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Indykid Vago
05-26-2010, 04:33 AM
Yay another rogue deck . How absolutely rebellious .

I've been playtesting Rebels for quite some time now and played a few rounds in a small tourney with it . It hit my 3rd loss on round 5 . I have logged an almost stupid number of Legacy matches in MWS and have tested against most of the significant decks in Legacy . I have also completely fallen in Love with ...
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=21271&type=card
...and would gladly sell all of your first born Children (s of Korlis ) to win her hand in marriage.

I'll present my decklist , explain how it tends to work , go over my individual card choices , current SB plans and do a rough match-up analysis .

This is the list I am currently running.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME: Legacy Rebels
// AUTHOR: Vago@mindless.com

// Lands
12 [UNH] Plains
3 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [US] Gaea's Cradle
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
2 [NE] Defiant Falcon
1 [TSP] Amrou Scout
1 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
1 [PLC] Aven Riftwatcher
1 [ON] Whipcorder
1 [NE] Defiant Vanguard
1 [PLC] Dunerider Outlaw
1 [MM] Thermal Glider
2 [LRW] Mirror Entity

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
2 [EX] Cataclysm

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
SB: 1 [MM] Story Circle
SB: 1 [US] Absolute Law
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [MR] Rule of Law
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 2 [WL] Aura of Silence
Lands - 23 , Creatures - 22 , Spells - 15 , Sideboard - 15 = 75 Cards total

[B]
What is Mono w Rebels ?

Rebels plays very reactivity so it plays as a control deck , forcing decks to kill it before it can assemble one of the win conditions or a Mirror Entity. It plays a very diverse toolbox that can answer a great deal of the commonly played creatures in legacy .

#1 ) Tutor for and or resolve a Mirror Entity and push for lethal damage .
#2 ) Tutor for or resolve an evasive rebel and push for lethal , hopefully with Umezawa's Jitte .


The Manabase

12 Plains - The manabase I have settled on is a 23 card base that runs 16 white sources . I added the 16th source (the 12th Plains) because of my addition of Story Circle into my SB and to help strengthen the manabase against non basic disruption .

3 Flagstones of Trokair - I run 3 Flagstones of Trokair to vary my manabase and because I choose to also run Cataclysm . Its a helps vs Smokestack and Armageddon but those cards don't see a much daylight anymore .

1 Karakas - I run a single Karakas in the MD and I personally love this card . It has occasionally saved me from some very strange games that I should have lost . It also saves Lin Sivvi from removal which is fine by me . I feel that it justifies its place in here over another Plains .

3 Gaea's Cradle - I run 3 Gaea's Cradle because of the inherent synergy with the rebel engine . If Gaea's Cradle stays in play this deck will very quickly get out of hand and swing for lethal . If it's game 2 or 3 my opponent will always save their Wastelands for this . It's part of what I feel is this decks best start. Turn 1 Plains , Ramosian Sergeant , Turn 2 Mother of Runes , Gaea's Cradle , Umezawa's Jitte .

4 Wasteland - I run Wasteland as a 4 of in here to give the deck a little disruption . This deck wants to buy time to develop and since this IS Legacy I thought it would help a little bit.


Below is a list of a few cards I've tested in the manabase but that I dont use , as well as an explanation of the reason for my exclusion of said cards .

Rishadan Port - I've tested 2 (in place of Plains #12-13) and I found it VERY useful . It was great with Cataclysm . The main problem I ran into was that I was either running 14 White (which does not feel like enough w to support a mono color list , or that it was ok up until I needed to resolve a Cataclysm at which point I had a hard time drawing into more w sources of mana . Another option was going up to 24 lands and if I do then Ports are the first land I'll look at including . I tested Ports in place of Wastelands before realizing I had completely lost my mind and Wasteland is just better then Port .

Mishra's Factory - I tested Mishra's Factory in the Port slot and had varying results . I initially though that this inclusion would greatly improved the match-up vs decks packing Standstill but again after testing those decks all pack Wasteland and that the weakening of the manabase wasn't worth it .

Mutavault - Rebels does not have access to a "Lord". Mutavault is also weaker against Engineered Plague . The main reason I tried this is because Lord of Atlantis and Elvish Champion both pump and landwalk my Mutavaults (and if I can both land and activate a Mirror Entity my whole board) . In the end Mutavaults weakness to E Plague and its lack of the ability to pump and block at 3/3 made me lean towards Mishra's Factory as a manland in this deck .

Kor Haven - Was a card that I considered running but didn't test because for 3 mana Rebels should start winning . Kor Havens ability to stall vs fast aggro decks (Zoo , Goblins and etc) wasn't worth a 3 mana early game investment because Rebels needs all its mana every turn . Even still , it is a consideration over the 13th Plains making the deck run out of 15 w sources .

Mistveil Plains - I used to run this card in the manabase because of the synergy with Flagstones of Trokair and Cataclysm but I found that even as a 1 of drawing it in the early game was just terrible since it CIPT . I no longer consider any card that CIPT as again , Rebels needs its mana to win .

I would like to add that the reason I tested a 14 W manabase for a very long time was because of two considerations . Firstly , I honestly felt that a deck could operate with 14 w sources and 4 AEther Vial . The second was that if I ran 2 more non basic lands it would help save my Gaea's Cradle from Wasteland later . Unfortunatley a few decks are running Back to Basics to answer decks like 43 Lands and slow down Zoo or Counterbalance builds . In testing a lost too many games to mulligans where I would have kept had those 2 non basics been w sources .


[B]The Creatures

There is quite some agreement on the correct number of a certain type of card you run so that you can hit 1 of them with a 7 or a mull . I borrowed this logic from the vast majority of Belcher lists that run 4 Goblin Charbelcher / 4 Burning Wish / 3 Empty the Warrens. In this deck those 11 cards are...

4 Ramosian Sergeant
2 Defiant Falcon
1 Amrou Scout
1 Ramosian Lieutenant
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Defiant Vanguard

This list comprises what you hope to draw in your hand when you fan it open . I will more often mulligan a hand that lacks one of the 11 unless I know my hand can handle the match-up without it . The deck relies on it almost as much as a deck like belcher relies on its own won conditions . I run the Defiant Falcons for Flying and the single Ramosian Lieutenant over the 2nd Amrou Scout to help combat Mogg Fanatic , Engineered Plague and the occasional 1 power creature . I'd like to note that the mana curve for the searchers is 4/4/3 , and helps very much against decks that rely on Chalice of the Void and/or Counterbalance to gain control.

The supporting cast is ...

4 Mother of Runes - I include a full set of MoR because of the importance of being able to activate a Rebel searcher . Mother helps vs any deck running removal or any deck trying to win with the combat step . I tested only running 3 but since one of the weak match-ups for Rebels is Zoo I now run 4.

1 Children of Korlis - Rebels is a control deck . That's how I play it (unless my opponent is mana short because he kept a weak land hand) and that is the only was I happen to do well . As such I run this for life gain and it has helped in a great number of games . CoK has be itself won me a few games vs Tendrils of Agony but once they know about it they play around it . Cok also has great synergy with Lin Sivvi as for 4 colorless you can stall the game almost indefinitely . Once I was able to take Progenitus because of this but the main reason is as an out to Burn game 1 .

1 Aven Riftwatcher - I run this as a 2nd card vs Burn , because it is a 2/3 flyer , it is an excellent blocker , because of the synergy with Lin Sivvi and because it will survive vs a Tombstalker while giving me 4 life .

1 Whipcorder - I almost want to run 2 of this since Legacy is so creature heavy but paying 1 mana to activate it every turn turned out to be a serious problem in a deck that wants to hold as much mana up as possible . Also it has beaten a resolved Iona, Shield of Emeria on white because it has the Morph .

1 Defiant Vanguard - Defiant Vanguard serves so many purposes in this deck . Firstly it is the 11th searching rebel and is better then a 3rd Defiant Falcon and a 2nd Ramosian Lieutenant or a 2nd Amrou Scout because of it a 2/2 . Secondly its ridiculous ability to kill anything that it can block that doesn't have either regenerate or indestructibility . It is often the absolute best rebel to search out when blocking because of its defensive ability .

1 Dunerider Outlaw - There is some hilarity to this card since it is a bb card in a completely Mono w deck but the ever dominating presence of Tarmogoyf in the format and Zoo's other g creatures ( Qasali Pridemage , Knight of the Reliquary & Wild Nacatl) . You have the option of searching for it or using AEther Vial .

1 Thermal Glider - This another nod towards aggro , answering Goblins and to a lesser extent Zoo . Its flying ability makes late game finishes with Mirror Entity + flyers very possible against a ground stall .

2 Mirror Entity - This is the main win condition in Rebels . It helps a few Lords for the other tribal decks in Legacy and allows for some awe inspiring epic ballads with Gaea's Cradle . I run this as a 2 of to reflect the importance of the card , because it is often the 1st target for removal , and because this + AEther Vial makes for some occasional very VERY sneaky attacking and blocking situations .


Below is a list of a few cards I've tested in the creature base but that I dont use , as well as an explanation of the reason for my exclusion of said cards .

Shield Dancer - I'm currently testing Shield Dancer in the slot for Aven Riftwatcher as an answer to Zoo . It can be used as soon as it comes into play which is nice but running this was a problem given that in order to use it to the greatest effect meant having to use 6 mana as best ( searching with Sivvi and activating immediately to block and destroy ) . If you have search capability and mana you will almost always have better options available to you .

Nightwind Glider - I recently dropped this card in favor for the 4th Mother of Runes and I am very happy with this drop . Yes I can acknowledge that it is a fantastic answer to Tombstalker and that it would be the decks 5th flying creature . One of the reasons I dropped it was because heavy b decks can run untargeted removal or board wipe to answer it and it still dies to Engineered Plague .

Big Game Hunter - It was in my Sb for a while so I'll discuss it in that section if i can remember .

Outrider en-Kor + Task Force - This enables an infinite Life combo but you'd have to drop the Swords to Plowshares and run Condemn in the slot . Condemn is completely inferior to Plow ( this shouldn't raise any eyebrows ) .

Rappelling Scouts - It's a decent card that can be used immediately after a search , but again that means using tons of mana to stop 1 thing ( 7 in this case ) and Mother of Runes is a much stronger card .

Tarmogoyf - Don't laugh , Tarmo was completely considered . Running the green beast means having access to Krosan Grip vs Counterbalance . Honestly tho Rebels can handle Counterbalance fine without it as they have to keep everything off of the table or CB becomes useless . It also weakens the manabase to the point that an early Wasteland will keep you off of 4 mana too often to merit its inclusion .


The Spells

4 AEther Vial - The deck runs 22 creatures and Vial means you can brush off Counterspells and such . It's included as a 4 of and I haven't ever wanted to take these out of the MD .

4 Swords to Plowshares - I run 4 Plows and not the 2/2 split with Path to Exile because Rebels can deal with giving the opponent Life better then giving the opponent a Land .

2 Umezawa's Jitte - I run 2 Jitte's and not 3 because sometimes you just don't need Jitte in the match-up . I don't run 3 because you never want to see 2 in game 1 , since most decks don't run an artifact removal MD .

3 Oblivion Ring - Oblivion Ring is a card that you fall back on a lot . I'll admit that the 3rd Oblivion Ring instead of a 3rd Jitte is always up to debate and the slot shifts depending on what I expect to face . In an open metagame I prefer the 3rd Oring as it answers almost anything and it is the only enchantment preboard I run , and works well with pre-Cataclysm.

2 Cataclysm - I am simply amazed by this card . It's ability to equalize the board is unparalleled . I have tested running a 3rd MD copy but I often drew it when I was either already winning and 3 felt like 1 too many . You can set up a situation with Lin Sivvi , Jitte and Cradle in play quite often in games where you are playing defensively and completely take control of that game after that .


Below is a list of a few cards I've tested in the spell base but that I dont use , as well as an explanation of the reason for my exclusion of said cards .

Path to Exile - Giving the opponent lands is a great idea for an aggro deck . Rebels isn't one . Please do not try and tell me that rebels is an aggro deck . It's a horrible aggro deck and if you play it like that you will lose to any decent deck you'll see at an event .

Seal of Cleansing / Disenchant - I tested these over the 3 Orings but I found myself lacking for more flexible removal .

Bound in Silence - This was tested but I dropped it in favor of the 3rd Oblivion Ring because foor me all too often I would either draw an Oring then draw the Bound in Silence or I had the ability to search for something to remove the offensive creaure ( Vanguard , Whipcorder or Shield Dancer ) . That's not to say that Bound in Silence has no place in this deck . Not at all , actually it was often nice to see that Bound game 1 , but in the end that slot could have been the 3rd Jitte , the 3rd Cataclysm or the 3rd Oblivion Ring . In most matches you'll rather have one of those 3 in your deck then a single Bound in Silence . Bound in Silence is total tech , but its still not good enough for most of what we'll face . If there was a Flying Shrouded Unblockable creature then Bound would definitle be a stronger card . You can recur a blocker for an Empyrial Archangel , and that's the only thing I can think of that Bound handles that Rebels can't without it .

Training Grounds - I feel that all the Training Ground builds I have seen lack removal or AEther Vials , relying on counters to keep board parity before emploding with Training Grounds . They also don't play Gaea's Cradle which seems like the strongest land for Rebels . I almost feel that if Training Grounds has a place in this deck that diluting the board disruption to run Force of Will may not be right , and that maybe just the 4 Training Grounds in place of maybe AEther Vial would be faster then the Mono W or a Countertop or Standstill build .


The Sideboard and Match-ups

SB: 3 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Ghostly Prison
SB: 1 Story Circle
SB: 1 Absolute Law
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 2 Aura of Silence

I chose to run an Enlightened Tutor package because Rebels can mostly generate more card advantage then Enlightened Tutor can take away , and because it increases the number of cards you can bring into a match-up . I dedicated my Sb into answer aggro , combo , graveyards and to provide Artifact and Enchantment hate .

Merfolk - You match their decks but for one great weakness . Where they play 10-12 Lords you play Utility Rebels . Both of you run Vial , Waste and Jitte , but where they run Muta you run Cradle . This means that they'll have more creatures then you have removal . The key to winning this match is to play around Daze , use your Wasteland on theirs so you can play your own Cradle safely and to find Mirror Entity and make your Rebels Changelings to benefit from their Lord of Atlantis . Your advantage here is that they don't run removal at all and rely on tempo and Lords to win .
SB Plan
+ 3 Enlightened Tutor / 2 Ghostly Prison / 1 Story Circle
- 1 Dunerider Outlaw / 1 Thermal Glider / 1 Children of Korlis / 3 Oblivion Ring

Countertop - This is a pretty good match-up . The NO Bant CB lists run a very small amount of removal , assuming their ability to play a creature and land a Counterbalance enough to beat you . It's not . You run 8 must counter 1 drops (Vial and Sergeant) along with Dunerider and you also happen to be able to beat a mid to late game Progenitus by looping Children of Korlis with Lin Sivvi . Nothing beats an early Natural Order into Prog . Get over it and go to the next game .
SB Plan
+ 3 Enlightened Tutor / 2 Aura of Silence / 1 Story Circle
- 2 Umezawa's Jitte / 2 Cataclysm / 1 Thermal Glider / 1 Oblivion Ring

Zoo - This is one of the worst match-ups in the gauntlet and I am constantly trying to find a wat to win this match-up . Zoo runs 12-14 removal spells and a tri color attack force . They will usually make sur eyou don't get to untap with Mother of Runes or any of the 11 searchers and just roll over you . Also , they run Pridemage , which severely hurts the number of cards you can bring in that will swing the game back for you . I'll mention that similar White Weenie Decks ( Death and Taxes , GW Aggro , and Excalibur all have problems against it because 1 , Zoo is a just a better aggro deck then any of these mentioned and 2 , because Zoo runs so much removal ) . That said your best card in this match is Mother of Runes hands down , and untapping with her goes a long way to enabling you to control the game . Use Mother to save your creatures from removal and not to block defensively because you need to search to beat Zoo . I have put a great deal of time into increasing the % of this match-up I've come to the conclusion that this will always be a hard pairing .
SB Plan
+ 3 Enlightened Tutor / 2 Ghostly Prison / 1 Absolute Law
- 2 AEther Vial / 1 Children of Korlis / 3 Oblivion Ring

Reanimator - You will lose Game 1 unless they use Show and Tell or give you time . You'll need to mulligan to beat this post board but you have answers to reanimate given time . But time with the Canonist and push this into a long game to win . Protect Canonist with Mother if you can .
SB Plans
+ 3 Enlightened Tutor / 2 Ethersworn Canonist / 1 Rule of Law / 2 Tormod's Crypt
- 2 Umezawa's Jitte / 1 Dunerider Outlaw / 1 Thermal Glider / 1 Children of Korlis / 1 Oblivion Ring / 2 Cataclysm

Ad Nauseam - You will lose Game 1 unless by some miracle you either have Vial @ 1 with Children in hand or Rebel + search capability ( so yeah , you just lose Game 1) . This match-up is a lot like Reanimator , in the sense that you need to hit those Sb cards to have a shot .
SB Plans
+ 3 Enlightened Tutor / 2 Ethersworn Canonist / 1 Rule of Law
- 2 Cataclysm / 1 Dunerider Outlaw / 3 Oblivion Ring

Goblins - I tested this a lot . There are a lot of Goblins out there and I've been told that it feels like an even match-up (from their perspective) I think its slightly in their favor pre board but the good news is that you have a lot to bring in post board vs Goblins . Stop that Lackey and you'll go a long way to winning . You can do that with 13 cards on the draw game 1 ( Mother of Runes , Ramosian Sergeant, Swords to Plowshares and Children of Korlis ) .
SB Plans
+ 3 Enlightened Tutor / 2 Ghostly Prison / 1 Story Circle / 1 Absolute Law
- 3 Oblivion Ring / 1 Dunerider Outlaw / 1 Whipcorder / 1 Children of Korlis / 1 Aven Riftwatcher

Dredge - Game 1 Plow anything that isn't a token and find that Children of Korlis immediately . This match-up isn't as bad as you'd think as you have decent chances pre board and you'll bring in a ton of hate post board .
SB Plans
+ 3 Enlightened Tutor / 2 Ghostly Prison / 3 Tormod's Crypt
- 2 Umezawa's Jitte / 1 Dunerider Outlaw / 1 Thermal Glider / 2 Cataclysm / 1 Whipcorder / 1 Oblivion Ring

Enchantress - They need a very explosive start to deal with your searching and card advantage , you also run Cataclysm . This is a very good match-up for Rebels as Enchantress will have to be the Beatdown Deck in this match-up . Your entire creature base happens to all be relevant so drop your removal for games 2/3 .
SB Plan
+ 3 Enlightened Tutor / 2 Aura of Silence / 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
- 4 Swords to Plowshares / 2 Umezawa's Jitte

Additionally , please note that Aura of Silence is the only answer to SB's that run Engineered Plague . Against anything you suspect of pakcing that SB card run +3 Enlightened Tutor + 2 Aura of Silence and keep the 3 Oblivion Rings MD . That's 8 Cards vs their 4 . It's the best shot you have to beat that card .

Well , that's about it . I am thoroughly exhausted with this write up and hope for some feedback . I welcome all questions and comments .

hjalte
05-26-2010, 04:59 AM
I didn't read the whole post, but a search for Training Grounds revealed nothing. I believe, you have to consider Training grounds very seriously, when building a rebel deck. It's nice to be mono-colored indeed, but to search for rebels for {2} less is just too powerful to miss.

You should also have a look in this thread
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?15683-Counter-Rebel-Still

Indykid Vago
05-26-2010, 05:13 AM
There is a info (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=236459) on building Rebels with Training Grounds . It's a very different list . I find that it improves the various combo match-ups but you start to lose games to aggro lists . It also significantly weakens the manabase to the point that you don't run disruption or Gaea's Cradle . I feel that Cradle is both better for a aggro heavy field and that running the Standstill build never helped me when I was already behind , as I needed to resolve something before resolving Standstill .

I will note that the CB lists I tested felt the strongest but again , it also felt that you had less " come from behind " power in your deck .

Greenpoe
05-26-2010, 09:55 PM
Can Lin Sivvi put into play non-permanents that are still considered rebels (AKA changeling instants like Crib Swap or Nameless Inversion)? If so, that would be a sweet tech to add one or both as 1of's.

Broham
05-26-2010, 09:59 PM
Can Lin Sivvi put into play non-permanents that are still considered rebels (AKA changeling instants like Crib Swap or Nameless Inversion)? If so, that would be a sweet tech to add one or both as 1of's.

No the card must be a permanent, as per her Oracle text. Also, you don't really "put into play" instants and sorceries.

Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
Legendary Creature - Human Rebel 1/3, 1WW (3)
{X}, {T}: Search your library for a Rebel permanent card with converted mana cost X or less and put that card onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
{3}: Put target Rebel card from your graveyard on the bottom of your library.

Indykid Vago
05-27-2010, 04:16 AM
Broham is correct , errata on Sivvi states you can only search for "Rebel Permanents" .

I dropped the 3rd Oblivion Ring for a 3rd Cataclysm then dropped 1 Aven Riftwatcher for 1 Shield Dancer then I tested a matches against Zoo and Aggro Loam under a clock .

I won the Zoo match in 2 games . I resolves a fast Mother of Runes game 1 , protected a Sergeant and chained towards a Shield Dancer that completely swung the game into my control . I boarded in exactly as planned and didn't hit any of the 6 pieces of hate but I did have 3 Mother , 1 Plains , 1 Aether Vial , 1 Sivvi, 1 Wasteland . I drew into Cradle on turn 2 . I had 3 Mothers in play by turn 3 . That was basically all I needed to push my chain through .

The Aggro Loam went to 3 games , I won game 1 on the back of Jitte and Thermal GLider. I lost game 2 to a very very fast start where I kept hand without hate . I did draw into a Crypt late but he protected with a cycle land he had been holding and won on the back of a Crusher . I won game 3 by going for a Whipcorder eot , untap , tap Tarmo with Whipcorder and full swing , Vialing out the Mirror Entity and activating for exact lethal on the 5th turn of time . It was a really close game . I SBed in the 3 Etutors and 2 Aura of Silence in both games for 3 Cataclysm and 2 Jitte's , anticipating the Engineered Plagues I thought he had in his SB but he later told me he didn't run any . Huzza !

The Zoo match feels shakey at best simply because they have way more threats then we have removal , and at the same time have more removal then we have searchers . They also answer my Sb plans with Pridemage and Grips .

I'm happy with the 3rd Cataclysm , after looking at my SB plans i dropped a Oring in almost every match , where as I rarely crop the Cataclysms when sideboarding .

ReAnimator
05-27-2010, 10:58 AM
Why isn't there a Bound in Silence in here?

hungryLIKEALION
05-27-2010, 01:42 PM
Excalibur [has] problems against [zoo] because it's a better aggro deck

Not that this is the topic of your post, but Excalibur A)Isn't a white weenie deck in any sense and B) has a very good zoo matchup,

Indykid Vago
05-28-2010, 04:16 AM
Why isn't there a Bound in Silence in here?

Bound in Silence was tested but I dropped it in favor of the 3rd Oblivion Ring because foor me all too often I would either draw an Oring then draw the Bound in Silence or I had the ability to search for something to remove the offensive creaure ( Vanguard , Whipcorder or Shield Dancer ) .

That's not to say that Bound in Silence has no place in this deck . Not at all , actually it was often nice to see that Bound game 1 , but in the end that slot could have been the 3rd Jitte , the 3rd Cataclysm or the 3rd Oblivion Ring . In most matches you'll rather have one of those 3 in your deck then a single Bound in Silence . Bound in Silence is total tech , but its still not good enough for most of what we'll face . If there was a Flying Shrouded Unblockable creature then Bound would definitle be a stronger card . You can recur a blocker for an Empyrial Archangel , and that's the only thing I can think of that Bound handles that Rebels can't without it .


Not that this is the topic of your post, but Excalibur A)Isn't a white weenie deck in any sense and B) has a very good zoo matchup,

My apologies , I had no idea that Excalibur had a good Zoo match-up , my bad :|

@ Training Grounds , I feel that all the Training Ground builds I have seen lack removal or AEther Vials , relying on counters to keep board parity before emploding with Training Grounds . They also don't play Gaea's Cradle which seems like the strongest land for Rebels . I almost feel that if Training Grounds has a place in this deck that diluting the board disruption to run Force of Will may not be right , and that maybe just the 4 Training Grounds in place of maybe AEther Vial would be faster then the Mono W or a Countertop or Standstill build .

Just my 2 cents .

On a side note I've beaten Dredge twice since including Wheel of Sun and Moon in the SB over the 3rd Tormod's Crypt . I'll have to test that match way more but so far I like my SB plan against it .

Dredge SB Plan
+ 3 Etutor , 2 Ghostly Prison , 2 Tormod's Crypt , 1 Wheel of Sun/Moon
- 2 Cataclysm , 3 Obivion Ring , 1 Dunerider Outlaw , 1 Thermal Glider , 1 Aven Riftwatcher

Gocho
05-28-2010, 04:21 AM
Bound in silence can enchant creatures with Shroud, that Oblivion can't.
You must put in your side almost one to face Reanimator.

Indykid Vago
05-28-2010, 04:25 AM
Bound in silence can enchant creatures with Shroud, that Oblivion can't.
You must put in your side almost one to face Reanimator.

I'll test my the Reanimator match-up with 1 Bound in Silence MD over the 3rd Oblivion Ring . I'll let you know how that testing pans out as soon as I can .

Reanimator has the only played creature where that Bound in Silence is preferable to a 3rd Oring .

Just for reference my list is as OP with the following changes ...
+ 1 Shield Dancer , 1 Bound in Silence
- 1 Dunerider Outlaw , 1 Oblivion Ring

Linkin Pac
05-30-2010, 04:15 AM
Have you considered replacing the 4 Wasteland with 4 Ancient Tomb? Getting those rebels out a turn earlier each should be worth trying, since the deck is so mana-hungry. The damage can be offset with Jitte and Riftwatcher, plus getting out your creatures is the goal of you as a control deck. You lose a bit of disruption in losing Wasteland, but it doesn't really fit with anything else in the deck except possibly holding a single one after a Cataclysm to rid your opponent of his one dual. Also, in most games you will want to play a land each turn for at least the first four turns in order to keep churning out your dudes, so sacrificing your tempo for disruption seems kind of bad here.