[Deck] Shelldrazi

[thesilentpyro]

This is a deck focused on using Doomsday + Shelldock Isle to quickly get out Emrakul, the Aeons Torn WITH THE EXTRA TURN.



Updated post (4/12):

Love the new idea for the deck, I definitely think it should focus on the Doomsday win.




Lets start putting together a list of cards we want in the deck:



Absolutely necessary (no questions asked):

4x Doomsday
4x Dark Ritual
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm

2x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Shelldock Isle

4x Underground Sea
8x Fetch
Basics



Good things to have in general:

Mystical Tutor
Ponder
Hymn to Tourach
Inquisition of Kozilek
Duress
Thoughtseize (As you can see, I think discard is really handy)
Daze
Stifle (wasteland)
Nevinyrral's Disk
MORE COUNTERS
More accel (petal, chrome mox?)



Things that could be useful for this deck in particular:

Cloud of Faeries
Amulet of Vigor - These two attempt to get around the 'CIPT' clause on the Isle, which can be a major hindrance.
Living Wish + extra copies of Emrakul/Isle (in case of Extirpate, for example, or just easier access) + toolbox in the SB.
[cards]Show and Tell - Backup wincon
Careful Study - more search, allows you to get Emrakuls out of your hand and into the graveyard, which both gets them back in the deck and could give you more time to win off Doomsday as your deck won't run out as fast.





Thoughts?

[Vacrix]

No Show and Tell? I'd imagine its a must if you run blue. Its also particularly weak at assembling the combo. I think the other builds are be better, to be honest.

[Oiolosse]

Looks interesting, mainly because the inclusion of Ancestral Recall. This card is way underused for two mana. I agree about SnT's addition.

[Conficker]

While Mana Severence and Magus are cheaper spells, they don't mill that much. If want to abuse Shelldock Isle and go all out combo, you can with these following cards: Selective Memory, Treasure Hunt, Traumatize, or Glimpse the Unthinkable with Twincast.

On the other thread they were trying to utilize Mosswort Bridge and Phyrexian Dreadnought to cheat Cthulhu (http://diarynote.jp/data/blogs/l/20100324/88999_201003241146103640_1.jpg) into play. This forum is really becoming fascinating with new ideas.

[Anusien]

Ancestral Knowledge has some powerful synergies with Scroll Rack and Treasure Hunt.

But if you really want to mill yourself out, try Thought Lash.

[thesilentpyro]

While Mana Severence and Magus are cheaper spells, they don't mill that much. If want to abuse Shelldock Isle and go all out combo, you can with these following cards: Selective Memory, Treasure Hunt, Traumatize, or Glimpse the Unthinkable with Twincast.

On the other thread they were trying to utilize Mosswort Bridge and Phyrexian Dreadnought to cheat Cthulhu (http://diarynote.jp/data/blogs/l/20100324/88999_201003241146103640_1.jpg) into play. This forum is really becoming fascinating with new ideas.

The problem with these is that they all go into the graveyard, not exile, and thus trigger Emrakul's anti-reanimation clause, and thus shuffle the library back in.

I considered Thought Lash, but, ultimately, it costs too much, and I don't like milling my own Emrakuls if I can avoid it; the cards I'm using allow me to selectively mill, thus increasing my chances of having one in the top 4 when I play Shelldock Isle.

Show and Tell is powerful, but doesn't give the extra turn effect, is the whole point of using Shelldock. Still good, and possibly an inclusion still, but I love that extra turn.

[DrJones]

I use precisely that shell in my Nicol Bolas casual deck, but I use 4 Serum Powder instead of the Magus, and was thinking in including 2 Diminishing Returns. I also knew there were much better targets like the Eldrazi, but I really wanted to play with Nicol Bolas (and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, and Form of the Dragon).

The other option I had, was running a lot of singletons and Tainted Pact, but it's too much "highlandish" for my tastes.

[Float4WeldSlaver]

This could be incredibly janky, but Long-Term Plans will put Emrakul within range of Shelldock Isle, in addition to finding the Isle itself (Brainstorm or Top to get it quickly would be ideal).

It's also awesome with Thought Lash.

[DrJones]

This could be incredibly janky, but Long-Term Plans will put Emrakul within range of Shelldock Isle, in addition to finding the Isle itself (Brainstorm or Top to get it quickly would be ideal).

It's also awesome with Thought Lash.It's not needed, Ancestral Knowledge already does this a lot better.

[rufus]

No Orcish Librarian, Desperate Research, Divining Witch, Plunge into Darkness, Clear the Land, Doomsday...

[Mystical_Jackass]

No Orcish Librarian, Desperate Research, Divining Witch, Plunge into Darkness, Clear the Land, Doomsday...

Man, that would be pretty ill. Amazing idea:

Doomsday + Eldrazi @.@

You could make it in sorta a U/B (reanimator/storm) shell with brainstorm, ponder, ritual, petal, etc. plus some countermagic

Turn1: crack fetch-->underground sea. dark ritual, Doomsday (search 5 cards)
Turn2: draw & play spelldock, hideaway Eldrazi
Turn3: Win

Stifle would be a great SB, could easily work around. I can't see advantages over storm other than it takes less cards to pull off

[HPB_Eggo]

Doomsday + Eldrazi @.@

This almost seems like it would be a good SB option for ANT, since you just need to play the Doomsday and you win, assuming they don't have Stifle.

[Conficker]

No Orcish Librarian, Desperate Research, Divining Witch, Plunge into Darkness, Clear the Land, Doomsday...
Man, that would be pretty ill. Amazing idea:

Doomsday + Eldrazi @.@

Pretty sick idea indeed! I would like to generate discussion on this thread rather than on other threads since the combo itself can stand alone as a deck, and not try to haphazardly incorporate it into different archetypes. Alright, so I just invested $5 on a FOIL playset of Shelldock Isle hoping prices will rise soon. Bear with me as I skipped breakfast in order to do this so let's go!

DD-Shelldrazi, Take 1
-- 35 spells --
4 Doomsday
4 Selective Memory
4 Cruel Tutor
4 Worldly Tutor
3 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
4 Negate
-- 6 creatures --
4 Cloud of Faeries
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
-- 19 lands --
4 Shelldock Isle
4 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Swamp

As already mentioned, the deck works by #1 playing Shelldock Isle while Emrakul is in the top 4 cards of the library and #2 thin out the library to activate Shelldock's ability. This rough deck list was built around accomplishing both tasks.

Card choices:
We have 8 tutors to accomplish #1, and if you will count Mystical Tutor and Brainstorm that's 15 cards.

We have 8 spells, Doomsday/Selective Memory to accomplish #2. The tutors are there to increase chances of finding these pieces. (Note: Doomsday accomplishes both #1 and #2)

Cloud of Faeries is a Time Walk. It untaps Shelldock to win immediately. I cannot think of another card for this purpose aside from Frantic Search which is banned.

Why no Lim-Dul's Vault, Sensei's Divining Top, and Street Wraith?
Because tutoring for 1 card is nearly impossible with SDT and Lim-Dul's Vault. Especially with LDV when finding one of the 2 Emrakuls could cost half your life total. SDT and Wraith will allow you to draw a card off Doomsday which is crucial only in a storm.dec while Cloud of Faeries already does a better job as a Time Walk in this slot. Remember that only after you untap Shelldock Isle that you are able to win.

[jjjoness']

I really don't want to troll, but how is or can this ever be better than DDay Storm?
It's a two card Combo that wins the game in 2-3 turns. In Fetchland Tendrils Doomsday basically is a one card Combo that wins the game imediately.

[Conficker]

Well, the purpose for now is actually not to throw DDAnT off its sweet Tier 1 spot but build a contender either for casual fun or competition. People do that sometimes and that is why a forum like New and Developmental decks exist. It's for those who couldn't anymore stand the sight of Goyfs, Counterbalance, and opponents flipping cards over and over again.

[HPB_Eggo]

I really don't want to troll, but how is or can this ever be better than DDay Storm?

It's uncounterable and won't be beaten by your opponent being untargetable or having gained some fairly large amount of life in the first few turns. Also, Emrakul does win the turn you play it, it just takes more than one turn for the game to be finished. Those are two very different things.

[Gocho]

You can add Emrakul + Shelldock Isle to DDANT, siding out ANT in your 2nd game. It's an additional win condition to DDay Storm that don't die to the usual hate cards vs Combo.

@Conficker, if you want to win anything with your DD version, you need more cantrips, to draw into your DD Pile and begin the combo the same turn you cast Doomsday. After pay 9-10 life points, Zoo will kill you in just one turn, before you can play Emrakul. The more usual are the playset of Top and 2-4 Ponder.

[Greenpoe]

I love the idea for this deck, finally making a mechanic as sweet as hideaway useful for an uncounterable finish! I think if you added 1x Emrakul, you could fit in Lim Dul's Vault. Have you tried Tainted Pact? It might look janky, but it can work nicely if you use it right (Reveal cards until you find something you can useful, and if you don't find anything useful, then at least you got that many useless cards off the top of your library). Has Spoils of the Vault been tried?

[Nidd]

Plunge into Darkness looks very good for this deck.

[thesilentpyro]

Main post updated.

[Kangaxx]

Love the new idea for the deck, I definitely think it should focus on the Doomsday win.


Lets start putting together a list of cards we want in the deck:

Absolutely necessary (no questions asked):
4x Doomsday
4x Dark Ritual
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm

2x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Shelldock Isle

4x Underground Sea
8x Fetch
Basics?

Good things to have in general:

4x Mystical Tutor
4x Ponder
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Duress
4x Thoughtseize (As you can see, I think discard is really handy)
4x Daze
4x Stifle (wasteland)
?x Nevinyrral's Disk
MORE COUNTERS
More accel (petal, chrome mox?)

Things that could be useful, maybe a bit janky:
Cloud of Faeries
Amulet of Vigor



Thoughts? As it is, still a significant weakness to Moon, but that's why I suggested more discard, and the Cloud/Amulet could let you go off the turn you lay it, preventing them from getting a moon down in time.

Why only x2 Shelldock Isle? I'd actually splash green for Living Wish and run a toolbox in the SB along with Isle. Extra emrakuls come to mind, along with stuff like Bone Shredder, Shadowmage Infiltrator, Sage of Epityr etc.

[thesilentpyro]

Why only x2 Shelldock Isle? I'd actually splash green for Living Wish and run a toolbox in the SB along with Isle. Extra emrakuls come to mind, along with stuff like Bone Shredder, Shadowmage Infiltrator, Sage of Epityr etc.

Only two because it's only useful after a Doomsday, although I'd rather run more of those than Emrakul. Living Wish is good, but seeing as it puts cards in hand rather than on top of the deck, running it with Emrakul in the side is only mediocre, as I'd still have to Brainstorm to get it to where Shelldock could use it. Running green would also dilute the manabase (which, granted, isn't built yet), which absolutely needs to be able to produce BBB and U otherwise the deck won't work (fetches help smooth that problem, though, I guess).

[rufus]

I'm not sure how far it gets, but it seems like you could find some nice synergy in:
Brainstorm
Predict
Dark Confidant
Ancestral Knowledge
and
Shelldock Isle

[emidln]

Those builds are all fucking awful. You only want 1 Emrakul and 1 Shelldock Isle in the deck. You need 8 pitch counters. You need an alt win (hint: it begins with st and ends with orm). In short, you want this:

// DDFT v2
// What we do
4 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Meditate

// How we do
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// Cause really, why not?
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection

// teh Bonkerz
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

// teh win
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tendrils of Agony

// solid
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea

SB: 3 Silence
SB: 1 Tundra
SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 Deathmark
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

That leaves you with two free slots main. For those free slots in the main, there are a few good options:

1-2 Lim Dul's Vault
1-2 Spell Pierce
1-2 Cabal Ritual
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1-2 Burning Wish
1-2 Bounce
1 Pithing Needle
Underground Sea #4
Tundra #1
Fetchland #9
Island #3
Meditate #2

I haven't settled on anything yet. LDV is okay, and amazing when it resolves as it will usually win the game immediately, but you end up with spare mysticals just hanging out in your hand. If you have Needle, Chain, Tundra, or IGG, you can free up some sb space. Needle is mostly dead except vs Wasteland/Karakas game one and Chain is mostly for needle, but counts as general utility and ups the blue count. Burning Wish enables you to do some nice things with Doomsday for storm generation, which some people (not me, I'm fine with the storm capabilities) have reported as a problem. Cabal Rits help the storm plan and would open up 1-2 Infernal Tutor along with IGG in the sb. They allow you to Doomsday early more often, which is always a good thing. Spell Pierce was good in the harder matchups, but felt like it clogged my hand a lot where I'd look like I was a blue control deck due to opening brainstorm, ponder, fetch, island, top, force, spell pierce. I've played with a lot of protection packages, and I haven't liked discard spells at all in this deck. Silence could be considered to help out the tempo matchups, but tempo seems to very much be on the decline, so it might not be necessary.

Sideboard is designed to let you attack with either plan effectively, and to turn off the graveyard decks because you're about a full turn slower than ANT, and thus on par with Dredge and Reanimator in speed.

BTW, I did test CB and Confidant in the sb, and while Confidant was okay, Counterbalance seemed to be loose due to only helping a good matchup (the CB matchup) and stuff like Eva Green (where you don't care if they have dudes, you just want to keep your hand and lands).

A couple Doomsday piles to memorize:

Shelldock Isle
Force of Will
Emrakul
Misdirection
Spell Pierce

This will give you force/misd backup (at least once, maybe more if you have spare blue cards in hand) when you go to flip Emrakul. This blanks edict effects and can beat late stifles on the hideaway activation.

How to play vs hate:

Rishadan Port: you can activate shelldock isle in your upkeep in response to the port.

Wasteland:
-- loose plan a: run out underground sea and hope they waste it after dday, go. your pile needs to have lotus petal close to the top so you can activate shelldock isle the normal time. If you opponent knows what's up (i.e. doesn't go for the bait), you'll lose this game.

-- better plan b: you need Brainstorm, Petal, Dark Ritual, Doomsday #2, Pithing Needle, Shelldock Isle, or Emrakul in your hand with at least 1 random card in addition to Doomsday and mana to cast it. Cast Doomsday and stack the 5 cards you don't have with Shelldock isle and needle near the top. Next turn, you Brainstorm into Needle + Shelldock isle, needle Waste, then shelldock isle as normal. On your time walk turn you'll draw your last card. So you'll need to play petal, rit, doomsday to put some cards back in your library from your graveyard or you'll deck out next turn. If you have multiple black sources, you might be able to get by without petal, but without petal and a single sea as black source, they'll waste your sea in response to needle more than likely.

-- better plan c: kill them with tendrils of agony

Propaganda Effects: put LED into your pile and use it to pay for Propaganda effects. Who needs a hand when my opp is playing a slow control deck and has no permanents?

Needle on shelldock isle: If you have UU + shelldock isle you can just put Chain of Vapor into your pile. Otherwise, you'll need to have one of Chain of Vapor, Lotus Petal, Doomsday, Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, Emrakul, or Shelldock Isle + 1 random card in addition to the mana to cast Doomsday and Doomsday to play so you can build a stack to bounce their needle the turn that you activate shelldock isle then be able to play doomsday to add cards to your library.

Stifle:

-- plan a: have force of will or misdirection + a spare fetchland/SDT
-- plan b: hope you're postboard so you can cast Silence
-- plan c: build a Doomsday pile for a storm kill without using LED. This is possible with Lands + Dark Rits/Petals and Brainstorm/Ponder. You can setup a kill where you play Tendrils holding Forces with blue cards (this is easier said than done vs pressure which is why you might want to maindeck Silence in a tempo-heavy metagame)

Note about cantrips:

If you have an extra cantrip, particularly SDT, you can get shelldock isle the turn you cast Doomsday and thus you only have to pass one turn. It works better with SDT than with Brainstorm/Ponder, since those require you to recast Doomsday.

For Doomsday storm piles, see the ANT thread for links to my Doomsday Piles document.

[Gocho]

Stifle:

-- plan c: build a Doomsday pile for a storm kill without using LED. This is possible with Lands + Dark Rits/Petals and Brainstorm/Ponder. You can setup a kill where you play Tendrils holding Forces with blue cards (this is easier said than done vs pressure which is why you might want to maindeck Silence in a tempo-heavy metagame)


Stifle can't target LED (Mana abilities can't be targeted.), so you can build a pile for a storm kill with LED and a Fow for stifle when you play Tendrils:

[emidln]

Stifle doesn't need to target LED. LED makes you discard your hand as part of its cost, so you won't have Force of Will when you go to cast Tendrils and they play Stifle. My statement stands.

[Gocho]

Upps, you right. My apologies...

[Poron]

you can just Thoughseize/Chant/Silence/Duress them...

[Gocho]

Without maindeck Thoughseize/Chant/Silence/Duress?

[death]

Mana is spent during the first few turns only in finding or casting doomsday or you'll lose. That's why pitch counters are there.

[emidln]

You could actually play quite a long game and win with Doomsday into Tendrils. The reason for pitch counters is so that you can battle the suddenly ill-equipped blue decks (specifically UW and UGW CB decks) on the stack early (either through Dark Rit or just hardcasting Doomsday off lands/petals) knowing they can't beat a resolved Doomsday instead of trying to remove Counterbalance with KGrip then storming out. It just so happens that Force and MisD happen to be good in other places too. IMO, you'd definitely want Silences in your sideboard for those times when you're not fighting something vulnerable to shelldock+emrakul or storm protected by Force of Will (i.e Blue Tempo decks).

[Mystical_Jackass]

I'm glad you're on the same page as me. I saw you threw in Inquisition too, I was like hell YES. This was the list I'd brainstormed a few days back:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
((())))ELDRAZI DOOM(((())))

Lands (18)
7 Fetchland
4 Underground Sea
2 Islands
1 Badlands
1 Swamp
3 Shelldock Isle

Cantrips (16)
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual

Control (15)
4 Daze
4 FoW
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Extirpate

Finisher (5)
4 Doomsday
2 Emrakul, the Eons Torn

6???

~~~~~~~~~
SB (15)
~~~~~~~~~
4 Stifle
4 Pyroblast
4 Pyroclasm
3 ???

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Wasteland:
-- loose plan a: run out underground sea and hope they waste it after dday, go. your pile needs to have lotus petal close to the top so you can activate shelldock isle the normal time. If you opponent knows what's up (i.e. doesn't go for the bait), you'll lose this game.

Board in stifle! *thumbs up*

The new black removal looks pretty good too. I'm thinking of hapless reasearcher to help cycle through my deck quicker and provide emergency blocker? Thoughts??

[RexFTW]

try pithing needle naming wasteland

[Pulp_Fiction]

4 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Meditate

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Duress
3 Show and Tell

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder

3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 IGG

4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
4 Shelldock Isle

I actually really like what your doing here emidln. The deck is ... eh, but it is entertaining as hell. I think something modified like this could have a chace at doing something. Not playing IGG just seems like a bad plan though. You always have that way to win. 17 lands is quite solid. Show and Tell is just awesome. Hell, you could even put another one and something like Boseiju in the board! Thoughts?

[death]

4 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Meditate

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Duress > Force of Will
3 Show and Tell +1

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder

3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 IGG

4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn -1
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island -1
1 Swamp -1
2 Underground Sea +2
4 Shelldock Isle


Still rough and I think it needs Lim-Dul's vault for Emrakul.

[emidln]

If you're going to play a backup plan of S&T into Emrakul, LDV is almost certainly going to be better for you tan Mystical Tutors #3 and #4 (maybe better than 1 and 2, although a 2/3 split seems interesting). I still wouldn't want to play with 3 Emrakul, even if I did have a S&T backup plan though (I just dislike the idea of trying to S&T with 3-4 dudes in your deck). You'd probably be better off cutting the last two Emrakul for LDV since it can grab you Emrakul or setup a storm kill.

Ill-Gotten Gains isn't necessary in the maindeck. You can storm out without it quite easily, since if you're playing against a deck where IGG is good, you don't really need to Force/MisD anything (thus keeping your hand count up and cantrips plentiful).

Inquisition is trash. Only idiots and the poor (something that disallows you from playing this deck entirely) would play that piece.

Shelldock Isle is awful btw. While you theoretically *can* do stuff with it by playing it then Doomsday next turn, that basically costs you two mana. At that point, you could have probably just killed them with Doomsday + cantrip into Tendrils anyway. Playing the singleton that I am hurts enough.

Anyway, I'm sure that if you do focus more on Shelldock Isle, you have to include Pithing Needle maindeck. Stifle is an awful substitute. I almost want to do it with my list, and I only run one.

I think you hurt the deck a lot by moving away from the 8 pitchcounter plan vs Counterbalance. The *reason* to play this deck is a solid game vs not tempo and that you beat Counterbalance.

[adrieng]

The deck seems good but isnt'it too slow? , it seems the deck wins on turn four most of the time. (turn two doomsday in average)
I can see it being a problem against fast agro because of the life loss.
Other ways the deck is really consistant with lot of disruption, maybe I should go the tendrill road against agro ?

[Mystical_Jackass]

I guess I see why some of you might include Tendrils as a backup plan. I'm choosing not to, 'cause in all fairness it's like a 1-card combo--Doomsday heh.

I don't think Inquisition is bad actually. In a deck concerned about life loss, there's no life loss and you can turn1 remove potential bombs like lackey, goyf, confidant (bout all but tombstalker).. and most everything else but FoW (which you have your own countermagic).

I'ma try to cut out the LED's and show&tell's and such, try to focus more on countermagic and removal to backup Doomsday. I think that could be an advantage, over storm, you have a little more deck space that way to include protection because of that so I'ma try to take advangage of that. Anyways, this looks like a lotta fun I can't wait till Rise comes out :)

[emidln]

I can frequently kill aggro players on turn 2-3 with Doomsday into Tendrils. Doomsday into Tendrils requires a singel cantrip, which you should be playing 12 of to kill the opponent that turn. That is extremely likely, especially considering SDT stays around after you use it.

I don't need to play Inquisition because against decks that don't have Counterbalance, Chalice of the Void, or Trinisphere, I tend to kill them with Tendrils of Agony (Their other cards are mostly irrelvant. Duress is better, which I already don't play at taking those cards and Force of Will. Thoughtseize is even better yet since I don't care about my life total). Lackey isn't an issue when you make your opponent lose two life. Neither are the other creatures you listed. Inquisition doesn't help you resolve Doomsday, it just helps you kill stuff before your opponent invests resources in it. If you want to play something like that, run a set of Chain of Vapors or Echoing Truths.

Playing just for Doomsday into Emrakul is asking to lose to aggro. Why control them when you can pay 5 mana and kill them? Being able to win without passing the turn after halving your life total is absolutely critical to being able to win legacy matches.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, what you're saying makes sense from a Storm perspective.

I can tell you have a lot of experience using U/B Storm. I = Zero experience lol, but I do have quite a bit using U/B Reanimator and a lot of success :) When I was shaping the deck in my head I was sorta coming from a reanimator perspective of how it'd play out, which is sorta similar but just a little less combo'ey ya know.

pros: allows more removal/disruption to protect combo
cons: less consistent and possibly slower, no backup

For fast aggro, I always sided in Pyroclasm to deal with tribal in my reanimator which worked pretty well. I totally agree with how fast decks like gobs can accellerate, so generally I'd wipe the board and while they recover reanimate (doomsday)-->win before they can regain tempo.

Doomsday practically = Reanimate, in a way. Both are for game breaking plays, cost you like half your life as a drawback in hopes for a gamebreaking creature. "Shelldrazi" plus is you get a deffinite game winning creature, drawback is you may lose slightly more life in the process and no blockers till a turn later makes it slightly more risky. But I'm still brainstorming, I'm sure there is something I haven't thought up as of yet. I've even been tinkering with some way of dropping Glacial Chasm into the mix, then sac'ing the turn before hideaway.. I dunno

[adrieng]

Can someone give the link of all the doomsday pile (for the tendrill kill), I am not familiar with them and it seems they are quite hard to master.
Furthermore I can't find the thread with them.
I think they should be sticked at the beginning of a thread either in the ANT or TES topic. It would help people playing with doomsday.
Thanks.

[whienot]

Link to emidln's Doomsday stacks (http://sites.google.com/site/emidln/doomsdaystacks)

[death]

I unsleeved pieces of my BuR AnT and tested the list below:

DDT-SnT hybrid v1
4 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Force of Will
3 Show and Tell
4 Lim-Dul’s Vault
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea

After goldfishing several times, I'd say the deck is capable of consistently pulling off the following on turn 3:
1)Tendrils for 20 through Doomsday or
2)SnT Emrakul into play via Lim-Dul's Vault or
3)Cast Emrakul after 1st turn Doomsday into the Shelldock pile

[Forbiddian]

That's pretty scary.

It runs 7 must-counters at 3cc and 8 various tutors for parts and retroactive protection.

[Awake]

DDT-SnT hybrid v1
4 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Force of Will
3 Show and Tell
4 Lim-Dul’s Vault
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea

this list is sick!! I love it! but damn! it seems so complicate to play ^^ (the DD storm part ^^)
I would like to know if I understand it good:
Against Control (aggro Control) decks : Emrakul after DD
Against Aggro decks : Storm Kill


the only problem I have is when you use Shelldock Isle + Emrakul, what do you do if there is a wasteland on the other side of the table? wouldn't Stifle in MD be a great Idea? or something like pithing needle.
I was thinking to Boseiju, Who Shelters All to be sure that SnT will not be countered. (?? -1 Vault +1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All ??)

Anyway sorry for my english ... :confused: I hope it is not too bad and you understand me good :smile:

[kinda]

this list is sick!! I love it! but damn! it seems so complicate to play ^^ (the DD storm part ^^)
I would like to know if I understand it good:
Against Control (aggro Control) decks : Emrakul after DD
Against Aggro decks : Storm Kill


the only problem I have is when you use Shelldock Isle + Emrakul, what do you do if there is a wasteland on the other side of the table? wouldn't Stifle in MD be a great Idea? or something like pithing needle.
I was thinking to Boseiju, Who Shelters All to be sure that SnT will not be countered. (?? -1 Vault +1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All ??)

Anyway sorry for my english ... :confused: I hope it is not too bad and you understand me good :smile:

You could build a stack like...brainstorm, amulet of vigor, shellock isle, emrakul, something. But then again that requires you to play amulet of vigor...

[Awake]

You could build a stack like...brainstorm, amulet of vigor, shellock isle, emrakul, something. But then again that requires you to play amulet of vigor...


Yes ... but I find Stifle better than amulet even if Amulet would allow you to "win" the turn shellock isle and actually ... if you build the stack you're speaking about, you'll have a problem


brainstorm, amulet of vigor, shellock isle, emrakul, X card

means you cast Emrakul 3 Turn after DD but you'll only have the X card left in your library which means you can only attack ones which is not enough to kill (this case will only appear if you have no cards in hand ofc. if you have a random card in hand this stack will be enough to kill)

I don't think there are slots you can "sacrifice" to put x Stifle in the build, but it would be nice.

Ideas for Boseiju, Who Shelters All??

[Gocho]

Reading is tech:



Wasteland:
-- loose plan a: run out underground sea and hope they waste it after dday, go. your pile needs to have lotus petal close to the top so you can activate shelldock isle the normal time. If you opponent knows what's up (i.e. doesn't go for the bait), you'll lose this game.

-- better plan b: you need Brainstorm, Petal, Dark Ritual, Doomsday #2, Pithing Needle, Shelldock Isle, or Emrakul in your hand with at least 1 random card in addition to Doomsday and mana to cast it. Cast Doomsday and stack the 5 cards you don't have with Shelldock isle and needle near the top. Next turn, you Brainstorm into Needle + Shelldock isle, needle Waste, then shelldock isle as normal. On your time walk turn you'll draw your last card. So you'll need to play petal, rit, doomsday to put some cards back in your library from your graveyard or you'll deck out next turn. If you have multiple black sources, you might be able to get by without petal, but without petal and a single sea as black source, they'll waste your sea in response to needle more than likely.

-- better plan c: kill them with tendrils of agony

[Awake]

Reading is tech:


Why didn't I see it? :frown: I'm sorry for this lost of time ^^ and yeah Reading is tech ^^ I'll have this keep this in mind for next time ^^ now for this we have the "solution", I think we really have to think about SnT because I don't think only 4 FoW will be enough to succesfully cast SnT (even in SnT.deck i'm running 4 FoW 4 Daze and 2 X counters (spell pierce dispel, what ever)
and for me bojetsu is the best solution here (maybe not ^^ that's why i'm asking :tongue:)

thanks in advance :)

[Mystical_Jackass]

Reading is tech:

I get it, you're cool because you can point stuff out in a haughty way >.>

[emidln]

Amulet of Vigor doesn't actually work with Shelldock Isle. The Hideaway function happens only if the land comes into play tapped.

[Vacrix]

I unsleeved pieces of my BuR AnT and tested the list below:

DDT-SnT hybrid v1
4 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Force of Will
3 Show and Tell
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea

After goldfishing several times, I'd say the deck is capable of consistently pulling off the following on turn 3:
1)Tendrils for 20 through Doomsday or
2)SnT Emrakul into play via Lim-Dul's Vault or
3)Cast Emrakul after 1st turn Doomsday into the Shelldock pile
Vault slot looks questionable. Also --> 3 SDT in DD.dec is the wrong number. Your better off playing 4.

I like that it can win through CB, and that it can run Force. Its a great reason to play the deck. I think that your build is stressing Emakrul more than it should, though. Sure its a great card but running SnT to get it into play looks suboptimal when you can play Doomsday piles. Emakrul should be used primarily as an out to CB in my opinion.

[death]

The deck was designed to play with pitch counters so i used Ponder instead of a colorless top#4. SnT increased the threat density of the deck without having to rely on Doomsday to win. Occasionally you can play an Annihilator as early as turn 2, daze-proof and with Force backup. SnT at the least is a pitch card for Force or a bait for Force. Having this backup plan doesn't hurt the deck at all.

[Vacrix]

I know how the deck was designed. The point is that DD is already extremely strong. SnT is a mediocre back up plan because it requires you to have both pieces in hand. DD piles are much to easier to assemble due to redundant resources (though knowing which pile to go for requires a certain level of playskill). My point was that the deck should focus more on DD and less on Emakrul. Sure its awesome, but Emakrul should be viewed as just another DD pile, not the main strategy.

[death]

DD plan can lose to any deck with burn, discard, hatebears, 3sphere, chalice, thorn of Amethyst and even counterbalance. The more pieces you dedicate to DD the more you are susceptible. It is easier sometimes to tutor for the SnT package than assemble a lethal pre-Doomsday hand. Having this mediocre backup plan that can walk through hate is part of the strategy.

[emidln]

I was actually testing that list -1 Ponder, +1 SDT in the maindeck without so many awful swamps in the manabase. It was really strong and is one of two lists I've been recommending to people who want to test this.

My sideboard for that list has been:

1 S&T
2 Iona
2 Emrakul
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River
4 Misdirection

Also, Doomsday rarely loses to hatebears or most of that other junk you mentioned outside of CB.

[Vacrix]

DD plan can lose to any deck with burn, discard, hatebears, 3sphere, chalice, thorn of Amethyst and even counterbalance. The more pieces you dedicate to DD the more you are susceptible. It is easier sometimes to tutor for the SnT package than assemble a lethal pre-Doomsday hand. Having this mediocre backup plan that can walk through hate is part of the strategy.
Then you don't play DD. Decks that run it like DDANT and NLS specifically run tutors so that it can play around such hate. Emidln's right. The deck will drop a few games, but the reason to play it in the first place is it beats the jank you mentioned. The purpose of crafting DD piles with Emakrul was to win through CB if DD resolves.
Sure its easier to cast SnT with Emakrul. I don't deny that. I am, however, skeptical about playing SnT when DD is already strong on its own. If results prove otherwise, I'll change my mind.

Its good to see more combo in the format, especially one that has a good plan for CB, and runs Force. This thing could be quite the beast. Good thing I own most of it already.

[Svenanole]

any thoughts on living wish?

[emidln]

Yes, it's bad.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Maindecking Duress or Inquisition might be helpful against some of the hate;

I know this differs from the storm route but I was also trying 2x Tombstalkers in the maindeck as a backup plan, I wanna try it out next tourney and see how it goes >.>
(I don't own any mox diamond, so I'm toying around with some ideas)

[Vacrix]

@ Emidln
How viable would you say current lists are compared to NLS and TES? I'd imagine its a meta choice, not suited for Thresh and Merfolk heavy metas.

[death]

I sense fear.

[emidln]

Umm, this deck is perfectly suited to blue-heavy metagames. That's actually where you want to play this as you'll mop the floor with them most of the time. If you're playing vs CB and Merfolk all day, you should be winning most of your matches.

This is different from NLS in that it's bad matchup is Tempo Thresh instead of a bad Counterbalance matchup. Right now, that's probably a good thing for this deck, although NLS is the most powerful legacy deck I've ever played that didn't include Flash and in the hands of an experienced pilot, I wouldn't count it out of any metagame.

@ Mystical_Jackass

WTF is up with you and that terrible fucking Inquisition card? Just stop it. Seriously.

What hate are you talking about? If you're playing the S&T list you're favored vs just about everything but tempo thresh, Dredge, and Reanimator game one with game twos and threes becoming landslides in favor against dredge and reanimator. Things that hurt Emrakul tend to be ignored by Storm. Things that hurt storm look pretty terrible when staring down Emrakul.

[Mystical_Jackass]

WTF is up with you and that terrible fucking Inquisition card? Just stop it. Seriously.

What hate are you talking about? If you're playing the S&T list you're favored vs just about everything but tempo thresh, Dredge, and Reanimator game one with game twos and threes becoming landslides in favor against dredge and reanimator. Things that hurt Emrakul tend to be ignored by Storm. Things that hurt storm look pretty terrible when staring down Emrakul.

Just an idea, don't be mad. I was just mentioning some hand disruption wouldn't be bad for removing lackey, countertop, halo.. something like that. THoughtseize might be better, I wasn't sure about the life loss since running DD. Maybe it's better to be kept in SB though
Hey, I realize this thread's gone more Storm since it makes much more sense. It'll be nice to see how the deck performs in the near future, you might be able to make a good primer for it.

[Tempus]

Amulet of Vigor doesn't actually work with Shelldock Isle. The Hideaway function happens only if the land comes into play tapped.

But with Amulet of Vigor in play, the permanents still come into play tapped. The trigger just allows you to untap it.

Liking the idea, hope this gets more than casual fun...

[Vacrix]

Liking the idea, hope this gets more than casual fun...

This deck is way better than Casual fun already. It will likely be Established in a few months.

I think Erayo, Soratami Ascendant might be worth running over Misdirection. This is a relatively slow combo deck, but we can ramp to 4 spells pretty easily. If this comes out against aggro then they have to invest a significant amount of resources to get a clock on us. Control has an even harder time, having to play 2 spells every time they want to counter something, unable to cantrip, and they have a really hard time putting a clock on. If its played early, Erayo is a must answer threat for many decks in the format. Is it worth playing (maybe even postboard)?

[Awake]

I've tested the deck today against Zoo and against merfolk.
this list :
1 [UNH] Island
1 [LRW] Shelldock Isle
2 [UNH] Swamp
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [R] Underground Sea
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
1 [TE] Meditate
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [CST] Dark Ritual
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [AL] Lim-Dûl's Vault
4 [6E] Mystical Tutor
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
3 [M10] Ponder
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [6E] Doomsday



Merfolk was quite difficult (actually i did 0-3 :( ... wasteland got me everytime ... and i couldn't play around) i tryed the storm kill but it was impossible (with my version of the deck)

Naya Zoo is a easy match up, i played DD on turn 1 or 2 every matches, and kill turn 3-4 with Emrakul (i know the storm kill is better against aggro deck that can blast, but like it's impossible to get 9Storm+tendrils with my version, i played the Emrakul kill)

My question was if it is possible to put a random Stifle MD, that you could get with DD, and so you'll get a stack like :
[TOP]
Shelldock Isle
Stifle
X card
X card
Emrakul
[BOTTOM]

(say me if i'm wrong and if it's really usefull)




I was thinking to put a IGG MD, cause I don't see how to kill with the storm without this card ... (say me if I'm wrong and if it's possible to kill wihout)

[emidln]

This is the last time I'll note this: Stifle is worse protection than Pithing Needle against Wasteland.

Vs Merfolk, I played 3 games preboard and 11 games postboard yesterday. I went 2-1 preboard and 7-4 postboard with an almost identical list (-1 Ponder, +1 SDT, -1 Mystical Tutor, +1 Misdirection, -1 Swamp, -1 Underground Sea, +2 Island). The sideboard was easy:

-4 Doomsday
-4 Lion's Eye Diamond
-1 Shelldock Isle
-1 Tendrils of Agony


+2 Blazing Archon
+2 Emrakul
+1 Show and Tell
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Misdirection


(Full board had 4 Leyline, 1 Rav Trap, 1 Rushing River left). Honestly, I just sat behind basic island and then played 15/15s or guys that said "you can't win". It didn't seem to be that difficult of a matchup.

[Forbiddian]

Amulet of Vigor doesn't actually work with Shelldock Isle. The Hideaway function happens only if the land comes into play tapped.

Amulet of Vigor doesn't work for another reason.

It's a triggered ability on entering play. You get the hideaway. The problem is that it's a triggered ability so your opponent can just waste IR.

[death]

I was thinking to put a IGG MD, cause I don't see how to kill with the storm without this card ... (say me if I'm wrong and if it's possible to kill wihout)

It is very much possible especially with 4 SDTs. IGG is mana intensive and is not recommend in a deck that doesn't play Moxen and C. Rituals.

[death]

I think Erayo, Soratami Ascendant might be worth running over Misdirection. Is it worth playing (maybe even postboard)?

There is a better solution post board that AnT players overlooked. I don't post in the AnT thread because they just copy each other's crap and say the same things over and over again and it makes me puke.

I am willing to share this super secret sb tech luckily to those who are following this thread and here it is:
http://i.ebayimg.com/17/!BrSo!(!!2k~$(KGrHqQH-CwEvDboUYt,BLzEcW8)c!~~_12.JPG

[emidln]

Well, it's not mana intensive if you do it like this:

1U + 2 cards in hand after Doomsday
SDT/BS
LED
LED
IGG
Tendrils

2UB + Cantrip Mana (0 for SDT, U for BS/Ponder)
Med
Rit
Rit
IGG
Tendrils

My reason to not use IGG is that I find I can get lethal storm without it and it's dead in our hardest matchups.

[Awake]

Well, it's not mana intensive if you do it like this:

1U + 2 cards in hand after Doomsday
SDT/BS
LED
LED
IGG
Tendrils

2UB + Cantrip Mana (0 for SDT, U for BS/Ponder)
Med
Rit
Rit
IGG
Tendrils

My reason to not use IGG is that I find I can get lethal storm without it and it's dead in our hardest matchups.


I've never played Storm before, that must be why I don't see how you could get a lethal Storm without IGG, can you guys help me with this?? thanks :)

[emidln]

Somewhere in this thread, the ANT thread, and google are several documents where others and I have written about it. I'll leave the remainder up to the reader.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Somewhere in this thread, the ANT thread, and google are several documents where others and I have written about it. I'll leave the remainder up to the reader.

Just link to them in you sig plz. I have to google search for the doomsday stacks one like every other month.

[Awake]

Somewhere in this thread, the ANT thread, and google are several documents where others and I have written about it. I'll leave the remainder up to the reader.

I must suck in looking for topics ^^ I can't find anything about a lethal storm without IGG ^^ can you help please ^^'

I've tested the deck a bit more, and it's really good and fast ... i never expected this from this deck ... DD turn 1 or 2 happens like 90% of the time, and kill turn 4 or 5 is regular. I really love this list.

the only problem I still have is that fuc***g wasteland ... i've never learned to play around, and it's really difficult for me to do so. Pithing would really help here in the Shelldock Isle - Emrakul stack ...

SdT on table:

[TOP]
Shelldock Isle
Pithing needle
Random Card
Random Card
Emrakul
[BOTTOM]

I think this might be a good stack to kill with emrakul ... (i might maybe be wrong, if so, please say me)

thanks for the help you'll give me with the Storm kill :)

[ColeM]

Emidln has a link to DD piles right in his signature - its labeled "verbose Doomsday piles."

How has the Zoo match been going? I haven't had the time to test it. I'm also curious about goblins.

I have been testing vs. Merfolk and CounterTop. I agree with Brandon that Merfolk isn't that terribly difficult to beat - at least post sideboarding where you just Show and Tell them out of the game. Game 1 is a bit tricky since FoW sucks with LED but if they open with a slow hand you have some time to assemble Emrakul + Show and Tell. In tournament it's a bit likely you're opponent with use their Wastelands on your duals in game 1 since they won't be sure of what you're playing (unless you have been scouted) so the DD --> Emrakul plan can steal some games.

[Awake]

the zoo match was quite easy to win as i said it; I DD almost every match on turn 2 then shelldock > Emrakul after which means game, the only match I had problem dealing with this deck was the match were the zoo deck begins, and immediatly blasts me ... and like I'm normally not a combo player, i could kill him with a 9+tendrils storm (that's why i always used Emrakul to win) SnT is also great to win the game, since what the opponent can play isn't really lethal (who said Tarmogoyf? ^^). But I'll continue testing against this deck and I'll say you how I do :)

[blaat]

the zoo match was quite easy to win as i said it; I DD almost every match on turn 2 then shelldock > Emrakul after which means game, the only match I had problem dealing with this deck was the match were the zoo deck begins, and immediatly blasts me ... and like I'm normally not a combo player, i could kill him with a 9+tendrils storm (that's why i always used Emrakul to win) SnT is also great to win the game, since what the opponent can play isn't really lethal (who said Tarmogoyf? ^^). But I'll continue testing against this deck and I'll say you how I do :)

Easy?
The way I see the posted decks work is T2 doomsday, T3 BS into hideaway fun, T4 play emrakul and attack in extra turn with emrakul.
In T2 you lose half your life of doomsday and prolly/already a life or so from fetch.
How can you survive against a good zoo deck/player?
I even lost due to a land topdeck + bolt in opponents hand after board wipe from emrakul.

What I play is the next pile:



Brainstorm
Shelldock isle
Dream's grip (or oldschool Twiddle)
Lotus petal
Emrakul


With this pile, you need UU mana + two random cards in hand the turn after doomsday to get emrakul in play.
All possible turn 2, but consistently turn 3 (isle costs land drop)
This way you'll also get a blocker for more chance to survive until you can attack with emrakul.

I also added 1 Ill-gotten gains and 1 tendrils for storm kill of 16+ or 18+ with doomsday piles.

All in all, it really depends on the board state, life totals or opponents deck what doomsday pile to fetch.
The deck has potential, but (well timed) disruption justs nails you.

[Awake]

Easy?
The way I see the posted decks work is T2 doomsday, T3 BS into hideaway fun, T4 play emrakul and attack in extra turn with emrakul.
In T2 you lose half your life of doomsday and prolly/already a life or so from fetch.
How can you survive against a good zoo deck/player?
I even lost due to a land topdeck + bolt in opponents hand after board wipe from emrakul.

What I play is the next pile:



Brainstorm
Shelldock isle
Dream's grip (or oldschool Twiddle)
Lotus petal
Emrakul


With this pile, you need UU mana + two random cards in hand the turn after doomsday to get emrakul in play.
All possible turn 2, but consistently turn 3 (isle costs land drop)
This way you'll also get a blocker for more chance to survive until you can attack with emrakul.

I also added 1 Ill-gotten gains and 1 tendrils for storm kill of 16+ or 18+ with doomsday piles.

All in all, it really depends on the board state, life totals or opponents deck what doomsday pile to fetch.
The deck has potential, but (well timed) disruption justs nails you.


this Pile I'm using with shelldock is :

[TOP]
Shelldock isle
X card
X card
X card
Emrakul
[BOTTOM]

(the X cards are cards you can choose ... i never know what to put there)
I think I win easily because my opponent had slow starts, but I don't know if with more blast/creature he would have win.
and yes the games were like that :
T 2 Doomsday
T3 shelldock with emrakul
T4 play emrakul : Game ^^

maybe if the opponent had blast after the DD he would win .. but that's not something i'm sure about (i always had FoW+blue card to pitch in hand)

but i already said it, I have to test a lot more against aggro deck :-) I'll do it this week I think

If people that already tested the deck could write a bit about their games, it would be nice :)

By the way, I love the idea of Dream's Grip in the stack to untap and play Emrakul imediatly :-) I go to test it :)

[emidln]

Let me be clear that the plan is to not Doomsday, go vs Zoo on any turn except for turn 1 and then ONLY if you're holding a pitch counter. You kill them via storm.

For the same mana that it costs to DDay into IGG into Double Tendrils with this pile (5UB)

SDT x2 in play, Tendrils in hand

Med
LED
LED
Tendrils
IGG

which plays out like this:

DD, Med, LED, LED, SDT, IGG, LED, LED, DD, Med, LED, LED, SDT, Tendrils, Tendrils

you can do this:

Med
LED
LED
LED
Tendrils

and cycle SDTs into a minimum of 13 copies of Tendrils. If 13 + whatever you played to get to 10 mana don't get you lethal storm, you should just concede the loss and win before your opponent gains obscene amounts of life.

IGG doesn't belong in the maindeck. It's a crutch for those who can't properly manage their spells vs Zoo.

BTW, to all of you doing stupid shit like losing after you've flipped Emrakul, consider this: Misdirection and Force of Will can go in your Doomsday piles. If you lose to edicts, burn, etc after (not) drawing Force + Misd, it's your own fault. In short, be less bad.

[Awake]

Let me be clear that the plan is to not Doomsday, go vs Zoo on any turn except for turn 1 and then ONLY if you're holding a pitch counter. You kill them via storm.


of course you do, and that's clear! but like i never played storm, and i didn't know how to build a lethal storm with the MD i was playing, i prefered kill with emrakul ... anyway I know the storm kill is far better than the others kills.

btw, your first exemple is an exemple with a tendrils in hand, and a second in the stack which will never arrive cause we only play one MD ... (may be you play a different version than me ^^)

for the rest I totaly agree for the IGG even if I'm running it in the MD (yeah i'm not a storm player, that means i need a crutch to manage my storms, anyway i'll continue running it until i can get lethal storm by myself, then i'll put it out)

[emidln]

btw, your first exemple is an exemple with a tendrils in hand, and a second in the stack which will never arrive cause we only play one MD ... (may be you play a different version than me ^^)

This was in response to someone who said they wanted to add another Tendrils and an IGG to the maindeck...

[Awake]

This was in response to someone who said they wanted to add another Tendrils and an IGG to the maindeck...

ups ^^ this will learn me to read ... my apologize :(

[Awake]

hey guys, I just wanna share my version of the build, which i've been playing for some days now, and which i find really good. any advice?

Shelldrazi V2.2

1 Shelldock Isle
1 Swamp
3 Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Dream's Grip
1 Meditate
1 Misdirection
3 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
4 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Ponder
3 Show and Tell
4 Doomsday
SB: 1 Tundra
SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 Deathmark
SB: 1 Blazing Archon
SB: 3 Orim's Chant
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 2 Misdirection
SB: 1 Show and Tell

I'm actually running 61 cards MD, but I go to cut the IGG once i'm sure i can get a lethal storm by myself without it :)

[death]

I am assuming the reason for MisD and Dream's Grip is that your meta is full of Zoo and NLU. I wouldn't cut LED and M.tutor otherwise. I am in fact considering to add a singleton Personal Tutor main deck.

How do you plan on hardcasting DD with all those Islands?

[emidln]

I am assuming the reason for MisD and Dream's Grip is that your meta is full of Zoo and NLU. I wouldn't cut LED and M.tutor otherwise. I am in fact considering to add a singleton Personal Tutor main deck.

How do you plan on hardcasting DD with all those Islands?


Dream's Grip is awful and I don't run IGG but that is otherwise the maindeck I've been testing on storm boards. Islands are the most important part of the manabase and the main reason for a chance in the Merfolk/Tempo Thresh/UW Tempo matchup. If you need to cast Doomsday without Dark Ritual, you can do it off Swamp, Seas, and Petals (sometimes, even vs blue, I cast it off LED as well). Mystical Tutor is worse than LDV which is why I cut it for my 5th pitch counter.

[dahcmai]

Heh, I'm so loving this. For some odd reason Merfolk was always my worst match up. They would always just happen to have that Waste at the wrong time or that Force at just the wrong moment. Now I have a fool proof way to just waltz over them and laugh the entire way. I am so happy. Now just to be able to beat Team America and such.

Thanks to the OP for finding this stunt. I've played Storm for a long time and now being able to beat merfolk with ease, it made my year. I hate those lil dudes.

[death]

Here's my v1.2 list
4 Doomsday
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Force of Will
3 Show and Tell
3 Lim-Dul’s Vault
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea

sb:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Defense Grid
3 Misdirection
1 Show and Tell
1 Extract
1 x/Slaughter Pact

The random life loss from LDV sometimes felt like DD'ng minus the reward of a win on the same turn. SO I replaced 1 with another Eldrazi and it made SnT'ng smoother. I also tried to copycat 4 tops main and it just made me miss Ponder's power of shuffling away dead cards from the top of the library. I'm sticking with 3:3 and hopefully this fixes the ratio of colorless/non-pitchable stuff in the main. I proxied Dream's Grip and never found the use for it even once.

The sb is not final but Ichorid and Reanimator are concerning. A single Extract seems perfect against run-of-the mill AnT. I don't see the benefit of sadistic in the mirror when you still rely on ritual to use it. I shyed away from needles since Shelldock isn't always involved in the strategy. I am thinking now of Sphinx of the Steel Wind or Empyrial Archangel as x-targets for staying power against aggro.

[lordofthepit]

For those of you working on this, do you intend to play this as its own archetype? Or do you think it would be stronger as a "transformational sideboard" strategy to complement a conventional Doomsday-ANT list?

[dahcmai]

I'll give you my heads up on it this weekend. Taking it to the tournament to give it a shot vs the locals. We have vicious locals. The meta here will be a nice test actually. I plan to use it to compliment the normal NLD list.

[Awake]

For those of you working on this, do you intend to play this as its own archetype? Or do you think it would be stronger as a "transformational sideboard" strategy to complement a conventional Doomsday-ANT list?

for those of you that want to do this, i would like to have their list, it can be really useful for me ^^

[GreenHornet]

Here's a list that was thrown together prior to even reading this thread. I don't have the deck in front of me, so it's all from memory. Not being completely sold on the deck, I wanted to make sure I could go for ANT post sideboarding. Any thoughts are welcome.

2x Underground Sea
1x Tundra
1x Tropical Island
1x Shelldock Isle
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Island
1x Swamp

4x Brainstorm
4x Cabal Ritual
1x Chain of Vapor
4x Dark Ritual
4x Force of Will
4x Mystical Tutor

2x Doomsday
3x Duress
3x Infernal Tutor
1x Ponder

3x Chrome Mox
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
2x Sensei's Divining Top

1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Sideboard
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Tendril's of Agony
3x Orim's Chant
1x Duress
1x Nature's Claim
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Echoing Truth

[Vacrix]

Well I think you ought to explain your deviations from the other builds proposed. Merely providing a list is kind of pointless no?

[GreenHornet]

Well I think you ought to explain your deviations from the other builds proposed. Merely providing a list is kind of pointless no?

Well, like I said I built it without any knowledge of other builds. I took my ANT shell, and threw the shelldock eldrazi combo into it rather than construct a deck built around doomsday, or referring to another list.
I ran it against zoo, dredge, and goblins. Goblins was the only terrible match up. Between wasteland, stingscourger, and warren's weirding, it was nearly unwinnable.

Honestly, I like the idea of running a tendril's option in the main. I'll have to try to squeeze it in with ill-gotten gains and run it through the gauntlet.

I don't understand why lim-dul's vault would be better than infernal tutor in the deck. I can see stacking the deck to use show and tell. However the show and tell option seems slow when you could simply go for the doomsday, or even ill-gotten gains loop into a tendrils.

[Vacrix]

Well you are playing only 2 Doomsday, and only 2 SDT with those 2 Doomsday. Fatal flaws. You need 4 of each (or 1 DD in the board for BW) if you are going to run them to maximum efficiency. Look at Emidln's list. Its pretty good already.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Hey guys. I was sorta messing around with another idea (dangerous thinking, I know @.@):

Shelldock Combo + Dark Depths? ("Shelldock Depths!!??" --name ftw)



I put together a list... I'm not gonna write it down now, but you can pretty much guess. Hexmage's & 2x Depths (2x Urborg) in a similar B/U shell with a singleton Show & Tell with 2x Tombstalkers for giggles. I didn't want to make a new thread so I figured I'd just ask here if anyone has thoughts on something like that?

[GreenHornet]

I wouldn't call them fatal flaws, the deck did quite in my testing. With 3x infernal tutor, 4x mystical tutor, and 2x doomsday, there isn't a reason you shouldn't have one in your opening 7.
Top always seems underwhelming to me. But it's possible that's just personal preference. I'll test a play set tomorrow.
Is there a reason I don't see infernal tutor in many posted lists? With LED in the list, it seems like it'd be bonkers.

[kinda]

Anyone think a eureka style deck with this combo would be viable?

Land: 18
1 shelldock isle
4 underground sea
4 polluted delta
4 marsh flats
2 misty rainforest
2 swamp
1 island

creatures: 8
4 emrakul
4 progenitus

deck manipulation: 7
4 brainstorm
3 top/ponder

protection: 6
4 thoughtseize
2 duress

ramp: 8
4 dark ritual
4 lotus petal

combo: 13
4 show and tell
4 doomsday
4 personal tutor
1 pithing needle

[Vacrix]

It is. I saw it beat the shit out of U.dec and race aggro just last week, and beat it myself playing Solidarity. It was pretty solid, but he played a list too light on protection IMO. He should have played Misdirections instead of Daze. Then again, this was a UG list and yours also runs Doomsday. You're basically getting rid of the storm win, which is pretty dam strong. I don't know if your list can race aggro. It also doesn't play Force, a big draw to playing this deck.

Also, its a completely different deck and I'm certain there are at least 2 threads for it already.

[Kangaxx]

This deck is dead. Mystical Tutor just got the ban hammer. Was I the first one to say this?

[kinda]

It is. I saw it beat the shit out of U.dec and race aggro just last week, and beat it myself playing Solidarity. It was pretty solid, but he played a list too light on protection IMO. He should have played Misdirections instead of Daze. Then again, this was a UG list and yours also runs Doomsday. You're basically getting rid of the storm win, which is pretty dam strong. I don't know if your list can race aggro. It also doesn't play Force, a big draw to playing this deck.

Also, its a completely different deck and I'm certain there are at least 2 threads for it already.

Well yeah I bet a show and tell deck similar to the top16 one at scg atlanda could switch out mystical tutor for personal tutor and wipe away for reverent silence or eye of nowhere...obviously harder to deal with hate that way but still decently powerful. Another option for this deck is sb xantid swarm.

Though with shelldrazi...it is my impression (and looks like kangaxx's too) that the deck as it stands is no longer viable (i don't play tendrils but that was my impression). Now comparing ub to ug show and tell it's noble hierarch, eureka vs. dark ritual, doomsday, thoughtseize, and lim-dul's vault. Now vs. zoo playing doomsday after t1 or t2 w/force (which yeah should be played) is probably a bad idea...and doomsday may have to be a sb card. So I guess the question is whether or not lim dul's vault is a good enough tutor to win via show n tell vs. aggro.

[kinda]

Is there anything better than cloud of faeries to untap shelldock?

[Fons]

Is there anything better than cloud of faeries to untap shelldock?

I really don't think there is. Emidln pointed out that Cloud of Faeries also stops edict effects which is a strong point and you can always cycle it to enable.

[bruno_tiete]

I am probably bringind old news, but a friend mentioned some of you guys were thinking Amulet of Vigor wouldn't for some reason work with Isle. Well, it does.

CompRules regarding Hideaway:

Hideaway represents a static ability and a triggered ability. “Hideaway” means “This permanent enters the battlefield tapped” and “When this permanent enters the battlefield, look at the top four cards of your library. Exile one of them face down and put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order. The exiled card gains ‘Any player who has controlled the permanent that exiled this card may look at this card in the exile zone.’”

It doesn't matter whether or not the permanent enters the battlefield tapped. Even if it did, Amulet of Vigor has a triggered ability, which would trigger at the same time as Hideaway would, so there is not a single reason to believe otherwise.

Keep up the good work. This deck is fun.

[kinda]

Ah cool, I was still under the impression that it didn't work...but amulet and cloud both need 2 mana sources before shelldock to be useful, so cloud probably gets the nod. Anyway, has anyone had any success with a shelldrazi build not using led?

[Tokobotenkai]

Ah cool, I was still under the impression that it didn't work...but amulet and cloud both need 2 mana sources before shelldock to be useful, so cloud probably gets the nod. Anyway, has anyone had any success with a shelldrazi build not using led?

Ditto-ed on this.

The list I'm trying (thanks to emidln) drops LED and IGG, and keeping only to UB. Runs more Emrakul, 4 S&T, a couple of Chrome Mox and a singleton cloud of faeries.

[median]

I completely missed clouds interaction with edict; I've been using twiddle to tap karakas/wasteland or untap shelldock. Now I'm back to the drawing board.

Just inso far as the deck being dead with MT banned. Burning Wish works, Lim-Dul's Vault works, and if you need it Personal Tutor works. This deck is doing just fine.

[kinda]

Ditto-ed on this.

The list I'm trying (thanks to emidln) drops LED and IGG, and keeping only to UB. Runs more Emrakul, 4 S&T, a couple of Chrome Mox and a singleton cloud of faeries.

Would you mind sharing the list?

[Tokobotenkai]

Would you mind sharing the list?

A rough list of mine (thanks to emidln) is here:

// Lands
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Shelldock Isle

// Creatures
1 Cloud of Faeries
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Other Spells
4 Doomsday
4 Show and Tell
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony

Still working on the list though.

[kinda]

That looks really good...how hurt has the tendrils win been with that list?

[mercc]

A rough list of mine (thanks to emidln) is here:

// Lands
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Shelldock Isle

// Creatures
1 Cloud of Faeries
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Other Spells
4 Doomsday
4 Show and Tell
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony

Still working on the list though.

How are you piling for the storm win?

[death]

I read somewhere a "homebrew" Doomsday T8'd at the GP with 1-of Lotus Petal and EE maindeck. I'd seriously suggest cutting 2x Sunken Ruins 1x Shelldock and replace them with Wastelands. Tempo-Doomsday ftw!

[Tokobotenkai]

I read somewhere a "homebrew" Doomsday T8'd at the GP with 1-of Lotus Petal and EE maindeck. I'd seriously suggest cutting 2x Sunken Ruins 1x Shelldock and replace them with Wastelands. Tempo-Doomsday ftw!

Yea it was a seriously wtf moment when many of us saw the list lol.

Christopher Gosselin's Show and Tell
Legacy - Top 8 - Grand Prix–Columbus
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/td/102

// 20 Lands
1 Island
3 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Shelldock Isle
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
4 Underground Sea

// 4 Creatures
1 Cloud of Faeries
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// 36 Other Spells
4 Brainstorm
2 Dark Ritual
4 Doomsday
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Lotus Petal
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Shared Fate
3 Show and Tell
1 Solitary Confinement
3 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle
3 Thoughtseize

// 15 Sideboard
1 Armageddon
1 Dark Ritual
2 Extirpate
1 Form of the Dragon
3 Hydroblast
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Show and Tell
1 Snap
2 Solitary Confinement

[Parax]

I've been trolling the boards for a while now, and this caught my eye. I've actually been toying with a deck like this for a while now, and since seeing the Columbus report i've come up with a great deck.

I've found that the deck hovers at around 1-2 so you can enevitably run countertop. Top helps you get what you want when you need it, Counterbalance is more or less for lack of a better card in my build but it does work fine. Also Lim-Duls Vault will allow you to search for your doomsday when you are without it.

I really love the deck since i've started tinkering with it. And glad to have seen it top8 and that others are playing around with it too.

[death]

Interesting, since you'd be playing a control-ish shell with Doomsday as wincon, might as well keep the plan basic and leave Show and Tell behind. You should run a complete set of tops, + 1 Helm of Awakening, + Brainfreeze. When your opponents have spells that can deal with Emrakul, just brainfreeze them out of the game.

[martyr]

Interesting, since you'd be playing a control-ish shell with Doomsday as wincon, might as well keep the plan basic and leave Show and Tell behind. You should run a complete set of tops, + 1 Helm of Awakening, + Brainfreeze. When your opponents have spells that can deal with Emrakul, just brainfreeze them out of the game.

I could see this being pretty solid too, but assuming you're running a Cloud of Faeries, you have protection from an edict effect. I can only think of a few decks that run more than one edict effect main, and they'd need to have 2+ in hand, you'd need to have no answer to 2+ of them, and they'd need enough mana after an attack by Emrakul to play at least two of them. Given that you're playing Force of Will, Thoughtseize, and some other forms of protection (like Counterbalance, in this proposed build)...I guess my question is what situation would require a storm win and would justify watering down the deck with a storm win?

A Counterbalance core seems like a good direction to take the deck, but I see no reason to add additional win conditions that are predicated on a Doomsday resolving, because if one does, you're pretty much golden.

[death]

I'm expecting hate against Emrakul to rise after Columbus. Without mystical tutor, having a 2-card solution to resolved hosers like Ensnaring Bridge, Meekstone, Oblivion Ring, Jace TMS, Humility is kinda cool.

[kinda]

I could see this being pretty solid too, but assuming you're running a Cloud of Faeries, you have protection from an edict effect. I can only think of a few decks that run more than one edict effect main, and they'd need to have 2+ in hand, you'd need to have no answer to 2+ of them, and they'd need enough mana after an attack by Emrakul to play at least two of them. Given that you're playing Force of Will, Thoughtseize, and some other forms of protection (like Counterbalance, in this proposed build)...I guess my question is what situation would require a storm win and would justify watering down the deck with a storm win?

A Counterbalance core seems like a good direction to take the deck, but I see no reason to add additional win conditions that are predicated on a Doomsday resolving, because if one does, you're pretty much golden.


Sadly I have to disagree about the whole doomsday resolving and you're golden thing. I was testing a snt/dday deck without a
storm win (see the last post of page 5 for my list...though it was updated after testing, added ldv, cloud, etc.). Here's a quote I posted somewhere...

"The first problem I had in testing doomsday-->emrakul was that I absoluetely needed a cantrip to play it the same turn. Short of dedicated control the decks were few and far between that I could survive two turns on 10 or less life. Even with a cantrip I was still have difficulty not getting alpha striked the turn after doomsday. After turn two (and really turn 1 vs. anything with dedicated burn) playing doomsday required me to win that turn via faeries. Hell, I put a nourishing shoal in the deck at one point to put in some stacks to buy a turn (it played snt/progenitus too). The second problem was just how weak shelldock isle turned out to be...pithing needle became critical as wasteland, rishadan port, and an active knight of the reliquary stopped it. Also moon effects were bad, and there were a bunch of ways to get yourself milled...fog effects like chant, stifle on shelldock, six permanents and a maze of ith or kor haven...etc...So basically the decks I didn't want to go for doomsday became: goblins, merfolk, zoo, canadian thresh, new horizons, the rock, stax with maze or kor haven, quinn, dragon stompy, imperial painter, storm decks...and probably some others."

With that being said the GP list was obviously much more focused on the dday win then mine and running multiple shelldock's/solitary confinement is tech, but relying on a 5cc permanent to not get milled (and looking at the gp report apparently we have to add standstill to that list) is weak...overall point being that resolving dday is not gg.

Oh and death's point is important too...there's going to be emrakul hate you have to deal with now too on top of shelldock hate...

Edit: Rishadan Port is mentioned in the quote but it's not a problem.

[Tokobotenkai]

Sadly I have to disagree about the whole doomsday resolving and you're golden thing. I was testing a snt/dday deck without a
storm win (see the last post of page 5 for my list...though it was updated after testing, added ldv, cloud, etc.). Here's a quote I posted somewhere...

"The first problem I had in testing doomsday-->emrakul was that I absoluetely needed a cantrip to play it the same turn. Short of dedicated control the decks were few and far between that I could survive two turns on 10 or less life. Even with a cantrip I was still have difficulty not getting alpha striked the turn after doomsday. After turn two (and really turn 1 vs. anything with dedicated burn) playing doomsday required me to win that turn via faeries. Hell, I put a nourishing shoal in the deck at one point to put in some stacks to buy a turn (it played snt/progenitus too). The second problem was just how weak shelldock isle turned out to be...pithing needle became critical as wasteland, rishadan port, and an active knight of the reliquary stopped it. Also moon effects were bad, and there were a bunch of ways to get yourself milled...fog effects like chant, stifle on shelldock, six permanents and a maze of ith or kor haven...etc...So basically the decks I didn't want to go for doomsday became: goblins, merfolk, zoo, canadian thresh, new horizons, the rock, stax with maze or kor haven, quinn, dragon stompy, imperial painter, storm decks...and probably some others."

With that being said the GP list was obviously much more focused on the dday win then mine and running multiple shelldock's/solitary confinement is tech, but relying on a 5cc permanent to not get milled (and looking at the gp report apparently we have to add standstill to that list) is weak...overall point being that resolving dday is not gg.

Oh and death's point is important too...there's going to be emrakul hate you have to deal with now too on top of shelldock hate...

Edit: Rishadan Port is mentioned in the quote but it's not a problem.

What's your current list and how are your testing with LDV? I'm actually running 4 ponders, 3 IT, but no LDV.

Your MUs sounds like game 1.

After that usually we tend to board out stuff for the S&T plan (control) etc

Goblins and Zoo I just go for the storm route, I have never used the emrakul route.

Stax, Quinn, Dragon stompy I drop LED for S&T, recalls/rebuild.

The other decks I can't say, as I rarely play with them to get a definite SB out.

[kinda]

Lim-dul's vault is excellent when you're running a full complement of emrakul/show and tell. I haven't tested a tendrils version, but since I'm expecting emrakul hate in the near future I've started researching doomsday/tendrils (any pointers appreciated)...though between the mystical tutor ban and the gp I felt that lim-dul's vault/snt->emrakul/progenitus/form of the dragon plan was strong enough against the field that the tendrils win wouldn't add much to the deck. Basically the tendrils plan is excellent against decks light on protection or with a slow clock...but so was the snt plan, and that one didn't open the deck up to storm hate/counterbalance (minus thoptertop since that deck has a much easier time assembling counterbalance with a 3 drop on top, but its going to be a problem deck regardless). Anyway, if anyone doesn't want to bother learning the doomsday->tendrils intricacies I thought midrange doomsday could be an interesting take on the deck...I was messing with this some and am not sure what direction the sb should take the deck (ok or even the md to an extent). You just need to side out the 7 combo pieces and the deck becomes eva green splash blue...which leaves 8 slots to transform the deck into dedicated combo (by taking out 8 creatures)...and there's always the tranditional sb option which I provided a rough sketch of, the deck decently curves out so cb works for the most part.

Lands
1 [LRW] Shelldock Isle
1 [U] Tropical Island
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [6E] Swamp (2)
4 [U] Underground Sea
2 [R] Bayou
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest

// Creatures
4 [TO] Nantuko Shade
4 [M10] Hypnotic Specter
1 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [DDC] Duress
4 [WL] Doomsday
4 [DDE] Dark Ritual
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FUT] Tombstalker
SB: 4 [FNM] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [BOK] Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 3 [CS] Counterbalance
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [CS] Deathmark

Edit: Misty rainforest should be a black fetch...it's a relic from when I tired to incorporate dryad arbor/culling the weak or diabolic intent...

[Mystical_Jackass]

Sweet, this must mean that it finally isn't taboo to discuss non-Storm Shelldock ;)

Let me know if Hippie is worth it for you. I really found Daze to work well. Me and another friend at our local tourneys ran 3x Tombstalkers, it fits into the deck really well. He also ran a playset of maindeck stifle (protection from wastes + etc) and 1x Dreadnaught, which I thought was pretty sick. I probably would have but I didn't own any. You might wanna try a lot more countermagic, the more the merrier, for the times you do go first turn doomsday it's good to have free counters like FoW for when they get to timewalk a turn till you get Emrakul.

[kinda]

:cool: (a snt list w/o tendrils was discussed some before, see my post at the bottom of page 5 and the responses)

Yeah after thinking about it an early hippie sounds nice but it really needs counter protection. Tombstalker seems good but I wouldn't want to run more than 2 (maybe 3's ok), and after looking over the eva green creatures played on deckcheck I wasn't impressed with anything...so I'm deciding between jace, pernicious deed, and threads of disloyalty for the last 2 spots. The deck can't support wasteland and doesn't win fast enough to utilize daze...on that note a t1 doomsday is usually disastrous as that plan loses to wasteland, burn, and lots of other problems I described three or so posts ago. In my limited testing you want 6 mana, an open land drop, and a top or brainstorm before comboing, so you don't have to pass the turn. Of course though there will be plenty of situations where you can reason that an earlier dday is acceptable.

The protection package I guess is debatable but thoughtseize/hymn seem really strong to me. Seize's ability to see the opponents hand and know if ddaying is safe or what u need in your pile is very valuable (as pithing need/pulse/board answers can deal with most problems)...hymn is definately debatable but in my experience the card is too single handedly devastating not to play. I'm also not a stifle fan, especially without wasteland. My list obviously can't support force, but I'm curious to see how your list looks.

Edit: possibly lorescale coatl...

[Tokobotenkai]

Lim-dul's vault is excellent when you're running a full complement of emrakul/show and tell. I haven't tested a tendrils version, but since I'm expecting emrakul hate in the near future I've started researching doomsday/tendrils (any pointers appreciated)...though between the mystical tutor ban and the gp I felt that lim-dul's vault/snt->emrakul/progenitus/form of the dragon plan was strong enough against the field that the tendrils win wouldn't add much to the deck. Basically the tendrils plan is excellent against decks light on protection or with a slow clock...but so was the snt plan, and that one didn't open the deck up to storm hate/counterbalance (minus thoptertop since that deck has a much easier time assembling counterbalance with a 3 drop on top, but its going to be a problem deck regardless). Anyway, if anyone doesn't want to bother learning the doomsday->tendrils intricacies I thought midrange doomsday could be an interesting take on the deck...I was messing with this some and am not sure what direction the sb should take the deck (ok or even the md to an extent). You just need to side out the 7 combo pieces and the deck becomes eva green splash blue...which leaves 8 slots to transform the deck into dedicated combo (by taking out 8 creatures)...and there's always the tranditional sb option which I provided a rough sketch of, the deck decently curves out so cb works for the most part.

Edit: Misty rainforest should be a black fetch...it's a relic from when I tired to incorporate dryad arbor/culling the weak or diabolic intent...

Tendrils actually is for those with little disruption or protection BUT it is for decks with a fast clock, as most of the time when you resolve doomsday, you win on the spot.

The list I run, has both the storm win con and shelldock/S&T route, which dependent on deck, you choose between storm and S&T.

Actually Blazing Archon is a much better choice than Form of the Dragon for many MUs, at least from many storm players experience on the storm boards.

Hmm, a rock/midrange build looks interesting, but I agree with a more heavy counterspell build.

Also, other ideas would be to splash green or white for xantid swarm or chant.

[nodahero]

Blazing archon is good but the new blue leviathan is better. He gets to hit directly essentially... no blocking is 1337 when trying to keep your main man alive (yourself) not to mention his ass is bigger.

[kinda]

@ tobo: Snt is very good against zoo/goblins as well. Aside from death and taxes I'm not aware of any matchup pre-gp (pre potential emrakul hate) that tendrils is good against and dedicated snt is not.

I tested the md snt/tendrils list you posted and it really seemed like you had to go with the win you got in your opener. With zoo/goblins goldfishing t4 now and countertop thopter being fairly strong at getting counterbalance out with a 3 drop on top...there isn't much time to find your 3 of emrakul and 4 snt. I never actually tried for the tendrils win but I'm assuming getting emrakul pieces in your hand has a similar effect on your tendrils plans.

Wiat, why is blazing archon better? I know archon doesn't open you up to krosan grip but dragon is used in situations where a creature win is going to be tough...ensnaring bridge, humility, prisons, edict effect...and against daze aggro as they usually can't deal with it. Archon's also not maindeckable...

Yeah it tested out pretty well after I took out hippie...unfortunately I don't think I will have internet access for the next week or so after tomorrow but I intend to test it again when I do. My list ran green for tarmo/krosan grip/pulse. My list wasn't dedicted to the combo enough to warrant swarm or chant. I really don't see how the deck could support force, the only blue creature that seems to have potential is lorescale coatl and you need to run doomsday. Top could be ponder in a pinch but cutting dark rit really hurts the ability to combo without passing the turn. I really wouldn't mind if anyone proved me wrong though.

@ noda: leviathan doesn't stop merfolk.

[Mystical_Jackass]

:cool: (a snt list w/o tendrils was discussed some before, see my post at the bottom of page 5 and the responses)

Yeah after thinking about it an early hippie sounds nice but it really needs counter protection. Tombstalker seems good but I wouldn't want to run more than 2 (maybe 3's ok), and after looking over the eva green creatures played on deckcheck I wasn't impressed with anything...so I'm deciding between jace, pernicious deed, and threads of disloyalty for the last 2 spots. The deck can't support wasteland and doesn't win fast enough to utilize daze...on that note a t1 doomsday is usually disastrous as that plan loses to wasteland, burn, and lots of other problems I described three or so posts ago. In my limited testing you want 6 mana, an open land drop, and a top or brainstorm before comboing, so you don't have to pass the turn. Of course though there will be plenty of situations where you can reason that an earlier dday is acceptable.

The protection package I guess is debatable but thoughtseize/hymn seem really strong to me. Seize's ability to see the opponents hand and know if ddaying is safe or what u need in your pile is very valuable (as pithing need/pulse/board answers can deal with most problems)...hymn is definately debatable but in my experience the card is too single handedly devastating not to play. I'm also not a stifle fan, especially without wasteland. My list obviously can't support force, but I'm curious to see how your list looks.

Edit: possibly lorescale coatl...

To the best of my knowledge, this was the list I ran a long while back. Went 3-1 that tourney, but mind you this was like April or something so literally nobody had heard of the combo there.

Lands (17)
7 Fetchland
4 Underground Sea
5 Islands
1 Shelldock Isle

Draw/Accel (19)
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Control (16)
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
4 Duress
2 Smother


Finishers (8)
3 Tombstalker
4 Doomsday
1 Emrakul, the Eons Torn


Yeah, obviously mystical's out, it was randomly thrown in as sorta a 5th DD. Pretty much my concept was to focus on getting that turn 1-2 Doomsday early enough where my "free" countermagic negated any attempt for them to respond. Just the presence of Daze is fine with me, I want them to be scared to play anything first couple turns... in fact, maybe I'll board it out game 2 in the future to just mess iwth them :smile:. Many times the element of surprise was enough to win game 1, but Tombstalker was very great game 2 when they bring in meddling mages and more duress/seizes or simply as a backup, he could come out as little as turn 2 and put them on a clock. Racing aggro decks with Stalker is fairly doable, even though turn 7+ doesn't seem that fast, but with daze backed up by plenty of control it's deffinitely doable. I would deffinitely change a lot though if I were to build it back now though. Nantuko Shade seems like a pretty good adition and fits in great with rit

[Tokobotenkai]

@ tobo: Snt is very good against zoo/goblins as well. Aside from death and taxes I'm not aware of any matchup pre-gp (pre potential emrakul hate) that tendrils is good against and dedicated snt is not.

I tested the md snt/tendrils list you posted and it really seemed like you had to go with the win you got in your opener. With zoo/goblins goldfishing t4 now and countertop thopter being fairly strong at getting counterbalance out with a 3 drop on top...there isn't much time to find your 3 of emrakul and 4 snt. I never actually tried for the tendrils win but I'm assuming getting emrakul pieces in your hand has a similar effect on your tendrils plans.

Wiat, why is blazing archon better? I know archon doesn't open you up to krosan grip but dragon is used in situations where a creature win is going to be tough...ensnaring bridge, humility, prisons, edict effect...and against daze aggro as they usually can't deal with it. Archon's also not maindeckable...

Oh you were looking at my old and slower list.

// Lands
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
5 Swamp
1 Island
1 Shelldock Isle

// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Cloud of Faeries

// Spells
4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ponder
3 Infernal Tutor
4 Doomsday
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Show and Tell
SB: 2 Blazing Archon
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Deathmark
SB: 1 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Huryl's Recall


I personally find the S&T route far too slow, since I only run 1 Emrakul preboard (I have 2 in SB). Yes, I do go for whatever win con I have in my opening hand, usually LED>IT>DD>(dependent on storm count and mana/things in play)IGG or cantrips to get the remainder storm count>Tendrils. The deck is loads faster with LEDs, I go off on turn 2-4, occasionally on turn 1.

Blazing archon can be S&T in.

Here's the reasons why I would use blazing archon.


Blazing Archon is useful vs merfolk and they don't have any maindeck outs to it unlike form of the dragon where they maindeck at least 4 creatures that can fly and get bigger than archon.
Blazing Archon can be sided in vs zoo because zoo sides out their paths and it buys you time.
Blazing Archon is better against Dredge.


Well, regarding hate like bridge and like. That's the reason why I have 2 routes. Dependent on deck. Also, I rather use stuff like Wipe Away in the DD pile to bounce the hate (like how you do against meddling mages for storm) then Swing FTW. But further testing needs to be shown on that department, my meta has very few combo, let alone emrakul decks.

EDIT:
I'm now working on a list that allows the inclusion of FoW, like the original Rev614.

[frenchy-man]

Why don't you like the list that made top 8 at colombus ? Ok there some slots that have to be changed, but the core of the deck is very interesting. I am testing it, with +1 S&T, +1 land (btw, awful mana base, I changed it, one shelldock island is sufficient, sunken ruins are so bad, etc...), +1 ponder (it could and probably should be somthing like wipe away or snap), -1 EE, -1 shared fate (lawl), -1 lotus petal.

It is very consistent and I do understand how he made top eight, especially regarding the fact that most players he met probably did not know the deck before

[Tokobotenkai]

Why don't you like the list that made top 8 at colombus ? Ok there some slots that have to be changed, but the core of the deck is very interesting. I am testing it, with +1 S&T, +1 land (btw, awful mana base, I changed it, one shelldock island is sufficient, sunken ruins are so bad, etc...), +1 ponder (it could and probably should be somthing like wipe away or snap), -1 EE, -1 shared fate (lawl), -1 lotus petal.

It is very consistent and I do understand how he made top eight, especially regarding the fact that most players he met probably did not know the deck before

Haha, the storm players upon seeing his list was like wtf? His deck was a shelldock/S&T with a heavy control shell, btw for his list you should add 1-2 LEDs. It will help to smoothen the mana requirements to go off.

It is also a meta decision and personal preference =) If you like his list go ahead.

Emrakul is more likely to work vs Tempo Thresh, Chalice Aggro (Dragon Stompy, Faerie Stompy, Mono Green Chalice), and Stax (in addition to being strong vs CB). Of course, DD->Emrakul might not be stellar in some of these matchups, but just dropping the guy into play is a fine play in almost all of them.

We don't need to race aggro with S&T. We kill them with Tendrils. Merfolk is the exception, but having 3 Emrakul, 2 Blazing Archon goes a long way towards finding your two card combo quickly and putting something large and hard to deal with into play fast against them.

[kinda]

@mystical: I like shade but 19 blue sources is already borderline for supporting fow so you'd probably have to cut some petals, duress, or smother's. Lim-dul's vault seems like a good mystical tutor and possibly counterspell replacement...it can find dday and tombstalker which is nice. A cloud of faeries to combo without passing the turn seems good, and its blue...without stifle a pithing needle seems important.

@ tobo: Yeah with no tutors to find snt/creatures and only 5 creatures, the snt plan doesn't seem worth it in that build. At the very least I'd try to incorporate lim-dul's vault or burning wish into the md.

Good points in regards to blazing archon...if I ever work on a dedicated snt list again, and coralhelm/dredge are around, archon will be in the 75.

@ frenchy: The viability of the deck depends on whether or not people start packing emrakul hate...one problem piece can usually be dealt with but multiples are a big problem. Emrakul was a really solid plan for the GP since no one was packing hate for it. If emrakul hate doesn't show up I maintain that a dedicated snt list (like the snt+lim-dul's vault+personal tutor lists in the apo thread and probably a list similar to the dday gp list, though i'd have to test it as my dday/snt list w/o tendrils wasn't consistent enough against zoo) is better then a tendrils list. If hate does show up having the tendrils win or incorporating the combo into a midrange deck (which intitially at least seems surprisingly viable) is the better call.

[frenchy-man]

Yeah I do understand what you mean. But the fact is that first the emracool hate is not so much played, second the deck plays many counters/discards/stifle. What's more the DD kill allows to escape from some hate (jace, sower, Oring, and everything not instant-speed).
Btw, I will probably do -2 DD, +2 personal tutor in my main, cause I am too often short on black manas.

What's more, I don't understand why you would play the tendrill-combo way. I mean, if you wanna tendrill your opponent, just play TES, which is stronger for this plan, and that can easily play DD emrakul at least in SB.

[Tokobotenkai]

Yeah I do understand what you mean. But the fact is that first the emracool hate is not so much played, second the deck plays many counters/discards/stifle. What's more the DD kill allows to escape from some hate (jace, sower, Oring, and everything not instant-speed).
Btw, I will probably do -2 DD, +2 personal tutor in my main, cause I am too often short on black manas.

What's more, I don't understand why you would play the tendrill-combo way. I mean, if you wanna tendrill your opponent, just play TES, which is stronger for this plan, and that can easily play DD emrakul at least in SB.

It's a personal preference and metagame, my meta has quite a few stax and aggro, where you will board out shelldock/emrakul for aggro and board out tendrils against stax =)

Anyway why not splash red for burning wish? You can drop a copy of S&T, DD and like in the SB for tutoring too.

[MoonDark]

Guys didin't this deck made a placing in Columbus big event ? ( T8 )

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37329

EDIT: noticed you guys already saw the list.

[Tokobotenkai]

Guys didin't this deck made a placing in Columbus big event ? ( T8 )

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=37329

Yes it did. But doesn't mean the list is optimal. It still needs tuning.

[MoonDark]

I'm really interested in this deck, will start testing :-)

What would be a good starting list to begin experimenting with ?

[frenchy-man]

Yeah I do understand what you mean. But the fact is that first the emracool hate is not so much played, second the deck plays many counters/discards/stifle. What's more the DD kill allows to escape from some hate (jace, sower, Oring, and everything not instant-speed).
Btw, I will probably do -2 DD, +2 personal tutor in my main, cause I am too often short on black manas.

What's more, I don't understand why you would play the tendrill-combo way. I mean, if you wanna tendrill your opponent, just play TES, which is stronger for this plan, and that can easily play DD emrakul at least in SB.


Personal tutor seems better to burning. Indeed, it is a turn one play, so that one can DD/S&T on turn two. It is also a blue card, important to get active forces. What's more it does not weaken our sideboard. So I would play PT before playing BW.

[Tokobotenkai]

Personal tutor seems better to burning. Indeed, it is a turn one play, so that one can DD/S&T on turn two. It is also a blue card, important to get active forces. What's more it does not weaken our sideboard. So I would play PT before playing BW.

Personal Tutor only grabs sorceries, it's not a sorcery speed m tutor.

And the issue with P tutor is that your opponent knows what you are grabbing and has a turn to think of how to deal with it, unlike the EOT M tutor in the past.

BW on the other hand, is kinda like a demonic tutor which drops the card you want into your hand immediately.

Also note that your build, shelldock/S&T emrakul with a control shell, does not aim to go off asap, but more to control the board and win with emrakul, going off too early would not give you good insight on what your opponent is playing so as to make preparations. =)

[Lammina]

Hi all!

I have some questions to do:

1) The GP list is good or not?

2) Why?

3) The combo Shared Fate + Solitary Confinement is valid? I can discard the card of my oppnent? If not, why shared fate and solitary confinement are present in the list?

4) Daze is a good card or not in Shelldrazi (for example the GP list dont have anyone)?

Thank you,

Lammina!

[Lammina]

Hi all!

I have some questions to do:

1) The GP list is good or not?

2) Why?

3) The combo Shared Fate + Solitary Confinement is valid? I can discard the card of my oppnent? If not, why shared fate and solitary confinement are present in the list?

4) Daze is a good card or not in Shelldrazi (for example the GP list dont have anyone)?

Thank you,

Lammina!

Please, someone can help me?

I build this deck (gp list) and the questions I made are very importants...

The 5 cards, after Doomsday are very difficult to choose and the options are diferent against much decks.

If someone could help me answer my questions and with the 5 cards, thank you!

Cyah,

Lammina!

[kinda]

Alright, well...

1) Depends.

2) The last couple pages here somewhat explains this one...my belief is that as long as the there isn't too much emrakul hate the deck is good, and if emrakul hate does pop up you want to add the tendrils win or make the deck midrange like the list I posted. (this is all assuming you want the shelldrazi combo)

3) That's not a combo...they're good in different situations, but both stop you from milling yourself.

4) Daze is awful in shelldrazi. The best hate cards are thoughtseize, force of will, duress, and spell pierce. There is a strong case to be made for the stifles to be a pithing needle and 2 something else.

[Lammina]

Alright, well...

1) Depends.

2) The last couple pages here somewhat explains this one...my belief is that as long as the there isn't too much emrakul hate the deck is good, and if emrakul hate does pop up you want to add the tendrils win or make the deck midrange like the list I posted. (this is all assuming you want the shelldrazi combo)

3) That's not a combo...they're good in different situations, but both stop you from milling yourself.

4) Daze is awful in shelldrazi. The best hate cards are thoughtseize, force of will, duress, and spell pierce. There is a strong case to be made for the stifles to be a pithing needle and 2 something else.

I can use shared fate + s. confinement together? The effect of shared f. can be use with the s. confinement?

Can you tell me in what kind of situation shared fate is good? I have being trouble in find someone...

Thank you,

Lammina.

[Tokobotenkai]

Alright, well...

2) The last couple pages here somewhat explains this one...my belief is that as long as the there isn't too much emrakul hate the deck is good, and if emrakul hate does pop up you want to add the tendrils win or make the deck midrange like the list I posted. (this is all assuming you want the shelldrazi combo)

4) Daze is awful in shelldrazi. The best hate cards are thoughtseize, force of will, duress, and spell pierce. There is a strong case to be made for the stifles to be a pithing needle and 2 something else.

2) I'm not too sure how familiar you guys are with doomsday piles, but yea, do you guys know you can add tendrils into a emrakul pile? Meaning you timewalk with emrakul and draw into something like duress, rit and tendrils, leaving a top as the only card in your library. So you swing for 15 then cast rit>duress>tendrils. Of course, you have to count your mana and cantrips correctly with no room for mistake like all doomsday builds.

4) I completely agree. Actually, stifles could be replaced for needles (you'll build a pile with a needle plus maybe duress/pierce) then you duress and needle waste before going into shelldock.

[mercc]

Scenario.

Turn 1
Me, Underground sea.
Him, Scalding tarn, activate. Me stifle

Turn 2
Me, Land, ritual doomsday.
Expecting him, Wasteland

Was playing against merfolk.

How do you build a pile to win this?

[Jaynel]

Why wouldn't you hold the Stifle, knowing that there's a decent chance he has a Wasteland?

[mercc]

Why wouldn't you hold the Stifle, knowing that there's a decent chance he has a Wasteland?

Well, after the game I obviously thought of that. :)

But i topdecked the ritual so I didn't know that I could ritual -> doomsday the turn after.

I just wanted to keep him off mana, off tempo. No cursecatcher or vial that turn. Or being able to daze or spell pierce.

[kinda]

I was throwing hymn/firespout into several decks and this worked pretty well...partly inspired by mystical's list. I'm not sure if terminate should be bolt or edict.

Lands
3 [R] Badlands
3 [U] Underground Sea
1 [R] Volcanic Island
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [6E] Swamp (2)
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [LRW] Shelldock Isle

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tombstalker
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [UL] Cloud of Faeries

// Spells
4 [ARB] Terminate
4 [DDE] Dark Ritual
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
4 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [WL] Doomsday
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [SHM] Firespout
4 [AT] Hymn to Tourach

[sillysam71]

There seems to be quite a few people that are very confused by this deck, if you are one of them, GO TO THE LINK BELOW:

http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=437

Click on the "Doomsday with Chris Gosselin" video and watch it. This is his deck tech from GP Columbus.

He explains how to make a standard Doomsday pile and what everything else in the deck is for, as well as a few changes he would make.

If you haven't watched this yet, DO IT! It's very helpful and informative.

[Bahamuth]

His list is terrible. The Confinement and Shared fate are complete bullshit. Just saying.

[sillysam71]

@Bahamuth: So I'm assuming that you have a better list that got top 8 at a large tourny? Have you tested his list?

Just saying that something is bad is not helping.

I'm definitely not saying that his list is perfect, but it is the best finish that this deck has had. If anything, it should be a building point to expand from.

[Bahamuth]

@Bahamuth: So I'm assuming that you have a better list that got top 8 at a large tourny? Have you tested his list?

Just saying that something is bad is not helping.

I'm definitely not saying that his list is perfect, but it is the best finish that this deck has had. If anything, it should be a building point to expand from.

You'll already have a better list when you replace the Confinement and Shared Fate with cards that actually do something. I haven't tested his list, but I have tested plenty of UBr Doomsday lists that can win through Emrakul and Tendrils of Agony. I suggest checking the Fetchland Tendrils thread for a good list.

[kinda]

There seems to be quite a few people that are very confused by this deck, if you are one of them, GO TO THE LINK BELOW:

http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=437

Click on the "Doomsday with Chris Gosselin" video and watch it. This is his deck tech from GP Columbus.

He explains how to make a standard Doomsday pile and what everything else in the deck is for, as well as a few changes he would make.

If you haven't watched this yet, DO IT! It's very helpful and informative.

Except for the people who only wanted to play the deck after its GP finish, the people on this thread do actually know how to use that card, :smile:. Now if you read the last 2-3 pages you'll begin to understand that people are hesitant to run a deck that only wins with emrakul and has so many slots dedicated to the combos (the obvious awkward pieces being shared fate/solitary confinement and stifle over pithing needle). The midrange lists like my two and mystical's can win via beatdown supported by protection...and tobo's/bahamut's also has the tendrils win. The tendril's lists have had success such as at German nationals...and I'm not sure if anyone except Mystical has played a midrange list, but he did have success with his.

[sillysam71]

@kinda: I primarily posted that link to help out people who aren't experienced with Doomsday. (I hope it helped a few)

As for myself, I played DDFT at GP Columbus, so I'm already hooked on Doomsday. I posted the list that I played on the DDFT thread. It's only a page back.

This thread seems to be going in many different directions, though. I guess it just depends if you want a more controlling shell or a midrange shell. Personally, I'm testing the control shell. FoW + DD is just too appealling for me to turn down. But I don't like how Chris Gosselin's deck could only win with Emrakul. I'm gonna try and SB, or even mainboard, a standard DD pile with Meditate, Tendrils and such. I really want to use LED, but with the control shell, it shuts down all of your countermagic. I'm going to mess around with it some more tonight after work, hopefully I can make some progress.

[sillysam71]

After some testing, I'm going to have to agree with you Bahamuth. lol Solitary Confinement and Shared Fate are horrible in the deck.

I think the main reason that the GP list made top 8 was because it was such a surprise deck. Now that people know about it, it's not as good. Every now and then, it just won and was broken, but usually I didn't feel like I was well-positioned while playing it.

[Lammina]

@kinda: I primarily posted that link to help out people who aren't experienced with Doomsday. (I hope it helped a few)

As for myself, I played DDFT at GP Columbus, so I'm already hooked on Doomsday. I posted the list that I played on the DDFT thread. It's only a page back.

This thread seems to be going in many different directions, though. I guess it just depends if you want a more controlling shell or a midrange shell. Personally, I'm testing the control shell. FoW + DD is just too appealling for me to turn down. But I don't like how Chris Gosselin's deck could only win with Emrakul. I'm gonna try and SB, or even mainboard, a standard DD pile with Meditate, Tendrils and such. I really want to use LED, but with the control shell, it shuts down all of your countermagic. I'm going to mess around with it some more tonight after work, hopefully I can make some progress.

@sillysam: I don´t like how the GP´s list could kill only with the Emraku, too. For another kill condition, I cut the EE and bring in on for the maindeck + 1 Helm of the Awakening and +1 Brain Freeze. I was playing with 61 cards. And, in the sideboard, I have 2 forms of kill: the form of the dragon, and the Helm of Obedience + Leyline of the void.

My actual list is basically the GP´s list, with little changes, and with good results:

Mainboard:

1 Cloud of Faries
3 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
----------------------------------------------------------- 04 Creatures
1 Lotus Petal
1 Helm of the Awakening
1 Shared Fate
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Brain Freeze
3 Dark Ritual
3 Show and Tell
3 Sensei´s Diving Top
3 Duress
3 Lim-Dul´s Vault
3 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle
4 Doomsday
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
--------------------------------------------------------------- 38 Spells
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Sunken Ruins
3 Marsh Flats
3 Shelldock Isle
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
--------------------------------------------------------------- 19 Lands
# 61

Sideboard:
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Show and Tell
1 Snap
1 Armageddon
1 Form of the Dragon
2 Extirpate
2 Solitary Confinement
2 Hidroblast
4 Leyline of the Void
# 15

IMO, I like the SF and the SC in the deck. SF could be in many piles of 5 cards, being the 5th card. In many piles, sometimes, you will only need 4 important cards to seal the game and the 5th card aren´t so important. In that cases, could you bring the SF or the SC for dont lose for deck over. It´s a idea.

Cyah,

Lammina

[Mystical_Jackass]

I was throwing hymn/firespout into several decks and this worked pretty well...partly inspired by mystical's list. I'm not sure if terminate should be bolt or edict.

Lands
3 [R] Badlands
3 [U] Underground Sea
1 [R] Volcanic Island
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [6E] Swamp (2)
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [LRW] Shelldock Isle

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tombstalker
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [UL] Cloud of Faeries

// Spells
4 [ARB] Terminate
4 [DDE] Dark Ritual
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
4 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [WL] Doomsday
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [SHM] Firespout
4 [AT] Hymn to Tourach

And I just got hosed by Firespout last tourney; bad memories, heh.

Not bad, I almost wonder about the 1x Pithing Needle. Let me know how that works out, or if you find yourself missing Force of Will--the great thing with top, of course, being able to play the Shelldock on the turn-of in one motion can be pretty nice.
What do you think about the land count at 20? Any potential to drop 1-2 lands?

Also, let me know if the Hymn of Tourach was worth it, or if something like 4x Duress would be more worth it? I'm more thinking just in terms of the ability to "multi-task" those first couple turns with top and brainstorm.


I'm not sure if terminate should be bolt or edict.

Your call man, give it a shot... I'd wanna say maybe edict for that ocasion wasteland is an issue. With B/U I'd tested ghastly demise and smother; smother did a pretty good job, demise I only ended up using once... but I got a turn1 fetch+ demise on his heirarch which wasn't bad. (however, I probably wouldn't recommend it as a reliable card thereafter, 'cause of the dysergy with stalker)

[Deirex]

I've been testing a list similar to what Emidln posted a while ago but I haven't had the time to play it in tournaments.
My performance has been inconsistent but I think that is mostly my own fault as I always revert back to trying to play storm.

But if my list needs tuning I'd appreciate the help of fellow Source guys.

Right now I'm mostly thinking of adding Brain Freeze and Helm of Awakening to the maindeck, but maybe that would dilute the deck too much as it focuses a lot on more on Show And Tell then other lists I've seen.

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Cloud of Faeries

4 Doomsday
4 Show and Tell
3 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize

3 Lim-Dul’s Vault
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Dark Ritual

3 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
3 Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Shelldock Isle

[emidln]

Without 4 Lotus Petal and 4 Dark Ritual you are not fast enough to race aggro decks without resorting to garbage like Firespout. Extra Lotus Petals are also excellent for making Brainstorm piles able to actually cast that Cloud of Faeries if you already have some piece in hand. More than 2 Shelldock Isle aren't ever going to be necessary and I'd argue that even the 2nd is suboptimal. SDT isn't that good in the deck.Your cantrips should be Brainstorm/Ponder as 4-ofs and then fill out of the rest of the space with Preordain if you feel like you need extra cantrips. The pile to Emrakul this turn via shelldock/cloud of faeries with SDT costs more than the Brainstorm pile anyway without access to Lion's Eye Diamond. Wipe Away is necessary as it answers stuff like Jace/Humility/KoTR if they manage to turbo out stuff (Most of the UBW CB can do this if they get marginally lucky by turn 4) so that their critical card survives the annihilator trigger.

You probably don't want any more than 15-16 non-shelldock lands. Islands are a lot more important than Swamps, but you'll want at least one swamp to safely LDV and Thoughtseize.

FWIW, I gave up on this in favor of DDFT. Right now, early Doomsday for shelldock isn't safe in a game 1 unless you spend enough time to set it up with Pithing Needle and/or Cloud of Faeries.

[Deirex]

Without 4 Lotus Petal and 4 Dark Ritual you are not fast enough to race aggro decks without resorting to garbage like Firespout. Extra Lotus Petals are also excellent for making Brainstorm piles able to actually cast that Cloud of Faeries if you already have some piece in hand. More than 2 Shelldock Isle aren't ever going to be necessary and I'd argue that even the 2nd is suboptimal. SDT isn't that good in the deck.Your cantrips should be Brainstorm/Ponder as 4-ofs and then fill out of the rest of the space with Preordain if you feel like you need extra cantrips. The pile to Emrakul this turn via shelldock/cloud of faeries with SDT costs more than the Brainstorm pile anyway without access to Lion's Eye Diamond. Wipe Away is necessary as it answers stuff like Jace/Humility/KoTR if they manage to turbo out stuff (Most of the UBW CB can do this if they get marginally lucky by turn 4) so that their critical card survives the annihilator trigger.

You probably don't want any more than 15-16 non-shelldock lands. Islands are a lot more important than Swamps, but you'll want at least one swamp to safely LDV and Thoughtseize.

FWIW, I gave up on this in favor of DDFT. Right now, early Doomsday for shelldock isn't safe in a game 1 unless you spend enough time to set it up with Pithing Needle and/or Cloud of Faeries.


Thanks for all the input, it makes sense. I was worried about using too many Rituals since I can mostly only use them with DD anyway. I'll make most of those changes and start trying again.

I've just been having too much fun to give up on this deck this soon.
Thanks again!

[DragoFireheart]

Any updates and/or placings for this deck in any recent tournaments?

[emidln]

Thanks for all the input, it makes sense. I was worried about using too many Rituals since I can mostly only use them with DD anyway. I'll make most of those changes and start trying again.

I've just been having too much fun to give up on this deck this soon.
Thanks again!

Ritual is fine even with SnT since it lets you do it turn 2 off basic lands and pay for daze (either they Daze Ritual and you can go off next turn or they don't Daze Ritual and you have mana to pay for Daze on SnT).

[Deirex]

Thanks for the tips.

There's 3 big Legacy tournaments in one weekend soon here in Sweden, I'm testing something like this for it.

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Cloud of Faeries

4 Doomsday
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
3 Lim-Dul’s Vault
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual

1 Pithing Needle
3 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
3 Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Shelldock Isle

SB:
3 Pithing Needle
4 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
2 Wipe Away
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Extirpate
2 Yixlid Jailer

I've thought about adding Stifle to the deck but I'm not sure it would add anything, it just seems cute.

[Lammina]

Thanks for the tips.

There's 3 big Legacy tournaments in one weekend soon here in Sweden, I'm testing something like this for it.

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Cloud of Faeries

4 Doomsday
4 Show and Tell
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
3 Lim-Dul’s Vault
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual

1 Pithing Needle
3 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
3 Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Shelldock Isle

SB:
3 Pithing Needle
4 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
2 Wipe Away
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Extirpate
2 Yixlid Jailer

I've thought about adding Stifle to the deck but I'm not sure it would add anything, it just seems cute.

Hi everybody!

I have played with the deck for 3-4 months, and in champs I had this performance:
14-4-1

Is a awsome deck! In my 4 lost, 2 of these are thanks to my mystakes, and not for the deck.

The Shelldrazi NEEDS a good training for make the corrects pile for the doomsday. One wrong card and you lose!

See my list:

Deck: Aeons Doomsday – “Emrabakú´s Deck”
Mainboard:
1 Cloud of Faries
3 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
----------------------------------------------------------- 04 Creatures
1 Lotus Petal
1 Helm of the Awakening
1 Shared Fate
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Brain Freeze
3 Dark Ritual
3 Show and Tell
3 Sensei´s Diving Top
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lim-Dul´s Vault
3 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle
4 Doomsday
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
--------------------------------------------------------------- 39 Spells
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Sunken Ruins
3 Marsh Flats
3 Shelldock Isle
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
--------------------------------------------------------------- 18 Lands
# 61

Sideboard:
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Show and Tell
2 Blazing Archon
2 Form of the Dragon
2 Duress
3 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of the Void
# 15

My list is basically, the GP 2010 deck, without some cards (like the W splash) and wih more win cond (in main deck, I have the brain freeze + helm of awakwenig comobo against Rocks decks...the 4th show and tell in side, blazing archons, helm of obedience + leylines...) making the deck, IMO, A MACHINE!!!

Comments please!

Cyah,

Lammina

[sillysam71]

I've played this deck at two smaller tournaments in the past two weeks. About 16-20 people at each.

The list that I played is really similar to the one above, except i cut most of the one ofs to make playsets of the rest of the cards and have the back up combos in the side. I also don't play stifle anymore.

Last week I went 4-0, and this week I went 3-1. My only loss being to burn.

I've found burn to be an incredibly hard matchup for this deck. I'm 1-1 against burn in those two tournaments. Casting Doomsday usually equals suicide. I'm not sure what would be best to side in or even have in the main against burn, maybe BEBs or something. Burn has been fairly common at our tournaments lately, though. they always side in a shit ton of REBs, too, which makes the show and tell plan sooo much harder.Any ideas for this matchup?

[blaat]

I've found burn to be an incredibly hard matchup for this deck. I'm 1-1 against burn in those two tournaments. Casting Doomsday usually equals suicide. I'm not sure what would be best to side in or even have in the main against burn, maybe BEBs or something. Burn has been fairly common at our tournaments lately, though. they always side in a shit ton of REBs, too, which makes the show and tell plan sooo much harder.Any ideas for this matchup?

Let them chill out a bit.

[sillysam71]

Chill isn't a bad idea. I might have to try it out. Goblin Guide does some major damage, too. Maybe I need to put in a few BEBs.

[Aspirin]

I always maindeck 1 Solitary Confinement. It prevents you from going out of library after Doomsday and can buy a few turns against aggrodecks.

[sillysam71]

It doesn't stop burn, though. It's not easy to play it without a threat on the board, and by then you're dead against burn.

It can be good in the right situation, though. Personally, I don't see being in enough of those situations to make it entirely worth it.

[GoldenCid]

Can`t this deck deck be combined with tendryls of agony??

[ddt15]

So any news on this deck? Surely it must be competitive if its worst matchup is Burn (which I haven't seen anyone play in all of the Legacy tournaments I went to this year). Surivival is dead too so no more worries about getting hit for 12/16 after a Doomsday.

[Vandalize]

Hmm, what's your matchup against Spring Tide (or any other weird name this deck has)? It's a mid tier deck (rising after Time Spiral was unbanned), and can mill for 5 easily after you cast your Doomsday (FoW can't cover a brain freeze with storm count at 3+).

[Deirex]

Hmm, what's your matchup against Spring Tide (or any other weird name this deck has)? It's a mid tier deck (rising after Time Spiral was unbanned), and can mill for 5 easily after you cast your Doomsday (FoW can't cover a brain freeze with storm count at 3+).

Emrakul?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Posted this on the Storm Boards, figured I'd post it here as well.

Alright, I've been playing TES for a while but decided to change it up, so I took this list to my local yesterday:

Revelation 6:14

4 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Meditate
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Cloud of Faeries

4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
4 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Force of Will
1 Chain of Vapor

3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Swamp
2 Island

Sideboard
4 Show and Tell
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
1 Wipe Away
1 Pithing Needle


While I've goldfished this, DDFT, and NLS a bit, this was the first time I'd ever played Doomsday in a tournament. The Thoughtseizes in the board were supposed to be Misdirections but mine still haven't showed up in the mail for some reason. I went 3-0-1 in the Swiss, and then split top two with a friend after winning the first round of top four. Surprisingly, I faced only one blue deck (usually everyone at my store plays blue).

Round One - Metalcraft Aggro

Yeah, you read the name right. It's a pet deck of the store owner, and actually runs a lot of disruption for me, including main deck Canonists, Chalices, and Wastelands (maybe T-Sphere in the board too). I screw up with cantrips game one and am unable to assemble a winning hand before I get beat down by Phylactery Lich, Ethersworn Canonist, and Bob. I think I forced the first Canonist and then he dropped another the next turn. Anyways, I board out LEDs, Tendrils, Meditate, and some other random card for SnT + Emrakul. I get both game two and game three off the latter combination, but both games are rather close surprisingly. I was at one life game three.

2-1, 1-0 rounds

Round 2 - Goblins

He wins the roll and opens with T1 Lackey. I have T1 top. He swings and drops in Goblin Chieftain. I Dark Ritual -> LED -> LED -> Petal -> Doomsday into a Meditate stack and win. Game two he plays some dudes (I may have forced Lackey but I don't remember) and slows me down a bit with Rishadan Port. I fetch basics to avoid the Wasteland that was sitting in play. On turn four I build a Meditate stack with rituals, Brainstorm into it, and win.

2-0, 2-0 rounds

Round 3 - Eva Green

I win the roll and go T1 Dark Ritual -> Doomsday for a Shelldock pile. I have another land, Lotus Petal, and Cloud of Faeries in my hand, so I can crap out Emrakul on T2. I make a critical play error but not playing my Lotus Petal and pass the turn. He goes Dark Ritual -> Hymn to nail mana accel I may have in hand. He hits Island and some other random card. If he had hit Island and Petal, I would have lost horribly (oops). Next turn I drop SI and Petal. He doesn't have Wasteland and scoops. I board out Storm stuff for SnT/Emrakul, thinking that it's easier to assemble against discard. Not sure if this was the right choice, as I know he runs Gatekeeper of Malakir. Game two he hits me with some discard, and swarms me with 2 Nantuko Shades and a Goyf before I can SnT. Game three I set up T3 SnT with SDT and he doesn't have Gatekeeper.

2-1, 3-0 rounds

Round 4 - Zoo

ID into top 4.

Top 4 - CAB Jace (I think).

This is some variation of the slow Jace deck with Treasure Hunt (I think, I never actually saw that card, but he ran Maze of Ith, Cunning Wish, etc.) Game one we both open with SDT and sculpt for a while. Eventually, he plays something and I Doomsday with Force backup into an SI pile, untapping that turn with Cloud of Faeries. Game two I'm an idiot. We both sculpt forever, and then I Meditate into a huge hand and eventually DD through his countermagic (I love Force) into an SI pile. He responds to my SI activation with Cunning Wish -> Crop Rotation -> Karakas. Owned. I'm not entirely sure what I was thinking here, because he had Jace in play and I think more than six permanents. Game three we both open with T1 top (every game). I sculpt for a while, and eventually build up a hand with a bunch of mana, DD, and FOW. I blast through a counter and then sculpt a pile with Dark Rituals so I could storm off while maintaining Force backup the whole time (I feared Cunning Wish -> Stifle or other shenanigans). My Meditate stack gets there.

2-1, 4-0-1 rounds

Top 2 - Zoo

This guy is a friend of mine so we split and get $45 each in store credit I think. It turned out there were 3 Merfolk decks out of like 15 players. I dodged them all (in fact I think my buddy playing Zoo got paired against most of them lol). I also dodged Counter-top with Knight and Karakas, which sounds rough to me but I haven't tested it.

Conclusions:

This deck is awesome. Thanks Emidln for designing it, it's an absolute blast to play and has answers to basically every situation. I get the feeling while playing that I should be able to win every game if I actually knew what I was doing. Also, playing four basic lands in storm combo is AMAZING. I don't think I got Wastelanded once all day. I'll be testing this and DDFT for GP Providence, as I'm tired of being owned by CB (and sometimes Wasteland) while playing TES.

[Lammina]

@Admiral: Nice work, but adding +1 Shelldock Isle and +1 Emrakul, dont change the DDFT in a Shelldrazi. Sorry.

Cyah,

Lammina

[Admiral_Arzar]

@Admiral: Nice work, but adding +1 Shelldock Isle and +1 Emrakul, dont change the DDFT in a Shelldrazi. Sorry.

Cyah,

Lammina

Thank you.

But seriously, have you even read the thread? Go back and read what emidln and others have posted (especially the second page). There have been two versions of this deck floating around. One version plays exclusively SnT and Shelldock Isle as wincons. The other (and the first) is a hybrid combining that deck with elements of DDFT for an alternate storm kill - which makes the deck infinitely better against aggro and any deck with Emrakul hate.

Also, do you even know what DDFT is? That deck definitely does NOT play Force of Will or Show and Tell.

[Admiral_Arzar]

It seems this thread is dead, but I'll post this anyways. Took the list a few posts up, with these changes, to another local tourney:

Mainboard
-1 Preordain
+1 IGG

Sideboard
-2 Thoughtseize
+2 Misdirection

To set some background, I went to the midnight prerelease the night before, and then had to take my car in to get serviced early in the morning, so I was running off of two hours of sleep. I vaguely thought playing Doomsday in this condition was a bad idea, but I wasn't awake enough to build an easier deck, so I said screw it. As a result, my memory of games is very hazy.

Round 1 - SnT/Eureka Combo

Same round 1 opponent as last week. He wins the roll and ends up with T2 SnT into Progenitus. Unluckily for him, I had the one mainboard Emrakul in my hand. GG. I board in Spell Pierces and Emrakuls for who knows what. Game two, he SnTs and we both reveal Emrakul. Lulz. I then counter a Eureka. The second one resolves and he drops Emrakul and two other huge things. I drop in my own Emrakul, leaving him with Ulamog and I think a Terastodon. That turn, I Doomsday for SI, Brainstorm into Cloud of Faeries, the isle, and a lotus petal for the last mana. I crap out an Emrakul and annihilate his fatties.

2-0

Round 2 - Mono Green Chalice Aggro

This guy has been playing this list for a couple weeks now, and dominating our meta. Unfortunately, he wins the roll and opens with Tomb, Elvish Spirit Guide, Trinisphere. Shit. I eventually manage to Doomsday for SI but forget to put an extra land in my pile (Emrakul costs three mana with T-Sphere in play...) and lost awkwardly. Game two I SnT Emrakul through Chalice and T-Sphere and get there. Game 3, he has T-Sphere again. My Doomsday into SI happens a turn too late and I die to a Garruk Beast token wielding a Jitte.

1-2

Round 3 - Bant Aggro

This guy was experimenting with a new Bant build. I don't remember exactly what was in it, but it didn't have CB or Wasteland (I fetched basics though, as I thought he had it). He did have Karakas though, which forced a storm kill. I win both games the turn before I die off of DD, FOW his FOW, Meditate pile.

2-0

Top 4 - Aggro Loam

This matchup should be a bye for me assuming he doesn't stick chalice preboard. I think I FOW his Chalice and DD for some kind of IGG pile game one. At this point, I was so tired that I think I got a warning for slow play trying to put my pile together. I think I boarded in Spell Pierce, Wipe Away, and Pithing Needle for random cantrips. I draw the Needle and name Wasteland, and also drew Cloud of Faeries. I then DD for SI and annihilate his Goyf and Confidant.

2-0

Top 2 - Mono Green Chalice Aggro Rematch

I'm so tired at this point that my memory is pretty hazy. Game one I think I FOW his turn one T-Sphere and then storm him out with a Brainstorm/IGG pile or something. Game two I think I lose to Jitte. Game three I'm pretty sure I got a quick SnT/Emrakul and he had no outs.

2-1

Record: 4-1, 1st place

I got some store credit and pondered how I could do better on two hours of sleep than I did the week before, fully rested ( I had a lackluster 1-2 or 2-2 or something, don't remember). This deck remains a complete blast to play, and seems pretty good against most everything I've played against, with the exception of Merfolk, which crushed me last week.

[death]

Just wanna know what made you decide to board in IGG this time around, Was it because you felt the need for speed?

Because IGG pile lets you win with few resources, often with :1::u: or even :u: only if you have an LED in hand.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Just wanna know what made you decide to board in IGG this time around, Was it because you felt the need for speed?

Because IGG pile lets you win with few resources, often with :1::u: or even :u: only if you have an LED in hand.

You pretty much nailed it. There was a reason it was in emidln's original build, and that's because it gives access to a lot of piles that improve the aggro matchups and also allow you to ramp huge amounts of storm. The classic one would be turn one Dark Ritual -> Doomsday for I think SDT, LED, DR, IGG, TOA with another land/lotus petal, a Brainstorm, and at least one chaff card in your hand. There's several different variations of that one that basically all allow turn two wins. I had the opportunity for that one in game one vs. aggro loam, but waited and sculpted for fear of Chalice screwing me after I passed the turn. I did win a game turn two with that one last week though (through 2 Daze) which was pretty awesome. I ran into a situation last week where I lost to zoo because I had TOA for 24 but he STP'd two guys in response, going to 26. If I had known a DD -> IGG -> DD pile I probably could have won that one. The storm kill is absolutely essential in this deck because it greatly improves all the aggro matchups, especially with IGG.

[lordofthepit]

I haven't been following the deck the last few months, but it seems all the builds now are eschewing Duress/Thoughtseize in favor of Daze/Misdirection/Spell Pierce. Any reason why this is so? It seems pretty janky with the LED for lethal tendrils finish. (Granted, I understand you'd probably be going for the Shelldock Isle plan against blue decks.)

[Admiral_Arzar]

I haven't been following the deck the last few months, but it seems all the builds now are eschewing Duress/Thoughtseize in favor of Daze/Misdirection/Spell Pierce. Any reason why this is so? It seems pretty janky with the LED for lethal tendrils finish. (Granted, I understand you'd probably be going for the Shelldock Isle plan against blue decks.)

Spell Pierce is insane against blue decks, particularly Counterbalance. I've now cut Misdirection because it just doesn't do enough. Yeah, I know LED is bad with countermagic, but this deck really doesn't rely on LED pre-Doomsday unless you're going all-in against aggro. You use countermagic to disrupt your opponent and force through Doomsday, and then go off as you like from there. I've won so many games with Dark Ritual -> Doomsday. Oh you have FoW? I'll FoW that, and proceed to win. I might as well post the list I'm going to be testing this weekend:

4 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Meditate
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle

3 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Force of Will
3 Duress/Thoughtseize
1 Chain of Vapor

2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
2 Island

Sideboard
4 Show and Tell
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Spell Pierce
1 Wipe Away

I found myself wanting more protection than just FOW maindeck, and not using the Cloud of Faeries almost at all. As I've become more familiar with this deck, I play it more like Storm combo than like Emrakul combo, as it's simply better that way except against Counterbalance and Chalice Aggro. The Xantid Swarms are a concession to the fact that the Merfolk matchup was awful for the previous versions. I'm considering running another green source in the board, as I'm not sure the one maindeck is enough. Space is tight, however. I'm considering cutting two more Lotus Petals for Cabal Rituals, not sure if that'll actually happen though. Now I have to debat the pros and cons of Duress vs. Thoughtseize for the main.

[P-E]

i tested it and when i count i saw there were only 59 cards main ^^

[(nameless one)]

Alright, here's the back story: I'm trying to build an Ooze combo deck with Shelldrazi transformational sideboard. I've never really dealt with Doomsday before, can anyone walk me through the basic DD pile without the Meditate? Thanks.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Alright, here's the back story: I'm trying to build an Ooze combo deck with Shelldrazi transformational sideboard. I've never really dealt with Doomsday before, can anyone walk me through the basic DD pile without the Meditate? Thanks.

Here are the basic shelldock piles.

Shelldrazi Pile (normal)

Shelldock Isle
X
X
Emrakul
X

The order doesn't matter too much other than the Shelldock. In the open slots I typically put protection of some kind (CoV, Wipe Away, FoW), Rituals + Tendrils to finish the opponent off, or another Doomsday to buy extra turns. If you're afraid of Jace 2.0 or Predict messing with your top card:

SDT
Shelldock Isle
X
Emrakul
X


Piles involving Cloud of Faeries:

Assuming you have SDT in play, a useless card in hand, and a few mana, you can stack this:

Brainstorm
Shelldock Isle
Cloud of Faeries
Emrakul
X

Draw BS with top, then BS. Put back top and useless card. Play SI and hideaway. Then cast Cloud, untapping SI and a land that produces blue. Win.

If you have Brainstorm in hand, a couple mana, and one or more other cards to put back, stack this:

Shelldock Isle
Cloud of Faeries
Emrakul
X
X

BS, then put back Emrakul and the random card. Play Shelldock and hideaway. Play Cloud, untapping, and win.

If cloud of Faeries is in your hand, stack one of the piles I mentioned at the beginning as long as you have a couple extra mana.

[(nameless one)]

I imagine it involved LEDs? If not then sure. I'm just trying to learn it so I can pull it off of the sideboard. Thanks for the help!

[OurSerratedDust]

So, considering that merfolk is one of our worst matchups these days, whatever happened to the SB Blazing Archon? Did people just give up on it? I haven't seen it in anyone's list for a while.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I imagine it involved LEDs? If not then sure. I'm just trying to learn it so I can pull it off of the sideboard. Thanks for the help!

I was under the impression you wanted Shelldock piles. If you want Storm piles, go here: https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1onAp8XmBLHTUP71xw1w_z0_LAiTo5EWJR4YQmAMgTkY&hl=en&pli=1#

[ivanpei]

Anyone looked at the latest list that was 2nd at Starcitygames? It's a Doomsday-Show and Tell version. Some odd inclusions I noticed were:

Only 2 Dark Rituals- This needs to be a 4 off
Only 2 Ponders/2 Tops- Needs More ponders
3 Stifle- Weird? I can imagine playing 1 for wasteland in the DD pile, but I'd rather just run needle/auto kill with Cloud of faeries.

Has anyone played with the Doomsday-Show and tell Versions? I tested yesterday and it is insane vs blue decks. Without the meditate tendrils plan, the deck felt slightly weaker against aggro though.

[OurSerratedDust]

Anyone looked at the latest list that was 2nd at Starcitygames? It's a Doomsday-Show and Tell version. Some odd inclusions I noticed were:

Only 2 Dark Rituals- This needs to be a 4 off
Only 2 Ponders/2 Tops- Needs More ponders
3 Stifle- Weird? I can imagine playing 1 for wasteland in the DD pile, but I'd rather just run needle/auto kill with Cloud of faeries.

Has anyone played with the Doomsday-Show and tell Versions? I tested yesterday and it is insane vs blue decks. Without the meditate tendrils plan, the deck felt slightly weaker against aggro though.

These were pretty much my thoughts exactly. Also, I'm not really convinced that Solitary Confinement is good at all.

[ivanpei]

I feel that The Tendrils-Doomdsday Version is a better choice in this meta than the Show and Tell Version. Granted the Show and Tell ones absolutely ass rape blue control, but it has major problems vs stuff with wasteland + a fast clock. Giving goblin, big zoo, GSZ Maverick etc a chance seems unwise. I'd prefer to play a standard DD-Tendrils deck G1 and board into DD-Show and Tell. @ Admiral, my list is pretty similar:

MD:
4 Dday
4 LDV
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
4 Top

1 Tendrils
1 Meditate
1 Shelldock
1 Emmy

4 LED
4 Petal
4 Ritual

4 Force
2 Thoughtseize

2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Delta
3 Strand
2 Marsh
4 Sea

SB:
4 Show and Tell
3 Emrakul
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Spell Pierce
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Wipeaway

Boarding Plans are as follows,

Against Non Blue aggro without wastes(to dodge Teeqs, Traps):
-4 LED, -Tendrils, -Meditate, - 2 Seize, + 4 Show and Tell, + 3 Emrakul, + 1 Chain

Against Non Blue with Wastes:
-Shelldock, - Emrakul, - 1 Preordain + 2 Thoughtseize, + 1 Chain

Against Blue Control without waste, without Stifle (Countertop):
- 4 LED, - Tendrils, - Meditate, -4 Lotus Petal, -4 Dark Ritual, + Everything except Chain. Without acceleration, IMO Raw dogging doomsday should be quite okay too. Can somewhat else who has tested this comment?

Against Blue with wastes/stifle/fast clock:
- 4 LED, - Tendrils, - Meditate, - 4 Doomsday, - 1 Shelldock , - 3 Petal, + Everything except Chain.

Am I doing something very wrong? Cheers!

[OurSerratedDust]

Boarding Plans are as follows,

Against Non Blue aggro without wastes(to dodge Teeqs, Traps):
-4 LED, -Tendrils, -Meditate, - 2 Seize, + 4 Show and Tell, + 3 Emrakul, + 1 Chain

Against Non Blue with Wastes:
-Shelldock, - Emrakul, - 4 Force, + 2 Thoughtseize, + 2 Duress, + 1 Wipeaway + 1 Chain

Against Blue Control without waste, without Stifle (Countertop):
- 4 LED, - Tendrils, - Meditate, -4 Lotus Petal, -4 Dark Ritual, + Everything except Chain. Without acceleration, IMO Raw dogging doomsday should be quite okay too. Can somewhat else who has tested this comment?

Against Blue with wastes/stifle/fast clock:
- 4 LED, - Tendrils, - Meditate, - 4 Doomsday, - 1 Shelldock , - 3 Petal, + Everything except Chain.

Am I doing something very wrong? Cheers!

You definitely want the tendrils plan vs. non-blue aggro. For that matchup I would go -4 FoW +2 Duress +1 Wipeaway +1 Chain of Vapor.

Casting SnT can be too slow vs Zoo and the like, and you won't be needing Force in those matchups. If you are having trouble with Teeg or Traps either put a Duress or Chain of Vapor in your DD piles OR put a Cloud of Faeries maindeck so you can make faster SI piles. I posted this somewhere on the source earlier, but this pile is golden against aggro:


Cost 1U
Requires SDT in play or BS in hand + 2 extra cards in hand

BS/SDT
Shelldock Isle
LED
Cloud of Faeries
Emrakul

If you have SDT in play, put BS in the pile. If you have BS in hand, put SDT in the pile.

It lets you "win this turn" against aggro and also beats teeg. Even if you're playing against a deck with wasteland, they lose if they don't have an untapped one in play.

Anyways, that is about it. I highly recommend Cloud of Faeries to you all!

[Admiral_Arzar]

@ Admiral, my list is pretty similar:

Boarding Plans are as follows,

Against Non Blue aggro without wastes(to dodge Teeqs, Traps):
-4 LED, -Tendrils, -Meditate, - 2 Seize, + 4 Show and Tell, + 3 Emrakul, + 1 Chain

Against Non Blue with Wastes:
-Shelldock, - Emrakul, - 4 Force, + 2 Thoughtseize, + 2 Duress, + 1 Wipeaway + 1 Chain

Against Blue Control without waste, without Stifle (Countertop):
- 4 LED, - Tendrils, - Meditate, -4 Lotus Petal, -4 Dark Ritual, + Everything except Chain. Without acceleration, IMO Raw dogging doomsday should be quite okay too. Can somewhat else who has tested this comment?

Against Blue with wastes/stifle/fast clock:
- 4 LED, - Tendrils, - Meditate, - 4 Doomsday, - 1 Shelldock , - 3 Petal, + Everything except Chain.

Am I doing something very wrong? Cheers!

I wouldn't board into SnT against Merfolk, it's usually been too slow for me. Then again, I basically can't beat that matchup with this deck regardless of how I board. I don't like to board out Ritual vs. Countertop, because T1 Doomsday will get you there a lot of the time if they mulled into CB instead of FoW. I also agree with the above post that you should never board out the Tendrils plan against aggro (with the exception of Chalice/Trinisphere stompy decks IMO). Often SnT is too slow, and Teeg doesn't do anything as long as you run a CoV in the main (cut a Preordain from your list for it). FoW deals with MB Trap or Ethersworn Canonist.

[tangram]

Cost 1U
Requires SDT in play or BS in hand + 2 extra cards in hand

BS/SDT
Shelldock Isle
LED
Cloud of Faeries
Emrakul


The LED is that pile strikes me as odd. Wouldn't it be better to include a DD or protection?

[OurSerratedDust]

The LED is that pile strikes me as odd. Wouldn't it be better to include a DD or protection?

I posted this pile because it has very low requirements and allows you to cast Emrakul the turn you cast Doomsday. This makes it really good against aggro decks. In this case, you should win the game before you deck yourself and you wouldn't need protection against aggro.

If you find yourself getting outraced by aggro in a non-tendrils version, I recommend putting a single LED maindeck.

[ivanpei]

Never cut tendrils plan vs non blue aggro, gotcha. Thanks!

[TheSleeper]

Can we leave the Tendrils talk to the other numerous storm threads? The primary focus being on Shelldock really needs a home of it's own (ie here).

[kinda]

I was testing try to develop a budget list...or at least budget as far as my card pool goes. I'd appreciate any suggestions to "optimize" or any thoughts. The sb is random. I know the orchard looks terrible (and it is...) but it's not actually that terrible...and the 12 rainbow lands plus lotus petal enable an anything sideboard, well to an extent.

// Lands
4 [JGC] Gemstone Mine
4 [AN] City of Brass
4 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
1 [LRW] Shelldock Isle
4 [CHK] Forbidden Orchard

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [UL] Cloud of Faeries

// Spells
1 [FNM] Brainstorm
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [M10] Ponder
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
3 [GPX] Chrome Mox
4 [6E] Doomsday
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [FNM] Duress
4 [PT] Personal Tutor
4 [DDC] Dark Ritual
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [US] Energy Field

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 [JU] Solitary Confinement
SB: 3 [US] Energy Field
SB: 3 [GP] Leyline of the Void

[Art Covers Me]

Hi guys!! this is my first post here. I've read the Rules, so I hope to do not wrong :D
For start, let me excuse me for my English: I'm Italian and I'm trying to write as well as I can!
I want to Thanks you all for this posts. (with a particoular thanks to Emidln who,with his posts, has teached me how to play :b::b::b: Funniest-card-Ever aka Doomsday :D ) I follow you since a lot of a time, and now, I taken the boldness to log in, hoping that my linguage will be comprehensible :D
In my complete honesty, I belive that you will be really more wise and experienced than me, so I'll accept all tips about it :D

this is my DD-SnT-Shelldrazi list:

1 Uncle Emmyrakul
1 Cloud of Faeries

4 Doomsday
2 Show and Tell
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Lim-dul's Vault
4 Sensei's divine Top
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal ritual
4 Lotus petal
4 LED
1 ToA
1 Meditate
--lands----
1 shelldock isle
3 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty rainforest
1 Swamp
2 Island
3 Underground Sea


--- Sideboard---
2 Show and tell
2 Emrakul
1 Blazing Archaon
1 Form of the Dragon
1 Misdirection
2 Spell pierce
1 Hurkyl's recall
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Leyline of the void
1 Ravenous Trap


There are a lot of things that are not so convincing in the structure of the deck: Some hands seems like a MUC or, too slow to be really reactive in legacy attitude, but I want to add at your opininions and Experiences. I'll try last Admiral_Arzar decklist and with a lot of test, resolve my doubt. Let's talk about some cards in the list:

-Misdirection: Basically is an additional protection against counters if we don't have a Force, and in this MD is nice for give some additional utility to Show and Tell, because with just one Emmy, isn't enough solid solution. Misdirection also help us against Hymn to tourach or other "target player " effects , and in very rare cases will help us against stifle on Tendrils (stackin SDT in Lightning rod mode ) :D

- Archaon and Form: This two cards can be discussed together in my opinion : Archaon (as all of you have said a lot of times ) is the best solution against melfolk. I tried it against goblin too (i know is not effective, but was to be much protect in storm piles) and, obviously Gempalm has expressed all my no-magic-attitude in a second :tongue:, so I added against it The red moat - Form of the Dragon, and, i found here very nice against Dragon Stompy too : with bounce on Rakdos

I was pondering in Energy Flux too against Stax, what do you think about?

Personally i dont belive in discards effect like Duress or Thoughtseize: i think that will be just slower than a correct fow or pierce after sb. and, with duress or Thoughtseize, we got much less chance against Chalice in first match.

[ivanpei]

I wanted to bump this thread to see if anyone has any modern lists that incorporate new cards such as Gitaxian Probe and Temporal Mastery.

Probe makes drawing Shelldock after a Doomsday a turn faster and checks opponents for counters/wasteland. For example you can now T1 cantrip/Duress, t2 ritual dday probe Shelldock. T3 go crazy with eldrazi.

Temporal mastery is slightly debatable. I find it worth including because you can throw it in your doomsday pile. Sometimes swinging once with emrakul isn't enough. Your opponents may sac their lands, then swing back ftw. Having temporal can save your ass if you put it in your pile. It's better than solitary as you don't have to splash and temporal pitches to force.

Temporal also seems solid with the snt plan. You snt for emrakul. Next turn during your upkeep ldv for temporal and double swing ftw. This can be critical in some games when you start off slow and face a lethal return swing from the opponent.

I also like how you can use temporal to dodge a tapped wasteland, karakas or jace. You eot tutor for temporal with ldv. During your turn you miracle it out. Then dday+ probe for your Shelldock. Take your extra turn and activate.

You can also use it to protect your snted emmy against by eot ldv for temporal. Untap, cast temporal, cast snt drop emmy and swing during your extra turn.

Temporal can also act as an auto win style card like cloud of faeries. You can dday for a pile of temporal, Shelldock, emrakul + xx. You ship the turn, and when you get it back, cast temporal, probe/top into Shelldock, take your extra turn and activate Shelldock.

I think temporals many applications earns it a spot in this deck. If drawn it can be a rampant growth with brainstorm or just pitch to force. What I enjoy is that it squeezes cloud of faeries + solitary confinement into one all around useful card.

Here's a preliminary list:

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Snt
4 Doomsday
3 Emrakul
2 Ldv
1 Temporal
1 Needle
4 Force
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
2 Top
4 Probe
3 Duress

4 Delta
5 Blue fetch
4 Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Shelldock

SB:
1 Tropical
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
Xxx bounce and other good stuff

[kingsey]

I'm interested in any updates as well.

Is this only used as a 2nd plan for doomsday storm?

[Mhenlo]

I am a DDFT player and it is generally accepted that it is just a worse Doomsday list. Adding Show and Tells and Emrakuls only makes the deck more clunky and doesn't really help your bad match ups. Especially now that you can't Karakas their Karakas.

Edit: Temporal Mastery is unplayable in Doomsday.
If I would try the deck I would use Burning Wish with a Show and Tell in the SB because having seperate win cons makes you more vulnerable to discard. Also I would use chants over discard as my Protection because you can chant walk and this version has to pass the turn to win a good amount.

[Mystical_Jackass]

@ivenpei
Wow, those are really good ideas man. Temporal and Probe.

I forgot about this deck, I had a lot of fun playing it when it came out. But like you said, before Gitaxian Probe there was sometimes that awkward period after you DDay if you can't cantrip into playing Shelldock, you're basically timewalking yourself 1-2 turns and praying they don't wasteland or screw up your plan lol.

@kingsey
It can be but not necessarily. I think the great part of the combo, it's really mainly a 2-3 card combo so not a whole lot of investment so going the Storm route, SnT, or pretty much whatever, is easy to incorporate into deck. Even running the combo on its own and playing very Control is probably doable.

[Mhenlo]

Temporal Mastery isn't used because the few corner cases where you need another turn with Emrakul and chant walking, a discard spell or bounce or any combination of them isn't worth a MD slot.

Probe is a Doomsday staple and should be played as a 4 of in every list.

[Barbed Blightning]

Anybody have an updated list? I want a cool combo deck and doomsday looks sick

[Lemnear]

Anybody have an updated list? I want a cool combo deck and doomsday looks sick

There's no updated list because the deck still scoops to Wasteland and Stifle. Shelldock + Emrakul is just plain bad. If you are looking for some resiliant Doomsday list, Check out the Laboratory Maniac builds.

[Mhenlo]

I have never played this version of the deck nor do I recommend playing it. I am a DDFT player and the list I would try if I were to run the deck

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:3
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:40
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Pithing Needle
4 Ponder
1 Rain of Filth
4 Burning Wish
1 Explore
1 Ideas Unbound
3 Doomsday

Lands:17
1 Badlands
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:15
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Doomsday
1 Infernal Contract
1 Show and Tell
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Spiral

[Namida]

You say that it is generally accepted that a Shelldock Isle deck is a worse Doomsday list, but I don't know that anyone has thought about this deck recently enough for us to say that anything is generally accepted about it. This isn't to say that I have high expectations for such a deck, but I don't think we can just jump to calling it bad yet. Your decklist is literally just a worse DDFT list because you aren't attempting to maximize whatever advantages the deck would gain from focusing on casting Emrakul. I won't lie--you've posted the kind of list I'd probably pick up if you twisted my arm and told me I had to play something other than a normal DDFT list. However, I would assume that the posters in this thread aren't looking to play a deck where Storm is Plan A (or they'd actually just be playing DDFT).

Since no one actually *has* a recent list, we should ask: if we set out to make a dedicated Shelldock Isle deck, what are the advantages of such a plan (compared to Storm)? How can we build the deck to take advantage of this?

[Mystical_Jackass]

Since no one actually *has* a recent list, we should ask: if we set out to make a dedicated Shelldock Isle deck, what are the advantages of such a plan (compared to Storm)? How can we build the deck to take advantage of this?

For one, less mana investment. Shelldock is :b::b::b: vs Storm generally :b::b::b::b::b:, gives more freedom for protection and board control, what do you say? Throw in some Volcanic Island/Badlands?

+4 Pyroclasm (if you don't have that "God hand", this will shut them up for a sec)
+X Countermagic
+4 Stifle/Teferi's Response (protection/combo?)
+4 Dreadnaught/Tombstalker (backup?)

[Mhenlo]

You say that it is generally accepted that a Shelldock Isle deck is a worse Doomsday list, but I don't know that anyone has thought about this deck recently enough for us to say that anything is generally accepted about it. This isn't to say that I have high expectations for such a deck, but I don't think we can just jump to calling it bad yet. Your decklist is literally just a worse DDFT list because you aren't attempting to maximize whatever advantages the deck would gain from focusing on casting Emrakul. I won't lie--you've posted the kind of list I'd probably pick up if you twisted my arm and told me I had to play something other than a normal DDFT list. However, I would assume that the posters in this thread aren't looking to play a deck where Storm is Plan A (or they'd actually just be playing DDFT).

Since no one actually *has* a recent list, we should ask: if we set out to make a dedicated Shelldock Isle deck, what are the advantages of such a plan (compared to Storm)? How can we build the deck to take advantage of this?

You are absolutely correct. I thought of the deck as just a bad DDFT deck so that's kinda how I built it. I should've thought of it as a different deck.