Bridge from Below

[Zappa]

I used the search engine to see what others have used gamekeeper with, but search did not show much results. But, I wanna take this opportunity if I may be able to get some tips, advise or just any insights regarding this deck. It has not had any tournament play testing, just some mws games, as I am not sure what the proper build to go with, before I invest any money.

What I am trying to achieve with this deck, is much like the interaction between dredge's sac outlets, to generate a lot of tokens to overwhelm to opponent with, while also having the opponent stare at a 15/15 threat with no cards in hand. Depleting his hand with any relevant cards, that may hinder you from progressing into your plans. I believe that the role that I am trying to take, is to play control, until I can come across the specific cards I needed to be set before I can go for the win. The cards I needed to accomplish this task is Gamekeeper and Cabal Therapy. The deck is centered around gamekeeper and cabal therapy much more than the bridge, so I dunno why I named it Bridge. :P

The deck I am currently working with is as follows:

EDIT: Decklist got some changes due to suggestion from others.

14 Snow-covered Swamp
4 Tainted Wood
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Snow-covered Forest

4 Worldly Tutor
3 Ground Seal

4 Gamekeeper
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Bridge from Below (Might be taken out for Sensei's Divining Top)

(This card seems to be the most questionable slot in the deck, as others have pointed out that it seems like it is not needed. As the deck just mainly relies on gamekeeper and cabal therapy to bring out the 15/15 fatty. Since the deck is trying to take the role of a control deck, anyone have any good opinions on what can help this control deck with the extra slots?)

4 Innocent Blood
4 Pernicious Deed

1 Roar of the Wurm (Might be taken out for Raven's Crime)


//Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Syphon Life
1 Ancient Grudge
1 ray of Revelation
4 Engineered Plague

The plan is to take the role of a control deck, depleting their hand with any relevant threats. Innocent Blood and Pernicious Deed helps, clear the board of whatever is causing me problems. Until I can get Gamekeeper online and have Cabal Therapy ready for flashback. The singleton creature, aside from the Gamekeeper themselves is there to allow me to try sacrifice the 4th Gamekeeper, should the need to do so arise.

I was at first unsure of wether or not Flame-kin Zealot or Iona would have been much better choice, but I was worried of drawing into them. Roar of the Wurm felt kind of random, but I feel that there would be some turns when I am not doing anything, and would have much prefered to do something during that turn, than simply just pass the turn.

If there has been a discussion about the same approach, please kindly redirect me with a link. As the search engine did not really yield any results. If not, then I was wondering if I may get some advise or insights about the deck. At the moment, I just focused with Black and Green, and I am relying on blacks capability to attack opponent's hands and get rid of whatever relevant cards they have in order to protect my gamekeeper.

Thanks.

EDIT 2:
I am also wondering if increasing the flashbacks like Roar of the Wurm would also be recommended. Which could be used to increase threat density, and as well as bring in some threats when I would otherwise have nothing else to do.

EDIT 3:
Bridge from Below, as brought up by a couple of posters, seems like it is not needed. As the most important part of the deck, is basically the gamekeeper and cabal therapy. This does lead the deck to open up to a top decked sacrifice cards from the opponent (if top decked answers are even much of a factor, given the chance). However, it does open up 4 additional slots to the deck that can further help progress help it's gameplan of either bringing out gamekeeper/cabal therapy at a more reliable rate. Or bring in more cards to help protect the combo. Any thoughts on the matter specially for a control deck?

[Roman Candle]

I think Emrakul is probably the best guy you can play with Gamekeeper. He's pretty impossible to kill and just goes OMNOMNOM all up in the opponent's shit.

Also, play Thoughtseize. It's much better than Duress.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

You play 5 creatures, 1 of which should never hit the yard. Why do you have Bridge in this deck? It just seems terrible here.

[TokenMaster]

His idea was to use Gamekeeper to fill the graveyard, then eventually go into his bomb.(which should be Emrakul)

[Jeff Kruchkow]

His idea was to use Gamekeeper to fill the graveyard, then eventually go into his bomb.(which should be Emrakul)

I get the idea. Its just that its bad. Sure some games you'll be cool and never draw a bridge AND get gamekeeper AND sac him AND mill some bridges AND hit a second gamekeeper and sac that one, but honestly it won't happen often. That and this deck actually intended to use its draw step to draw meaning that you can draw them as just about the worst topdeck ever. No thanks.

[Zappa]

Thanks for the Emrakul advise, don't really know how that slipped my mind. I went with duress, mainly due to current budget constraints since I am currently still in the process of getting better cards for one of my current deck. Duress at the moment is just my place holder till i can get the cards I need and then the thoughtseizes.

As for that guy that said "no thanks". I am not trying to force, nor trying to get you to play the deck. Also as far as I know, there's nothing wrong with actually using your draw step. Worse comes, you an always aim a therapy at yourself if it ever comes down to it. With all the hand destruction aimed at the opponent, it's not really a problem. Never seeing a single bridge with all the gamekeeper chains, is also very unlikely, and also the factor of the opponent staring down a 15/15 with an empty hand is pretty scary as well.

[Grollub]

Burrowing a page from old T2, Iridescent Drake+Abduction works very well with Gamekeepers and a constant sac outlet. I don't know if it's any better than just putting a fatty into play, but thought it was worth mentioning. :)

[Zappa]

@Grollub

Thanks for taking the time to respond as well, and trying to give me some options. But the drake however, has a new oracle text since then, that you needed to actually play the card from your hand in order to get the effect. Unless you actually meant to hard cast. Thanks though.

[Roman Candle]

I have to wonder if Bridge from Below is even necessary in the deck, since you should win if you drop Emrakul. That would open up deck slots and cut down on dead draws.

[bleuisforwhimps]

A friend of mine plays almost the same list, he plays; -4 bridge, -1roar of the wurm, +1 emrakul, +4 dark ritual and instead of ground seal he plays living wish and phyrexian tower in the sideboard . And the deck is really competitive, gamekeeper +cabal therapy is awesome. I feel that bridge is actually in the categorie'danger of cool things' and is just killing the opponent a bit more because all you need is emrakul while his hand is raped.

[Grollub]

@Grollub

Thanks for taking the time to respond as well, and trying to give me some options. But the drake however, has a new oracle text since then, that you needed to actually play the card from your hand in order to get the effect. Unless you actually meant to hard cast. Thanks though.
They removed the errata from it. :)



Iridescent Drake
Creature - Drake 2/2, 3U (4)
Flying

When Iridescent Drake enters the battlefield, put target Aura card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control attached to Iridescent Drake.
Illus. Jim Nelson

Gatherer Card Rulings?, Legality?
10/4/2004: If you pick an Aura that can't legally enchant this card, then the enchantment stays in the graveyard.
10/4/2004: You must pick an Aura even if there are only undesirable ones in the graveyard.
4/1/2008: This card used to have errata that kept it from triggering if it wasn't cast from your hand. This errata has since been removed, so the ability will trigger regardless of where the Drake was before entering the battlefield.

[Zappa]

I have to wonder if Bridge from Below is even necessary in the deck, since you should win if you drop Emrakul. That would open up deck slots and cut down on dead draws.

It came to my mind as well, but one of the reasons that's preventing me from taking it out was that, 3 of the cards I see quite often is actually that Gatekeeper of Malakir and Diabolic Edict. From a not so seen much, but I still play against it are smallpox and Innocent blood. Fore a while, I was just considering taking them out and replacing with additional flashback cards, however, sacrifice things is what I was worried about. But true, taking them out could possibly open up additional slots that can be either used for either more control and disruption, or perhaps some ways to manipulate library. However, I also like having the tokens as a form of a win condition as well. But yes, the key cards in this deck isnt so much the bridge but the Gamekeeper and Cabal Therapy.

If I were to take out the bridges, have anything in mind that can benefit the deck?


A friend of mine plays almost the same list, he plays; -4 bridge, -1roar of the wurm, +1 emrakul, +4 dark ritual and instead of ground seal he plays living wish and phyrexian tower in the sideboard . And the deck is really competitive, gamekeeper +cabal therapy is awesome. I feel that bridge is actually in the categorie'danger of cool things' and is just killing the opponent a bit more because all you need is emrakul while his hand is raped.

Just like what was said to the other poster. I was worried about sacrifice cards. I've been thinking about the Bridges but I was mainly concerned with sacrifice cards,but I do unerstand that the deck can free up quite a bit of space. The roar is one of my fall back cards I can bring out after wiping the board clear with a deed, though a singleton of such card probably won't do much. It was one of the things I was considering replacing bridges with. The ground seal I use as a means of protecting my stuff, and I'm enjoying the cantrip effect quite a lot.

Since I am trying to play the role of control here, I am not too sure about dark ritual, and top decked ritual is not something I'll enjoy as well. For a deck trying to take control, wouldn't some more ways to manipulate library be a better choice as well? Like perhaps maybe SDT or some sort of tutor effect?

But yes, I'll definitely keep the idea of removing a bridge. Perhaps I'll try a 2nd experimental decklist with out it. One with Bridge and one without and try to compare the two from there on.

[Zappa]

They removed the errata from it. :)

Hm, so the errata was removed? Then that card can be considered as well. However, I am actualy going to have to asked here, if this will be any better than that 15/15 fatty. As that fatty only also occupies 1 main deck slot. Thanks for the recommendation and informing me of the update.

***Original post edited.


EDIT:
Would this be a stronger decklist than above? The change is the loss of the bridge for the inclusion of Sensei's Divining Top to manipulate my draws, and improve my role of control. I've also replaced the singleton roar of the wurm and replaced with Raven's Crime to make sure my pieces really gets protected.


14 Snow-covered Swamp
4 Tainted Wood
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Snow-covered Forest

4 Gamekeeper
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Worldly Tutor
3 Ground Seal

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Pernicious Deed
4 Innocent Blood

1 Raven's Crime

Does this look more solid than the original list? Or does Sensei's Divining Top does little for the deck? If so any other suggestions?

[bleuisforwhimps]

Top is definitely needed here, since you only play one emrakul. You could eventually cabal yourself if you draw him but top is definitely the beter option.Still not convinced about the ground seal and wordly tutor, maybe some testing will prove me wrong :) .

[Grollub]

One nice feature of the Bridges tho is that you don't fold to a edict effect off the opponents top (I suppose a singleton Dragon Breath does too, and in most cases speed up the actual kill a full turn). :)

Some way to accelerate the combo looks like it could be handy -- or has the disruption and answers been enough to delay your opponent?

[Roman Candle]

Dragon's Breath and Iridescent Drake don't work as well as you think they do. If the Dragon Breath/aura you want to put on Drake is put into the graveyard with the same Gamekeeper that puts out your fatty, you won't get to take it back. This is because Gamekeeper puts the creature into play, and then the cards to the graveyard.

EDIT: Eh, I feel like the one turn window they have to draw an Edict/wrath effect is fine. None of the DTB's play any Edict effects to my knowledge, and you'll have been able to Therapy away any they already had in hand when you combo out. And if Emrakul survives to attack once, its pretty hard for you to lose. I feel like Edicts are less of a concern than the wasted deck slots from the inefficient Bridges.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

You might wanna search for an old thread called "The Game". Its the same principle as your deck.

[Grollub]

Dragon's Breath and Iridescent Drake don't work as well as you think they do. If the Dragon Breath/aura you want to put on Drake is put into the graveyard with the same Gamekeeper that puts out your fatty, you won't get to take it back. This is because Gamekeeper puts the creature into play, and then the cards to the graveyard.
You sure about this? Drake/Abduction used to work back in the days, and I can see no errata on Gamekeeper.

[Roman Candle]

You sure about this? Drake/Abduction used to work back in the days, and I can see no errata on Gamekeeper.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17256-gamekeeper-interaction-ruling

Yeah, pretty much, unless cdr is wrong.

[Zappa]

Went to the card shop today to buy my missing pieces, since the card shop can now sell the RoE cards. Got myself a couple of Emarakuls (yey!), as well as doing some finishing touches on the deck. Though there's still several doubts I am having, I am just not sure what to do. My eyes kinda hurt testing combinations of cards in MWS,at the moment I am comfortable with my new list as I even went to the shop and buy the cards I am missing. But several slots, I have doubts with, and hoping I may get some insights.

I looked at the forums regarding anything that has Gamekeeper in it. Checked wizards, salvation, SCG and TMD as well. While the most popular one seems to be Bomberman/Grahams, there were a few BG ones as well, but dates back for quite a long while as their main win-condition was Darksteel Colossus, and Salvagers for the other. Those lists, as I read through the forums, are much more concerned on trying to pull off the combo. However, I am trying to play the deck as just a control deck, a control deck that just has a combo-eque finish.

I am not concerned with trying to bring out the combo out ASAP, I am concerned with controlling to game up to that certain point. One major issue I am having is what to do with my 7 slots as my means of card draws or means of improving card quality. I used whatever came into my mind, but I am interested on what others would put instead, on those 7 slots, with a control deck in mind.

I am trying to prepare and get ready as in 3 days (Monday), I am going to try and enter with this deck, I'll also provide the common types of decks, I regularly see. However, at the moment this is what I currently have. The ones with asterisks on them are the slots I have some doubts on, or trying to see other's opinion on what would be better.

//Lands (25) ***
16 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Tainted Wood

//Library Manipulation (7)
4 Sensei's Divining Top ***
3 Diabolic Tutor ***

//Creatures (6)
4 Gamekeeper
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

//Protection (13)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
1 Raven's Crime

//Board Control (9)
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Innocent Blood
1 Crippling Fatigue ***


//Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Unmask
4 Contagion

The cards with asterisks on them:
1) 25 Lands.
MWS testing between versions with 24 lands and 25 lands, did not show significant differences. Either the program's randomization just gave me a good order of cards, or the difference is just very marginal. The main issue I was mainly looking forward to adress, is being able to hit the 4th land, as thats where my mana curve tops, and the main card I needed out, which is game keeper is also 4 mana. I decided to go to 25, as I wanted to hit that 4th land drop with ease and also factoring in Wasteland from the opposition. Tests with MWS between 24 and 25 didn't really gave any signifficant results.

2) The library manipulation cards.
The 7 slots where I am unsure wether top and "etc" would be better, or if I should just focus on actual draw cards, even though they cause me to lose life. Such cards would be things like Phyrexian Arena, Night's Whisper and/or Sign in Blood. Thoughts on the matter?

3) The singleton Crippling Fatigue.
There's been quite a few times where I was playing with one of my AIM buddies and when I was doing Gamekeeper's trigger, I ran into another Gamekeeper, but with no way to kill it, as the Cabal Therapy cards were no where to be seen. I figured adding an extra card to improve my chances of Gamekeeper chains would help in those situations. Plus it can also be used as a form of removal on some problematic creatures.

At the moment, I'm tired of reading through other forums, and tired of staring at MWS interface, so I'll take some rest and take a break. However, I'm hoping I can get some insights on those things that I had an asterisk on. As I wanna bring this on the tournament that's coming in a few days. Thank you.

[sunshine]

Dropping Worldly Tutor in favor of Diabolic Tutor seems a little suspect. Grim Tutor at least curves into Gamekeeper, but even that looks sub optimal as you want to be spending mana on your turn to attack the opponent's hand or creature base.

I'd favor moving some number of Contagion into the main deck as well - possibly looking at Raven's Crime as the first cut. It's cute that you can play it from your yard but it'll most often get there once you're already winning, and you definitely want to hit your first four land drops so I can't imagine taking advantage of the retrace early on. For that matter why not just run a split of 3-2 split of Thoughtseize-Duress over 4-1 Duress-Crime? Being able to rip creatures from your opponents hand seems rather valuable seeing as you can't run too many of your own to absorb some damage.

[Zappa]

Hi and thank you for the response.

Dropping Worldly Tutor in favor of Diabolic Tutor seems a little suspect.
Hm, I had a several mixed review about the Worldly Tutor. Quite a lot of people didn't like it and said that it's just to get the Gamekeeper, which is what I want to get anyways. But some others have mentioned that Diabolic Tutor and Insidious Dreams can help me get the cards I needed first to stabilize the board, like for example getting a Pernicious Deed, or finding a Cabal Therapy. But after play testing it in MWS, the Insidious Dreams felt extremely slow, and costs just as much mana as Diabolic Tutor.


Grim Tutor at least curves into Gamekeeper, but even that looks sub optimal as you want to be spending mana on your turn to attack the opponent's hand or creature base.
Someone mentioned the card to me, I didn't even know about the card, and when I mentioned that I'll go to the card shop and get it, he made a comment if I am sure, then I looked at the price tag on it and I was like... "ummm... I'm pretty sure that I can't afford it." :laugh:


I'd favor moving some number of Contagion into the main deck as well
Really? Hmmm... we'll I do have access to the card already so I can just throw them in the main deck and give them a shot. I am guessing it is to just buy me some time vs the likes of zoo and merfolks? Other than that though, there's few creatures that I can actually nail with it. That is why I put them in the sideboard and bring them out against really fast aggro decks that I could use some cushioning or buy me some time.


possibly looking at Raven's Crime as the first cut. It's cute that you can play it from your yard but it'll most often get there once you're already winning, and you definitely want to hit your first four land drops so I can't imagine taking advantage of the retrace early on.
I noticed that when I was playing it, though it slept my mind how often I actually used it. The one time that I did use it on, was to send back my Emrakul back into the library. But it is very true after a combination of duress and bombardment of Cabal Therapies, opponent usually has nothing relevant anymore. I'll definitely take it out, however, the very first thing that pops in my head to stick in is another Crippling Fatigue. While the card looks horrible, it's actually really good on making sure I don't "fizzle" half way through. Chaining into another gamekeeper with no way to kill it.


For that matter why not just run a split of 3-2 split of Thoughtseize-Duress over 4-1 Duress-Crime? Being able to rip creatures from your opponents hand seems rather valuable seeing as you can't run too many of your own to absorb some damage.
The Duress is actually just my place holder for the thoughseize. I know the card is really good, however I am limited to how much I can spend. So I'll have to wait a while before I can spend a bulk on things again.


There are a few times when I actually failed to chain properly. Having a Gamekeeper on the field but nothing else to do. Should I add some cards that I could play from my grave when I am in that situation? Like maybe Roar of the Wurm as an alternate win-con after a previous deed? Though that' probably orking the back backwards, but some people I know always prefers an alternate win con. Or should I just focus those slots I would have normally spent on them, and just devote more on making sure I do not fizzle/fail to therapy chain?

Thank you.