Mono-Green Elves *Post Worldwake*

[Darigaz]

Hey guys I am new here, and have been working on this deck for a bit (with a budget) and need some real opinions. I see some cards in this deck not included in other elf decks and I'd like to know why. This deck attempts to answer some of the problems that face legacy, but I still feel like I'm not quite there yet. Here is my decklist:

//Creatures
4x Llanowar Elf
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Timberwatch Elf
4x Heritage Druid
4x Viridian Zealot
4x Wren's Run Vanquisher
4x Priest of Titiania
4x Sylvan Messenger
3x Elvish Archdruid (can't afford another)
3x Wirewood Symbiote
2x Tribal Forcemage
2x Joraga Warcaller

//Spells/Enchantments/Artifact
2x Elvish Promenade
4x Lightning Greaves

//Land
x2 Wirewood Lodge
x10 Forest

I cannot afford cards like Gaea's Cradle, and Glimpse of Nature =( However I am aware of their advantages. I also understand that Viridian Zealot may usually be side-boarded, but playing against my close friends and local hangouts requires me to have them subbed in most of the time-
I need help. What is this deck doing wrong?
Side board is in the works- containing things to help against board wipes etc...

//Some questions I have are things like:

Why does no one use Timberwatch Elf?

Should I include Gempalm? The cycling cost is steep, and it doesn't give trample.

Is Tribal Forcemage good for a Mass pump? as opposed to Gempalm?

Arbor Elf used to be in here (hence post Worldwake) should I put more single drop mana producers? And if so, what would I take out?

Are any cards counter-productive? Why and how?

There is a bit of controversy over Joraga Warcaller and its general usefulness. Is this card hurting me?

//Thanks everyone for your time and critical evaluations. :really:

[(nameless one)]

Here is my current build although I have not playtested it for more than a month now (Im currently running Quinn):

11 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Wolf-Skull Shaman
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Sylvan Messanger
2 Joraga Warcaller
2 Tribal Forcemage

The deck is fast enough to outrace other aggro decks and stable enough to play along with control. Combo matchup is pretty much a bye for them though.

My sideboard always has Winter Orbs and Leyline of Lifeforce. Winter Orbs are good against anything from midrange to control decks while Leyline of Lifeforce gets around Chalice at one or two. I find that Krosan Grips are actually better than Viridian Zealots but cannot be drawn by Sylvan Messanger :(

The deck runs like X-land Stompy, but we have the advantage of producing a lot of mana, card advantage via Sylvan Messanger and the deck does not roll over to spot removal.



//Some questions I have are things like:

Why does no one use Timberwatch Elf?

Should I include Gempalm? The cycling cost is steep, and it doesn't give trample.

Is Tribal Forcemage good for a Mass pump? as opposed to Gempalm?

Arbor Elf used to be in here (hence post Worldwake) should I put more single drop mana producers? And if so, what would I take out?

Are any cards counter-productive? Why and how?

There is a bit of controversy over Joraga Warcaller and its general usefulness. Is this card hurting me?

//Thanks everyone for your time and critical evaluations. :really:

No one uses Timberwatch Elf because although he is really effective, he is slow. There are more useful cards out there that can take his spot like Lords.

Tribal Forcemage and Gempalm Strider have different pros and cons. It is in your discretion on which one you would prefer.

Arbor Elf is essentially like Llanowar Elves. Both does die to removal but Arbor Elf could be useless if your opponent is packing a lot of Sinkhole/Smallpox and you are running minimal lands.

There are a lot of different versions of elf decks out there (which is why the archetype itself isnt established). Some cards are counter-productive to other builds while some actually synergizes with it. At the end of the day, its your call on whether which elf you should run.

I have to admit, Joraga Warcaller does die to more hate than a normal Elf Lord (Chalice of the Void and Engineered Explosives just to name a few) but late game, if you can flood yourself with mana he could be worth the couple spots.

I hope that helps.

[Darigaz]

This advice was awesome-
Your deck is very similar to mine, but a few cards probably make a load of difference.
I see you don't run symbiote, can I ask why not? It usually is there for me to take heat from targeted destruction and other things.
Wolf skull shaman is vastly Superior I can't believe I did not run that card to begin with. Chump blockers each turn?!
Winter Orb is indeed in my sideboard. But when throwing it into your deck, what do you take out? And in what quantity?
What is your opinion on the addition of Lightning Greaves? With no Crossroads, this card protects me from targeted destruction and allows me to combo and explode very early.

[(nameless one)]

I didnt run Symbiotes because my deck is a spin-off of X-land Stompy. Quirion Ranger not only untaps your creature, It could also act as an Arbor Elf if you missed your land-drop on that given turn.

When I side in Winter Orbs, I usually side out one off of each creature I think was less effective, depending on matchups.

If you really need Lightning Greaves for you combo back up, go ahead. Like what I said, there are no established Elf archetypes. Lightning Greaves could be good if your build is designed for it. But for my build, I find that it does little to help. If you run aggro-combo, then maybe you should run them to protect your combo pieces.

Just keep in mind, do not fall in love with a particular elf when building the deck as it will hinder strategies (I used to love Wirewood Hivemaster).

Also, try this thread:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?11060-[Deck]-Elf-Aggro

[Darigaz]

You are so right about Quirion Ranger. I have been on the edge of playing this card for so long due to what you just said. We won't be drawing much lands, and thus, an untap creature, and untap land in the same card...ugh its too good. It just doesn't work well with greaves, and greaves put me back 20 bucks. But Quirion Ranger is just flat out better. I'm thinking ill just trade in my greaves for one more Archdruid because that card is too beast. Thank you so much!

[SpeedOfDark]

I would run elvish visionary in your deck. An elf that replaces itself, plus it can also combo with symbiote (think of it as a small sylvan messenger). Also, good call on getting a 4th archdruid and replacing the greaves. If you decide to play greaves, only play with 1 copy, and even then concordant crossroads will usually work better.

Depending on what approach you are taking, you should playtest with weird harvest as well and see if it works for your deck. From my experience, this card is godly in many elf decks. Here is an example of what you can do with weird harvest (if it was in your deck):

turn 1: forest, llanowar elves
turn 2: forest, priest of titania, quirion
turn 3: the cards played on turn 1 and 2 can make 10 mana. Play weird harvest for 9 mana (x = 7, 1 mana remaining) and fetch 7 creatures. Depending on your hand, you will fetch different creatures, but a general list would look like this:
1. Quirion ranger
2. Quirion ranger
3. Wirewood symbiote
4. Wirewood symbiote
5. Sylvan messenger
6. Sylvan messenger
7. joraga warcaller
From here, you pay 1 mana to play quirion, use its ability to untap your titania, tap her again, play another quirion, messenger, symbiote, etc. Note that weird harvest lets your opponent fetch creatures as well, but the difference is that your elf deck can make the mana to play them all on the same turn, as well as do combos with them (quirion/messenger/symbiote). They get to play 1-2 creatures they wouldn't otherwise, while you get to play 10-20 elves and make them all 10/10+.

If you want some more random ideas, here is the elf deck I have been testing lately:

***1 mana spells*** (22)
1 joraga warcaller
4 fyndhorn elves
4 llanowar elves
2 birchlore rangers
4 Quirion Ranger
4 wirewood symbiote
2 concordant crossroads

***2 mana spells*** (12)
4 priest of titania
4 elvish visionary
4 weird harvest

***3 mana spells*** (4)
4 elvish archdruid

***4 mana spells*** (5)
4 sylvan messenger
1 madrush Cyclops

***mana base*** (18)
2 gaea's cradle
15 forests
1 elvish spirit guide

The weirdest card in this deck is this one: madrush Cyclops. It makes it so that I can win on the same turn I cast weird harvest (fetching a birchlore as well so that I can make the colored mana). Based on my playtesting and assuming the deck is uninterupted (unlikely), it can win turn 3 (30%), but most often wins turn 4 (50-60%). I like it so far, but haven't tested it much in against tournament decks.

hope it helps, Elves ftw! :)

[SpeedOfDark]

Also, I'm not sure that 10 forest is enough lands for your deck. Remember that the way your deck is made, it can't do anything until you play at least 1 forest.

Here are the statistics for a 60 card deck with 10 lands:
opening hand with no lands: 25.8%
first mulligan hand with no lands: 31.7%
opening hand AND first mulligan with no lands: 8.2%

This means you will have to mulligan more than 1/4 of your hands, just for lands. And you'll need to mulligan twice close to 10% of the time for the same reason. Pretty rough.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I couldn't find the regular Elves thread, but I wanted to post this and see what people think of it:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103541&d=1269921788

[SpeedOfDark]

@DukeDemonKn1ght:

well, its definitely badass looking, and I do love it :P

Can it be played in legacy? Dunno. If it is played, I imagine it will be with crossroads or greaves for two reasons:
1. no evasion.
2. not coming out before turn 3, need to speed it up.

I don't think it fits at all in the Elves! combo deck, but there might be some aggro-ish versions that welcome it. Something like:
1 progenitus
3 khalni hydra
4 natural order
4 concordant crossroads
a shit load of elves
16 forest

Something interesting is that if you top deck progenitus, you still have a decent NO target. Crossroads works nicely with both progenitus, the hydra, and elves in general. A deck like this will have problems with combo for sure that you can't really solve. But you can fix the chalice/countertop problem with viridian zealot maindeck and krosan grips SB. I'm pretty sure this would stomp most aggro matchups as long as you have wren and lords.