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Solaran_X
04-10-2010, 01:20 AM
I'll keep the current list I'm using at the top of this thread, for ease of reference. This deck is going to be in constant evolution, and I'd like to refine it to the point where I can run it at GP: Columbus in July without scrubbing out while using it.

Lands (22)
3 Badlands
3 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures (19)
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
3 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Tarmogoyf
Spells (19)
4 Blightning
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sylvan Library
2 Terminate

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Recently, I was inspired to attempt a Legacy port of the popular Jund deck from Standard. This was motivated by two things that have happened recently. First was the successful porting of the Bant deck from Standard, which turned into three different Bant decks in Legacy. Second is how successful Jund is in Standard.

With those in mind, I began drafting various attempts at Jund for Legacy. I was constantly adjusting deck lists and goldfishing them until I settled on the below list. In it's first appearance at a small local tournament (5 people, Round Robin), it went 4-1 in the main portion of the event, and then lost in the final round to the same deck it lost to previously in the event.

Jund
Lands (20)
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
2 Taiga
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures (23)
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
3 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Tarmogoyf
Spells (17)
4 Blightning
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Terminate

Card Choices:
Bloodbraid Elf: 3/2 Haste for 4 isn't necessarily good in Legacy, but she has the added bonus of casting one other random spell in the deck for free when she is played regardless of whether or not she resolves. Plus, she has Haste...so she swings right away.
Dark Confidant: Beats for 2. Draws me an extra card. Seems like a no-brainer.
Grim Lavamancer: Just a generally good creature. Keeps a lot of creatures off the board, and can control Tarmogoyf sizes if needed.
Kird Ape: 2/3 for R. Seems worthwhile.
Sprouting Thrinax: Seems a bit questionable, considering how common Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile are in Legacy. Ignoring those factors though, it's a 3/3 for 3 that effectively chumps Tarmogoyf 4 times.
Tarmogoyf: It's Goyf.
Blightning: Still not entirely sold on this spell myself. Would be better (obviously) if it could hit creatures also, but as it is it deals three damage and generates card advantage by forcing your opponent to discard two at the cost of one of your own.
Chain Lightning: 3 damage for 1 mana. Seems good.
Lightning Bolt: 3 damage for 1 mana. Seems good.
Maelstrom Pulse: At worst, it's a 1:1 trade. At best, it can nail multiple threats in one shot. Just a bit troublesome in the Naya Zoo match up if I'm facing down multiple copies on my opponent's side of creatures I also have in play (Kird Apes, Tarmogoyfs, Grim Lavamancers). But an excellent way to deal with what Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning can't deal with - Tarmogoyfs, Knights of the Reliquary, Baneslayer Angels, etc., etc.
Terminate: 2 mana non-damage answer to any non-Shroud creature in the format. Just like Pulse, it's good for what Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning can't hit.

There's a few other things I'd like to test in this deck.
1) Kird Ape => Putrid Leech: Kird Ape is an excellent creature, but in the Naya Zoo match up it gets eaten by Wild Nacatl. Putrid Leech seems to be Jund's answer to Wild Nacatl in Standard, and seems like it would work in Legacy. Not only does it kill Wild Nacalt, it also takes 2 burns spells typically to kill it.
2) Dark Confidant => Sylvan Library: I like Bob. A lot. But it hurts bad when he flips a Bloodbraid Elf or Blightning. I feel like Sylvan Library may be better in this slot. It's the same casting cost as Bob, and can help set up Cascade effects off of a Bloodbraid Elf if you plan ahead. And if you really need the extra draw, it's not worse than flipping a Bloodbraid Elf off of Bob.
3) Maelstrom Pulse/Terminate Ratio: Right now I'm running a 3/2 split, which is what Jund typically does in Standard. However, since Legacy is significantly faster, it feels that maybe a reversal to a 2/3 split would be good to give me more early non-damage removal.
4) Mana Balance: Right now, the deck is running on 7 red sources, 6 green sources, and 7 black sources. While this seems well balanced, sometimes I feel starved for green mana even though it only has 1 less source than red and black.

That is all I got for now. I'll update this post as I get some more solid test results. Right now, my testing has been limited to the following:
1) Enchantress: This match up seems to be very difficult. If I can kill them before they establish position and drop Solitary Confinement, it's all gravy obviously. However, Solitary Confinement is typically game over, especially with Sterling Groves protecting it. It seems like a couple Burning Wishes and some Reverent Silences in the sideboard would be nice if Enchantress is expected.
2) Naya Zoo: This pretty much comes down to whoever keeps a creature in play first. Both decks pack Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning. Naya Zoo has Lightning Helix and Swords to Plowshares (or Path to Exile). Jund Zoo has Terminate and Maelstrom Pulse.
3) Ichorid: This seems like a favorable match up so far. I can easily kill my own creatures to clear their Bridges, and after bringing in Leyline, I can actually cast it from my hand if it is bounced.
4) 43 Land: I don't feel that this match up is winnable. All I can think of is Blood Moon, which requires a heavy setup of my own basic lands before I can drop it. And by that time, they could have their single basic Island in play and ready to Chain it back to my hand.
5) Merfolk: This is the match up where Grim Lavamancer really shines. If he comes down turn 1, as long as I keep a steady flow of cards into my yard (using burn, using fetchlands, getting spells countered), he does a good job of keeping the Merfolk in check.

BKeola
04-13-2010, 01:14 AM
[DECK] GRB Zoo

Lands
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
2 Bayou
3 Badlands

Creatures
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Sprouting Thrinax

Spells
3 Sylvan Library
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Chrome Mox
3 Price of Progress
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sprouting Thrinax
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Engineered Plague
1 Firespout
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Krosan Grip
1 Choke

I've elected to go with a low cmc version of the deck that is more suited to the modern Legacy meta. It also makes Bob less painful. Putrid Leech is a step in the wrong direction. This deck is fat with 2 drops as is, and Leech seems like it will end up costing us 4+ life more often than not. We need to cut back on the t2 cards and play more good legacy cards. You seem to be right on track with that in most other regards. The manabase is designed to emphasize fetching out basics to make Price of Progress one-sided.

Nimble Mongoose: Shroud. 3/3. Threshold doesn't take too long with this deck. 4 of.

Grim Lavamancer: I truly despise this guy when played with Goyf and Goose. I run more fetches to help support him, and the increased card availability via confidant help makes supporting threshold and occasional Lavamancer activations difficult but doable. Still I prefer not have my deck playing against me so to speak, and really dislike Lavamancer in multiples. For those reasons he's only a 2 of.

Dark Confidant: Gives you cards, which in turn you play to win the game. If your playing a low CMC curve deck including black in Legacy, this guy is a 4 of.

Tarmogoyf: I hear this character can be rather large. 4 of.

Sprouting Thrinax: Either soaks up a Path to Plowshares or stalls out the board for four swings. Good against Zoo and other aggro, shitty against Survival (giving them more time to develop there board is counter-productive, unless you have Pulse, then its hilarious card advantage.) 2-3 of.

Bloodbraid Elf: Elf is too slow for Legacy. We could run NO-genitus instead and I'm pretty sure it would be a better call. In my list its a 3/2 haste that comes down turn 4 (or 3 with mox) and costs between 1-3 mana. The remaining 1-3 mana nets you a free card that you may or may not need (or in the case of maelstrom pulse, might potentially ruin your day). It also gives knowledge of any cards placed on the bottom of the library (in this deck that amounts to just land cards). To get maximum effect she makes you want to make the whole deck way too slow. She encourages running tons of Thrinaxes and Pulses and Blightnings and other cards that are very good, but leave your first few turns dead, something you can't really afford to do in Legacy anymore.

Sylvan Library: More cards, and it helps smooth your draws to make cards from confidant free or at least cheaper. Alone, it works well with fetches. With it and Confidant in play, fetching can be somewhat unpredictable if not actually that harmful. 3 of max.

Chrome Mox: We have 7 dedicated card producing slots and 4 slots that can produce tempo and CA when played to maximum effect. As a result, the recoverable loss in cards seems worth the resultant tempo boost. Paying no life on confidant is a nice bonus. Playing multiples always sucks, 3 is reccomended.

Lightning Bolt: 1 for 3 all day. One of the most veratile cards in legacy

Price of Progress: 2 for 6? or more? Rarely less than 4. Unlike Fireblast, it doesn't make you facepalm when you flop it on Bob

Terminate: Instant speed creature kill for 2. Probably one of the most convincing reasons to play red in this deck.

Thoughtseize: Pick a card and make Goyf large. Use knowledge of your opponents hand to your advantage. And to guarantee sucess with Cabal Therapy. 3 of.

Cabal Therapy: It's been said that no card rewards knowledge of the format and player skill quite like Therapy. And its true. 2 in main 1 in board. Side it in most games, once you know what deck they're playing.

Hymn to Tourach: Its kinda like Blightning, except it costs one less and doesn't give your opponent the benefit of choosing which cards to discard. Better against control, worse against aggro.

Sinkhole: You could run this card in conjunction with Wasteland in order to play a mana denial sub-strategy. Ironically, you would need to sacrifice your resiliency to Wasteland by running less basics in order to fit Wastelands, or reduce the amount fetches in the deck and therefore the broke-ness of Sylvan Library. I'd personally rather leave mana denial to Team America/Eva Green.

Maelstrom Pulse: Vindicate that doesn't hit lands, but will blow up all the Tarmogoyf's in the world. Including yours. Still blanket removal for 3 makes me feel warm and fuzzy. 2-3 of.

Blightning: Synthetic CA + damage. Good against Aggro, less so against Control because your opponent chooses to pitch dead cards. This card is rather powerful however and shouldn't be outright dismissed in any matchup. 3 Life points and two cards in hand is one hell of a trade when you only pay 3 mana and one card in hand. 2-3 of.

Why should you play this deck over RWG Zoo?
You shouldn't. RWG Zoo is perfectly tailored to exploiting what this deck is best at: Aggression. Not playing Bob makes playing fireblast possible and Fireblast is actually very good at ending games. Path to Plowshares effects are good, and so is Lightning Helix. RWG Zoo can and will win games on turns 3-4 consistently.

This RBG version is designed to better tangle with control decks and if you side in your therapies and chalices hopefully not bend over and take it from combo games 2-3. What do we do against a resolved counterbalance? We cry and hope we can sneak in Maelstrom Pulse.

Hopefully we will be nabbing any such troublesome enchantments with Thoughtseize or Cabal Therapy. This is probably less optimal than just running 4x Pridemage and boarding Grips however.

This deck can be very hard to control and played correctly should be very resilient and disruptive. A Survival engine could be added with minimal difficulty, although the strategy of running on basics would seem less apealing with Surivival maindecked. However, the card advantage, stability and speed to be gained could be just what the deck needs for a power boost in todays aggressive Legacy.

Anyway good luck with the deck.

bakofried
04-13-2010, 01:49 AM
Have you tried a Rock-esque list? That seems like it would be a good bit better.

BKeola
04-13-2010, 08:59 PM
Have you tried a Rock-esque list? That seems like it would be a good bit better. Yeah, Pernicious Deed is a good card. Not really Zoo anymore, but thats probably for the best.

Combo Winter
04-14-2010, 05:23 AM
i think that slowing the deck down a bit might be good in that you could own the zoo matchup by being the bigger red deck. The type 2 jund deck is about playing the most powerful cards its a very differant than the 3 duce 20/20/20 build of zoo decks. As a result i would focus on playing just the best cards possible and play 24 lands(mana sources) like type 2 jund. I chose to play blue as the fourth color because trinket mage is like bloodbraid elves 5-7 and the play bloodbraid elves-trinketmage is way more powerful than elf into tharanix.


4 brainstorm
4 lightning bolt
1 balisk collor
1 top
1 enginered explosives
2 terminate
4 thought seize

4 bloodbraid elf
4 goyf
4 tombstalker
4 sakura tribe elder
3 trinket mage


mana
4 chrome mox
4 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mire
2 forest
1 swamp
1 mountain
2 bayou
2 tiaga
1 tree of tales
1 trop
1 underground sea
1 badlands