The State of Extended Mana Base

[Tog]

I didn't know where else to post this. If anyone knows of a dedicated Extended forum, please forward me to it. I respect the level of expertise at this forum so I thought I would pose the question here. Here it is: What do you think will happen to the Extended mana base?

I took the time to collect the Zendikar fetches because I thought Ravnica block (along with its shocklands) would be Extended legal for a couple more years. Duals + Fetches have defined deck mana bases for years and is usually the biggest barrier to entry in to the format. It's really annoying when the lands themselves cost more than the spells in the deck. However with the advent of the new bannings, the shocklands will no longer be available. I don't think fetches without duals (even on color) will cut it for the future. What's the next best alternative? I'm leaning towards the Lorwyn-Shadowmoor Block filter lands but am unsure.

For all you Legacy players, if someone told you that you could no longer play with duals (Revised or Ravnica Block) in Legacy, what steps would you take in fixing your manabase?

[TokenMaster]

Depending on the deck, some people might switch to multi-colored lands with minimal drawbacks.(Gemstone Mine?) Ravnica duals aren't out of the question, either. I would think maybe a setup with 9 fetches and 2-4 Ravnica duals(or more, if you're running a lot of 3+ different colors), since that's all you really need.

[Tog]

The problem is that the only legal sets in Extended will from Time Spiral onward (which includes Time Spiral Block, Lorwyn-Shadowmoor Block, Shards of Alara Block, and Zendikar Block). This means Ravnica block duals can no longer be used. Do you think fetches without the duals to support them are good enough (assuming landfall & shuffle effects are irrelevant)?

[Nelis]

The problem is that the only legal sets in Extended will from Time Spiral onward. This means Ravnica block duals can no longer be used. Do you think fetches without the duals to support them are good enough (assuming landfall & shuffle effects are irrelevant)?

There's the M10 lands. If you combine them with the fetch lands you should have enough. (edit: oh thats for extended)

For legacy Fetch and Ravnica duals.

[TokenMaster]

The problem is that the only legal sets in Extended will from Time Spiral onward (which includes Time Spiral Block, Lorwyn-Shadowmoor Block, Shards of Alara Block, and Zendikar Block). This means Ravnica block duals can no longer be used. Do you think fetches without the duals to support them are good enough (assuming landfall & shuffle effects are irrelevant)?
Sorry, that was actually a response to if Wizards (hypothtically) banned revised duals from legacy.

I would agree that people would turn to M10 duals and run ~8 fetches. Not so sure on yet. If they could care less about life totals and REALLY need that first turn play, then maybe go back to painlands until 10th edition rotates out. For tribal, there's also the Lorwyn-block duals.(which will probably be the primary mana sources for said tribal decks)

[Tog]

I don't think Zendikar fetches and M10 lands are a reasonable answer considering Zen fetches are enemy aligned whereas the M10 lands are aligned by ally colors. I don't play any standard but take this UW Control deck as an example: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36537. Despite the availability of fetches, it doesn't use them (it can only fetch one land type for 1 life). Is this going to the be the face of the new mana base? I just wanted to generate some discussion as to how to go about investing for the future Extended format and to draw upon the experiences that others might have had with other nonbasic mana fixers.

[TokenMaster]

I'm pretty sure most people will be playing some kind of 3+ color deck, at least until shards rotates out. Maybe maintaining the current standard options alongside 5cc and Doran rock.

[MMogg]

I don't think Zendikar fetches and M10 lands are a reasonable answer considering Zen fetches are enemy aligned whereas the M10 lands are aligned by ally colors. I don't play any standard but take this UW Control deck as an example: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=36537. Despite the availability of fetches, it doesn't use them (it can only fetch one land type for 1 life). Is this going to the be the face of the new mana base? I just wanted to generate some discussion as to how to go about investing for the future Extended format and to draw upon the experiences that others might have had with other nonbasic mana fixers.

The fact that UW Control doesn't use fetches also has to do with the idea of thinning out one's deck of mana. The same idea of why mono red Goblins uses fetchlands is the same reason why control would not want to do so. Control decks (non-Legacy) tend to be slow moving and mana hungry.

[dahcmai]

M10 Duals, Painlands, Filter lands, and enemy Fetches not enough for you? Seems easy enough in my book. If anything look to standard, those decks don't have much problem even coming up with 4 color decks. 5 color control was just in standard during Lorwyn. Surely you can just use it's manabase for most anything. Decks trying to jam in Nacatyl, Kird Ape, and Loam Lion all in the same deck are the only ones who are out of luck.

[Tog]

There are certainly a lot of options but which is the next best alternative after the dual+fetch combo? Painlands have been around forever and have fallen out of favor a long time ago. The five color mana base inthe old standard may be too slow for the new extended though this assumption really has no basis. I think it boils down to the M10 duals and the Lorwyn filters. What nonbasic combination is better? Can enemy color fixing actually have come out on top this time around? For enemy colors: Filter + Fetch seems like it would be enough whereas the M10 duals gets weaker as you dilute it with more nonbasics.

[Nidd]

There are certainly a lot of options but which is the next best alternative after the dual+fetch combo? Painlands have been around forever and have fallen out of favor a long time ago. The five color mana base inthe old standard may be too slow for the new extended though this assumption really has no basis. I think it boils down to the M10 duals and the Lorwyn filters. What nonbasic combination is better? Can enemy color fixing actually have come out on top this time around? For enemy colors: Filter + Fetch seems like it would be enough whereas the M10 duals gets weaker as you dilute it with more nonbasics.
The manabase of choice depends more on the deck than on anything else, really.

2 colored non-tribal decks will use the M10 Duals + possibly Fetches and Manlands, Tribal decks will use the corresponding lands, 5CC will use the Vivid manabase + Reflecting Pools.
Filter lands will be used to balance out weaknesses in the manabase I suppose.

[TheCramp]

I have started brewing for new extended. I was thinking about a GW little kid sort of thing, and then drifted over to junk because of how the Zen lands support that. Then I realized that I could fetch Murmuring Bosk with a verdant catacomb. I like the mana base a lot, I get to play KotR and 'Goyf for sure. Maelstrom Pulse will probably join the party. Anyway, that is where I started. People will dust off Faries, and play Jund with 'goyfs till scars drops as well. Reflecting pool may be important. Kithkin will get Tectonic edge, which seems classic. Goblins will be played. I am going to try to hit as much extended prior to scars as I can, because I think it looks like a sick format. If there was a thread here talking about it, I would contribute for sure.

[jbmulder]

I'm starting to become a believer in this "overextended" rumor.

One of the reasons I can see Wizards creating this new format is because they'd have complete control over reprinting the shocklands. These lands would be the "new" dual lands for the format.

I can see Wizards reprinting the shocklands in M12 or M13, dropping them into the laps of extended players again.

That's not much help to you now, just something to think about.

[MMogg]

I'm starting to become a believer in this "overextended" rumor.

One of the reasons I can see Wizards creating this new format is because they'd have complete control over reprinting the shocklands. These lands would be the "new" dual lands for the format.

I can see Wizards reprinting the shocklands in M12 or M13, dropping them into the laps of extended players again.

That's not much help to you now, just something to think about.

+1 Actually, even if Overextended is not true, I don't think it's a good idea to offload Ravinca duals unless you get a super good price for them, otherwise, if you're an Extended/Standard player, you may need them again in the short term future (can be reprinted even without Overextended). Of course, we are but marionettes and WotC pulls the strings, so it's anyone's guess what will actually happen.

[Fuzzy]

Vivids + Reflecting Pool + Filter.