Vampires! Are they a viable legacy archeatype?

[Jon Stewart]

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_qTxgf8uqjbQ/SqezBjn7V6I/AAAAAAAAIr0/HWGIrWWBPXg/s400/M10%20Vampires.jpg
Vampires!

What does it take for a tribal archeatype to become legacy viable?

I'm not sure. But I believe that Vampires does have what it takes...

Disruption
Wasteland
Sinkhole
Inquisition of Kozilek
Thoughtseize
Duress
Hymn to Tourach
Smother
Snuff Out
Shriekmaw

Utility
Dark Ritual
Aether Vial
Reanimate
Virulent Swipe
Jitte
Sign in Blood
Skeletal Scrying
Phyrexian Arena
Volrath's Stronghold
Mishra's Factory
Cabal Pit
Bojuka Bog

Strong Tribal Threats
Pulse Tracker
Vampire Lacerator
Bloodghast
Gatekeeper of Malakir
Vampire Nighthawk
Arrogant Bloodlord
Vampire Nocturnus

Strong Nontribal Threats
Dark Confidant
Nantuko Shade
Withered Wretch
Hypnotic Specter
Fairie Macabre
Garza's Assassin
Tombstalker

Weaker Tribal Threats
Guul Draz Vampire
Child of Night
Kalastria Highborn
Bloodhusk Ritualist
Vampire Hexmage
Malakir Bloodwitch
Anowon, the Ruin Sage

It seems this tribe has access to a lot of great cards, and what it needs to compete with other legacy aggro decks atleast. Which begs the question, what do you feel is the correct approach to building such a deck? Which cards make the cut and which do not? Do nontribal creatures have a place in such a deck? Is there anything I may have left off?

I'm itching to build a Vampire themed legacy deck, so any tips, advice, or best of all, proposed decklists would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[Phoenix Ignition]

When building a tribal deck that isn't casual you have to ask yourself "Are the tribal benefits better than the risk of getting blown out by Engineered Plague?"

You only have 1 lord, he's 4cc, and your other creatures are just decent. There is really no reason to have a cutesy theme in magic like "vampires" when there are drawbacks and very limited benefits. Just splash some of them in mono black aggro or something.


Also, I swear this was a thread a month ago.

EDIT
Close enough. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17044-[Archetype-Discussion]-Goblins-vs-Vampires)

[kicks_422]

Well, you could possibly just take a Standard Vampire deck, sub in Legacy removal/disruption for most of the non-creature package, and fit in Dark Depths.

[Koby]

I think the strongest shell for Vampires is indeed the Dark Depths deck. I run an "Eva Green" inspired Vampire Depths so I can utilize Living Wish to tutor up not only Hexmage, Dark Depths, but also Malakir Bloodwitch (which is slightly better in my meta - lots of Death and Taxes around).

Also, Living Wish can get Volrath's Stronghold and Karakas vs Reanimator. I can't imagine a better Vampire deck than this.

[lordofthepit]

Not right now, there aren't enough quality Vampires. It could be competitive in the sense that a lot of the lower tier decks in the Established Decks Forum are competitive, but that's it.

However, I wouldn't be surprised to see WotC continue to push the tribal theme, so it could certainly be competitive in the future. Unlike other tribes, a black tribal theme would have access to a lot of removal and disruption, so it has that going for it against control and combo. And abilities like flying, lifelink, and deathtouch are "in theme" for Vampires, which would give it a relative advantage on aggro decks where traditional Suicide Black builds would have fallen short. But until there are more quality Vampires printed, this is all just idle speculation.

[Meekrab]

There's nothing in your 'tribal threats' list that I would want to play over any card from your 'non-tribal threats' list, except maybe Bloodghast because he recurs so easily. So... no. Vampires are miserable.

[Maveric78f]

Vampires are strong enough to see play in Legacy. But there is no 3CC or less Vampire synergy. So just play the best ones (namely Gatekeeper and Nighthawk) and avoid to commit too strongly into Vampires.

[HPB_Eggo]

Merfolk and goblin both have numerous tribal synergies, card advantage, a playable one-drop, and good finishers. Of these, you can use Confidant for draw and Nocturnus for the finish, but you lack the synergies and a playable one-drop.

You'll just have to wait until they come out with more cards, plain and simple.

[Malchar]

It just needs a few more lords and in-tribe card drawing would be excellent. If only dark confidant were a vampire...

[Wrath_Of_Houlding]

It opens up a whole new demographic though...hand a girl a foiled out vampire deck, say it's called "Sparkly Vampires" and every tween girl will be playing legacy.

[dahcmai]

Problem is there's only Hexmage, Gatekeeper, Bloodghast, and Nighthawk as even remotely playable vampires. So the theme if you wanted to keep it tribal becomes subpar as soon as you have more than those and even these only have a passing ability to help each other out. There's no synergy at all between them.

Merfolk and Goblins work only because they have so many good choices that are practically busted when placed in a tribal environment. Vampires have none of this natural buildup going on as those two tribes do. Putting a Hexmage, nighthawk or gatekeeper out doesn't help out the others, they just are playable. Putting playable goblins together becomes incrementally better as you go.

Maybe if they print some better ones that help out more when they are played together, it might be possible then. Until then, it's not going to happen. There just isn't enough good ones. Though there is a mono-B control list running around that runs Gatekeepers and Nighthawks. It's not bad at all. You might give that a shot if you just feel the need to play Vampires no matter what.

[Meekrab]

Random question: Why does the wording on Vampire Nocturnus say "... Vampire Nocturnus and other Vampire creatures you control"?

Couldn't it just say "Vampire creatures you control"? Is this just to let noobs know for sure that it does in fact pump itself?

[Blackblade_Initiate]

Random question: Why does the wording on Vampire Nocturnus say "... Vampire Nocturnus and other Vampire creatures you control"?

Couldn't it just say "Vampire creatures you control"? Is this just to let noobs know for sure that it does in fact pump itself?

If the ability read "Vampire Creatures you control...BLAHBLAHBLAH", then if Nocturnus's creature type changed he wouldn't pump himself. Right now he pumps himself regardless of his own creature type.

[pi4meterftw]

EDIT
Close enough. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17044-[Archetype-Discussion]-Goblins-vs-Vampires)

Where would we be without your detective work? Saving space on my monitor, one pixel at a time!

Also, at OP: wtf is utility? Like if that word is even a category of magic cards, you would expect to find the swiss army knives of black. Like charms where you choose 3 things or whatever. But instead it's like: utility: dark ritual.

Is utility just a blanket word now for cards that aren't anything else?