Preferred creature to cheat into play.

[Zappa]

Between the 3 creatures such as:

Iona, Shield of Emeria
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Progenitus

For decks that relies on controlling the board, and then cheating one of those creatures into play, via Polymorph, Gamekeeper, Proteus Staff, and so on. Relying on one of those creatures, as your one and only means to victory. Which of the 3 creatures have a bigger impact, and be a better choice for such a game plan?

[clavio]

I would say emrakul and progenitus are going to be better than Iona. If your opponent is playing more than one color Iona doesn't totally stop them.

Progenitus can be stopped by moat but Emrakul can be stopped by Karkas. Thats really the only difference I see as swinging for ten and swinging for fifteen will rarely make a difference. If you can somehow swing before giving your opponent a turn than obviously Emrakul is going to be better because blowing up your opponents lands will stop things like wrath of god.

[Ch@os]

Phyrexian Dreadnought?

[Nihil Credo]

On threat quality, Emrakul. Not only is there a chance that your opponent is already at 15 between self-inflicted life loss and your manlands, but Annihilator 6 will in several cases be just as good as a victory. Proteus Staff, or a spare Polymorph, also has a decent chance of getting rid of flying chumps.

On the resilience front, Progenitus wins since Moat is far less common and far more easily answered than Karakas. But even as Reanimator is making Karakas more and more popular, it's still not going to be as common as an opposing army that can race the Hydra but can't race the Eldrazi. I would only consider Progenitus if your deck is built, or more likely misbuilt, so that it completely scoops to a Karakas (or gets forced to rely on decking, which is almost as bad).

[Dilettante]

Well, consider the shell you'd have to run them in. That'll be the largest determinant of which is really best... if the shell holds up well in the meta. It doesn't matter how effective a card is on the board if it never hits play.

Iona, Shield of Emeria:
-Can be snuck in by Reanimate, Exhume, and other similar effects
-4 turn clock after she hits play
-Most methods to be put into play without building the deck completely around it
-Can shut down particular colors, but color selection can stop 'sacrifice' effects of most decks
-Likely better on the board vs. Pox, combo

Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
-Needs to be snuck into play via a card such as Shelldock Isle, Loyal Retainers, or Proteus Staff, most restrictive of the three in terms of deck design requirements, possibly the only card making it easier to sneak him in than the others being Cryptic Gateway
-3 turn clock after he hits play
-Swing actually affects the board directly while Iona does so passively
-Likely most devastating target of the 3 for a Goryo's Vengeance or Sneak Attack
-Likely better on the board vs. Zoo, Goblins, Merfolk, Aggro Loam (though Karakas can suck)

Progenitus
-Needs to be snuck into play via a card such as Shelldock Isle, Loyal Retainers, or Proteus Staff, but compared to Emrakul, can also be put into play via Natural Order which has lower deck building requirements
-3 turn clock after he hits play
-No Flying
-Not likely better on the board as a swing in particular against certain decks archtypes compared to the others, due to lack of active or passive disruption, but has random immunities that come into play.

Also, an idiot question on my side: What is the command to link to deckbox? ? "cards" ~NC

[mchainmail]

Lightning Helix also interacts poorly with Progenitus (4 turn clock over 3 turns if it puts them over 20)

[jrsthethird]

Why does flying matter when you have protection from everything? So he can block your opponent's Emrakul? He won't survive the annihilator.

Emrakul can also be reanimated via Loyal Retainers, making him good in a Survival shell.

[CranialX]

Please correct me if i am wrong. Emrajul has : When Emrakul is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library.

and Progenitus has If Progenitus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Progenitus and shuffle it into its owner's library instead.

You cant reanimate it. I dont think loyal retainer will also work.Sacrifice Loyal Retainers: Return target legendary creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.

Emrakul and Progenitus is not going to hit the graveyard if i am correct. loyal retainers and reanimate effects wont work as well .

[Phoenix Ignition]

You need Loyal Retainers in play before you can put Emrakul in the graveyard. If you then manage to put Emrakul into the graveyard, you can sacrifice Loyal Retainers in response to the "Whenever Emrakul is put into the graveyard" trigger, and put him into play. Unlike the Iona plan, you have to have Retainers out first (so it costs more to do it on the same turn if you choose to do it through survival), which makes it a little worse, but either way it should win you the game.

[Zappa]

On threat quality, Emrakul. Not only is there a chance that your opponent is already at 15 between self-inflicted life loss and your manlands, but Annihilator 6 will in several cases be just as good as a victory. Proteus Staff, or a spare Polymorph, also has a decent chance of getting rid of flying chumps.

On the resilience front, Progenitus wins since Moat is far less common and far more easily answered than Karakas. But even as Reanimator is making Karakas more and more popular, it's still not going to be as common as an opposing army that can race the Hydra but can't race the Eldrazi. I would only consider Progenitus if your deck is built, or more likely misbuilt, so that it completely scoops to a Karakas (or gets forced to rely on decking, which is almost as bad).

When I played Emrakul on the last tournament I went to, The opponent has in deed, just as you described actully lost quite a bit of life, but not really enough to 1 hit with him. I've faced against some decks that has Vampire Nighthawk where the death touch matters, but the sacrificing permanents first, hurts him big time.

Overall I was really concerned about seeing a Karakas when I was playing, but seems like the decks that runs it, just runs it as a singleton. I was mainly trying to weight emrakul's threat density to Progenitus. However, Progenitus definitely wins big time in resiliency, as permanents with any relevant ability affects the 15/15. However, one swing with the 15/15 is usually enough to make the opponent's scoop, and much harder to race as opposed to the hydra.

Perhaps I'll sideboard them depending on the match up.


Well, consider the shell you'd have to run them in. That'll be the largest determinant of which is really best... if the shell holds up well in the meta. It doesn't matter how effective a card is on the board if it never hits play.

Also, an idiot question on my side: What is the command to link to deckbox? ? "cards" ~NC

Hm, true, the shell I am running holds up really well in the meta at the moment. Except for my horrendous ANT match up, however with some tweaks I can probably ix those matches. Regarding what your asking, are you refering to the auto carding? It's actually...

*take off the dashes (-)
[-cards]space[/cards-]


Why does flying matter when you have protection from everything?
It's just there's usually so few flyers to be seen that people run. Progenitus is pretty much safe and most resilient, but opponent can try to race you as well. Where is racing something with an annihilator 6 is very difficult.


Thanks for the insight everyone.

[Dilettante]

Why does flying matter when you have protection from everything? So he can block your opponent's Emrakul? He won't survive the annihilator.

It's the little things:
Moat
Island Sanctuary

[Jak]

It's the little things:
Moat
Island Sanctuary

But it has Whirlwind protection!

[kurterickson]

It basically all really depends on what your opponent is playing.

If your opponent is playing a mono color deck, then Iona is a fairly good choice. It has flying, is a 7/7, and can shut your opponent out of most of their deck.

If they have artifact removal (Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone) then you might want something with Haste (Akroma, Angel of Wrath, Hellkite Overlord) or something with Indestructible (Darksteel Colossus, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre) are nice optiions.

If your opponent is playing spot removal, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and Progenitus are usually the best choices.

Tidespout Tyrant would be a good choice for a control deck for the amounts of cards a control deck can play.

Now I know the thread is suppose to be about only the 3 creatures mentioned in the first post, but the way I see it, there are more options than just those for best choice.

[dahcmai]

I Shallow Graved a Zephyr Falcon once. Because I could...

[MMogg]

I Shallow Graved a Zephyr Falcon once. Because I could...

Is that the Magic equivalent of "I once shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"?

[Dilettante]

Is that the Magic equivalent of "I once shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"?

That would be the guy I played MTG with in college who used Donate + Sorrow's Path in his Keeper deck as a win condition.

[Ebinsugewa]

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGUNH/cheatyface.jpg.

[Meekrab]

That would be the guy I played MTG with in college who used Donate + Sorrow's Path in his Keeper deck as a win condition.
Presumably with Icy Manipulator? And a sick sense of humor?

[Cavius The Great]

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGUNH/cheatyface.jpg.

LOL. That's funny dude.

[Nessaja]

Want to add to the discussion that Emrakul can be dealt with by Oblivion Ring (/Journey to nowhere).