New "Extended Plus" format coming?

[PhanTom_lt]

There's a thread on MTG Salvation with rumors/info about the soon to be announced new format. Here's the main points:

1. Normal constructed Magic rules apply. This isn't a special-rules format like EDH or Planechase.
2. All cards printed during Masques block and later blocks, plus associated core sets, are legal (except banned cards, of course).
3. Nothing ever rotates out.

As this is really important to the longevity of Legacy as a format, I figured it would be interesting to hear your opinions. So, what do you think?

[Xaul Zan]

how is it important ? seems terrible to me. why not just play extended ? or even better, legacy ?

[DrJones]

The new format will be Archenemy, obviously.

[Aleksandr]

There's nothing to think about, until the info is official...
:really:

[Goaswerfraiejen]

So... basically Legacy without dual lands, right? Frankly, I'd rather play Legacy WITH dual lands, and start seeing some support at the local level.

[Penguinizer]

It'll probably be like Legacy, except Zoo wins because it's one of the few decks that doesn't lose much beyond it's manabase. I don't like the idea at all.

[Exospaciac]

I really hope this doesn't happen.
If anything, WotC should just promote more BYOS instead of making another Extended format.

No one really plays Extended anyways.
Why would they do this?

[Penguinizer]

Now that I think about it. Who would play it? The expensive cards will always be expensive. Legacy players won't play it. I can't think of one deck that doesn't lose major cards. Extended and T2 players are not likely to bother. I don't really see this working at all.

The more I think about it. It'll really be extended+. Thopter Depths will still be a really strong deck as it doesn't really lose much. I do not like this at all.

[majikal]

There's a thread on MTG Salvation
link?

Seriously though, 99% of these kinds of threads on that site are nothing but baseless conjecture and rampant speculation.

[Penguinizer]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=236448

hmm, I suppose I'm better off than some if this happens. I can actually adapt my deck. Some people will not be nearly as lucky. Not only will they only be creating a redundant format, they'll alienate another portion of their fanbase.

[sclabman]

I think for this idea to be any good they'll have to go back much farther than Masques, I'd say start at Ice Age Block. There needs to be a format with Force of Will.

Really this is just stupid... what seems simpler: Creating an entirely new format that is basically indistinguishable from Extended, or just Ctrl+A and DEL the Reserve list? Keep it simple stupid.

[xTrainx]

Same thing I wrote on Salvation...

I like Legacy right now, but as a 'non dual' owner, I would be fine with this new format, but I have concerns about the health of the format.

It feels as if WotC are trying to split the two player groups, which would result in fewer tournaments for each, and then you have issues involving cardpool.

No FoW = combotastic - there just isn't enough defense for other players. Mindbreak Trap only works post board, and there is more than enough discard for combo to rule.

Overall, I think that this is a horrible idea.

[Penguinizer]

I agree with all of that. I think we should make a list of decks that would actually remain viable. Some major decks are killed, but so are a lot of interesting lower tier decks.

[majikal]

Why does any of this even matter? So they make another format. Big deal, Legacy still exists. They're not going to kill an entire format; all this is is an alternative, if it's even true. Just keep organizing and playing in the Legacy tournaments we've already got. At the worst, we won't get any more GPs, and honestly I'm okay with that.

[Necrogeist]

As they mentioned in the mtgsalvation thread, placing the start of this at Masques block leaves brainstorm, counterspell, and dark ritual in the format, while excluding the brokenness of Urza Block - I imagine they want to make as few bans as possible for this format.

Mono-U Merfolk would be able to survive in this pretty well, losing only Force of Will to the change. I imagine Zoo would be much the same, albeit without Chain Lightning if you choose to run it. Unfortunately, Combo will definitely reign, with Charbelcher, Storm, and other combos still in play (albeit without some acceleration, and no Grindstone or Helm of Obedience). Dredge will also be intact, though Bloodghast Dredge will take a hit with the loss of Undiscovered Paradise. Perhaps Foil or Mindbreak Trap will start being maindecked to hold combo off? It would certainly be interesting...

[lordofthepit]

Not a fan of this idea for multiple reasons, most of which includes splitting the Legacy community.

I also have a soft spot for the Mirage/Tempest/Urza's Block, as that's when I started playing. I quit around the time Mercadian Masques came out and didn't return to the game for a while (and never looked at Standard even when I did), so I have no sentimental reason to even consider looking at this new format, if the rumor is true.

[Cabal_chan]

Don't really care. To be honest, I just see this as another WotC attempt to distract/direct attention away from the screws up they did over the Reserved List.

'Hey guys, Legacy's really popular! Let's push it somemore. Wait, prices are going up? Let's ask some prominent players/card stores what they think and...oh wait, we can't? NDA sorry folks.'
'Hey guys, B&R Discussion? You like that, don't you?'
'Hey guys, possible new Legacy Lite/Extended Heavy format. Doesn't solve the price/staples problem. In fact, it will just exacerbate the problem with some cards because there might be new demand on cards. We secretly want to kill you off like Vintage so we figure high prices + trying to split your player base is a good idea.

Meh.

Edit: Ooops. Forgot my sarcasm tags.

[TheBirdMan]

I would love to play Mind's desire with burning wish's and cabal rits again, I welcome this sweet format.

[Roman Candle]

Combo does lose LED in this format, though, which does weaken it significantly.

[xTrainx]

I've run LEDless ANT for a while now, simply because of cost. Losing LED doesn't do a lot when you don't build for it, although it does remove some interactions, and it is slower and less resilient.

Even without LEDs, combo will still be incredibly strong.

[anonymos]

Really? Do we need to talk about this again?

I'll ignore the format unless they call it "Overextended".

/thread

[wolf197]

Legacy has gotten to the point where it has become as stagnant as standard or as I have come to to call it the jund format. I don't understand why you guys feel threatened by a format that will just weed the weaker players out. I mean come on, you guys can still go to your tournaments and watch the same 8 decks top 8 every tournament, you will just be able to watch those same 8 decks get there faster.

[Eldariel]

Legacy has gotten to the point where it has become as stagnant as standard or as I have come to to call it the jund format. I don't understand why you guys feel threatened by a format that will just weed the weaker players out. I mean come on, you guys can still go to your tournaments and watch the same 8 decks top 8 every tournament, you will just be able to watch those same 8 decks get there faster.

Are you being sarcastic? I mean, how can you consider Legacy "stale"? By any measure, for a competitive format, there has basically never been a format with a larger number of options you can reasonably expect to win a tournament with and with more shifting in the top tier. Like, take DTB. Then take half of Established Decks and few N&Ds. Master any one of those decks and you'll have a reasonable chance to win a tournament. Sure, DTB forum "only" contains what, 9 distinct archetypes (that's the top tier of the format) and a ton of variety within those archetypes along with a few near misses, but even the Tempest-Kamigawa Extended only topped around similar numbers.

[Pastorofmuppets]

the logical walls of text by Fearmeordie are all by me. I think this is interesting, but... Well, just but.

[Aleksandr]

No FoW = combotastic - there just isn't enough defense for other players.

There's always Foil.
And than you can Reanimate the discarded Leviathan.

Strange format, indeed.

[wolf197]

Are you being sarcastic? I mean, how can you consider Legacy "stale"? By any measure, for a competitive format, there has basically never been a format with a larger number of options you can reasonably expect to win a tournament with and with more shifting in the top tier. Like, take DTB. Then take half of Established Decks and few N&Ds. Master any one of those decks and you'll have a reasonable chance to win a tournament. Sure, DTB forum "only" contains what, 9 distinct archetypes (that's the top tier of the format) and a ton of variety within those archetypes along with a few near misses, but even the Tempest-Kamigawa Extended only topped around similar numbers.

yes I was being sarcastic in a way. Understandable the meta in europe is generally different from here. I have been attending legacy tournaments for the last two years and while I am not a great player I do spend considerable time reading tournament reports and meta breakdowns and if you take the time to really look at the format as a whole it is really not as wide open as people like to make it sound you would think that with the huge card pool there would see more than 30 or so viable decks and you would see more than 10 of those decks consistently making top 8. I think the format as whole would benefit from some competition to shake things up and possiibly getting a fresh take on things. Standard shapes the way extended shifts every year so why not a format that might do the same thing for legacy.

[MMogg]

There's always Foil.
And than you can Reanimate the discarded Leviathan.

Strange format, indeed.

Reanimate is not legal in this mythical new format.

[Gocho]

If the rumor is true, I expect that they reprint FOW and Wasteland as soon as possible.
I don't like the idea :(

[Aleksandr]

Reanimate is not legal in this mythical new format.

I meant Life//Death, of course. :smile: :cool:

[General_Norris]

Meh this new format makes very little sense, it's probably pure speculation but I really fear it's true. It will deliver a hard blow to Leacgy but the new format will not gain steam because there's very little to gain in it compared to Extended. Hell, it's just old extended and even though that was a great format it's very redundant.

I call fake. I don't think Wizards wants to destroy Legacy after GP Madrid to create a non-rotating extended after making extended rotate faster. Makes no sense.

Unforunatedly, this leaves me in a very bad position if true since Stax can't be buit in this "new format" because the core of the deck is from Tempest.

[walkerdog]

yes I was being sarcastic in a way. Understandable the meta in europe is generally different from here. I have been attending legacy tournaments for the last two years and while I am not a great player I do spend considerable time reading tournament reports and meta breakdowns and if you take the time to really look at the format as a whole it is really not as wide open as people like to make it sound you would think that with the huge card pool there would see more than 30 or so viable decks and you would see more than 10 of those decks consistently making top 8. I think the format as whole would benefit from some competition to shake things up and possiibly getting a fresh take on things. Standard shapes the way extended shifts every year so why not a format that might do the same thing for legacy.

10 decks making t8 is very wide open. You are pretty dumb if you think it is not.

[stuckpixel]

Legacy has gotten to the point where it has become as stagnant as standard or as I have come to to call it the jund format. I don't understand why you guys feel threatened by a format that will just weed the weaker players out. I mean come on, you guys can still go to your tournaments and watch the same 8 decks top 8 every tournament, you will just be able to watch those same 8 decks get there faster.

Um, you haven't really played much legacy, have you? There are far more than 8 competitive decks. Calling legacy 'The Jund Format' really doesn't mean anything - though it does illustrate your ignorance. Beyond that, if there were just 8 competitive decks, that'd be noticeably better than standard, where there's one, maybe two competitive decks.


That point aside. The Extended Plus format is a positives and negatives deal to me. Positives being that we'd get a format where WoTC can reprint everything if they deem the format is having supply issues. WoTC would also be able to generate more money with this format than say Legacy, so that's a positive too.

Negative for me is that it's basically going to be attempting to usurp Legacy. Given the pricepoint to enter legacy, this will absorb a lot of the newer legacy players who haven't bought in yet. Another negative is that this would devolve into combo town. I mean, look at extended. It's basically 'choose your combo deck - or play zoo'. That doesn't sound appealing to me. In order for the format to not be combotown, you'd need to print a good counterspell - like reprinting FoW in M11 or something.

Ultimately, would I play it? If FoW or the like is reprinted, sure. Helping define a new format would be fun. I just don't feel like playing combo v combo matches all the time.

[Wargoos]

This format will force a price increase for post masques legacy staples making both Legacy and the new format itself more expensive.
However wizards would have the opportunity to reprint stuff to keep the prices at bay.

This all would be a nice interesting matter to discuss if the news just weren't a lie.

Oh, and wolf obviously doesn't know what he is talking about since Legacy is the most diverse format in the game.

[Penguinizer]

It is. In addition to the more commonly played DTBs. There are a ton of decks that are still good and have a fair chance of doing very well.

[anonymos]

So I posted here about the whole "Overextended" thing, thinking this was purely speculation.

Star City Games posted the same thing on their facebook stuff last night. :(

[Nightmare]

I'm gonna try and consolidate the conversation into this thread:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17205-New-Competitive-Eternal-Format-Coming

Please continue there on this discussion. Thanks.