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Reagens
06-15-2010, 07:22 AM
Disclaimer: This deck was originally (to my knowledge) designed by Andrew Shugart and performed well with it at SCG Atlanta.

Since the price of Eureka skyrocketed I was interested myself.

The original deck by Andrew:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal

Creatures
4 Noble Hierarch

Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force Of Will
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Wipe Away

Legendary Creatures
4 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
4 Progenitus

Sorceries
3 Eureka
4 Ponder
4 Show And Tell

Basic Lands
1 Forest
3 Island

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island

Sideboard:
3 Blazing Archon
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Form Of The Dragon
4 Mindbreak Trap

The deck functions fairly simple and is designed to cheat a fatty into play turn 2-3 preferably with counter back-up.

I started testing myself and found out several problems with the deck:

- sometimes you get flooded by 1 of the 2 combo pieces and can't get the other, despite the abundance in cantrips.
- especially finding a creature can be excruciatingly difficult
- once and a while aggro can race you
- the sideboard is underwhelming to say the least
- when pressured, the manabase can be flimsy
- if you lose the 'surprise' factor you have to play VERY differently. Daze is next to useless then

First testings indicated that daze was a hard counter since most opponents tap out in their turns 1-2 (definetly) and mostly turn 3 as well. In those cases daze was as good as (or even better then) force.
Alas if your opponent doesn't then the card is practically a blank and only nets you a little tempo.
Considering the above problems I have done the following:

-4 daze
+4 intuition

Intuition is in effect a tutor that sets up a win the following turn. The fact that you can tutor up anything from protection to a creature is a very big help. I think the added consistency is definetly worth the loss of daze.

The real problem is the sideboard and sideboarding itself.
Most people don't know how to board against this deck and it is very difficult to asses what they are sideboarding in/out. Because of that it is possible that your opponent still has some creature removal in his deck (rendering blazing archon a big liability) and even form of the dragon gets answered from time to time (I don't even understand what people are thinking boarding krosan grip in).
Both are also prone to bounce which is bad news as well.
On the other hand faerie macabre is a house against several difficult decks and 4 anti combo slots are useful as well. Though I doubt if trap is the best answer to combo.

There are several routes open to this deck and I'll discuss a few (but this is definetly where I am hoping to get some new input, because I have the feeling I am chasing my own tail solving this). The objective is to replace form of the dragon and/or Archon with better solutions)

Problem 1: creatures with a CiP ability (Sower of temptation, stingscouger)

This can really ruin your day and it happens quite often that you NEED the annihilator 6 to survive long enough. Progenitus sometimes isn't fast enough to win you the game.

Problem 2: mana disruption.

Like I said some people keep their creature removal and it's mostly still there because they figure that it is not entirely dead because they can always point it at hierarch. Combined with either stifle/wasteland you can get into trouble quite quickly. Mostly those are decks that also run daze (MD) and spell pierce (SB).

Problem 3: spells/abilities that require you to sac a creature (edict etc).

Although this problem is somewhat offset by hierarch I can assure you that since people tend not to board out al their spot removal, this can be a very big threat to the deck.


Solutions considered:

Enable a hasted Emrakul/Progenitus.
This can be achieved through concordant crossroads, but can this really be a good idea? Especially with progenitus you can be overrun by a hasted 'goyf or 2.

A completely different kill post-board, thus suprising your opponent.
Leyline of the void + helm of obedience comes to mind. There are several other options but most take too much time to set up.
The fact that you can't put planeswalkers into play with show and tell shuts you off from a very interesting option as well (bolas)

Protection against some of the more disrupting strategies:

Teferi's response comes to mind. You gain tempo, card advantage and is a must counter for your opponent.
Kira Great-glass spinner is another option that helps you protect your Emrakul from CiP abilities and from sac effects as well.
Stifle is an answer to both but requires you to have mana open the turn you 'combo'.


Match-ups:

Although I haven't been able to thouroughly test the deck some first results:

Merfolk: clock + disruptio + islandwalk = problems. I doubt this can become a positive match-up through sideboarding. If you can land a turn 2 progenitus/emrakul you stand a chance but past that you're in bad shape.

Bant: depending on the build this is a quite positive match-up (even if they are running progenitus). Their clock is not extremely fast and when you take your time to make their dazes useless you have the same countermagic but this deck has more ways to find counter-backup.

Ichorid: Litlle testing, but quite positive. If they can't disrupt you turn 1-2 they quickly face a fatty. Emrakul is game over in that case.

Goblins: If they don't have the turn 1 lackey then you should be fine. Always make sure to have counter-backup for their weirding.

Tempo-*****: Surprisingly even when they 'only' run stifle/waste/force/daze but once they have Jace, Mind sculptor/ Sower of temptation/Vendillion Clique. It becomes very difficult.

As a conclusion I would want to say that it's a very fun deck to play. It'll never be a Tier 1 deck but it can certainly surprise an unprepared metagame. Because of availability issues with Eureka people will have difficulty playing without mistakes against the deck which is of course a big advantage.

Any comments/suggestions are welcome of course!

Well that's it for me.

SpikeyMikey
06-16-2010, 11:03 AM
So you're running 15 combo pieces, some disruption and some dig. Compare this to say Tendrils which runs 5 combo pieces, some disruption and some dig or a Gamekeeper based Emrakul which runs 4 combo pieces, some disruption and some dig. No matter how you slice it, you've got a very subpar combo and there's no way to make it better than existing decks.

Maveric78f
06-16-2010, 11:26 AM
Oversimplifying...

I have also a lot of oversimplifying statements "proving" that this combo is better than the 2 ones you've named.

This combo is better than AN, because with AN you have to design your whole deck to make storm a viable stategy.
This combo is better than Gamekeeper because game keeper just says gg to extirpate and probably to Faerie Macabre too.

Also this combo is 3/4CC which is cheaper than Gamekeeper.
Also gamekeeper is a 2 card combo, the Gamekeeper (only 4 in the deck) and the sacrifice outlet (quite a lot).
This combo is a 2 cards combo, the cheat (7cards) + the beast (8 cards).

Also this deck can't lose to painterstone and probably can't neither lose to Solidarity (even if giant stroke is still technically possible).

IsThisACatInAHat?
06-16-2010, 03:46 PM
Consider this (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30611) list. It's pre-Zen I think, so you can update it with Eldrazi monsters if you like. When I was screwing around with it on MWS, I actually ran into the creator who had changed some of the list (I think more SnT and targeted discard main, fewer targets and sweepers? not sure). Anyway, it managed to go off fairly regularly. But Veteran Explorer is a must. If your opponent doesn't attack into him, it buys you valuable time. If he does, you don't need time. If he uses removal or burn, that's stuff not used on you or your big guys. And Bolas is nutty too.

Reagens
06-17-2010, 04:07 AM
Consider this (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30611) list. It's pre-Zen I think, so you can update it with Eldrazi monsters if you like. When I was screwing around with it on MWS, I actually ran into the creator who had changed some of the list (I think more SnT and targeted discard main, fewer targets and sweepers? not sure). Anyway, it managed to go off fairly regularly. But Veteran Explorer is a must. If your opponent doesn't attack into him, it buys you valuable time. If he does, you don't need time. If he uses removal or burn, that's stuff not used on you or your big guys. And Bolas is nutty too.

Thanks for the feedback.

I looked at that list as well and although I think Bolas is 'nutty' as well the fact that S&T can't cheat it into play is too detrimental. Pity though because it's a great card (and planewalkers are relatively immune to most hate for this deck.)

Veteran explorere seems like an awful risk against my bad match-ups. I don't want to give Merfolk an extra 2 lands before I combo off.
Edit: I just realised that explorer also doesn't really work well with the annihilator mechanic.


A this point I'll be looking into Kira and Teferi's response for answers...

StefN
08-27-2010, 07:46 PM
Just want to share my experiece with this kind of deck. I tried the original list and in the last month I changed a lot especially in the sideboard. Until now I never went negative in a turnament. My stadings so far: 3-2, 5-1, 4-2. 4-0-1
Would be nice if someone could test the list and share some thoughts about it.

Emreka:

Maindeck:

4x Progenitus
4x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Lim-Dul's Vault
2x Echoing Truth

3x Ponder
4x Show and Tell
3x Eureka

4x Lotus Pedal

4x Ancient Tomb
1x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Salding Tarn
4x Underground Sea
4x Tropical Island
2x Island


Sideboard:

4x Spell Pierce
2x Thoughtseize
2x Krosan Grip
2x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Blazing Archon
2x Form of the Dragon
2x Sphinx of the Steel Wind

kinda
08-27-2010, 10:38 PM
Just want to share my experiece with this kind of deck. I tried the original list and in the last month I changed a lot especially in the sideboard. Until now I never went negative in a turnament. My stadings so far: 3-2, 5-1, 4-2. 4-0-1
Would be nice if someone could test the list and share some thoughts about it.

Emreka:

Maindeck:

4x Progenitus
4x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Lim-Dul's Vault
2x Echoing Truth

3x Ponder
4x Show and Tell
3x Eureka

4x Lotus Pedal

4x Ancient Tomb
1x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Salding Tarn
4x Underground Sea
4x Tropical Island
2x Island


Sideboard:

4x Spell Pierce
2x Thoughtseize
2x Krosan Grip
2x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Blazing Archon
2x Form of the Dragon
2x Sphinx of the Steel Wind

Thoughtseize is better than daze...eureka in my experience is too bad vs. goblins, merfolk, and new horizons. The gg is rough and costing 4 is bad vs. those decks...plus goblins doesn't mind eureka a lot of the time.

I vouch for this:

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [A] Island
3 [A] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [b] Tropical Island
1 [b] Bayou
1 [LG] City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Progenitus
4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
3 [M10] Ponder
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [PT] Personal Tutor
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [AL] Lim-Dul's Vault
2 [SC] Form of the Dragon
3 [US] Lotus petal

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 4 [TO] Duress or xantid swarm (heavy merfolk meta) or cabal therapy (aluren/snt heavy meta)
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [US] Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 [TSP] Wipe Away
SB: 1 [LG] Eureka