Deckbuilder's Kit

[(nameless one)]

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=691cVQl8_U0&feature=player_embedded

Its that new deckbuilder's kit. If only all the rares in the packs with this kit were as good as his.

[Bardo]

I wouldn't call it a cash-grab, since no one needs this (unlike, say, Thoughtseize). If I were just getting into the game, this seems like a nice gift.

Retitled thread.

[Ozymandias]

If the MSRP on this is 20 bucks, then instead of two packs you're getting a ton of basic lands and common filler. For a beginning player, that seems an acceptable tradeoff so you can, you know, build decks. You could maybe even build two decks to play against each other, which makes it a great opener for tounrey magic.

Also, did Erwin buys this get this as a promo from Wizards, or get it as a promo from SCG? Because my inner conspiracy theorist is having a bad case of the paraeidolias.

[(nameless one)]

I got the video off of SCG's site.

Isn't Intro Packs and Duel Decks made for beginners anyways? I guess 4 packs and a pauper tournament pack for $20 doesn't hurt.

[Aggro_zombies]

I got the video off of SCG's site.

Isn't Intro Packs and Duel Decks made for beginners anyways? I guess 4 packs and a pauper tournament pack for $20 doesn't hurt.
Not necessarily. That is, they aren't marketed specifically to players looking to enter the game, and are designed to be self-contained to boot. Basically, but making something open-ended like this, you encourage new players to buy more cards to flesh out whatever deck ideas they get from the stuff they open. I mean, yeah, if you buy a Duel Deck, you have a fully functional deck straight out of the box, but there's less pressure to go out and buy new stuff to improve it since it's already pretty decent. If the best you can build out of this is Steaming_Pile_of_Jank.deck, then you're probably going to be motivated to front the cash or trade fodder to do something about it.

Think of it another way: it's sort of like the difference between buying a bag of Legos, and buying a model airplane kit. The model airplane is what it is, but the Legos can go together in lots of different ways - something that appeals to people with any creativity whatsoever.

[mchainmail]

it fills a niche that wizards currently offer products for.

[Penguinizer]

I don't think it's that bad. For 20 bucks, you're essentially getting 4 boosters and a pile of meh commons and uncommons for 8 dollars. It's good for those starting out.

[Amon Amarth]

This is great for new players. I have to keep this in mind when I'm getting people into this game.

[denial]

almost makes me want to buy the 4 packs I want and then spend $8 an a bunch of cheap ass commons I want online. honestly, it just looked like a bunch of shit. I totally thought that was a nice ass deck box in the middle, apparently it was just a spacer. also, I was waiting for him to randomly come across a tropical island or something. sigh. lava axe, they should have just called it the casual players jank kit. with a pitch like "build a kitchen table deck with craw wurms, so you can get your ass smoked by legacy decks and then bitch about how net decking sucks and there is no honor in the game anymore". or something.

:eyebrow:

[Jak]

almost makes me want to buy the 4 packs I want and then spend $8 an a bunch of cheap ass commons I want online. honestly, it just looked like a bunch of shit. I totally thought that was a nice ass deck box in the middle, apparently it was just a spacer. also, I was waiting for him to randomly come across a tropical island or something. sigh. lava axe, they should have just called it the casual players jank kit. with a pitch like "build a kitchen table deck with craw wurms, so you can get your ass smoked by legacy decks and then bitch about how net decking sucks and there is no honor in the game anymore". or something.

:eyebrow:

Way to miss the point. Obviously the tournament players (and probably even the casual ones) would have no use for this. It is for beginners. Like, instead of getting that 8th Edition Core Set crap like I did, you get this which is actually of great use. It teaches new players how to play the game, it gives them a bunch of cards that are decent to build playable decks, lands, and some boosters to make it more of an experience.

[denial]

sorry, I thought a starter deck and a rulebook did that.

[MMogg]

Part of the problem I have with the concept behind this product is that beginners aren't and shouldn't be deckbuilders. I'm admittedly 100% shaded by my own personality and experience, but I think a new player should come to terms first and foremost with the game and how it works and then can move on to deckbuilding, only after some real world play experience and understanding of the game. In that respect I agree with denial that a regular pre-con would be better than this toolbox.

If they really want to do an intro to deckbuilding they could always do a series of precons that include a deckbuilding guide that not only explains how the deck works, but also the different ways the player can then augment the deck (hopefully more than one way) and give some possible suggestions of cards to acquire for that purpose.

How I learned was with precons and then paying attention to what more experienced players were playing and why they were playing it. If you think about how you started to play, does anyone here think this toolbox would have been a great starting point for yourself? :eyebrow:

[denial]

they could always make precons that werent utter dog shit. I have no idea when the last time I saw a precon decklist and said wow, I like this theme, I want to add more cards to this and build a better deck.... wait, ok, I can, the onslaught block elf precon. back before elves somehow turned into a combo deck and were just great for casual aggro. but nothing since, and thats why I dont buy them anymore. I heard that tempest/saga block precons were the shit, but I never got to play with them so I dont know. I might like this product better if it was done more from the FTV or VS series angle and contained good cards from older sets in it, not just a bunch of new trash. you can "build" decks all you want, but if you've never played with a finely tuned deck, you really dont have any idea wtf you're doing. its just going to be a collection of 60 bad ideas all jammed together.

[Bardo]

How I learned was with precons and then paying attention to what more experienced players were playing and why they were playing it. If you think about how you started to play, does anyone here think this toolbox would have been a great starting point for yourself? :eyebrow:

Definitely. I learned to play with a Revised started and a few packs of Fallen Empires. Beginner deck-building isn't rocket surgery. Find the cool cards you like, jam in too few (or too many) lands and off you go.

MtG is a game -- unless you're trying to be a pro, there's no other reason to play than to have fun. Beginner decks might be shit when viewed through the lens of a competitive player, but that doesn't mean they're not a blast to play. I'm not sure how the cards from the Deckbuilder's Kit were collated (4 Terramorphic expanse, etc.), but it seems they're trying to engineer some "controlled chaos" into the mix, so that you can have a very vague semblance of a "real deck" (mainly, synergy and mana curve).


you can "build" decks all you want, but if you've never played with a finely tuned deck, you really dont have any idea wtf you're doing. its just going to be a collection of 60 bad ideas all jammed together.

Sure, but who cares? That's like saying you have no idea how to drive until you've driven a Ferrari GT. Obviously, that's bullshit.

[denial]

Sure, but who cares? That's like saying you have no idea how to drive until you've driven a Ferrari GT. Obviously, that's bullshit.

driving a Ferrari GT is nice, but at the same time they dont need to teach people how to drive in a Geo Metro either. my point is to give them a better collection of tools to start with, not just random crap. maybe have 5 premade half decks of each color in there, but like cheaper good decks. ones that contain actual 4 ofs, instead of that 1 of 2 of crap they normally do with precons. tell them to combine one color with another, so they can see the strengths and weaknesses of each color and how the colors interact with each other. they need to go a lot more into manabases and mana curves than having a paragraph here and a quote there. there should be actual graphs and pie charts with thorough explanations. its one thing to teach someone how to play magic, its another to teach them to actually be a good player.

[Vacrix]

Isn't Intro Packs and Duel Decks made for beginners anyways? I guess 4 packs and a pauper tournament pack for $20 doesn't hurt.
Yeah but you could buy a half playable Burn deck for 20 bucks.

[evilgorrilaz]

Yeah but you could buy a half playable Burn deck for 20 bucks.

Yeah but how fun is that burn deck? This isn't marketed towards most players. This is something to try to get people into the game.

[Sims]

Honestly, I don't see this as a bad idea, and i'd probably buy one for the Jace/Chandra/Nissa/Sorin box that it comes with.

You think I bought an Anthologies box for the decks? Give me the box.

[Vacrix]

Yeah but how fun is that burn deck? This isn't marketed towards most players. This is something to try to get people into the game.
lol. Burn IS fun.... for the guy playing it. I've rarely seen an unhappy burn player. Every victory is that much more amazing because they know that their deck is a piece of crap, and every loss is expected. :P

[Soldar]

I'm looking forward to this being a sealed format. You walk away with a box, some random staples (Duress, Bolt, Ponder) and whatever you open from commons.

A lot of newer players need to walk before they run, and building from a full Standard pool is a daunting task, let alone a full Legacy pool. I think this idea is perfect, since it even gets a lot of lands in the players hands, alongside a variety of sets. I'd need to personally go through one of these (I don't want to go through a 40 minute video, but I briefly watched some of the unboxing), but from what I saw, if someone were thinking about buying a fat pack (MSRP 34.99) versus 2 of these (MSRP 19.99x2), it looks like a lot more value from 2 of these, for the 5 dollar difference.

[dahcmai]

I think it's a good idea. I would have loved this back when I started. If all of them give you cards like what was in this box, this is a great idea. I would recommend any new player pick one up. Lightning bolts, Duress, Giant Growth and most of the other cards are just flat useful and not really filler. It's filler crap to us since we have large collections and only play hard core decks, but to a person learning and only playing tabletop magic, this is a godsend.

Lots of land, a small box to put your cards in, tips on deck building, and a good assortment of actually useful cards? Is anyone seriously bashing this? Sure, any tournament player will have no use, but it's damned good for new players. It's really useful for a starting player who has none of the usual chaff people toss when they draft. Even better is it forces new players to build decks with cards that are already half decent. Ok, craw Wurm isn't great, but I remember playing with that thing thinking it was awesome when it came out too. So even Craw wurm serves a purpose.

Just because you can't use it and could care less about what's in it doesn't make it a bad idea at all. It's a damned good way to get some generally decent stuff into the hands of people who aren't going to know better. It's a hell of a lot better than what new players have to deal with now, which is getting the leftovers of drafts, whatever the store doesn't mind giving away, or leftovers of packs people didn't care about. So with that in mind, new players are playing with the absolute worst cards possible. This is nice to see they will have something to get a better start off of.

I don't expect new players to automatically start building Merfolk or Dredge and play amazingly well. They need to have that time period where they play with friends and get used to the game in friendly tabletop games. It's way more fun and that's where you learn the game in a no so competitive environment. I would not want anyone I had just taught the game to go into tournaments right off the bat. It's discouraging and degrading to them to toss them into the pit and fight it out being beat over and over again. Have some good friendly games where you teach them and they will stick with it. Everybody was at the point at one time.

It's well worth it's price to a new player. Cashgrab? Pffft, more like let's see how many jaded tournament players won't see past their nose while helping people who need it program.

[Nightmare]

I don't know if any of you remember it, but during 4th edition they had a two-player intro pack, that came with two semi-random decks. It may even have been non-random. Either way, that was a great tool for those of us just getting interested in the game at the time, or if we wanted to teach other people how to play. This is in the same vein, and I think its a great idea for Wizards to expand their play base.

[Afro]

I don't know if any of you remember it, but during 4th edition they had a two-player intro pack, that came with two semi-random decks. It may even have been non-random. Either way, that was a great tool for those of us just getting interested in the game at the time, or if we wanted to teach other people how to play. This is in the same vein, and I think its a great idea for Wizards to expand their play base.

Agreed. When I first saw someone playing the game and they taught me the basics I went out and bought 20 some odd packs of homelands (frown town) and was dissapointed that I couldn't even build decks because of land. I picked one of those intro packs up and was a happy Nub. These are nothing but good for the game.

[dahcmai]

I learned the hard way with Legends, Fallen Empires, and packs of The Dark. What a rough start I had. Though I did experience the awesomeness of being a nub and playing with Underworld Dreams against people just as bad. What a horrible card to play on people back then. I remember the revised box set, but never had one. I didn't like white bordered cards back then either.