[DECK] The Game (Redux)

[SpikeyMikey]

I warned Hollywood before RoE came out that I was going to savagely steal his deck and retune it after the release. Everyone was talking about various ways to cheat Emrakul into play, but the strongest shell was, to my mind, Hollywood's old "The Game". Unlike Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, or Shelldock Isle, The Game does not need to run multiple copies of it's kill condition. This frees up slots for disruption. While glass cannon fast combo can win (like 'Belcher), resilient combo (like AnT) is almost always better. The less slots dedicated to your combo, the more slots you can dedicate to resiliency.

Because The Game is an older deck, I redesigned it from the ground up, pulling cards that I liked from the original deck and updating and bending some slots to work better within the meta. Most combo is fast enough to beat aggro. If it's not, what's the point? The balance a combo deck needs to achieve is an ability to race aggro but disrupt control enough to win through counterspells. This is where I think that The Game shines. I've packed the deck with 11 discard spells and 8 land destruction, giving it a Suicide-with-a-combo-win feel to it.

The deck does have one glaring weakness. Graveyard hate. Because Gamekeeper's ability is a triggered ability and not a replacement effect, a timely Crypt/Relic/Macabre/etc. can shut it down. Because the deck runs so much disruption and so little in the way of a combo chain, fizzling the combo once buys reams of time to try and win before The Game can find another Gamekeeper. Of course, it's not hopeless by any means, The Game runs discard and Deeds as a way to stop hate.

The Game

4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Sinkhole
3 Hymn to Tourach

4 Pernicious Deed
4 Innocent Blood

4 Living Wish
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Gamekeeper
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

5 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
2 Ground Seal
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Gamekeeper
1 Bojuka Bog

In all fairness, the sideboard is mostly trash. I don't have enough games with this deck to know what I'd need to board against. I've only got half a dozen games in on MWS and haven't had a need for anything out of the board to win. I wouldn't have even posted the decklist with this little testing except that I know that I'm getting further and further out of Magic as time goes on, and I think that this has enough promise to eventually be a tier 1 deck that I feel like someone should be working on it. So please feel free to comment and to tweak the deck in your own direction. It's a strong base, but there are still a few cards that I feel could be stronger, like the SDTs.

[Jon Stewart]

Great idea for a deck. I have ten feedbacks that I would really appreciate hearing back from you about...

1. Play more pinpoint discard. The gamekeepers other weakness is that it's very vulnerable to nongraveyard hate as well. Yes, it's hit by Crypt and every other grave hate card under the sun. But in addition to that, if your Gamekeeper or Living Wish gets StPed, Pathed, FoWed, Spell Pierced, Thoughtseized, Dazed etc, you're kind of screwed. You absolutely need to play a discard suite consisting of...

4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
Unmask and Inquisition are also decent options.

When facing off against so much hate, you need to run such a package. You need them far more than you need Hymn. And pinpoint discard makes your Cabal Therapies a lot better too, plus they slow down burn decks, fast aggro decks and combo decks.

2. Run Snuff Out or atleast some instant speed removal
Ghastly Demise
Snuff Out
Vendetta

I like Snuff Out in particular because it's a 0cc instant. It can be played in response to your opponents StP or Path or Echoing Truth. And it can be used at your opponent's endstep on the same turn that you played Gamekeeper, plus it can kill Goyfs for free.

3. Play 1 Wasteland and 1 Tombstalker in the sideboard. There's situations where you might want to Living Wish up a Tombstalker (if your opponent Extracts Emrakul), or Wasteland (That land that taps attacking creatures, Dark Depths).

4. Play Worldly Tutor. Why not? It's a tutor for the one and only card that you really need to cast and resolve to win the game. You could even cut Gamekeeper down to a 2 of if you play Worldly Tutors to grab it when you need it. Turn one Worldly Tutor to get a Gamekeeper, turn 2 Dark Ritual, Gamekeeper, Snuff Out right away if your opponent is tapped out, Cabal Therapy flashbacks is game.

5. If you want LD, don't play Sinkhole, play Smallpox. Smallpox goes great with Gamekeeper. You can even use it discard away an Emrakul that's stuck in your hand. Plus Sinkhole can be very hit or miss unless your deck is lightning fast. If you want LD to be a defining strategy of your deck, splash white, and run 4 Wasteland, 4 Sinkhole, 4 Smallpox and 4 Vindicate in the deck's 75. Your opponents will be screaming out in anger at you, and Vindicates can be used to get rid of problem cards like Leylines too, and both Smallpox and Vindicate can be used to kill your own Gamekeeper.

6. Have you considering putting a couple of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (let you cast Smallpox off of Wasteland) and Dark Depths in the maindeck, and a one of Vampire Hexmage in the board. This would give you an alternate win condition that's not reliant on the graveyard. The idea is probably rubbish but just thought I should bring it up.

7. Have you considered Sylvan Library over Top? Also, Beseech the Queen isn't a bad tutor. And two Nev's Disk tutorable can go a long way in resetting problem matchups and singlehandedly winning games.

8. Everyone is going to ask you to splash blue for Brainstorm, Ponder, Daze, FoW (the usual package found in every single legacy deck). And once you do, everyone is going to ask you why you're not just playing B/U Reanimator instead. Do you have an answer?

9. Gamekeeper says "put Emrakul in play" rather than just "play." This means that Emrakul's play bonus (you get an extra turn) doesn't trigger, therefore your opponent will get one last turn to cast a Innocent Blood, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Noetic Scales, Wrath, Damnation or whatever card it is they need to destroy Emrakul before they lose all their lands to Annihator 6. I'm guessing you knew that already but just wanted to make sure.

10. Please use deck tags.

Here is my proposed combo centric list...

// Lands
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Phyrexian Tower

// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Gamekeeper

// Spells
3 Thoughtseize
4 Innocent Blood
4 Vindicate
4 Dark Ritual
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Living Wish
3 Duress
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Worldly Tutor

// Sideboard
1 Gamekeeper
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Shriekmaw
1 Wispmare
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tombstalker
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Bojuka Bog


I'm very intrigued by the possibilty of playing a Magus of the Moat in the board to wish up but I have no room for it.

Here is my proposed LD/Disruption centric list...

3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach

2 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate

4 Living Wish
3 Gamekeeper
2 Worldly Tutor/Phyrexian Arena
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Wasteland
19 Other Lands

Transformational Sideboard into The Gate or Eva Green

1 Gamekeeper
1 Wasteland
1 Tombstalker
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Fairie Macabre
2 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf

As you can see, the above list is practically a pox control deck, one that devotes 8 slots total to it's win condition. Otherwise all it does is disrupt your opponent until they are reduced to tears.

Being a combo control deck, I am debating whether the 2 flex slots would be better served going to Worldly Tutor in order to grab the combo, to sylvan library to increase selection, or the very underrated Phyrexian Arena for sheer card advantage.

P. Arena is grossly underrated here imo. It digs almost as far as Sylvan Library/Top does. Actually, on your second turn with it on the table, it digs just as deep, and from then on, it digs deeper than Top or Sylvan Library would have (a fetchland changes that calculation a bit, but only for one turn). Plus given the powerlevel of the individual cards in the deck, sheer card advantage of these potent weapons is enough to win games by itself even without the selection ability.

I am also debating the land count for the controllish (non Dark Ritual) build of the deck. I feel like 23 is a good number since you can always sacrifice and discard extra lands to smallpox and wasteland. But 23 may prove to be overkill.

[Brushwagg]

A couple of other suggetions.

1. Have you considered splashing Blue? I did an loved it in the early version of the game. Blue gives you Brainstorm, which puts stuff back into the deck that you don't want in your hand. IE: Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Blue also gives you Lim-Dul's Vault. Which sets up Gamekeeper so you don't flush the whole deck.

2. You might want to up your kill count or add something like Treetop Village. It use to work in older versions and gives you a plan B.

3. I would look into add Needle or something for the graveyard hate.

[purlqg]

This deck seems like what my meta needs right now, thats why ive been testing it as of late.

With the Living Wish board plan I feel like the deck needs an alternative win for when you get emrakuel removed, maybe something like gigapede? It plays well with deed and comes back.

Leyline of the Void should be nice out of the board, in conjunction with the discard it should take care of most combo decks. :)

[freakish777]

I agree with Brushwagg on splashing Blue. If you choose not to however, I think Deed should be Maelstrom Pulse.

Also, consider putting Iona in the sideboard to bring in for Emrakul against ANT? It may not be necessary if you're going to be blasting their hand with Cabal Therapies, but I think it's something worth testing to see if it improves your match against ANT.

While Living Wish is a great card, you might actually want Worldy Tutor for speed? It obviously means you would lose some answers and resiliency. If you think speed is the way to go, look into Lotus Petal.

[mX-]

Nice deck, some other suggestions:

Plunge into Darkness
Maelstrom Pulse
Diabolic Intent

Plunge is great since it's an instant, so you might surprise your opponent and get Emrakul ready to annihilate at the end of opp's turn. You can use it to dig cards too, but risky with only 1 big dude because you may find emrakul and get fucked. Gotta check if you can resolve gamekeeper in the middle of the cast if you paid the entwine cost, so you wouldn't be in trouble.

Maelstrom pulse like other said is way better than deed in this case. You can leave some Deed at the side so you can use it on specific cases.

Diabolic Intent is an interesting card, you WILL sacrifice your creature even if the opp counters it as it's an additional cost. Better than that, you can choose ANY card from your library and put it in your hand. I'd say to have not more than 2, since it's useless if you dont have gamekeeper ready yet.


What happens if you draw emrakul? Thoughtseize yourself? This may be risky, there could be more than 1 big dude out at the deck even to raise % to hit it instead of another gamekeeper.

And sinkhole doesn't fit in this deck. You can boost it with others things to make the combo more reliable.

[Jon Stewart]

Why are you guys focusing on narrow cards that require you to sac a creature, and aren't even all that useful when you do?

Cabal Therapy, Innocent Blood (and Smallpox to a lesser extent) work because they are exceedingly poweful and playable even without Gamekeeper.

If you want more ways to kill your Gamekeeper might I suggest non narrow instant speed removal spells like...

Ghastly Demise
Snuff Out
Vendetta
Doom Blade
Diabolic Edict

They actually buy you time against aggro and are imminently more playable than cards like Plunge into Darkness or Diabolic Intent.

I like Snuff Out in particular because it's a 0cc instant. It can be played in response to your opponents StP or Path in response to your Cabal Therapy. And it can be used at your opponent's endstep on the same turn that you played Gamekeeper, plus it can kill Goyfs for free.

Hell I think it's a better option than Smallpox even.

Aren't there situations where you might want to Living Wish up a Tombstalker (if your opponent Extracts Emrakul), or Wasteland (That land that taps attacking creatures, Dark Depths). I would play 3 Wastelands in the main and one in the side.

[Hawdes]

...
I like Snuff Out in particular because it's a 0cc instant. It can be played in response to your opponents StP or Path in response to your Cabal Therapy. And it can be used at your opponent's endstep on the same turn that you played Gamekeeper, plus it can kill Goyfs for free.
...
Hell I think it's a better option than Smallpox even.



Correction, when you sacrifice a creature to Cabal Therapy, they cannot respond with StP, Path or whatever they throw at you, since "sacrifice a creature" is the flashback COST, and therefore the creature is already in the graveyard when the opp. has priority...

[Jon Stewart]

Sorry, forgot about that. Regardless, when you don't have a Cabal Therapy in the yard already (you usually don't with your first Gamekeeper), being able to kill your Gamekeeper the same turn you cast it, while your opponent is still tapped out is fantastic.

Or if they are not tapped out, you can see if they try to StP it during their turn out feeling secure since you're tapped out just so you can Snuff Out in response. And you can always use it during your opponent's endstep to be beating with Emrakul during your next turn.

I updated the second post in the thread with my proposed list.

[SpikeyMikey]

Thanks for the response guys. If I knew how to use deck tags, I would've, but I couldn't seem to figure it out and so I left the list as plain text. I figured that everyone would know the cards, there's not a whole lot in there that doesn't see play besides Gamekeeper himself. Duress vs. Hymn is an interesting thought, but I'm not sure that I like it. I think the two are very similarly matched and I think it comes down to how you want to play the deck. Without adding extra tutoring, I don't think you can go the extra pinpoint route. I play the deck very much like Suicide Black or Pox up until it combos out. You disrupt your opponent's hand and mana until they're out of resources, then drop the Gamekeeper and start milling.

The blue is an interesting idea. I remembered that The Game had started out based in blue and moved away from it, cutting the color off completely. I assumed that the more stable mana base would be superior to any dig that I'd get out of blue, but Vault is an excellent idea in place of the SDTs. It's definitely a solid idea and something with trying out.

I doubt that ANT can beat this deck on any sort of consistent basis. ANT has problems with strong discard and it's mana base is unstable to begin with. Packing 8 LD cards to back up the discard suite means that they're going to have a very difficult time comboing out. It will force them to drop artifact mana early, rather than risk having it picked out of their hand, and then it's vulnerable to Deed. Post board with CotV to slow them down further... Unless they've got a god hand, they should lose just about every game.

It's almost impossible for people to remove Emrakul once he's in play. It's very unlikely that you're going to hit Emrakul with your first Gamekeeper (remember, more Gamekeepers than Emrakuls) so you should have stripped their entire hand, or close to it, with Therapies by the time he comes down. Protecting Emrakul is pretty easy.

Finally, I don't like Plunge because it's got such limited applications. You really only want it with a Gamekeeper on the board, and that's only good if you've got 6 mana available. Therapy only requires you to have 4 available for the Gamekeeper. Tower requires 5, 4 for the Gamekeeper plus the Tower itself. Plunge can be used to tutor, but it's very risky. I think the colorless mana is better than the bad tutor, which means that Tower is a clear winner over Plunge. The other method for killing Gamekeeper - Innocent Blood - is also more multi-functional, as it's generally going to be a spot removal spell to keep you from being overwhelmed in the early game. Intent suffers the same problem, except it has no effect without Gamekeeper on the board.

Edit: I do like the 'stalker in the board idea. That's actually very solid. It seems unlikely that Emrakul would ever get removed, but Wishing for Tombstalker seems better than Wishing for Emrakul and then having to 'sieze/Therapy him back into your deck. Snuff's not bad either, since Gamekeeper isn't black. I think Snuff Out is more of a board card, since you're already packing the 4 Bloods main (and I think that Blood is better against aggro decks, decks where you need the removal, than Snuff Out) but it's definitely a good option.

[gottfrid]

since you run 4 dark ritual I consider sadistic sacrament to be an auto 4-of in the board. The card hoses virtually all combo decks and is awesome in combination with discard.

[Jon Stewart]

Spikey, I really do think it's a mistake not to play a couple duress and smallpox in place of the sinkholes. The number of problem cards, from fow to stp, edicts and wrath that duress deals with is obscene, plus it makes cabal therapy better.

And you still haven't given a good reason why you're not playing a couple of worldly tutor.

Also 4 top is way overkill, it's useless in multiples.

Also maelstrom pulse is better than deed. The cards that you actually want to deed like leylines and your own gamekeepers have too high a cc and thus the deck becomes far too slow. Pulse kills them a turn faster.

[Jon Stewart]

I really love my control/pox variant of this deck.

3 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach

2 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate

4 Living Wish
3 Gamekeeper
2 Worldly Tutor/Phyrexian Arena
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Wasteland
19 Other Lands

As you can see, the above list is practically a pox control deck, one that devotes 8 slots total to it's win condition. Otherwise all it does is disrupt your opponent until they are reduced to tears.

But I have three areas of concern.

1. Deed, Nev's Disk, Damnation or none of the above? I don't think any are neccesary given all the creature sacrifice effects the deck runs but these cards are incredibly potent, especially Disk and Deed. Having the option to wipe out your opponent's entire board without effecting your deck at all is a tremendous opportunity.

2. Being a combo control deck, I am debating whether the 2 flex slots would be better served going to Worldly Tutor in order to grab the combo, to sylvan library to increase selection, or the very underrated Phyrexian Arena for sheer card advantage.

P. Arena is grossly underrated here imo. It digs almost as far as Sylvan Library/Top does. Actually, on your second turn with it on the table, it digs just as deep, and from then on, it digs deeper than Top or Sylvan Library would have (a fetchland changes that calculation a bit, but only for one turn). Plus given the powerlevel of the individual cards in the deck, sheer card advantage of these potent weapons is enough to win games by itself even without the selection ability.

What do you guys think?

3. I am also debating the land count for the controllish (non Dark Ritual) build of the deck. I feel like 23 is a good number since you can always sacrifice and discard extra lands to smallpox and wasteland. The curve does top off at 4 and there are plenty of discard and sacrfiice outlets for extra lands (Wasteland, Smallpox). But 23 may prove to be overkill because the deck itself is of the slower midrange variety. And your discard effects can already serve as fodder for Smallpox in the mid-late game.

[the resurrection]

B/G/r Game

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Badlands
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp
2 Cabal Pit -> sac Keeper

3 Engineered Explosives -> Maybe Pyroclasm is better here
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Diabolic Edict -> In my opinion better then IB, because it's instant

4 Gamekeeper
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Worm Harvest -> Kill #2

4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy

4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Burning Wish -> Reason for the R-splash
1 Krosan Reclamation ->a relict of the older lists

SB
1 Thoughtseize
1 firespout
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Crime//Punishment -> Kill #3 or deed(Light)
1 Flame Slash
3 Pyroclasm
4 Coffin Purge
1 Sylvan Tutor -> gamekeeper
1 Deathmark
1 Anchsetsor's Chosen -> against Burn/Sligh

Same problems as the other builts : swords and G.hate

Thoughts ?

[SpeedOfDark]

@OP: very cool deck, your list is already pretty strong as is. As you said, SDT is probably a weak slot. Someone else mentioned worldly tutor already, which is a bit more to the point, but in any case I don't think I would play 4 of either (SDT or worldly tutor).

@Jon Steward: good lists, I especially like your idea for the transfomational sideboards. I think this sideboarding tactic is underused and it seems to fit pretty nicely here. Fight aggro and combo with MD, and then pull out your aggro SB against anything that runs too much blue, sounds pretty sweet to me.

[SpikeyMikey]

Jon: my problem with Smallpox is that this deck is not built to break the symmetry. Any time you run a symmetrical effect, you need to be able to break the symmetry. If this deck had Bloodghast or Flagstones or something, then I'd say go for it but as is, you lose more resources than they do. Duress is, like I said, a judgement call. It depends on how you want the deck to function. I view the deck as a combo win in a suicide shell. My gameplan is to just wreck my opponent's hand and mana until they're way behind the curve. The big difference between this and say Eva is it's got a more compact win and a potentially faster kill. But I say potentially because there's not a huge combo chain like Belcher or AnT so sometimes you'll have perfectly playable hands missing one or both halves of the combo.

You could pump up the chain some with Worldly Tutor or Gamble or whatever but then you're just a slow Belcher. You lose your disruption and move towards a glass cannon with an optimal FT of 3. As it stands now, this deck fits a slot somewhat slower than AnT but also far more resilient. You're in no hurry to win because you've got 27 slots dedicated to disrupting you opponent. With the exception of Zoo, no deck should be able to put a clock on you.

I'm not saying that the deck as it stands now is optimal, I just feel like people are misunderdstanding how the original listing operates. I'm happy about people taking the deck and tweaking it and playing it.

[Jon Stewart]

J As it stands now, this deck fits a slot somewhat slower than AnT but also far more resilient. You're in no hurry to win because you've got 27 slots dedicated to disrupting you opponent. With the exception of Zoo, no deck should be able to put a clock on you.

I understand what you're going for SpikeyMikey. My control combo build, the one that runs...

Thoughtseize
Duress
Cabal Therapy
Hymn to Tourach
Phyrexian Arena
Innocent Blood
Smallpox
Sinkhole
Vindicate
Wasteland

all in the same deck is designed precisely with that same strategy in mind. It devastates your opponents, hand, land and creatures, and takes its sweet time finding the combo piece and comboing off. That's why it only runs 7 ways to get Gamekeeper onto the board. In addition, it's sideboard has stuff like Gadook Teeg, Ethersworm Canonist and other cards to be wished up precisely to help deal with combo strategies that are straight up faster than you.

As for Smallpox not breaking symmetry, I'm not sure where you got that impression. Smallpox does a perfect job of breaking symmetry. Other decks play creatures, you don't. That in it self breaks symmetry and makes the card into basically an edict effect/offbeat removal spell. The other function to blow up lands is not designed to break symmetry, it's useful because it's on theme with your other cards Sinkhole, Vindicate and Wasteland as well as your high land count. Between these things, what you have is a deck that is extremely effective at punishing decks with low land counts.

You learn through your Duress/Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy that you opponent kept a hand with only two lands, and then you see to it that their first land is Sinkholed or Smallpoxed, and their second land Wastelanded, Hymned away or Vindicated. Suddenly they are locked out of the game completely until they see another land. By the time they see another land, odds are, you will see another land destruction spell (your deck plays 16 land destruction effects + 4 Hymns to possibliy discard them, most legacy decks play a very similar number of lands).

And even the function that has you discarding a card, can prove beneficial or not at all hardful to you. You sometimes have an Emrakul in hand that you want nothing more than to discard away. And othertimes, you have far too many lands in hand, or have too many discard spells when both players are already close to top deck mode, and other times you simply have too much removal when there are no creatures left on the board or your opponents hand. Disruption based decks are more prone to being in those situations than decks focused entirely on their gameplan. So this can prove assymetrical as well.

[Jon Stewart]

Right now, I'm fine tuning my living wish board.

Here's what I have so far, what suggestions do you guys have...

1 Gamekeeper
1 Maze of Ith/Kor Haven/Karakas
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Windborn Muse
1 Shriekmaw
1 Wispmare
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Fairie Macabre
1 Gadook Teeg
1 Ethersworm Canonist
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Tombstalker

Is there any card that you guys think that I either should, or shouldn't run in the wishboard?

I feel like this deck needs a solution to Iona naming Black. I don't want to maindeck StP just for that one scenario and I can't afford Karakas. Is there any green or white creature that can be used to kill Iona in the manner that Gatekeeper and Shriekmaw can kill just about everything else.

Also, the one card I don't have about is the Karakas/Maze of Ith. They seem overpriced and not worth getting just for this deck. Do you think I'll be fine just playing Kor Haven instead, or do you think Maze of Ith/Karakas offer a significant advantage over either?

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Right now, I'm fine tuning my living wish board.

Here's what I have so far, what suggestions do you guys have...

1 Gamekeeper
1 Maze of Ith/Kor Haven/Karakas
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Windborn Muse
1 Shriekmaw
1 Wispmare
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Fairie Macabre
1 Gadook Teeg
1 Ethersworm Canonist
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Wickerbough Elder
3 Tombstalker

Is there any card that you guys think that I either should, or shouldn't run in the wishboard?

I feel like this deck needs a solution to Iona naming Black. I don't want to maindeck StP just for that one scenario and I can't afford Karakas. Is there any green or white creature that can be used to kill Iona in the manner that Gatekeeper and Shriekmaw can kill just about everything else.

Also, the one card I don't have about is the Karakas/Maze of Ith. They seem overpriced and not worth getting just for this deck. Do you think I'll be fine just playing Kor Haven instead, or do you think Maze of Ith/Karakas offer a significant advantage over either?

I think you're getting a little too cute with the wish-board. I would take out at least Nighthawk and Tombstalker, because it seems pointless to try to have alternate win-conditions to Wish for, rather than just streamlining your Plan A and adding more disruption. Also, many of the wish-board cards seem to be playing very similar roles the way you have it set up right now, like Gatekeeper/Shriekmaw and Canonist/Gaddock Teeg. I would probably just pick whichever you feel to be the better one out of each of these pairs.

Just remember that running a wish-board doesn't mean you want to have all your sideboard cards be wish targets. If you do this, you actually limit yourself, because there isn't a significant amount of ways that you can side things in if your entire sideboard is one-of targets for Living Wish. It's generally best to limit the wish-board part of the sideboard to 7-10 slots, or less if you can.

[dirtyapes]

@Jon Stewart If you want an answer to Iona in green you could try Elvish Skysweeper. It has synergy with Gamekeeper but it could be too slow to answer her.

[Hawdes]

I actually think that a transformational sideboard is the route to go since "The Game" combo plan seems a bit fragile once everyone know that it's coming their way in game 2 and 3.
While they board in random hate against Emrakul/Gamekeeper/Graveyard hose, we could easily play out as a straight and simple rock deck, the gate, eva green or what not.
We have the shell to do so, or even add in Vampire Hexmage and Marit to the mix.
That's just my two cents... If I would take this deck for a spin, then I would've used a transformational sideboard to knock my opponent off their feet.

The deck idea seems pretty nice and I will sleeve up my own creation and try it out. It just might prove worth while.

The one thing I don't really understand is how a StP or Path can be a problem for this deck... How are ppl even playing this deck? You don't just play a Gamekeeper and then pass priority without a way to sacc him before the opponent gains priority.
That's why the deck should run Phyrexian Tower and Cabal Therapy at least, since sacrifice a creature is a part of the cost and can't be responeded to.
That's why alternatives as Cabal Pit (seen in one list) or other random junk just feels... bad. Other removal as Innocent blood and Smallpox works if they can't respond with StP, Path or any remove from the game removal.
I will just assume that people don't go off without a resolved disruption spell as Duress, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy or the likes.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, hate cards like StP, Path, FoW etc are not a problem at all for this deck. I'm playing 3 Duress, 3 Thoughseize, 4 Cabal Therapy and 4 Hymn. There is no way my opponent is pulling something over on me. The only way they can is with a Brainstorm in response to these cards but it's still really hard for them to hate out the deck.

I can't decide on Sylvan Library vs. Phyrexian Arena vs. Worldly Tutor vs. Sensei's Top. All four cards have their own merits.

Here's what I noticed based on today. Zoo was the toughest matchup I faced today. It's a race, and I eek out a win only about 40-50% of the time but always with only just a couple of life total.

I've also rarely found Sinkhole or the whole LD strategy useful against Zoo.

I'm seriously considering switching to a less LD focused deck like this...

// Lands
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Phyrexian Tower

// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Gamekeeper

// Spells
3 Thoughtseize
4 Innocent Blood
4 Vindicate
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Living Wish
3 Duress
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Worldly Tutor

// Sideboard
1 Gamekeeper
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Shriekmaw
1 Wispmare
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tombstalker
1 Maze of Ith
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Bojuka Bog

But if I do that, I feel like I should just go back down to 21 lands, and 4 Dark Rituals.


I think you're getting a little too cute with the wish-board. I would take out at least Nighthawk and Tombstalker, because it seems pointless to try to have alternate win-conditions to Wish for, rather than just streamlining your Plan A and adding more disruption. Also, many of the wish-board cards seem to be playing very similar roles the way you have it set up right now, like Gatekeeper/Shriekmaw and Canonist/Gaddock Teeg. I would probably just pick whichever you feel to be the better one out of each of these pairs.

You have a point, but I've actually played several games today and the flexibility offered has been extremely neccesary.

Based on the games today, I've already used...

Gatekeeper vs. Progenitus/Emrakul
Shriekmaw vs. random Zoo creatures. Tarmogoyf could have also worked here.
Kitchen Finks vs. Zoo (This was my Nighthawk slot. I was one turn away from winning but needed to gain some life fast.)
Tombstalker vs. Fairie Stompy
Gadook Teeg vs. Landstill (I got rid of their StPs with Cabal Therapy, but Teeg forced them to use their FoW on that rather than on my subsequent Gamekeeper. Teeg also helps vs. Wrath of God and Natural Order)

Gadook Teeg and Canonist serve different roles. Canonist is better vs. combo.

[Hawdes]

Yeah, hate cards like StP, Path, FoW etc are not a problem at all for this deck. I'm playing 3 Duress, 3 Thoughseize, 4 Cabal Therapy and 4 Hymn. There is no way my opponent is pulling something over on me. The only way they can is with a Brainstorm in response to these cards but it's still really hard for them to hate out the deck.


The thing I'm saying is that it should not ever be a problem to go off with a deck that packs X sac effects which cannot be responded to and Y sac effects that the opponent shouldn't be able to respond to due to the Z amount of discard the deck runs.



I've also rarely found Wasteland or the whole LD strategy useful against Zoo.

I'm seriously considering switching to a less LD focused deck like this...


I would rather run a straight GB version instead of GBW, I never want to open up game losses to Wastelands or color screw... As I stated in my previous post, I really think that the transformational sideboard is the way to go, and you could even have some Wish targets amongst those cards. But then again... I might be wrong. I just like surprising my opponent, leaving him with his pants down...
Sinkhole feels out of place, randomly destroy a Land feels kinda "meeh" when we have all the other destructionspells going for us. It's enough with Wasteland and Smallpox, and for those who play Vindicate, it's more than enough.
I would play Wasteland, Smallpox and Maelstrom Pulse in a GB version and unlock 4 slots from Sinkhole to different cards.

[Jon Stewart]

There is nothing in the deck that precludes transforming it into an aggro deck post board.

Look at the creatures I run, everyone of them is extremely efficent, in addition to serving a secondary function.

I think you can find 10+ creatures in the sideboard against any specific matchup that would be potent and very strong against said matchup.

The only exceptions are Wispmare and Magus of the Moat.

I suppose I could cut the Magus of the Moat and perhaps the Maze of Ith for two additonal Tombstalker/Tarmogoyf.

So the deck would have 10-12 really strong creatures it can bring in against any matchup (siding out Emrakul, Gamekeeper and Living Wish) to transform this into an aggro deck.

For reference, those 12 cards that you can bring in against any matchup at all, to turn this into an aggressive deck would be...

2 Tombstalker
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Shriekmaw
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Tarmogoyf

Even if there are 1-2 creatures in that list that you don't feel are worth maindecking against a certain matchup, that still gives you 10 beaters.

For example, against slow control decks lite on creatures, I probably wouldn't bring in Gatekeeper or Shriekmaw, but I would bring in everything else.

Against fast aggro decks, I would probably leave behind Faerie Macabre and Gaddock Teeg, but I would bring in everything else.

[Hawdes]

There is nothing in the deck that precludes transforming it into an aggro deck post board.

Look at the creatures I run, everyone of them is extremely efficent, in addition to serving a secondary function.

I think you can find 10+ creatures in the sideboard against any specific matchup that would be potent and very strong against said matchup.

The only exceptions are Wispmare and Magus of the Moat.

I suppose I could cut the Magus of the Moat and perhaps the Maze of Ith for two additonal Tombstalker/Tarmogoyf.

So the deck would have 10-12 really strong creatures it can bring in against any matchup (siding out Emrakul, Gamekeeper and Living Wish) to transform this into an aggro deck.

For reference, those 12 cards that you can bring in against any matchup at all, to turn this into an aggressive deck would be...

2 Tombstalker
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Shriekmaw
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Tarmogoyf

Even if there are 1-2 creatures in that list that you don't feel are worth maindecking against a certain matchup, that still gives you 10 beaters.

For example, against slow control decks lite on creatures, I probably wouldn't bring in Gatekeeper or Shriekmaw, but I would bring in everything else.

Against fast aggro decks, I would probably leave behind Faerie Macabre and Gaddock Teeg, but I would bring in everything else.

I would opt for Abyssal Persecutor (since the deck already packs X sacrifice spells) but then again, it's a balance between flexibility and consistency.
I would probably run a sideboard option in the lines of:


4 Tarmogoyf
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Dark Confidant (we need the carddraw if we swap to a more Rockish deck)
1 Phyrexian Tower (Wish target if we need a unanswerable sacrifice outlet to go off).


as the Rock/The Gate core, and then add in some much needed spells/creatures into the mix.

I also noticed that you removed your list with "The Gate" transform board.
That main deck list seemed much better than the new The Gate/Eva Green main deck in your post.
I'll come up with my own list later, try it out and post it if it seems successful.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, it's by no means a bad strategy. Your opponent sides out removal for graveyard hate, and you side out your combo and bring in creatures not dependent on your graveyard.

I like it, but I'm really loving the Wish board as well. It has already gotten me out of so many jams.

[Hawdes]

I'm not sure which filter engine I want to go with, Sylvan Library or SDT? Which one is better?

[Jon Stewart]

Meh, I personally prefer the 2/2 split of Phyrexian Arena and Worldly Tutor.

Of those two choices, Sylvan Library is probably better, you only have to pay one extra mana once.

[Jon Stewart]

Someone brought up the possibility of playing a single Ancient Tomb in the board to Wish for when you are stuck at two land and need to cast a Gamekeeper. What do you guys think? Worthwhile or no?

What should I cut from my board for it? Tarmogoyf? I've used it once to cast on the same turn as I had 2 remaing mana only, only four cards in the yard and needed to hold off an attack asap.

God damn I wish I could play 8 Living Wishes, that card is so awesome.

It almost makes me want to play 2 Glittering Wish.

[SpikeyMikey]

I think SDT/Sylvan/Arena/Tutor depends on what the rest of your deck is running. I think that generally speaking, SDT/Sylvan are strongest because of the mana cost (I'm not a fan of tutor) but what clinches it for me is the interaction with Pernicious Deed. Deed is something I feel like I need in order to be able to handle Zoo and Fish (and that's why I don't go to Pulse, which is better at eating hate cards but worse at beating aggro) and Top survives Deed whereas Library and Arena do not.

Jon: I think it sounds worthwhile, but it really comes down to how often you need it. I don't often find myself being 2 mana short, and on those occasions where I'm 1 mana short, Phyrexian Tower is a great land to fetch, since it can also act as my sac engine if I need it to.

[Hawdes]

Only me who feel that the deck is a tad too slow at setting up Gamekeeper milling?
I've run a build with and without rituals, with a different combination of tutors etc, and I still find it slow/difficult to set up Gamekeeper and be bulletproof...
Not to mention that when I do go off, I tend to fizzle the whole deck away and Emrakul is my last card in the deck, bad luck I guess.
There have been many more times where I felt that I'd rather want to go game two so that I can board in my Rock/Gate sideboard, especially against decks running Ioona naming black.
My only chance at stalling that game is Living Wishing for a Maze of Ith, and that is if I get to resolve a Living Wish without them being able to counter.

Any thoughts?

[SpikeyMikey]

That does sound like bad luck. I've had Emrakul as 2nd to last card twice now, but fortunately, I was able to pull out both games. The one, I had to drop Gamekeeper and the next turn wish for Fleshbag Marauder to kill it, so I got beats for 2 in and then beats for 18 the next turn after having drawn the last card in my deck. The other one was against a Rock style deck and he'd done over 5 to himself between fetches and Thoughtseize.

As far as it being slow to set up the mill sometimes, I have had times where I feel like the disruption has done it's job and all I need to draw is a Keeper/Wish to finish it. I usually manage to find a combo piece within a few turns, however. Which can be too long against Fish and Zoo, but if you're having that problem in other matchups like Reanimator or Survival, perhaps you should consider running Skeletal Scrying? The problem with B/G is that it doesn't have ridiculous dig power with Brainstorm/Ponder, but Scrying is like a FoF for us, and with all the discard and LD, you'll have plenty of things in your yard to munch with it. I just don't run it because I don't have any issues with midrange, aggro control or control. I have issues with aggro (and I suppose the hyper-aggro end of aggro control). I'm considering adding blue for Lim-Dul's Vault as was suggested earlier, I just want to get a good testing base for the stock deck before I make any changes so that I can accurately see what the changes do to the matchups.

[Hawdes]

I've been testing and thinking some lately... The conslusion I've come to is that the deck lacks draw/filter power (read blue). It also feels that relying on 3 cards + tutors to get Emrakul in play (requires him to be in my deck) feels very poor.
Therefore I've been checking out some other possabilities to cheat Emrakul in play. There are the obvious one in blue, Show and Tell, which will give us added draw power and disruption instead of the black.
I've also found cards like Sneak Attack, ppl try to cheat emrakul in and giving him haste, why not sneak him in with the obvious enchantment?

I will try out a combination of these colors and see where I end up...

[SpikeyMikey]

The thing with both Sneak and SnT is that you have to have Emrakul in hand to use either. Otherwise, they're dead cards. Can you speed up the combo of the deck? Of course. But you do so at the cost of resiliency. When you start cutting control cards, you edge towards a bad version of Belcher. Glass cannon combo has not historically been strong in modern Legacy. As the deck stands now, you have 1 true dead card, Emrakul himself. You have 3 combo enablers in the Gamekeepers. You've got a combo chain of 4 cards, leaving more slots for disruption and control. Adding more dead cards seems weak.