[Deck] R/B Tribal Goblin

[Armfelt]

Hi, I am quite new to the world of magic and are aiming to create a fun deck that is able to compete against my friends which are magic veterans. The deck will be in the Legacy 1.5 format and will rather not contain sideboards.

This is the deck that I have built during the past month, and I would be grateful for your opinions! :)

Deck: Untitled Deck (http://deckstats.net/deck-158871-f0a24f004edae8b1b24a752dac4a1c91-en.html)

//Lands
9x Mountain (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Mountain)
2x Dragonskull Summit (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dragonskull+Summit)
4x Auntie's Hovel (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Auntie%27s+Hovel)
4x Blood Crypt (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Blood+Crypt)
3x Wasteland (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wasteland)

//Creatures
4x Goblin Warchief (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Warchief)
2x Siege-Gang Commander (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Siege-Gang+Commander)
4x Goblin Lackey (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Lackey)
4x Goblin Piledriver (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Piledriver)
4x Goblin Matron (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Matron)
4x Goblin Ringleader (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Ringleader)
1x Wort, Boggart Auntie (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wort%2C+Boggart+Auntie)
4x Warren Instigator (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Warren+Instigator)
4x Goblin Tunneler (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Tunneler)
3x Goblin Settler (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Settler)

//Spells
4x Warren Weirding (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Warren+Weirding)

http://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Display Deck Statistics (http://deckstats.net/deck-158871-f0a24f004edae8b1b24a752dac4a1c91-en.html)


The mechanics of my deck today:
As it is now, it needs combination to work. I aim to be able to play goblins without the need of paying for them. There fore I got Goblin Lackeys and Warren Instigator, Goblin Tunneler is used to make their attacks through the opponents defense.

Warchief will speed up my play and the ringleaders and matrons will keep supplying my lackeys and instigators.

Warren Weirding, Goblin settler and Wasteland shall cripple the opponent.

Piledrivers and siege-gang commanders will be the sledge.

Wort, Boggart Auntie is supposed to "recycle" goblin cards.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you think that I have good enough arguments, or what would you do or change? :)

Ps. I tried to use Aether Vial in my deck, but found it to be in the way in this build. Ds.

[Ozymandias]

I don't know how you figured that Aether Vial gets in the way. It is literally the best card in the deck--and that includes the other uncuttables like Lackey, Ringleader, Matron, and Warchief.

I would not play a black splash with no Badlands or fetches. Just replace them with mountains and 1 wasteland, and wort and weirding with Gempalms and Stingscourgers.

Goblin Settler is so much worse than what you could be doing with the equivalent mana, and Goblin Tunneler suffers from the same problem.

Basically, this deck is worse in every way than current builds of Goblins.

[Armfelt]

Okay thanks for your prompt reply, so if we put back 4 Aether Vials in to the deck and also make it mono red. + About 20 mana.
Then we get about 6 empty slots, what could be added?

//Lands
20x Lands

//Creatures
4x Goblin Warchief (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Warchief)
2x Siege-Gang Commander (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Siege-Gang+Commander)
4x Goblin Lackey (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Lackey)
4x Goblin Piledriver (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Piledriver)
4x Goblin Matron (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Matron)
4x Goblin Ringleader (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Ringleader)
4x Gempalm Incinerator (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gempalm+Incinerator)
4x Stingscourger (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Stingscourger)

//Spells
4x AEther Vial (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=AEther+Vial)

[perm]

why not use the black goblin harbinger? isn't it strictly better than matron if you are running black

[Djenin]

For a mono-red build I would add the third Siege-Gang Commander, 4 Goblin Chieftains, one more land, and change some of the mountains to Rishadan Ports.


EDIT: Boggart Harbinger is a lot worse than Matron actually, seeing that it does not provide you with the tutored card in hand, but on top of your library instead.


You also might want to take a look at this thread, as it's the main place where Goblins is discussed.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5557-%5BDTW%5D-Vial-Goblins

[(nameless one)]

Actually, Goblin Settlers aren't that bad. They actually go along with the Mana-denial sidetheme of Goblins but then again, there are so much better Goblins for that spot.

[jrsthethird]

Seems like he's completely unfamiliar with the Legacy metagame and just stumbled upon the site. Aether Vial is your friend, and you can do so many tricks with it.

You can pick up Scalding Tarns or Arid Mesas for cheap and they can help you get your Blood Crypts. Once you have the money (or if you don't care about being 'competitive', skip it), grab at least 1 Badlands and drop the Crypts entirely. You can keep the full set of Hovels.

Add the 4th Wasteland, it's really good. Also, you might be able to work 1-2 Rishadan Ports into the deck, which helps with the mana-denial strategy.

If you're running Goblin Tunneler with Warren Instigator, maybe a Teetering Peaks? This doesn't sound like it would cut it in competitive Legacy but seems fun with friends.

Depending on your friends' decks, you might want to consider Stingscourger or Gempalm Incinerator as additional removal spots.

[Armfelt]

The mono-red build that you mentioned, seems to be quite solid:

Deck: Untitled Deck (http://deckstats.net/deck-159085-5837d689e9c7a45d2490ceb62847ce09-en.html)

//Lands
18x Mountain (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Mountain)
3x Rishadan Port (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Rishadan+Port)

//Creatures
4x Goblin Warchief (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Warchief)
3x Siege-Gang Commander (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Siege-Gang+Commander)
4x Goblin Lackey (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Lackey)
4x Goblin Piledriver (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Piledriver)
4x Goblin Matron (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Matron)
4x Goblin Ringleader (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Ringleader)
4x Gempalm Incinerator (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gempalm+Incinerator)
4x Stingscourger (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Stingscourger)
4x Goblin Chieftain (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Chieftain)

//Spells
4x AEther Vial (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=AEther+Vial)

http://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Display Deck Statistics (http://deckstats.net/deck-159085-5837d689e9c7a45d2490ceb62847ce09-en.html)

I have those cards except 3 stingscourger and 4 Chieftains, but since I got the black/red land cards it would be fun to build a R/B goblin deck, perhaps I am wrong, but I kinda like the Warren Weirdings. How would you build a Red/Black goblin deck? I would ofcourse be really happy for examples/tips of all types of goblin decks ofc! :)

Edit: Yes, I am unfortunately a newbie when it comes to the meta-game. But I am lucky that I got the tip from a native forum that this was a great Legacy-site. :)

[Nelis]

21 lands is a bit low. Most Goblin builds run 23 sometimes 22. For starters I would take out a Siege-Gang (although some people prefer 3) and a stingscourger and add another mountain and Rishadan Port. If you have Wastelands run them too. (and take out mountains)

There's a whole thread for Goblins: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5557-%5BDTW%5D-Vial-Goblins

It's a bit of a read but its very helpful. It's better to start from the last page. The first page is somewhat out of date.

[Armfelt]

Ye, Nelis you might be right, I don't want to lose a turn because of no mana. And I read the thread several of you linked, and it is intresting.

In that thread I found this build somehow similar to my first build and contain 90% of the cards that I got IRL. What do you think of this build?

Deck: Untitled Deck (http://deckstats.net/deck-159431-468fc634c6b3a67ea77182c1cff6107e-en.html)

//Lands
5x Mountain (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Mountain)
4x Auntie's Hovel (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Auntie%27s+Hovel)
4x Blood Crypt (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Blood+Crypt)
4x Wasteland (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wasteland)
3x Rishadan Port (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Rishadan+Port)
2x Badlands (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Badlands)

//Creatures
4x Goblin Warchief (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Warchief)
2x Siege-Gang Commander (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Siege-Gang+Commander)
4x Goblin Lackey (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Lackey)
4x Goblin Piledriver (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Piledriver)
4x Goblin Matron (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Matron)
4x Goblin Ringleader (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Ringleader)
1x Gempalm Incinerator (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gempalm+Incinerator)
1x Stingscourger (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Stingscourger)
2x Warren Instigator (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Warren+Instigator)
2x Goblin Chieftain (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Chieftain)

//Spells
3x Warren Weirding (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Warren+Weirding)
3x Lightning Bolt (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Lightning+Bolt)
4x AEther Vial (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=AEther+Vial)

http://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Display Deck Statistics (http://deckstats.net/deck-159431-468fc634c6b3a67ea77182c1cff6107e-en.html)

I got 3 Lightning Bolt and they are fast and really price-effective. But I also got a handful of Goblin Grenades and Fodder Launch. Could they be used instead?

[dahcmai]

Something I'm surprised no one has asked is if you are planning on playing this in multiplayer or one on one with your friends? It makes a huge difference. This seems like a good start for one on one and I'm assuming that's what you are playing looking at the list, but if you are playing in multiplayer, you'll need a serious re-vamp.

[FoulQ]

I got 3 Lightning Bolt and they are fast and really price-effective. But I also got a handful of Goblin Grenades and Fodder Launch. Could they be used instead?

Nope, both those cards are unplayable.

[Vacrix]

I got 3 Lightning Bolt and they are fast and really price-effective. But I also got a handful of Goblin Grenades and Fodder Launch. Could they be used instead?
Stingscourer and Incinerator are often used instead of conventional removal like Bolt because they are Goblins. More Goblins makes Ringleader stronger.

You could always use deckcheck to find a successful build of R/b Gobos. The goblin thread, as everyone has already stated, is also an excellent resource.

[Armfelt]

Something I'm surprised no one has asked is if you are planning on playing this in multiplayer or one on one with your friends? It makes a huge difference. This seems like a good start for one on one and I'm assuming that's what you are playing looking at the list, but if you are playing in multiplayer, you'll need a serious re-vamp.

Yep, It will be mostly used in One-vs-Ones. :]


Stingscourer and Incinerator are often used instead of conventional removal like Bolt because they are Goblins. More Goblins makes Ringleader stronger.

You could always use deckcheck to find a successful build of R/b Gobos. The goblin thread, as everyone has already stated, is also an excellent resource.

Yeah, I figured out that Ringleaders wants a lot of goblins to be any good. It was just that I found this combo in the "Decks to Beat" thread that was linked, so I wanted to hear your opinion since I didn't see any reaction there.

And thanks for the tip about Deckcheck, it seems to be a good site, though the latest goblin decks seems to be from 2008. But hopefully too much haven't changed. :]

[Vacrix]

Yeah, I figured out that Ringleaders wants a lot of goblins to be any good. It was just that I found this combo in the "Decks to Beat" thread that was linked, so I wanted to hear your opinion since I didn't see any reaction there.

And thanks for the tip about Deckcheck, it seems to be a good site, though the latest goblin decks seems to be from 2008. But hopefully too much haven't changed. :]
I've been seeing fewer and fewer goblins these days, probably because Zoo completely thrashes it. Thats probably why you see fewer of them.

[Armfelt]

Ok, that sounds bad, hopefully they'll make new good goblins that can counter Zoo then.

I will play later today and since I have most of the cards (below), I'll try this deck that someone wrote in the DTB-thread. I'll return with info on how it went.



Well the big advantage of Wort is that it allows you to keep your Vial on 4, instead of having to boost it up to 5 for SGC. Wort definetly has its merits in long drawn out games as it basically allows you to replay a Ringleader each turn.


I think leylines are the best choice, it allows you to buy abit of time against reanimator which should be enough to set up Vial+Scourger or draw/tutor for a Weirding. More importantly it is also very good against Ichorid and Loam decks unlike fearie macabre.



Here is what I would play right now:
Artifacts:
4 Aether Vial

Creatures:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Instigator
1 Siege-gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie

Sorceries:
3 Warren Weirding

Lands:
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
6 Mountain

[daPaule]

I've been seeing fewer and fewer goblins these days, probably because Zoo completely thrashes it. Thats probably why you see fewer of them.

While this is true it's still a question of meta. Here for example zoo is down to 1-2 players at our weekly legacy tournament, ~30 players.

So you have the rare chance of losing to zoo + the obvious running into combo.

Anyhow i'm also running R/b goblins, most of the time it's just so much fun to play and the matchups aren't that bad. Still random jitte and stuff also owns goblins hard :(

[FoulQ]

Goblins is actually fairly well positioned right now.

You have a positive reanimator and merfolk matchup. You have a somewhat positive bant matchup, but this is very build depedent. Goblins is also good against many random tier 2 decks and underdeveloped metagames.

Zoo, Tendrils/Belcher, and Lands are the only real bad matchups. Everything else is winnable. There are some matchups that are iffy though, like aggro loam and survival.

Goblins is not the best deck to play in the format. But it is a fun deck, and a decent one, and people won't respect you for playing it. So it is often very humiliating when they lose, and this is always funny. I love it when the guy across the table rolls his eyes at t1 lackey, confident when he lays his t1 3/3 nacatl, and then you cast t2 stingscourger. Take that you cocky douchebag FUCK

And if single cards like Jitte are a problem, use your sideboard wisely. If Jitte is owning you HARD, the green splash has Tin Street Hooligan.

Even though there was good discussion in this thread, it probably should be locked.

[Armfelt]

Goblins is actually fairly well positioned right now.

Goblins is also good against many random tier 2 decks and underdeveloped metagames.

Goblins is not the best deck to play in the format. But it is a fun deck, and a decent one, and people won't respect you for playing it. So it is often very humiliating when they lose, and this is always funny.

This is mainly why I choosed goblin, they are fun and this far I have found them quite able. But it is as you say that all decks can be countered. + There would be no fun with a deck that is "almighty".



Even though there was good discussion in this thread, it probably should be locked.

Sorry if I misunderstand, but I don't get why it should be locked. I want this deck to be competitive and in my opinion we still bring constructive information. But if many of you wish, with the help of an Admin we could move this to the casual section.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I may get back to the deck-topic, I have tested the deck frequently both IRL and online and found that it is improving and much better than before, thanks to you.

As stated above goblin decks really can handle many random decks and decks that people have reckoned as fast decks is possible to win against. Same thing when meeting decks with fast large creatures is able to batter with Stingscourger or Warren Weirding.

Decks that can be abit hard to handle for me is blue control and decks that spam more creatures than i do, eg. sometimes elves. Especially when they get more powerful than mine. What could I do against those? Must I add eg. Perish or similar mass destruction spells and do you have any examples of what to pick?

This is the deck this far:

Deck: Untitled Deck (http://deckstats.net/deck-164237-dbb0a2d80c53551ee5db11228a6b8182-en.html)

//Lands (forgot that I use to change some lands for Rishadan Port that can be good, especially when I got enough mana, and the enemy don't).
5x Mountain (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Mountain)
4x Auntie's Hovel (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Auntie%27s+Hovel)
2x Blood Crypt (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Blood+Crypt)
4x Wasteland (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wasteland)
3x Sulfurous Springs (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sulfurous+Springs)
4x Badlands (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Badlands)

//Creatures
3x Goblin Warchief (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Warchief)
4x Goblin Lackey (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Lackey)
4x Goblin Piledriver (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Piledriver)
4x Goblin Matron (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Matron)
4x Goblin Ringleader (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Ringleader)
3x Gempalm Incinerator (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gempalm+Incinerator)
2x Siege-Gang Commander (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Siege-Gang+Commander)
2x Stingscourger (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Stingscourger)
2x Goblin Chieftain (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Chieftain)
2x Warren Instigator (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Warren+Instigator)
1x Wort, Boggart Auntie (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wort%2C+Boggart+Auntie)
1x Goblin Tinkerer (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Tinkerer) or use Lightning Crafter? Add another Stingscourger? Or pick/add another Goblin?

//Spells
3x Warren Weirding (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Warren+Weirding)
3x AEther Vial (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=AEther+Vial)

http://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Display Deck Statistics (http://deckstats.net/deck-164237-dbb0a2d80c53551ee5db11228a6b8182-en.html)

[Nidd]

If you want to build a competitive Goblin deck, post in the Goblin thread.
That thread is used for all discussions concerning the Goblin archetype as a whole, so this thread, while containing some good discussion, is not correctly placed here.

I'm sure a mod can move all that stuff from here to the Goblin thread, though, so nothing will be lost.

Also: Welcome to The Source.

[Armfelt]

Thank you for the welcome. :]

Ok, ye you are probably right. So if a moderator see this, please move this thread to the goblin thread. Sorry for placing it wrong in the first place.

Edit: It is solved now.