Sneak Attack doing well?

[dahcmai]

I watched the Star City Atlanta tournament and saw this deck. I had to chuckle as it's Sneak Attack using Eldrazi. Adam Justice made this it seems. He didn't top 16, but he was 5-1 when they did the deck tech video.

Then I saw the list and thought, you know, that's not bad. Check it out. I for one want some Blood Moon action and such, but this list makes me smile.

Sorry for the numbers on the lands, couldn't see all the cards well. You can probably figure out a good mix on your own anyway.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
? Mountains
? Crystal Vein
? Arid Mesa
? Scalding Tarn

4 Emrakul
4 Hellcarver Demon
3 Ulamog
2 Kosliek
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Sneak Attack
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Gamble
2 Through the Breech
4 Magma Jet


SB
3 Pithing Needle
3 Earthquake (though he mentioned it should be EE)
3 Relic
4 Pyroblast
2 Final Fortune



Weird, but interesting and really a lot more consistent than I thought it would be. I guess he hard casted some of that stuff lol Had some frightening turns for any deck.


I personally love the Hellcarver. That's just a smart pick. Anyway, might be worth a small discussion on it. It's just surprising to see one smash some face since the block days.

[majikal]

It looks like a really fun deck, but I dont' think it's really any better than Dragon Stompy.

[SpeedOfDark]

card tags yo:


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
? Mountains
? Crystal Vein
? Arid Mesa
? Scalding Tarn

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Hellcarver Demon
3 Ulamog, the infinite gyre
2 Kozilek
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Sneak Attack
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Gamble
2 Through the Breach
4 Magma Jet


SB
3 Pithing Needle
3 Earthquake (though he mentioned it should be EE)
3 Relic of progenitus
4 Pyroblast
2 Final Fortune

interesting list indeed ;)

I do like the hellcarver lol-factor. Quick rules question: after the hellcarver lands a hit with sneak attack, do you still need to sacrifice it? (since the enchantment is no longer in play) If not: moar lol-factor ;p

[MMogg]

I do like the hellcarver lol-factor. Quick rules question: after the hellcarver lands a hit with sneak attack, do you still need to sacrifice it? (since the enchantment is no longer in play) If not: moar lol-factor ;p

Pretty sure you do need to sacrifice it. The sacrifice is a delayed trigger that was part of the initial :r: activation's resolution. It's kind of stamped on the creature so to speak.

[dahcmai]

I always forget about the card tags, sorry bout that.

Anyway, the guy smashed some decks I wouldn't have thought he could with this. Kind of like he was facing down a Belcher deck and it was 1st turn 12 gobins, go. Then he just gambles for a card and unfortunately he got his sneak attack snagged, but I realized he would have actually been able to sneak in an Emrakul 1st turn against that and pulled out. That's impressive.

[MMogg]

I always forget about the card tags, sorry bout that.

Anyway, the guy smashed some decks I wouldn't have thought he could with this. Kind of like he was facing down a Belcher deck and it was 1st turn 12 gobins, go. Then he just gambles for a card and unfortunately he got his sneak attack snagged, but I realized he would have actually been able to sneak in an Emrakul 1st turn against that and pulled out. That's impressive.

As impressive as that may be, why would anyone want to play a tier 2, inconsistent combo deck when there are tier 1 consistent combo decks running around? Gamble isn't a bad card, but it's a bad card in this deck. It's a very narrow card and this deck isn't its right home/use.

[Barook]

Were MD REB really necessary? Especially in a combo deck with basically no draw?

I guess the fetchlands were there to increase the consistency of Demon, right?

[dahcmai]

I'm assuming the fetches are there to reset a back Scry off Magma Jet. That's about all I can see.

It's kind of hard to compare this to Dragon Stompy since that's a little like saying why play Counterbalance when you can play Faerie Stompy. Two very different decks.

It's nothing I would ever play (I like U too much), but it's nice to see a fresh idea that actually worked.

[caiomarcos]

Sneak Attack decks are as fresh as 1998, and I'm still not convinced that it worked.

[FoulQ]

Yes, it might be a tier 2 combo deck.

However, it is a tier 2 combo deck that mediocre or worse players will lose to because they don't understand it very well. Look at how well Dream Halls performed the first few weeks after the unbanning, until opponents understood the combo better.

For smaller or less skilled metas, why the hell not throw it in your deck cycle once in a while to confuse people. You need variation, otherwise you'll go insane. Not as good as stuff like ANT, but everyone knows how to play against ANT. The fact is, the deck CAN compete, and that's enough that it should be in your consideration to throw people off once in a while at small weekly events.

Or if you want to really be risky, at a huge event where lots of people will not be expecting such a rogue deck in their preparations or playstyle.

[General_Norris]

I think that the problem with Sneak attack is that it creatures are dead weight but you need a good deal of them if you want some steam. For me, given that you play lots of two mana lands and Mox Diamond I would play at least the following:

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Powder Keg
3 Blood Moon

I think that Hellcarver is a very interesting card. You need something to get more steam after playing SA so it's either this or Dragon Mage. Dragon Mage is better than most will give credit for but still subpar. Hellcarver is better but you can't hadcast it and that's not good.

I would rather play Sundering Titan and Crater Hellion and be able to hardcast them and get a turn three clock than having a 11 cc fatty doing nothing in my hand. Umalog doesn't trample and doesn't resist StP so he is a worse Darksteel Colosus. Ermakul has flying and with other spell you can finish off an opponent.

In the end, this deck has only 6 threats plus 4 Red Elemental Blasts. I don't think this is enough. The blasts also require you to wait a turn longuer most of the time and that can matter quite a lot in a format with Wasteland.

@FoulQ

Playstile doesn't matter because at most, that means you are inmune to Daze game 1. Duress, Wasteland, Swords to Plowshares, Chump blockers and other faster combo decks will work the same way even if they don't know what deck you are playing.

[dahcmai]

Well, that's why I put the question mark in the title of this thread. I get a kick out of it, though I had reservations about it's playability. I kind of hope there's something to it, though I don't have the cards for this and don't plan to proxy it up (mountains frigging hate me). I would be nice to see an old type 2 deck get a reboot.

Some one should proxy this pile up and let us know if it has any merit to it or should be relegated to the trash bin. I've seen too many decks bashed upon as trash and then they turn up winning tournaments later because people didn't expect it. (Cough, Dream Halls)

[MMogg]

Well, that's why I put the question mark in the title of this thread. I get a kick out of it, though I had reservations about it's playability. I kind of hope there's something to it, though I don't have the cards for this and don't plan to proxy it up (mountains frigging hate me). I would be nice to see an old type 2 deck get a reboot.

Some one should proxy this pile up and let us know if it has any merit to it or should be relegated to the trash bin. I've seen too many decks bashed upon as trash and then they turn up winning tournaments later because people didn't expect it. (Cough, Dream Halls)

But Dream Halls still is kind of tier 2, isn't it? Nearly all decks are capable of winning a tournament, even a large one, but to consistently win is the key, and Dream Halls certainly hasn't been doing that (as far as I can tell).

Sneak has always been bad and the only reason it is even approaching near playability is because of the ludicrous power creep of fatties. Nevertheless, from my experience playing Sneak Attack, it's a pretty inconsistent deck. Nothing has changed only the fat beasts are more damaging if and when you bring them out. I guess one slight difference is with the Eldrazi fat being colourless you may have a chance to actually hardcast them with mana accel, but still, that's not a great plan B.

[morgan_coke]

Huh. Interesting concept. But I'm pretty surprised no one has combined the SA plan with a blueshell like everything else gets these days. Something like (and this is completely off the top of my head):

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Opt/Serum Visions/Portent/SDT/whatever 3rd cantrip you like

4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song

4x Sneak Attack
2x Through the Breach

4x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4x Hellcarver Demon

4x Scalding Tarn
2x Arid Mesa
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Volcanic Island
4x Mountain
2x Island
4x Ancient Tomb

I dunno, something like this might be worse, but then again, it might not FT and other combo decks have proven pretty reliably that the cantrips are/can be useful. And casting a bunch of cantrips off of hellcarver does refill your hand, and with the shuffles from teh eldrazi, the one mana blues seem like they'd pop up/be useful a lot more often than otherwise.

[Skeggi]

If you splash blue, wouldn't Show and Tell be a shoo-in?

[General_Norris]

Huh. Interesting concept. But I'm pretty surprised no one has combined the SA plan with a blueshell like everything else gets these days. Something like (and this is completely off the top of my head):

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Opt/Serum Visions/Portent/SDT/whatever 3rd cantrip you like

4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song

4x Sneak Attack
2x Through the Breach

4x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4x Hellcarver Demon

4x Scalding Tarn
2x Arid Mesa
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Volcanic Island
4x Mountain
2x Island
4x Ancient Tomb
.

Using blue has been been tried quite a lot. Your list runs into tons of problems:

1) No defense against Swords to Plowshares or any kind of creature removal or bounce
2) Incredibly weak against counterspells (Only 6 real threats)
3) Unhardcastable fatties.
4) Zero disruption, slower than Belcher and less resilent makes it a worse deck than it
5) Unreliable mana accel
6) Weak against discard

Sneak Attack the following problems compared to other decks:

1) Creatures being dead weight without SA
2) The deck is vulnerable to most hate
3) The deck loses steam easily
4) 2 means that you need more disruption and 3 means that you need more creatures. That is contradictory and the main fault of the deck, IMHO

[ScatmanX]

Wouldn't Defense Grid be great here?
It not only stops counters, but removals also.

[Grollub]

You guys shouldn't be too fast to call the deck inconsistent, the Shoal/Sneak/Breach monored deck in extended some years ago was deceptively consistent and very strong.

Running out of gas doesn't really look like that much of a concern too me, as a swing with any of the creatures is pretty much good game. Hellcarver Demon unloads casted eldrazi whilst the eldrazi destroy your opponents board completely.

[bleuisforwhimps]

My list looks something like this now :

Spells:

4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
3 blood moon
3 magus of the moon
4 sneak attack
4 show and tell
4 intuition
4 woodfall primus
4 emrakul, the aeons torn

Mana:

4 simian spirit guides
4 chrome mox
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 scalding tarn
3 volcanic island
2 island
1 mountain


This deck is just better than dragon stompy because its more consistent, the stompy shell also gives the deck the protection it is looking for.
I have yet to play a tournament with it but testing shows promising results,against lands.deck for example its almost an autowin,against CB decks the matchup is also good. Decks against wich it performs less are decks with alot of discard and heavy LD.
About the creatures; Woodfall primus >annihilator 4, because ensnaring bridge kills you without primus and he leaves behind a clock/blocker when sneaked in. My bet is that sneak attack will definitely be a force in the near future and will shift the metagame, i don't understand why people are dismissing it(probably because they haven't played against it ).

[Nelis]

They're dismissing it because millions have tried to break Sneak Attack ever since it was printed and it just has never worked. Having said that, I like the deck you made and I actually hope it will become tier 1 (So I finally have a use for my Sneak Attacks).

[Grollub]

They're dismissing it because millions have tried to break Sneak Attack ever since it was printed and it just has never worked. Having said that, I like the deck you made and I actually hope it will become tier 1 (So I finally have a use for my Sneak Attacks).

Not quite true.
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=9671
:-)

Considering the fact phat as gotten so much considerable stronger, and there's plenty of ways to give a viable backup plan in the legacy cardpool (S'n'T and Reanimation? - heck even Erratic Explosion). I could actually easily see some form of Sneak Attack being a viable deck in Legacy, since it can function without using the graveyard at all - and having a clock no deck in the format can ignore while being virtually immune to alot of the mana disruption that's running rampant.

[dahcmai]

I didn't make the deck btw. It was played in the Star City 5k Atlanta. Not sure how well it did though. I just noticed it and thought it was interesting.