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Pact
05-12-2010, 11:30 PM
Hi, I wanted to share this deck that I've created. Personally, the reason why I like the concept of the deck is that it breaks one of the 2 most fundamental rules of deckbuilding, which is that you cannot have more than 4 copies of a card in a deck. The fact that there's a card like thrumming stone to interact with the rats in such an unfair way is also so key. Here's the deck list:

4 scrubland
4 flooded strand
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 vault of whispers

20 relentless rats

4 thrumming stone
4 enlightened tutor
4 lotus petal
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual

sb:

4 leyline of the void
4 chalice of the void
3 engineered plague
4 defense grid

The deck has a very simple gameplan: unleash a relentless amount of rats. You abuse the unique interaction that exists between thrumming stone and relentless rats to put a very large amount of rats into play, all of which acts as lords for each other. This gives you a large amount of rats, each usually dwarfing any goyfs on the other side of the playing field, to threaten lethal damage in one swing.

Because thrumming stone causes spells that you control to ripple on casting and not resolution, this circumvents traditional counterspells as countering the initial rat does not stop it from rippling into more rats to cast for free. Despite costing 5, it's very normal for you to drop the stone turn 2 or 3.

The deck can consistently drop a stone on turn 2 or 3. You have virtually 8 copies of the stone by turn 2 because each etutors in your opening grip might as well be a stone as you can play it at end of opponent's first turn. You have 8 lands that adds +2. So to have the stone and be able to pay the 5 mana for it by turn 2, you would need 1 of 8 copies of the stone, 1 of 8 2 mana lands, a land, and 2 more mana that you can grab from a combination of 4 dark rits (+2), 4 cabal rits (+1), and 4 petals (+1). It happens fairly often and your opponent's reaction every time is priceless.

Also, depending on the hand you've drawn and the matchup, you may decide to play rats in a more fair fashion. It's very possible to drop a rat every turn from the very first turn until you empty your grip. Again, because each rat acts as a lord, this is actually more dangerous to your opponent than it may seem; 3 rats is actually 12 points of damage.


Card selection:


20 rats: The heart of the deck. I'm sure someone could come up with the math for the optimum number of rats in the deck to ensure hitting rats on ripples but I haven't done it. 20 seems like a solid number as it's a very good number for blue sources for fow, maybe bad logic I don't know.
4 stones, 4 etutor: The stone is your combo piece and each enlightened tutor is another virtual copy of the stone. By having 4 of each, it's almost as if you have 8 stones in your deck by turn 2 because you can enlightened tutor for the stone at the end of your opponent's first turn.

4 dark rits, 4 cabal rits, 4 petals: These are your accelerators. If you've played belcher before, this will come to you very naturally. Think of these as ways to get to your target of 5 mana for the stone. A dark ritual is a +2 while the cabals and the petals are +1. You will rarely have threshold for the cabals and the petals can be targets for etutor if you have stone already and need an extra mana.
4 tombs, 4 cities: +2.

4 scrubland, 4 flooded: Scrubland gives you access to etutor. As much as this deck would like to be mono black, there is no other way to have a stone in your hand as consistenly as enlightened tutor. The black tutors are either banned in legacy or too slow. The fetches can be anything with black or white but I like flooded or polluted because you can bluff blue, this might slow them down a little as they try to play around daze or counterspells.
4 urborg: These fixes your black mana because rats are double black and that can be hard sometimes with tombs and cities. These can also save you a little life as you can use your fetches and tombs for black without fetching them or shocking yourself, though it's still sometimes useful to tap the tomb for colorless to play around daze.
1 vault: Another concession to try to fix your mana. If you see that you will need the 2nd black source, you can etutor for this. It's also the 61st card so you can cut an urborg for it since you never want to see urborgs in multiples.

The sideboard are all enchantments or artifacts to take advantage of the enlightened tutors in the deck.
4 leyline: Your graveyard hate of choice since you're black. If you need it really early like say vs dredge, you can mull into it.
4 chalice: Your combo hate, though this is your most versatile hate as you can easily hate out 0, 1, or 2 really early on as you have a lot of accelerators.
3 engineered plague: A nod to goblins, merfolks or any other tribals. Also randomly hates stuff like thopter/sword combo etc.
4 defense grid: Your hate for fow, daze, spell pierce targetting your stone. Landing a grid will almost ensure landing a stone.


But I'll be honest, this deck isn't going to win any tournaments any time soon. It's not a good deck. It's not versatile. It's a strictly worse version of belcher as both decks accelerate like crazy into 1 or 2 gameplans with almost no protection. Only difference is that belcher's fundamental turn is turn 1 whereas this deck's is 2-3.

On the upside, the deck is hilarious and amazing when it goes off and is fairly budget with only the scrubland and flooded being money. You can replace them with the ravnica white black shock dual and marsh flats without really hurting the deck.

DragoFireheart
05-12-2010, 11:38 PM
You need some sort of disruption.

You run black: pack some discard to protect your combo.

kicks_422
05-12-2010, 11:45 PM
And you can also run Desperate Research.

kinda
05-12-2010, 11:48 PM
You might want to run chrome mox over lotus petal...and yeah i'd cut e-tutor for desperate research. Harder to get mauled by tempo decks if you're monocolored... And I'd cut cabal ritual for thoughtseize...

Combo Winter
05-12-2010, 11:55 PM
I acctually think this can be a decent deck for competative tourneys like tier 3 or so. But I think you are make some poor card choices. Chrome mox Tomb and dark rit should be enough accel for thrumming stone you are also despreatly lacking the early game discard to push through stone. In fact all you early game spells are -1 Card disadvantange. You basically need to resolve thrumming stone in every match you win. Here is what i would play. I havent tested at all of course cards like dark confidant or trinisphere chalice plan should be looked at. Also Your mana base is terrible you get wrecked by wasteland. Also this build lets you fake a black aggro deck as oposed to playing a funky mana base and asking people to leave counter magic open and then go all in on a 5 mana bomb

4 dark rit
4 thrumming stone
4 cabal therapy
3 jitte

22 rats

4 chrome mox
4 wasteland
4 aencient tomb
12 swamp
1 urborg

or


2 urborg
4 tomb
4 city
10
4 chrome mox

4 3sphere
4 chalice
3 brainspoil (obvously grim tutors in you can get them as there is a huge differance post board)
4 stone

21 rats

Vacrix
05-13-2010, 12:00 AM
God this has been done so many times. I agree with Kicks. Desperate Research looks pretty good, as does Spoils of the Vault. Spoils can find you Thrumming stone for 'must win now' situations against a faster combo, and at worst gets you a rat off the top.

tprisbe
05-13-2010, 02:24 AM
Aether Vial? It seems with that many creatures of the same casting cost, this should be almost an auto-include, as an alternative to Thrumming Stone to get more rats out faster. Especially if you decide to go with Desperate Research to get more rats in hand.

Pact
05-13-2010, 04:38 AM
I agree with adding discard to protect the combo. -4 cabals +4 thoughtseize.

I don't agree with the chrome moxes, which I've tried before but didn't like. While it gives a permanent black source, there are so many times that it's worse than petal when you're trying to go off. You would never pitch dark rit because it's a +2 and chrome only gives +1. Pitching a cabal would mean getting the same +1 for 2 cards as opposed to 1. And strangely enough, there are a lot of times when you only have 1 rat in your hand and you need it to combo off so you can't pitch it.

I don't even know what to say about the vials. They're so incredibly slower than the stones and they don't fit the gameplan of winning off the combo at all. It's even slower than just dropping rats the fair way with this deck since it has so many accelerators.

Desperate research and spoils are both interesting in that they are both black and would let me stabilize the manabase, cutting duals, fetches, urborgs, vault for basics. I'm worried though about the part where they can remove so many cards from your deck potentially hurting the rat density.
The stone is so nice because it does nothing but help the rat density not only in your deck but at the top of your deck, putting all the chaff on the bottom, and tutor didn't hurt this. I'm also worried that desperate research can whiff in which case it could be game over because then your hand won't do much or that spoils will take a huge chunk of my life that is already trying to accommodate ancient tombs and thoughtseizes.

I suppose I weigh in these new risks vs the stability of a better manabase?

Edit: lol @ playing confidant when a third of the deck is at 3 cmc and lol @ jitte.

DragoFireheart
05-13-2010, 09:59 AM
There is another problem with this deck unfortunately. A single Extirpate will get rid of all of the rats. Also, the vial is there as a backup plan in case your Thrumming stone gets countered or blown up by a Qasali Pridemage or what have you. It's also far too easy for this deck to simply get a hand full of rats and lands, which will cause you to lose to the format. Maybe run some draw like Night's Whisper to find your thrumming stones?

Mystical_Jackass
05-13-2010, 01:21 PM
-5 Lands
-4 Thoughtseize
-4 Lotus Petal
-?

+4 Chrome Mox
+4 Trinisphere
+4 Chalice
+4 Dark Confidant

I think that should be your core. Keep ritual, basically you want that turn1 Trinisphere to hit at all cost. Chalice1 and 2 can really shut down key spells in most of the competetive decks out there. Always Chalice 1 if going first game1, it just messes up lackey, nactl/ape, vial, SDT, brainstorms, ritual/reanimate, bolts, removal, etc. After you figure out more about how their deck works, such as if they run Pridemage, Hull Breach.. maybe switch it up. In rare situations like against another Stompy/Stax deck or one that runs a weird curve just SB out.

I've heard of this combo before, I think this deck can be a fun and competetive. I don't think I'd worry about extirpate, 'cause honestly who runs extirpate these days? I love the card, I just don't think I see people use it often these days. :smile:

dahcmai
05-13-2010, 07:16 PM
You can always add in a Doomsday stack in the middle of the deck (without using Doomsday) so when you get hit by an Extirpate, you just combo out on them. Be amusing at the least to tendrils someone to death for Extirpating you.

Pact
05-14-2010, 04:59 AM
lol It's true that this deck folds to extirpate but, like mystical said, I'm not really worried since no one really runs it.

Echoing truth is a bit more relevant threat but you can easily play around it by not overextending (triggering rippling more than you need for lethal). Countertop floating 3 on top of their deck is the most relevant and hurts just as hard as extirpate, forcing you to concede on the spot.

I'm not a fan of the vial because, like I said before, it's simply slower than just playing out rats using the accelerators in your deck which is a better plan B if your stone gets answered. Hopefully though, you've taken their stone answers away with the maindeck thoughtseizes.

I never really considered putting the combo into a stompy shell with chalice/trinisphere. Seems like it could work, though there's a certain exhilirating feeling about comboing into the stone and then comboing out rats that I would miss a lot if the deck went that way.

ykpon
05-14-2010, 11:35 AM
Stone + Trinisphere isn't the best combo ever, is it?

Kangaxx
05-14-2010, 12:22 PM
I'd suggest Grim Tutor over E. Tutor and cut white making the manabase more stable. It might also be a good idea to include the Helm of Obedience / Leyline combo in the SB since people do run extirpate more than you think, and Moat is somewhat of a prevalent card ad well.

Pact
05-14-2010, 03:53 PM
Stone + Trinisphere isn't the best combo ever, is it?

Nope. ^^