[Deck] Boros Landfall 2K10

[troopatroop]

Hi all, So I've been testing a number of decks for the past couple of weeks. I'm about to sell off a large portion of my collection, while keeping two decks to play with forever. This is the deck that I've settled on playing for a long time. I wanted something that would fit my playstyle. Turning creatures sideways, while burning the creatures in the way, has always been my favorite. The deck is also really powerful.

Boros Landfall

-16 Creatures-
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Goblin Guide
4 Plated Geopede
4 Kiln Fiend

-22 Spells-
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Rift Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
3 Reckless Charge
2 Fireblast

-22 Lands-
4 Wasteland
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Plateau
1 Mountain
1 Plains

As you can see, it's very straightforward, and very focussed. I'll give some basic card analysis.

THE CREATURES

4xSteppe Lynx : Steppe Lynx is the bread and butter of the landfall deck. He attacks as a 4/5 when you play a Fetchland for the turn. That is the single largest power and toughness for 1 mana in magic, and provides a very quick clock. The best turn 1 play this deck can produce. Amazing in conjunction with Reckless Charge, but we'll get to that.

4xGoblin Guide: 2/2 Haste for R is quite good. I try to cast him turns 2 and 3 to attack with other creatures, so he can sneak in some damage, and you can get extra value out of that Haste. If he swings and makes contact twice, he has done his job. He is a fine turn 1 play, but mediocre against blue opponents on the draw. A simple Brainstorm in response to his attack gives them an extra card, which can be painful. Still a powerful creature, and a welcome inclusion to the deck.

4xPlated Geopede: 5/5 First Strike for 2 mana is very good. This often leaves Tarmogoyf unable to block, which is a big deal. This is basically the Tarmogoyf of the Red Deck, and I have been very satisfied with his inclusion. Even attacking as a 3/3 First Strike, Often after Wasteland, is very powerful. Paired with Instant speed burn spells, this guy can kill just about everything and live to talk about it.

4xKiln Fiend: This creature is bonkers. First of all, my opponents usually see that I'm playing a Landfall variant, and throw target removal at my Lynxes and Geopedes. That leaves the ground open for Kiln Fiend, and that's not good. He has an effect similar to Warren Instigator in Goblins, in that your opponent cannot attack you and leave himself open for a counterswing. And even if he does leave someone back to block, you have a plethora of burn spells to char the blockers that would trade. Two swings unblocked is often GG. I love this creature for the deck!

BURN SPELLS

4xLightning Bolt: next!

4xChain Lightning: 4, mostly because of Kiln Fiend.

3xRift Bolt: This slot used to be Path to Exile, but I hated it's conflict with Wasteland. Can dodge Counter-Top, and set up really big turns with your Kiln Fiends. I only play 3.

3xSearing Blaze: This card is SO GOOD! 2 for 1 at 2 mana is exactly what this deck wants. While it's an instant, it's also a fine play at Sorcery speed. I only have room for 3, and I think that's a good number. It's dead in a few matchups, but stellar in most.

3xLightning Helix: Shouldn't need explanation.

2xFireblast: Always cast for 0 mana, Compliments Kiln Fiend so so well. Only room for 2, because you usually don't need one, but they're always a welcome draw when they show up. The perfect finisher.

RECKLESS CHARGE

3xReckless Charge: I give this card it's own section, because it isn't a burn spell, and it deserves it. It alone does so much for the deck. When I first discovered it's interaction with Steppe Lynx, I felt that I'd finally stumbled upon an interaction in Magic that was my own, and very powerful. The "trick" is to cast Steppe Lynx before you play a land for the turn. Then you play that land, which triggers Landfall, and cast Reckless Charge. This way, you benefit from the landfall for that turn, where you would never have been able to normally, due to summoning sickness. When the land you play after Steppe Lynx is a Fetchland, it attacks as a 7/5 Haste. Doing this turn 2 gives you maximum value. This trick can also be done turn 3 with a Plated Geopede in the same way. Geopede attacks as an 8/5 First strike, right out of nowhere. Kiln Fiend also comes in for 7 out of nowhere.

To be fair, spot removal is a bitch. STP or PTE in response leaves you down a card. Regardless, the value you generate with this card in many matchups is unlike anything else. Say you draw more than one Steppe Lynx or Plated Geopede. Without Reckless Charge, they become clunky. Landfall is a mechanic that requires you to get as much value out of your lands as you can. Reckless Charge allows multiple creatures to benefit from early land drops in a way they never would otherwise. This is an extremely important principle for this deck.

There are precautions you can take when playing this card. Obviously, letting your opponent tap out before you "go for it" is a good idea. Baiting early creatures for spot removal is a good idea. In short, play smart, and Reckless Charge will pay off for you, I promise.

MANABASE

4xWasteland. I knew I wanted to play a deck with Wasteland, and it's very good here. Steppe Lynx and Plated Geopede benefitting while you also set your opponent back is just... Lethal. It causes your opponent to stumble, can get them off White mana for removal, and just generally win you games you had no business of winning. Awesomesauce, basically.

4xPlateau. Mandatory. Having a white source to cast turn 1 Lynx is VERY important. You want to save those Fetchlands for later.

4xArid Mesa. Mandatory

8xRed Fetches. Could be any assortment of Bloodstained Mire, Wooded Foothills, or Scalding Tarn

1x Mountain + 1x Plains. Basics can be important :-P

CONCLUSION

So what you have, is 16 efficient creatures, 22 of the absolute best burn spells, and 22 Lands. There are 12 Fetchlands and 4 Wasteland to be used in conjunction with the Landfall creatures. The mana curve looks like this.

1cc / 22 (if you're counting Rift Bolt, which I do)
2cc / 14
3cc / 0
4cc / 0
5cc/ 0
6cc/ 2 (fireblast, but really 0cc)

That's brutally efficient. The deck goes very fast, with big attack swings. Some SB options are...

Seal of Cleansing
Sulfuric Vortex
Silence
Orim's Chant
Faerie Macabre
Tormod's Crypt
Vexing Shusher
Path to Exile

...and probably many others. I'll provide matchup analysis when I have more time. Tell me what you think!

[alderon666]

I would probably add 4 Path to Exile to get rid of Goyfs and add the extended combo of Ghost Quarters and Flagstones. If you're playing 8 landfall guys it's probably much better than the Wastelands. Even playing the second Flagstones nets you 3 landfall triggers.

[troopatroop]

That doesn't sound better to me at all. Ghost Quarter can never manascrew my opponent. You want me to blow up my own lands just for it to act as a fetchland? That puts me a Land down, and for what? Some more damage sometimes? That's a very weak strategy, just think about it. There's no room for Flagstones in the deck, and Ghost Quarter seems bad. Much worse than Wasteland.

I already mentioned how Path messes with Wasteland. Tarmogoyf isn't a huge problem for this deck.

Let me just say, that this isn't just a Landfall deck. Going into deckbuilding with that premise is wrong, because you're justifying the inclusion of mediocre cards, simply because they have synergy with that mechanic. You're not always going to draw your Landfall creatures, and the deck runs fine without them now. Playing Ghost Quarter and Flagstones makes the deck highly dependant on landfall, and it doesn't need to be. This is not extended.

Any thoughts? Even if it's just a "looks good!", I'd really appreciate it.

[AlterEgo]

looks good!

No really, it does to me.
And I agree with you in that a) Tarmogoyf shouldn't be that much of a problem as your dudes are bigger and faster and b) Ghost Quarter IS the wrong inclusion.
Almost every deck out there plays at least a set of basic lands in their colors, so Quarter needs Crucible of Worlds to become somewhat effective - and this certainly is too clunky for the deck.

The only thing I'd be careful about is the number of Wastelands. Sure, it fits the deck, but are SIX color-producing lands really enough? I think you will have to fetch first turn more often than having a plains (or mountain) in your opening 7.

[wolfmanisu]

Do you run into issues with your fetch lands? You have 12 fetches, but only 6 targets. Is your curve so low that it doesn't really matter? Also, what is Wasteland really providing? It won't help you in your first few turns and you should be winning soon afterwards. Maybe changing -4 Wastland +3 Mountain +1 Fireblast might make the early turns more consistent.

EDIT: Seems I'm agreeing with AlterEgo.

[eq.firemind]

It looks great! =)

I think Helix can be replaced 'cause the deck is faster than most other decks in format, so that 3 life is almost nothing. And just 3 damage for 2 mana is not exiting at all...
If you cut Helix, the deck needs only 1 white mana, so you don't need basic Plains (you want to have :r::r: on turn 2 anyway to be able to cast Searing Blaze on that pesky Nacatl).

I'm working on close concept and I must say that Crop Rotation[/cards is very nice here 'cause it's 2 additional Landfall triggers, can find you Wasteland and pumps Fiend for :0: mana. And IMHO you will almost never notice the lack of basics if you just go -2 basics, +2 [cards]Taiga.

When you add green Ancient Grudge is great SP choice 'cause it kills Chalice on 1, does the job twice and pump Kiln Fiend twice.

Also, Manamorphose is another possible "pump Fiend for :0:" and also digs your landfall triggers.

Here is my current list:

CRAPFALL

LANDS (21)
4 Plateau
2 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland

BEATERS (16)
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Goblin Guide
4 Plated Geopede

BURN (13)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
3 Searing Blaze

OTHER (10)
3 Reckless Charge
4 Manamorphose
3 Crop Rotation

[Osmin]

And where Knight of Reliquary is? With such number of fetches + wastelands.

[Rizso]

Think of a boros landfall deck as well. But i rather use the Flagstone of Trokair, Ghost Quarter, Zektar Shrine Expedition, Second Sunrise and probly some Grim Lavamancer and Jötun Grunt then Kiln Fiend + Reckless charge.

[troopatroop]

For the people asking about the 12 Fetchlands and only 6 Targets, It is never a problem. This isn't a lategame deck. You're trying to win the game turns 3-4, and you only need to accumulate 2-4 lands. Your fear of running out of lands to fetch is extremely unlikely. 4 Plateau,2 basics is fine. Also, fetching first turn for a Plateau to play Steppe Lynx is fine. You'll usually have more than 1 fetch in the first 10 cards you see, and attacking for 2 is okay.

People saying Wasteland doesn't help you in the first couple turns is funny! Wasteland helps YOU by crippling THEM! It sets them back a FULL TURN and allows you to get an extra attack in! Keeping them off mana to cast game winning spells absolutely helps. Not everything is about the Goldfish, and Wasteland also triggers landfall.

I don't like Crop Rotation. Yes it can do some cool things, but there is DANGER in cool things. It's a win-more card in my opinion, and card disadvatange. It requires a Landfall guy to be good, and sucks on its own. Say it's turn 10, you're out of cards and you need to draw a burn spell or a creature to have a chance. You draw Crop Rotation. If a card isn't good almost all of the time, I don't want to play it. You shouldn't either.

I'm not playing Knight because I'm not playing green. It also doesn't do anything until turn 4, and that isn't this decks focus.

Keep them coming!

[Resist_Temptation]

Let me just say, that this isn't just a Landfall deck. Going into deckbuilding with that premise is wrong, because you're justifying the inclusion of mediocre cards, simply because they have synergy with that mechanic. You're not always going to draw your Landfall creatures, and the deck runs fine without them now. Playing Ghost Quarter and Flagstones makes the deck highly dependant on landfall, and it doesn't need to be. This is not extended.

First off because you seem very hostile towards people questioning your manabase, I am only trying to give you suggestions and to clarify a few things I am not quite clear on. It seems that this deck is a fast beater as long as you have a steady income of fetches. By saying this deck can function without a reliance on landfall seems sketchy to me(mainly because you have 8/16 of your permanent threats don't do anything with a land light hand.) Granted you could get a nuts draw of kiln fiend and a ton of instants/sorceries...

I am not sold on searing blaze. It looks good, but I am just thinking that you might want to at least add the fourth rift bolt in place of one. 3cc is much safer to try and resolve. 'Specially when you only have to pay 1cc for it.

Have you looked into including: Benevolent Bodyguard, Aven Mindscenser, Spark Elemental, Hellspark Elemental, Ball Lightning, Zektar Shrine thing? Some of the choices are not the fastest, but they throw more damage onto the board.

In this list I would think that a few more lands would be good. Like one more basic in place of a fetch. 12:6 ratio fetches to lands is kinda risky. You can say there is no late game, but what happens when the deck gets to turn 7? Do you just scoop and move on to the next game? I am also not sold on reckless charge. I think there are too many spot removals and you open yourself up for 2:1. Of course this is not to say it cannot work for you. Also agree that lightning helix isn't that good if the deck runs so fast.

I like this deck as it is a nice change from all the cookie cutter lists I see, and I have always been a fan of boros. I think that you are also writing off flagstones a bit too soon. It is a good card that doesn't make the deck heavily relient on landfall. Even without a landfall trigger on the board it is still a deck thinner (and I do realize that you run 12 fetches. Just saying that if you change the mana base it might work)

If you have done any testing with this how is your matchups with some of the DTB lists?

And again these are only other options to consider.

[rufus]

I don't like Crop Rotation. Yes it can do some cool things, but there is DANGER in cool things. It's a win-more card in my opinion, and card disadvatange. It requires a Landfall guy to be good, and sucks on its own. Say it's turn 10, you're out of cards and you need to draw a burn spell or a creature to have a chance. You draw Crop Rotation. If a card isn't good almost all of the time, I don't want to play it.

So put one of Barbarian Ring,Teetering Peaks, or a mandland in the deck.

[troopatroop]

First off because you seem very hostile towards people questioning your manabase, I am only trying to give you suggestions and to clarify a few things I am not quite clear on. It seems that this deck is a fast beater as long as you have a steady income of fetches. By saying this deck can function without a reliance on landfall seems sketchy to me(mainly because you have 8/16 of your permanent threats don't do anything with a land light hand.) Granted you could get a nuts draw of kiln fiend and a ton of instants/sorceries...

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, let me clarify. I'm running 22 lands because I want to hit landfall alot. If they were all colored sources, I could probably get away with 18-20 lands on the manacurve alone. I choose to run the 2-4 extra lands in order to consistently hit landfall a bit more. Of course having a steady stream of lands is important. What I was saying, is this deck doesn't need its Landfall creatures to win.


I am not sold on searing blaze. It looks good, but I am just thinking that you might want to at least add the fourth rift bolt in place of one. 3cc is much safer to try and resolve. 'Specially when you only have to pay 1cc for it.
I think Searing Blaze does more than Rift Bolt. Think of the Merfolk, Goblins, and Zoo matchup. Any matchup where you're playing against creatures. Searing Blaze often does 3 more damage, for 0 cards and 1 more mana. That's important.


Have you looked into including: Benevolent Bodyguard, Aven Mindscenser, Spark Elemental, Hellspark Elemental, Ball Lightning, Zektar Shrine thing? Some of the choices are not the fastest, but they throw more damage onto the board.

I'll go through these one at a time.

Benevolent Bodyguard

The first problem is he's a 1/1 for W. Terrible Topdeck. Trying to be reactive isn't good, I wouldn't maindeck it.

Aven Mindcensor

Maindecked? its 3cc counter fetchlands...sometimes? Terrible card, made me LOL

Spark Elemental

Another lightning bolt that can be blocked? This card is worse than Burst Lightning.

Hellspark Elemental

He's a fine creature, but how is better than other cards I'm playing? He's not that powerful.

Ball Lightning

Vulnerable to alot of things, and huge tempo loss if he fails. Decent card.

Zektar Shrine Expedition

Pretty bad. If you play this turn 2, it takes 3 more lands before it does anything. Then when it does, your opponent had all the time in the world to come up with an answer, and theres many out there. 2cc Creatures are much better!


And what we have is a series of medicre suggestions. None of those cards are better than the ones I'm playing. Find me something to take out for these cards, a simple + and -, and I'll give it some real thought. None of those cards are great, the best being Ball Lightning.

In this list I would think that a few more lands would be good. Like one more basic in place of a fetch. 12:6 ratio fetches to lands is kinda risky.
I stand BY what I said, and I question you to do the MATH and tell me why it matters. You'd need to draw 3-4 normal lands out of 6!in one game to even see the problem at all, then having only 3-2 Fetchland activations you could use after that. That's very unlikely, and hardly inconvenient at all. I've yet to play a game where I ran out of lands to fetch. Also, I would never cut a fetchland for a basic, it doesn't make any sense. You want as many Fetches as you can get!


You can say there is no late game, but what happens when the deck gets to turn 7? Do you just scoop and move on to the next game?
This is a rather snide comment. Of course not, what I said is that the deck rarely gets there. Burn spells usually finish the game once it goes past 7 turns, but you have to ask yourself why you were that slow to begin with. The deck is actually fine past turn 7, because everything in the deck is a Spell or a Threat. Reckless Charge in the graveyard is also good lategame, which leads me to...


I am also not sold on reckless charge. I think there are too many spot removals and you open yourself up for 2:1.
I'd be willing to wager you haven't even tried it, and wouldn't know how to play it right even if you did. I already referenced how removal becomes a 2 for 1. What you fail to see, if that when they don't HAVE the STP, which should be around half the time, Reckless Charge can turn into a 7-8dmg 1cc spell. Reckless Charge is BONKERS with Landfall creatures, and not every deck will have spot removal for everything! You also have so many big threats, it's easy for them to make a mistake.

The point is, these matchups usually hinge on their STP's and such. They either have it or they don't. Read them.


Also agree that lightning helix isn't that good if the deck runs so fast.
This is just silly. Why give up the 3 life that Helix gives us? It's still a burn spell, and the 3 life is often wonderful in real games of magic. Just because the deck is quick doesn't mean we should stop playing the most powerful spells! Gaining life is always pretty good. It gives you more time to draw burn spells and finish the game.


I like this deck as it is a nice change from all the cookie cutter lists I see, and I have always been a fan of boros. I think that you are also writing off flagstones a bit too soon. It is a good card that doesn't make the deck heavily relient on landfall. Even without a landfall trigger on the board it is still a deck thinner (and I do realize that you run 12 fetches. Just saying that if you change the mana base it might work)

If you have done any testing with this how is your matchups with some of the DTB lists?

And again these are only other options to consider.

What does Flagstones do exactly? Besides being a plains that I can't fetch. Think before you speak, it does nothing! it works with Ghost Quarter to trigger landfall 3 times, but does nothing without it. Playing this combination of cards DOES make you reliant on landfall CREATURES.

Which is what I said all along. All of your suggestions are... just weak. I appreciate the effort, but you're way offbase.

Edit:
So put one of Barbarian Ring,Teetering Peaks, or a mandland in the deck.

Sometimes those cards aren't going to get it done. The point is, I cant play green without weakening the manabase, and I'd rather not do that.

[brianw712]

Have you thought of Berserk? It has good synergy with Kiln Fiend, and, well, any landfall creature that has been double landfalled. Maybe in the Reckless Charge spot, trample can be very relevant. The downside is that it isn't very good on Goblin Guide. Another thing you could try is Rancor. Again, trample can be relevant. Sure, you have to have three colors, but if Zoo can do it, so can you.

[sclabman]

What does Flagstones do exactly? Besides being a plains that I can't fetch. Think before you speak, it does nothing! it works with Ghost Quarter to trigger landfall 3 times, but does nothing without it. Playing this combination of cards DOES make you reliant on landfall CREATURES.


I'd say running the landfall creatures at all makes you reliant upon them, It's not necessarily the lands that do this. Do what you want but there's no need for condescension here.

[troopatroop]

I'd say running the landfall creatures at all makes you reliant upon them, It's not necessarily the lands that do this. Do what you want but there's no need for condescension here.

Okay, but everything in degrees. I think they work just fine with only Fetchlands. Some people prefer Crop Rotation in addition, I do not. Running strategies like Ghost Quarter -> Flagstones or Crop Rotation makes you much more reliant on those Creatures.

[Resist_Temptation]

I am just going to take this time and ask why you are asking for help? I gave suggestions that were relevant. I agree aven mindscensor is bad in here, but I take every chance I can to sell that card. Ball lightning is a tempo loss, but yet running a creature buff is permitted?

And when you give me a suggestion like "give it some real thought before suggesting," you should take that into your own posts. How about you take a night off and calm yourself because you are full of hostility, and out of the cards I suggested they are all efficient DMG:CC. Yeah they can block spark elemental, but they can also block your creature you throw a reckless charge on. If you are going to play that game you are going to lose. And zektar shrine.....with all the fetches you run can be down on turn 2 and active by turn 4.

The main reason behing me not liking searing blaze is that it is a 2cc. counterbalance happens to be very prevalent in the format. and if you are going to try and tell me they will be dead before they get it online....you are living on a prayer.

Your arguments are not making sense. Obviously you think this deck is perfect so you might as well just delete the thread.

[Soldar]

I completely agree with the lack of Ghost Quarter in the deck, that card is awful in decks that aren't Lands (and not even amazing in Lands).

However, what about Shard Volley/Flagstones? It lets you surprise your opponents with a landfall, turns your extra Wastelands into a second landfall for yourself, and you can get a 3rd landfall if you play a second one onto the first one. It does make RR a little harder for Searing Blaze though.

[eq.firemind]

Done some testing with my Crapfall list yesterday.
General conclusions:
1) As expected, Searing Blaze is MVP. 3 is a good MD number and I think about 4th in SB. Think about it as 6 damage for 2 mana.
2) People, you shouldn't dought in Reckless Charge! That card is godly.
3) Crop Rotation gave me 3-8 damage for :0: mana and was involved in many turn 3 kills and even one turn 2 kill. Tutoring for Wasteland is good too. Sure, it's bad if you have no creatures, but, like Reckless Charge, it creates huge amounts of damage for very low cost (by the way, it works very well with Charge). And it works with 12 creatures (Landfall and Fiend), so I'll keep 3 in MD for now.
4) The whole Manamorphose thing needs more tests, but it seems to be at least not bad. And it slightly improves your chances to see cards you sided in.
5) Since the deck runs Kiln Fiend and the dude is so good, the SB must contain Instants and Sorceries to not screw Fiend in G2&3. Ancient Grudge is Good if you run green, Smash to Smithereens is nice if you don't. Coffin Purge could be perfect, but it's black. I'm testing Krosan Reclamation now and it's not bad.
Noticable games:
Won against Reanimator. Bash through T2 Leviathan in G1 (Fiend rocks), killed Empyrial Archangel 2 times in G2(first reanimation on turn 2) (Geopede+fetch+Charge) and then stopped the third reanimation with Krosan Reclamation
Won against Dragon Stompy. He had turn 1 Chalice all 3 games. G1 was all about Geopede and Landfall and Searing Blaze. G2 he smacks me with Jitte. G3 I drew Ancient Grudge and burned him after smashing Chalice.

[zabuza]

I should include at least a couple of Undiscovered paradise so you´ll have landfall all the time.

[troopatroop]

I am just going to take this time and ask why you are asking for help? I gave suggestions that were relevant. I agree aven mindscensor is bad in here, but I take every chance I can to sell that card. Ball lightning is a tempo loss, but yet running a creature buff is permitted?

I ask for help, because I'm not the best player/deckbuilder on these boards. If I'm gonna play this deck full time, I want it to be perfect.

Reckless Charge isn't just creature buff, it's like a reverse Time Walk. It gives your creatures Haste, so they attack a full turn earlier than they normally would. That makes Reckless Charge worth 3dmg + the Power of the creature attacking. That is often 4-5 more damage than normal 1cc burn spells, and why it can be justified. Yes 2 for 1's are a loss of tempo, but unanswered it's a huge tempo gain. Reckless Charge is NOT Brute Force


And when you give me a suggestion like "give it some real thought before suggesting," you should take that into your own posts. How about you take a night off and calm yourself because you are full of hostility, and out of the cards I suggested they are all efficient DMG:CC.
I apologize if I came off as hostile, but I'm a very critical thinker. I'm not attacking you, but your suggestions. I feel that given the facts, the cards you suggested are not better than the cards currently in the deck. I understand that it's hard to find cards better than Rift Bolt or Lightning Helix, and considering those are probably the weakest slots in the deck, maybe I'm asking too much. Still, that doesn't make Benevolent Bodyguard or Aven Mindcensor efficient DMG:CC. Just because I'm hostile doesn't make me wrong, welcome to the internet.


Yeah they can block spark elemental, but they can also block your creature you throw a reckless charge on.
Let me go further in depth. Spark Elemental is a weak card imo, and many people play him in their burn decks. First of all, he's a creature that will only live for one attack step. If he attacks and gets through, which is often going to happen, he's going to do 3 damage. Now, that isn't always what's going to happen. Theres a chance that he will be blocked. He trades with anything 1-3 toughness, and your opponent blocking and trading is probably the best thing that can happen. That way you're trading 1for1 on cards, and Spark Elemental was going to die anyways. Unfortunately, Anything with an ass of 4 or < stops you from being able to use Spark Elemental. Also consider, is it smart to Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning your opponents life total turn 1? Not really. You go down a card, and have no effect on the board. Spark Elemental is basically an obsolete burn spell. Late in the game, I'd much rather be playing Burn in his place, since that can always be thrown at my opponent. Spark Elemental is conditional, and being a creature isn't good in his case. He also doesn't pump Kiln Fiend.

I simply mentioned that he can be "blocked", because in short, it's why he's not good enough. You draw a comparison to Reckless Charge that doesn't make sense. If they have a creature to block, you're gonna see that. I'm not gonna run my creature into an infavorable block, especially if I have some burn to clear the way. If they're blocking and my creature lives (Steppe Lynx, Geopede), I'm fine with that.


And zektar shrine.....with all the fetches you run can be down on turn 2 and active by turn 4.

That still doesn't make it a good turn 2 play! Creatures are so much better, also I'd much rather play Searing Blaze turn 2. Zektar Shrine isn't good enough for Legacy, and I stand by that. It has no effect on the board, and your opponent sees is coming from a mile away. It's also a terrible topdeck, you've got to look at a card from all angles.


The main reason behing me not liking searing blaze is that it is a 2cc. counterbalance happens to be very prevalent in the format. and if you are going to try and tell me they will be dead before they get it online....you are living on a prayer.

Obviously this deck doesn't have a good Counterbalance matchup. Playing a different card in the Searing Blaze slot isn't going to change that. The main weapons we have are SB cards. Seal of Cleansing, Duergar Hedgemage, and Cleanfall. Your only hope against them is to resolve creatures early, Wasteland important lands, and play as tight as you can. Searing Blaze is very good against many decks, sometimes even good against Counter-Top (Hierarch,Pridemage,Trygon).


Your arguments are not making sense. Obviously you think this deck is perfect so you might as well just delete the thread.

I think my comments make alot of sense, and I put serious thought into them. Your arguments are actually pretty baseless, and quite frustrating to respond to like this. If you can't refute what someone is saying with facts of your own, you're probably not in the right. I understand that this can be frustrating, but it's also frustrating trying to articulate to someone why they're wrong over the internet. Saying that I think my deck is perfect is incorrect. I'm aware that it could be better, which is why I'm posting it. I do stand by my card choices however, and reserve my right to compare them to the ones you suggested. You may not like the way I present things, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

[EssKay]

I have to agree with OP, the deck looks really tight and a lot of these suggestions just don't make any sense at all.

My only critique is that Goblin Guide and Wasteland are not very synergistic. Really I think you could drop the wastelands altogether since you aren't going for control and they aren't part of a larger disruption suite. If you aren't including them in your land count then you could put in the Paths to deal with troublesome blockers, or maybe even Simian Spirit Guide to add some speed.

Really though you'll just have to do some testing and see how many times Guide negates your wasteland, and how many times Wasteland would have been better as something else.

[troopatroop]

My only critique is that Goblin Guide and Wasteland are not very synergistic. Really I think you could drop the wastelands altogether since you aren't going for control and they aren't part of a larger disruption suite. If you aren't including them in your land count then you could put in the Paths to deal with troublesome blockers, or maybe even Simian Spirit Guide to add some speed.

Thanks, this I'll concede, I've noticed the issue. The thing is, I'd much rather keep Wasteland in the deck than Goblin Guide. I think Wasteland is the better Magic card, and I'm always unlucky with Guide flips. Any ideas of what could replace him? Weathered Wayfarer? Grim Lavamancer?

Simian Spirit Guide is also interesting. Enabling turn 1 Geopedes and Kiln Fiends is very good. I originally thought about using Chrome Mox, but the card disadvantage turned me off. Spirit Guide is a one shot thing, but it's often exactly what you need. I'll give it a shot.

[Dilettante]

Thanks, this I'll concede, I've noticed the issue. The thing is, I'd much rather keep Wasteland in the deck than Goblin Guide. I think Wasteland is the better Magic card, and I'm always unlucky with Guide flips. Any ideas of what could replace him? Weathered Wayfarer? Grim Lavamancer?

I'd rather keep the Guides in, cut some removal for 2-3 Figure of Destiny or Grim Lavamancer, the former giving you some ability to sit back with a critter that doesn't require as much commitment as Student of Warfare that also pulls your mana away from your removal and the latter useful for when your opponents start to arc larger than your removal (rather than sacrificing slots for Swords/Path). I'd go with 2-3 Lavamancer in addition to the creature base. Guide and Wasteland are anti-synergistic, but Wasteland is just too useful for ruining their first plan and making them play more cautiously in subsequent games while Guide... think of it this way... every fetchland they grab is still burn.

Siding Proclamation of Rebirth a bad idea against Firespout/Pyroclasm?

I'd also give Double Cleave a look. It's risky and isn't removal, but worth +4-8 damage for 2 mana in a lot of instances (18 total with Kiln Fiend + Reckless Charge + Double Cleave).

[EssKay]

Here's my list of possible replacements:

Keldon Marauders
Spark Elemental
Grim Lavamancer
Figure of Destiny


Marauders doesn't fit the 1-drop slot, but would be fairly bonkers with Reckless Charge. Other than that, each has benefits and drawbacks. Seriously test without the Wastelands though, I think you'll find they're a dead draw a lot more often than you would think, and without more disruption options, most decks will recover pretty quickly.

Also I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but you may want to consider something like -2 fetch, +2 mountain. In a control-heavy meta, Stifle could pose big problems for you if two out of every three of your lands is a viable target. You could power through it, but by that point they'll probably have better board position.

[Iare]

Decklist looks pretty good to me, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why plated geopede isnt Jotun Grunt. Grunt is 1. harder to burn 2. Races goyf 3. Eats opposing graveyards which helps against, Loam, Tombstalker, Grim lavamancer, Lands, igg, dredge and I'm sure lots of other random junk. 4. Actually blocks favorably if you can't give him haste. and 5. Has more synergy with the wastelands.

I don't really like goblin guide in the sea of decks with blue. I would replace them with 3 Figure of Destiny and 1 Rift bolt both of which serve to help the blue matchups.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

If you play Geopede turn two, you can expect it to stick around for a bit. The same claim cannot be made for Grunt.

[Iare]

If you play Geopede turn two, you can expect it to stick around for a bit. The same claim cannot be made for Grunt.

That isn't always true. Geopede dies to everything under the sun including red sweepers grim lavamancers lava dart and the such. Getting cards into the graveyard with so much burn and all the catnips running around isnt very difficult. I honestly believe grunt is the more powerfull card of the two and his utility does win games.

[Dilettante]

That isn't always true. Geopede dies to everything under the sun including red sweepers grim lavamancers lava dart and the such. Getting cards into the graveyard with so much burn and all the catnips running around isnt very difficult. I honestly believe grunt is the more powerfull card of the two and his utility does win games.

Grunt... is too situational of a card. When you want to play it turn 2, you might with a burn and a fetch... and get one swing out of it. For it to survive a subsequent swing with this deck, the next turn, you're tossing 4 cards, meaning on top of that burn and fetch, you have to fetch 2 more times and cast two more burn definitely in the next turn, and not necessarily a creature drop just to pay your upkeep, pigeonholing your strategy unless you're running against a deck that feeds him for you. So for Grunt to be worth it, you're relying on drawing 1/4 of your fetches in 9-10 cards. What makes Grunt much better than... Keldon Marauders, then, which is more potential 2 poke damage + 3 swing? This deck isn't threshold. And this also limits you to one Grunt in play when you can play Geopedes at abandon if you want to. I'd rather use the Geopede and play a bit more conservatively if I suspect the Spout or Pyroclasm.

[Oiolosse]

Without testing this deck and after reading your explanations and comments I will suggest why not StP? Does the life gain slow your clock just a turn or so? I would think that absolutely clearing the path for a lynx or such would be primo. Also, I don't like Goblin Guide. If Spark Elemental on T1 is akin to bolting on T1 then isn't Goblin Guide like shocking T1? Seems weak sauce to me. Grim Lavamancer may better fit this spot. I know he is more reactive but he finishes and you will have a full GY due to the amount of fetches and burn you run.

[Iare]

Grunt... is too situational of a card. When you want to play it turn 2, you might with a burn and a fetch... and get one swing out of it. For it to survive a subsequent swing with this deck, the next turn, you're tossing 4 cards, meaning on top of that burn and fetch, you have to fetch 2 more times and cast two more burn definitely in the next turn, and not necessarily a creature drop just to pay your upkeep, pigeonholing your strategy unless you're running against a deck that feeds him for you. So for Grunt to be worth it, you're relying on drawing 1/4 of your fetches in 9-10 cards. What makes Grunt much better than... Keldon Marauders, then, which is more potential 2 poke damage + 3 swing? This deck isn't threshold. And this also limits you to one Grunt in play when you can play Geopedes at abandon if you want to. I'd rather use the Geopede and play a bit more conservatively if I suspect the Spout or Pyroclasm.

I've had a boros deck together now for what seems like ages. So I maybe holding onto Jotun Grunt irrationally but honestly its been mvp in a whole lot of match ups over the years. You only need 12 cards between both you and your opponents graveyard for 3 swings and lets face it if the game goes past where hes swung 3 times and hasn't ended things aren't looking good for you. Grunt acts as disruption in quite a few match ups and shouldn't be so easily dismissed. Grunt will still be a 4/4 if a hymn takes your land drop or during land light hands. And, is almost indefinitely better in the mirror match (all aggro matches in fact) since he can block and kill just about anything that doesn't fly and isn't goyf the turn he comes into play giving the potential for card advantage and an overall larger life swing. (blocking prevents damage which last I checked is better than taking it on the face) Besides you can always play instant burn in response to his upkeep trigger if you need to get more cards in graveyard. Sorry If this isn't 100% coherent I'm really tired atm.

Now the ability to play multiples and have them stick around awhile is a valid point so it may be optimal to play 3 Grunts and 1 Geopede.

Off the topic of grunt: Those of you who have been playing a deck with 10-14 fetchlands do you ever find yourself having trouble with opposing aggro and decks playing burn. Even with Steppe Lynx making fetches into damage the life swing is only +1 (since you are taking one from the fetch you may otherwise not play without landfall dorks). Granted swinging with a 4/5 is awesome and all but is it enough to justify so many fatches. And, one last question have you ever found your landfall guys MIA or in your graveyard and losing to your own mana base?

[Hanni]

Searing Blaze... now that's some cool tech. I think 3's a little heavy though, since it's still dependant on making a land drop that turn to be good. I just tested 2 in my super fast sligh and was pleased. How's 3 been for you troop?

Oh, and why'd you lose the green splash? Wild Nacatl just not worth the weaker manabase? I really think that running 8 2cc creatures really hurts your speed (aggression), and dropping the Geopedes for Nacatl's would improve that. Has running too heavy in the 2cc creature slot been an issue for you?

I'd post my decklist as a food for thought but it doesn't really fit in here since it's 3c Sligh.

[troopatroop]

Just typed up a big reply, got it deleted :-/. In short, Wild Nacatl is the best card in Green, but I got tempted into running Pridemage and Goyf, which slowed the deck down alot. If you want to post your 3c list, that'd be cool. I worked on Naya Sligh for awhile, and the manabase is kindov a headache. You need alot of Fetches for Lynx, you need to be able to support White and Green for one drops, while having all Red lands to cast your burn spells. I don't really know. I like the 4 Plateau for easy turn 1 Steppe Lynxes and preservation of Sac Lands.

Searing Blaze is very nice. I don't know if 3 is right, or 2. Definitely not 4. I usually cast it Sorcery speed, so having landfall isn't a challenge.

I don't like Jotun Grunt that much. Maybe as a SB card, but he's unreliable, and kinda slow. You can't play him as a 2 drop and expect him to live. Plated Geopede and Kiln Fiend both attack for more damage, and I also don't feel like playing more than 8 2 drops. He doesn't last more than a couple turns, and I'd rather play something I know is gonna stick around. It's a fine card tho.

Plated Geopede has been really good. He makes Reckless Charge better, and is more often than not a 5/5 First Strike. I've grown pretty fond of this insect. My recent experiments have been -4 Wasteland +2 Fetchland +2 Mountain. I'm not sure if I like it better. I'm having trouble saying goodbye to Wasteland.

[Grollub]

I think Wastelands are needed in an aggresive landfall deck such as this, they both trigger the mechanic and keep your opponent and you in the gamestage where this deck's real strength is. A single splashed color definately seems better than two, in my opinion. In a version with Wasteland I'm not overly sold on Goblin Guide and would think Grim Lavamancer would be a better substitute as it feeds off your landfilled graveyard and clears the board of small creatures that are soaking up your beefy Lynx, Geopede and Killing Fiends - it also happens to be a much bigger threat against controlish decks.



Searing Blaze is very nice. I don't know if 3 is right, or 2. Definitely not 4. I usually cast it Sorcery speed, so having landfall isn't a challenge.

Really? I'm still loving it as a 4-of, granted that's in the goyf-sligh version. It's just so brutal in every match-up with creatures and I'd think the Geopede would make it even better?

I'm kinda irked about Reckless Charge, but if it works. It works, I suppose.

How has your testing been compared vs. the goyf-fiend sligh?

[troopatroop]

Thank you for reassuring me on the Wastelands. I think that's a big strength of the 2 color list, because it really CAN support Wasteland. I've begun testing -4 Goblin Guide, +3 Grim Lavamancer, + 1 Sac-Land. You can never have enough of those! At first I was hesitant to play him, because when it comes to the Goldfish he doesn't contribute. But in actual matchups, there's nothing like him. Recycling all those cards in the graveyard is pretty amazing. Now there's not one disynergy!

I think this and the Goyfsligh list have some very similar matchups. I'm not sure which deck is better. That deck abuses Kiln fiend a bit harder, but this deck is a hair faster, and abuses Reckless Charge. Tarmogoyf is great, but the thing is, we have Plated Geopede. Against everything but decks with burn spells, Plated Geopede is just as good. It's also pretty good against opposing Tarmogoyfs. All I'm saying, is this deck doesn't lose a whole lot by not playing Green. Although, I'd really like to SB Krosan Grip.

[Hanni]

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
2 [A] Plateau
2 [R] Taiga
2 [RAV] Mountain (2)

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
4 [ALA] Wild Nacatl
4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx

// Spells
4 [A] Lightning Bolt
3 [ZEN] Burst Lightning
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [TSP] Rift Bolt
2 [WWK] Searing Blaze
4 [DLM] Incinerate
4 [FD] Magma Jet
4 [VI] Fireblast

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [EX] Price of Progress
SB: 4 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip

Basically, it's modified to be as fast as possible.

[troopatroop]

Yeah, pretty similar to the list I was running. I don't know if Green is worth playing if all it brings you is Wild Nacatl. Steppe Lynx is at its very best turn 1. When you run only 2 intial white sources of mana, you're almost required to use a Fetchland to get Plateau. Over time you'll start to notice, that often leaves you with 0 and 1 fetches left far too often. I run 5 sources of white, so casting turn 1 Steppe Lynx without using a Fetchland is more common. I'm also not a fan of Magma Jet or Incinerate. Magma Jet just doesn't kill enough anymore, and I was never satisfied with it during my testing. Same thing with Incinerate. I don't know about Burst Lightning.

I think you would be wise to play some number of Kiln Fiend too, at least try it. He may not make the deck faster, but he also makes winning alot easier. Burn is like a 7 card combo deck. Kiln Fiend does alot for just 1 spell, making all your other spells more powerful in a sense. I think your deck is very strong though, and it looks really consistent with the 12 1 drops.

Boros Landfall

-15 Creatures-
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Plated Geopede
4 Kiln Fiend
3 Grim Lavamancer

-22 Spells-
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Rift Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
3 Reckless Charge
2 Fireblast

-23 Lands-
4 Wasteland
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Plateau
1 Taiga
1 Mountain
1 Plains

SB:
3 Krosan Grip (Countertop)
1 Duerger Hedge-Mage(Countertop, BantSur)
1 Cleanfall (Countertop, Enchantress?)
4 Orim's Chant (Storm)
1 Silence (Storm)
2 Vexing Shusher (Countertop)
3 Tormod's Crypt (Dredge, Reanimator)

Note the singleton Taiga main. It was sortov a Eureka moment. I had this extra slot after I cut the 4 Goblin Guides, because I knew I only wanted to play 3 Grim Lavamancer. I wanted to play another land, because there was only 18 "real" lands before Wasteland. I was thinking about playing another Sac-land, then thought about comments earlier saying I should play more than 6 permanent lands, and thought about a basic Mountain. But what's better than mountains? Taiga! Hellooo Krosan Grip! :P

I can't wait to play this in a tournament.

[Resist_Temptation]

Have you actually tested this against real people? because I decided I would at least try your list to make sure that it works better in real life. I proxied it up and played against some of the meta decks in this area. The only time I won, it was against my friends budget elf deck and I won because mono green doesn't have spot removal and plated geopede did very well there....sooo it loses to just about everything. I did not play the sideboard so unless the sideboard really helps you get those g2+g3 wins. with 15 creatures I would end up seeing maybe 2 a game, and they would not stick around for long, or they would be out sized by an opposing tarmogoyf. playing around daze for this deck is very counterproductive as a daze will force you to crack your fetch.. I don't wanna be condescending but if you have tested this, how skilled are your opponents/opponents decks.

[troopatroop]

Have you actually tested this against real people? because I decided I would at least try your list to make sure that it works better in real life. I proxied it up and played against some of the meta decks in this area. The only time I won, it was against my friends budget elf deck and I won because mono green doesn't have spot removal and plated geopede did very well there....sooo it loses to just about everything. I did not play the sideboard so unless the sideboard really helps you get those g2+g3 wins. with 15 creatures I would end up seeing maybe 2 a game, and they would not stick around for long, or they would be out sized by an opposing tarmogoyf. playing around daze for this deck is very counterproductive as a daze will force you to crack your fetch.. I don't wanna be condescending but if you have tested this, how skilled are your opponents/opponents decks.

I actually played a bunch of matches today with it, 7 in total, and didn't lose one of them. I lost alot of game 1's, usually on the draw, and was mulliganing to 6 a fair bit, but the deck was very strong for me. Grim Lavamancer did his fair share of pwn. I'll admit, the decks weren't very good, some weren't even Legacy, but I didn't lose one.

1st match: Standard Boros Bushwacker. Game 1 he has a perfect Path to stop Geo from hitting for 8. Spot removal for all my guys, and a Ranger of Eos to gas up and Kill me. Games 2 and 3 I outclass his threats with my removal, and he dies to Kiln Fiends eventually. This is a Standard deck, so I obviously needed to win.

2nd match: Cascade Living death. Game 1 I'm not fast enough. I get him to 1 life before he goes crazy, and I make the mistake of using Fireblast too early pumping Kiln Fiend. I needed to draw a red source, couldn't do it. Game 2 I hit him for 11 turn 2 with Steppe Lynxes and killed him the next turn. Game 3 was pretty similar, but involved a massive Kiln Fiend swing that he didn't see coming.

3rd match: Legacy Soldiers. Game 1 he's got removal for all 3 of my Plated Geopedes. I try playing the long game with Grim Lavamancer, but he has lords in Field Marshal and Daru Warchief so I lose. Game 2 I pull out from the depths of defeat. I have nothing but lands in my hand for awhile, but I'm able to remove his stuff 1 by 1. Eventually I draw a Geopede, and bash in there for alot with Reckless Charge. I saved some fetches in my hand and that was GG. Game 3 he didn't have a chance. Turn 1 Lynx, Turn 2 Searing Blaze, Turn 3 Geopede--> Reckless Charge.
He just ran out of removal every game that I won. Burn spells were very good.

4th match: Standard Allies. Yeah, I went way too fast for him. 3-0 easily. No contest.

5th match: Naya Zoo. I go turn 1 plateau lynx. He plays turn 1 Taiga Nacatl. I waste his land, bolt his nacatl and swing. Next turn I drop a geopede, and procede to burn out everything in my way. His thoctar catches a Fireblast, and my geopede gets bolted, but Kiln Fiend comes in to finish the job. Game 2 is just a blowout. Turn 1 Lavamancer, turn 2 hasted Steppe Lynx catches him offguard. He tries playing defense, where he probably should have been attacking, and I just finish him off with burn spells. Lightning Helix was good, as you'd expect.

6th match: U/G Madness. My threats are too good for his, and I throw bolts at his Wild Mongrels. I take games 1 and 2, the deck was just running very smoothly, and he didn't play any removal outside of Bounce. Didn't give him time to set up his stuff.

7th match: Legacy Monoblack Control. I take game 1 on the play by turn 3. He taps out turn 2 to play Nantuko Shade. I play a Lynx, Bolt his Guy, Fetchland, Reckless Charge for 11. He edicts me, but Lynx swings at him once and I burn him out. Game 2 I get him to two life with many lands in play, but he stabalizes with a Korlash in play. I have 4 turns to draw burn, but I drew lands. Game 3 was very close, but he used his edicts at bad times, letting me throw my Geopedes and Steppe Lynxes away after I was out of lands. Eventually I get a Kiln Fiend to stick, and he attacks for 7 on top of double burn for GG.

So all in all, that's 15-4 in games, 7-0 in matches. Granted, these aren't tier 1 Legacy decks, but I was happy to have won. It sounds like you didn't play with much conviction. Do you think you made any mistakes? I see this deck as an Aggro deck that has a legitimate chance to steal wins against combo decks that don't know yet what it's doing. Reckless Charge was also amazing. It was always involved in winning me games, and I flashed it back multiple times! All in all, it was a good showing.

[Resist_Temptation]

I had way too much issues with dealing with a tarmogoyf. I see this deck having a ton of issues against the many bant variants. They pack dazes which either mess with your fetches or make you play a turn slower, both plans are not very promising. Every time I got to cast reckless charge the opponent had a spot removal ready. I assumed that I would draw into another creature so that the hastey attack would come at much greater of a surprise. I may have made a few play mistakes, but the mistakes would not have magically turned the match around. They would have included holding back a turn to have mana to pay for daze (effectively playing a turn slower.)...so random but I tested a game just now and managed to win against DDAnt. I am guessing that it was an unskilled pilot as it was on mws...but I still won.

[troopatroop]

Bant decks have things we worry about, for sure. Counterbalance, Rhox War Monk, Tarmogoyf, etc. Bant decks also have things that we have many answers too. I think the matchup is probably close to 50/50. We have Wastelands and Bolts to wreck their mana development. We play burn spells to accompany our creatures, which are all fairly big. We have alot of threat density, and great SB options. We care about alot of their cards, but they care about ours too. Not all their guys are huge. Qasali Pridemage and Noble Hierarch eat it to everything we play. We are the faster deck. They play answers, but usually only 4 STP for removal. It doesn't seem overwhelmingly bad, is all I'm saying.

[Resist_Temptation]

They also have forces and daze, and the fact that our guys are not technically big. they are big with landfall triggers, or instants being cast, but by themselves they are not very big. If anything I think the match swings a bit more in their favor depending on if its bant or a variant with more lands and no hierarchs.

[troopatroop]

They also have forces and daze, and the fact that our guys are not technically big. they are big with landfall triggers, or instants being cast, but by themselves they are not very big. If anything I think the match swings a bit more in their favor depending on if its bant or a variant with more lands and no hierarchs.

Force is 2 cards for 1, and Daze puts them a land back. It doesn't matter that our guys are only big during the attack step, because they don't play burn spells. I think almost all Bant decks play Noble Hierarch, and if they're counting on him with their opener, they're gonna get burned.

I still think it's close to even, I know they play some counters.

[EssKay]

Thresh is going to be a tough match up too. Fire is going to be a 2 for 1 lots of times, and stifle will be a bitch with so many fetches. If you don't have a good established meta in your area, I would consider putting together a 4-way proxy deck so you have a decent variety of established decks/DTB on hand to test against.

[AznSeal]

i think this deck has potential. why not zektar shrine

[LordEvilTeaCup]

i think this deck has potential. why not zektar shrine

It's a horrible topdeck, and is not as good as the creatures he is already using.

[EssKay]

Emerge Unscathed could be a house in this deck. In doing a bit of testing with a similar deck, I've found the biggest weakness is that the creatures are easy to chump block or trade with. Fiend in particular is easy to deal with because his toughness always stays at 2. Emerge Unscathed not only pumps him, in many cases it will let him slip past all their blockers.

Also, I know it makes it less consistent, but adding Green could give you some serious power. You get access to crop rotation which pumps all your guys (fetch -> land -> crop rot -> fetch -> land = huuuge cats/bugs), and you get access to better trample effects like
Berserk
Colossal Might
Overrun

Overrun is probably too much of a green commitment, but all the others help to push damage through so you don't get blocked by tokens all day.

[Draener]

Have you considered Emerge Unscathed?

It is pretty insane in my testing combined with steppe lynx or kiln fiend.

[troopatroop]

I really like it, hadn't seen it until now. Very interesting, makes things like Berserk infinitely more viable. Extremely rough decklist to follow.

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Plated Geopede
4 Kiln Fiend

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Emerge Unscathed
3 Collosal Might
3 Reckless Charge
3 Berserk

20 Lands

Could something like this work? How do we fit in Crop Rotation?

[EssKay]

Maybe drop 1 Colossal Might and the Reckless Charges, or drop Colossal Might completely and 1 Reckless Charge since you're already running Berserk. Crop Rot also helps to make your manabase a bit more resilient, as you can respond to a wasteland with it to just grab a replacement.

[nateo]

I'd look back at firemind's version with crop rotation. Maybe try something like this:

4 x Nactyl
4 x lynx
4 x geopede
4 x kiln fiend

4 x bolt
4 x chain lightning
3 x searing blaze
3 x rift bolt
3 x crop rotation
3 x reckless charge
2 x fireblast

4 x wooded foothills
4 x arid mesa
4 x bloodstaind mire
3 x wasteland
3 x plateau
2 x tiaga
1 x mountain
1 x smoldering spires (or teetering peaks)

[AznSeal]

has there been any recent results with this deck?

[eq.firemind]

Does anyone still playing this?

I have a lot of fun with the following list in MWS:

CRAPFALL
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
2 Mountain

4 Steppe Lynx
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Plated Geopede
4 Kiln Fiend

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Searing Blaze
2 Fireblast

3 Reckless Charge
3 Crop Rotation
4 Manamorphose

SIDE
3 Ancient Grudge - Chalice, equips, Vial
2 Krosan Grip - Countertop, Survival
2 Vexing Shusher - Countertop, Chalice
2 Gaddock Teeg - Elspeth, Jace, Natural Order, Combo
3 Price of Progress - Lands, greedy manabases (like UWbg Landstill),
3 Gravehate slots

Goblin Guide becomes Grim Lavamancer and it was great improvement. The ability to shoot down 2-3 small dudes or burn 1 tarmo for 1 card is great. Also the situation Guide+Charge makes me a little sad 'cause Haste is what makes Charge such a good card and Guide already has haste. But now it's fine - Charge is always used on full power and Lavamancer is generally much better card than Guide.
The second noticable change is the lack of Wasteland. Barbarian Ring took the place and now Crop Rotation can do damage. Sometimes Trеshold conflicts with Lavamancer, but that situation is rare because of 12 fetches Manamorphose+Crop Rotation.
I'm not sure about the second Ring. Maybe it should be another card, most likely a burn spell or single Path to Exile, or even Emerge Unscathed. I playerd 21 lands before and it was perfect (Manamorphose helps getting enough mana and landfall triggers), now 22 seems to be a little bit too much.

The only real issue I still have is sideboard.
The problem is that it should contain instant/sorceries to feed Kiln Fiend or cards that replace it in certain MU (For example, I side -2 Fiend, +2 Teeg versus Landstilll). And there's no GY hate that fits. Well, actually, there is Krosan Reclamation, but 2 mana is often too slow vs Dredge or Reanimator.

[AznSeal]

i think im going to build this irl. why not lightning helix?

my current deck

4 Steppe Lynx
4 Goblin Guide
4 Plated Geopede
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast
3 Searing Blaze
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Plateau
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Mountain
2 Plains
Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Jotun Grunt
4 Seal of Cleansing
3 Path to Exile

[Pich]

Ethersworn Canonist/Pyrostatic Pillar in SB ? Path over Swords ? Duergar Hedge Mage over Seal Of Clensing ?

Also, Jotun Grunt isn't a sideboard card, and 4 is too much even if you play against Zoo or dredge.. -4 Grunt SB, -2 Helix MD, + 2 Jotun Grunt MD.

Also, just rebuild your sideboard, i'd play this :
5 Relic / Crypt / Macabre / Trap
3 Pyroblast / Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyrostatic Pillar / Ethersworn Canonist
3 Awesome Stuff ( Price Of Progress, Duergar Hedge Mage.. ) yo, depend about metagame.

[Malloot]

Looks like a nice fast Sligh list you made troopa.
Good to see someone else who likes Reckless charge as much as i do, the interaction with landfall seems really nice.
To bad i don't have all them fetches to make it work :P
The only change i would make is remove the Helixes for something faster like Shard Volley or Reckless Abandon or maybe a combination of them. You have enough critters to use abandon and the curve to support Shard volley

ignore Resist_Temptation mate, the guy gave some useless comments just to say something and gets pissed of because you don't agree with him. the tone of your posts is perfect so he's just derailing the thread

[tprisbe]

I think I would use Fling over Reckless Abandon, even at 1 more mana. As an instant, it would allow you to use it on a creature that was already going to be removed/destroyed by your opponent, and would also potentially work very well with Berserk if you were playing it. You should be able to get potentially a lot more than 4 damage (Reckless Abandon) using Fling.

[Iare]

This is the Boros deck I have together and I've been really happy with its performance against a wide variety of decks. Especially stomps on creature based decks and slow aggro control, unless you face an early countertop . Combo obviously isn't fun, but the plan is to board into a faster goldfish and pray :)

Creatures - 14
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Kiln Fiend
3 Keldon Maruaders
3 Jotun Grunt

Instant - 22
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Volcanic Fallout
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path To Exile
3 Fireblast
3 Emerge unscathed

Sorcery- 3
3 Rift Bolt

Lands- 21
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Plateau
8 Mountain
1 Plains

Sideboard: 15
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Chain Lightning
4 Seal of Cleansing
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Rift Bolt
1 Fireblast

[AznSeal]

have you tried splashing black for dark confident?

[Deadpool]

I've had some early success with this list. My basic strategy in the deck building was to have the early game huge beats (swinging for 16 on turn 3) but also be able to stabilize and play the long game without running completely out of steam like burn.


4x Steppe Lynx
3x Kiln Fiend
4x Plated Geopede
4x Figure of Destiny

3x Mountain
1x Plains
4x Arid Mesa
4x Plateau
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Sacred Foundry

2x Koth of the Hammer

2x Fireblast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
4x Chain Lightning
3x Rift Bolt


Sideboard (My meta has a lot of blue and a couple Landstill matchups so this is meant more for that)

1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Meekstone
2x Vexing Shusher
2x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Disenchant
3x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast


FoD is an early game thread and if you land Koth he can turn him into an 8/8. I prefer FoD to Kargan Dragonlord for now.

My original list had a little more white and ran Flagstones/Ghost Quarter/Armageddon but so far I really like Koth.

A little bit about my testing so far:

Against Merfolk:
- Pretty typical, burn their lords (making Kiln fiend bigger) and drop fetchlands. I swung pretty consistently for 10-16 by turn 3 but Daze can be pretty rough since this deck likes to tap out to pump out early damage. If my opponent was playing Stifle this match would have been much harder.

Against Landstill:
- This match up wants the Armageddons more than Koth... Facing off against an opponent that can stabilize at 2 life and drop Iso Scepter/Counterspell or Scepter/Swords can result in some frustrating matches. In the board I would have at least a couple Shushers, REBs and maybe Price of Progress, all of which help this matchup. Even Disenchant I feel is a reasonable sideboard slot to help against Landstill/CounterTop/Vial/Jitte/etc.

If anyone is interested in more detailed reports and more lists I play against I'll share.

[AznSeal]

I've had some early success with this list. My basic strategy in the deck building was to have the early game huge beats (swinging for 16 on turn 3) but also be able to stabilize and play the long game without running completely out of steam like burn.


4x Steppe Lynx
3x Kiln Fiend
4x Plated Geopede
4x Figure of Destiny

3x Mountain
1x Plains
4x Arid Mesa
4x Plateau
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Sacred Foundry

2x Koth of the Hammer

2x Fireblast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
4x Chain Lightning
3x Rift Bolt


Sideboard (My meta has a lot of blue and a couple Landstill matchups so this is meant more for that)

1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Meekstone
2x Vexing Shusher
2x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Disenchant
3x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast


FoD is an early game thread and if you land Koth he can turn him into an 8/8. I prefer FoD to Kargan Dragonlord for now.

My original list had a little more white and ran Flagstones/Ghost Quarter/Armageddon but so far I really like Koth.

A little bit about my testing so far:

Against Merfolk:
- Pretty typical, burn their lords (making Kiln fiend bigger) and drop fetchlands. I swung pretty consistently for 10-16 by turn 3 but Daze can be pretty rough since this deck likes to tap out to pump out early damage. If my opponent was playing Stifle this match would have been much harder.

Against Landstill:
- This match up wants the Armageddons more than Koth... Facing off against an opponent that can stabilize at 2 life and drop Iso Scepter/Counterspell or Scepter/Swords can result in some frustrating matches. In the board I would have at least a couple Shushers, REBs and maybe Price of Progress, all of which help this matchup. Even Disenchant I feel is a reasonable sideboard slot to help against Landstill/CounterTop/Vial/Jitte/etc.

If anyone is interested in more detailed reports and more lists I play against I'll share.

why no goblin guide

[Deadpool]

why no goblin guide

In my meta I play against Landstill, Aggro Loam and a few others that consistently take advantage of getting the land from guide. In fact anyone with a spare blue mana open can Brainstorm and ensure they draw an extra card. It just doesn't work well for me, though I like the little guy.