[Brainstorming] Big Blue

[majikal]

With the unbanning of Grim Monolith, it is possible we could see a comeback of some old favorites from Saga-era Standard. My pick is Big Blue.

The object of the deck was to control the game with blue spells while using artifact mana to accelerate into things like Masticore and Morphling.

However, in Legacy, things like Morphling just don't cut it anymore, so we would need to find something else to power out, which brings us to the meat of the proposal - As we all know, Power Artifact, when combined with Grim Monolith, generates an arbitrary amount of mana. The problem with abusing this is twofold: One, what to use the mana on, and two, how practical is it to run cards in your deck that are dependent on this combo. Especially with the banning of Mystical Tutor that accompanied the reintroduction of our artifact friend into the format, it doesn't seem very worthwhile to use something like Stroke of Genius to sink your mana into a win. But what about Eldrazi? They're big, they're splashy, they cost colorless mana, and the most interesting one makes you Time Walk when you cast it.

Here is a proposed decklist for an updated Big Blue:

4x Ancient Tomb
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Polluted Delta
8x Island

4x Grim Monolith
4x Chrome Mox
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Staff of Domination

4x Power Artifact
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Counterbalance
4x Brainstorm
4x Thirst for Knowledge

2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

[lordofthepit]

Especially with the banning of Mystical Tutor that accompanied the reintroduction of our artifact friend into the format, it doesn't seem very worthwhile to use something like Stroke of Genius to sink your mana into a win. But what about Eldrazi? They're big, they're splashy, they cost colorless mana, and the most interesting one makes you Time Walk when you cast it.

Why Eldrazi over Stroke of Genius? Eldrazi is pretty useless if you can't combo off, whereas Stroke of Genius can actually allow you to draw cards. This is if you assume Emrakul's "Gaea's Blessing" trigger is useless, which pretty much presupposes that decking out an opponent is a good plan.

Edit: I guess Emrakul can't be countered, but it's by no means an auto-win.

[majikal]

Why Eldrazi over Stroke of Genius? Eldrazi is pretty useless if you can't combo off, whereas Stroke of Genius can actually allow you to draw cards. This is if you assume Emrakul's "Gaea's Blessing" trigger is useless, which pretty much presupposes that decking out an opponent is a good plan.

Edit: I guess Emrakul can't be countered, but it's by no means an auto-win.
Mostly because Stroke gets countered, honestly. Also because if for some reason your combo gets disrupted, you still have a chance to ramp up your artifact mana and win with Emrakul while hiding behind CB/Top.

I'm not too worried about drawing cards, either, between Brainstorm, Top, Thirst, and Jace.

At any rate I'm open to suggestions since this is just a draft list. Monolith isn't even legal until July 1, so there's plenty of time to optimize before taking it to any kind of tournament. :)

I do feel like there needs to be an Academy Ruins, though. Maybe in place of an Ancient Tomb.

[Mr. Forsberg]

Wouldn't Tezzeret the Seeker be pretty insane in a deck like this, as well?

[Greenpoe]

Try Fabricate, 2U goes great with the stompy land. Muddle the Mixture = neat tech for finding Power Artifact or countering a spell.

[Boogie]

Have you considered cunning wish? this would allow you to combo off at instant speed, easing on the counter-prone issue a little. and it isn't as dead as emrakul or stroke in the main. you could have some sweet wish targets like submerge, curfew, stroke, misdirection, mindbreak trap,ravenous trap, and whatever else. Plus, you run a shitton of disruption. They Will probably be countering your power artifacts and stuff anyway.

I also agree that tezz should be in here. He is an alternate win condition, and a super tutor that makes mana with a monolith or two.

perhaps a counterbalance could be moved to the board for the matches where a lot of blind-flipping may matter. I just don't personally like 4 of each, because extras are dead, but at least you can pitch tops to thirst.

I like the wish more than the emrakul, but I think only one, maybe two at the most would be necessary. With +2 tezz to the main, it will be much easier to find staff when you need it, and that will draw you infinite cards, with which you can protect your singleton wish. And if you used it already, you can just draw half your deck and wait for tezz to go lethal.

[befuddlement]

I was thinking of something like this with Trinket Mage, Expedition Map. and Eye of Ugin. It is a convoluted way to tutor for Emrakul and its a turn slower than just playing Emrakul as you need a land drop; but it is relatively compact and Trinket Mage can have other functions like getting Sensei's Divining Top.

[serendib]

I think stroke of genius could be a better winning condition than the eldrazi creatures.
first of all is blue (fow & mox)
secondly it could be usefull as a cc3 to reveal with counterbalance
third thing: it can make you draw for example 2/3 cards if you need
forth thing: the way of winning is more fashon [you draw your entire deck, then you cast a second one you drew having all your FoW you didn't play so far in your hand ]

[slaughtercult]

The list I'm currently messing around with looks like so...

Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
10 [ZEN] Island
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod

Creatures
4 [UD] Metalworker
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn

Spells
4 [US] Grim Monolith
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [M10] Fabricate
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [AQ] Power Artifact
4 [FD] Staff of Domination
2 [US] Stroke of Genius
1 [AQ] Transmute Artifact
4 [DS] Trinisphere
1 [US] Whetstone
2 [ALA] Tezzeret the Seeker

Power Artifact/Grim Monolith gives you infinite mana to use toward Whetstone or Stroke Of Genius for a win. Metalworker and Staff Of Domination have potential to draw your deck, give infinite life and mana to also use toward said milling effects or cast Emrakul.

I haven't completely worked out a sideboard. My meta has dredge and control as the main decks and the rest are a random assortment of combo and aggro.Maybe something like this...

3 Defense Grid
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Relic Of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Force Of Will
2 Back To Basics

I've been contemplating a splash of white for things like abeyance (sb) and Enlightened Tutor but I'd rather not be more susceptible to wasteland effects. Any help or ideas are greatly appreciated.

[ddt15]

I searched around abit and found these two lists:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32348

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34304

[Djenin]

Been playing with a deck like this on MWS, it's pretty funny so far. My list is horribly inconsistent but manages to pull off quite a few wins. Most people don't seem very happy to see this kind of deck though. >.<

This is the list I played:

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [B] Tundra
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
7 [ZEN] Island (1a)
3 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 [UL] Grim Monolith
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
2 [FD] Staff of Domination
1 [B] Braingeyser
4 [B] Counterspell
4 [RAV] Muddle the Mixture
4 [AQ] Power Artifact
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor




Some good stuff:

<Golf> thx bye i fucking hate wotc
<System> Player Lost

<BlackWizard> donkey deck
<System> Player Lost

<mr. Gray.> grim monoliyj os basaned =0
<O> i said new b/r
<mr. Gray.> it was benaed in 1999
<mr. Gray.> =0
<System> Player Lost

[majikal]

Been playing with a deck like this on MWS, it's pretty funny so far. My list is horribly inconsistent but manages to pull off quite a few wins. Most people don't seem very happy to see this kind of deck though. >.<

This is the list I played:

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [B] Tundra
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
7 [ZEN] Island (1a)
3 [EX] City of Traitors

// Creatures
2 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

// Spells
4 [UL] Grim Monolith
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
2 [FD] Staff of Domination
1 [B] Braingeyser
4 [B] Counterspell
4 [RAV] Muddle the Mixture
4 [AQ] Power Artifact
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
LMAO! Whetstone is brilliant! I'll have to try that out.


Some good stuff:

<Golf> thx bye i fucking hate wotc
<System> Player Lost

<BlackWizard> donkey deck
<System> Player Lost

<mr. Gray.> grim monoliyj os basaned =0
<O> i said new b/r
<mr. Gray.> it was benaed in 1999
<mr. Gray.> =0
<System> Player Lost
HAHAHAHA

I think we should call this Donkey.dec

[Brizentine Empire]

I like the ideas! One thing though: how would this deck match up against the tier 1 decks in legacy right now? Especially, how does it match up against zoo? Zoo seems like it would be able to apply too much pressure while disrupting the combo (Qasali destroying the Monolith). The same would go for Merfolk, who would counter the Monolith as well. Sure, we have FoW, but if we wait for counter backup they will apply too much pressure as well, so what are the game plans for these match-ups? We have to remember, although ANT and Reanimator will be severely hurt by the new B/R rules, the format is still extremely fast, with the aggro decks capable of turn 4 wins.

Chalice seems like a definite option, as it can greatly hurt zoo, merfolk, and golbins when played at 1, but chalice is also an extremely inconsistent card as it needs a dual-producing land to have that turn one effectiveness and can also hurt your own brainstorms, etc. Counter-top is another good option, but as a lot of people in the Counter-top boards will tell you, it is often too slow unless immediately followed up by a fattie (usually RWM, as it makes up the loss in life the first two turns), and seeing as how this deck doesn't play any creatures, or only 4 if you play Trinket Mage, it doesn't seem like the best option either.

So, is there a way to ignore the whole control element and go straight for blue combo? Sure, but the thing is: You need Grim Monolith, Power Artifact, and Emrakul/Eye of Ugin or Stroke of Genius (and this option requires FoW back-up).

So, my question is this: With testing, which is the best option out there for this deck? Or is playing painter just plain better, as it only requires two cards to combo?

[majikal]

Well, if you don't have Power Artifact already, good luck finding any for a reasonable price. Looks like they just disappeared from the internet.

[Indykid Vago]

I cant prove that wrong without posting what basically amount to a link to another vendor but you can PM me .

[P.S.]

4x Power Artifact
4x Grim Monolith
4x Stroke of Genius


That is how I would start with this deck. Then, from there, I would want to protect it and make it faster. That gives you a plethora of choices, like Force of Will, Daze, Pact of Negation, Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, etc.

I really see no reason why you should not run Stroke or try to streamline the deck to make it as degenerate as possible. They want to unban Grim Monolith, so the players are going to exploit that. HARD.

The only card I would even worry about is Krosan Grip and at 3cc, if the deck is tuned probably, it would probably be too slow.

[Kagehisa]

Hello dear Friends,

Why not Transmute Artifact + Fieldmist Borderpost or ( Mistvein Borderpost ) ?

Fieldmist Borderpost is Artifact, 1WU, CMC=3 :

"You may pay 1 and return a basic land you control to its owner's hand rather than pay Fieldmist Borderpost's mana cost.

Fieldmist Borderpost enters the battlefield tapped.

Tap: Add W or U to your mana pool."

It can be used with Transmute Artifact to get Grim Monolith or Basalt Monolith.

[death]

Wouldn't Spawnsire of Ulamog be pretty insane in a deck like this, as well?

The deck will truly live up to its name, really. Just split a slot with Staff of Domination or Emrakul.

[rufus]

I was thinking about this, and I think that a natural thing to combine with Grim Monolith is Painter's Servant/Grindstone and Gifts Ungiven rather than the big draw cards.

Besides Stroke of Genius there's also Braingeyser at :u::u: it's got more color requirement, and is a sorcery but it's slightly more efficient when you're trying to go off, and Skeletal Scrying though that too, has issues.

Transmute Artifact->Lotus Bloom is also a cute engine possibility. If you're going to do tricks with that, you might as well use the affinity suite though. There is an issue that there aren't really any compelling 5 cc artifacts available for Transmute Artifact+Grim Monolith.

[ddt15]

I was thinking about this, and I think that a natural thing to combine with Grim Monolith is Painter's Servant/Grindstone and Gifts Ungiven rather than the big draw cards.
I would combine Monolith with Tezzeret, which can get you lots of mana to start playing Gifts or Facts. Obviously Tezzeret can also win with the Painter/Grindstone combo the turn after he hits play (much like vintage Tezz can win when they get to untap with Tezz in play), or simply with Tezz's ultimate and random artifacts.

Grim monolith should definetly power a Tezzeret deck imo. Just seems like a perfect fit.

[ddt15]

x

[rufus]

I would combine Monolith with Tezzeret, which can get you lots of mana to start playing Gifts or Facts. Obviously Tezzeret can also win with the Painter/Grindstone combo the turn after he hits play ...

I'm feeling slow here, how does that work?

[majikal]

I'm feeling slow here, how does that work?
Tezzeret untaps your artifacts, and with Grim Monolith in play - especially if you have two of them - you get a shit ton of mana. It's like Voltaic Key, only with a built-in win condition when you run out of stuff to play (make all your artifacts 5/5s).

[jazzykat]

This deck has tested OK vs. random opponents. To my chagrin I wound up cutting the MD Grim Monolith's for 3sphere main. The Monolith's would just sit in my hand or be a cute trick. I'm not really sure what to say except that Dampning Matrix is a beating in the current meta and apparently CoTV+3sphere+BloodMoon+Tanglewire+Lodestone Golem+Reccuring Wasteland is mildly disruptive for an unsuspecting oppoent. Unfortunately, I can't find a home for Monolith yet, however this list should at least provide you the enjoyment of bashing with obnoxious fat.


// Bigger blue

// Lands
4 [U] Volcanic Island
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [HOP] Seat of the Synod
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [JGC] Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Esperzoa
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem

// Spells
4 [CH] Blood Moon
3 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [NE] Tangle Wire
1 [ALA] Tezzeret the Seeker
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [MR] Damping Matrix
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda

[majikal]

I think you might be in the wrong thread, jazzykat. That looks like some kind of MUD.