Sneak Attack.dec - past ROE

[klaus]

I thought it would be cool to have a collaborative approach to optimizing a list featuring Sneak Attack and Emrakul.
So this thread is not supposed to be the regular: "here's my list - now gimme advice thing", but a collective brainstorm.

I'm sure, most of you will agree that a Sneaked Emrakul will win most games. So in a nut shell we're discussing a two card combo requiring at least 5 mana (more for protection beyond FOW) or 4 mana and an additional turn.
Now that does not sound too amazing in the realm of Legacy, where 5 mana spent on a single black instant will win most games, too.
There's a clear difference between the respective requirements (read: deck shells) though: While any deck trying to cast AN and killing with Tendrils needs to dedicate virtually every slot to tutoring effects, ritual effects and protection, Sneak 2.0 needs comparably less of each and can thus fit in more good stuff.

One approach could be a Dragon Stompyish shell. Cities, Tombs, Moxen and Songs can power out the combo in no time, while Chalice counteracts opposing strategies and Trinisphere serves as protection. Also, there should be enough room for alternate wincons in the form of the DS's best beaters.
The problem I see here is the non-existent tutorability (barring the possible Burning Wish ->Through the Breach).
So I'm skeptical whether this could go anywhere really.

One color that let's you see a lot of cards for little mana and incidentally protects your combo quite well is blue.
The UR version is currently the most promising candidate imo. So let me lay out a quick draft:

-------------------------SNEAK 2.0---
4 Sneak Attack
3 Show and Tell
2 Through the Breach
4 Emrakul
3 additional Eldrazis
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 FOW
4 Spell Pierce
1 Misdirection ? Basically FOW#5 against Counterspells and Ulamog protection
4 Seething Song


4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Island
2 Mountain
---
possible SB:
3 Lightning Bolt
3 BEB
3 REB
3 Smash to Smithereens (Needle, Chalice etc..)
3 Faerie Macabre
---

Edit: Here's another sketch:
---RW SNEAK---
4 Sneak Attack
4 Emrakul
4 XYZ Eldrazis
3 Through the Breach
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Orim's Chant
3 Silence
4 Lightning Helix
3 Burning Wish

4 Seething Song
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Arid Mesa
4 Plateau
3 Plains
3 Mountain

SB:
4 Firespout
4 REB
1 Shattering Spree
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Through the Breach
1 other tutor target - not sure what's best here






So as I said before, this is meant to be a first step - I'm excited to see other approaches!

[Michael Keller]

Personally, I think Sneak Attack is one of the most underrated cards in Magic in general. It is an obviously situational card, but with accelerants and the fact it sticks can be just devastating once it goes online. Again, hard to build a deck around that could hang with the best but with work could be effective enough to be considered legitmately strong.

[makochman]

I agree that UR appears to be the best way to build this. The manabase looks very vulnerable to nonbasic hate though. Also Ancient Tomb may be somewhat problematic, as you have relatively few ways to spend colorless mana. I'm suprised to see no Show and Tell. Why is that? It is faster than Through the Breach, even though it does not give the Eldrazi haste.

The important question is :when does this deck goldfish?

[xsockmonkeyx]

If you're going to add blue then you might as well add Show and Tell. Its probably superior to Through the Breach, but doesnt necessarily replace it. There's also probably a corner case scenario where you Show and Tell a Sneak Attack into play.

Intuition can find both sides of the combo.

Crystal Shard and Aether Spellbomb bounce your dude so you can Sneak him again.

REB>Spell Snare for what you want it to do. Might even be better than Spell Pierce with Seething Song in the deck.

[mX-]

Cool idea. Since with a single strike you can deal massive damage and have the opponent sacrifing many permanents, it's worth trying.

Maybe Fling can help for a single turn massive damage?

[Barook]

If you're going to add blue then you might as well add Show and Tell. Its probably superior to Through the Breach, but doesnt necessarily replace it. There's also probably a corner case scenario where you Show and Tell a Sneak Attack into play.

I agree that S&T should be included. Along with it, I think 4x Burning Wish should complement it for additional S&T copies or utility.

T2 Wish, T3 S&T fits the curve and should greatly increase the consistency of putting something fat into play.

Edit: You could also include one copy of Erratic Explosion to the wish board as an alternate win condition, considering the high CC of the creatures.

[jrsthethird]

Ditto on Erratic Explosion

[xsockmonkeyx]

Edit: You could also include one copy of Erratic Explosion to the wish board as an alternate win condition, considering the high CC of the creatures.

Not a bad idea if we are already playing Sensei's Top.

On the topic of Top: I like it in 2 card combo decks, especially ones that you set up your combo on subsequent turns. The ability to eot fetchland, randomly find both your combo pieces with Top and not wait for 2 draw steps to combo is pretty awesome.

[klaus]

Thanks for the input.
Here's an updated MD that's probably more consistent:

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
1 Through the Breach
4 Emrakul
3 other Eldrazis
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 FOW
4 Spell Pierce
4 Seething Song
2 Sensei's Divining Top


I'm really not sure about SnT being superior to TtBreach. In the early game SnT is better for sure, but as the game progresses, TtBreach becomes better and better or rather SnT becomes worse the additional turn you'll have to wait to attack will surely make a difference in some games...

[xsockmonkeyx]

I'm really not sure about SnT being superior to TtBreach. In the early game SnT is better for sure, but as the game progresses, TtBreach becomes better and better or rather SnT becomes worse the additional turn you'll have to wait to attack will surely make a difference in some games...

Show and Tell will be the best card in the deck, and should be the primary mode of winning for this deck. Sneak Attack will serve as a less consistant Show and Tell/more consistent Through the Breach, and Through the Breach will be like a really expensive Erratic Explosion with benefits. If you Show and Tell the big Eldrazi into play what are they going to do? Short of narrow cards like Wraths, edicts, Curfew, and Aether Spellbomb they either race it or lose. A Show and Tell'ed Eldrazi almost spells certain victory if they cant burn you out next turn. If you Sneak Attack the Eldrazi into play your opponent sacs 6 and takes 15 which may or may not be a big deal. Dredge and Storm may not even care if they just sucked up 15, and got 'geddoned/wrathed if you cant follow it up with subsequent Sneak Attacks. Sneak Attack/Through the Breach-->Eldrazi might be better against Zoo, but against most decks you probably want Show and Tell.

Your "other Eldrazis" might end up just being Progenitus. The biggest reason the 15/15 Eldrazi is worth playing is that he dodges Swords to Plowshares.

[Eldariel]

Your "other Eldrazis" might end up just being Progenitus. The biggest reason the 15/15 Eldrazi is worth playing is that he dodges Swords to Plowshares.

I find the biggest reason to play him is that if he attacks, your opponent loses his entire damn board. Which is why he's so brutal with Through the Breach or SA; attacking immediately means opponent most likely gets reset back to 0 cards in play giving you infinite time to finish the job.

[Conficker]

You can prolly ran both 3x SnT and 1x TtB plus 2x Mystical Tutor to give you the card you need. An unanswered SnT=GG while a mid-game TtB will bail you out.

I'm also thinking of a G/R version with Impromptu Raid as pseudo-Sneak with Worldly and Sylvan Tutors. I might also throw in Spinerock Knoll. Hmmm, Summoner's Pact for Novablast Wurm? Total annihilation.

Decisions.. decisions.

[vnayin]

I was thinking maybe a R/G version might be interesting to try using survival of the fittest. I could be similar to belcher with tinder wall/SSG/ESG to provide acceleration as well as become survival fodder. It'd also allow a bunch of silver bullet creatures that could be searched for with survival and sneaked into play if that's even necessary.

The only issue I'm thinking is that the lack of draw/protection that blue provides might be problematic. Probably would have to run burning wish/Through the breach just to have better odds.

[SpeedOfDark]

Crystal Shard and Aether Spellbomb bounce your dude so you can Sneak him again.

If you end up making the deck focused on breach+sneak attack, then the spellbomb and 1-2 crystal shard wouldn't be bad. They give you the power to repeat the combo, and also serve to delay aggro if you need it. (If there is a colorless bounce instant in RoE, that would be even better! :o). Also, in this case you probably want the "4 XYZ Eldrazi" to be Ulamog (http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/riseoftheeldrazi/rg4oquk0g6_EN.jpg) (annihilator 4, indestructible) for board impact. (loses 4 perms and 10 life OR 5 perms and no life)

If you focus on SnT+sneak attack, then no need for bounce (other than maybe echoing truth) and "4 XYZ Eldrazi" should be another evasive creature like progenitus.

[Wyrath the Great]

With Urza's Saga just being released on MTGO, I've been buying up Sneak Attacks and SnTs for this exact reason. I don't have a decklist yet, but I'm very much looking forward to trying this deck. Could end up being a GY-less Reanimator-style deck, and if we pack blue I think the deck will have fairly few truly bad matchups.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Not to be a hater, but here's the problem as I see it: Compared to Reanimator, which can basically tutor any part of its combo for :b: or :u:, you have to rely on stuff like Intuition, which is more expensive to cast and somewhat more awkward in this context than Entomb or Mystical Tutor are for Reanimator. Or you could try something sketchy like Gamble, but that poses obvious problems with consistency. Mystical Tutor can also tutor up protection/ disruption for the Reanimator player if needed, and can tutor Entomb to tutor a creature. Also, their combo doesn't inherently kill their own creature at EOT. I think it's a useful point of comparison, because you really have to ask yourself what can the Sneak Attack strategy do better than Reanimator?

Also, there's the corner-case scenario that swinging with Emrakul (which is basically the best-case scenario) is not going to win the game outright, and they'll manage to stabilize before you draw more gas.

Personally, I think Polymorph is probably the best way to cheat an Eldrazi into play. The trick is you would have to play it in a deck that used enough man-lands to have a reliable sacrifice target, but no other creatures (so you'd hit your Emrakul or whatever every time you 'Morphed.) This idea hasn't garnered any positive reactions in the UWx Landstill thread (which seemed to me like the most natural deck to stick it in), so it might call for a new archetype. But it seems pretty saucy to me...

[klaus]

The good news is that it doesnt fold to graveyard hate. That being said, Reanimator is most likely the better deck :(

[Conficker]

Polymorph is not abusable with this deck. You need man-lands that will make the mana base unstable, prone to Wastelands and especially to Moon effects. Not to mention the creature must stick before you can transmute for an Eldrazi. A combo deck with plenty of man-lands cannot go fast and consistent. While a 2-color Sneak.dec can run solid fetches and basics which is an advantage.

Emrakul going sideways doesn't win outright but puts you on a really big advantage. What we are trying to figure out is how to consistently follow that up with another beater and how to make this deck more consistent. Fling perhaps to finish it early?

Md'ing at least 4x SnT and 4x Sneak already gives you a relatively high chance of drawing the engine together with 8x cantrips. Through the Breech is also being considered. Impulse may fit in as a tutor so finding any of the 8 engines can be faster than Intuition.

[Oiolosse]

Erratic Explosion I feel is more SB -- esp. if you run burning wish. It is amazing with brainstorm though. Also we can consider Ancestral Knowledge. Looking at the top ten is profound. It can be tricky using it right but it finds creatures for next turn sneak attacks, works very very well brainstorm, works very well with erratic explosion and removing unwanted chaff is super nice -- lands typically.

@ Conflicker - Mask of the Mimic? U -- sac a creature, search library and find a card with same name and put into play.

[Conficker]

Emrakul and Progenitus have protection against Mask of the Mimic

[puppektion]

Emrakul and Progenitus have protection against Mask of the Mimic

They're also both legendary...

[Oiolosse]

Emrakul and Progenitus have protection against Mask of the Mimic

bah, had been a while since I read the card, thought it never targeted the creature. Thanks!

[Poron]

what a broken card this Emrakul. annihilator 6 is not even the best part. sometime its 15 power wins alone with haste

definitly a good piece for Sneak Attack.

I would really consider URg for this deck. Green for Living Wish and K-Grips (3x in board with 1x Emrakul, 1x Progenitus, 1x Eternal Witness to get back something you need, etc. etc.)

by the way I see well this deck as a penta-color. With Duress and Thoughtseize as disruptions, Enlightnted Tutor (+ Orim's Chant SB against counters and storm combo).

you can mana fix the whole thing with City of Brass, Gemstone Mines and so on.


edit: just an appetizer.

3 Inkwell Leviathan (serves as a pitch to Fow and can be tutored if you already have a Sneak Attack)
3 Emrakul
3 Progenitus (pitchable again, you never know)
3 other fat ass (hopefully blue, but it's ok anyway)

4 Living Wish
3 Show and Tell
3 Sneak Attack

4 Daze
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm

3 Enlightned Tutor
3 Chrome Mox

20 lands

other cards: Reb, Fling, Ponder, Gamble

may be...

Reb/Daze
Gamble/Living Wish
Ponder/En Tutor
Fling... for something

something to work on for sure

[eq.firemind]

The first thing I'd try is to include the Sneak Attack madness into existing deck. There's already one that can unleash some nasty things very fast: Wildfire (p://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3184-[Deck-CaNG-Finalist]-Wildfire-Mana-Bombs)
The key is that you can actually hardcast your dudes if you have no Sneak Attack online. Something like this:

8 :2:-lands
14 colored lands

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Talisman of Impulse
4 Coalition Relic
4 Gilded Lotus
3 Wildfire
3 Devastation
4 Living Wish
2 Woodfall Primus
2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
4 Sneak Attack

SIDEBOARD
1 Emrakul, Aeons Torn
1 Magus of the Moon
X Krosan Grip
1 Loaming Shaman
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Here, you can hardcast your big creatures if you have no SA and you have 8 MD ways to beat the crap out if you have SA.

[bleuisforwhimps]

I'm testing this, and thus far the results have been really good, especially on the play(like with most stompy shell decks).It is in my opinion beter than dragon stompy simply because of mulldrifter. Also note the lack of seething song, in testing it was underwhelming mostly because you don't want to attack with your annihilators turn 1, what good is annihilator anyway if your opponent has no permanents in play. I have yet to develop a sideboard.Maybe burning wish could fit in here somewhere but i don't know what to cut .Maybe echoing truth could be handy but again instead of what main, definitely in the sideboard though.

Spells:

4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
3 blood moon
3 magus of the moon
4 sneak attack
4 show and tell
4 mulldrifter
4 kozilek
4 emrakul

Mana:

4 simian spirit guides
4 chrome mox
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 scalding tarn
3 volcanic island
2 island
1 mountain

Sneak attack is really awesome and definitely the way to go.The rest is bull. Tooth and nail?Slow+fetch kikki-jikki instead? Mana ramping? Yeah, a deck full of lousy top decks.

[Maveric78f]

Your list looks very good. The only questionnable slot is definitely Mulldrifter. Won't your prefer Fact or Fiction ? or bounces ? or through the breach ? or Ulamog ?

[bleuisforwhimps]

Actually I thought of thirst for knowledge, it digs deeper than mulldrifter and can get rid of excess chrome moxes etc. but mulldrifter can also be sneaked in , and can eventually be hardcast. Also there are a few dredge players in my meta and an evoked mulldrifter is a pain for them. About Ulamog; a split Ulamog/kozilek is obviously beter but he wasn't spoiled at the time, and 8 Eldrazi is just about right I think.And yeah, some bounce would be nice but I'm not sure what to remove for it, post side however against a lot of decks some moon effects could go out for some bounce although I haven't tested it yet.

[klaus]

nice work, bleuisforwhimps
I do see a couple weak spots though:
Your dream play against most decks is T1 Moon, which is, why you pack 6 - there's nothing wrong with that until you splash a color...
After Mooning the board you have only 2 blue sources left in your library with no manipulation. Chrome Moxen can be imprinted with a blue card obviously but you only have 8

[Conficker]

note the lack of seething song, in testing it was underwhelming mostly because you don't want to attack with your annihilators turn 1, what good is annihilator anyway if your opponent has no permanents in play

True, but an early seething song+sneak with Force backup can wreck an opponent by not giving him a chance to draw more countermagic as the game goes on. If they don't counter Song, Sneak becomes daze-proof.

[man_bites_dog]

Has anyone thought about Jhoira of the Ghitu for the UR build? She would get around the drawback of Sneak Attack not "casting" Emrakul? I'm not sure if it helps, but it's another angle?

EDIT: Also just thought about adding Timecrafting to help get into play faster.

Later...

[Conficker]

Why is this card better than Show and tell?

[man_bites_dog]

Why is this card better than Show and tell?

I don't think it's better than SnT, but it could be added as a one, or two of to draw counterspells or removal. I'm not suggesting removing Show and Tell, but adding Jhoira to the mix.

[metalhead]

um....just curios why no one has mentioned simian spirit guide. its another initial manasource to help you hit 2R for seething song. or an extra red to pitch to bring your creature into play...and allows you to play pyroblast after you've tapped out

[Mystical_Jackass]

G/R Survival comes to mind. Just brainstorming..

- Sylvan
- Birds
- Witness
- Goyf
- Firespout
- Grip
- Manamorphose
- Fireblast

Too slow for combo, so control seems like safest choice. Though being able to be flexible and pull out a win in other areas seems pretty cosure

[K_Rot_T]

True, but an early seething song+sneak with Force backup can wreck an opponent by not giving him a chance to draw more countermagic as the game goes on. If they don't counter Song, Sneak becomes daze-proof.
In this scenario, you have Fow+Blue Card+Song+Sneak Attack+Creature, that would be 5 cards, even though Blue Card and creature can be anything.
THe Stompy Shell was the first thing that came to my mind too. I also thought about White for Academy Rector (Searches Sneak Attack, or under Sneak Attack for some other Enchantment), Enlightened Tutor and Karakas (which can also be included in any other Colur, as it is great with Sneak+Emrakul or VS Iona and Gaddock Tegg). But Rector is to bad, because for 4 we get already SnT and we dont have a Sac Outlet besides Sneak-> So no Rector. E.Tutor would be quite useful, but is normally bad in a Stompy Shell, as it dies on Chalice and makes even more Card Disadvantage.
Another Question: Why no Eye of Ugin? When we have the mana for Sneak Attack we also have the mana for activating Eye+Sneak. And with Emrakul gettin shuffled in, you just activate Ugin again. Ofcourse in the Moon List, it gets slightly worse...

[Conficker]

To go fast, the deck can employ mana acceleration in the form of Songs, Petals, and City of Traitors. These are vanishing mana sources and the deck cannot be designed to constantly generate :7: because it is not a control deck.

[Combo Winter]

I think that a fujita style pure speed approch is the way to go.As i'm pretty sure this is the only top 8 placing of sneak attack in a large tourney albeit in a different format. Here is his list.
4 Dwarven Ruins
4 Sandstone Needle
3 Crystal Vein
3 City of Traitors
4 Mountain

4 Dragon Tyrant
3 Symbiotic Wurm
1 Serra Avatar
4 Rorix Bladewing
2 Crater Hellion

4 Through the Breach
4 Chrome Mox
4 Blazing Shoal
4 Gamble
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Sneak Attack

Sideboard
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Defense Grid
2 Final Fortune
1 Cave-In
3 Serra Avatar
1 Duplicant



Here is my port to legacy. The reason to play this deck would be a auto win vs aggro and slower combo(pretty much everything besides belcher) as it is a combo deck. Also alot of the control decks are hard counter light and u can play around daze and sculpt a hand because the decks kill is unaffected by countertop so its not like you have to win turn 1 vs thresh or the various counter top decks. . Also the hellcaver demon plan is questionable but i chose to play it because turn 1 hellcarver flip emrulku is a auto win and if u hit another guy they will need 2 stp to get out of it. If after testing hellcarver it is to all in I would cut it for trestradon or the tyrant shoal plan.


4 helllcarver demon
4 serra
4 emarulku
4 hellkite

4 rite of flame
4 song
4 ssg
4 gamble
4 ttb
4 sneak
4 mox
4 city
4 crystal vein
8 mountains

side:
4 defense grid
4 reb
1 pyroblast
3 pyroclasm
3 pyrostatic pillar

[sdematt]

I've actually been playing Sneak attack with Eldrazi and Survival of the Fittest, and it seems to be doing fairly well. I'm also running Karakas in case one attack with the Eldrazi doesn't kill them (in a Survival type deck, his ability of reshuffling my graveyard hurts, thus Karakas. Also helps against Iona, etc.)

I'm running something like:

4 Sneak Attack
4 Survival of the Fittest
2 Emrakul, Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, Infinite Gyre (blow up Iona, etc.)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Noble Hierarch (could be birds, but hey, exalted is good)
3 Pridemage
1 Karakas
1 Diamond Valley
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Anger
1 Squee

+ Approptriate manabase. Basically, I've made it so that the deck can survive on it's own without Survival, and just get in with fat beats, or it can be good a good Survival package without Sneak Attack. But, should you get Sneak Attack online, the deck just wins (hopefully).

My two cents, just trying it out and it seems pretty good thusfar.

-Matt

[Greenpoe]

I think your list could benefit from Elvish/Simian Spirit Guides to help with acceleration for Sneak Attack or pitch to survival.

[Combo Winter]

After some goldfishing the blazing shoal dragon tyrant plan provides the most consistent turn 1 kill . As to the other ideas proposed in the thread i think a sotf or a blue plan would make the deck a subpar version of a natural order survival or the dream halls deck where as a pure speed plan is faster than dredge and on par with the speed of belcher as they kill 50% or so of the time through empty the warrens. Before anyone assumes this deck is a worse version of tendrils combo. I would more say its similar to a bad hulk flash with no protection that doesn't scoop to graveyard hate. The deck is unique much of the combo hate in the format e.g.. all graveyard hate canonist counterbalance sphere chalice is dead vs it. And people will side in dead cards like krosan grip where when u can sneak in creatures without ever passing priority.
here is my updated list

4 tyrant
4 emarulku
4 hellkite
2 serra avatar

4 rite of flame
4 song
4 ssg
4 shoal
4 gable
4 ttb
4 sneak
4 mox
4 city of traitors
4 mountain
4 sandstone pillar
2 tomb/ crystal vein

Not sure if i wanna mix serra avatar and tombs but if I end up cutting the cut avatars it will probably be for godsire or symbiotic wurm i would go up to 4 tombs. Also for people wanting to abuse emarulku and survival i would run doomed necromancer and him in rgb survival advantage as he would have haste from anger and it wouldn't require your to play a 4 mana enchantment as well as a bunch of big guys which are bad unless you have sneak attack in play.

[Conficker]

The thing with avatar and tyrant is that both fold to spot removal. Serra Avatar is also blockable. In a meta that is infested with Swords, Paths, Karakas (Fish, Zoo, U/w/(x), and yes even Merfolk!) creatures that can be targeted are inferior choices. Hence, the printing of Emrakul made Sneak Attack viable.

There is no doubt a mono-R version can cast Sneak Attack by turn 2. But designing the deck that way is pointless. Either because it's too early to do damage or simply because it's not 100% you'll have an explosive opening hand each time. You can't outcombo Belcher or Tendrils consistently. You will also have a hard time facing countermagic.

After careful meta analysis, I believe the correct approach is to focus on mid-game so U/R is still the right combination. You can wreck combo with cards like FoW, Daze, Spell Pierce or Dispel which altogether can also help power out Sneak Attack against control. When facing aggro you just have to drop Sneak and brutally win.

[Combo Winter]

Here is the thing although i admit you lose to force so does belcher. Also i have never had a karakas played vs me ever and even if they did it would only hit emralku. Also if u see white mana up i don't know why you wouldnt go for emaralku. I would disagree with your assesment that sneak attack is slower than tendrils decks as it attempts to win turn one or 2. The problem i think with splashing colors in sneak attack is you are messing with the redundancy needed to reliably sneak attack. I think show and tell is better in blue/red shells control combo shells because u can burning whish for it and its cheaper 3 vs 5 mana not to mention emralku doesn't do 20 he only does 15 so I'm sure staying around is more relevent than haste for that strat. not to metion show and tell can be played turn one in a blue deck and pitches to force of will.

[General_Norris]

I used to run something like this.

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of traitors
X Mountains

You can also run Wasteland or Port here. Very powerful and you don't lose anything.

4 Sneak Attack
4 Through the Breach
4 Sething Song
4 Desperate Ritual
X Lotus Petal, IIRC


4 Powder Keg
4 Chalice of the Void

Chalice is a must. It wrecks combo, gives you lots of time and protects you from Needle, StP and Chain of Vapor and using Tomb and City you don't need anything to support it.

Keg gives you something to gain time, get rid of threats and overall make your deck more reliable.

4 Sundering Titan
4 Dragon Mage
X Other Stuff, probably Crater Hellion as a 2-of

Sundering Titan is hardcastable and a must counter for any deck. Killing it is simply not an option because it destroys all your lands just by existing. Yes, it can be blocked but that is not really a problem because you play him for the disruption value. Also Keg should clean things a bit.

Dragon Mage seems horrid in paper but it actually worked for me because, in the end, you can overrun control with threats. You have more must-counters than they have counters, it gives you a lot of card advantage because you replenish your hand and they don't. It's also hardcastable.

Crater Hellion as a 2-of or something similar is good. You don't want doubles of it in your first match. Post Board you take them out or you get other two in. It kills everything but a big Tarmo and puts a very fast clock. Also you can cast it.

X Meta Call

This leaves you with 2 slots, perhaps more if you don't run Petals. You can use those slots for a Meta call of your choice. You can use Red Elemantal Blast, you can use Pyroclasm or whatever you like. However I think than the best option is Blood Moon. It's just that good. Another must counter, wrecks lots of decks and gives you a lot of temp.

People play MUC just to play Back to Basics. Run Blood Moon.


Running U/R is subpar. You have to run non-basics and open yourself to a lot of pain. You dillude yourself for protection you can already have staying in monored. FoW is good but it needs a good plan behind it because it makes you run lots of blue cards you don't need instead of redundancy.

You lose vital speed. This version can pump up a proactive defense in turn 1: Chalice or Keg. First turn Keg slows down Aggro more than any FoW will and Chalice nullifies too many Control cards so as to ignore it. If you wait to turn 2 a single FoW is not going to save you because they run FoW, have better card filtering and open mana.

FoW can counter their own FoW but you will not be able to out.control a control deck and combo at the same time. It also doesn't follow any solid plan because if you want a fast combo that supports FoW Storm is more resistent against control than a combo deck that needs a 4cc permanent could ever dream of. Reanimator is better and will always be if you follow a U/R route.

It's simply a choice between a gameplan that relies on some counters to beat control decks on their on grounds and a strong disruption suite supported by Chalice, Blood Moon and Keg.

Hope that helps.

[sdematt]

I've been running this updated list for a few days, and it's been pretty fun:

4 Sneak Attack
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Path to Exile

1 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch (I like Red mana, that's why 1 birds)
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Squee
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Anger
1 Eternal Witness
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Genesis
1 Emrakul, Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, Infinite Gyre
1 Rofellos
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Kitchen Finks

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept heath
1 Karakas
4 Taiga
4 Savannah
2 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain

With the board looking like...

Gaddock Teeg (bad against Sneak attack (you can't play your own Sneak :( ), better against other stuff)
Vexing Shusher
Indrik Stomphowler
Faerie Macabre
Loaming Shaman
Crater Hellion

[bleuisforwhimps]

@General_Norris : Dragon mage? Are you serious? I'd rather have a 15/15 flyer wich destroys 6 permanents when he attacks. And about u/r; you can also play that in a stompy shell, it is possible. So you play bleu without the force but with trinisphere so you don't have to up the bleu count,you play bleu for show and tell and card draw. I've tested mulldrifter but in the end thirst for knowledge proved to be better. Do you really want to play seething song and desperate ritual?They're very bad top decks, I just play chrome mox and simian spirit guide.Excess chrome mox can be discarded for thirst and simian spirit guide is so much fun when somebody tries to daze you.

My list looks something like this now : Spells:

4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
3 blood moon
3 magus of the moon
4 sneak attack
4 show and tell
4 thirst for knowledge
2 kozilek, butcher of truths
2 Ulamog, the infinite gire
4 emrakul, the aeons torn

Mana:

4 simian spirit guides
4 chrome mox
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 scalding tarn
3 volcanic island
2 island
1 mountain

[General_Norris]

@General_Norris : Dragon mage? Are you serious? I'd rather have a 15/15 flyer wich destroys 6 permanents when he attacks.

Wow, I didn't know of that card. Seems good although I wonder how hard-castable it is. Anyways I would exchange Dragon for that, they serve the same role and this guy does it much better.


Do you really want to play seething song and desperate ritual?They're very bad top decks, I just play chrome mox and simian spirit guide.Excess chrome mox can be discarded for thirst and simian spirit guide is so much fun when somebody tries to daze you.

Simian is better than Desperate ritual now than you mention him. You don't need mana to get R and can be casted to chump block if you are desperate. I don't think there's any reason to use Ritual with him because Splice is very rare and if you have 2 rituals in your hand and 4 mana you have enough mana for anything. On the very least Simian is better than Petal.

Chrome Mox seems good if you use Thirst but I would rather have Seething Song in a monored version. I don't like it because you lose two cards for one mana instead of one card for two mana and I think this deck needs that. It fits in the mana curve better than Mox with Simian around, IMHO.



And about u/r; you can also play that in a stompy shell, it is possible.

Yep. I was mainly arguing against versions than run Force and cantrips and other stuff that better suits Reanimator

I will try to throw some list to see how everything fits.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Emrakul is Ridiculous but all of the other creatures you guys have been testing really aren't. I would run woodfall primus, Bogardan Hellkite, or other cards that actually do something. In testing annihilate 4 does absolutely nothing when you spent all of your mana getting the creature into play. I've lost to both Zoo and Merfolk because they can just sac their lands or vials and proceed to beat me to death. Primus and Hellkite make a significant impact as soon as they hit, and can control life loss long enough for you to hit a new creature. Annihilate 5 would be the playable threshold that I've found but none were printed, so Emrakul is really the only guy who can lock the game for you.

[Tacosnape]

Where's Pyromancy in this build?

[sdematt]

You really only to run two Eldrazi: Emrakul, because he swings for 15 in the air, can't be Swords, etc., and he makes them sac 6. Ulamog is the next most playable because he targets to blow up a permanent. That could be Karakas, Iona, etc. These are the only ones I'm using with Sneak.

-Matt

[death]

Ulamog is the next most playable because he targets to blow up a permanent. That could be Karakas, Iona, etc.

He can't do that stuff if you sneak him in.

[sdematt]

Ah, thought it was a CitP effect. I hear reading cards is tech.

-Matt

[AncientSion]

Where's Pyromancy in this build?

why would you run it ?

[Jon Stewart]

I have a question? What is the point of playing a TWO card combo that costs 5 mana, and in a less potent color, when you could instead play a ONE card combo that only costs 3-4 mana to have the exact same effect, and in a color that is the most powerful color in the game.

I am of course talking about the one card combo of Polymorph or Proteus Staff along with beat sticks like Mishra's Factory and Wind Zendikon that landstill builds already play.

[Jak]

I have a question? What is the point of playing a TWO card combo that costs 5 mana, and in a less potent color, when you could instead play a ONE card combo that only costs 3-4 mana to have the exact same effect, and in a color that is the most powerful color in the game.

I am of course talking about the one card combo of Polymorph or Proteus Staff along with beat sticks like Mishra's Factory and Wind Zendikon that landstill builds already play.

What? You do know that Factory is as much as a combo piece to Polymorph as a creature in hand is to Sneak Attack, right? You also still need to activate Factory so the cost is the same as well.

[RexFTW]

Khalani garden gives you an 0/1 to polymorph that does not cost mana to activate.

[Roman Candle]

It's also a wastelandable forest that comes into play tapped and can't be fetched.

And its still a 2-card combo.

[kicks_422]

And its still a 2-card combo.

So, what do you want? A 1-card combo?

[Jak]

So, what do you want? A 1-card combo?

Yes I would and I want to be the only person to play it. Anyway, he was sply saying that the combos (Polymorph and Sneak Attack) still require the same amount of cards.

[bleuisforwhimps]

Sneak attack>polymorph because of haste and you don't need creatures to sac.
@ Phoenix Ignition : you're right, woodfall primus is beter than the annihilator 4's, since people over here start to play ensnaring bridge :s and intuition is also a must instead of other card draw.

[Kaslan]

what do you guys think of this list :

4 x Intuition
4 x thirst for knowledge
4 x Magma Jet or fire-ice

4 x show and tell
3 x sneak attack

4 x trinisphere
4 x chalice of the void
4 x magus of the moon

3 x emrakul, the aeons torn

4 x simian spirit guides
4 x chrome mox
4 x ancient tomb
4 x city of traitors
4 x scalding tarn
3 x volcanic island
2 x island
1 x mountain

I think that Intuition is so good with the new Eldrazi !

P.s it's my first post so be nice with me and my list :)

[bleuisforwhimps]

Replace the fire/ice with Woodfall primus or another big dude because you're light on threats; 4 intuition and 3 emrakul is 7cards out of 60, thats not enough, your opponent will have the time to stabilize after your disruption, I found that 8 critters +4intuition is fine.

[PaRa]

Hi guys,

i have been trying to built a deck around the card Sneak Attack in Legacy quite a while now. After some testing we came up with following list:

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Progenitus
3 Sphinx Summoner
2 Sharuum the Hegemon
1 Sundering Titan
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell

3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Force of Will

2 Chrome Mox

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Seat of Synod
1 Great Furnace

Sideboard:

3 Firespout
3 Propaganda
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Spell Pierce
4 Tormod's Crypt

Card choices:

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn / Progenitus: Sneak Attack and Show and Tell targets which end the game fast

Sphinx Summoner / Sharuum the Hegemon / Sphinx of the Steel Wind / Sundering Titan: The little toolbox of the deck. With Intuition you can make piles which always will hurt your opponent(in theory)

Show and Tell / Sneak Attack: i think there is not much i have to explain about them, they are the heart of the deck and will cheat Emrakul or Progenitus into the game in no time.

Thirst of Knowledge / Brainstorm / Intuition: cantrips and combo tutors which can be played in 99% of the games in round 2 due to Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors.

Force of Will: The only disruption i have mainboard, seems a little bit to less sometimes...

Chrome Mox: They speed the deck up a little or if not needed are good fodder to a Thirst.

Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors: They enable 2nd turn Show and Tells or 3rd Turn Sneak Attack more often than you think. They are the real MVP's of the deck.

Seat of Synod / Great Furnace: extra fodder to Thirst of Knowledge as the artefact count otherwise would be too low.(which it still is)


I played three tournaments with the deck already and ended up like this:

1st tourney 4:1 / 9:3

Game 1 Dark Depts: 1:2

No easy match up due to the discard and sacrifice effects the deck has

Game 2 Dredge: 2:0

A 2nd turn Emrakul in the first game and yard hate + Propaganda seal the deal in game 2

Game 3 D&T: 2:1

I had a 2nd turn Show and Tell in all three games but karakas takes home one game for him

Game 4 Goblins: 2:0

He has no gas after countering 1st turn Lackey and even a late Sneak Attack finishes the games in my favour

Game 5 Loam: 2:0

A second turn Emrakul in Game 1 and a third turn Emrakul in Game 2 makes these game last no longer than 5 minutes each

I was very pleased with the result but as i didn't face a single blue deck i knew that it was far to early to say that this deck is competitive...

So i went straight on to the 2nd tourney with a little worse result:

2nd tourney 3:2 / 6:6

Game 1 Reanimator: 2:1

In game 1 i was out of contention, game 2 and 3 he did not manage to reanimate a single critter....

Game 2 Dredge: 2:1

In game 1 fast Progenitus / game 2 he eats me alive in round 2 / game 3 i have hate + fast fattie

Game 3 Merfolk: 0:2

He has enough counters and a fast enough clock to take me down but i was only one red source short of winning..

Game 4 Bant: 2:0

I can land a fast Progenitus / Emrakul in both games

Game 5 Mighty Quinn: 0:2

I was able to land an Emrakul in both games but a Humlity AND Karakas made it impossible for me to win..

This tournament was a big lesson for me as i saw the big lack of enchantment hate in my main and sideboard. Unfortunately i quite often have to take mulligans (in both tourneys) as my hands quite often contained at least 3 Emrakul/Progenitus without a way to cheat them into play...Still I was surprised that the deck was competitive even vs 3 blue decks so it couldn`t be that bad :)

I make a few small twists with the list, i cutted the Sundering Titan and the one Sphinx Summoner to add 2 Echoing Truth main and exiled the firespouts from the sideboard to add 2 more Echoing Truth and 1 more Spell Pierce

After that i headed to the next "big" tournament with 42 people showing up so this time i had 6 rounds to test the deck thoroughly.

3rd tourney 3 : 2 : 1 / 10:6

Game 1 New Horizons: 2:0

(two really epic battles in which in both games Echoing Truth was the MVP, bouncing two Tarmogoyf to clear the way
for victory)

Game 2 CB Bant: 2:1

In game 1: 2nd turn Progenitus, game 2: he locks me eventually and with CB on 3 and forces my Sneak attack
game3: 2nd turn Progenitus

Game 3 Belcher: 2:0

I had a force in the starting hand in both games and stopped him from going off. I nearly lost the games due to epic
misplays...

Game 4 Mono B Control: 1:2

The first game i can win quite lucky but the 2nd and 3rd his dicard and several mulligans take me down..

Game 5 Landstill: 1:1

The first game take around 45 minutes and at the end he wins at three life with his factories while me having a useless Sneak Attack on the board as he has a Humility and a Karakas online. The 2nd game starts with around 2 minutes left before turns and i keep a hand which enables me a 2nd turn progenitus and...he has no force and scoops...)

Game 6 Thopters 0:2

I have to mulligan to 6 and 5 cards and in both games 3 attempt's to land an sneak attack or a fattie with Show and Tell get countered so he takes it home and makes top 8 instead of me.

So i end up at the 13th instead of 4th...

I was quite disappointed with the toobox as i always boarded them out and the consistency of the deck. i had to mulligan in nearly all games at least once due to too many fatties in the starting hand...Still while playing vs 4 blue decks and 1 discard deck which seems to be a really bad matchup the deck performed "ok"

I decided to make a few changes to the list in which the following list turned out:

anonyme Weltstars - Sneaky pile of doom

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Progenitus

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell

3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
3 Intuition
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Echoing Truth
1 Mystical Tutor

2 Chrome Mox
2 Lotus Petal

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Seat of Synod
1 Great Furnace

Sideboard:

2 Echoing Truth
3 Propaganda
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Spell Pierce
4 Tormod's Crypt

I'm hoping to get a little more consistency, speed and counter back up through the changes and it looks like it works! Only the artefact count for the thirst is too low but it often does not hurt to discard two cards as yu often only need one fattie to win.

As this is a mix of poor tournament reports and some kind of a deck description / primer i hope this actually belongs in this thread.

I`m happy about every new idea which makes the deck even more competitive so i'm looking forward to your replies!

[Combo Winter]

Here is my current version of sneak attack which is a mono red pure combo variant. The main addition i made from the old lists i was testing is the serra avatar or blazing shoal plan have been cut for soverins of lost alara which allows you to leave an emralku in play once you sneak it in at the cost of 2 dead maindeck slots. Its pretty simple what you wanna do just go for a turn 1 sneak or ttb. I really don't see how show and tell is better than through the breach as playing blue limits the threat density of the deck not to mention slowing it down at least 2-3 turns. The main problem with this version currently is the 2 dead patterns that could be creatures that could be easly hardcast because casting dragons is to sneak attack as the etw plan is to belcher.

4 gamble
2 pattern of rebirth
4 sneak attack
4 through the breach
4 soverins of lost alara
4 emralku
2 hellkite
4 seething song
4 rite of flame
4 ssg
4 mox
4 petal

8 mountain
4 aincent tomb
4 city of traitors

side
3 reb
4 defense grid
4 firespout
4 crypt

[HumphreyBogardan]

I was looking through some of the crap rares I got this weekend at the pre-release and came across hoarding Dragon.

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID21272/images/HoardingDragon.jpg

Might be pretty cool with an artifact package. Doesn't seem that sweet off show and tell and I really can't think of any artifacts that would be AMAZING in this deck but I'm sure there's some, plus it let's you run a tool box SB.

[kicks_422]

Sundering Titan? Darksteel COlossus? It refills your hand for on emore big dude to Sneak Attack in. But why would you run this over more of those aforementioned big dudes?

[rufus]

How about:
Primeval Titan to pull 4 lands like Volrath's Stronghold or hideaway lands or Valakut + Mountains, Safe Haven, Maze of Ith...Teetering Peaks, Wasteland...

[HokusSchmokus]

Really, did no one consider Nicol Bolas (http://magiccards.info/fvd/en/10.html)? i mean, its THE sneak attack creature from back in the days

[Hopo]

Really, did no one consider Nicol Bolas (http://magiccards.info/fvd/en/10.html)? i mean, its THE sneak attack creature from back in the days

Nicol Bolas really isn't that impressive nowadays, when you have the option to go for 10/10 protection from everything or 15/15 annihilator 6-almost-shroud dudes. Shroud is really important, since cheap targeted removal is everywhere. Personally I think all the targets should have shroud, impressive comes-into-play-abilities or otherwise protect themselves, and this seems to be so also with Hypergenesis etc.

[PaRa]

You really only need 4 Progenitus and 4 Emrakul.

I played following list at the last 131 men tournament finishing sadly at 31st place but it was ok...

4 Progenitus
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Personal Tutor
3 Intuition

3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Echoing Truth

4 Lotus Petal
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain

Sideboard:

4 Spell Pierce
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Propaganda
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Echoing Truth

Ii didn't have to mulligan too often resulting in a 5:3 (11:8) The list improved so much just by adding the tops...laying down a first turn Ancient Tomb to play a top with Daze backup or to be able too look already first turn is insane...

round 1: Dredge 2:1

round 2: Red Death 2:1

round 3: Lands 1:2

round 4: Faeries 0:2

round 5: UW Tempo 2:0

round 6: Dreadstill 1:2

round 7: Merfolk 1:0 (never mind, he scooped after 1:0 as he wanted to play sealed...)

round 8: Deadguy Ale 2:0

[HokusSchmokus]

Nicol Bolas really isn't that impressive nowadays, when you have the option to go for 10/10 protection from everything or 15/15 annihilator 6-almost-shroud dudes. Shroud is really important, since cheap targeted removal is everywhere. Personally I think all the targets should have shroud, impressive comes-into-play-abilities or otherwise protect themselves, and this seems to be so also with Hypergenesis etc.

this all may be true, but i think at least a sb slot for good old nicol would make sense.its the comboshredder no.1.
i still think hes good enough.
also, Hellcarver Demon allows some sick moves with the eldrazi folks but i think the demon may be too anti-consistent.

[tpnp]

I haven't played Sneak for a few years, however I don't think this card has been mentioned: Magus of the Jar. I ran it with much success, but my deck ran more like a combo deck (Kokusho, the Evening Star and Bogardan Hellkite), so I didn't have to rely on the attack step so much.

Anyway - with the current builds, does Magus warrant at least some consideration? Or is that diving into the "danger of cool things" realm?

[death]

2:r:>Seething Song>Sneak Attack>Magus of the Jar>FTL!
2:u:>Show and Tell>Magus of the Jar>FTL!

IMO.

[sillysam71]

It's kinda weird how this thread died right after this list made top 8 at gp Columbus...

Maindeck:

Artifacts
3 Lotus Petal

Creatures
4 Woodfall Primus

Enchantments
4 Sneak Attack

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
1 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
3 Seething Song
2 Spell Pierce
1 Wipe Away

Legendary Creatures
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Sorceries
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell

Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Mountain

Lands
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Blood Moon
4 Pyroblast
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Spell Pierce
2 Firespout

This list seems fairly solid. It might not be as good now since it's on the radar, but it's still good.

Discuss.

[kinda]

Sneak attack is an awful card and the deck runs no tutors or hand disruption. Woodfall primus+show and tell leaves something to be desired and so does even sneak attack+primus if your opponent is playing swords/path or goblins or zoo or merfolk, ok u get it. The lack of tutors means you can't even reliably find sneak attack in the few situations where it's better than show and tell. Seething song is really useful when you're trying to play show and tell...also, daze is awful in sneak attack decks and the deck can't run form of the dragon.

There's no reason to run this over a dedicated show and tell deck like:

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [A] Island
3 [A] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [b] Tropical Island
1 [b] Bayou
1 [LG] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Progenitus
4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
3 [M10] Ponder
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [PT] Personal Tutor
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [AL] Lim-Dul's Vault
2 [SC] Form of the Dragon
3 [US] Lotus petal

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 4 [TO] Duress or xantid swarm (heavy merfolk meta) or cabal therapy (aluren/snt heavy meta)
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [US] Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 1 [LG] Eureka

[bleuisforwhimps]

SnT primus isn't great, sneaking him in is, haste mathers, as is destroying 2 permanents instead of 1. Sneak attack is awesome really
, sneaking emrakul in can get you out of a desperate situation whereas SnT-ing him will not save your ass.

[PaRa]

I came 3rd with followig list on the last tournament going 4:1 and loosing only to....Zoo....

4 Progenitus
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Personal Tutor
3 Intuition

3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Echoing Truth

4 Lotus Petal
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain

Sideboard:

3 Spell Pierce
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Propaganda
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Echoing Truth
3 Blood Moon

round 1: Counter Sliver 2:0

round 2: Zoo 1:2

round 3: Stax 2:0

round 4: Reanimator 2:1

round 5: Standard Fauna Shaman deck... 2:0

total: 4:1 / 9:3

My list plays tutors and does not have to mulligan that often any more. Well i had to do in the games vs Zoo but i only lost because i punted it in the last game(went for Propaganda first to stop the pain where i should have gone for Intuition straight away to ensure a SnT on Emrakul next turn, he drew Qasali from the top and ripped mit into pieces..)

I also had several situations in which a sneaked Emrakul safed my ass due to haste so i prefer playing a deck with 8 outs to get one of your dudes into play rather than a deck that focusses on resolving a SnT only. I also had 2 games vs Mighty Quinn and Landstill in which they just put the humilty into play and i was doomed as i didn't happen to have the bounce for it. For sure this might not have happened if you duressed it away in the first place...

[JustPAT4]

I've been playing Sneak Attack variants religiously for 3+ years now and since the inception of ROE adding blue for Show and Tell, Emrakul, and countermagic has seemed like the way to go.

Most recently I took a Sneak Attack deck down to Vestal to compete in their 40 Duals competition and took 2nd place in an 80 man event.

My list:

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Intuition

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Progenitus
3 Woodfall Primus

3 Lotus Petal
2 Seething Song

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Mountain

SB:

3 Pyroblast
3 Blood Moon
3 Firespout
3 Echoing Truth
3 Tormod's Crypt

After 10 rounds I was 7-2-1 and I played against most of the major popular archetypes.

Round 1: Merfolk 2:1
(I dropped game 1 after mulling to 5 on the play and keeping a hand with 2 petals and a Brainstorm...I didn't get much help. Games 2 and 3 Firespout bought me enough time to cast SnT with counterbackup and crush with Emrakul.)

Round 2: UWg ThopterSword 1:1
(This is a really tough matchup for my list what with his maindeck E-Tutors, Humility, Ensaring Bridge, and O-Ring. This deck one reason that Woodfall Primus takes up 3 maindeck slots. The first game he set up counterbalance-top in his first 2 turns and I lost hard. Game 2 was an epic standstill with much profanity after I resolved a turn 2 Blood Moon and he e-tutored in response to grab and an Ensnaring Bridge, which he resolved next turn. He quickly follows up with Pithing Needle naming Sneak Attack leaving me precious few outs. The final game-state was hilarous as I managed to SnT all 3 Woodfall Primi, popping a Moat, an O-ring, and his Bridge.)

Round 3: The Gate 0:2
(Hands down one of the toughest matchups in the format for my list. Maindeck Innocent Blood and Gatekeeper of Malakir make SnT marginal while his 12 card discard package can be so brutal. Sneak Attack is key in this matchup, but his Hymn's were heat seeking and I never saw a brainstorm the entire match. Holding a brainstorm in this matchup can be crucial, it allows you to hide your key cards on top of your library when staring down a Hymn, Duress, Cabal Therepy, etc.)

Round 4: GeddonStax 2:0
(I'm a huge favorite here. His only really dangerous spells are Armageddon and O-Ring. I countered his Geddon's each game and he scooped by turn 3 both games.)

Round 5: UWg Landstill 2:1
(On the play, I drew the nuts in the first game. Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Scalding Tarn, Brainstorm, Force of Will, Show and Tell, Progenitus. Turn 1 SnT with Force back-up seems pretty sick. My opponent thought so anyway, he scooped before his first turn. Game 2 he was counter happy, got Jace online, and beat me to death with a Vendillion Clique. Game 3 a resolved turn 2 Blood Moon revealed to me that he had no FoW and I resolved a SnT on my next turn.)

Round 6: ANT 2:1
(Game 1 I had Progen on the table by my second turn. He blew his load by attempting to B-Wish, cracking both his LED's in response...I simply Forced. Game 2, Duress cleared a path for him and I felt the Agony on turn 2. Game 3 no Duress, no problem.

Round 7: New Horizons 2:0
(Game 1 I took my time and went the Sneak Attack route even though I was holding SnT and Emrakul. The threat of him dropping a KoTR of SnT and then searching up Karakas for the win was scary. I managed to pound out a Sneak Attack with Force backup and an activation by turn 4. Game 2 I just decided to go for SnT turn 2 holding Progen (my only other blue card), Emrakul, and a Force. I really wanted to choose Progen because he’s un-Karakas-able, but after he Forced I had to Force back pitching Progen. So I brought Emrakul to Show and Tell and he of course brought Knight of the Reliquary. I dropped my head in shame, but he extended his hand. He wasn’t running Karakas.)

After the 7 round Swiss I was 5-1-1. Good enough to sneak into the top 8.

Round 8: Zoo 2:1
(Game 1 a plopped Emrakul on the table turn 2 and easily out-raced him. Game 2 he stunned me by dealing me lethal by his fourth turn through counter magic with the aid of Reckless Charge (cast and flashed back). He was on 9 and my Progenitus on board looked pretty silly. Game 3 a turn 2 SnT into Emrakul proved to be too much for him to handle. The Annihilator trigger might actually be necessary in this match-up.)

Round 9: Mono-Green Chalice Aggro 2:1
(Game 1 he was on the play and opened with Ancient Tomb, Chalice on 1. I was holding X2 useless Brainstorm. On his next turn he played City of Traitors and resolved a Lodestone Golem. I got stuck on 3 mana and never cast a spell the entire game. Games 2 and 3 I found more mana and SnT into Emrakul got there. He had no outs to the enormous monster.)

Round 10: Merfolk 0:2
(I didn’t see a single piece of counter magic the whole match even after boarding in 3 pyroblasts. Having counter backup is key in this match-up and he had the answers to all my relevant spells. In the end, the speedy fish were too quick for the mediocre starting hands I was dealt.)
So I finished with a record of 7-2-1 in matches with a somewhat surprising 15:10 in games.

My Impressions: This deck seems like a solid meta-game pick right now. Although the Merfolk match-up isn’t great, it’s far from un-winnable. With a single piece of counter magic and maybe a single Firespout after boarding and it’s interesting. The other thing I like about it is that no one is coming specifically prepared for it and that its soooo easy to play. If you want to play Sneak Attack, this deck is highly competitive and is far more interactive that the majority of Sneak Attack lists.

I’ve tested this deck pretty extensively, so if anyone has questions about match-ups, card selections, or anything at all I’d be glad to go into more detail.

Sorry for the length of this post, but it’s my first one so I figured I’d make it count!

[menace13]

@JustPAT4- Nice list, I am at 2 Primus/2 Progen with 2 Tops and 4th Ponder over 3rd Intuition. I hate Primus because he is only good under Sneak Attack and then usually only as a non Creature removal spell, more so if they have StP. Progen sucks under Sneak Attack as it feels like Shrapnel Blast them twice and then lose the game.

If I could I'd run 8 Emrakuls, really wish the other Eldrazi had some sort of Shroud, but I feel Annihilator 4 is better than Primus or Prog-Unless Prog gets Show and Tell-.

The combo-TES is way too disruptive and just faster- MU is pretty bad to me, maybe I am not playing it right, seems as if I'm just sitting there getting Duressed for the first few turns then Chant into GG. Dredge is also weird, if i can Sneak Attack early I can win, otherwise I lose turn 3-4 to Ichy and CO so I increased the sb hate to 4 crypt 1 relic.

How have those MUS been for you?- i read the mini report and I agree, no Duress makes it much easier to handle-.
Mulls with this deck are a must I feel I can't take a hand w/o 1 of the cheat spells/Fatties and some search.

Like the 3 bounce spells I keep 2 Truth 1 Wipe, just too many things to bounce not to play more than 2 and even more so when playing against Humility/Bridge.

[Meekrab]

I came 3rd with followig list on the last tournament going 4:1 and loosing only to....Zoo....
Do you think playing Firespout in the sideboard instead of Propaganda (which imo is a terrible card) would improve your Zoo matchup?

[JustPAT4]

Hey Menace,

You're right that TES is just faster than this. However, I haven't found that it's way too disruptive. It's really just Duress, Orim's Chant (and occasionally Thoughtsieze) that get in the way. I played one list a few months back that ran X4 Duress and X3 Thoughtsieze and it was really annoying and I got rocked. Most lists though only run 3-4 Duress and 3 Orim's chant. Working from that, some bad players will cast Duress without going off on turns 1 or 2. I'd recommend holding a Brainstorm back to hide your FOW (spell pierce can backfire in this MU) if you're lucky enough to start with them, but I doubt you're playing it wrong.Obviously save the Force for B-Wish/Infernal Tutor if you can. I wasn't running anything relevant in the board for TES so I just stuck to my first 60. The fact of the matter is, if TES gets a strong starting hand it's a really rough ride and we don't have much recourse. You might consider Trinisphere or Chalice if there's a lot of Storm in your meta, but of course you risk horrifyingly bad synergy with Brainstorm, Ponder, and Lotus Petal.

Dredge though is a different story. I've played it 3 times in the last few months and won 2 of the matches. The match I lost I misplayed badly in-game and just before the tourney dropped down to 2 Crypt's thinking my MU superior. I've found that a turn 1 or 2 SnT into either Progen or Emrakul is good enough, especially if you can save a Force for Dread Return. Sneak Attack is definitely better though because the clock is ticking. The biggest thing is to bring in the Crypt's/Relics AND the Echoing Truth's for the Bridge tokens. Along with the Intuitions this gives you a healthy number of outs when just 1 depending on the game-state can be devastating to Ichy.

As far as the card selections are concerned, The reason I run x3 Primus and x3 Progen is because Intuition is such an important part of the deck in my opinion (it's the same reason all my SB are 3 ofs). If you're playing in a long tournament there will be situations where you need a desperate Woodfall Primus even if it's only off SnT...and you might only hit an intuition. For a while I was at 2. After the second time this happened to me I had to give in even though I agree with you about the relatively poor synergy off of SnT. Progen is the same way sometimes. Landstill, UW Tempo, Thopter Sword, Stax, Death and Taxes, even some New Horizons builds all maindeck O-Ring which is just so filthy when they bring it to Show and Tell and you only brought Emrakul. Even hardcasting an O-Ring is a serious threat when you only have Emrakul on board. Also, many people are becoming hip to Emrakul shenanigans so expect to see more and more Karakas in the decks I listed above, most of which already have it at least in the board. Progen has that super-di-dooper shroud which is occasionally preferable to the Eldrazi monster's semi-shroud. At X3 it can be Intuitioned up when you deem it appropriate and what I love about it most is that it's blue and at the very least becomes Force fodder. You're right that it isn't the greatest with Sneak Attack, but it is an auto-10. With another critter (which, admittedly, is sometimes asking too much) it's usually GG. I guess I'd have to disagree with you about Kozilek/Ulamog although I did test Ulamog with moderate success. The fact of the matter is, although they are more effective with SnT normally speaking, if you cut the Primi, you have a whopping 0 outs game 1 to a resolved Humility or Ensnaring Bridge and that's just unacceptable in my opinion. However, the other Eldrazi might be correct in your meta.

My last note is that Intuition is almost always relevant. It snags the Force backup, the ideal creature, the key sideboard or the action spell right before you smash in. I understand why you cut down, you never want to open with 2, but I'd consider bumping it back up to 3.

P.S. 8 Emrakul's would be the sickness--I might cheatyface those in when I'm playing casual just to remind everyone who's boss :laugh:

[JustPAT4]

Do you think playing Firespout in the sideboard instead of Propaganda (which imo is a terrible card) would improve your Zoo matchup?

Firespout improves every aggro matchup except maybe MAYBE dredge and the Gate (damn fliers), but you've got more important things to board in against Ichy and friends anyhow. It wipes the table of Goblins, Fish (excluding a flying Coralhelm), and Zoo critters, what more can you ask?

[Justin]

What do you think about Liege of the Tangle for Sneak and Tell?

Liege of the Tangle 6GG
Creature - Elemental
Trample

Whenever Liege of the Tangle deals combat damage to a player, you may choose any number of target lands you control and put an awakening counter on each of them. Each of those lands is an 8/8 green Elemental creature for as long as it has an awakening counter on it. They're still lands.
8/8

[Meekrab]

No shroud, the lands don't get trample, and Progenitus/Emrakul are already two turn clocks.

[JustPAT4]

Yeah Meekrab's right. There may be a place for Liege of the Tangle in certain casual Sneak Attack builds, but not in Sneak and Tell. He's just too vulnerable for a card with a 2 turn clock (3 if SnT'd).

[Pulp_Fiction]

What about combining Sneak Attack and Dragonstorm? Hellkites fucking rock w Sneak Attack anyway, so instead of play extra Eldrazi just run Bogardan Hellkite. I have no idea what a list would look like but if u add in Rite of Flame is doesn't hurt the deck at all. And 4x Top would certainly be the way 2 go.

[JustPAT4]

There might be a mono red list with hyper-acceleration that could go that route... I'm thinking Chrome moxes, lotus petals, rites of flame, seething songs.
All things considered though, if you're going mono-red you probably have better options in Sneak Attack than Bogardan Hellkite. If you're going for hyper-acceleration I prefer using Through the Breach and creatures like Emrakul, Symbiotic Wurm, Protean Hulk (you should be able to find the space for the 4 card Revaillark insta-win), Sovereigns of Lost Alara (maybe 2 slots for a Pattern of Rebirth (into Emrakul) and an Eldrazi Conscription), Nicol Bolas, even Serra Avatar seems pretty appealing if you're going off turns 1-3.
I'd love to see a list that infuses Dragonstorm Pulp. If you can brew one up I'd love to discuss it's advantages and disatvantages over a dedicated Sneak Attack Build.

[JustPAT4]

For everyone's information!!!:eek:

I started a new thread in the Established Decks forum for Sneak Attack with Show and Tell. As I trolled the hundred or so decks on that forum I was disgusted that this deck was hands down better than 90% of them and yet was still only being viewed under New and Developmental Decks forum. Basically I just copied my first few posts from here and included Korey Age's list that made top 8 at 2010 GP Columbus.

Weeeee. Please check it out and start posting some new and interesting stuff! :laugh:

[Pulp_Fiction]

Probably something along the lines of:

4x Dragonstorm
4x Rite of Slame
4x Sneak Attack
4x Seething Song
4x Top
4x Bogardan Hellkite
4x Emrakul
3x Petal
4x Empty the Warrens/Burning Wish
4x Desperate Ritual/Grim Monolith/Coalition Relic/Random acceleration

21 Lands

Something along those lines so it can adapt to any form of hate that the opponent can play. Hell, this could potentially just hardcast Emrakul by turn 4-6, depending on the amount of rituals. Not sure if EtW is needed but its pretty good. It could also be additional acceleration OR it could be Burning Wish. There are no protection spells but when going red I don't think it matters all that much since this format has a severe lack of hard counters and EtW/Dragonstorm can go off so early that they just win. The snow route could potentiall be taken with Scrying Sheets and shit, but this format is so fast I don't think its necessary. OR, another route you could take the deck would be:

4x Dragonstorm
4x Rite of Flame
4x Sneak Attack
4x Seething Song
4x Top
4x Bogardan Hellkite
4x Emrakul
3x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Desperate Ritual/Grim Monolith/Coalition Relic/Random acceleration

21 lands

I like the idea of mono-red a lot more but this would probably be a little more consistent.

[kicks_422]

I actually had that idea long ago, sans Dragonstorm though. Fast mana+Sneak Attack+Empty the Warrens. I know I posted it around here somewhere, I'll go look for it.

[PaRa]

Hi again,

@ Meekrab: the Propaganda's are by far my worst sideboard slot so i switched them for firespouts now. I guess i lost about 2-3 games due to not having firespouts instead of Propaganda...

So my board is now:

3 Firespout
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Echoing Truth
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Spell Pierce
3 Blood Moon

I will have to tune my mainboard a little as my last tournament convinced me to do so....well after going 0:4 I HAVE TO....

As even bad experiences are good i will share them with you:

Round 1 vs Death and Taxes ( in my eyes not a good MU as you need to win with Progenitus which sometimes takes some time to find)

Game 1: I play a Show and Tell in Round 2 or 3 on Emrakul but he has Mangara for it. After that the gets 2 Canonist out one equipped with Sword of Fire and ice. I can still win as i get a Progenitus into play and try to bounce the Canonists but he swords his own Canonist and rides to victory with the equipped one.

Game 2: I resolved a turn 2 Blood Moon which does what i was supposed to do, shut down his Karakas and Wasteland. But after that i don't find a way to put my Emrakul into play for about 6 turns....game...

0:1 / 0:2

Round 2 vs UBR Faerries:

I don't remember these games too much. I lead 1:0 but in the two postboard games he has a counter for all of my relevant cards and crushes me.

0:2 / 1:4

Round 3 vs Merfolk

Game 1: Win with Emrakul

Game 2: mulligan to 5 cards with not a lot of gas...and...he has gas...

Game 3: I keep a hand of Force, Echoing Truth, Land, Lotus Petal, Brainstorm, Emrakul and Show and Tell. I just need to find 1 land or Petal in the next 3 cards to win but i dont and die miserable...

0:3 / 2:6

Round 4 vs Combo Elves

Game 1: Turn 2 Emrakul with no backup but he combos out on his turn 3

Game 2: Emrakul does the job.

Game 3: He combos out on turn 3 again.

0: 4 / 3:8

Well this sucked...