View Full Version : Basics. Get back to them.
raharu
06-20-2010, 10:53 PM
So, I've always had a fettish for blue, the type of control that drastically limits your opponents options and captiolizes on their mistakes, and threats. For the longest time I tried to mesh the ideas, a great myriad of concepts, most of which didn't really satisfy me. I've been out of magic for a good while, but a couple weeks ago I was suddenly in the mood again, and this is the resultant:
Lands: 19
Flooded Strand x4
Polluted Delta x1
Tundra x1
Island x10
Plains x3
Enchantments: 12
Counterbalance x4
Propaganda x4
Back to Basics x4
Instants: 15
Spell Pierce x3
Brainstorm x4
Swords to Plowshares x4
Force of Will x4
Creatures: 7
Meddling Mage x4
Sower of Temptation x3
Artifacts: 7
Sensei's Divining Top x4
Vedlaken Shackles x3
It's really rag-tag, but it makes me smile. Iit looks like it could have a problem winning, and doesn't have any way to address resolved non-creature threats, *and* I'm having a hard time not wedging in black for Dark Confidant and Edict, but it should do what it's supposed to well, that being make you ropponent make really hard choices, and punish them for whatever they decide. I'm just kinda vomiting the idea up to see what thoughts are on it. Everything is appreciated, particularrly the negative.
Vacrix
06-20-2010, 11:35 PM
I played against something like this the other day. I don't think he maindecked any countermagic though. It was a very odd deck. He played MD Runed Halo, Enlightened Tutor, and Wheel of Sun and Moon + Energy Field.
His win con was Luminarch Ascension.
Hope that helps!
danyul
06-20-2010, 11:44 PM
No Jace?
Vacrix
06-21-2010, 12:21 AM
Jace would also be a pretty good win condition. Your deck currently lacks a way to win.
GiantGrowth
06-24-2010, 12:07 AM
I'm not going to say that Jace would be bad for the deck, but I will say he is a terrible wincon, much much too slow, Luminarch could work, and much faster, before they have a chance to draw into hate/answers
Svenanole
06-24-2010, 12:25 AM
jace may be super slow, but he is a great win con for any control deck
Once you figure out how to use him, he is absolutely sicks
Lord_Cyrus
06-24-2010, 12:36 AM
Long live Jace the Second! Agreed, he's a card advantage house. Sadly, it's not that hard to get him up to 12 loyalty and grind out the wins. I think you really want either Powder Keg or Engineered Explosives also. It's a good deck but decks like Cat Sligh are gonna be a royal pain in the ass. Better board up some Moats (or at least Ghostly Prisons)
raharu
07-06-2010, 08:43 AM
To be blunt, jace just seems terrible. He's a good supply engine, but when it comes to winning it's just... it looks bad. Sure you can grind them forever with him and eventually get up to twelve counters, but at that point it'd be just as easy to polymorph into emrakul, and faster and less susceptible to burn, you know? I don't see the allure. Hoofprints (which I've been testing in the place of two mages and something else I can't quite remember) are amazing and they also help me stabilize, serving the dual role of winning me the game and saving me the game if things get nasty. Logically it sounds like a better plan. A balance of both would work really well, and I'd suggest that to anyone considering the deck, but personally I do believe I'll stick with the hoofprints themselves. Jace is too... "combo-ey" for me.
Hanni
07-06-2010, 09:04 AM
Jace, the Mind Sculptor is absolutely brutal. When he was first spoiled, nearly everyone dismissed him.
Now that people have had a chance to play with him, everyone has started to realize just how strong he really is. Many people are starting to swear by him, and for good reason.
You underestimate his fatesealing, especially when you have a CounterTop lock going. You control what they get to draw. If it's something you can't handle with a Counterspell, CounterTop, etc... you put it to the bottom. If it's something you can handle, or something worthless like an excess land, you let them keep it and you basically blank their turn.
If the opponent manages to draw a bomb that you cannot answer while you are fatesealing them, you can use the Brainstorm-effect on Jace to try and dig into an answer.
It doesn't take very long to get to enough counters to pop his ultimate, and once you pop the ultimate, it's gg.
Jace also gives you another means of answering creatures, especially if for whatever reason the opponent gets a creature into play before you assemble a CounterTop lock. Bouncing the creature, only to CounterTop it from coming back into play, is pretty good.
As far as your deck goes, you should up the fetchland count. Fetchlands are necessary with Top, and they play very nicely with B2B. You can also have a very consistent U/W manabase using only fetchlands and basics. I'd cut Meddling Mage and Sower of Temptation to fit in a few Wrath of God. Even with Meddling Mage, your 2cc count is extremely low for abusing CounterTop, and you should definitely add some Counterspells to help fix this. I also notice that you lack any sort of draw; consider running at least a couple of Predict's, they are amazing in a deck like yours (Brainstorm/Top), and they are 2cc for Counterbalance. I'd fit in a couple Jace, too.
raharu
07-06-2010, 11:28 PM
The question is what you would take out for Jace, really. You don't touch artifacts or enchantments because if you take too many out you become susceptible to Krosan Grip, Sower is kinds nuts considering you just take or remove all their monsters (really, you do. This fact really punishes agro and even agro conrol because you out-resource them and generally win because they're haveing to answer their own creatures. Shackles is an infinity for one and Sower is essentially a three for one, becaues you have it, you take their creature, and gain another of your own), Meddling Mage is an idea but I'd rather have the Predicts, since I've been thinking about them a good bit (even though I really want Ponder to help set it up), and everything else is pretty much core to the list. You're right about the 2cc slot, and having hoofprints helps, but taking out too many Mages kinds makes the deck blow. Mage is great because you typically always have something to name, and if they're playing green you can force them to remove it (by naming Krosan Grip, because even with CounterTop, Shackles, Propaganda, and Back to Basics, they still bring in the Grips, as many as they can cheat in), and making them waste removal on that instead of Shackled monsters, Sower, or even tokens is nice because no-one runs a whole lot of removal. Four StP isn't doing a whole lot when they have to answer their own creatures, and yours. Looking at the synergy of the deck, what do you cut? Do you shave and have fewer targest for Grip? Do you hedge into something else? Run fewer win cons (I understand that Jace decks them when you go ultimate, but I'm refering to things that actually kill them), or cut Sowers (which while it makes the most sense, looking at the synergy, just Shackles and StP kinds feels... icky)? I'd rather take those slots, wherever you find them, and try to buff the 2cc slot, or get draw, or something else. Predict does all that. I guess it's a preference thing, but I'm assuming that most will wedge Jace in.
Hanni
07-06-2010, 11:39 PM
I understand that Jace decks them when you go ultimate, but I'm refering to things that actually kill them
You'd be suprised how many times my opponent's scoop to my Jace before I even pop ultimate (11 counters seems to be the popular scooping number).
I'd definitely cut Sower, because the only creatures you run are Mage and Sower. That means that you're opponent's will almost always aim a removal spell at Sower. For the same 2UU, you can cast Jace, which is a much stronger card.
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