Illusionary Mask + Phyrexian Dreadnought

[Forbiddian]

Or other comes into play ability creatures.


To make the rules question even more clear:

Can you use Illusionary Mask's ability to put a Dreadnought from your hand into play face down, and then flip it face up as a 12/12 trample later without triggering the comes into play ability?

[menace13]

Or other comes into play ability creatures.


To make the rules question even more clear:

Can you use Illusionary Mask's ability to put a Dreadnought from your hand into play face down, and then flip it face up as a 12/12 trample later without triggering the comes into play ability?

Yes, it will allow you to cheat a nought in, however it is still counterable and subject to any type of removal that is legal to target Dreadnought even face down.

There was a time when it was uncounterable and i think it was able to use off of Workshop.

[jrsthethird]

Obligatory question, this would've been up 4 hours earlier if everyone wasn't so pissed about Mystical Tutor. Maybe there should be a stickied Mask thread like there is for Humility?

[Forbiddian]

Obligatory question, this would've been up 4 hours earlier if everyone wasn't so pissed about Mystical Tutor. Maybe there should be a stickied Mask thread like there is for Humility?

It's not complicated at all, I was just confused because Bardo said that Mask doesn't work anymore. I guess he just meant it's not an Aether Vial + a cheat, and it's just a cheat.

[hjalte]

But as far as I can read, from the oracle rulings, it is not possible to turn it face up whenever you want. This makes it quite terrible, as you won't be able to use morph creatures "face up" abilities whenever you like. (for example Voidmage Apprentice, Fathom Seer or Skinthinner).
Which means that they can be killed with Swords to plowshares for example, without triggering their ability...


Oracle of Illusionary mask:
{X}: You may choose a creature card in your hand whose mana cost could be paid by some amount of, or all of, the mana you spent on {X}. If you do, you may cast that card face down as a 2/2 creature spell without paying its mana cost. If the creature that spell becomes as it resolves has not been turned face up and would assign or deal damage, be dealt damage, or become tapped, instead it's turned face up and assigns or deals damage, is dealt damage, or becomes tapped. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.

[menace13]

The mana for Mask is tapped and paid 1st, it must be of the same color as the creature( Pridemage is still GW). It will not allow you to play Serra before the 4th turn.
The creature will flip over after attacking or when dealt damage( Nought will be 12/12 Trample), Removal will not( StP nets you 2 life from Nought). Disenchant will not be legal on the face down Nought. Massacre type spells work.

[cdr]

But as far as I can read, from the oracle rulings, it is not possible to turn it face up whenever you want. This makes it quite terrible, as you won't be able to use morph creatures "face up" abilities whenever you like. (for example Voidmage Apprentice, Fathom Seer or Skinthinner).

You *can* use the morph costs of morph creatures no matter how they were turned face down, so they work fine with Mask.

You can't use the morph costs of creatures if Humility is in play though, since "unmorphing" requires checking what the morph cost would be were the creature face up.

[_erbs_]

hello
question

can i stifle the illusionay masks ability that checks the casting cost once the creature if flipped up ?


thanks

[dorsch]

Illusionary Mask has exactly one ability which you can stifle.
The activated ability


{X}: You may choose a creature card in your hand whose mana cost could be paid by some amount of, or all of, the mana you spent on {X}. If you do, you may cast that card face down as a 2/2 creature spell without paying its mana cost. If the creature that spell becomes as it resolves has not been turned face up and would assign or deal damage, be dealt damage, or become tapped, instead it's turned face up and assigns or deals damage, is dealt damage, or becomes tapped. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.

As soon as you opponent pays one (or more) mana to put a creature in play, you may cast stifle. Stifle has no other use on this card.

[rufus]

Dryad Arbor has no casting cost, can it still be played with this version of Illusionary Mask?

[cdr]

No mana cost is an unpayable cost. You can't pay an unpayable cost, so there is no value you could activate Mask with and legally choose Dryad Arbor.

[ryO!]

can we counterspell/fow w/e the "cast" from the mask ?

[cdr]

It's not "cast", it's cast. Read the Oracle text. If something is being cast, it can be countered.

[Papillon]

It will not allow you to play Serra before the 4th turn.

Yes it will.


601.5a If an effect allows a card that’s prohibited from being cast to be cast face down, and the
face-down spell would not be prohibited, that spell can be cast face down. See rule 707, “Face-
Down Spells and Permanents.”

[menace13]

Yes it will.

I am not sure, but i test these things on MTGO, if it is a bug you are right, however as of now it will not allow Serra Avenger to be cast before the 4th turn.

[cdr]

Do not rely on MTGO for rules, especially with things like Illusionary Mask.

[jrsthethird]

You should probably report that, I'm sure they're not aware of every single bug that exists for such a niche card.

[menace13]

Yes, I reported it now. Was not certain i tend to rust MTGO rulings, even though this one was like over a year and unreported. Found the answer on Salvation some guy posted it months ago.

707.4. Objects that are cast face down are turned face down before they are put onto the stack, so effects that care about the characteristics of a spell will see only the face-down spell's characteristics. Any effects or prohibitions that would apply to casting an object with these characteristics (and not the face-up object's characteristics) are applied to casting this object.

Anyone has any Mask questions post them and i will try my best to promptly test them(on MTGO).

[cdr]

Anyone has any Mask questions post them and i will try my best to promptly test them(on MTGO).

Again, no. We'll answer rules questions with rules, not MTGO.

[sigfig8]

Can I pay extra mana to put a face down creature into play in order to avoid getting countered via counterbalance? For example, can I pay 4 mana to put Phyrexian Dreadnought into play so that my opponent can't use top ---> draw card ----> counterbalance trigger ---> reveal top.

[cdr]

Can I pay extra mana to put a face down creature into play in order to avoid getting countered via counterbalance? For example, can I pay 4 mana to put Phyrexian Dreadnought into play so that my opponent can't use top ---> draw card ----> counterbalance trigger ---> reveal top.

The converted mana cost of a face-down spell is 0, just like using morph.

[sigfig8]

The converted mana cost of a face-down spell is 0, just like using morph.

OK, good to know. So that means counterbalance reveailing land, chalice, engineered explosives, etc. will all counter the face-down creature.

Thanks for the fast reply!

[kusumoto]

So even though it says on the card that X can be 0, it can't be?

[dorsch]

If you want to cast an ornithopter face down, you can pay {0} for {X}.
Or did you ask something different?

[kusumoto]

Well the actual text on the card would seem to indicate that you could put any creature on it for 0.

I guess you can't do that then?

So if you attack with the facedown creature it flips up then you have to pay the cost? If it got burned would it flip and you pay the cost? The cost being the difference I guess. So you have to pay at least 1 if it costs that or more?

[Malchar]

The mask says that you must be able to pay the creature's mana cost with X, so X must be at least as big as the card's mana cost. You can pay extra, but not less.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Could you cheat a suspent creature in?
edit: nvm there is no suspend creature wich can only be suspended

[Malchar]

If there was, I don't think that it would work. A blank mana cost can't be paid, so you wouldn't be able to fulfill the criteria of using the mask ability.