Wizards U/r

[Patrunkenphat7]

The only reason this deck is called 'Wizards' is because most of its creatures just happen to be wizards. I did not try to force a wizard theme, as I feel like many people attempt to do with subpar tribal decks. This deck is similar to Merfolk; the basic strategy is the same EXCEPT for these differences, many of them being quite major:

PROS
- Red removal! This includes the Basilisk Collar/Lavamancer Combo.
- More equipment. The deck greatly utilizes equipment, but it also relies on it heavily due too puny creatures...
- Brainstorm. This card is useful because of fetches and the manner in which the deck plays. It is definitely more instant-speed and tricky than Merfolk.
- Flying Creatures. The creatures are smaller, but 8 flying creatures carry a Jitte quite nicely.
- Trinket Mage Toolbox. This allows for maindeck GY hate, as well as the ability to tutor for a piece of the Lavamancer/Collar combo.
- Magus of the Moon. Wins games against some deck and is uncounterable with Vial.

CONS
- 2 colors. The manabase is obviously weaker against nonbasic hate compared with Merfolk.
- Smaller creatures... much smaller. The creatures in this deck need equipment to operate against many decks.

The cons are fewer, yet they are more prominent. Compared to Merfolk, this deck's matchups should be much better vs. Zoo and other creature-based decks. It should also crush Merfolk. The matchup against control is probably worse. The matchup against combo is about the same. The playtesting I have done so far has been proxied and casual, so matchups will be much more clear after I play this deck more often and with real cards.

Here is the list... Please give constructive comments; I am trying to make a deck that is tournament-viable in the proper meta.

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Cloud of Faeries
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Trinket Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Relic of Progenitus

4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Mutavault
1 Riptide Laboratory

SB
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
2 Vexing Shusher
3 Firespout
2 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Submerge

The shushers are for protecting equipment vs. blue-heavy decks. Even though Firespout hurts half your own guys, it destroys Goblins, Merfolk, Elves, ect, and I believe it should definitely be included. Submerge is good because you can bounce their creature and then lay down a Magus or counter it with a late-game Spellstutter. There are several cards I would like to include in the 75 (Stifle and Fire/Ice for example), but as of now there is not enough space, and they are a little too narrow. The SB is meant to combat very general strategies. I believe that 19 creatures (considering there are 4 Brainstorms) is probably the right number. I also think that 3 Jitte and 2 Sword of Fire and Ice is the minimum in order to make your creatures viable combat threats against many decks. This means that 1 in every 12 cards will be either a SoFI or Jitte.

If enough people are supportive and interested in this deck, I will post playtesting results from various matchups and sideboarding strategies.

[Cthuloo]

The first question that comes to my mind is: why are you not playing standstill? You play vial, mutavault, lavamancer and cloud of faeries, standstill looks potentially really strong.

[Rune]

Mishra's Factory will be better than Mutavault in this deck most of the time. With Cloud of Faeries in hand, Aether Vial in play and any number of factories in play, you can pull off some nice tricks. I would also suggest some kind of card advantage engine like Standstill or Ninja of the Deep Hours (although I think you have too few ways to get rid of blockers to make that guy effective)

[Mr. Forsberg]

This is an interesting deck concept. I am also working on something similar right now. Have you considered Patron Wizard in the deck? I think that he could be an interesting addition to the deck, providing you with a soft lock.

Also, I think that you might want at least one Meekstone in your sideboard. It has great synergy with almost all creatures in your deck, and is tutorable with Trinket Mage.

[jazzykat]

I have been:
1. working on something similar (see Captain America thread),
2. playing the Ugr "Faeries" list posted by Coma
3. playing a Tempo Thresh build that uses Lavamancer for Mongoose, Spellstutters for Fire/Ice and 19 land.

1. Worked out sort of OK, but was missing something.
2. Was better but missed some Faerie Synergy
3. Is a beating, and I'm trying to decide if that should become my next tournament deck.

So with all of that experience behind me I would like to offer my critique of your proposition:

1. I love the idea of WIZARDS. Enough good ones have been printed we may be able to do something. There are also some Faeries (but you knew that) in that list .
2. You need a serious answer to Tarmogoyf in the MD. I would also look for one for counterbalance which can be as simple as Trinket--> EE.
3. At the very least I would run Lightning bolts, they are almost never dead. Their applications are limitless.
4. I understand why you play all the equipment, I'm not sure if I totally agree with doing it.
5. Moon effects are less devestating now than ever because of Bant having all the right fetches + Hierarch, the decline of landstill, and the trend toward playing more basics. Obviously, he can crush someone caught unawares but I wouldn't count on that more than a few times per tournament.
6. You run 18 land and have 11 cards that cost 3 mana + manlands that want to be activated+ equipment to be put on+ Lavamancer Activation+ keeping mana open for spellstutter+Vault shennagins. Vial obviously gets you there, but without a vial I think times would be pretty tough.
7. If you run standstill then I think you need to run wasteland as well.
8. Daze + Vial is good but it normally is played in a deck with waste (and usually stifle) and/or with Hierarch consider that you have neither to maximize effect/miminimize disadvantage.

I will probably test something that splashed either green for goyf or white for StP or Black for Bob+Smother/Demise/TERMINATE
I would move the Magus to the board. I would be torn between either mutavault or factory.

If you are playing manlands+lavamang + vial +(bolt+waste+spell snare (you counter the 2 drop while not having to daze...)) Standstill is made for this deck. It would actually call up to see if it could get a spot. Seriously, good cards that play well with Standstill are VERY cool.

[Infinitium]

If you're dead set on a wizard theme and Trinket Mage, why not the Puresight Merrow/Paradise Mantle combo? 2 card 5 mana combo that gains an arbitrary amount of life by milling into and playing Judge of Currents. As icing on the cake Vedalken Aethermage indirectly searches out both pieces of it.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Thanks for all the input! I don't have a ton of time right now, but I'll try to highlight some of the main points.

1. Standstill. Do I take Brainstorm out for Standstill?? Standstill is obviously the best CA in Legacy, but my inclusion of Brainstorm was due to wanting to search for a 2nd or 3rd land drop (since I run 19 land, 14 colored land) or a Force/Daze for popular decks like Tendrils/Belcher/Reanimator. Against what decks does Standstill shine the most? I would definitely be willing to play Standstill; it's nice that I have a playset sitting in a binder unused.

2. Mutavault vs. Factory. I included Mutavaults to help with Spellstutter Sprite. I am not sure the combat trick of Vialed Cloud of Faeries + Factory would be worth it, but I could try it out. I would probably want to change from 4 Spellstutters and 2 Clouds to 3 and 3 if I made that change.

3. Patron Wizard. Yes, I love this guy! I'm just not sure where to put it. Replace the Vendilion Cliques?? The Cliques are really nice at instant-speed, they add to the Faerie count, they are the biggest beater at 3; they are all-around pretty sick-nasty. I really don't like how Patron Wizard is UUU... Vial helps this, but that is mighty hard to cast in a deck with 13 blue sources. It will take on-average til turn 13 or 14 to get a 3rd blue land. Granted, this is without Brainstorms and Standstills!

4. Meekstone. Yeah I think Meekstone is sick. If I were to put meekstone in this deck, I would change it around quite a bit so that Meekstone was a very central part of the strategy. Vendilion Clique is hurt by Meekstone, and so is anything that carries a SoFI. My fliers with a Jitte would still be sick-nasty.

5. LD. Wastelands and Stifles; I love these cards! But where in the world would I fit them?

One question - what do you guys think about Riptide Lab? I've had great success with it in Extended, but I have never tried to use it in Legacy. Excellent with Spellstutter, Vendilion Clique, and Trinket Mage, but it is only good in very long games.

How does this list look? The pesimistic part of me just feels like this could be a worse version of Merfolk and Faerie stompy...

4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Trinket Mage
2 Patron Wizard

4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Meekstone
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Relic of Progenitus

4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

[jbmulder]

Could you possibly call the deck Red Fish, Blue Fish?

Like, "one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish"?

This is the only suggestion I'm qualified to give. And even that's questionable.

[ktkenshinx]

I must second Infinitum's advice. The Puresight combo is devastating, and if you test it out, you will probably agree. Puresight on his own is a good card, especially in conjunction with Patron Wizard (a card that is strangely absent from this deck). Trinket Mage is already here, and his ability to snag a Mantle makes the deck all the more consistent. Your countermagic suite keeps the Puresight alive, especially if you add in Patron alongside stuff like Spellstutter. Once Puresight gets live and active with the Mantle, you are pretty much in business. Infinite Life? Consult Judge of Currents. Infinite damage? Consult Wake Thrasher. Having versatility in a control deck is strong, and Puresight gives you that versatility.

That said, the deck that runs Puresight/Mantle/Judge/Patron Wizard might very well be a different deck than the one you are making here. I personally think that a UW Wizard deck would be better than a UR one. In addition to having access to both Judge of Currents and Stonybrook Schoolmaster, you also have Swords and Path. Swords especially is a better removal spell than those red options you present here. You do lose Magus of the Moon, but the lockdown capabilities of an active Patron Wizard (especially one with Aether Vial backup) is not to be underestimated.

Given that your deck is U/r (emphasis on the lower case nature of that r), these changes would be viable. It's a different deck, but I think an overall stronger deck with more control options. Because this is supposed to be a control deck, UW might be the optimal route.

-ktkenshinx-

[Patrunkenphat7]

Presight Merrow / Judge of Currents Combo seems to work better in a U/w Merfolk deck. It seem good, but it's not exactly what I was going for.

[Vacrix]

Is there a reason you are sticking primarily to wizard tribal? Without something like Patron Wizards I can't see a reason why you should limit your creatures primarily to wizards. Riptide Laboratory isn't strong enough to justify running something bad like Cloud of Faeries. I think you ought to splash white for Swords, and eliminate redundant equipment by running a few Stoneforge Mystics.

[Jonathan Alexander]

Is there a reason you are sticking primarily to wizard tribal? Without something like Patron Wizards I can't see a reason why you should limit your creatures primarily to wizards. Riptide Laboratory isn't strong enough to justify running something bad like Cloud of Faeries. I think you ought to splash white for Swords, and eliminate redundant equipment by running a few Stoneforge Mystics.

You are right with everything you said, but it seems a bit like you didn't read the OP well. He said that this deck is not trying to be wizards, it's just that the creatures happen to be wizards.
I'm testing something quite similar right now and did a lot of testing with U/R and U/W Faerie-builds.
Riptide Lab was never worth being played, it's just sooo slow. If you want, go test it, but it won't work.
Cloud Of Faeries is nice for Spellstutter Sprite, but isn't really worth it. Cloud on itself is just a tiny 1/1 and does literally nothing. If it gets hit by Snell Snare against Canadian for example, you end up being pretty screwed.
The U/R list lacked some serious removal, which is why I stopped testing it.
The U/W list was a lot better. White has everything you want, especially Swords To Plowshares, which is really important for this deck, because without Equipment, you can't race anything. The only thing that annoyed me about the U/W list was Stoneforge being a bit slow against most aggro. So I first decided to cut it, leaving the deck being even slower. That led to some weird testings. I tried Jötun Grunt, Mother Of Runes and a lot of Ninjas, which worked ok. The deck worked out really well against everything except for fast Aggro. Most of the time I was too slow for Ichorid, even postboard. Merfolk was okay, but definitely worse than before, with Stoneforge, and much worse than with Lavamancer. Random Aggro like Berserk Stompy and Mono Color Aggro in general was a nightmare, though Faerie/Dragon Stompy worked out quite well.
I decided to try out something different and ended up playing U/W/R. I play loads of counters mainboard, a lot of cantrips, all of the creatures are good utility, providing some nice cardadvantage. And of course, Wasteland + Stifle does a GREAT job in this deck.
This is the list I'm currently playing:

//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland

//Creatures
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Ponder
4 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
1 Sword Of Fire And Ice
4 Swords To Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Aura Of Silence
SB: 2 Jotun Grunt
SB: 4 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 Relic Of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Wing Shards

I'm not sure about the sideboard at all, but there will be at least four pieces of gravehate and four Mindbreak Traps. Wing Shards seem reasonable, too. I'm going to do some more testing later on, so maybe that will help.
By the way, I think about cutting a Jitte for a Basilisk Collar, probably just trying that one out. And I think about replacing Spell Pierce with Spiketail Hatchling, which seems really promising in this deck. The Pierces would then replace the Mindbreak Traps in the board.

[Patrunkenphat7]

@ Jona: I like the idea behind your deck, except I feel like the creatures are a little underwhelming. I was having trouble with how weak the creatures were in my deck, but I had a bunch of them, including Mutavaults. Do you think you could somehow squeeze some more offensive power into your deck? Jotun Grunt could be a nice addition.

[Jonathan Alexander]

Well, like I said, I've played with Grunt before and sometimes he's just insane. But he doesn't work well with Lavamancer. We could play Firespout then, but Spout isn't that nice with Stoneforge, except your always searching Sword first, which is what I'm doing most of the time anyway. But if we just replace Lavamancer with Firespout, what do we cut for Grunt? It seems like there really isn't much room in this deck. Nevertheless, I like Grunt in the board.
Sword is a nice finisher on its own, I'm really happy with it so far. What seemed a bit more like a problem to me today was Spell Pierce not hitting everything I want it to hit and Spellstutter not growing at all. I'm definitely trying Spiketail over Spell Pierce. This would make Equipment even better then. I ended up having no creatures but Stoneforge quite often today, and trust me, that sucked. Putting down a Sword against Dragon Stompy but not having a creature to carry it is fail. Another thing regarding Stoneforge is that I'm most probably not going to play Basilisk Collar. I've never been in a situation where I would have used Stoneforge to search it, Jitte and Sword always are superior.
The sideboard is nice, but I'm not sure about Aura Of Silence. I feel like I should have some Artifact/Enchantment removal. Another thing I dislike is that I have to board out Stifle so often. But turn one Stifle is one of the strongest plays in Legacy and Wasteland alone seems a bit weak. Would be a completely different deck then, and I feel like tempo decks are the strongest way to go except you're playing combo, Reanimate of Dredge. And to be honest, I don't feel like making major changes to this deck anymore now. But do you have anymore boarding ideas? I tried out a lot things but nothing really worked out.

[Justin]

A tribal deck is only worth playing if you have cards that can exploit the tribal theme. Patron Wizard is the MVP of this deck and the main reason to play it. I've had this as a fun UR deck for a while. Spellstutter is really excellent here as well and plays nice with Mutavault and Taurean Mauler. The weakeness of the wizards tribe is that they lack effecicient finishers. This is where Taurean Mauler comes in. It can grow quite large and put the opponent on a short clock. The deck has plenty of ways to protect it, with countermagic, Patrons, Spellstutters, etc.

// Lands
4 Volcanic Island
3 Island
4 Riptide Laboratory
3 Flooded Strand
3 Mutavault
3 Scalding Tarn

// Creatures
2 Sower of Temptation
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Patron Wizard
4 Taurean Mauler
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Grim Lavamancer
1 Azami, Lady of Scrolls

// Spells
4 Fire/Ice
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 AEther Vial
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 [Spell Pierce
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast

[Jonathan Alexander]

Went 2-4 in Iserlohn, Germany yesterday, basically played the list from my post above, but moved Spell Pierce to the board, replacing Mindbreak Trap and played four Spiketail Hatchling mainboard, which was great. Lavamancer was bad all day, he literally did nothing at all, I'm going to cut them, but I'm not sure how to replace him. I want to have something that's good both, in offense and defense, but there aren't many options. Maybe Jötun Grunt mainboard or something, I don't know. Serra Avenger could be cool because of Vigilance and being the best Jitte carrier in the game. Another thing that bothered me is drawing too many lands. I remember topdecking like four Lands when the board was empty. My opponent then went Goyf, Goyf, Goyf. Basically it went like this the whole day.

Just a brief overview of the tournament:

First round against Canadian. It didn't like that too much in testing, but always felt like it was quite okay. 0-2
Game one I'm on the play and lead with Tundra, Ponder go. I think he put me on Combo, just going Wasteland, go. I go Island go, he play Ponder and fetches I think. I fail to find another Land for five turns at least, force Mongoose and he forces back or something. Then I find Wasteland and waste his only red, trying to slow him down at least a bit. But it just wasn't enough, Mongoose finished me as I was white-screwed and had at least two Stoneforges in hand. Nothing spectacular.
I don't remember that much of game two, except keeping a quite good hand and loosing to Mongoose again. I saw all my four Stifle that game, but he only cracked one Fetchie.
0-1

Second round against Bant Survival. 0-2
I'm on the draw and he goes Windswept Heath -> Tundra. I'm not doing that much this game. Somewhere I play Ponder and forget to draw the Force Of Will I put on top, facing Tarmogoyf next turn. When I draw, I realize how dumb I was. I slow him down by dropping all of my Lavamancers, but because of summoning sickness and me being on five life or something they just chumpblock. Eventually I ran out of Lavamancer and died. Didn't see a single Sword this game while he got at least two.
I'm on the draw again and I'm able to keep him off of blue and green mana the first few turns, but he forces my Stoneforge Mystic and still can play around Daze, leaving me without creatures again. He then play Survival, I play Aura Of Silence. He drops Survival Again, I drop Aura again. He's still kinda screwed and isn't able to activate Survival once. This is where the board is empty and drops three Goyfs in a row, while I hold a hand of four Lands.
0-2

Third round I play against Enchantress which I playtested more than enough. 2-0
I go first, dropping Island. He goes Windswept Heath, fetch, but I have Stifle. I drop a land, he drops Forest, Wild Growth, which I counter with Spellstutter, which proved to be very good. I dazed his third turn Argothian Enchantress. The game went quite quick. I have a lot of counters and basically counter everything important he plays. Another Sprite hit another Enchantress and I slowed him down very nice. I fail to find equipment, but this was the only game at all, where Lavamancer actually did something.
Game two goes much faster than game one. He does nothing turn one and I go Tundra, go. He plays Vexing Shusher, and I regret boarding out Lavamancer + Swords To Plowshares, but I had Sword Of Fire And Ice in hand, so that was alright. Turn three I put down Aura Of Silence and Spiketail + Sword kills his Vexing Shusher. I had six counters in hand and won.
1-2

Round four I played against Dredge. There's no deck I tested as much against as Dredge. 2-0
Game one he goes DDD and I don't do much except dropping like three Spiketails. I get Jitte online and it's very close (I went to one life three turns in a row) but i manage to win. Combat math ftw.
I board out three Lavamancer, four Stifle and a Mountain. I bring in four Spell Pierce and my Gravehate except Grunt (he isn't gravehate, you know).
Game two was easy. I only find Crypt of my sideboard cards but have loads of counters and get Stoneforge on turn two, giving me Sword Of Fire And Ice, which wins the game fast.
2-2

Round five I play against Dragon Stompy. 0-2
I'm on the play and don't know what he's playing. I go Island, Ponder. Ponder sees Force, Daze and something else. I decide to take Daze, which I regret as soon as he drops Mountain + Chrome Mox. He goes Chalice @ 1 and I try to Daze, but of course he has the Spirit Guide. He must have put me on Combo, cause he didn't wait for me to ok anything at all. Whatever, I lose to Chalice with two Brainstorm, Swords To Plowshares and Ponder in hand. He drops Arc Slogger Turn three, ending the game on turn six.
Again, I board out Lavamancer, Stifle + Mountain. But this time I board in Grunt, Aura and Sell Pierce. He mulls once and there isn't much going on turn one and two, just Ponder, Brainstorm, Fetch, Ponder again from me. Turn three I drop Aura, he drops a morph creature. I have Grunt in hand and think about forcing, but my only other blue card is Spellstutter Sprite, which I don't want to lose. In my Turn I drop a land and Grunt, keeping mana for Sprite open. He goes Mountain, double Spirit Guide and unmorphes Akroma, swinging for six. Ouch. Now, this is where I horribly misplay. I have Sword Of Fire And Ice and Jitte in hand. For whatever reason, I dropped Sword first. I swing, he swings, I realize I should have played Jitte first and lose.
2-3

Last round I played against Bant Aggro I think. Didn't see Natural Order. 0-2
Game one I lose fast. Don't remember what happened there.
Game two was long. Very long. He gets Stoneforge online and puts down Jitte. He equips, swings, I play Swords. I put down Spiketail and swing a few times, countering all his creatures. Eventually he plays Swords on my Spiketail. He plays a lot of things, but all of them eat Swords or Wing Shards. Shards was really good here. Whatever, for some reason I don't see anything else than lands then. He has a strong hand of Force, Force, Daze, Swords, Swords, Swords and I have five lands in play, six in had and two in my graveyard. No Wastelands. Tell me, how can I see thirteen of fifteen lands (Wastelands excluded) in around thirty cards? Weird shit.

The deck played nice, but Lavamancer wasn't good at all and I need some serious business. Maybe Serra Avenger, Jötun Grunt, or even Sea Drake. I think I going to test Avenger first, cause she's able to stall with any kind of Equipment. The board was nice. I cut the two Ravenous Traps for a Wheel Of Sun And Moon and an Enlightened Tutor. I think I'm going to stick with this.
The mainboard Mountain will be replaced with the fourth Wasteland I think. Of course I'll cut Volcanic for the fourth Tundra. Everything else was nice.
The list would then look like this:

//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

//Creatures
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
1 Sword Of Fire And Ice
4 Swords To Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Aura Of Silence
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Jötun Grunt
SB: 1 Relic Of Progenitus
SB: 4 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Wheel Of Sun And Moon
SB: 3 Wing Shards

+ 3 slots in the mainboard, should be creatures, preferably something that can stall. Serra Avanger seems to be perfect, but I'm not sure. She should be played with Vial I think. But then I could as well play U/W Tempo.