T1.5: Mill powered by Zendikar

[GoboLord]

Hey everyone,

I experimented with this list:

Lands: [20]
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Tundra
2 Undergound Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats

Mill: [12-15]
4 Hedron Crab
4 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
(3 Jace Beleren / Jace the Mind Sculptor)

Removal: [8]
4 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares

Counter [12]
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Daze

Stuff: [5-8]
4 Brainstorm
1 Sensei's Diving Top
(3 Jace Beleren / Jace the Mind Sculptor)

Sideboard [15]
3 Spell Pierce
3 Hydroblast
4 Ley-Line of the Void
3 Submerge
1 Rushing River
1 Echoing Truth


I dont want to waste time on how this idea came up; here is how it works:

1. There are many fetchlands in Legacy decks. Thats why I play Archieve Traps.

2. If I have the trap and myOPP doesnt fetch anymore I can "force" him to do so by playing PtE

3. I play 10 fetchlands which is good for mana fixing and for Hedron Crab of course. With Hedron Crab in play each fetchland means -6 cards in my OPPs deck. Multiple Crabs are just killer, because each landrop means -6, and each fetchland -12 cards (which is a 4th of the deck).

4. Daze supports Hedron Crab as well, cause it ensures land-drops.

5. I use Mind Funeral in late game. After several cards are milled, after my OPP fetched several times and after I hit his creatures with PtE he should have 6-8 lands in deck (depending on OPPs deck of course). At this point in time Mind Funeral usually takes 15-18 cards.

6. I am not sure wether to play Jace Beleren or Mindculptor. The truth is I didnt test the later much, because I rarely have 4 or 5 lands. I use Jace as card supply and he appears as a huge threat for my OPPs who are afraid of his 3rd abilty. Therefore he also is an extra shield for my lifes.

7. Most removal spells are useless against me, sice I only play 4 creatures (which hardly anybody would "waste" a removal for).

Here are some comments of matchups I tested so far:

ANT:
Nearly an auto-win.
They run into my Trap with Mystical Tutor, Fetchlands, Infernal Tutor. Archieve Trap against after a Mystical tutor hurts the most.
My Crab is always save, cause they dont run removal.
Mind Funeral is killer as well because they play about 15 lands.
At last I run more counters than any other deck and after g1 I have 8 slots to fill in with cards from SB.

Bant (Survival, Countertop, Progenitus)

Survival: Pretty good match up.
They cant avoid running into my trap with Survival of the Fittest online.
They dont play too many creatures while I play 8 removals.
After G1 I have Ley-Line and Submerge.
Iona on blue doesnt stop my StP/PtE, and Iona on white doesnt keep me from milling.

CounterTop: If they dont get their Countertop online I most certainly win.
They dont play too many creatures which I can remove easily
After G1 After G1 I have Ley-Line and Submerge.

Progenitus: Progenitus gets back to Lib everytime he gets milled; that sucks. But I still can mill him until only Progentus remains.
If they get Progenitus into play, I lose.

Dredge, Reanimator, Loam (the "Gravediggers")

The worst thing about this match-up is, that I help them with their strategy. The best thing is, that they help me too.
If I cant handle their threads they win (sometimes with incredible speed). If I can: I win. The threads I have to handle are: Dread Return, Breakthrough, Reanimate, Exhume, Chalice of the Void and Dark Life from the Loam.

Goblins, Zoo, Merfolk: Nearly unwinable

They either have more creatures than I can handle or have burn spells or dont fetch and have Aether Vial.

Summary:

- strong against creature-light decks
- strong against removal-heavy decks
- strong against land-light decks
- strong against decks that look their library often
- weak against aggro (in genral I think)
- weak against burn
- weak against creature-heavy decks


Comments?:cool:

[Vacrix]

I don't see the point of running x8 MD spot removal if your matchup is already unwinnable against decks where you need the spot removal like Goblins, Zoo and Merfolk. You might as well try to run sweepers instead.

Auto-win against ANT? Consider that there are Storm combo variants: ANT w/ DD is significantly harder. They can take their time to set up with Cantrips, removing all the protection for your hand so they can go off comfortably with Doomsday. Also, keep in mind that you are basically giving your opponent Threshold, making Cabal Ritual very powerful, very early in the game: one Archive Trap after a fetch could set up a turn 2 Ad Nauseum.

[GoboLord]

I don't see the point of running x8 MD spot removal if your matchup is already unwinnable against decks where you need the spot removal like Goblins, Zoo and Merfolk. You might as well try to run sweepers instead.

Auto-win against ANT? Consider that there are Storm combo variants: ANT w/ DD is significantly harder. They can take their time to set up with Cantrips, removing all the protection for your hand so they can go off comfortably with Doomsday. Also, keep in mind that you are basically giving your opponent Threshold, making Cabal Ritual very powerful, very early in the game: one Archive Trap after a fetch could set up a turn 2 Ad Nauseum.

I dont see the point of not running them. They are the best removals you can get and they dont cause disadvantage in this deck. Sweepers usually cost 3+ mana. Have you any advice which one to play?
I didnt test against DDANT so far, thats why I didnt mention it. But you are right: this one is not an auto-win.

[Vacrix]

Well given that your aggro matchups are bad, you're game plan might be better if you try playing sweepers. They might be the best removal spells but they only remove one creature at a time and you often have to deal with a team of guys, not one dude. You could try playing Moat or something. Then you don't need to worry about creatures in the future, and just save your countermagic for removal @ Moat. Also, I think the possibilities of Jace + Island Sanctuary are hilarious. Who needs a draw step when you have Jace (who draws)?

[Roman Candle]

Ranger of Eos is nuts in Hedron Crab decks. Seriously.

EDIT: So is Knight of the Reliquary.

[Vacrix]

If you want to abuse Crab, Crop Rotation looks much stronger than KoTR. It can fetch tech like Tabernacle too.

[Poron]

a mill deck without black in my opinion is way too much suboptimal to begin with....

[Moczoc]

Path to Exile does NOT force your opponent to fetch a land -> [...] may search [...]
so, as soon as he knows what your playing he can force you to wait for 5 lands so play the Trap :/

And what is the point of not playing Glimpse? It has the best cmc/mill ratio among the mill spells

I testet the Crab but it got sworded too often being the only creature, also it is a bad topdeck.

If you look for a way to support Mind Funeral try Extirpate, it usually takes 3 cards out of the opponents library for 1 mana and has a massive synergy with Mind Funeral played on a Fetchland! (And randomly wins you games against combo ;))

[GoboLord]

a mill deck without black in my opinion is way too much suboptimal to begin with....
nobody thought of leaving out B


Path to Exile does NOT force your opponent to fetch a land -> [...] may search [...]
so, as soon as he knows what your playing he can force you to wait for 5 lands so play the Trap :/

And what is the point of not playing Glimpse? It has the best cmc/mill ratio among the mill spells

I testet the Crab but it got sworded too often being the only creature, also it is a bad topdeck.

If you look for a way to support Mind Funeral try Extirpate, it usually takes 3 cards out of the opponents library for 1 mana and has a massive synergy with Mind Funeral played on a Fetchland! (And randomly wins you games against combo ;))

I know that it doesnt force him. Thats why I wrote
"forces" not forces

I thought of this strategy as creating too much disadvantage considering board positions. You play 8 cards (Trap and FUneral) that create card-disadvantage and dont do ANYTHING to improve your board position. 12 would be too much. Thats why I dont play glimpse.

Extirpate is a point. So are Island Sanctuary, Tabernacle and Ranger of Eos. Any examples of how you would bring them in a good/balanced list?

[Vacrix]

a mill deck without black in my opinion is way too much suboptimal to begin with....
Agreed. If anyone want to play a deck like this, you are better off playing Solidarity or Spring Tide. Or you could always play Painter/Grindstone.

His build would work though. The problem is that he lacks good sweepers.