[Deck] Captain America: Urw_Counterstandstill

[jazzykat]

I've created another mutt that has preliminarily been testing very well. I was inspired by the power of Van Phanel's Ur Dreadstill sideboard and my experience at my local tournament this weekend using Grim Lavamancers.

// Lands
2 [A] Tundra
1 [U] Underground Sea
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [JGC] Mishra's Factory
4 [U] Volcanic Island
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [BD] Island (3)

// Creatures
4 [JGC] Grim Lavamancer
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
3 [MOR] Vendilion Clique

// Spells
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 [R] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 2 [TE] Perish

Why not Dreadstill? I found this past weekend that while the nought could just win you the game, you could also just get 2 for 1ed. I also found Standstill to be less than awesome at times because they would play a hierarch or merfolk would play a vial and then you had a completely dead card in your hand (their vial also stops CB). The Grim Lavancers burned away so many creatures it was quite amazing. He singlehandedly made Standstill much better.

The name? Grim Lavamancer (Lavamang) is one of the best creatures in the format. Due to a large part of his effort we can still play slow control decks (and that's what America wants?). He is like Captain America preserving my magical playstyle preference!

The decks biggest common enemy is still probably a resolved Tarmogoyf. When I had no white in the deck this Sunday I needed to use 1 of my 4 Spell Snares or a force to stop him early. Rhox War Monk and Tombstalker are the other creatures that don't die to a bolt or Lavamang and it is too hopeful to always have a bolt and an activation. I grudgingly added white and the mana base creaked and groaned but the StP's seem to be worth it. With StP there is just about nothing they play creature wise on the first/second turn, that you can't remove so you can drop your standstill. Also, you can just drop your CB/Top if you have it in your hand and worry about the creature on turn 3.

I think that the deck's largest strengths are:
1. Advance it's gameplan to control the board, while getting a Standstill and/or CB/Top down to help control the game.
2. Lavamancer does a lot to nullify Turn 1 Aether Vial which pretty much ruins cb/top Standstill decks.
3. All of the creatures tend to produce real or virtual card advantage in this deck
4. Run "The best sideboard in the game"

What I'm concerned about:
1. This pile of a manabase. The white could obviously go to more basics and just play bolt?
2. Is it set up to power through a combo deck (AdNT and reanimator?)
3. Potentially going to time. Opponents can be either stubborn or strategically so. This deck doesn't kill terribly fast but it takes control of the board and they don't know they've lost.
4. This deck made total sense to me but given the cards in it I can imagine it may be difficult to play.

This deck has been testing incredibly well against a wide spectrum of MWS random decks (some T1, some rogue, some crap). I would really like you guys to pick this up and give it a try and let me know what you think. I will try to get back here often so that we can see if we can get this to a solid T1/T1.5.

[Philipp2293]

If you cut swords (and white) entirely, I'm not sure if bolts are enough, as you'll face lots of troubles if an early goyf resolves. I think you could cut white and replace swords with maybe a split between bolts and something like threads of disloyality maybe.

[Nelis]

How about a Basilisk Collar? Combos nicely with Lavamang and is tutorable with Trinket Mage. If you add a couple of Bolts too you can worry a bit less about Tarmogoyf (in Zoo). Getting rid of his early drops before they do damage gives you more breathing room when there's a Goyf staring at you from acros the table. Threads isn't a bad idea either because it adds some more 3 drops for your counterbalance as well.

[obituary 95]

this deck semes extremly intresting ill give it a go.at first glance without playtesting my only real recomendation is maybee taking out underground sea for something else maybe a basic or artifact land.i would also suggest that you use mind harness in the board, i personally think that it shows real promise in legacy , i mean everyone is playing goyf.

[Mr. Forsberg]

I have been tinkering with a similar deck for a while. I have taken the deck in a different direction, though. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to try the deck out yet, but I think that it looks pretty solid on paper at least.

Here's the list:

MainDeck (60)

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
4 Mutavault

Creatures
2 Sower of Temptation
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Trinket Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Spells
3 Counterbalance
2 Basilisk Collar
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare

Sideboard(15)
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Spell Pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Mind Harness
2 Meekstone
1 Engineered Explosives


I don't really have time to discuss the card choices right now, since I've got to get to class, but I thought I'd post the list anyway to show the direction I've taken with the deck. I might come back later and update my post with card choices.

[jazzykat]

I've been testing a lot and I've made some observations

The manabase looks terrible on paper but it has been pretty ok in practice. I cut a waste for a Tundra and that seems ok. I really don't want to loose my progenitus out by cutting the sea.

This deck needs StP. No other solution for Tarmogoyf is going to cut it.

The list needs more 2 drops for CB. I am open to suggestions. I will say this though, that the spell snares do help to bridge the gap instead of being force food and the 7 3cmc cards are not surprisingly kinda awesome given that Grip, KotR, Firespout,etc. are 3 cmc. Alternatively given that we play only CB and Standstill as 2 drops EE becomes relatively lopsided at 2.

Vendillion Clique is awesome. However he often gets stuck in my hand as I keep holding mana back for counters. He is the most pitched card.

All my creatures are wizards(Really!). is there a way to leverage this?

Firespout wipes out my guys too. I think I can replace them with Spell Pierces

SOMETIMES I don't fill up my yard fast enough to burn something with Lavamang every turn. I also play a crucible so I would like to ideally keep at least a fetch and maybe a waste in the yard. Do we need a crucible maindeck or is it a just nice to have wastelock/ recurring blockers type deal?

What is the "ideal" number of 1,2,3,4 and 5 cmc cards in a deck to get the most out of CB top?

[Mr. Forsberg]

This deck needs StP. No other solution for Tarmogoyf is going to cut it.

Have you tried Basilisk Collar? Do you feel that it isn't good enough, because you don't have enough creatures in your list?



All my creatures are wizards(Really!). is there a way to leverage this?

There is always Patron Wizard, but I think that the deck needs to go in a slightly different direction for it to be good.

[LOurs]

I didnt try the deck, so my comments are only my feelings.
I dont want to dismiss the deck, but on paper I dont really identify any advantages to play that deck over canadian thresh , new horizon or simply landstill. You're running neither tempo control cards compared to thresh, nor more counter than many traiditonal Ux builds. The creatures seem weak compared to traditional aggro control decks, and even vs zoo, I dont see lavamancer/bolt to be that decisive to clean the board, it would be interesting to get a results breakdown.

That said, let's try to optimize it. Firstly I think StP or equivalent removal (PtE ...) is heavly needed to deal with unexpected resolved creature. Secondly, as your deck seems to be more control than aggro oriented, I see no reason not to run Jace TMS : he's simply a house to dig your deck, to protect your position and he provides an additional win con. Thirdly, is trinket a really optimal choice in that deck ?? He's got only 2 potential targets md, and a 2/2 for 3cmc seems pretty weak. With a W splash for StP, I would try E-tutor instead which could find the same cards than trinket but also counterbalance, CoW and standstil... with top/brainstorm, it is pretty handy to find what you need to control the board ! Mystic stoneforge could also be tried to find jittes/other equipement. Also I would consider needle in the sb, as it is pretty handy to deal with a ton of decks, and it is targetable with both trinket & etutor. In fact, it could be interesting to test a stiflenought plan B (maybe sb to exchange grim/fae to dread post baord and surprise your opponent); not sure it works anyway.

gl

[jazzykat]

@Basilisk Collar: I don't think there are enough creatures (Mr. Forsberg-I agree)
@Mr. Forsberg's list: I think it looks really cool

Canadian Thresh-This deck is remarkably different than it. I really can't say it's better. The StP alone makes it a whole different level.
New Horizon- Doesn't have countertop or standstill. It's dudes are big and agressive. This deck tries to control the board. New Horizon's runs it over.
Landstill- This is my attempt at bringing it back. From what I understand landstill is "dead". This deck goes toe to toe with Merfolk and zoo, and can put at least a little more pressure on combo. I specifically try to address the problems posed by an early resolved Aether Vial.

@Jace: OK cool. He can be a 1 of for now as a Vendillion Clique. Maybe something else can be cut for another 1.

@Trinket: I can't see another blue CMC3 card advantage spell to take its role. They are strangely good. They also fetch relic, crypt, meekstone (considered) from the board. They are the MD answer to a resolved CB: Mage --> EE for 2 (pay 3 or more mana)

Regarding the addition of white cards to the deck in general: I am wary of stressing the manabase further. It's no problem to fetch up a Tundra for an StP and then have it wasted. The deck is primarily blue with 2 light but very important splashes. I really don't know how much extra pressure we can put on the manabase. Also, are you trying to turn this into UWr Tempo with the red being for the SB and Lavamancer? If so that's OK but I think you should propose a list.

@ E tutor: I really take issue with the card disadvantage but you are right that they let you get very powerful spells which can change the game. How would you change the deck?

@Stoneforge Mystic: I was strongly considering trying to get him in the deck. Again how would you fit this guy in. Also there aren't a lot of creatures in this deck, which is the reason I'm sort of shying away from equipment.

Stiflenought plan from the board. Interesting, but I found it to be more of a finisher when I was playing Dreadstill+Lavamancer. Once I got countertop assembled with a clear board it didn't often matter if I beat in with trinket mage or a dreadnought. Once I took control of the game my kill was irrelevant.

Did anyone actually play this thing?

[Jonathan Alexander]

I did some testing with a quite similar list today though my list doesn't play Counterbalance. I tried to pack a few more creatures and played Stoneforge Mystic over Trinket Mage. Here's the list I played:

//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland

//Creatures
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ninja Of The Deep Hours
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
1 Sword Of Fire And Ice
4 Swords To Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Jötun Grunt
SB: 3 Firespout
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 Relic Of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Wing Shards

I ended up being flooded quite often and had some really bad luck but the deck felt quite strong. I liked how I always could choose what I wanted to do, play more or less aggressive and how quickly the deck could change it's playstyle. Sometimes I was really just stalling and then put down a quite fast clock while still being able to just switch back to control. But usually I was playing tempo the first two or three turns and then started to put down creatures and gain board control.
There are some things I didn't like that much, mainly not having that much creatures. Some more (evasive) utility-creatures would be really nice. Also I didn't like the second Jitte that much, I think I'm going to cut it for a singleton Basilisk Collar, which should be nice with Lavamancer.
The white-splash for Swords and Stoneforge is totally worth it. Stoneforge + Spellstutter Sprite just wins games.
I am definitely going to change something about the manabase, cutting an Island and the Mountain for another Volcanic Island. I could then cut the Spell Pierces and play Cursecatcher or Spiketail Hatchling, but I think I'm going to test Spiketail first, because of having evasion and fitting the curve better. There are much better first turn plays than Cursecatcher, namely Lavamancer, Ponder and Stifle. Starting with turn one Stifle and turn two Spiketail should be really nice.
I could imagine playing Standstill, especially with Stoneforges. They seem cute, but that's it. I guess they're a bit to situational and I don't know what to cut for them. The most obvious answer is Ponder, but I loved Ponder in testing so far. It feeds Lavamancer and digs for solutions, basically everything this deck needs.
The board is really just thrown together, but kinda worked nice. As far as I could test it, Firespout seems kinda underwhelming, as well as Wing Shards. The Grunts didn't see play aswell. The gravehate-package worked nice because of all the carddraw this deck has. I'm definitely sure I want to have some slots against Combo, but if I should cut the mainboard Spell Pierces, I think they deserve the slots because of being less situational than Mindbreak Trap. In my opinion versatility is very important for control decks.

[jazzykat]

Howdy, I played this deck some more as well as the new Urg faeries build that Coma posted.

I am not sure if CB/Top is worth it anymore in today's metagame. Not only has everyone learned how to play as best they can through a resolved CB it is somewhat slow and you can get wrecked when you tap out on turn 2 vs. combo if you don't set-up/blind flip into a stopper CMC. HOWEVER, top is stone cold awesome in these decks.

From playing something close to what I had vs. the Faeries I've decided that if you run standstill and the like StP > Tarmogoyf. Besides Perish is now more than ever a game ending bomb.

I think that we have to be reasonable when we stick equipment into the deck because there aren't that many creatures. I think Jitte May be OK, but Basilisk collar is a bit too cute.

I believe that there is probably a place in the deck for Spellstutter sprite. I also think that riptide lab should seriously be considered as it's a stupid way to negate removal and create permablockers for non-tramplers.

I've been holding off on suggesting him but we may be able to sneak in a couple of voidmage prodigy although he seems MUCH too slow.

All that I can say is wizards aren't so weeny anymore!

[jazzykat]

So here is my updated decklist if anyone is still following. I don't have match results or percentages and I've only played random MWS opponents. It has done quite well in general. Maybe Dreadstill or Tempo Thresh would be better but this is strangely viable as well.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [A] Tundra
3 [TE] Wasteland
4 [JGC] Mishra's Factory
4 [U] Volcanic Island
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [BD] Island (3)

// Creatures
3 [JGC] Grim Lavamancer
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
4 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite

// Spells
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [NE] Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 [R] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 3 [JGC] Lightning Bolt