New cards from M11

[Arsenal]

Previews for today: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=253564

I need lots of that Shaman for EDH.

For those who can't see it:

Fauna Shaman
:1::g:
Creature - Elf Shaman (rare)
:g:, T, Discard a creature card: Search your library for a creature card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
2/2

Seems good in a multitude of decks.

[Vacrix]

Is this really the first core set printing a multitude of cards that will be good in Legacy? There really haven't been too many. Props to WoTC.

[Hanni]

You know, I was thinking... Solidarity has a great game against blue decks because it can keep going off in response to stuff... is this a possible inclusion for a deck like Tendrils Storm combo, helping fight blue decks?

[majikal]

Is dat sum Survival I see? o_O

That creature is nuts! Maybe not so much in Legacy where we already have, you know, Survival... but it might be worthwhile as a 1-2 of in those decks to get around Pithing Needle.

Also, fuck busted in EDH.

[Hopo]

You know, I was thinking... Solidarity has a great game against blue decks because it can keep going off in response to stuff... is this a possible inclusion for a deck like Tendrils Storm combo, helping fight blue decks?

Possible, or mandatory? Seems awesome anyway. Let's see how the other leylines turn out to be. Also, someone is bound to try to fit that in Solidarity with some sorceries borrowed from Spring tide.

I started thinking how present decks would be affected by getting instantized. I'd love to see that in dredge. Instant leds, therapies and Breakthroughs make me laugh.

[menace13]

Possible, or mandatory? Seems awesome anyway. Let's see how the other leylines turn out to be. Also, someone is bound to try to fit that in Solidarity with some sorceries borrowed from Spring tide.

I started thinking how present decks would be affected by getting instantized. I'd love to see that in dredge. Instant leds, therapies and Breakthroughs make me laugh.

Did you just say Instant Dread Returns......

[Hanni]

WOW, I didn't realize Fauna Shaman was an Elf.

Elves decks get a new toy, Survival decks get a new toy.

Does Survival Elves now go up a Tier?

[conboy31]

WOW, I didn't realize Fauna Shaman was an Elf.

Elves decks get a new toy, Survival decks get a new toy.

Does Survival Elves now go up a Tier?

I saw that card spoiled on my way home and thought about it during the drive. I was pondering if tribal elves w/surival use these instead of or in conjunction with surival. They can get swooped up with Sylvan Messenger were survival can't.
My guess would be 4 survival, 2 Fauna Shaman when it is all said and done.

[Fuzzy]

You know, I was thinking... Solidarity has a great game against blue decks because it can keep going off in response to stuff... is this a possible inclusion for a deck like Tendrils Storm combo, helping fight blue decks?

Without Ad Nauseam? I'm fine with this.

[danyul]

Conundrum Sphinx is amazing with SDT...


Conundrum Sphinx 2UU
Creature - Sphinx
Flying
Whenever Conundrum Sphinx attacks, each player names a card. Then each player reveals the top card of his or her library. If the card a player revealed is the card he or she named, that player puts that card into his or her hand. If it's not, that player puts it on the bottom of his or her library.
4/4

Beats for 4 evasively at 4cc, and draws you cards you already know whats on top of your library when you have top out.

I thought I should point out that you can also toss unwanted cards to the bottom of your library by simply naming Cheatyface or whatever when you don't like your top card. That makes this guy even better.

[MMogg]

@ new Leyline... not sure what deck wants this exactly. The only playable leyline is Void and that's because it's not only game altering, but also can straight up win you matches, especially in match ups where you would otherwise get steamrollered. I don't see how packing 4 of these (in order to get one in your opening 4) is worthwhile. Then again, I suck.

@ new Sphinx: I wonder if he is playable in Faerie Stompy? For :u: control, I think Jace is still the go-to guy. He wins games and has a great way of protecting the game state with his +2 ability.

[Kagehisa]

Personal Tutor + Leyline of Anticipation ! LOL XD

It remembers me a banned card.

[pippo84]

That Leyline seems real fun and can be broken! Just wow!

I'm thinking of istant Dread Returns, Natural Orders, Hymn to Tourach, Pulse..

[Rood]

He's also realllly bad when your oponent has a Top out as well. It works both ways haha.

[Nonex]

IMHO the randomness associated with the opening hand makes all Leylines suck, no wonder Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt are still the cards of choice for graveyard hate (that's for Leyline of the Void). In addition, if Vedalken Orrery sees no play, I don't see why a blue version that sometimes is free and sometimes has a worse mana cost will. If I had to predict its future, I'd say that it will start relatively expensive and people will try to fit it in some decks until they realize it's bad, then it will slowly become a 0.50 € rare.

[MMogg]

IMHO the randomness associated with the opening hand makes all Leylines suck, no wonder Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt are still the cards of choice for graveyard hate (that's for Leyline of the Void).

Exactly, except of course decks that also abuse the graveyard (i.e. Dredge), in which case Leyline is their best choice. Tormod's is good, but unlike Leyline, it's a one shot and easy enough to bait, whereas Leyline of the Void has to be dealt with. Anyway, getting off topic... this new blue Leyline looks sucky.

[sigfig8]

Is this really the first core set printing a multitude of cards that will be good in Legacy? There really haven't been too many. Props to WoTC.

What if this was Wizards's way of reprinting Survival so when they can legacy for overextended, less people complain and quit? Not to rain on people's parade, just a thought...

What's next? Reprinting a pseudo Lion's Eye Diamond???

[Gheizen64]

They should but reprint a decent mana-ritual and some decent 2 mana lands and some decents... too many things really. MM-eternal would be fun, but an entirely different thing from Legacy.

[edgewalker]

What if this was Wizards's way of reprinting Survival so when they can legacy for overextended, less people complain and quit? Not to rain on people's parade, just a thought...

What's next? Reprinting a pseudo Lion's Eye Diamond???

No

[menace13]

IMHO the randomness associated with the opening hand makes all Leylines suck, no wonder Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt are still the cards of choice for graveyard hate (that's for Leyline of the Void). In addition, if Vedalken Orrery sees no play, I don't see why a blue version that sometimes is free and sometimes has a worse mana cost will. If I had to predict its future, I'd say that it will start relatively expensive and people will try to fit it in some decks until they realize it's bad, then it will slowly become a 0.50 € rare.

In Legacy Crypt and Relic are played much, much more than Leyline, but in Vintage leyline is the #1 most played Graveyard hate. It is probably due to wanting a turn 0 Leyline against Bazaar,Welders. leyline does not suck.

[TorpidNinja]

I thought I should point out that you can also toss unwanted cards to the bottom of your library by simply naming Cheatyface or whatever when you don't like your top card. That makes this guy even better.

If you know what the top card is, you name it. The decks which would include this card want cards in hand, not back on the bottom of the deck.

[Nonex]

In Legacy Crypt and Relic are played much, much more than Leyline, but in Vintage leyline is the #1 most played Graveyard hate. It is probably due to wanting a turn 0 Leyline against Bazaar,Welders. leyline does not suck.

I was talking exclusively from a Legacy perspective because I don't play Vintage yet. Sorry for not specifying.

[BKclassic]

I think that with Fauna Shaman, you have to remember that you have to tap to use it and then ask yourself if it is much better than Wordly Tutor. Wordly Tutor is cheaper, doesn't have to survive a turn, doesn't require you to discard a creature, doesn't get raped by stifle and is an instant. For Fauna Shaman to be better than Wordly Tutor, you need a deck that can profit from it being a 2/2 elf. Realistically, Fauna Shaman has a home in Elves, but I can't really see it being played anywhere else.

[conboy31]

I think that with Fauna Shaman, you have to remember that you have to tap to use it and then ask yourself if it is much better than Wordly Tutor. Wordly Tutor is cheaper, doesn't have to survive a turn, doesn't require you to discard a creature, doesn't get raped by stifle and is an instant. For Fauna Shaman to be better than Wordly Tutor, you need a deck that can profit from it being a 2/2 elf. Realistically, Fauna Shaman has a home in Elves, but I can't really see it being played anywhere else.

One of the bigger pros it has is acually a corner case, being able to discard a drawn progenitus to play ones natural order.

[SpikeyMikey]

I hate to rain on your parade but the history of Magic is littered with good decks running bad cards. Illusions of Grandeur would like a word with you. So would Enduring Renewal, Atog, Progenitus and Gamekeeper. A lot of decks use narrow cards that have synergy. Of course, I'm not saying that Ingot is good, just that the general rule doesn't hold up.
I repeatedly mentioned Pridemage as a reason to run Needle/Lich in a deck. Besides, only Zoo runs the cat, and Needle--> Pridemage is a strong play even if you don't have a Lich around. As to Grip, that's fine with me. You can board out your liches and board in something else. You can also use Duress/Thoughtseize to remove the Grip in the early turns before it becomes a problem.

Ingot is a bad card. Good decks do not use bad cards.


As I stated, Mox and Needle remain the best two choices for your Phylactery (although other options are still out there). Pridemage does not detract from the combo, and a game 2/3 Grip does not either.

-ktkenshinx-

[KrzyMoose]

Voltaic Key!!!!!

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=253722

[FredMaster]

I know it's not a new card, but holy shit Voltaic Key in M11!! (Damn ninjas (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=253722))

[Vacrix]

Woah the art looks sick too:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106890&stc=1&d=1278007088

[Sims]

It's the same art from the Phyrexia vs. the Coalition duel deck, nothing special. I actually don't like it compared to the old art, at all.

[DrJones]

Isn't this thread about the new cards? What's doing Voltaic Key here, then?

[denial]

Isn't this thread about the new cards? What's doing Voltaic Key here, then?

Dont be so literal.

[Angelfire]

Also... why has this card gotten 0 attention so far? Its broken!

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106877&stc=1&d=1277957022

Wait... is that a Vedalken Orrery that you can begin the game with it in play? Wow.. turning any deck into Solidarity sounds pretty badass. I'm sure this will be broken as hell. Might combo play it? I'd love to see some Serum Powder post-boards including this.

This card is far from broken. Solidarity wasn't good because of its instant speed. It is card disadvantage and it can be destroyed (which could seriously fuck you if its in response to you going off on their turn). Does it really help combo decks more than an Orim's Chant/Duress/Thoughtseize? What spells are "broken" cast at instant speed? The best spells to cast at instant speed are probably creatures (like Goyf and Rhox War Monk) as surprise blockers.

[DrJones]

From my experience when building johnny decks, I remember the best effects to put at instant speed were from artifacts and auras, and some answers to degenerate combo decks were on cards that unfortunately had sorcery speed.

[morgan_coke]

I think I like the Leyline best in Madness, Bant Survival, and TES sideboards. But I could be wrong about all of that. It's a completely new effect, and therefore hard to evaluate properly just from looking at it. Hopefully the other Leylines are as intriguing vs. last time when the Black one was obviously good, the Blue one had some situational uses and the rest sucked.

EDIT: red leyline spoiled. It reads: Players can't gain life. Damage can't be prevented.

Pretty frikin awesome for red, seems like the best version of this effect since Sulfuric Vortex.

[niknight]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs047.snc3/13456_404508052917_174376972917_4545780_684269_n.jpg


So a Confidant that dodges creature removal...

[heroicraptor]

Dark Tutelage: Enchantment - 2B - At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library. Lose life equal to it's converted mana cost and put it in your hand.


So a Confidant that dodges creature removal...

Phyrexian Arena is still much better though.

[majikal]

That red leyline makes me sad. :(

Zoo does not need to get any better.

[jrsthethird]

Nantuko Shade is back:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/twtw/97

[majikal]

Phyrexian Arena is still much better though.
I disagree. Tutelage only costs 2B - much more splashable than Arena. Also, it plays well with Top/Crystal Ball so you might be able to draw a significant amount of cards without hurting yourself at all.

Edit: Looks like Leyline of the Void is reprinted as well, according to Mananation.com!

[heroicraptor]

I disagree. Tutelage only costs 2B - much more splashable than Arena. Also, it plays well with Top/Crystal Ball so you might be able to draw a significant amount of cards without hurting yourself at all.

In a format with such flexible mana bases, splashability is mostly moot. I suppose, but with Arena you don't have to spend the extra cards or mana to keep yourself from nuking life away. Tutelage also reveals the card, which means more information to your opponent, which is, the last time I checked, bad.

[majikal]

In a format with such flexible mana bases, splashability is mostly moot. I suppose, but with Arena you don't have to spend the extra cards or mana to keep yourself from nuking life away. Tutelage also reveals the card, which means more information to your opponent, which is, the last time I checked, bad.
We are talking about Legacy, right? Splashability is extremely relevant, especially in a format with 3+ color decks. For example, I don't think Tarmogoyf would see nearly as much play if its mana cost were GG. I would much rather make a light color commitment and cast something from a single off-color dual than have to fetch two of them just to cast a card that may very well be the only thing of that color.

I mean that's just looking at it in a vacuum. Obviously we already have Dark Confidant, so it probably won't see play anyway, except maybe in some Enlightened Tutor deck.

[MMogg]

One could argue that it's better than Confidant because let's face it, I have yet to see a Bob last more than 2-3 turns max, and usually he eats removal after 1 turn. In a format that will now be more than ever creature dependent/dominated, creature removal is a must, which means Bob is not as strong as Tutelage.

Edit: a lot of people say an unanswered Bob = gg, so I think this card deserves some testing, especially if it has better staying power than Confidant.

[conboy31]

That red leyline makes me sad. :(

Zoo does not need to get any better.

Really? My first impression was that it sucks for legacy. SB them in means they are taking out either burn or creatures, meaning a slower clock. If it is not in their opener by the time they get 4 mana (4 at the earliest, obviously, but probably turn 5 maybe even 6) you have probably played whatever cards you wanted to play that the leyline hoses.

Can you explain when this leyline would be good that it would make zoo better? It hoses Kitchen finks, COP red, story circle, pancakes, helix...baloth, loxodon, sword of L and S, warhammer, jitte...

[menace13]

Wow M11 has some good stuff. I like the red Leyline, but think Everlasting Torment is better: Withers away blockers can be hardcast more easily and splahable 2r. The BoB enchantment looks great.

[morgan_coke]

Just thinking out lout here, but does the red Leyline solve Goblins and Zoo's issues with Lands now? I mean, it shuts down both Zuran Orb and Glacial Chasm.

Also, does this make Burn a real deck now? Or is the loss of a card not worth the certainty of only having to deal 20 damage?

[majikal]

Just thinking out lout here, but does the red Leyline solve Goblins and Zoo's issues with Lands now? I mean, it shuts down both Zuran Orb and Glacial Chasm.
AND Maze of Ith. :\

[coraz86]

One could argue that it's better than Confidant because let's face it, I have yet to see a Bob last more than 2-3 turns max, and usually he eats removal after 1 turn. In a format that will now be more than ever creature dependent/dominated, creature removal is a must, which means Bob is not as strong as Tutelage.

Edit: a lot of people say an unanswered Bob = gg, so I think this card deserves some testing, especially if it has better staying power than Confidant.

Confidant turns sideways and can carry equipment, so whether you use Confidant or Tutelage depends at least partly on whether you can spare the slots for an enchantment that just draws cards. Granted, card draw is pretty spiffy, but a lot of decks I've seen use Bob want the body (with the exception of a handful of storm lists I've seen that boarded him).

There's also the fact that Tutelage costs an extra mana. Slower decks like Pox and Enchantress probably won't mind this; any kind of aggro probably will.

I would also testify that Bob is straight insane, and that I will be grabbing four Tutelage for other formats regardless of whether I find space in a Legacy deck for them.

[MMogg]

Confidant turns sideways and can carry equipment, so whether you use Confidant or Tutelage depends at least partly on whether you can spare the slots for an enchantment that just draws cards. Granted, card draw is pretty spiffy, but a lot of decks I've seen use Bob want the body (with the exception of a handful of storm lists I've seen that boarded him).

There's also the fact that Tutelage costs an extra mana. Slower decks like Pox and Enchantress probably won't mind this; any kind of aggro probably will.

I would also testify that Bob is straight insane, and that I will be grabbing four Tutelage for other formats regardless of whether I find space in a Legacy deck for them.

I agree, but the problem is, as I said, he doesn't live long. Usually 2-4 dmg is the most you're going to get out of him. Not sure . . . both seem to have respective advantages. It'll be an interesting test.

M11 is looking pretty cool.

[alphacat]

Well, in regards to Tutelage, I think it's still worse than DC and is on par with Arena depending on the deck.

Basically, DC comes out a turn faster, meaning you get one more card. The fact that it's a creature is both a blessing and a curse. It can be killed with creature removal, but it also means you have a way of getting rid of him in the event that you're running low on life. Tutelage, on the other hand, WILL kill you if enough time has elapsed and you don't have permanent deck manipulation.

Arena is better in MB decks, and worse if there is an additional color. The guy who says the double B in the casting cost doesn't matter is very much wrong. Requiring two B to cast means that you are forced to fetch out a specific dual, and thus, opening yourself up to get wastelanded and mana screwed.

All in all, I'm not that excited about this card for eternal.

[yankeedave]

I reckon Tutelage may be worth looking at as a black splash for Enchantress. I am in no way an Enchantress player, but under Solitary Confinement, you could stack the effects so you draw a card to the Tutelage and then descard it to the Conefinement. That seems pretty strong.

[edgewalker]

I reckon Tutelage may be worth looking at as a black splash for Enchantress. I am in no way an Enchantress player, but under Solitary Confinement, you could stack the effects so you draw a card to the Tutelage and then descard it to the Conefinement. That seems pretty strong.

Or you could play an enchantment and draw four+ cards the turn before so you're not splashing or taking unecessary damage.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Recent:
Serra Somethingorother :W:
Lifelink
If you have 30 or more life, ~ gets +5/+5 and flying
1/1


EDH, anyone?
I've been diddling with Martyr-Proc for about 20 minutes, and at times you land a 6/6 with Lifelink on tun 2. If they remove it, I've got Emeria, 'Lark, and Proc to bring it back. Maybe this is why they took everything before TSP out of Extended?

[morgan_coke]

Fragile Effigy
1
Artifact
4, T: Exile this and target creature.

Iona fix anyone? Also mandatory note about Trinket Mage.

[menace13]

Also hits Eldrazi.

[(nameless one)]

Fragile Effigy
1
Artifact
4, T: Exile this and target creature.

Iona fix anyone? Also mandatory note about Trinket Mage.

My prayers for Quinn has been answered... an answer to Iona that doesn't cost $50!

[dahcmai]

We have another winnar! Least, I'll play it. I've always had a thing for Deflection style cards and this one fixes a problem with Misdirection (cards with multiple targets)in exchange for actually paying mana. UU isn't too horrible either. No alternate casting cost, which is a bummer, but I bet I can find a place for two of them in a board here and there.


Deflect http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manau.gif (EDIT: Name is def. a different one, as D doesn't fit the number crunch. Just a literal translation though)
Instant (RARE)
You may choose new targets for target spell.
"Your strategy is extraordinary. I just adjusted a few minor details."
-Veris, Guardian of the fortress Indi
Illus. Izzy
Collectors Number: 71/249

[Nihil Credo]

I'm liking this set so far, but not because of any individual card.

First, they're apparently spreading more of the total power level on the rares (which also allows more chances for Legacy playables), instead of just printing broken cashcow mythics and few if any good rares. It's not certain that this was directly hurting Magic, but it was certainly causing a ton of whining.

Secondly, several of the M11 new cards involve more than just making cheap humongous guys and turning them sideways. Leylines, Bob Arena and good scrying cards, Voltaic Key trickery, lots of Reassembling Skeleton/Bloodghast abuse potential (Squadron Hawk too), Fauna Shaman toolboxery, and whatever is yet to be revealed. Cheap Walletslayer answers for every colour are always welcome, too.

The only thing I really, really hate is the Titan cycle, since they look boring to play with and quite hard to answer in Standard. It's the same problem I have with Bloodbraid Elf - card advantage should be earned, either by being expensive or by requiring some conditions to be fulfilled, and these guys don't offer any such challenge, except for the blue one (and very slightly for the white one).


Least, I'll play it. I've always had a thing for Deflection style cards and this one fixes a problem with Misdirection (cards with multiple targets)in exchange for actually paying mana. UU isn't too horrible either. No alternate casting cost, which is a bummer, but I bet I can find a place for two of them in a board here and there.Any specific example that might warrant boarding this? I can't think of any on the spot.

[menace13]

The set looks like drafting would be fun.

[Vacrix]

Recent:
Serra Somethingorother :W:
Lifelink
If you have 30 or more life, ~ gets +5/+5 and flying
1/1


EDH, anyone?
I've been diddling with Martyr-Proc for about 20 minutes, and at times you land a 6/6 with Lifelink on tun 2. If they remove it, I've got Emeria, 'Lark, and Proc to bring it back. Maybe this is why they took everything before TSP out of Extended?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106936&d=1278069597

It looks sick. Life Gain has never been particularly good but maybe we will see something playable with it?

[mujadaddy]

Fragile Effigy
1
Artifact
4, T: Exile this and target creature.

Iona fix anyone? Also mandatory note about Trinket Mage.
It's like a Reverse Nev's Disk. So, really, a "Ksid S'Larryniven"...

[Pastorofmuppets]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106936&d=1278069597

It looks sick. Life Gain has never been particularly good but maybe we will see something playable with it?

would you like to MWS it with me?

[DrJones]

That white monk is going to be sick in 2-head giant, in which teams start at 30 life. One mana 6/6 flying lifelink monster is good, and I think M11 is pushing lifegain decks so that they might become even playable in FNM.

The Leyline of the Void reprint is weird, but I'm not going to complain as it keeps its price lower and also takes away the fears of having to deal with that stupid Leyline.dec with 40 leylines and Opalescence.

EDIT: I'm not sure, but the life rules of 2-head giant might have been changed so that cards that look at a player's total life only see half that amount. In that case, it would be in fact worse in multiplayer.

Also, Wild Evocation seems the long awaited anti-eldrazi answer for decks playing Trinket Mage! Trinket Mage players rejoice.

[majikal]

Any specific example that might warrant boarding this? I can't think of any on the spot.
lol Pyrokinesis? Contagion?

In all seriousness it seems kind of useless in Legacy. It will be nice in EDH and (maybe) Standard, though.

[Finn]

I want to point out that Fragile Effigy can be sleazed with something like Flickerwisp off a Vial or any instant speed sacrifice effect.

Also, I am with Nihil on Deflect. For the same reason as Counterspell, it is going to be hard to find a home for that card despite its obvious coolness.

[Vacrix]

would you like to MWS it with me?
I'll let you know if I get it working on my MAC. No luck so far.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I'll let you know if I get it working on my MAC. No luck so far.

http://www.magic-league.com/phpBB/about10227.html
In the meantime, anyone else want to go against Martyr-Proc?

[Vacrix]

Legit I'll try what they are saying a little later.


Also, green gets moar burn!!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106948&d=1278090918

[morgan_coke]

thats some hardcore awesome flavor text. Nice to see Unyaro Bee Sting and Storm Seeker get a little love too.

[Heresy]

http://www.robotviking.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/elixir.jpg

This is the card that got my attention. I think it's perfectly costed and it shuffles all of your anwers!

[Barook]

Serra Ascendant has nice synergy with Ajani's Pridemate.

Too bad that most lifegain cards still suck.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Serra Ascendant has nice synergy with Ajani's Pridemate.

Too bad that most lifegain cards still suck.

Ajani's Pridemate + Eternity Vessel

[Barook]

Ajani's Pridemate + Eternity Vessel
Eternity Vessel only causes one proc per trigger. I would rather have Soul Warden or something similar that does the same job for less than :6:. :rolleyes:

[DrJones]

Ajani's Pridemate only gains +1/+1 even if you gain 20 lives at once. The best use of him is with cards like Kor Firewalker that constantly "pings" you with life.

[jrsthethird]

The Leyline of the Void reprint is weird, but I'm not going to complain as it keeps its price lower and also takes away the fears of having to deal with that stupid Leyline.dec with 40 leylines and Opalescence.

Good idea, I'm building it, just for kicks. It'll give them a reason to ban Enlightened Tutor. :rolleyes:

[Gheizen64]

I want to point out that Fragile Effigy can be sleazed with something like Flickerwisp off a Vial or any instant speed sacrifice effect.

Also, I am with Nihil on Deflect. For the same reason as Counterspell, it is going to be hard to find a home for that card despite its obvious coolness.

It exile itself as part of the cost, so no flicker sheanigans sadly, i would have loved to see slide/taxes a bit better.

Lol about the 30 Leyline 4 opalescence deck, i'm doing it asap :D

[Sims]

It exile itself as part of the cost, so no flicker sheanigans sadly, i would have loved to see slide/taxes a bit better.


I was going to argue this, but then i realized upon checking the spoiler that it was listed here wrong. The exile on Brittle Effigy is part of the cost, where if it was printed as templated in the original post here (like mangara) it could be sleazed. Nice catch.

[danyul]

http://www.mananation.com/brittle-effigy-hornet-sting-quag-sickness/

Check the last card. Reverberate. It's a Fork reprint without the clause requiring the copy to be red, which I guess is strictly better than Fork. What's interesting is that Fork is definitely on the reserved list. Could this mean that Wizards was being tricky with that list and may (someday) reprint cards under different names to get around their own rules? Something to think about.

[Barook]

Check the last card. Reverberate. It's a Fork reprint without the clause requiring the copy to be red, which I guess is strictly better than Fork. What's interesting is that Fork is definitely on the reserved list. Could this mean that Wizards was being tricky with that list and may (someday) reprint cards under different names to get around their own rules? Something to think about.
Actually, it's functionally different:


The complete list of reserved cards appears at the end of this document. Reserved cards will never be printed again in a functionally identical form. A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness.

[denial]

Copy target instant or sorcery spell, except that it copies Fork's color. You may choose new targets for the copy.

Yeah, thats the shifty little loophole they are using to get around that. So technically they could print a 0 cc enchantement called Jox Met that tapped for a black or some weird shit. Possibly Tarmogoyim for 1G who was */*+1 and add a NEW card type, like contraptions or something.

[denial]

And yes, before all the technical anal asshopes swoop in. I know goyf isnt on the reserved list, it was for conversations sake. Get a life.


Thanks.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

And yes, before all the technical anal asshopes swoop in. I know goyf isnt on the reserved list, it was for conversations sake. Get a life.


Thanks.

Actually, you're still wrong because the card types are in reminder text, not in the card's actual abilities.

You're welcome.

[3eowulf]

Actually, you're still wrong because the card types are in reminder text, not in the card's actual abilities.

You're welcome.

In fact, they could just change the creature type from "Lhurgoyf" to, say, "Troll".

This policy "doesn't make any sense!"

[denial]

Full warning for flaming. - Bardo

[Amon Amarth]

Awwww, somebody's on tilt.

I would like to take time out of my day to say lol. Just, lol.

Anyways this sets really looking good. I'm absolutely suprised at power level of some of these cards like Reverberate and Fauna Shaman. Great stuff for an expert level set.

[heroicraptor]

What is the point of hornet sting? It deals 1 damage for one mana: why in green?

I love how pissed off Maro is about it.

[MMogg]

thats some hardcore awesome flavor text. Nice to see Unyaro Bee Sting and Storm Seeker get a little love too.

And Bee Sting


I love how pissed off Maro is about it.

Huh?

[heroicraptor]

Huh?

https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17603730546
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17603820881
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17604108281
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17604742013
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17606194378

[Arsenal]

Sword of Vengeance. Nice combat abilities, but still not better than the current Swords.

[dschalter]

https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17603730546
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17603820881
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17604108281
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17604742013
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17606194378

doh.

[quadibloc]

Isn't this thread about the new cards? What's doing Voltaic Key here, then?Well, I think that the way this forum works is that a new thread is not made for each individual card that has been spoiled for the upcoming Magic: 2011 set.

As a result, this thread is considered to be the appropriate place to put all Magic: 2011 spoiler information, whether it concerns new cards or reprints.

Given that Voltaic Key was considered too powerful to put in the Mirrodin block, and was instead a part of the very overpowered Urza block, the decision to reprint this card for use in Standard is a very significant one with profound implications, so it is definitely a spoiler worthy of discussion.

It confirms that Scars of Mirrodin will be an artifact block, if there was any doubt.

Another person noted that it could be in Magic: 2011 because, particularly as an uncommon card, it would overwhelm drafting and other Limited formats involving the Scars block.

I think that the most significant thing about it, though, may be that it illustrates a benefit of the current rotation schedule. I had tended to feel that the Core Sets rotate out too soon, after only a little more than one year, instead of close to two years like everything else.

But precisely because the Core Set rotates out with the previous block, instead of the following block, if it contains certain very important cards that will make the decks work that are built from the block to follow... then putting those cards in the Core Set helps ensure that Standard Constructed will rotate, and the block following Scars block will not be another Kamigawa. Without the need for power inflation.

I think this is a clever way to protect the game of Magic, not an evil plot to sell more cards, and so I am inclined to praise Wizards rather than condemn it for this one, if indeed this is their plan.

[Hanni]

I like how Sword of Vengeance is strong both offensively and defensively. If it gave the creature lifelink, I'd say it was OP.

Unfortunately, a 3 mana cost to equip really sucks.

[Vacrix]

Jace's Erasure 1U
Enchantment
Whenever you draw a card, you may have target player put the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard.

Might Spring Tide play this?

[MMogg]

https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17603730546
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17603820881
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17604108281
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17604742013
https://twitter.com/maro254/status/17606194378

LOL Nice. I have this image of him marching up and down the hallways of Wizards of the Coast with a wastepaper basket on his head and a plunger in his hand screaming, "I AM THE COLOR PIE GURU!" :laugh: Fear him.

[SpikeyMikey]

Can Wild Evocation be better than Sneak Attack? The random reveal is rough, as is the extra 2 mana and your opponents ability to counter what you play with it. However, if it resolves they probably didn't have the counter to begin with, and the cast is important for things like Emrakul. It's also able to drop non-creature spells. It's a card to watch. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything strong enough to make it worth building a deck around this, however, it might be a sleeper.

[Barook]

Can Wild Evocation be better than Sneak Attack? The random reveal is rough, as is the extra 2 mana and your opponents ability to counter what you play with it. However, if it resolves they probably didn't have the counter to begin with, and the cast is important for things like Emrakul. It's also able to drop non-creature spells. It's a card to watch. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything strong enough to make it worth building a deck around this, however, it might be a sleeper.

Wild Evocation "suffers" from the same problem like Cursed Scroll - random isn't random anymore with only one card in your hand. Playing Emrakul for free is sexy, but you first have to reach the state AND Wild Evocation must survive the opponent's turn AND it still costs :5::r:.

:5::r: for something that doesn't do anything immediately and gives your opponent the same advantage doesn't sound that nice.

[SilverGreen]

Sword of Vengeance. Nice combat abilities, but still not better than the current Swords.Can't see it. What it reads?

[DownSyndromeKarl]

Can't see it. What it reads?

Sword of Vengeance
3
Artifact - Equipment
Eqipped creature gets +2/+0 and has First Strike, Vigilance, Trample and Haste.
Equip: 3

[sigfig8]

I don't think anyone's commented on Twincast yet. Could it be they are reprinting Fork? If so, would it really matter? I'd suspect Fork's value to drop at that point, much like Twincast did. Unless they print Fork at Mythic, which would be stupid.
A
As for essence scatter's removal - I agree counterspell won't be reprinted. I think having counterspell AND deprive in standard would just be begging for control to dominate. More likely they reprint deprive again or maybe stick with mana leak?

On June fifth I posted the above. Sweet, I predicted the Fork reprint correctly. And mana leak. Man, am I good! And you all doubted me! :tongue:

On Channelfireball, LSV predicts that the Jace they reprint for M11 will be the big one...does anyone else think that would make sense? Gotta get his value down so that people like me can play with it! I already spent all my money on FoW's, Goyfs, duals, fetches, etc. Can't afford to buy 80$ new cards too.

[DragoFireheart]

On June fifth I posted the above. Sweet, I predicted the Fork reprint correctly. And mana leak. Man, am I good! And you all doubted me! :tongue:

On Channelfireball, LSV predicts that the Jace they reprint for M11 will be the big one...does anyone else think that would make sense? Gotta get his value down so that people like me can play with it! I already spent all my money on FoW's, Goyfs, duals, fetches, etc. Can't afford to buy 80$ new cards too.


Why in the world would they reprint the good Jace? I mean, they could but I fail to see the reason...

[edgewalker]

Why in the world would they reprint the good Jace? I mean, they could but I fail to see the reason...

Because it's like $80. Jace costing $80 isn't good for anyone, if they do reprint him then he's the chace mythic for the set. Wizard's sells more product, more copies of Jace are in cirulation so the price goes down, everyone's happy. I mean some people would be upset because they're holding onto Jace to make a huge profit, unfortunately, Jace isn't worth shit until they actually sell it, so it's a dumb reason.

[DragoFireheart]

Because it's like $80. Jace costing $80 isn't good for anyone, if they do reprint him then he's the chace mythic for the set. Wizard's sells more product, more copies of Jace are in cirulation so the price goes down, everyone's happy. I mean some people would be upset because they're holding onto Jace to make a huge profit, unfortunately, Jace isn't worth shit until they actually sell it, so it's a dumb reason.

First off, when has wizards ever cared about the secondary market?

Second, Wouldn't that essentially phase out the old jace? Seems like bad design to already phase out a planeswalker when they are still a relatively new concept.

[Deviruchi]

Players would be happy to see both form of Jace reprinted with 2.0 as a mythic. Not sure how much Wizards care about secondary market but I think they should think about problems for people to get 4 Jaces 2.0. They should reprint both Jaces or print some cheap epic hoser for planeswalkers in a way Null Rod exist for artifacts.

[edgewalker]

First off, when has wizards ever cared about the secondary market?

Second, Wouldn't that essentially phase out the old jace? Seems like bad design to already phase out a planeswalker when they are still a relatively new concept.

Printing new Jace, the first time phased out old Jace! He's only good for blocking new Jace now. And wizard's cares about the secondary market when it involves their two babies Standard and new Extended. People will leave standard for the same reason they leave Legacy. Jace is too good not to play, and he's way to good to just pick up and buy. You can't draft for him, since Worldwake was only drafted for like 3 weeks. It's bad enough you have to get new cards when set's rotate, it's another when THE BEST card costs $80. I mean it's bad enough Vengevine is $40-50. Reprinting big Jace will keep people in standard longer, which means more money for wizards.

EDIT: Ontopic, I've gotten real bored of drafting ROE ROE ROE.

Step 1 Force Gxx Ramp
Step 2
Step 3 Profit

I for one am amped to start drafting M11, way more depth than M10 had.

[DrJones]

Jace's Erasure 1U
Enchantment
Whenever you draw a card, you may have target player put the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard.

Might Spring Tide play this?No, Spring Tide is not a milling deck, it doesn't benefit from slowly milling the opponent. However, I see that you can use that enchantment to mill yourself, which time and time again has been proved to be a stronger tactic.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106877&d=1277957022

I'm trying to wrap my head around this one... Seems like a very powerful ability (especially combined with the ability to be played for free sometimes). But I can't really think of any existing decks that would want to use it. Anyone have any ideas?

[Volrath]

Aether Vial does what that thing does, and better to if i might ad.

[Shawon]

Leyline of Anticipation + Life from the Loam = EOT Ancestral?

[paK0]

On Channelfireball, LSV predicts that the Jace they reprint for M11 will be the big one...does anyone else think that would make sense? Gotta get his value down so that people like me can play with it! I already spent all my money on FoW's, Goyfs, duals, fetches, etc. Can't afford to buy 80$ new cards too.



I think reprinting Jace 2.0 would be reasonable. Given all the Jace cards it seems safe to assume that Jace and not Tezzeret will be the U Planeswalker. However we already got 4 Jaces 1.0 (Lorwyn, M10, Duel Decks, and that Book Promo) as well as the new Japanese one coming up, so we are not really in desperate need of another print.

[MULocke]

Leyline of Anticipation + Life from the Loam = EOT Ancestral?

The question here is, why do you need to endstep the loam? To make it better, you need to get more value out of it. But in loam decks, you very rarely have instants that you would otherwise hold mana open for, meaning you get very little added value out of loam being an instant. The leyline is good in decks where they play both instants and sorcery speed spells that aren't creatures (Vial is better) and often have the dilemma of casting a spell or leaving mana open. I don't think this deck really exists.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Leyline of Anticipation doesn't fit in any current deck that I know of, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad. And Aether Vial is better at its particular job, yeah, but it only does creatures, so I don't think that means this card is outclassed automatically.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I'll predict that new Jace will be printed. Jace's Erasure would be unplayable bad with the old Jace, and the Planeswalker named cards seem to be designed to actually be good with their respective Planeswalkers.

[jazzykat]

If Jace TM isn't reprinted then WoTC would be acting hypocritical. They say Legacy is too expensive it would be ironic if the cost of Standard is really high...

[sigfig8]

I'll predict that new Jace will be printed. Jace's Erasure would be unplayable bad with the old Jace, and the Planeswalker named cards seem to be designed to actually be good with their respective Planeswalkers.

I agree here. Jace 2.0 in M11 makes perfect sense. Little Jace pales in comparison already, and he just seems anti-climactic in the set. Let's face it, giving your opponents card advantage with the hopes of eventually getting some yourself is just weak. But we'll find out soon enough.

I do think Wizards cares about the secondary market (or at least they pretend to). Why else have the stupid reserved list? If the secondary market was irrelevant, then Wizards woudl have reprinted duals a long time ago.

[SpikeyMikey]

First off, when has wizards ever cared about the secondary market?

Second, Wouldn't that essentially phase out the old jace? Seems like bad design to already phase out a planeswalker when they are still a relatively new concept.

I hear people say this, but I've never figured out where such a silly idea came from. Perhaps because Wizards doesn't engage in secondary market sales directly? Whatever the rationale behind that phrase, it is patently false. I thought that this argument had been buried long ago. Say around the time that the Invitational dumped Vintage because the pros were havng a hard time acquiring the necessary cards. But even if that didn't kill this pernicious rumor, the recent explanation of New Extended as a means of supplanting Legacy because of the latter's restricted card supply and high entry barrier should have. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Wizards pays more attention to secondary markets than anyone on these forums. Secondary markets are a direct driving force for the primary market, ergo it is very important to Wizards financial health to monitor them.

[MMogg]

Jace2 is in Worldwake, which is Standard legal for over another year. I don't think they will print him in a core set when he is still in print in Worldwake. Baneslayer in M11 makes sense because she is not legal after the rotation of M10, and once M11 hits the streets, M10 is no longer in print.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It would hardly be the first time that a card from the preceding block had been reprinted in a core set, although it might be the first time it was a chase rare.

[MMogg]

It would hardly be the first time that a card from the preceding block had been reprinted in a core set, although it might be the first time it was a chase rare.

But core sets used to be every two years, now they are annual. So printing Jace2 in M11 has zero impact on legality in Standard. I can see, however, them maybe printing him in M12 to continue to make him Standard legal for one more year.

[from Cairo]

It will keep booster sales high if they can market this set as having Jace and BSA as Mythics, both of these cards still have high demand, and printing more would make them more accessible (through packs / increased supply -> lower prices).

[dschalter]

The problem with printing Jace 2.0 is that the price insanity is fairly recent, at least when compared to the M10 development cycle. If Jace had been in Zendikar, I could see it, but unless they want to straight up phase out Jace 1.0 I don't see this happening.

Also, the Jace's Erasure argument is silly, because Wizards will always print terrible mill cards (not saying that they don't print 'good' cards for mill, but throughout its history, Magic has been graced with countless awful, awful mill cards).

[DrJones]

It looks like someone has pulled from a booster this monster:

***** Leviathan 5UUU
8/8
Islandwalk
All lands are Islands in addition to their original type.
Creatures without flying or islandwalk can't attack.
Rare

That card is freaking ridiculous. Blue Form of the Dragon?

[Vacrix]

Holy shit. That thing is ridic. Might we see the SnT/Eureka decks playing this? Its still vulnerable to removal but it does shut down aggro for a few turns..

[Volrath]

It looks like someone has pulled from a booster this monster:

***** Leviathan 5UUU
8/8
Islandwalk
All lands are Islands in addition to their original type.
Creatures without flying or islandwalk can't attack.
Rare

That card is freaking ridiculous. Blue Form of the Dragon?

Where did you get that?, it's not even on salvation's spoilers yet.

[Mark Sun]

Where did you get that?, it's not even on salvation's spoilers yet.

Someone with like 40 posts claims that a friend at his local shop has the card in hand.

...so yeah. That's about as concrete as it gets.

[morgan_coke]

The Leviathan is a really interesting update on the old Island Sanctuary clause.

[Aggro_zombies]

Someone with like 40 posts claims that a friend at his local shop has the card in hand.

...so yeah. That's about as concrete as it gets.
I've seen the same card. The art is of a giant fish wreaking havoc off of a coastal settlement.

There was a promotion at some convention someplace where Wizards gave out tons of M11 boosters. A guy at our shop opened one and this was the rare. I need one for Vorosh....

EDIT: Card is worse than Blazing Archon. I mean, yeah, it makes your Inkwell Leviathan unblockable versus Zoo, but it's also REB and Pyroblast-able.

[Mark Sun]

I've seen the same card. The art is of a giant fish wreaking havoc off of a coastal settlement.

There was a promotion at some convention someplace where Wizards gave out tons of M11 boosters. A guy at our shop opened one and this was the rare. I need one for Vorosh....

EDIT: Card is worse than Blazing Archon. I mean, yeah, it makes your Inkwell Leviathan unblockable versus Zoo, but it's also REB and Pyroblast-able.

I actually just got on MTGS in time for then to post a picture (just the art, no card text). Now I'm waiting for the actual thing to be spoiled. Cool though.

[Hanni]

Moat on an 8/8 unblockable is nice. No Shroud means it eats Swords all day long, though. Not really sure what matchups Reanimator would bring this guy in for.

[DrJones]

Moat on an 8/8 unblockable is nice. No Shroud means it eats Swords all day long, though. Not really sure what matchups Reanimator would bring this guy in for.Aggro-Elves

[Infinitium]

Regretfully it does nothing that Blazing Archon doesn't already do better, except maybe be a marginally faster clock. Awesome flavor though.

[Nihil Credo]

Around 2015 or so there should be enough stuff for a playable Quest for Ula's Temple deck.

[xTrainx]

I'm predicting a Trinket Mage reprint in Scars.

Too many 1 cost artifacts.

[dschalter]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/mm/mm98_jace.jpg

Jace 1.0 confirmed.

[whienot]

Would Belcher play Orim's Chant if it were green?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107035&d=1278302906

[MMogg]

@ Autumn's Veil... doubt it, but worth testing sideboard slots for, which are always meta-dependent anyway.

So, looking through the visual spoiler, I see Platinum Angel is being printed again! Four print runs now, she's getting less and less mythic. Houseflies are going to be more mythic than she is.

[routlaw]

They'd still lose to Stifle (targets the Storm trigger or Belcher activation), and it would cost an extra mana on the turn they want to go off. Seems pretty decent otherwise.

[Aggro_zombies]

Jace 1.0 confirmed.
So, is it official now that you need to either play mono-red or pay $240-$320 plus the cost of the rest of your deck to play Standard?

[cseraph]

That's been the case for a while now, yes.

[(nameless one)]

So, is it official now that you need to either play mono-red or pay $240-$320 plus the cost of the rest of your deck to play Standard?

I lost track of Standard long time ago, I am guessing that Vampires are not even viable? (Well, they did lose Nocturnus)

[dschalter]

I lost track of Standard long time ago, I am guessing that Vampires are not even viable? (Well, they did lose Nocturnus)

Vamps has never been viable. A 20-80 matchup against the most played deck in the format tends to do that.

[(nameless one)]

Hey guys,

Check this out:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107031&d=1278301032

[lordofthepit]

Hey guys,

Check this out:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107031&d=1278301032

Love the art and the flavor.

It's not as good as Maze of Ith in 43 Lands, but I bet some decks will at least consider running this, whereas Maze of Ith wasn't an option since it didn't produce mana.

[Hanni]

A Maze of Ith that taps for mana? That looks frickin sweet. I was looking for a replacement for Mishra's Factory in my no-longer-Landstill control deck, and I'm pretty sure that's it.

[majikal]

Hey guys,

Check this out:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107031&d=1278301032
Noooo! Why does it have to cost 4 to activate? I had such high hopes for this card. :(

I'll still try it in MUD though. Seems like an effect the deck needs... only wish it was cheaper.

[Hanni]

Noooo! Why does it have to cost 4 to activate? I had such high hopes for this card. :(

I'll still try it in MUD though. Seems like an effect the deck needs... only wish it was cheaper.

4 mana to activate isn't that big of a deal for a control deck. If you happen to drop it early, it still taps for mana. Once you make enough land drops, it can be a backup plan that blanks an attacker in situations where you don't have an immediate answer, giving you time to draw into real removal. I also like how it is an uncounterable, virtual removal spell. I know Maze of Ith is also an uncounterable, virtual removal spell... but it also doesn't tap for mana. Maze of Ith still seems way stronger in Lands.dec, but I'm cutting 4 Mishra's Factories for 4 of these in my control deck. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17904-U-W-x-Planeswalker-Counterbalance-Control)

[Aggro_zombies]

4 mana to activate isn't that big of a deal for a control deck. If you drop it early, it taps for mana. Once you get enough land drops going, it can be a default to blank attackers until the deck can draw into real removal. I also like how it is an uncounterable, virtual removal spell. I know Maze of Ith is also an uncounterable, virtual removal spell... but it also costs a land drop. Maze of Ith still seems way stronger in Lands.dec, but I'm cutting 4 Mishra's Factories for 4 of these in my control deck. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17904-U-W-x-Planeswalker-Counterbalance-Control)
This seems incredibly awful, considering that all of the copies of this you draw after the first are basically blanks until the very, very late game.

[Hanni]

This seems incredibly awful, considering that all of the copies of this you draw after the first are basically blanks until the very, very late game.

True, but Mishra's Factory has been horrible in my deck, and I don't really need lands that tap for colored mana. Meaning I have space for 4 utility lands, and this one seems way better than Mishra's Factory. You are right though, extra copies past the first are dead. I guess it all depends on how strong of an effect having one in play is vs what other utility lands I could also fit in the deck. That's a discussion for a different thread though.

Regardless of how many copies is the right amount to run, I'm still putting this into my control deck.

This set has me more excited than any of the sets that have been printed in a long time, and it's a CORE set. lulz

EDIT: After thinking about it Aggro Zombies, in that deck, I'm not sure if 4 would entirely be awful. The deck runs an assload of cantrip/manipulate effects to make sure it's not drawing excess of them. Even if I do draw excess, sometimes the opponent will have Wasteland. I'm not saying that 4 is the right number, it's something that needs playtested before I determine anything, but I wouldn't immediately agree that 4 is awful without testing it first. The best part about running multiples is that even if I do draw multiples with no way to shuffle them back, they can still come down and tap for mana. They aren't Legenedary, so it's not hurting to draw/play multiples. I have alot of colorless costs in my deck (Planeswalker's/WoG/Top).

[Aggro_zombies]

True, but Mishra's Factory has been horrible in my deck, and I don't really need lands that tap for colored mana. Meaning I have space for 4 utility lands, and this one seems way better than Mishra's Factory. You are right though, extra copies past the first are dead. I guess it all depends on how strong of an effect having one in play is vs what other utility lands I could also fit in the deck. That's a discussion for a different thread though.

Regardless of how many copies is the right amount to run, I'm still putting this into my control deck.

This set has me more excited than any of the sets that have been printed in a long time, and it's a CORE set. lulz
The other thing to consider is that this card has basically existed since Nemesis, and is named "Kor Haven".

Something else to consider: on the one hand, you don't want to use it to Slide out creatures with CiP abilities. On the other hand, most of the format's playable CiP guys are not the scariest monsters that will come after you during the attack step, so that part may be irrelevant.

[Hanni]

Kor Haven is solid, but it's Legendary. This card is not Legendary. Awesome find though, I totally forgot about Kor Haven. I'm gonna toss a single Kor Haven in my deck, too. =]

I'm thinking a 3/1 split of Mystifing Maze and Kor Haven would be awesome. That's the config I'd like to test first, and then go from there.

While this land may be bad against creatures with CIP abilities, it's good against creature tokens like Marit Lage, as well as stolen creatures via something like a Sower of Temptation.

[Aggro_zombies]

Kor Haven is solid, but it's Legendary. This card is not Legendary. Awesome find though, I totally forgot about Kor Haven. I'm gonna toss a single Kor Haven in my deck, too. =]

While this land may be bad against creatures with CIP abilities, it's good against creature tokens like Marit Lage, as well as stolen creatures via something like a Sower of Temptation.
No, but it's sort of legendary because it costs :5: to fog a single creature, which means you'd need a fuckton of mana to have more than one active at once.

[cseraph]

Activating two is not the legendary issue. Being able to play out several without screwing yourself is the issue.

Think it is probably a fringe card in format but should see definite t2 play.

Nice to see a card that rewards t2 colour discipline as well, the 3 colour good stuff madness has to be rolled back a bit.

[Hanni]

No, but it's sort of legendary because it costs to fog a single creature, which means you'd need a fuckton of mana to have more than one active at once.

Right, but it's not actually Legendary, so I can put multiples in play and still have them tap for mana. Honestly, that's all Mishra's Factory has been doing for me lately anyway, is just tapping for mana. I'm rarely wanting to go beatdown with them and I'm rarely getting use out of them as a blocker. Looking at it that way, running excess Mystifying Maze isn't going to be any different.

Maybe I'd go to a 2/1 split of Maze and Kor Haven and run an extra Tundra or something, I dunno. I need to playtest it. The point I was trying to make was that multiples aren't useless because they still tap for mana.

[morgan_coke]

Between Mystifying Maze and Brittle Effigy M11 now has 8 colorless ways for decks to deal with Iona. Wonder if that was on purpose and if there are any more coming?

Also spoiled is a seven mana wildfire that hits lands and creatures for 5 instead of 4. No idea if that + monolith is enough to make wildfire playable, but it is available now.

[Hanni]

Also spoiled is a seven mana wildfire that hits lands and creatures for 5 instead of 4. No idea if that + monolith is enough to make wildfire playable, but it is available now.

So... many...good...cards...in...one...set....ahhhh...

[Aggro_zombies]

Activating two is not the legendary issue. Being able to play out several without screwing yourself is the issue.

Think it is probably a fringe card in format but should see definite t2 play.
Yes, but:

1) A deck built to use Kor Haven to fog creatures will have both a lower number of Kor Havens (1-2), and some way to find them (1-2 Tolaria West, perhaps), as well as more colored sources of mana. Having more colored mana is actually useful as it helps prevent decks with Wasteland from keeping you off specific colors.

2) The second Maze is basically a blank because, in most cases, you're just tapping it to pay for the activation of the first Maze. That makes it worse than having something like a dual or a basic, which are much better at helping to pay for your spells (and in the case of the basic, are also immune to Wasteland). Furthermore, if your deck has low colored mana requirements, there are many lands that have both useful effects and tap for colorless - see: Wasteland, Academy Ruins, Dust Bowl, Mishra's Factory, etc. Factory and Crucible do almost as good a job at blanking creatures as this land does, but Factory also beats down and Crucible has other applications (and basically the only flying creatures that see lots of play are tokens or Vendillion Clique, and you don't want to use this land on Clique).

3) Playing out several of these Mazes implies a Maze-heavy draw, which means you'll probably be screwed for colors in any deck that's not some sort of Monolith/"big mana" shell.

This card might be fine as a 1-2-of in decks that find manaless Maze of Ith intolerable, but going past that is asking for serious diminishing returns, especially if you're in a blue/white/x shell with Brainstorm, Jace, and maybe Top.

EDIT: When I said the card was "sort of legendary," I meant "like most legendary cards, you're not really keen on seeing more than one."

[Vacrix]

Would Belcher play Orim's Chant if it were green?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107035&d=1278302906
I just shit myself. PSI is going to make beautiful, beautiful love to this card. It already has plenty of access to green mana, often extra green mana that it can't use for anything else actually. A green chant is exactly what it needs to be an amazing deck. Belcher might not play it because they need to use so many resources to go off (usually 5-7 cards), but SI needs only 3 and sometimes 4 or 5. WoTC fucked up.
And I'm like a pig in shit right now!!! WOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[morgan_coke]

The nice thing about Autumn Veil is that it's actually a counter counterspell. You cast your spell. They counter it. You reply with Veil. Your now uncounterable spell resolves, effectively countering the counterspell.

Also, if you're in green and combo, why not just run Xantid Swarm? Fragility issues?

[(nameless one)]

Would Belcher play Orim's Chant if it were green?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107035&d=1278302906

It's unfortunate that CounterTop gets around that ability.

Oh well, can't complain.

[Hanni]

EDIT: When I said the card was "sort of legendary," I meant "like most legendary cards, you're not really keen on seeing more than one."

I understand what you are getting at. From a general deckbuilding perspective, you are completely right.

My perspective was specific to my control deck, which is running 4 Mishra's Factories that have been rarely doing anything other than tapping for mana. Since the new Maze looked like it would be more relevant for me than Mishra's Factory, that's why I initially thought a direct swap would be in order. However, Kor Haven is awesome tech that I forgot about, so now I can do an X/1 split of Maze/Haven. Whether the split be 3/1, 2/1, or 1/1 is something I'd rather hammer out in actual testing.

PS: Thanks for reminding me about Kor Haven.

[Vacrix]

The nice thing about Autumn Veil is that it's actually a counter counterspell. You cast your spell. They counter it. You reply with Veil. Your now uncounterable spell resolves, effectively countering the counterspell.

Also, if you're in green and combo, why not just run Xantid Swarm? Fragility issues?
Well its great in addition to Swarm. x8 protection post-board is pretty amazing. Can't wait to pick up a playset.

[Elfrago]

I understand what you are getting at. From a general deckbuilding perspective, you are completely right.

My perspective was specific to my control deck, which is running 4 Mishra's Factories that have been rarely doing anything other than tapping for mana. Since the new Maze looked like it would be more relevant for me than Mishra's Factory, that's why I initially thought a direct swap would be in order. However, Kor Haven is awesome tech that I forgot about, so now I can do an X/1 split of Maze/Haven. Whether the split be 3/1, 2/1, or 1/1 is something I'd rather hammer out in actual testing.

PS: Thanks for reminding me about Kor Haven.

Then go with a 1/1/2 or 1/2/1 split of Haven, Maze and Mishra/Whateveryoulike

[Deviruchi]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107035&d=1278302906

They used phrase "or black spells" because they printed green hate vs green enemy colors or they will print black counterspell ? I don't think they care much about Dash Hopes or Withering Boon.

[MMogg]

They used phrase "or black spells" because they printed green hate vs green enemy colors or they will print black counterspell ? I don't think they care much about Dash Hopes or Withering Boon.

I doubt it. I think it was to keep the whole card balanced and the second part of the effect is very relevant for black's slice of the color pie.

[Pastorofmuppets]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/mm/mm98_jace.jpg

Jace 1.0 confirmed.

Confirmed where?
Also, on the whole "go red or go home" thing, the titans seem like they were designed to balance out Jace. I'm working on a Wildfire deck right now. I want to run 4 Death Titan but I can't, because Jace. So I'm stuck with 3 Inferno, 2 Primeval. Oh, and 4 Mitotic Slime. Feels good, man.

[3eowulf]

Confirmed where?
Also, on the whole "go red or go home" thing, the titans seem like they were designed to balance out Jace. I'm working on a Wildfire deck right now. I want to run 4 Death Titan but I can't, because Jace. So I'm stuck with 3 Inferno, 2 Primeval. Oh, and 4 Mitotic Slime. Feels good, man.

Confirmed in the image you quoted: look under the artist line...

[Atwa]

Confirmed in the image you quoted: look under the artist line...

This comment got me thinking, but after looking at a few images, I realised the centering and white letters in the copyrightline were different then the other M11 blue cards, but some research thought me M10 had the same difference between planeswalkers and "normal" cards.

At first I thought wizards was trying to fool us with posting a M10 or Lorwyin Jace behind the 2 other cards, but I noticed the other 4 colors had the same differences.

Seeing the Jace in the pic has the © 1993-2010 copyright notice at the bottom makes be believe we can consider Jace 1.0 to be confirmed for M11.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

They used phrase "or black spells" because they printed green hate vs green enemy colors or they will print black counterspell ? I don't think they care much about Dash Hopes or Withering Boon.

They'Re reprinting Deathgrip. :tongue:

[TheRock]

A Leyline that acts like Ivory Mask?

I was pretty pissed when they reprinted Void, but this doesn't help matters.

[Mark Sun]

A Leyline that acts like Ivory Mask?

I was pretty pissed when they reprinted Void, but this doesn't help matters.

Looks like someone at WOTC headquarters had their panties in a bunch and wanted to throw combo yet another roadblock.

[markbris]

Looks like someone at WOTC headquarters had their panties in a bunch and wanted to throw combo yet another roadblock.

lol sweet anti-combo tech on turn 0 for all colors.

[Barook]

lol sweet anti-combo tech on turn 0 for all colors.

It also makes discard and burn worse. This Leyline is a damn good sideboard card.

[Azdraël]

Didnt find anything on this, where is the link please?

if it is true, I feel like going to fly to WotC basement and shoot at them.

[Aleksandr]

Awesome, I just build AnT, so they kill it with B/R, than this Leyline nonsense... :rolleyes:

Ok WotC, if you wish to, I will kill with ermakul. Because it is much less frustrating than losing to lethal Tendrils and everyone loves creature comback, too.

I. HATE. THIS. GAME.

[Barook]

Didnt find anything on this, where is the link please?

if it is true, I feel like going to fly to WotC basement and shoot at them.

Better buy your ticket now:

Confirmed here by Captain Black (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=248241&page=28)

For your info: Captain Black is a wizard employee who is responsible for spoiling stuff. It's legit.

[Puzzle]

So, Enchantress can now deny burn and discard strategies, as well as going possibly positive against ANT, Belcher and all sorts of Tendrils, all thanks to a castable enchantment.
Looks like it's got potential to do really well in the coming months.

[morgan_coke]

So if you assume that Leyline of Punishment is good vs. lands, (turns off Maze, Chasm, and Orb) and Leyline of Ivory Mask is good vs. combo, did Zoo just lose all its bad matchups? It's worth nothing that for Zoo, the white Leyline could also be good in the mirror, turning off opposing burn to the face.

[HumphreyBogardan]

So, Enchantress can now deny burn and discard strategies, as well as going possibly positive against ANT, Belcher and all sorts of Tendrils, all thanks to a castable enchantment.
Looks like it's got potential to do really well in the coming months.

Maybe not so much belcher since it has access to green. That new card back to nature is better than any mass enchantment sweeper I've ever seen.

[Puzzle]

Maybe not so much belcher since it has access to green. That new card back to nature is better than any mass enchantment sweeper I've ever seen.It has access to green but the mana and search it would spend getting rid of the Leyline means a much slower kill, at which point Sterling Grove + Confinment + other Leyline copies can drown the Belcher player.
Belcher doesn't have much in the way of redundancy and consistency.

@Vacrix :
Duress. Target opponent...
Thoughtseize. Target player...

[HumphreyBogardan]

I lost track of Standard long time ago, I am guessing that Vampires are not even viable? (Well, they did lose Nocturnus)

Yeah lost nocturnus but if you read the flavor text on the card elixir...something or other (uncommon artifact, sac it to gain life) it's a quote from Baron Sengir. So maybe he'll be back as the new vamp lord?

[Vacrix]

Wow the White Leyline is a bitch move. Then again, they printed another Chant so I can't complain.. I think people will realize its bad. Nobody plays Burn these days anyway. Storm combo? We still play EtW.. and often Burning Wish. Also, you have to mulligan like a bitch to get it out, in which case you give combo plenty of time to set up a way to answer it.

[Puzzle]

Wow the White Leyline is a bitch move. Then again, they printed another Chant so I can't complain.. I think people will realize its bad. Nobody plays Burn these days anyway. Storm combo? We still play EtW.. and often Burning Wish. Also, you have to mulligan like a bitch to get it out, in which case you give combo plenty of time to set up a way to answer it.If it's that bad against combo, why do you consider mulliganing into it "like a bitch" as the right move ?

[markbris]

I like the progression of combo hate haha,

1st you get hate bears like ethersworn canonist and gaddock teeg. They're too slow though so you get....

mindbreak trap, now you have a free counterspell in any color, but it gets duressed too often, so you get...

white leyline, now you have free hate and it comes down before it can be countered or duressed.

[HumphreyBogardan]

It has access to green but the mana and search it would spend getting rid of the Leyline means a much slower kill, at which point Sterling Grove + Confinment + other Leyline copies can drown the Belcher player.
Belcher doesn't have much in the way of redundancy and consistency.


Good point, plus I just realised it's not a wish target, which would offer some consistency but ultimately slow it down as you said.

[Vacrix]

If it's that bad against combo, why do you consider mulliganing into it "like a bitch" as the right move ?
Oh its not the right move. The right move is to play hatebears like Teeg and Cannonist. Bears actually contribute to your clock while Leyline just sits there.. and is actually hard to cast after turn 0. People will definitely try this card out, only to find out its really bad. Mulliganing 'like a bitch' is just wasting the combo players time. Rarely are you actually going to win. You give the combo player hours to set up when you mulligan to 5 with 0 land for your precious leyline. Thats why I used the phrase 'like a bitch'. At least combo players are nice and its over quickly... except Solidarity. Solidarity players make you sit there pissed the entire time regretting not having conceded the moment they say, High Tide? ;D

Also, Doomsday completely ignores it. Especially if you are playing FT with Emrakul.

[Puzzle]

Oh its not the right move. The right move is to play hatebears like Teeg and Cannonist. Bears actually contribute to your clock while Leyline just sits there.. and is actually hard to cast after turn 0. People will definitely try this card out, only to find out its really bad. Mulliganing 'like a bitch' is just wasting the combo players time. Rarely are you actually going to win. You give the combo player hours to set up when you mulligan to 5 with 0 land for you leyline. Thats why I used the phrase 'like a bitch'. :P
Also, Doomsday completely ignores it. Especially if you are playing FT with Emrakul.Fair enough.
I had more in mind decks like Enchantress and Stax but if you need the clock, then I agree that bears are likely better.

[Aggro_zombies]

People crying about the white Leyline need to realize something:

Leyline of the Void barely gets played in Legacy, despite being one of the best (if not the best) graveyard hate cards in the format (and available to every color!), because your chances of opening it are so poor, assuming you run the maximum number (it's less than 40% IIRC). Your chances of getting one actually go down the more you mulligan trying to find one. Very few decks not already capable of hardcasting Leyline of the Void are interested in mulliganing into oblivion just to open on a hate card.

Ivory Mask is both completely fair, and completely too slow, at four mana. Very few decks are so desperate for this effect that they will be willing to take the Leyline Gamble in order to have it.

An aside: this is also why Leyline of Anticipation is not good in this format.

[Infinitium]

True, but then you also have to consider that whilst there are cheap, artifact alternatives to Leyline of the Void and that legacy GY-based decks are slow enough to render the aforementioned artifacts relevant even if played on a later turn. I guess that the closest Tormod analogy to this is chalice@0, which is often too slow against Belcher or QSI and can be played around by TES and DDTendrils. It will see sideboard play in Zoo builds aiming to beat combo, possibly even maindeck play in Enchantress as it fills a previously unoccupied niche.

[Mark Sun]

Leyline of the Void barely gets played in Legacy, despite being one of the best (if not the best) graveyard hate cards in the format (and available to every color!), because your chances of opening it are so poor, assuming you run the maximum number (it's less than 40% IIRC). Your chances of getting one actually go down the more you mulligan trying to find one. Very few decks not already capable of hardcasting Leyline of the Void are interested in mulliganing into oblivion just to open on a hate card.

Clearly you Serum Powder that bitch. I'm actually more unhappy about the card because of how many dead cards I'll accumulate playing Red in T2. Was actually enjoying running 12 LD spells main in a format.

[Jak]

I am not saying, "don't trust the dude", but he said...


The white Leyline is basically an Ivory Mask with the Leyline wording.

Emphasis added. That can mean so many things and overreacting right now is pretty stupid.

[routlaw]

Clearly you Serum Powder that bitch..

I was actually wondering if some decks (like Zoo or non-blue decks that lack the cantrips to dig and hand sculpt) might not try a SB with 4-ofs for the White Leyline and Leyline of the Void with some number of powders.

It's a lot easier to find boarded in hate in blue decks with ponder/brainstorm than it is in a deck like Zoo, where if you don't have it in your opening grip the game might not last long enough to see many more cards.

[Infinitium]

I suppose Wildfire.dec could actually afford to run serum powder main instead of Signets or whatever, which definetly opens up for Leyline shenanigans postside.

[Grollub]

Leyline of the Mask wont do anything against combo, it stops their kill not their engine. Might be an issue for type 2 combo decks, but certainly not Legacy's...

[Aggro_zombies]

Leyline of the Mask wont do anything against combo, it stops their kill not their engine. Might be an issue for type 2 combo decks, but certainly not Legacy's...
This, especially considering the removal cards for hate bears (bounce) and Counterbalance (Grip) both hit this card.

[DrJones]

The white Leyline has potential to be awesome, until now white was pathetically bad against combo, and while this card alone doesn't make you win the game, it gives you enough time to play more effective cards that previously were too slow to matter in those matchups.

Does the print of Reverberate mean that wizards is willingful to "almost reprint" cards in the reserved list if required?

[morgan_coke]

I think the best comp on Mask Leyline is True Believer, same effect on a hatebear. It sees no play in place of Teeg and Canonist. Part of that is casting cost (WW is tougher for most decks than WG or 1W) but it's also partly because many of the decks you'd want that effect against are eminently capable of wasting a 2/2. Putting the effect on an Enchantment or an Instant for that matter (see Gilded Light) changes the equation quite a bit, putting it on an enchantment that can begin the game in play is huge, because it gives non-blue decks a chance against the dreaded T1 kill.

I don't think opening it vs. combo is a "win" anymore that opening Leyline of the Void is a "win" against Dredge or Loam or Lands. But it sure does help, and at the very least likely buys you a few turns so that you can actually play in the game. I think it will see at least Void levels of play in Legacy, and possibly more given the lower number of alternatives and the sheer variety of spells and effects it neuters, from Chants to burn to discard to edicts to Gifts Ungiven to various planeswalker abilities - looking at you fatesealing Jace2.

From a pure "hose combo" perspective, Rule of Law would have been a better leyline, but this is definitely more interesting, and much less likely to be broken.

[(nameless one)]

Does the print of Reverberate mean that wizards is willingful to "almost reprint" cards in the reserved list if required?

By the looks of it, yes. We did get a "fixed" Maze of Ith and Survival of the Fittest with legs.

[Nihil Credo]

I am not saying, "don't trust the dude", but he said...

The white Leyline is basically an Ivory Mask with the Leyline wording.

Emphasis added. That can mean so many things and overreacting right now is pretty stupid.

It's quite possible that it simply gives you trollshroud instead of regular shroud, so it can play nice with targeted card drawing, lifegain, etc.

[Gheizen64]

By the looks of it, yes. We did get a "fixed" Maze of Ith and Survival of the Fittest with legs.

"Fixed" maze of ith is terrible, Kor Haven has a better ability (it doesn't trigger CipT triggers of your opponent's creature and can be used on your creature) and cost 1W instead of 4. This at 3 would have been already unplayable in legacy considering haven saw no play, at 4 it will see play probably only in standard. Seriously, the snowed land that deal 4 damage is probably better.

[MMogg]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/M11/8ik3ta850j_EN.jpg

This looks interesting as a singleton Trinket Mage target.

[Pastorofmuppets]

The white Leyline has potential to be awesome, until now white was pathetically bad against combo, and while this card alone doesn't make you win the game, it gives you enough time to play more effective cards that previously were too slow to matter in those matchups.

Does the print of Reverberate mean that wizards is willingful to "almost reprint" cards in the reserved list if required?

I hope so. I just sold a bunch of my staples to help pay for learny-books.
http://img707.imageshack.us/g/img0216br.jpg/
Look what Salvation found.

[lordofthepit]

A Leyline that acts like Ivory Mask?

I was pretty pissed when they reprinted Void, but this doesn't help matters.

So it's been spoiled to give Troll Shroud, so it's pretty much better than Ivory Mask in every way.

It won't break the format or anything, but I'll throw away my Ivory Masks and replace them with these Leylines as soon as they come out.

[(nameless one)]

So it's been spoiled to give Troll Shroud, so it's pretty much better than Ivory Mask in every way.

It won't break the format or anything, but I'll throw away my Ivory Masks and replace them with these Leylines as soon as they come out.

I am with you on this.

While we're at it, lets have a petition to get Ivory Mask banned. Maybe its price will spike up to $40 when it speculated to be reintroduced to Legacy.

[Infinitium]

Temple Bell - 3
Artifact
Tap: Both players draw a card.


Fixed Howling Mine? Again, this is another pretty freaking interesting card in stax shells because you get to utilize 2 draws before the opponent, and you already have a shitload of soft card advantage and tempo advantage what with the land destruction and Tangle Wire and whatnot.

[dahcmai]

The Leyline is definitely worth playing. One of White's largest problems was having great little hate bears galore, but it plain had to sit over there and look sad while people went off first or second turn. Canonist, True Believer, and pals were only good if you could dump them before the combo player just went nuts on you.

This buys a turn or more while they dig up a bounce spell. It might be all you needed to get the hate going. Glowrider is a gigantic pain in the butt if he gets out there and this leyline buys enough time to start up things like that. I love this Leyline just for that alone. Troll Shroud is a nice bonus.

I know I am seriously considering moving on and jumping off the combo ship. All this new hatred is getting silly.

[Aleksandr]

I know I am seriously considering moving on and jumping off the combo ship. All this new hatred is getting silly.

This.

In fact I am thinking of jumping of the whole ship. It happens to me sometimes, but now the frequency is shorter and shorter with every set spoiled.

[cseraph]

I would certainly not be sorry if more people played interactive magic in Legacy. Nor would WoTC.

[MMogg]

Nowhere else to complain so I'm doing it here. What is with some of this horrible art. WTF is that on Voltaic Key, because it certainly doesn't look like a key. Ya know, I was thinking they wanted core sets to have true fantasy flava, and that is the opposite.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/M11/peze71e7js_EN.jpg

I wish Triskelion had the old pimpbot art.

[/complaining]

[Captain_Morgan]

I used to play mask a lot versus combo years ago when it first came out, and frankly with the faster version I'd strongly consider using it. Using it with some large threats and back up hate does make the game more difficult for certain deck types and the card is flexible enough that it's not a dead slot against a variety of decks. It's use is going to be very meta dependent coupled with what decks out there use white and how they stack up.

I'm definitely going to play test it.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

WTF is that on Voltaic Key, because it certainly doesn't look like a key.

it might not be your concept of a key, but theres a lot of definitions to what a key is. One of them is "something that permits access", and the item in that picture seems to be magically granting access to some device, ergo looking perfectly like a key to me.

[MMogg]

it might not be your concept of a key, but theres a lot of definitions to what a key is. One of them is "something that permits access", and the item in that picture seems to be magically granting access to some device, ergo looking perfectly like a key to me.

"I stand corrected," said the man in the orthopedic shoes.

So how about this one:

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/VoltaicKey.jpg

Pretty sweet, huh. By my definition of key it fits the flavour perfectly. :tongue:

[DownSyndromeKarl]

"I stand corrected," said the man in the orthopedic shoes.

So how about this one:

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/VoltaicKey.jpg

Pretty sweet, huh. By my definition of key it fits the flavour perfectly. :tongue:

haha, that's bitchin. I'd totally proxy that for Vintage

[DrJones]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/M11/y1n3sjjcb7_ES.jpg

HOLY GOD! Spanish disentomb has a bad translation, and it says that you return the creature to the battlefield. Better than reanimate. :lol:

[majikal]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/M11/y1n3sjjcb7_ES.jpg

HOLY GOD! Spanish disentomb has a bad translation, and it says that you return the creature to the battlefield. Better than reanimate. :lol:

LMAO nice find!

[Smmenen]

Is this yet another set with nothing for Legacy?

[DrJones]

Is this yet another set with nothing for Legacy?I think that the following cards have legacy potential (excluding reprints):

Ajani's Pridemate
Knight Exemplar
Leyline of Sanctity
Serra Ascendant
Squadron Hawk
Leyline of Anticipation
Preordain
Stormtide Leviathan
Bloodthrone Vampire
Demon of Death's Gate
Liliana's Caress
Phylactery Lich
Reassembling Skeleton
Viscera Seer
Chandra's Spitfire
Leyline of Punishment
Manic Vandal
Autumn's Veil
Fauna Shaman
Garruk's Packleader
Leyline of Vitality
Brittle Effigy
Crystal Ball
Steel Overseer and
Temple bell.

Not all of them will make the cut, and some sleepers only need wizards to print more support in later expansions to make them good.

[morgan_coke]

I'd go with a much smaller list:

Reassembling Skeleton (maybe, depends if theres a deck that wants this effect, but its ability is definitely "on power level")
Squadron Hawk (Death and Taxes wants to pair this up with Stoneforge Mystic to basically invalidate/overload point removal)
Crystal Ball (possibly the card that puts Stax over the top? Or possibly just another not quite this time)
Leyline of Sanctity (will see a lot of sideboard action)
Autumn's Veil (more sideboard stuff)
Preordain (Ponder 5-8, which means BS 9-12, which means use in a fairly limited number of decks)
Fauna Shaman (makes Elf decks marginally better)

And I think that's about it. However, from a core set, thats freaking amazing. Good job wizards.

[menace13]

Is this yet another set with nothing for Legacy?

Yes, Yes it is another set with nothing for Legacy. But, it is hella good for limited stand alone play.

[dahcmai]

Leyline of Sanctity (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Leyline%20of%20Sanctity)
Preordain (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Preordain)
Reassembling Skeleton (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Reassembling%20Skeleton)
Autumn's Veil (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Autumn%27s%20Veil)
Leyline of Vitality (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Leyline%20of%20Vitality)
Crystal Ball (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Crystal%20Ball)
Temple bell (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Temple%20bell)


Gotta go with that much adding Time Reversal and Redirect. Time Reversal is flat better than Diminishing Returns in some cases. It's a finesse card.

Redirect might be finally decent enough of an ability on a card with a casting cost that makes it playable. I plan to test it out though. I liked Divert well enough, but it lost it's appeal after a few turns, this one's good for longer. Might be worth it.

I'm surprised you put Leyline of Vitality on that list, you know the trick with it? I figured that was fairly innocuous so far.

[DrJones]

I'm surprised you put Leyline of Vitality on that list, you know the trick with it? I figured that was fairly innocuous so far.I figured it was good in Zoo against Zoo.

[Aleksandr]

"I stand corrected," said the man in the orthopedic shoes.

So how about this one:

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss48/MMMoggg/VoltaicKey.jpg

Pretty sweet, huh. By my definition of key it fits the flavour perfectly. :tongue:

MMogg, I love you more and more.

[MMogg]

MMogg, I love you more and more.

Aww... sigged!

[DalkonCledwin]

Voltaic Key's art probably has roots in early Magic the Gathering Lore. What the art probably is is a key comprised of various smaller power stones, which grants access to some Thran (or other powerstone driven civilization) device. At least that is my interpretation. I mean the original did come from the Urza's Saga set, so it stands to reason that it has something to do with the Thran since that was the civilization that all 3 of the main characters of that entire block (Mishra, Urza, and Yawgmoth) were obsessed with in one way or another. Even though I don't know whether Mishra actually made an appearance in the actual storyline of the Urza's block, but he was a fundamental character in shaping the background of the block.

Keeping in mind that the M11 art is also the art that appears on the version from the Phyrexia vs. the Coalition version of the card, making it even more likely that the art represents a key made from Power Stones.

[Justin]

I'd go with a much smaller list:

Reassembling Skeleton (maybe, depends if theres a deck that wants this effect, but its ability is definitely "on power level")
Squadron Hawk (Death and Taxes wants to pair this up with Stoneforge Mystic to basically invalidate/overload point removal)
Crystal Ball (possibly the card that puts Stax over the top? Or possibly just another not quite this time)
Leyline of Sanctity (will see a lot of sideboard action)
Autumn's Veil (more sideboard stuff)
Preordain (Ponder 5-8, which means BS 9-12, which means use in a fairly limited number of decks)
Fauna Shaman (makes Elf decks marginally better)

And I think that's about it. However, from a core set, thats freaking amazing. Good job wizards.

Skeleton, I just don't see. I'd rather have Bloodghast.

I also don't see Squadron Hawk. I get that drawing one is like drawing four if it enters the battlefield, but it still costs eight mana to play all of them. Why not just play Spectral Procession and get three 1/1 flyers for three mana? Procession (although it was excellent in Standard) never made the cut in Legacy, so I don't see the attraction with Squadron Hawk.

Crystal Ball seems more like just another "not quite this time."

I agree that Leyline of Sanctity will see sideboard play, but I'm not sure about Autumn's Veil. There are better option out there.

Preordian doesn't seem great in the current Legacy. I don't see many decks that are running more than eight cantrips, and it doesn't measure up to Brainstorm and Ponder. Back in the day, Threshold lists would run up to 12 cantrips to help ramp up their Nimble Mongoose and Warebear. Those cards have fallen out of favor.

I don't think that Fauna Shaman makes elves better. I'm not sure what I would replace it with. It can't fetch a creature the turn it comes into play and it can only grab one creature at a time.

[morgan_coke]

I think Shaman helps with games that go long, when you can trade in a Llanowar for a Joraga, or find a Viridian Shaman to hit a Chalice@1 or something. I understand the unfavorable comparison with Pact in that situation, but you can use Shaman on a turn when you're not ready to go off after playing your hate, but want to next turn, and its also a dude who's pumped by archdruid et. al. I don't think it's MUCH of an improvement to the deck, but I do think its a very minor one. However, there's also at least a reasonable probability that its not, so... meh.

Squadron Hawk > Procession because if you're just sticking equipment on something, you'd rather keep backups in your hand than put them all on the table and then wear down their removal by using equipment to make a bad card into an evasive threat every turn.

[xTrainx]

Squadron Hawk is better than Procession because of Brainstorm, and because it thins your deck, and because of equipment(like mentioned above). In terms of Brainstorm, adding it to the Brainstorm/Fetchland synergy allows you to essentially, use Hawk/Brainstorm as an Ancestral Recall.

You play Hawk, grabbing two Hawks, Brainstorm them away, and then crack your fetchland, shuffling them away. You just got 3 new cards and a 1/1 flyer for 3 mana. Sounds pretty good to me.

Honestly, in my opinion, Squadron Hawk should only be played as a 3-of, due to hand size issues as well as the Brainstorm thing; oftentimes you will only want to grab two Hawks. Of course, it might go to four Hawks because in lategame situations you might want the extra flyer, but...we'll see.

All I'm saying is: I hope I rip like 6 of them for my sealed prerelease tomorrow ;).

[Justin]

I suppose that makes sense about the Hawk. Extra cards is always nice with brainstorm. I suppose that with Stoneforge Mystic and fetchable equipment, it could also work in D&T. As for the Shaman, it still seems bad to me. However, I have to admit that I have not yet tested it in my survival elves deck. It might end up being better than I think.

Overall, I'll still say that M11 has very little to offer in terms of quality cards for top-tier decks (at least for the new cards).

[DalkonCledwin]

Squadron Hawk also eats Cabal Therapy like no ones business. I am not liking the hawk in any build I can think of for Death and Taxes. For one thing you would have to decide on something to take out of the deck that is comparable, and the only slot that is even close to being comparable is that of Serra Avenger. And in all honesty Serra Avenger is so amazingly superior to the Squadron Hawk that it isn't even up for a debate. There really is no place for the hawk in the deck that I can see.

On the other hand there are people debating the inclusion of Sword of Vengeance in Death and Taxes. Personally I am not thrilled with the card, but I suppose it COULD work.

[Hanni]

Squadron Hawk also eats Cabal Therapy like no ones business. I am not liking the hawk in any build I can think of for Death and Taxes. For one thing you would have to decide on something to take out of the deck that is comparable, and the only slot that is even close to being comparable is that of Serra Avenger. And in all honesty Serra Avenger is so amazingly superior to the Squadron Hawk that it isn't even up for a debate. There really is no place for the hawk in the deck that I can see.

On the other hand there are people debating the inclusion of Sword of Vengeance in Death and Taxes. Personally I am not thrilled with the card, but I suppose it COULD work.

Squadron Hawk might eat Cabal Therapy like no ones business, it also enables Cabal Therapy like no ones business.

Squadron Hawk sounds more fit in UW Tempo than in Death and Taxes. I think it would be interesting to see a UW Tempo build that cuts Fathom Seers and runs Squadron Hawk and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

[DalkonCledwin]

Squadron Hawk sounds more fit in UW Tempo than in Death and Taxes. I think it would be interesting to see a UW Tempo build that cuts Fathom Seers and runs Squadron Hawk and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

I have to admit, outside of a Dredge deck... this is probably one of the best cabal therapy enabling engines that Wizards has come up with in ages. So that is true. However that said it does die to the very thing it enables, but in truth you have a very slim chance to come up against an opposing cabal therapy the very instant that you cast a squadron hawks. That said, I still think the hawks is significantly sub par to various other options available in white.

I mean the hawk is basically the white version (without the trigger cost) of the Elf that searches for its compatriots when it is played or whatever it is. And that if I am not mistaken puts them directly onto the field. Yet that see's next to no play at all and is I think a 2/2. So really how much more play is a card that puts them into your hand when you cast the card creates 1/1's (even though they are flying 1/1's) and is a great deal more vulnerable to hate cards going to see?

[jrsthethird]

I think that the following cards have legacy potential (excluding reprints):

Bloodthrone Vampire


This is a reprint. Hasn't done anything despite being legal for 3 months.

[DalkonCledwin]

it is basically a strictly worse nantuko husk or vampire aristocrat is it not? And how much play do either of those see in the format? They don't even get played in the Gate, a deck which could potentially abuse the sac outlet....

[majikal]

it is basically a strictly worse nantuko husk or vampire aristocrat is it not? And how much play do either of those see in the format? They don't even get played in the Gate, a deck which could potentially abuse the sac outlet....
How is it strictly worse? It costs less to play.

[rleader]

^ Yeah, the extra 1/1 is mostly irrelevant to what you want to use it for. Because often you're attacking for 12/12 with it, anyway.

I've won a lot of ext casual games with Husk + Nether Traitor + Golgari Germination. That plus Gravepact and a shambling shell in the graveyard is a pretty nice lock against other midrange decks.

[RexFTW]

I thought of making a long sarcastic post listing all of the worst cards in the set and saying why they would be good in legacy... but i decided it wouldn't be worth it.

If you think any cards in this set besides Leyline of the Void and Leyline of Sanctity will see any play you are seriously kidding yourself.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

so, Bloodthrone Vampire + Mitotic Slime = really good in limited