Exemplary Knights

[Elvish-Champion]

Hi together,

first of all the list:

Lands// 24

4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Plains
1 Forest
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Stirring Wildwood

Creatures// 25

4 Knight Exemplar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
3 Kinsbaile Cavalier
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege

Spells// 11

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
3 Armageddon

I'm not sure about the SB, but it could be something like this:

3 Gaddock Teeg/ Ethersworn Canonist
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Oblivion Ring/ 2 Path to Exile


First of all, the most significant strenght is the Counterbalance evasion. The most important spells costs 3 or 4. Aether Vial is also a very necessary factor. It does either card advantage, for example they counter it with FoW or speed advantage if it gets countered via Daze(if he returns an island of course).
Some of the creatures maybe looking a bit confusing, but i think they are very good in combination.
Especially the Cavalier won more than 60% of all games.
Furthermore the manabase does a good job, maybe stirring wildwood is not the best, but it seems to be very good.
Some of you perhaps missing Tarmogoyf. I already thought about him, he is good with Vial and so on, but the deck doesn't have enough different card types and that's necessary.

Only for visualization i will list some matches for you.

Bant, Counterbalance Goyf and more.
Roll: He wins and he starts

Game 1:
He starts with dual and Sensei's. I play windswepts->savannah and Aether Vial, he thinks some time and let it resolve.
He went on with Counterbalance second turn, quite good. I go for Wasteland and waste his Tropical. He drops land and goes for Goyf. I get hit once after putting land and counter on vial. He goes on with Brainstorm and want to atk for 2, he missed landdrop so i put a knight of the Holy Nimbus in and block Goyf. He can't pay for Knight and he passes.
In my turn I tried an Armageddon but he forces. 3 turns later and after 1 Sword of Plowshares from him he loses against Knight exemplar, a 5/5 Knight of the Reliquary and Kinsbaile Cavalier.
Sideboarding

-4 Knight of Meadowgrain
+ 2 Krosan Grip
+ 2 Path to Exile

I wasn't sure if he plays Natural Order so i didn't sideboarded Gaddock Teeg.

Game 2:

Started like the first game, but he was a bit faster with Noble Hierarch and he beated a bit and i didn't resolve an Aether Vial.
I started to play 4 Guys in a row every turn with manacost 3 and 4 and none got hit by Counterbalance. He forced one, he sworded one and lost against 2 Mutavaults, Knight exemplar and Knight of the Reliquary.His 2 Goyfs didn't do anything against this Power, although they were 4/5.



Against Landstill(jace thing probably)

I won the Roll

Game 1:
I start with Vial and pass. He puts land and Engineered Explosive 1. I go on with Knight of Meadowgrain vial 1 and pass. He puts land and blows the vial away. I try a Knight of the Reliquary and he forces. Attack and pass. He swords my guy, and plays a standstill. Bad for me, or not. After 6 rounds under Standstill i got 2 Mutavaults 1 Wasteland and 1 Stirring wildwood, I draw 3 cards and win some turns later.

Game 2:
He goes land pass, I try Vial it resolves, he draw and -> System: Player Lost...

Against ANT without Mystical and without Emrakul:

I win the roll:

Game 1:

I start aggro after seeing his landdrop, round 6 he surrenders he thought he would survive one more round(kinsbaile cavalier for the win), i would have lost next turn.

- 2 Wilt Leaf Liege
- 4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
- 3 Armageddon
+4 Leyline of Sanctity
+3 Gaddock Teeg
+2 Relic of Progenitus

Game 2:

Was a bit lucky, I start with 2 Leylines and he surrenders :wink:.

Well i played only against such decks and I never lost a match only some games and that's why I want to post this.
Please give me some suggesstions and critics.
Thanks
Elvish-Champion

[EssKay]

Hi together,

first of all the list:


Lands// 24

4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Plains
1 Forest
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Stirring Wildwood

Creatures// 25

4 Knight Exemplar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
3 Kinsbaile Cavalier
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege

Spells// 11

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
3 Armageddon


I'm not sure about the SB, but it could be something like this:


3 Gaddock Teeg/ Ethersworn Canonist
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Oblivion Ring/ 2 Path to Exile

[Elvish-Champion]

Does no one have some suggestions for me? Does not even one tested it already? It would be nice if someone could answer me.

[Finn]

Elvish Champion, you may like to look at a list that I worked on only through the thinking stage. I am pretty sure it functions, but I don't really know what the specific matchups would look like.

Creatures
4 Knight Examplar
3 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
2 Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Glory

Other Stuff
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
2 Life from the Loam
1 Crib Swap
1 Nameless Inversion
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mox Diamond

Lands
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Barren Moor
1 Wasteland
3 Marsh Flats
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp

I have actually been testing a similar design with a different group of creatures, so I am pretty familiar with the way it plays. The way to play the deck is to Entomb Life from the Loam (or simply cast it from your hand). And dredge. As long as Haakon is in play, the only things in the entire deck that are not available from the graveyard are Swords to Plowshares and Thoughtseize. Your cycle lands are like Ancestral Recalls that can't be countered and keep coming back. So you dredge, cycle a land to get Loam back, and dredge again. Iit is completely dependent on the graveyard. So that has to be considered, and eventually handled. I figure that eventually the Wilt Leaf Cavaliers will come out. I suspect that either more Crib Swaps, Nameless Inversions, or another Haakon are the most likely replacements.

This all comes from another site where there had been a discussion on the topic. We were all over the place, so nothing really came of it.

[Elvish-Champion]

Elvish Champion, you may like to look at a list that I worked on only through the thinking stage. I am pretty sure it functions, but I don't really know what the specific matchups would look like.

Creatures
4 Knight Examplar
3 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
2 Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Glory

Other Stuff
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
2 Life from the Loam
1 Crib Swap
1 Nameless Inversion
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mox Diamond

Lands
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Barren Moor
1 Wasteland
3 Marsh Flats
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp

I have actually been testing a similar design with a different group of creatures, so I am pretty familiar with the way it plays. The way to play the deck is to Entomb Life from the Loam (or simply cast it from your hand). And dredge. As long as Haakon is in play, the only things in the entire deck that are not available from the graveyard are Swords to Plowshares and Thoughtseize. Your cycle lands are like Ancestral Recalls that can't be countered and keep coming back. So you dredge, cycle a land to get Loam back, and dredge again. Iit is completely dependent on the graveyard. So that has to be considered, and eventually handled. I figure that eventually the Wilt Leaf Cavaliers will come out. I suspect that either more Crib Swaps, Nameless Inversions, or another Haakon are the most likely replacements.

This all comes from another site where there had been a discussion on the topic. We were all over the place, so nothing really came of it.


It's a good list, but the problem is again, that it is dependant on the graveyard, and it cannot really avoid counterbalance.
Of course, it think as well, that it will work fine if you get this engine online. But the problem is. It's dependant on many cards.
In my build it's not that dependant, I think.
But i will also try this build, response will come as fast as possible.

[Raystar]

What about Stillmoon Cavalier instead of Kinsbaile Cavalier?

[raudo]

I have considered this kind of deck too. I think you have been extremely lucky to draw Vial every game. Without Vial in opening hand this deck loses easily to control decks. I think currently Knights have not synergy enough to fight Goblins or Merfolk.. maybe even Soldiers. Knights don't have "ringleader" or "warchief" kind of cards.

But definitely this is fun to play.

[Elvish-Champion]

I have considered this kind of deck too. I think you have been extremely lucky to draw Vial every game. Without Vial in opening hand this deck loses easily to control decks. I think currently Knights have not synergy enough to fight Goblins or Merfolk.. maybe even Soldiers. Knights don't have "ringleader" or "warchief" kind of cards.

But definitely this is fun to play.

Yes, in my shown matches I always put a vial first round. But I also played against other decks without Vial, only with 3 Drop(Landstill) and he lost becauze I only played some big guys and manlands and it was enough.


@Raystar:
I already thought about this guy, but he is only sideboard playable. The Kinsbaile Cavalier is "fucking awesome", it's a surprising factor and makes your mutavaults able to trade against Tarmogoyfs. He is a very good card, all your creatures, except Stirring Wildwood are Knights and a guy for 4 Mana who improves ur other guys and can deal 4 damage in total. Stillmoon Cavalier is also depending on your metagame, there should be always many Black or White decks, and in mine there aren't. Kinsbailer Cavalier is good against control and Goyf.decs because he can deal many damage with the other guys in such a short time. And you shouldn't forget the 1 Toughness of Stillmoon cavalier, he can get nuked from nearly everything.

[lebarion]

I've built a similar list just a couple days before you started this thread. My list have a similar creature base, but with 8 Plowshares, Sylvan Library and no Vials or Geddon.
However, I haven't tested it a lot, just a few games against Zoo, and it wasn't that impressive. I'll test it more and tell you the results.
Untill then, I'd like to suggest Steward of Valeron. It is good with Armageddon, good with Wilt-Leaf Liege, and good overall.

[raudo]

I might do some testing with living wish and wishboard. Vials are absolutely must.
Maybe Stoneforge Mystic with Jitte and both Swords.

Wishboard something like:

Haakon
Kinsbaile Cavalier
Stillmoon Cavalier
Wilt-Leaf Liege
Some other protection knights
Some good lands

[Elvish-Champion]

I might do some testing with living wish and wishboard. Vials are absolutely must.
Maybe Stoneforge Mystic with Jitte and both Swords.

Wishboard something like:

Haakon
Kinsbaile Cavalier
Stillmoon Cavalier
Wilt-Leaf Liege
Some other protection knights
Some good lands

I thought about this thing, with some protection knights, but i think there are more cards worth to play instead of this guys.

[Finn]

I tried out the deck I posted over the weekend. It is gawdawful. Haakon still sucks.

/end of transmission

[legendofzadeh]

oops i just saw this... I just posted up a new thread with my current version of knights, ill delete it and put it up here...


The problem is knights just dont get big enough to be able to keep up mid to late game with only 1 lord. And they dont have the ability to swarm like gobs, soldiers, merfolk, and elves can.

After much play testing and tweaking I think I turned this apparent weakness into a strength of the knights.

By equiping every/any creature I drop with any equip I may have out its fairly easy to get opponents to use all of their removal real quick, and often prematurely (such as on a swinging jitte equiped stoneforge) This combined with the fact that almost every deck in the format trys to dump their hand ASAP (silly tempo decks) anyways, this creates the perfect environment to play a Wrath of God (and no, I have never done this with exemplar out... sigh, one day...). Chances are they are top decking, and hopefully I held a creature (if not likelihood is Ill draw one (and it doesn't even matter who)) Play said knight, equip, and begin the Beating!

Knights thrive in the top deck, between the white orchid, fetches, and 4 flagstones I thin my library of land real nicely. Stoneforge mystic as a tool box makes the knights super versatile, and thins out the equipments really well too (and she can be recycled with SoLS) I have won games top decking her after a wrath. Vial her in tutor, drop and equip the sword of vengeance swing 3, next turn equip everything else you have out already on her, namely the collar. With all this thinning normally my draw consists of first striking knights, or removal. It plays really smoothly.

Actually from play testing, it has at least a 50/50 matchup vs merfolk (I give the edge to the knights though), and this was against my friend who helped me make the deck. Im not so sure about gobs tho...

Although I have had a rough time deciding a sideboard... I would really like to fit 2-3 more swords to plowshares in the side. And possibly a few Paladin En-Vec


Deck
Creature (26)
2x Kinsbaile Cavalier
4x Knight Exemplar
4x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Sigiled Paladin
4x Skyhunter Skirmisher
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Student of Warfare

Sorcery (2)
2x Wrath of God

Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile

Artifact (11)
4x AEther Vial
3x Basilisk Collar
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Vengeance
1x Umezawa's Jitte Land (18)
4x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Karakas
4x Marsh Flats
1x Mistveil Plains
7x Plains Sideboard:
3x Brave the Elements
3x Disenchant
2x Patrician's Scorn
1x Ravenous Trap
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Wrath of God

Id really appreciate the feedback on this!

[Elvish-Champion]

oops i just saw this... I just posted up a new thread with my current version of knights, ill delete it and put it up here...


The problem is knights just dont get big enough to be able to keep up mid to late game with only 1 lord. And they dont have the ability to swarm like gobs, soldiers, merfolk, and elves can.

After much play testing and tweaking I think I turned this apparent weakness into a strength of the knights.

By equiping every/any creature I drop with any equip I may have out its fairly easy to get opponents to use all of their removal real quick, and often prematurely (such as on a swinging jitte equiped stoneforge) This combined with the fact that almost every deck in the format trys to dump their hand ASAP (silly tempo decks) anyways, this creates the perfect environment to play a Wrath of God (and no, I have never done this with exemplar out... sigh, one day...). Chances are they are top decking, and hopefully I held a creature (if not likelihood is Ill draw one (and it doesn't even matter who)) Play said knight, equip, and begin the Beating!

Knights thrive in the top deck, between the white orchid, fetches, and 4 flagstones I thin my library of land real nicely. Stoneforge mystic as a tool box makes the knights super versatile, and thins out the equipments really well too (and she can be recycled with SoLS) I have won games top decking her after a wrath. Vial her in tutor, drop and equip the sword of vengeance swing 3, next turn equip everything else you have out already on her, namely the collar. With all this thinning normally my draw consists of first striking knights, or removal. It plays really smoothly.

Actually from play testing, it has at least a 50/50 matchup vs merfolk (I give the edge to the knights though), and this was against my friend who helped me make the deck. Im not so sure about gobs tho...

Although I have had a rough time deciding a sideboard... I would really like to fit 2-3 more swords to plowshares in the side. And possibly a few Paladin En-Vec


Deck
Creature (26)
2x Kinsbaile Cavalier
4x Knight Exemplar
4x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Sigiled Paladin
4x Skyhunter Skirmisher
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Student of Warfare

Sorcery (2)
2x Wrath of God

Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile

Artifact (11)
4x AEther Vial
3x Basilisk Collar
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Vengeance
1x Umezawa's Jitte Land (18)
4x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Karakas
4x Marsh Flats
1x Mistveil Plains
7x Plains Sideboard:
3x Brave the Elements
3x Disenchant
2x Patrician's Scorn
1x Ravenous Trap
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Wrath of God

Id really appreciate the feedback on this!


It's a good idea with Wrath of God, but are you sure that it will work? I think it's a bit random, and the Control MU is really bad, because you don't have Mutavaults or Stirring Wildwood to beat, the Vial is must of course. And about the tempo-output of other decks, they are frequently fast, and the problem is if you can handle them in early, you will still lose in late, because the bomb Knight of the Reliquary is missing here!
I thought a long time about my build, and with the Knight of the Reliquary, the Armageddon is a must. It already won more than a third of all games I played, it takes his tempo out, you have bigger nuts and you win because he cannot steady his board. And in the Sideboard there are missing many anticombo things. With green you can do many Sideboard plans like I already posted. I don't have the cards I need on myself, that's why I only was able to test it via MWS or GCCG.
I will prox it soon, and will try to play it on a tournament in next time.

Thanks for your request, your idea is quite good.

[Thraximundar]

Even though not a knight mom should never be left out of a white list....

[legendofzadeh]

I just took 6th with knights @ a 43 person event...

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?8090-Top-8-Decklists/page10

GW is the way to go.

[otherside]

no elspeth makes me sad

[legendofzadeh]

no elspeth makes me sad

I ran 2! she beat eva green, shes the best vs heavy control

[nedleeds]

Does no one have some suggestions for me? Does not even one tested it already? It would be nice if someone could answer me.

Maybe 2 geddon, 1-2 less creatures and +2 sylvan library.