Squee, Goblin Nabob

[freakish777]

I was playing on MWS, and was surprised that Squee's gatherer entry doesn't have a ruling alerting players that you can't discard him in your upkeep and still get him back (and also that it hasn't come up on the Source, a pleasant surprise on the Source part, but a surprise nonetheless).

603.4 appears to be the relevant ruling here:


A triggered ability may read "When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect]." When the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it resolves. If the condition isn't true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does nothing.

[Nonex]

Squee's current wording has nothing to do with conditions, though.


At the beginning of your upkeep, you may return Squee, Goblin Nabob from your graveyard to your hand.

Anyway, I guess players are expected to understand that discarding Squee in the upkeep means discarding it after the trigger event takes place so they have to wait another turn.

[freakish777]

Squee's current wording has nothing to do with conditions, though.



Anyway, I guess players are expected to understand that discarding Squee in the upkeep means discarding it after the trigger event takes place so they have to wait another turn.

Hm, I'm accustomed to the MM printing with the if clause in there, hence why I put that ruling in. It's possible this has changed then with the new wording on Squee. I had been under the impression that cards with triggers on them such as Squee's only triggered in the zone from which they specified, to avoid having to worry about a card in a hidden zone (the hand) triggering (603.2e could be involved, but I don't see how since there's no longer a a condition that has to be met on Squee).

If it has changed, would you have to reveal Squee from your hand to your opponent at the beginning of their upkeep and say "Squee triggers in my hand, then I'll discard him to Survival" ?

[MMogg]

I think you're understanding it wrong a little (I think... hard to understand what you're trying to imply). The clause about conditions being met means, for example, if Squee were in your graveyard, and the trigger goes on the stack, if Squee is then put onto the battlefield somehow, and then the trigger resolves, it then doesn't send him to your hand. If he was never in your graveyard at the beginning of your upkeep, there will be no trigger, so it will not check for conditions. You have to meet the conditions for it to even trigger, then it will check again to make sure the conditions are still met upon resolution.

[cdr]

A few things:

The old wording and new wording of Squee are identical rules-wise. Abilities that refer to a specific zone only work from that zone [112.6i (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R1126i)].

Phase-triggered abilities trigger at the beginning of phases [603.2b (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R6032b)]. Once you have priority in that phase, it's too late - you're past the point of triggers. This is the one that applies to Squee.

Triggers can't happen in hidden zones, as you might expect [603.2e (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R6032e)]. This is why things like forecast (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R70254) are worded like they are.

If a card's ability triggers in one zone and then the card moves to another zone, it's no longer the same card. If you return Firemane Angel to play with its trigger on the stack, you don't gain a life.