[New Deck!] Seppuku - Samurai Suicide

[troopatroop]

This deck got 30th place in the recent tournament in Japan, and 30 out of 174 is impressive for a completely new deck. Check it out.


3xCaves of Koilos
3xCity of Brass
1xTarnished Citadel
1xMarsh Flats
8xSwamp
5xPlains

4xDeath's Shadow
4xLoxodon Peacekeeper
4xFlesh Reaver
4xBlood Celebrant
2xStoneforge Mystic
1xGarza's Assassin
3xUnspeakable Symbol
4xSign in Blood
2xPlunge into Darkness
3xRite of Consumption
4xInquisition of Kozilek
1xVindicate
2xOblivion Ring
1xLoxodon Warhammer
1xBasilisk Collar




3xEngineered Plague
1xWheel of Sun and Moon
1xTormod's Crypt
1xRelic of Progenitus
1xNull Rod
2xDuress
1xDefense Grid
1xSadistic Sacrament
1xSnuff Out
1xSwords to Plowshares
2xDisenchant


Wow right? It's literally dirt cheap to build, and makes 2 mana 4/4's look like nothing. I like it, personally. Apparently it can win alot of games too.

Discuss!

[sam.]

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but doesn't this deck lose to many variations of Zoo?

You put yourself at low life totals on purpose, but they also want to do that too.

I count 3 different creatures which try to kill the opponent by beating, two of which take advantage of a low life total.
Additionally there's a win con in Rite of Consumption.


To be honest I think the self-destructive life swings would make the deck incredibly difficult to play, since there'll be times where you wish you had more life to, well, survive, or had less life to take advantage of the creatures being used.

Anyways, just my opinion.

[jrsthethird]

Looks fun but LOL @ Zoo.

[elof]

Isn't Thoughtseize better than Kozilek?

EDIT: Also, isn't Snuff Out worth considering? Blood Cervant seams weak, is there any other creature possible? And also, Sword of Vengance instead of Warhammer?

[DrJones]

Blood servant seems to be the fastest way to empty your life total. Is sad to see Sign in blood in there with so many great Necropotence-like effects in legacy, and I think it lacks cards that deal damage to all players. I would also consider playing cards like Wall of Souls to slow aggro. It's an interesting take to suicide decks, but looks like it could benefit from polishing.

[Mantis]

I can't think of many cards that are more horrible in this strategy than Wall of Souls...

You should definately run 4 Thoughtseize indeed.

The problem I see with Loxodon Peacekeeper is that your opponent will eventually grab control of it right?

[rufus]

The problem I see with Loxodon Peacekeeper is that your opponent will eventually grab control of it right?

It only switches during the controller's upkeep, and this deck plausibly deals 8 or more damage per turn. You can also feed it to Rite of Consumption or Plunge into Darkness

[Infinitium]

Wouldn't a red splash be better? Loxodon Peacekeeper is cute and all, but is hardly worth being built around. Death's Shadow is more interesting, but the deck overall looks like it could use the additional reach.

[jazzykat]

It may be too slow but pestilence might be awesome in her.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Why not splash Green over White?
Goyf is a 4/5 for 2.
Also, needs moar duals and less City of Brass.

[troopatroop]

Wow everyone just fails at suggestions. Loxodon Peacekeeper is a 4/4 for 2. That's worth building around, same with Flesh Reaver. I wouldn't say that Thoughtseize is better than Inquisition, because you can cast Inquisition at low life totals where thoughtseize would be dead. The deck seems dangerous, but you have to play a deck 1,000 times to really grasp it fully. I'm sure the pilot was great.

Disapointing comments people.

[keys]

All that jank just to play Death's Shadow and Loxodon Peacekeeper? This is an atrocious version of Eva Green.

[DrJones]

I can't think of many cards that are more horrible in this strategy than Wall of Souls...This is because you haven't played the deck before commenting.

[Wakkarr]

Wow everyone just fails at suggestions. Loxodon Peacekeeper is a 4/4 for 2. That's worth building around, same with Flesh Reaver. I wouldn't say that Thoughtseize is better than Inquisition, because you can cast Inquisition at low life totals where thoughtseize would be dead. The deck seems dangerous, but you have to play a deck 1,000 times to really grasp it fully. I'm sure the pilot was great.

Disapointing comments people.

What an absurd comment.

A 4/4 for 2 is not worth building around, at least not while there is a fat green dude called Tarmogoyf. Especially one which is highly conditional and will randomly prevent you from dealing the last points of damage to kill an opponent.

You're reason for not playing Thoughtseize is silly, the exact same reason can be used to justify not playing Flesh Reaver, Sign in Blood and City of Brass. The deck plays so many mediocre cards which cost you life, so why not play one good one?

Seriously disappointing comment, unless you were channeling Cavius.

[Mystical_Jackass]

He probably jumped a few decks with the build, but honestly I don't like it. I like the sign in blood and such, but just unnecessary life loss most of the time. I played someone a while back tempting a build like this, he didn't fair well that tourney..

The fundamental problem I have is, the unnecessary damage you're taking with very little that you're achieving... besides expediting toward Death's Shadow. I mean, are you really gonna kick your own @ss just to get the lil' guy out quicker? The thing is... your opponent can do that for you, why not allow yourself that good ~10 life as a blanket and play spells that'll generate more CA and deal with board position WHILE losing the life..

for example:

- Snuff
- Pox
- Small Pox
- Contract from Below
- Arena
- fetchlands (instead of painlands, which provide you no benefit)
- Tombstalker (to work off gy, sign's, poxes, fetchlands..)

The shadow is great, but again it's a big creature with no evasion. I think it would be an amazing goyf blocker... say you're down to 5 life, opponent is at 10. You really need something like Tombstalker or something unblockable that's gonna get through damage. The unspeakable symbol is really bad, I would take that out also. Just so many better options in that slot, definitely rather 3x Snuff Out in that spot for board removal so your guys can get through.

[imanujakku]

the power of this deck was probably in his opponents having no clue what he was up to and some luck.

ive played against a death shadow deck with shocklands, thoughtseize, snuff out, bob, top, ad naeseum,vindicate, angelic grace and rite and it seemed semi decent mainly because of the power level of the cards was high except for the death shadow/rite combo.

Death's shadow does deserve a good deck so i hope people keep working on this.

[troopatroop]

What an absurd comment.

A 4/4 for 2 is not worth building around, at least not while there is a fat green dude called Tarmogoyf. Especially one which is highly conditional and will randomly prevent you from dealing the last points of damage to kill an opponent.

You're reason for not playing Thoughtseize is silly, the exact same reason can be used to justify not playing Flesh Reaver, Sign in Blood and City of Brass. The deck plays so many mediocre cards which cost you life, so why not play one good one?

Seriously disappointing comment, unless you were channeling Cavius.

K mister 8 posts, lets go. That post was in response to some1 saying that white wasn't worth it. White is in the deck for 9 MD cards, along with SB options. those cards are 4 Loxodon Peacekeeper, 2 Oblivion Ring, 1 Vindicate, and 2 Stoneforge Mystic. I was pointing out that a 4/4 for 2 is in fact very good. Yes Tarmogoyf exists, and when you compare the Loxodon to him, Goyf comes out on top. News flash, Tarmogoyf is better than every creature in the game CC to PT, so that's an unfair comparison. Loxodon is always a 4/4, something Tarmogoyf cannot say, and he fits like a glove into this deck (completely original/new). What I was saying, was that he is worth the 4 slots in the deck, and the playing of white. What white also provides the deck is an Equipment tutor in SFM. This is a critical role, note both Basilisk Collar and Warhammer having Lifelink. Seems important. Playing Thoughtseize is probably good, but I just wanted to call attention to how often this deck is almost killing itself the turn before it's about to win the game. Inquisition can always be casted in those situations, and Thoughtseize really can't. I think there are enough lifeloss outlets in the deck already, where the -2 from Thoughtseize is usually not important. Flesh Reaver can carry a lifelink equipment and not kill you, Sign in Blood can be casted on the opponent, and City of Brass can not be tapped. Thoughtseize is always going to Shock you, and being that this deck almost kills itself on purpose every game, there will eventually/often be times where you need to cast your discard spell at low life totals. This isn't baseless, I've thought about it a decent amount.

also, 1 Tarmogoyf costs $60+ and 1 Loxodon Peacekeeper costs 5cents. That's a reason.


the power of this deck was probably in his opponents having no clue what he was up to and some luck.

ive played against a death shadow deck with shocklands, thoughtseize, snuff out, bob, top, ad naeseum,vindicate, angelic grace and rite and it seemed semi decent mainly because of the power level of the cards was high except for the death shadow/rite combo.

Death's shadow does deserve a good deck so i hope people keep working on this.

There are such things are Rogue decks you know...

[Wakkarr]

Loxodon Peacekeeper is a 4/4 for 2. That's worth building around, same with Flesh Reaver.

I wasn't criticizing the choice of White over Green, I think the deck could/should support both given the willingness to play a high number of fetches/City of Brass. I was pointing out how absurd your comment was, criticizing people for giving honest appraisal of the deck and for making suggestions like 'play goyf' and 'thoughtseize is better than inquisition when you are trying to lose life'. I don't need to post another 1500 times to know that good cards are good.

How is Tarmogoyf an unfair comparison? It is a 2 cmc creature which is far better than the 2 cmc creatures this deck is playing.

Tarmogoyf is always under your control without you having to kill yourself, which is something Loxodon Peacekeeper cannot say.

Why do you need to cast Inquisition if you are "about to win the game", surely the point of playing one mana discard spells is to cast them early game for hand disruption. While casting them to ensure that your Rite of Consumption doesn't get countered is useful, it certainly doesn't seem like it is worth playing a card which is almost strictly worse for a very specific situation. i.e. Late game when you are on 2 or less life, or 4-5 Vs a deck playing Burn.

Surely the same argument for not tapping City of Brass applied to Thoughtseize. Just as you can not tap City of Brass for mana when you don't need it/can afford the life, you can choose to not cast Thoughtseize if the risk is too high. I am sure you have thought about it quite a bit, but that means almost nothing, as I have no confidence in your judgment.

The price of the cards shouldn't come into any argument when discussing the best card choices for a particular strategy. It is fine to justify making certain choice for your own decks, but it isnt reasonable to say 'X is the correct choice for this deck because it is less expensive than Y'.

[Pastorofmuppets]

The guy was probably on a budget. There's really no reason to not run the full 4 Vindicates.
Also, being the dickbutt I am, I demand a blue splash for Shelldock Isle and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
Also, Duress hits Force, and Inquisition doesn't. Perhaps we should look to Hollywood's recent 3rd-place with The Gate for ideas, Troopa?
Also, the list has a lot of holes in it. Here's an idea:


4 Marsh Flats
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Scrubland
2 Godless Shrine
3 Plains
3 Swamp

2 Flesh Reaver
4 Loxodon Peacekeeper
2 Death's Shadow
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Dark Confidant

3 Death Wish
4 Dark Ritual
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Basilisk Collar
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
1 Syphon Life
1 Raven's Crime
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Path to Exile

Sideboard:
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Engineered Plague
1 Damnation
1 Rite of Consumption
1 Infernal Contract
1 Cenn's Enlistment
1 Angel's Grace
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Profane Command
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir

Bad list, yeah, but at least it isn't packed tighter than gay ass with 1-ofs.
Also, you may want to consider Chrome Mox to drop 4/4s on your first turn.

[Kangaxx]

This deck got 30th place in the recent tournament in Japan, and 30 out of 174 is impressive for a completely new deck. Check it out.


3xCaves of Koilos
3xCity of Brass
1xTarnished Citadel
1xMarsh Flats
8xSwamp
5xPlains

4xDeath's Shadow
4xLoxodon Peacekeeper
4xFlesh Reaver
4xBlood Celebrant
2xStoneforge Mystic
1xGarza's Assassin
3xUnspeakable Symbol
4xSign in Blood
2xPlunge into Darkness
3xRite of Consumption
4xInquisition of Kozilek
1xVindicate
2xOblivion Ring
1xLoxodon Warhammer
1xBasilisk Collar




3xEngineered Plague
1xWheel of Sun and Moon
1xTormod's Crypt
1xRelic of Progenitus
1xNull Rod
2xDuress
1xDefense Grid
1xSadistic Sacrament
1xSnuff Out
1xSwords to Plowshares
2xDisenchant


Wow right? It's literally dirt cheap to build, and makes 2 mana 4/4's look like nothing. I like it, personally. Apparently it can win alot of games too.

Discuss!

I've tested a similiar deck and Death's Shadow can be a beating. My build runs Snuff Out and Vendetta, which is amazing at getting rid of Knights of the Reliquary and such. Vendetta was always the star of the deck, and I ran Jitte since the deck can get pretty low on life at times.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Also, if you're really not afraid of losing a crap ton of life, I have a crappy 25 cent rare from a crappy set for you.

Murderous Betrayal

[Grollub]

Death's Shadow alongside Plunge and Rites is dead sexy, that kind of reach in Sui-black is something completely new...

In my friday night magic madness club we're testing a mono black version that's less focused on self mutilation and the life aspect but packs alot more disruption and draw (10 card drawers + a ton of 1-1 trades is good when you can easily take you opponent out as soon as they are at 12). Leyline of the Void with a few Helm of Obedience have been working tremendously well for us in this deck. Too early to say anything about the viability but it certain is a blast, the ability to shift between combo, aggro (and sui-aggro at that!) and control multiple times per game is just straight up hilarious.

FNMM proudly presents, Go Ninja Go!
... or "how real men play suicide with 61 cards".

Creatures - 15
4 Death's Shadow
4 Dark Confidant
4 Flesh Reaver
3 Lurking Evil / Phlyylylyllylylyl Lich (-4 swamps, -2 Whispers, +2 Top, +4 artifact swamps in that version and some swamps for fetchies)

Draw/Search - 8
4 Sign in Blood
2 Night's Whisper
2 Plunge

Disruption - 11
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Leyline of the Void

Lulwut? - 4
2 Rite of Consumption
2 Helm of Obedience

Removal - 3
3 Snuff Out

Speed - 4
4 Chrome Mox

Lands - 16
3 Tomb of Urami
13 Swamps

............

It's mostly a deck for laughs, but it can be quite brutal. Mostly just to illustrate a mono-colored version of the same philosophy.

[Pastorofmuppets]

this crap.
You know, it might be difficult to drop Rites of Flourishing in a mono-black deck.

[Grollub]

snide remark trying to be funny
Yes, especially considering it's not in the deck.

[SpikeyMikey]

K mister 8 posts, lets go. That post was in response to some1 saying that white wasn't worth it. White is in the deck for 9 MD cards, along with SB options. those cards are 4 Loxodon Peacekeeper, 2 Oblivion Ring, 1 Vindicate, and 2 Stoneforge Mystic. I was pointing out that a 4/4 for 2 is in fact very good. Yes Tarmogoyf exists, and when you compare the Loxodon to him, Goyf comes out on top. News flash, Tarmogoyf is better than every creature in the game CC to PT, so that's an unfair comparison. Loxodon is always a 4/4, something Tarmogoyf cannot say, and he fits like a glove into this deck (completely original/new). What I was saying, was that he is worth the 4 slots in the deck, and the playing of white. What white also provides the deck is an Equipment tutor in SFM. This is a critical role, note both Basilisk Collar and Warhammer having Lifelink. Seems important. Playing Thoughtseize is probably good, but I just wanted to call attention to how often this deck is almost killing itself the turn before it's about to win the game. Inquisition can always be casted in those situations, and Thoughtseize really can't. I think there are enough lifeloss outlets in the deck already, where the -2 from Thoughtseize is usually not important. Flesh Reaver can carry a lifelink equipment and not kill you, Sign in Blood can be casted on the opponent, and City of Brass can not be tapped. Thoughtseize is always going to Shock you, and being that this deck almost kills itself on purpose every game, there will eventually/often be times where you need to cast your discard spell at low life totals. This isn't baseless, I've thought about it a decent amount.

also, 1 Tarmogoyf costs $60+ and 1 Loxodon Peacekeeper costs 5cents. That's a reason.



There are such things are Rogue decks you know...

What does post count have to do with anything? His point is valid. Yes, this deck has a good engine for abusing it's creatures. But Loxodon is worse than Goyf and Shadow is worse than PD. And Inquisition is worse than FoW. That means the creatures aren't worth abusing. So play Dreadstill over this and if your budget is an issue, post it in Budget.

[troopatroop]

What does post count have to do with anything? His point is valid. Yes, this deck has a good engine for abusing it's creatures. But Loxodon is worse than Goyf and Shadow is worse than PD. And Inquisition is worse than FoW. That means the creatures aren't worth abusing. So play Dreadstill over this and if your budget is an issue, post it in Budget.

Let me reiterate, this isn't my deck. Nor is it my idea. I simply saw it and said, "Wow! That's original! and it won games too! lets show people."

And that's it. The deck DOES cost 20$, and it is better than most people are giving it credit for, but I'm not standing behind it.

[SpikeyMikey]

Let me reiterate, this isn't my deck. Nor is it my idea. I simply saw it and said, "Wow! That's original! and it won games too! lets show people."

And that's it. The deck DOES cost 20$, and it is better than most people are giving it credit for, but I'm not standing behind it.

I read the original post about where you pulled it from. It could still go in budget. It doesn't have to, if you think the deck has merit on it's own, this is a fine place for it, but if the discussion is centered around affordibility then this not the right subforum. At this point, it's a moot point.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Yes, especially considering it's not in the deck.

no, you posted that instead of Rite of Consumption, so I thought I'd make a funny.
Also, the fact of the matter is the IoK is bad. Duress hits more of the stuff you're trying to stop. Or just got word-balls up and play Thoughtseize like a normal person.

[Grollub]

snip... Shadow is worse than PD. And Inquisition is worse than FoW. That means the creatures aren't worth abusing. So play Dreadstill over this ...snip

Shadow functions in no way for form as Dreadnought in this deck. Rather consider it a weenie that always has a Hatred hanging active over his head. The dreadstill remark is, rather wierd as the two decks shares practical nothing in common.

@Pastorofmuppets: The cards tag decided "Rites" meant Rites of Flourishment instead of Rite of Consumption. ^^

[Pastorofmuppets]

I still think splashing green for Goyf, Grip and Pridemage would make your day.

[Malloot]

What i have noticed in testing this monster abit is that people tend to make allot of bad plays against this, its hard to think your losing when your opponent puts himself or 4-8 life by t3. People just think they have already won and start slacking instead of thinking. And then it goes kablamm rite's in your face... maybe not a t2 deck but damn its fun to play.

A few things i noted:
Plunge into darkness is a must in the deck, an instant way to get allot of life and save your ass from 2xbolt or a big flyer
Turn 1: Dark Ritual, Blood Celebrant 1 black pay 1 life make 1 black rinse repeat until 8 life into 2x 5/5 Death's Shadow

The list the Japanese guy played with may look janky but its much better thought out than you might think becuase it has allot of ways to control your life total to the point where it becomes a crazy sado balancing act.

The real power of playing a deck like this is that people have no clue what your plan is and don't make the right reactions to what you are doing half of the time.
another list that did its surprise work in a 14 man tourney
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33992
including good name

[Filth]

Just curious: Would it be possible to play Death Wish in this deck? It does seem a bit slow, but it's still a Wish that can grab anything, it doesn't reveal the card, and the drawback isn't really even a drawback in this deck. Good Wish targets would include Soul Spike and a Rite for finishers, Snuff Out and/or other cheap or free removal spells, Unmask/Thoughtseize, and of course all the actual sideboard cards you want to play. If you're in white, something like Shining Shoal might also be good.

I'm not qualified to say whether or not Wish is better than, say, the Infernal Contracts in that deckcheck.net list. The idea of Death Wish potentially being playable in a deck just intrigues me.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I've been saying Death Wish for some time now.

[Filth]

Huh. Sorry about that, I somehow managed to not see posts 17 to 20 in this thread at all. And here I thought I had found something almost worth posting about. :/

I'd still like to see either Soul Spike or Shining Shoal in that wishboard. Both look like excellent cards against Zoo's burn spells, and can let you pull a win out of nowhere.

[Bluemagex2517]

What about carnophage and Vampire Lacerator? I know they are outclassed by Nacatl, but zoo seems rather unwinnable to start with.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Huh. Sorry about that, I somehow managed to not see posts 17 to 20 in this thread at all. And here I thought I had found something almost worth posting about. :/

I'd still like to see either Soul Spike or Shining Shoal in that wishboard. Both look like excellent cards against Zoo's burn spells, and can let you pull a win out of nowhere.

I'd say Jitte and Profane Command both deserve slots.

[Grollub]

What about carnophage and Vampire Lacerator? I know they are outclassed by Nacatl, but zoo seems rather unwinnable to start with.

They do too little for the manacost.

[thefreakaccident]

IDK why people are hating on inquisition of koz, the card does hit ~90 percent of the format (maybe more)... Who cares if you can't hit FoW, just let them hymm to tourach themselves later.

About the deck, wouldn't you want some power plays to go along with the lifeloss theme? Cards like cruel bargain and pox come to mind... Snuff out and vendetta should definitely be in consideration (not running them together, but one of them should be in the list).

I actually think you should focus on cards that have immediate life loss profit as opposed to things that work well over time (confidant/arena/whatev), as you can actually control the amount of lifeloss and not put yourself on a clock (ive seen so many games where a player will just aim their burn at your head and watch you die to your own confidant... but in this deck that could happen without them even playing burn).

Just leave yourself options in game, and play more powerful effects.

I would honestly love to see an opener of rit -> bargain, second turn snuffout/2 death's shadow, that would be awesome.