. In comparin them to my older ultra pros just now, they seem smoother all around especially on the back.

[(nameless one)]

For one the japanese ones don't have the little shiny circle ultra pro symbol. I was just told they were better quality. In comparin them to my older ultra pros just now, they seem smoother all around especially on the back.

I also find the Japanese ones to be thinner and with the lighter colors, the back is translucent.

[markbris]

[QUOTE=(nameless one);460223 with the lighter colors, the back is translucent.[/QUOTE]

Yea I mentioned this a few posts back, I used red ones at the Atlanta 5k and you could def make out the magic symbols on the backs.

[Justin]

I had all my decks sleeved up in Ultra Pros about 4-5 years ago. By and large, they were very durrable and I was very satisfied with them. Very few of the sleeves busted. I recently decdied to replace my decks because they were old and had gotten quite dirty over the years. I went with Ultra Pro again because they were good to me in the past, but I've been very disappointed. In particular, the green, yellow, and orange sleeves that I purchased have been tearing quite easily. It always seems to be on the upper right side of the card. I also bought white, black, and red versions of new Ultra Pros and have had no problems with them. The annoying thing is that I attended a recent Legacy tourney with the green sleaves and I had about 15 of the bust after only three matches. I dropped after a 1-2 start, when I might have otherwise stayed in because of the sleeve problem. This also threw me completely off my game during play.

[keys]

Sorry to reanimate this thread but I just have to get some new opinions on the topic. Ever since KMC discontinued their 100 sleeve packs and started selling packs of 80, quality changed completely. I was very partial to the Matte Black and Blue "tournament" sleeves. They fit double sleeved cards w/perfect fits, shuffled well, were reasonably durable, and uniform in size.

Now, the 80 pack sleeves must have shrunk in size because it's very difficult to insert double sleeved cards in them on the first try. The backs also feel thinner and tend to have more of a bend to them. Ugh.

Feeling adventurous, I ordered two packs of "The Hardest Sleeves" from the website NicofromTokyo.com. The seller had promoted these sleeves on MTGSalv forums and a few there recommended them. I was extremely disappointed when they finally arrived. Not cut evenly, do not shuffle well, and don't fit cards with KMC perfect fits, and the worst overall construction I've ever seen. About the only thing going for them is the fact that they are "harder" than other sleeves.

Next I got my hands on a box of Ultra Pro sleeves (with the alternate art Mox Diamond box). Overall, pretty happy. They're thicker than I normally like, but still shuffle well. Feel very sturdy and cut evenly. Thinking that all the newer art-back sleeves from Ultra Pro would be similar, I went and bought some with the original black lotus art. Unfortunately, these have a very sticky/rough back that makes shuffling difficult, reminiscent of some "graphite" Ultra Pro sleeves I purchased a while back and hated. Is there any method to this madness?

Now I'm out of ideas. I've heard decent things about Dragon Shields, but the fact they they are not uniform in size from pack to pack turns me off. That, and the $9.99 price tag. I used Ultra Pro (solid color, matte back) a little while ago but they were too fragile, and picked up dirt like no other. The coarse feeling of the back does prevent cards from slipping, but it's not for everyone.

Is there ANY brand out there that consistently produces solid, tournament quality sleeves that are easy to use with KMC perfect fits? What do people with pimped out decks use?

[Shimi]

Now I'm out of ideas. I've heard decent things about Dragon Shields, but the fact they they are not uniform in size from pack to pack turns me off. That, and the $9.99 price tag.

It is true(got 4 packs , 3 well cut but 1 shorter) , but they are the BEST sleeves , shuffle well , resistant , great colors and fit very well with KMC perfect size if they are well cut.The price is not a problem since you are buying a shield that resist more than twice the others , here in brazil it is very dificult to find and cost like 15U$ each pack but since I move to them I did not look back.
Another good point is that my hands become very sweaty during tournaments so KMC(even MAT) , Ultra Pro and others are horrible cause I cannot shuffle or search my deck , Dragon Shields solved this problem.

PS:I just keep my legacy decks at well cut dragon shields and use the shorter ones for draft or archived stamples.

[socialite]

I use KMC Perfect Fit inside a KMC Mat Brown.

[luckme10]

Card sleeves? I don't understand the need for card sleeves. Real men play without sleeves; and we rip the cards up so they can't come back from the graveyard!

In all seriousness, don't recomend the red Dragon Shields. They get dirty really easily and are prone to sticking.

[keys]

I use KMC Perfect Fit inside a KMC Mat Brown.

I have matte brown too. The material is different than the other "matte" colors. I don't feel like they shuffle as well... kind of sticky texture on the back compared to the others. But they fit perfect-fits at least.

[dahcmai]

I still buy the 100 count KMC's from Ebay and other sites. You can still get them.

[mossivo1986]

I had all my decks sleeved up in Ultra Pros about 4-5 years ago. By and large, they were very durrable and I was very satisfied with them. Very few of the sleeves busted. I recently decdied to replace my decks because they were old and had gotten quite dirty over the years. I went with Ultra Pro again because they were good to me in the past, but I've been very disappointed. In particular, the green, yellow, and orange sleeves that I purchased have been tearing quite easily. It always seems to be on the upper right side of the card. I also bought white, black, and red versions of new Ultra Pros and have had no problems with them. The annoying thing is that I attended a recent Legacy tourney with the green sleaves and I had about 15 of the bust after only three matches. I dropped after a 1-2 start, when I might have otherwise stayed in because of the sleeve problem. This also threw me completely off my game during play.

Thats like the worst excuse i've ever heard. My sleeves put me on tilt.

[keys]

I still buy the 100 count KMC's from Ebay and other sites. You can still get them.

Hmmm I guess I never really looked very hard.... do you buy the 100 "super" sleeves still as well or just the "mat" version? Thanks for the tip ;)

[Julian23]

After using KMC Perfect Size in KMC Matt Black I switched to KMC Perfectt Size in Dragon Shields. KMC Matt Black (and the like) just were to fragile and often tore open at the bottom.

[Justin]

Thats like the worst excuse i've ever heard. My sleeves put me on tilt.

I sincerely doubt that's the worst excuse that you've heard :) It was true, though, and I was still on tilt when I did my post. Since that time, I went to Dragon Shield sleeves and have been pretty happy with them. They don't bust and I haven't had problems with the size difference that others have complained about. Dragon Shield seems like a solid option for new sleaves. We'll see if I still like them in a when they get older, though. I hope they won't stick together too much.

[keys]

One seller on ebay has 4 packs in stock: http://cgi.ebay.com/KMC-Japanese-Sleeves-STANDARD-100-Count-MAT-Dark-Blue-/200405406949?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ea917d4e5#ht_4421wt_905

$6 shipping though :(

All the stores I contacted online that say they have them in stock just haven't updated their website in years.

Maybe I'll just go with Dragon Shields.

[phonics]

i actually still use my ultrapros from 10 years ago and they are way better than what they produce now.

in terms of recent sleeves i like the Japanese ultrapros the best, they are really durable and feel a lot thicker than anything else ive ever tried. kmc ultra fit inside them and you are good to go, i dont even think its possible to split them unless you intentionally try

[dan who?]

I've used and still use Ultra Pros and KMC 100pack sleeves as they've lasted me a long time now but recently I decided to try Legion Sleeves by Legion Events. The sleeves I've picked up feel like my KMC sleeves but seem to be a little longer like the ultra pro sleeves I own. So far I like them a lot and have been using them instead of my other sleeves. They seem pretty durable and I haven't had any problems with them so far, has anyone else tried them?

[kiblast]

I've used and still use Ultra Pros and KMC 100pack sleeves as they've lasted me a long time now but recently I decided to try Legion Sleeves by Legion Events. The sleeves I've picked up feel like my KMC sleeves but seem to be a little longer like the ultra pro sleeves I own. So far I like them a lot and have been using them instead of my other sleeves. They seem pretty durable and I haven't had any problems with them so far, has anyone else tried them?

The Legion sleeves are the one with the acronym R.T.F.C. on their back, right? I'd like to know if someone has bad/good experience with em....

By the way...have you ever experienced excess of dirty on sleeves? like that greysh/brown dirt caused by sweat+dirty tables...
I hate when it happens, and the strange thing is that i have some KMC sleeves that NEVER got dirty (and they're emerald green, pretty bright, so the dirt should be visible) while i find loads of dirty spots on my yellow ultra pros and black ultra pros. And i always use playmat/ i'm a clean guy :)
All i can think is that Ultra pro's yellow are way stickier than KMC. Also i have used my green KMC for almost 1 year now (playing almost every day) and only one sleeve has split in half. I'll use KMC 100 pack for the rest of my life, best sleeves hands down.

http://cgi.ebay.com/KMC-80-CT-MTG-Sleeves-Deck-Protectors-SUPER-GREEN-/140405355524?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b0cfb404

those are the ones i'm using. KMC super green. Amazing colour too.

[dan who?]

The Legion sleeves are the one with the acronym R.T.F.C. on their back, right? I'd like to know if someone has bad/good experience with em....

By the way...have you ever experienced excess of dirty on sleeves? like that greysh/brown dirt caused by sweat+dirty tables...
I hate when it happens, and the strange thing is that i have some KMC sleeves that NEVER got dirty (and they're emerald green, pretty bright, so the dirt should be visible) while i find loads of dirty spots on my yellow ultra pros and black ultra pros. And i always use playmat/ i'm a clean guy :)
All i can think is that Ultra pro's yellow are way stickier than KMC. Also i have used my green KMC for almost 1 year now (playing almost every day) and only one sleeve has split in half. I'll use KMC 100 pack for the rest of my life, best sleeves hands down.

Yes they are the ones who make the RTFC sleeves. So far I haven't haven't really noticed any dirt or anything on the sleeves. I've only played with them for a little over a month though. I know what you're talking about as I've seen the dirt spots on my ultra pros and a little on my 100pack KMC Super orange sleeves though they don't seem to get as dirty as the ultra pros.

http://legionevents.com/supplies

They have just plain colors as well and I've been using the green ones from them. I went to Pastimes and saw they were carrying them so I decided to pick the sleeves up then. So far I like them a lot.

[kiblast]

nice! they're charging 60 USD to ship 80 sleeves to Europe! What a brilliant marketing.

[dan who?]

When I first read it I thought that was exactly what they're charging. I had to re-read the paragraph about shipping though because he says "International shipping please contact me before purchasing. Shipping international will be listed as $60. If you choose to click a purchase button without previously contacting me for a rate to your address, you will pay $60."

Of course there are a couple of online retailers like Troll and Toad, StarCity Games, and Channelfireball that are carrying them, not sure about other sites.

[kiblast]

When I first read it I thought that was exactly what they're charging. I had to re-read the paragraph about shipping though because he says "International shipping please contact me before purchasing. Shipping international will be listed as $60. If you choose to click a purchase button without previously contacting me for a rate to your address, you will pay $60."

Of course there are a couple of online retailers like Troll and Toad, StarCity Games, and Channelfireball that are carrying them, not sure about other sites.

Having to email someone to have 5$ of sleeves shipped, wait for the email response etc etc means that I'll probably buy from other online retailers such as the ones you mentioned; having an e-shop that makes foreign customers go buying the same things from other e-shops doesn't sound like a nice way to deal with your (potential) customers. Just sayin.

[dan who?]

I totally agree with you. I just wanted to point out that if you did want to buy straight from them you'd have to e-mail them for a shipping quote. It seems like more and more stores are carrying their sleeves so that's one of the reasons why I picked them up. Legion Events is pretty well known at least around the Midwest Region for putting on good events so I felt confident in my purchase.

[keys]

They have just plain colors as well and I've been using the green ones from them. I went to Pastimes and saw they were carrying them so I decided to pick the sleeves up then. So far I like them a lot.

Do they fit cards with KMC perfect fits?

[dan who?]

I was able to fit my KMC perfect fits in these sleeves with relativeness ease. Not sure if it's a good thing but it seems a lot easier to fit them in these sleeves than in my KMC ones.

[kiblast]

Necro'ing to ask you infos about this sleeve.

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j446/TheKiblast/Image0011.jpg

On the left I scanned a normal Ultra Pro sleeve. On the right there is the sleeve I need info about. It's exactly 2 mm higher than the Ultra Pro one, and a bit more stiff. The backside has a glossy finish and it's uneven: like an horizontal waved texture (It's hard to explain).
Thanks for any info provided.

[Bokonon]

So yesterday I stopped by my LGS and found they had started carrying the Max Protection Tournament sleeves, so I picked a pack of the blue ones up out of curiosity. The first thing I noticed is that they feel extremely thick and solid, and fit a little more snugly around my cards than Ultra Pro/KMC. I was surprised by how smoothly they shuffled out of the box considering their thickness, but haven't put them through enough to know how they last.

Looking across both here and MTGS's sleeves thread, the only thing I ever hear about them is that they're bad or "a joke" for some reason, but no one ever says why. Anyone had any longer term experience with these guys and can shed some light about why they're bad? The pack I got was extremely consistently cut and seems decently made.

[Arew]

Has anyone noticed that KMC Perfect Fit sleeves seem to get dirty fairly quickly? Does anyone know what causes this? Or is it normal?

[Shimi]

Anyone use New Pro Matte - Ultra Pro Sleeves?? One friend told me they are pretty good to shuffle but I'm afraid they aren't resistent enought..

[Beatusnox]

Im using Legions R.T.F.C. sleeves and so far, they are great for me, they shuffle well, and protect like a bullet proof vest.

[obituary 95]

I have actually just picked up some of the new ultra pro sleeves and they are quite nice to shuffle . but i do have some complaints with the sleeves. the first is that they don't seem rigid enough and can easily be bent and leave deep crease marks in the sleeves . they can also get tiny bends at the corners of the sleeves and can make it look like you are marking cards. but i did get the green sleeves so maybe if someone got a darker color they might not notice these things . but i have not broke a sleeve yet which is a good thing

[r3dd09]

being a big sleeve person. i've found out that

Dragonshield are the best * for me* i've had some gold ones last about 5-6 years. some colors blow out more than others

kmc sleeves are nice

ultra pros new- blow out a lot. older - don't blow out as much.



for just locals: decks that i'm keeping for awhile, or plan to. I sleeve up in dragonshield as to protect my investment
temp decks = kmc/ultrapro
big events = ultra pro because how inexpensive they are.

[Beatusnox]

To be honest, I have had some issues with Dragon Shields before.

Had some cards that got their faced messed up by the plastic of the sleeve. Also had my LGS owner experience the same thing.

[Malchar]

To keep sleeves clean, I find that the brand doesn't matter. You just have to wash your hands before playing and always use a play mat. This can save you lots of hassle as you won't have to replace your sleeves as often. Alternatively, if you don't want to do that, then just get the cheapest sleeves you can find and keep replacing them when they're too dirty.

[Alexeezay]

I've made the experience that Dragonshield sleeves get much more dirty & faster dirty as others.
While KMCs feel good to shuffle and play with, they look used/old/damaged really fast, I guess it's because of my hard shuffling.
In the end Ultra Pros turned out to be the best for me because they stay clean (nice for shiny foils) & don't suffer from my shuffling.
But I really dislike the new matte look of Ultra Pro sleeves...the old metallic and shiny ones looked much better in my opinion

[Zoomer3989]

Two questions:

1. Does anyone have issues with the corners of their Dragonshields? Mine seem to curl up at the end and it makes it difficult for me to shuffle since I like to side-cut pretty much exclusively.

2. Does anyone know if certain Ultra-Pro colors are heavier or more rigid then Dragonshields? I'm looking for heavier sleeves I'd be more comfortable putting a Legacy deck in, and even Dragonshields don't always feel heavy enough. Any suggestions?

[death]

Use KMC Matte. They are the most durable.

[IsThisACatInAHat?]

So yesterday I stopped by my LGS and found they had started carrying the Max Protection Tournament sleeves, so I picked a pack of the blue ones up out of curiosity...the only thing I ever hear about them is that they're bad or "a joke" for some reason, but no one ever says why. Anyone had any longer term experience with these guys and can shed some light about why they're bad?
Max Protections are just about the absolute worst, just barely beating out Ultra Pros with the mana symbols on them. The entire deck will begin to split half way through a 7-round tournament at the latest. I've never played a whole tournament without multiple sleeves splitting on me, where the rest all had ruptured corners (as in, literally split in half and unshuffle-able, if they weren't considered marked). I can only imagine what would've happened if I'm not an extremely delicate shuffler to begin with. The deck boxes are shoddily made too, but at least they're big and poofy unlike the thin plastic Ultra Pro cases. Unfortunately, despite how poorly they're often cut, Dragon Shields really are the most durable sleeves. I still buy KMCs because I like the way they feel, but Dragon Shields are much, much higher quality.

[stasis]

But I really dislike the new matte look of Ultra Pro sleeves...the old metallic and shiny ones looked much better in my opinion

I was at GP in Gøteborg and i sleeved my seal deck with a old unused box of shiny black ultra pro, in match 3 or 4 a judge told me to resleeve my deck because it was to shiny and said it could be used to cheat.

[Raindown]

I'd thought I would throw up my little Ultra Pro Matte vs. KMC Matte into the mix. I have been a long time user of Ultra Pro Matte, in numerous colors. But everyone kept giving good reviews of the KMC Mattes, so I bought 5 packs and sleeved up one of my legacy decks. Here is what I noticed.

Ultra Pro Mattes:
Very easy to shuffle as there is good spacing between the cards, probably due to the more textured back. Not as spot on in fit as the KMCs but that doesn't appear to cause any issues. Key thing here is ease of shuffling, probably the area of play that can cause the most wear. Overall I really like them, but open to better sleeves, if there was any.

KMC Mattes:
Out of the pack I really liked the feel and fit on the cards. Clear window and smooth back, nice. Then it came time to shuffle (I pile shuffle then split the deck and shuffle into each other). Since the back is smooth and not textured, the cards sit really close together. This makes it really hard to simply split the deck and mush the two halfs together. I have to make a conscious effort to hold the cards so they space out. I also have to go more corner first then simply setting the two half on each other. Kinda bummed.

Overall: I'll probably use up the 4 remaining KMC packs, but I noticed I can see the card outline on the back, not good. Also the Ultra Pros remain easy to shuffle as the KMCs seem to get harder to shuffle. I like the feel of the KMC a lot but the shuffle issue bothers me, especially for my legacy decks. Perhaps my expectations were too high. Either way the next sleeve order will be for more Ultra Pro Mattes, Sunset Pink.

[kiblast]

So, does anybody have some clue on the sleeves I asked info about a while back?

Here. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16971-MTG-Sleeves&p=529723&viewfull=1#post529723)

Summarizing: Stiffer than a normal KMC or Ultra Pro Sleeve, about 2 mm higher than U.P., No hologram or logos. Corrugated backside.Glossy finish.

Please help me, I feel those are the best sleeves I ever got my hands on. But I only own 5 so I absolutely want some packs.

[JACO]

I've used a ton of different sleeves by a ton of different manufacturers, and there are only two types I would buy as of today.
1) Dragonshields - These are long, durable, and eminently shuffleable. I stick with White and Black for best success
2) Ultra Pro PRO-MATTE - All of the other Ultra Pro sleeves are basically garbage, and a waste of money. These are more form fitting than any other sleeves on the market (by design), are laser cut for uniformity (unlike most sleeves, which are die cut, including all of the other Ultra Pros), and shuffle extremely well. They don't get dirty as fast due to the matte nature (oils on your hands tend to stick to glossy sleeves easier, and then pick up dirt as a result). These are also much more affordable than KMC Matte sleeves, which I don't think shuffle as easily.

Pretty much all of the sleeves I buy from this point forward will be Ultra Pro PRO-MATTE until something better comes along.

[Raindown]

2) Ultra Pro PRO-MATTE -

When did these come out? I don't remember seeing that packaging. Are they just the usual UP matte ones rebranded? It seems like they sell for the same price.

[JACO]

When did these come out? I don't remember seeing that packaging. Are they just the usual UP matte ones rebranded? It seems like they sell for the same price.They are not rebranded anything. They are slightly smaller, tighter dimensions than the regular ones, and are laser cut for uniformity (all the rest are die cut, which is why there are more sleeve length differences, little random plastic strand hanging off, etc.)

As far as I know, they came out a couple of months ago and have been selling very briskly from most distributors. The ones I talked to all said they were shorted on their orders from Ultra Pro because of demand, so it sounds like they are doing well. The available colors are black, white, blue, and red, and possibly brown if I remember correctly. I'll be selling them on MOTL soon. ;)

[leegoo]

(In advance, sorry if this has been asked before, didn't see anything on it)

I'm trying to figure out what sleeves I have. While digging in an old box of cards I found a Mirroden standard era Mind's Desire deck in some very strange sleeves I had forgotten about. They are extremely thin (a 60 card deck is about 3/4 the height of a 60 card in Ultra Pro's) with a solid back and diamond'ish (almost kaleidoscope) effect on the front. They have no markings to distinguish what brand they are, and I can't for the life of me remember where I bought them (not that it really matters, as that standard was years ago)

Anybody got any info on these guys? I'd love to have a couple of new packs.

[ryO!]

any one already had those problems with KMC Matte Black ?
i am fond of those but time to time you have problems like
*The back of the sleeve is translucent (lost a pack a 80) too thin or not black enough w/e
*The sleeve are so extremely tight that i can't even fit a card pefect sleeved in it (waste two packs of 80 ...)

i still think that kmc matte are the best but damn that's annoying ...

[death]

Anybody got any info on these guys? I'd love to have a couple of new packs.

They are called KMC Holographics, I had one of those long time ago.


any one already had those problems with KMC Matte Black ?

None so far. Where are you getting your stock?

[leegoo]

They are called KMC Holographics, I had one of those long time ago.




Awesome, thanks bunches!

[Sims]

any one already had those problems with KMC Matte Black ?
i am fond of those but time to time you have problems like
*The back of the sleeve is translucent (lost a pack a 80) too thin or not black enough w/e
*The sleeve are so extremely tight that i can't even fit a card pefect sleeved in it (waste two packs of 80 ...)

i still think that kmc matte are the best but damn that's annoying ...

I have noticed this issue with the new KMC Mattes, pretty much ever since they switched from the 100ct to 80cts, the quality on the matte blacks has decreased.

I still have good luck thus far with the Matte Reds and Browns, but i'm thinking of picking up a set of the Ultra Pro PRO-Mattes and giving them a spin.

[Raindown]

I have noticed this issue with the new KMC Mattes, pretty much ever since they switched from the 100ct to 80cts, the quality on the matte blacks has decreased.

I still have good luck thus far with the Matte Reds and Browns, but i'm thinking of picking up a set of the Ultra Pro PRO-Mattes and giving them a spin.

Try the Ultra-Pro PRO-Mattes. I just bought three packs. Much better than KMC mattes which I find difficult to shuffle after relatively limited play. To KMC's credit, the sleeves were spot on in size pack to pack. While there was some variance with the Ultra Pro PRO Mattes (from different packs, and not within a pack), enough that I had to re-sleeve some cards between three packs. But still superior to the KMCs in other respects. Currently it is a toss up for me between regular Ultra-Pros and their new PRO mattes. I'll be e-baying the 4 packs of KMC matte blue if anyone is interested.

[keys]

Ultra Pro PRO-MATTE

Are these big enough to fit cards with Perfect Fits?

[Raindown]

Are these big enough to fit cards with Perfect Fits?

According to the packaging, they (66mmx91mm) are slightly shorter than KMC Mattes (66mmx92mm) if you have some experience with those.

[Richard Cheese]

My main issue with the KMC Mattes are that the backs are still quite smooth, so they scuff up pretty easily. Unless you shuffle your sideboard in with your whole deck every time, it becomes easily distinguishable after just a handful of games. Anyone notice if the new Ultra Pro PRO-MATTES avoid this issue any better?

[Arsenal]

As a long time Dragon Shield user, I finally got sick of the insane amount of miscuts within the same pack. Also, they get dirty really, really fast. I switched over to KMC Matte and have been pleasantly surprised. Firm, solid feeling, the top lip is a bit shorter than I'd like, but it's a snug fit, so they won't slip out. Overall, very impressed by KMC Matte over Dragon Shield.

[Klazam]

Dragonshields for edh, ultra pro matte for legacy. Ultra pro mox diamond sleeves for standard.

The mox diamond sleeves are really good.

The reason why I use dragonshields for edh is because they are really hard to spilt.

Ultra pros for shuffling ease and great feel.

[Que]

I always prefer Dragonshield or my new favorites Player's Choice. Whatever is comfortable.

I actually don't like the matte sleeves. the white powdery look it gives the cards isn't too my liking.

[GGoober]

I've been displeased with KMC. I bought over 800 counts of sleeves O_O The super blacks and matte blacks all end up being quite bad. I think Super still last longer although they look all scratched up (at least consistently scratched up) where the Matt still crack on me and ends up picking up some dirt (mind you I play with clean hands and a playmat always).

I am pleased with the Mox Opal ultra Pro sleeves. Can anyone else testify to these? Do they actually last? I've been using them for 2 months now, no issues. I'm curious to get Ultra Pro matte. Are those really good as claimed here? Do they get scratched/collect dirt easily? I hear that they're easy to shuffle and that's pretty important for me since I want to get really slick with shuffling one day (I can do the Asian 5-pile-shuffle pretty fast now :P)

[mossivo1986]

I've had alot of luck with kmc matte's. When they are used a bit, they really feel good.

A couple of my buddys use the mox opal ultras. I've used them as well. I think they are as close to kmc's as you get. I think kmc matte's are the best.

The ultra pro matte's are cheap. They feel cheap, and look it.

[Exospaciac]

So, I plan on sleeving up an all-commons Cube that my friends and I just built (Legacy's just too damn expensive to get back in to... :( ), and I wanted some input on what kind of sleeves I should get. I don't want to spend a ton of money on sleeves for an all commons cube, but I want them to be good enough to where they won't split, bend or crease like crazy.
Also, does anyone know of where you can buy sleeves in bulk for cheap? We're gonna be buying probably around 700 or so, and the cheaper we can get them the better.

[r3dd09]

i got some ultrapro sleeves off of ebay for my common cube, didn't cost that much for sleeving it compared to dragonshield or kmc.

is it 700 including lands or not? either way, check ebay, they sell in 1000 lots, or you can get a certain amount of a color.

I ended up paying like 45 including shipping to sleeve mine i believe.

[phonics]

i think a display box of ultrapro contains 750 sleeves (15x50ct), but i dont know if they are all the same size (they seem to have 3 random lengths depending on the cut), and they probably split the most.

i think ultrapro promattes look pretty good and they arent nearly as expensive as kmc or dragonshields.

also has anyone tried japanese ultra pros? i got a pack about a year ago off of ebay not knowing there was a difference, but they are by far the thickest and most durable sleeves i have seen.

[plus_ten]

I have used KMCs, W Japanese Ultra Pros and W Player's Choice previously.

However, to create a full 'uniform' set of sleeves, I use Black Ultra Pro Matte with KMC perfect fits over high valued cards. This way I can swap cards between decks without de-sleeving. Also, the UP sleeves are really cheap, like 2~3USD per 100, so even if some break (I have had 3 broken sleeves out of around 800?).

The other sleeves I got were strong, but the white sleeves become dirty really quickly, esp. Japanese UPs. This could be because they are white. The Japanese UPs were also translucent, so I don't like it there.

[Koby]

As much as I enjoy Dragon Shields, not all colors are created equal. Red and Black Dragon Shields seems to be the most consistently cut among the lots, without having an extreme variance in length. They also seem to have well cut edges that prevent splitting or snagging when hand-over-hand shuffling.

I've experienced translucent sleeves with the Blue variety, and uneven edges on the Gold ones. I'm sticking to Red ones for now.

[Burr]

Anyone know of some quality sleeves that don't get marked easily? I have KMC super right now and have this one singly card in my deck with some kind of bend that keeps marking the sleeve its in (from the dirt contact on the sleeve). It's annoying to keep switching the sleeve and the card won't bend back (and it's dual so I don't have the resources to just replace it).

Any help please!

[raye]

What color sleeves have you been using? I find that white is by far the best at not getting marked due to imperfections on a card. I had/have the same issue with my Sapphire. In white sleeves, it really wasn't much of a problem since the card was causing the sleeve to whiten where the imperfection was.

I've used KMC Super White specifically for years. And I've been kind of stuck with white sleeves just because of this issue!


Anyone know of some quality sleeves that don't get marked easily? I have KMC super right now and have this one singly card in my deck with some kind of bend that keeps marking the sleeve its in (from the dirt contact on the sleeve). It's annoying to keep switching the sleeve and the card won't bend back (and it's dual so I don't have the resources to just replace it).

Any help please!

[Burr]

What color sleeves have you been using? I find that white is by far the best at not getting marked due to imperfections on a card. I had/have the same issue with my Sapphire. In white sleeves, it really wasn't much of a problem since the card was causing the sleeve to whiten where the imperfection was.

I've used KMC Super White specifically for years. And I've been kind of stuck with white sleeves just because of this issue!

Thanks, I've been using black. Just really like dark colored sleeves. Anyone have any other solutions to this problem with dark colored sleeves?

[Mordel]

I haven't been on here for a while, but was googling to see what people were saying about the Ultra-Pro Pro-Mattes.

I recently got some at a ptq and they were pretty sick actually. I generally just go with Ultra-Pros because they are cheap and plentiful. I have tried Player's Choice and KMC, but didn't really notice much of a difference to justify having to get colours that weren't black or pastel-pink (preferred colour/shades, obviously).

I was pretty impressed with the Pro-Mattes though. The corners didn't bend as badly as normal UP sleeves, with the matte backs and glossy fronts. There were little tiny splits, but that was after a pretty long day of opponents shuffling my deck and only three out of seventy-five cards were affected. With how I shuffle, time will tell how they do. I generally don't get much in the way of splitting and my biggest reason for replacing sleeves is scratches and those little random spots of shit that build-up on sleeves after about a week.

The most durable sleeves ever though are the ultra-pro ones from wayyyyy back that have the jester on them. I still have some for random casual formats and they're nutty. ALL glossy sleeves since ultra-pro switched to the boxes with the shield on them(quite a few moons past) have been crap. I especially hate the sleeves with art on them. I have had opponents who swear by ones with various types of art on the back, made by various companies and they have all had various degrees of shit built-up on them and show signs of de-lamination on their corners...all of them...

It seems like the guys who swear by glossy sleeves are just hooked on the aesthetic.

--which is fine, but at least acknowledge the true reason that you like them because the general consensus on them(read: the majority of teh internets/as close to empirical data as you can get probably) is that they are shitty and generally unpleasant to shuffle at a large tournament. From my own experiences, they are the absolute best sleeves to use if you want to hose anyone because a card gets rejected, during shuffling, flies out of their hands and lands face-up...

If getting an advantage that way is your steez, by all means use shitty glossy and/or artsy sleeves. Who knows though; maybe some of you are getting lucky with yours, but I have tried them numerous times and seen the sleeves of others and everything points to people deluding themselves about them for whatever reason.

For those of you with ADD: Ultra-Pro Pro-Mattes have been really good so far and that's comparing them to competitors too; shuffle nice, durable, don't spin every-which-way when they're new, resistant to filthy hand residue etc etc

[lorddotm]

I use pink Ultra Pros. I have never had an issue.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I use the regular ultra pro matte sleeves. Dragon Shields and KMC suck.

KMC perfect fits are OK.

[Arsenal]

That's odd, I've found KMC Matte (Red, Brown, Black, and Blue) to be fantastic. I use KMC Perfect Fit + KMC Matte for all my decks and love it.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I have a bunch of brown Dragon Shields from five+ years ago I still use. DS all the way. Ultra Pro is shit and rips on command.

[Neuad]

I've tried the Perfect fits, they are nice but they make the deck + SB too big for your average deck box.


I bought a set of the new Ultra Pros before Louisville, Sleeved up Saturday night and shuffled a few times preparing my deck, sat down Sunday morning waiting for the player meeting and kept shuffling and broke 4 of them within 5 minutes. Bought a pack of KMC Mattes and they worked great. Only 2 tournements in but not a single broke sleeve, they dont scratch too bad or anything.


Dragon Sleeves are nice, and they last my friend forever, but I find them to be too thick and clunky, and they're not always cut even. . . sometimes not even in the same box.

[Arsenal]

Yeah, Perfect Fit + Sleeves has forced me to use the Ultra-Pro Pro Deck Box (holds 110 sleeved cards, a nice fit for 75 Perfect Fit + Sleeved cards). I agree with DS, they are miscut too often for me to take them seriously.

[Gump]

I have a bunch of brown Dragon Shields from five+ years ago I still use. DS all the way. Ultra Pro is shit and rips on command.

woops wrong guy!

P.s. I bought a blue set of DS sleeves they are still fine and I have owned them since 2005 At least, maybe 2004.

[Richard Cheese]

Sorry to necro this, but since I'm having trouble finding KMC sleeves at stores around here, I was wondering if anyone has any long-term results with Legion or Player's Choice sleeves. I want something that ideally get screwed up by my n00b side-shuffling like the KMC Mattes. I bought some UltraPro Pro Mattes and after a dozen games the corners are just bent to shit, and they're already picking up dirt. I need to standardize on something I can reliably get more of.

Well...except that I may make an exception and sleeve Zoo up in these babies:
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/dragonballzcentral_2165_1088925529

Expensive as hell though.

[Whippoorwill]

I've always been happy with Player's Choice sleeves. On par with KMC from my experience.

Edit: Finally got around to sleeving a deck with the Busiroad Sleeves (http://www.amiami.jp/shop/?set=english&vgForm=ProductInfo&sku=CGD2-09334&template=default/product/e_display.html) I ordered. They look nice, but they won't be legal for tournaments (at least major ones) due to how reflective they are. I imagine most/all of the others like this are the same way.

[crovakiet]

I have been happy with KMC Matte Blacks thus far but I would like to try and find a cheaper alternative while keeping the same quality. I have heard that the Ultra Pro Mattes are pretty good however for whatever reason I am unable to find them 'on the cheap' that is to say the exorbitant shipping costs from various online retailers tend to overshadow the lower price of the sleeves making them equal to if not more than what I pay for KMC Matte Blacks which is around 9$ for 80. I know people in this very thread have quoted '2-3$' for a pack of 100 Ultra Pro mattes but I have not been able to find a deal like this anywhere...

[sadface]

What deck boxes can hold 75 double-sleeved cards?

I use Dragon Shields and KMC Perfect Sizes and since my ion deck box has started to fall apart I need a replacement. The boxes below are the only ones I have seen so far that I like the looks of. Are they any good? Can they hold 75 double-sleeved cards?

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/1402/deckbox.png

[Tinefol]

I wouldn't advise using #1 box. The paint on these Ultra pros boxes starts to come off after first use which makes em fugly. Cheap shit.

[Philipp2293]

I can highly recommend the box on the right. Also holds enough cards (although the space in the box is totally filled up if you insert 75 freshly doubled sleeve cards).

[kiblast]

I love those boxes:

http://arcanetinmen.dk/typo3temp/pics/3f5d83e5f5.jpg

They're cheap, built to resist and hold EDH-double sleeved Legacy decks pretty nicely.
Ultra Pro ones have a bit weaker construction.

[jandax]

A deckbox the size of the ones they hadn out at GPs will hold a double sleeved 75 card deck plus sideboard divider

[Shimi]

I use Ultra Pro new Deck box(similar to Old Ion boxes) and my very happy with my Foil Legacy deck with KMC Perfect Size + Dragon Shield Pink.

[Bruticus]

Getting back into magic, and I just received some Ultra Pro Matte Black, and I hate them. They're two small to fit cards with Perfect Fit sleeves on them and the matte finish makes the colors look dull. I never had this problem with the older, shiny ones from a few years back. What works best with perfect fit sleeves? I hear mixed things about dragon.

[keys]

Getting back into magic, and I just received some Ultra Pro Matte Black, and I hate them. They're two small to fit cards with Perfect Fit sleeves on them and the matte finish makes the colors look dull. I never had this problem with the older, shiny ones from a few years back. What works best with perfect fit sleeves? I hear mixed things about dragon.

Regular Ultra Pros are probably the best with Perfect Fits.

[Atog]

Getting back into magic, and I just received some Ultra Pro Matte Black, and I hate them. They're two small to fit cards with Perfect Fit sleeves on them and the matte finish makes the colors look dull. I never had this problem with the older, shiny ones from a few years back. What works best with perfect fit sleeves? I hear mixed things about dragon.

Have the size changed after they released them? I have those WITH perfect fit and they are doing ok.

[TossUsToLions]

Is there a difference in quality between KMC Super Series and KMC Mattes? I use the Super, and they have been pretty good overall (and come in orange), but most people seem to use the Mattes.

[crovakiet]

I love those boxes:

http://arcanetinmen.dk/typo3temp/pics/3f5d83e5f5.jpg

They're cheap, built to resist and hold EDH-double sleeved Legacy decks pretty nicely.
Ultra Pro ones have a bit weaker construction.

I use these! They are awesome and stackable :cool: The only problem I have is that you can't hold it from the sides/top lightly as the cover 'slides' off. So you got to be careful and pick up the deck box from the bottom and not just carelessly grab from the sides unless you squeeze the sides really hard to prevent the 'slide'. As said before, it fits double sleeved decks as well.


Is there a difference in quality between KMC Super Series and KMC Mattes? I use the Super, and they have been pretty good overall (and come in orange), but most people seem to use the Mattes.

There is a difference in quality definitely. The mattes tend to be easier to shuffle and prone to get less 'sticky' after some extended play. The only thing that Super has going for it that recently? or very recently? KMC Perfect Fits seem to be fitting a lot easier in the Super series and very hard if not impossible to fit in the Matte series. I don't know if this is just a production fluke or whether its universal but there are other people who have experienced this, so buyer beware.

[wolfstorm]

Dragon shield's are amazing IMO It's all I've been using for quite a few years now and I don't even think I have had more than 2 sleeves break yet.

[[sic]]

I have used KMC Super and mattes and Ultra Pro mattes but I'm bored with them. Does anybody have experience with Player's Choice versus Legion in plain color sleeves?

[Sempra]

Im surprised that not many people use Players Choice?

By far my favorite sleeves, ive used alot but KMC Perfect Fit inside White players choice is by far my favorite.

The white players choice have an almost matte back but its very subtle compared to ultra pro matte, its more like KMC Matte but not as thick. The sleeves work amazing because they are quite thin, so even with kmc perfect fit inside the deck dosent look double sleeved!

The height of the sleeves and size fit perfectly a size just over kmc perfect, sometimes they can be hard to fit kmc perfect size in, like the kmc matte blue fx.

Only problem, they dont last an amazingly long time, because they are very thin, but ive never had a sleeve split open when side shuffling!

[Klazam]

I'm here to voice my love for Dragonshields. Pretty damn indestructible. I sleeved up all of my legacy decks in white dragonshields, and they're still doing good over a year- with minor dirt spots, easily wiped off. I only had to replace 2 sleeves- due to a friend who dug his nail in them.

My edh decks are in dragonshields also. One deck is sleeved in blue dragonshields that i got 7 years ago. In that deck- out of 99 sleeves (lost one somewhere) 4 have very minor spilt in the corner of the sleeve- still playable, and 2 others has folded corners (Probably unplayable in tournaments). So, with 6 sleeves out of 99 damaged after 7 years of heavy use, in many different decks, I'll heartily ENDORSE the use of dragonshields.

The only possible complaint about dragonshields is when you have an all-foil deck. The sleeves will accentuate the natural warp in the cards. Solution: Perfect fits. Problem solved.

[rancOr_]

KMC + perfect fit is the best if u want to protect expensive cards.

[Neuad]

KMC arent bad sleeves, but corner shuffling ruins the corners.

Dragon Shields are the way to go.

[Arianrhod]

One problem/question that I have is that of older sleeves. I, too, have an ancient set of Dragonshields (silver, for what it's worth) that have lasted absurdly well. However, I have had a lot of problems with the newer Dragonshields, and switched to KMC Matte blues, which have the advantage of making my foils look nicer than in Dragons anyway. As such, is there a way to find older Dragons that would actually have the original production standards, and not the new, weaker sleeves? Also, I believe that once upon a time, UltraPro released a series of matte sleeves that really brought out the shine in a foil. Would anyone know what happened to those? One of the problems I always had with Dragons was that eventually you couldn't even tell that the cards they were holding were foil, which is a no-no in my book -- if I've gone to the time, expense, and trouble to foil out a deck, I want it protected and displayed. I might be asking too much, but I think that some of the older versions of these sleeves might be what I'm looking for.

And now that I think I've repeated myself about three times, I'm going to go away >_<

[phonics]

I've always been happy with Player's Choice sleeves. On par with KMC from my experience.

Edit: Finally got around to sleeving a deck with the Busiroad Sleeves (http://www.amiami.jp/shop/?set=english&vgForm=ProductInfo&sku=CGD2-09334&template=default/product/e_display.html) I ordered. They look nice, but they won't be legal for tournaments (at least major ones) due to how reflective they are. I imagine most/all of the others like this are the same way.

I would totally be down for some beef backed sleeves haha:

http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=CGD2-22433&page=

[Richard Cheese]

I would totally be down for some beef backed sleeves haha:

http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=CGD2-22433&page=

Holy hell...has anyone played with these Milestone sleeves? The dimensions look like they should fit MTG cards. If anyone can attest to their quality, I'd get about a million wagyu sleeves.

[cdr]

Wow. (http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=CGD2-20293&page=top%2Fsearch%2Flist%3Fs_cate2%3D8547%24pagemax%3D100%24getcnt%3D0%24pagecnt%3D3) There seem to be quite a few awesome japanese meme sleeves.

[csy]

So I've learned the hardway that the LATEST ultra pro matte black sleeves CAN NOT sustain KMC perfect fit inside them. They ripple and in at least 10 cards cases split the sleeve on insertion. Putting it in the way Id like with perfect upside down and UPmatte right side up was impossible so I just went with both right side up. After 5 rounds at a tourny I went to last week Id replaced enough sleeves to be down to 0 extra sleeves, and many thick white edges. I do a pile shuffle followed by a very loose grip "cram" shuffle. Then a subtle rifle shuffle.

Id love to hear what my options are for double sleeving with KMC-PF that maintains the amount of "cleanliness" the ultra pro mattes do. I've tried the KMC super matte, but the perfect fit do not fit inside, and they get soo scuffed and smudged after the first 3 shuffles. I can't stand sleeves with prints on them or colors other than black.

Im looking for recomendations from the fellow sweaty hand double sleevers out there.

Im ordering some dragon shields right now to try out. I plan to attend GP indy, and I really dont want to have to bring 8 packs of sleeves to avoid a marked card warning.

[John Cox]

That's ballsy, you use KMC perfect fits but still riffle, you have more guts than I.

[csy]

Its a very light just enough to not get called for insufficient shuffling. People love yelling "judge"

[Krieg]

For what it's worth -
Over the last few months Ultra Pro has been re-sizing its sleeves.
The older sleeves were 67mm x 92mm.
The newer ones are 66mm x 91mm.
(pay attention when you purchase them as the newer ones are all size marked)
It's not much of a difference but enough to make KMC perfect fitting difficult.

Ultra Pro does make its own brand of perfect fits that are a bit tighter than the KMC
ones. This creates its own problems as the fit is extremely tight and cards will bend
if you are not careful.

[JACO]

So I've learned the hardway that the LATEST ultra pro matte black sleeves CAN NOT sustain KMC perfect fit inside them. They ripple and in at least 10 cards cases split the sleeve on insertion. Putting it in the way Id like with perfect upside down and UPmatte right side up was impossible so I just went with both right side up. After 5 rounds at a tourny I went to last week Id replaced enough sleeves to be down to 0 extra sleeves, and many thick white edges. I do a pile shuffle followed by a very loose grip "cram" shuffle. Then a subtle rifle shuffle.

Id love to hear what my options are for double sleeving with KMC-PF that maintains the amount of "cleanliness" the ultra pro mattes do. I've tried the KMC super matte, but the perfect fit do not fit inside, and they get soo scuffed and smudged after the first 3 shuffles. I can't stand sleeves with prints on them or colors other than black.

Im looking for recomendations from the fellow sweaty hand double sleevers out there.

Im ordering some dragon shields right now to try out. I plan to attend GP indy, and I really dont want to have to bring 8 packs of sleeves to avoid a marked card warning.

I don't have the same experience as you. I have ALL of my cards I play with currently double-sleeved in KMC Perfect Fits surrounded by Ultra Pro PRO MATTES (I have black, white, and red currently). I have no problems either sleeving or shuffling them. In fact I have been highly recommending them to my friends, many of whom have swtiched over to the exact same style.

[dsck]

I don't have the same experience as you. I have ALL of my cards I play with currently double-sleeved in KMC Perfect Fits surrounded by Ultra Pro PRO MATTES (I have black, white, and red currently). I have no problems either sleeving or shuffling them. In fact I have been highly recommending them to my friends, many of whom have swtiched over to the exact same style.


Seconded.

If you have problems with fitting the sleeves you could always play without perfect fits (test games/gold fish) and then try fitting with perfect fits when the sleeves have loosened up.

Its also important that you have correct tecnique when sleeving. In my experience: place the perfect fit sleeved card in the entrance of up matte sleeve, then switch it upside down on table and slowly slide the up matte sleeve downwards.

I also strongly advice against rifle shuffling.

[Sloshthedark]

KMC-PF in KMC matte for 2 years and no problems, perfect fit fits just right... the surface felt unusual at first, I'm changing them when the corners bend due to opponents do not know how to shuffle, otherwise those could last forever I'd think...
I have experience with older ultra pro black which were miserable, both color and size different between packs, picture sleeves often splitting the upper layer... dragon shield white are kind of ok slippery when new, I have singleton in them, and KMC super black - super slippery at first, feel best both in hand and shuffle but tend to accumulate dirt and then stick to one another, you could pick up the deck just holding few top cards if you press them together and split if shuffled incorrectly still 2nd best choice for me

[I am the brainwasher]

I am really, really picky when it comes down to choosing sleeves and have a ton of experience using those. Since I bought my first cards till now I used more or less than 30 packs of sleeves from many different brands (mostly because I am a sucker for that new clean look and comfortable feeling with new sleeves) and I can just honestly recommend sleeves from "Ancient Tinmen" to every player that is looking for high endurance and optimal performance.
When it comes down to durability and quality in terms of production I have never played a sleeve thats even close to those. KMC perfect size with "Ancient Tinmen" is really the way to go. I don't know whats the exact price of them in other countries but over here they are rather expensive but it's really worth paying for them.
They shuffle extremely smooth, even over a long-term usage, dont stick together and are damn stable in comparison to UP and don't get those annoying bends in the upper corners like KMC, plus that every sleeve looks exactly like the other. No difference in size, no plastic that ccomes off and clean cut borders.
I know that this might sound like one of those stupid commercials but I can honestly recommend them as the best sleeves I have experienced right now.
Greetings

[Sloshthedark]

do you mean Arcane Tinmen (http://www.arcanetinmen.dk/home/)? = Dragon shield .. those are 2/3 price of KMC in my country

[I am the brainwasher]

Yep, thats my bad, mispelled obv. here.
In all shops I bought them so far they were more expensive than KMC.
Doesn't change the fact that I am highly satisfied with those though.

[dakkon]

I spoke with the Ultra-Pro guy at Gencon because I had the same problem with the Pro-Matte sleeves with KMC-PF. UP sell their own "perfect fits" (Pro-Fit) that will fit inside the Pro-Matte.

My problem is that all my legacy/vintage playables are in KMC-PF already, so it's a pain to switch everything over. If you haven't already double sleeved your cards though, I'd go with the UP Pro-Fit. They have sharper corners and are a little bit shorter than the KMCs, which will give you a few more options in terms of outer sleeves.

[csy]

well Im still in demo mode deciding what sleeves I want to use. I LOVE UP matte. thats my go to for non legacy decks. Im going to order their pro fit and see how it goes.

[Richard Cheese]

Not a fan of the Ultra Pro Pro Mattes. They seem to be a bit bigger than KMCs, and the corners get bent way too easily if you side shuffle. They are also semi-transparent (all but black).

Speaking of, maybe there should be a running list of sleeves that have been verified as transparent enough to make out double-faced cards through. So far I can confirm:

Ultra Pro Pro Matte:
Green
Red
White

KMC Super:
White

[csy]

you can add basically any sleeve thats from a vendor to that list, channel fireball, starcity etc.

[csy]

thus far, pro fit and pro matte are playing really well together. only complaint is still the inconsistency in sizes of both profit and pro matte and the roughish bottom of the profit.

[Sloshthedark]

btw. could there be a problem with Alpha cards in these "transparent" sleeves?

[from Cairo]

Speaking of, maybe there should be a running list of sleeves that have been verified as transparent enough to make out double-faced cards through. So far I can confirm:

+Dragon Shield - Pink

Making a bunch of sleeves unusable is yet another reason flip cards were a stupid idea.

[death]

btw. could there be a problem with Alpha cards in these "transparent" sleeves?

I believe the answer would be yes. To be safe, just use black sleeves.

[I am the brainwasher]

+Dragon Shield - Pink

Making a bunch of sleeves unusable is yet another reason flip cards were a stupid idea.

I do not know how your Innistrad boosters look like, but here there are so called filler cards that can act as replacements for double-faced card... .

[Onslaught]

Speaking of transparency, are there any opaque white sleeves? I'd love to use white, but I don't wanna mess around with the backs being visible.

[Malchar]

I've found that you can also see flip cards through the brown dragon shields. It's probably true for any color of them.

[thecrav]

Add Ultra Pro Pink to the list :/

I haven't had any problems with UPs and KMC-perfect fits. Usually, the problem you'll have is either that the perfect fit catches an air bubble or, more commonly, that the outer sleeve catches the inner sleeve. To prevent this, I always turn the card upside down and rest it on the table while I put on the outer sleeve, like so:

http://i.imgur.com/SZP2B.jpg

I sleeve all my cards with the same UP pinks. I've noticed the size change but it hasn't been a problem thus far. My bigger annoyance is that now some of my cards are in [somewhat] noticeably smaller/larger sleeves.

[blackberrybold]

I am looking for these Sleeves (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=285935)
Can someone give a feedback for em? We are on about to order them from germany, going for like 6-10 packages, but the shipping costs are 2/3 of the value, so we want to make sure that they are worth their money.

Pls some feedback for the sleeves if possible :)

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I am looking for these Sleeves (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=285935)
Can someone give a feedback for em? We are on about to order them from germany, going for like 6-10 packages, but the shipping costs are 2/3 of the value, so we want to make sure that they are worth their money.

Pls some feedback for the sleeves if possible :)

They're garbage. They split and are thin as wax paper. Don't waste your money.

[Koby]

I am looking for these Sleeves (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=285935)
Can someone give a feedback for em? We are on about to order them from germany, going for like 6-10 packages, but the shipping costs are 2/3 of the value, so we want to make sure that they are worth their money.

Pls some feedback for the sleeves if possible :)

I got them for free from their players club. Still have them in the packaging - might use them for my Zombie Horde deck; but they are not good long-term sleeves. Stick to Dragon Shields/UltraPro/KMC.

[blackberrybold]

Seriously ?
You see them getting played on nearly every tournament from the coverages :/
What sleeves would you prefer to buy? KMC are not my favourites anymore, the 80cards package with double 40 in it are different from each other ..
Just Dragon Shield or really Ultra Pro?

[phonics]

Seriously ?
You see them getting played on nearly every tournament from the coverages :/
What sleeves would you prefer to buy? KMC are not my favourites anymore, the 80cards package with double 40 in it are different from each other ..
Just Dragon Shield or really Ultra Pro?

You see everyone using it cause they get it for free at the start of the tourny so they sleeve up with them since they are new.

[blackberrybold]

You see everyone using it cause they get it for free at the start of the tourny so they sleeve up with them since they are new.

That makes sense :D We were close to order them :p
Any favourite sleeves recommendable ?

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Japanese Ultro Pro Green with KMC Perfect Fits.

[Vicar in a tutu]

Is it necessary to play with perfect fits to preserve the condition of cards? I have a bunch of pimp stuff (FBB Underground Sea, etc.), and I obviously want to keep them NM despite playing with them in my Reanimator-deck. (I use KMC mat black, btw.)

So, do I have to double sleeve?

[atropos]

Is it necessary to play with perfect fits to preserve the condition of cards? I have a bunch of pimp stuff (FBB Underground Sea, etc.), and I obviously want to keep them NM despite playing with them in my Reanimator-deck. (I use KMC mat black, btw.)

So, do I have to double sleeve?

I sleeve my Seas (non-FBB but still minty fresh) in KMC sleeves without perfect fit and that seems to do the trick. The sleeves last a really long time and shuffling is a breeze. I've never used perfect fit sleeves because then my decks wouldn't fit in their deck boxes, so it's really just a matter of convenience for me. In conclusion, as long as you take care of your cards there doesn't seem to be a reason for perfect fit sleeves.

[blackberrybold]

I sleeve my Seas (non-FBB but still minty fresh) in KMC sleeves without perfect fit and that seems to do the trick. The sleeves last a really long time and shuffling is a breeze. I've never used perfect fit sleeves because then my decks wouldn't fit in their deck boxes, so it's really just a matter of convenience for me. In conclusion, as long as you take care of your cards there doesn't seem to be a reason for perfect fit sleeves.

In my opinion it depends on your playstyle and decktype. In Legacy or the format with fetchies and brainstorms etc, if you are shuffling a lot and equal stuff i prefer the perfect size.
I am acutally playing alot with my T2 Deck, also on "non clean tables", and the sleeves are looking pretty bad, so the perfect size sleeve does, but the cards are without any traces of play.
playing with kmc black and white pearls atm.

[NathanS2k]

I used to be a huge fan of Ultra Pros with KMC perfect fits because it shuffles good and relatively cheaper than most brand. Until they got a little smaller and kind of make it a little bit hard to use perfect fits. Also what bothered me was how thin it felt. I notice little dents on the cards were made when the corner of the card accidentally hits the card even they were inside perfect fits.

Now my favorite are Dragon Shields. They fit good with KMC pefect fits, thick, shuffles good, durable. In fact, I never rip a single sleeve from them.

[zulander]

Don't Daze Me Bro are the best sleeves, especially the new ones. Nuff said.

KMC Matte are always perfectly cut, but can sometimes rip edges which sucks at a long tournament. Dragon Shields are the best quality but not always perfectly cut which sucks if you're OCD.

[Philipp2293]

Red Dragonshields perform really great so far. I like Dragonshields anyway, and the seem the be cut quite good. The black ones seem to bet cut way worse.

[Sloshthedark]

wow, you now can have 4 layers http://kmcsleeves.com/IMAGEgallery4.htm ... I guess mini perfect fits are Ultra pro style you were talking about few pages back... has anyone here tried additional layers? (mini or character guard/both)

[Malchar]

wow, you now can have 4 layers http://kmcsleeves.com/IMAGEgallery4.htm ... I guess mini perfect fits are Ultra pro style you were talking about few pages back... has anyone here tried additional layers? (mini or character guard/both)

You can get 5 layers if you put them into toploaders.

[Koby]

You can get 5 layers if you put them into toploaders.

Six, with plain white envelopes. /justkidding.

[Zakman86]

wow, you now can have 4 layers http://kmcsleeves.com/IMAGEgallery4.htm ... I guess mini perfect fits are Ultra pro style you were talking about few pages back... has anyone here tried additional layers? (mini or character guard/both)

Character Guards get scuffed super easily. Not a fan

[Anusien]

You can get 5 layers if you put them into toploaders.
You can get 6 layers if you put them in a condom.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

You can get 6 layers if you put them in a condom.

You can get 7 layers if you put them in a trash bag.

[Koby]

You can get 7 layers if you put them in a trash bag.

Where does the 7-layer dip come into the picture?

[death]

You can get 7 layers if you put them in a trash bag.

Eight layers if you slid them inside a trash can.

[jandax]

Eight layers if you slid them inside a trash can.

http://i.imgur.com/mP3qZ.jpg

[Kich867]

I use ultra pro, and I wouldn't recommend them. The corners have a tendency to bend and the sides are uneven sleeve to sleeve, so it can look like cards are marked. They also get dirty quickly.

I'm surprised you have this issue. Personally, I've been using ultra pro's for years--maybe I just wash my hands or something a lot but I've never had dirty sleeves (of anything). I notice a lot of other people do though, I'm under the impression it's because they sweat a lot when they play and the residue sticks to the sleeves.

Ultra pro's are greatly superior to KMC's in terms of playability. I bought the KMC super's and for one, it's hard as shit to get cards in and out of the things and two their edges are painfully sharp and at a certain point the sleeves just start sticking together.

I've never had ultra pro's stick, I've never had ultra pros that several years down the line don't feel like they were the day I bought them. I strictly purchase ultra pro's after trying KMC's first (and then tried them again about a year ago and had the -exact- same problem).

Dragon Shield's have pretty much the same problem for me. A friend bought them, who had previously only used KMC's, and liked them at first, but after about 6 months (with minimal play) you could see that the things just attract anything and everything to stick to them. They're harder to shuffle with and draw cards from.. He wanted to buy new sleeves for everything, purchased 3 packs of ultra pro's, and couldn't stop commenting all night about how much better they are / easier to shuffle / easier to use / cleaner looking they all are.

The only remote "issue" I've had with Ultra Pro's was a set of white ones that I purchased in which several of the sleeves, seemingly at random, are a different shade of white than the others. This is not an issue with my yellow, orange, blue, green, red, other red, or other blue ultra pro's. In that sense, if I can purchase 8 packs of 100 sleeves and 1 of them has an almost unnoticeable issue, that seems completely fine.

My roommate's brother also has about 1000 ultra pro sleeves from 10-12 years ago, only like one set of them aren't usable anymore?

Personally, if I were to even recommend sleeves to someone, I would tell them to go with ultra pro's. They shuffle, play, and feel so amazing in your hands. Other sleeves feel like they're strictly designed to protect the cards--which is kind of silly, if you sleeve your cards in general they're protected from the general wear and tear of playing..which makes them so thick and the edges so sharp that it hurts to even hold the damn things sometimes. You need to be incredibly rough with them to shuffle them because they're so damn sticky. Some of these people's decks look like a brick, like if you applied some force to the side of it, the whole thing would roll over instead of the cards just sliding like they should, it's really gross.

So you get these sleeves that are super thick and hard to shuffle with that are more protective from..I don't know, maybe someone randomly trying to take a knife to the thing? And then you have people bridge shuffling and bending the shit out of their $2,000 deck. It's -so- painful to watch these people with hard core 3 color control decks and you can visibly see from across the table their Underground Sea's and Tundra's curling from how terribly they treat them.

[Sims]

And then you have people bridge shuffling and bending the shit out of their $2,000 deck. It's -so- painful to watch these people with hard core 3 color control decks and you can visibly see from across the table their Underground Sea's and Tundra's curling from how terribly they treat them.

So? That's their choice. They spent the money on the cards they can shuffle their cards however they want. I'm the same way- I'll be careful with other peoples cards and change my shuffling habits out of respect but if the deck is mine I'll shuffle the shit out of it. I bought the cards to play, not to invest.

[Kich867]

So? That's their choice. They spent the money on the cards they can shuffle their cards however they want. I'm the same way- I'll be careful with other peoples cards and change my shuffling habits out of respect but if the deck is mine I'll shuffle the shit out of it. I bought the cards to play, not to invest.

The point was made within the quote. There's no further elaboration needed.

I appreciate the knee jerk "I read into this more than I should have so my guttural response is that he's telling me I'm doing something wrong" post, but that's really all there was to it.

It's painful to watch people shuffling decks like that.

[Koby]

Good thing Underground Seas and Tundras don't have emotions or pain receptors then; I fell less bad about deforming the cards when I bridge shuffle the fuck out them.

[Kich867]

Good thing Underground Seas and Tundras don't have emotions or pain receptors then; I fell less bad about deforming the cards when I bridge shuffle the fuck out them.

So is today self rationalization day or what?

[Koby]

So is today self rationalization day or what?

Nah, just pushing some buttons. My cards are mine to use and abuse. Protecting them from dirt/spills is what the purpose of double sleeving performs - not protecting the cards from wear due to shuffling.

With regards to protecting cards - double sleeving makes a ton of sense considering how much the cost of these cards were to acquire.

[Richard Cheese]

Remember the pre-sleeve days when you could use proxies if you could produce the actual cards on request? I recall playing against a guy with a fully-powered BG Land Destruction deck with Juzam in it. The whole thing was proxied and he had all the actual cards in those thick plastic snap cases for baseball cards. I basically thought he was the baddest motherfucker on the planet.

[jandax]

Remember the pre-sleeve days when you could use proxies if you could produce the actual cards on request? I recall playing against a guy with a fully-powered BG Land Destruction deck with Juzam in it. The whole thing was proxied and he had all the actual cards in those thick plastic snap cases for baseball cards. I basically thought he was the baddest motherfucker on the planet.

I remember when the LSG got clear ultra pro sleeves for the first time. Then everyone who had expensive cards actually brought them to the shop to play with. Seeing power and old duals as a kid was exhilarating.

[JJ-JKidd]

Is it just me or is it the Ultra PRO sleeves getting smaller? WTF? I cant even fit a card with a KMC sleeve :eek:

[Koby]

Is it just me or is it the Ultra PRO sleeves getting smaller? WTF? I cant even fit a card with a KMC sleeve :eek:

They are indeed gettin smaller. This is response to players complaining about their cards not fitting snugly in the older style. It's unfortunate that the KMC perfect fits no longer fit into the new Ultra Pros

[Spike]

Yeah thats right. I liked the old Ultra Pros a lot better, too. But with a bit sleight of hand you´re still able to fit a card with KMC Perfect Size. It does take some time but I still sleeve up all my decks with UP+KMC PS.

[xfxf]

So what is the best combination for double sleeving currently? I still have 15 year old UltrPros, although they are still going strong I want some new sleeves.

[death]

You can't go wrong with KMC Perfect Fit and KMC Super or Matte Series (any color). I prefer the Super because they're softer and more slippery. SCG sleeves are perfectly fine too.

[dragonwisdom]

KMC matte sleeves are probably more durable since KMC sleeved cards stack higher than Ultra-pro Matte sleeved cards.

Ultra-pro matte feels better in your hands.

Most people feel that KMC sleeves break alot less.

Ultra-pro is cheaper to buy

[dragonwisdom]

What do other's think KMC or the new Ultra pro's?

[Ozymandias]

I bought one set of KMC Card Barrier sleeves, and they wore down very quickly. Perfect fits are awesome, though.

Also, the Ultra-Pro size change made me ragequit the brand, because it means that the black ultra-pro sleeves that were my go-to are now distinguishable, and I can't use all of my. So, I now use Ultra-Pro sleeves to protect cards in binders, and have gone exclusively to Dragon Shields--though I heard they are out of business. Better stock up...

[Viridia]

I've been using mainly KMC and some Dragonshield lately and i've never had problems with them.
My ultra-pro's randomly die on me while playing an afternoon of casual magic, always need to keep 5-10 spares on me because they just split on all sides while shuffling :(

[richlaw84]

What deck boxes can hold 75 double-sleeved cards?

I use Dragon Shields and KMC Perfect Sizes and since my ion deck box has started to fall apart I need a replacement. The boxes below are the only ones I have seen so far that I like the looks of. Are they any good? Can they hold 75 double-sleeved cards?

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/1402/deckbox.png

Well, the blue mana symbol with the magnetic close top has had some really good reviews and I am going to buy a bunch of them. one for each 5 colors and 5 gold ones cuz I seen they have gold ones now and I will use the gold ones for my all rare/mystic rare specialty decks.

KMC's Mats all the way. What matters to me mostly is that they are durable and easy to shuffle and I hope they do make newer colors cuz I would like to be color coordinated but what matters most is protecting the cards and how well they shuffle and if they slide around or not.

-Ultra Pros split to easily and are sometimes miscut and now they come in 50 ct and the colors are sometimes in different shades.
-Dragon shields are durable but are miscut and warp cards because they are curved from not being packaged well. They just stick loose sleeves in a deck box.
-KMC mats are great so far and I noticed the brown ones have more texture than black.
-KMC supers I have not used but hear good things with the exception that they stick alittle and basically are simuliar to DS's.
-Players choice is KMC's off brand I heard, not quite sure though. But fairly good, def better than ultra pro, hell, anything is better than ultra pros.

If Dragon Shields made some minor changes, such as, stop the miscuts and packaged the sleeves to stop the curving(which warps cards) then they would be really good sleeves

[richlaw84]

I'm surprised you have this issue. Personally, I've been using ultra pro's for years--maybe I just wash my hands or something a lot but I've never had dirty sleeves (of anything). I notice a lot of other people do though, I'm under the impression it's because they sweat a lot when they play and the residue sticks to the sleeves.

Ultra pro's are greatly superior to KMC's in terms of playability. I bought the KMC super's and for one, it's hard as shit to get cards in and out of the things and two their edges are painfully sharp and at a certain point the sleeves just start sticking together.

I've never had ultra pro's stick, I've never had ultra pros that several years down the line don't feel like they were the day I bought them. I strictly purchase ultra pro's after trying KMC's first (and then tried them again about a year ago and had the -exact- same problem).

Dragon Shield's have pretty much the same problem for me. A friend bought them, who had previously only used KMC's, and liked them at first, but after about 6 months (with minimal play) you could see that the things just attract anything and everything to stick to them. They're harder to shuffle with and draw cards from.. He wanted to buy new sleeves for everything, purchased 3 packs of ultra pro's, and couldn't stop commenting all night about how much better they are / easier to shuffle / easier to use / cleaner looking they all are.

The only remote "issue" I've had with Ultra Pro's was a set of white ones that I purchased in which several of the sleeves, seemingly at random, are a different shade of white than the others. This is not an issue with my yellow, orange, blue, green, red, other red, or other blue ultra pro's. In that sense, if I can purchase 8 packs of 100 sleeves and 1 of them has an almost unnoticeable issue, that seems completely fine.

My roommate's brother also has about 1000 ultra pro sleeves from 10-12 years ago, only like one set of them aren't usable anymore?

Personally, if I were to even recommend sleeves to someone, I would tell them to go with ultra pro's. They shuffle, play, and feel so amazing in your hands. Other sleeves feel like they're strictly designed to protect the cards--which is kind of silly, if you sleeve your cards in general they're protected from the general wear and tear of playing..which makes them so thick and the edges so sharp that it hurts to even hold the damn things sometimes. You need to be incredibly rough with them to shuffle them because they're so damn sticky. Some of these people's decks look like a brick, like if you applied some force to the side of it, the whole thing would roll over instead of the cards just sliding like they should, it's really gross.

So you get these sleeves that are super thick and hard to shuffle with that are more protective from..I don't know, maybe someone randomly trying to take a knife to the thing? And then you have people bridge shuffling and bending the shit out of their $2,000 deck. It's -so- painful to watch these people with hard core 3 color control decks and you can visibly see from across the table their Underground Sea's and Tundra's curling from how terribly they treat them.



KMC mats are far better than Ultra Pro. However, if you are not rough while shuffling and wash your hands Ultra Pros are ok for a while. But If you treat KMC mats the same way they will last longer. I do not like any glossy sleeves. I use only mats and I would only suggest KMC's from my own experience and from the extensive research and videos I watched on card sleeves. Dragon Shields stick,get dirty,warp cards,and the gloss peels off. Ultra Pros split way to easily and I do not shuffle hard. KMC mats last a long long time.

[Hardcore]

I use Perfect Fit sleeves, then MAX Protection Sleeves - Dragon Booty -. The black leather box was too cool top be without (and real value for money at 20$)
Thats it. When anything wear out I replace it.
Still quality of sleeves is very good today.

[Claymore1]

I was about to make a new thread until I saw this one.

I was wondering if I can get some help about sleeves, as I have a bunch of valuable cards in my decks I really want to protect. I am having some problems with double sleeving. I use the KMC specialty sleeves perfect size, and using the KMC Matte black sleeves, to put it into. I had a deck before that would fit in just fine, but some reason this just wont go in. It's much more difficult to do so than before, like when I try to put the perfect sleeved one, a third of the way in, the perfect git sleeves will be sicking out far while the card itself is push in. :cry:

[Undomian]

I was about to make a new thread until I saw this one.

I was wondering if I can get some help about sleeves, as I have a bunch of valuable cards in my decks I really want to protect. I am having some problems with double sleeving. I use the KMC specialty sleeves perfect size, and using the KMC Matte black sleeves, to put it into. I had a deck before that would fit in just fine, but some reason this just wont go in. It's much more difficult to do so than before, like when I try to put the perfect sleeved one, a third of the way in, the perfect git sleeves will be sicking out far while the card itself is push in. :cry:

This happens a lot with new sleeves because they haven't had time to stretch out. There is a REALLY easy way to get around this issue though. Take a junk card, like a basic land or something, and put it in front of the perfect fitted card (outside of the perfect fit obviously). Then, push both of the cards into the other sleeve, keeping them even so they both go fully into the sleeve. From there, you should be able to just pull out the junk card from the sleeve, and your card should be double sleeved without any issues!

[Viridia]

So, i was looking around at SCG's store and noticed these Legion Sleeves. Specifically these:
http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=426399
http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=392193

Anyone know if these are of good quality? (Like KMC like good?)

[Koby]

So, i was looking around at SCG's store and noticed these Legion Sleeves. Specifically these:
http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=426399
http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=392193

Anyone know if these are of good quality? (Like KMC like good?)

No, these are relatively the same quality as the SCG printed sleeves. They are at about the same or worse level as the UltraPro printed glossy sleeves. These will tend to peel back and split.

[Goin Aggro]

So, i was looking around at SCG's store and noticed these Legion Sleeves. Specifically these:
http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=426399
http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=392193

Anyone know if these are of good quality? (Like KMC like good?)

Yeah, not even close to KMC good. The SCG free sleeves split pretty easily.

And lets be serious. SCG isn't going to be giving away top quality sleeves fo' free.

[Viridia]

Shame, i really liked the art on those. Sticking to my KMC's then :D