Cards you initially underrated

[dontbiteitholmes]

I'm a big fan of the cards you initially overrated thread, here's the inverse which I find even more interesting. Cards you initially underrated. We are all guilty of this, I'll start.

Dark Confidant- I knew he was good, don't get me wrong, but I never would have guessed he'd see as much play as he did. I thought he would mostly be confined to mostly black aggro decks.

Noble Hierarch- I knew he was better than Birds, but I never thought he would go in legacy decks.

Jace 2.0- Didn't realize how strong he was for whatever reason. Mostly because I don't often play creature reliant decks I assume.

[Grollub]

Cursed Scroll - "it's random, omgzlawl and only 2 damage for 3 mana!", then my non-scroll sligh played against a scroll version...

Whispers of the Muse - initial thought was "how viable can 6 mana for one card be?!" then my brother urged me to try it in Humility.dec during block season, and the conclusion was very viable.

Winter Orb - which is kinda ironic as I mega overrated Stasis when I started playing...

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Tarmogoyf.

[Rune]

Knight of the Reliquary - Didn't think it was that good, but I still bought a playset when they were about $3.5 each. Then I traded 4 of them for Misty Rainforest + Haunting Echoes. (Moneywise, this was about fair when Zen just came out, but today I'm repeatedly banging my head against a desk for having done this.)

Jace 2.0 - I was pretty convinced this guy was just fodder for Standard, so when I won a copy of him, I immediately sold it for $35. :<

Bloodghast - Thought he would either just suck in the decks that would use him, or the decks that played him would suck themselves. Turns out I was almost right since there is really only one good deck that plays him and can fully abuse him: Vintage Dredge.

[lordofthepit]

Path to Exile

[Offler]

Whispers of the Muse - definitely I underrated it for the first time. Later i found out how to combo it - with infinite mana of course :)

Daring apprentice - generally underrated card. It took me months to understand its possibilities.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Knight of the Reliquary - Didn't think it was that good, but I still bought a playset when they were about $3.5 each. Then I traded 4 of them for Misty Rainforest + Haunting Echoes. (Moneywise, this was about fair when Zen just came out, but today I'm repeatedly banging my head against a desk for having done this.)
I traded mine and a DoJ online for 3 Mutavaults that I never got about a month after Zendikar came out.
I underrated Channel-Emrakul in Vintage Elf Clamp. Neither is a dead card on its own, and Summoner's Pact grabs Emrakul for you. So many people ragequit when I pull it off.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I traded mine and a DoJ online for 3 Mutavaults that I never got about a month after Zendikar came out.
I underrated Channel-Emrakul in Vintage Elf Clamp. Neither is a dead card on its own, and Summoner's Pact grabs Emrakul for you. So many people ragequit when I pull it off.

Wait, Summoner's Pact gets Emrakul?

Also agree with Knight of Reliquary, the first time I actually saw him in action I instantly knew I had been a fool to underrate him.

I didn't, but I think a lot of people should be confessing they underrated Stifle initially.

[morgan_coke]

Summoner's Pact

Pretty sure people quit if you pulled that off, but it wasn't due to rage, it was due to being unwilling to play cheatorz who don't know the rules. Pact says "green creature".

[dschalter]

I traded mine and a DoJ online for 3 Mutavaults that I never got about a month after Zendikar came out.
I underrated Channel-Emrakul in Vintage Elf Clamp. Neither is a dead card on its own, and Summoner's Pact grabs Emrakul for you. So many people ragequit when I pull it off.

Oops.

[(nameless one)]

Tarmogoyf.

This

I remember when they were only $5. Those were the days.

[MMogg]

Spell Pierce

[Sureshot]

Memory Jar - flew under my radar when the spoiler came out until all hell broke loose. like how people were ignorant about Necropotence and Oath of Druids back then

[Skeggi]

Elspeth. While at first only considered to be 'okay' and 'probably good in Stax', she turned out to be one of the best win conditions in the format.

[Yochanan]

Fact or Fiction for sure. I thought its mana cost was too much, especially compared to tutors at the time. I only really played combo in those days, however.

[Hanni]

Loxodon Banhammer. Totally underrated it.

[menace13]

Ok pastorofmuppets, I got a warning and my post deleted. So you're once again free to go about making things up again. Dont worry about being called out on it though, apparently thats against the rules. So have it old boy, carte blanche, put magic fanatic to shame. Its cool, everyones doing it, and best of all its mod/admin approved.


It isn't that spreading misinformation is approved, but anyone is free to say anything. It is up to the person to see if others are lying. Anyone can see it was a made up post. I am not going to go in to the reasons why people would make up lies, just that they do and always will. Your Parents have lied, you have lied and if your dog could speak it would lie too.

Mostly was the way you went about doing it-hostile-, not that you should be lightly treading around falsehoods and their proprietor's feelings, rather this one was plainly bad and most people would just ignore it. Taking furhter posts with a context of past history for veracity.

I agree on calling out bad info, but this one was harmless and was more of an attention seeking lie. It is pretty humiliating to be exposed and i am sure the offender has been digitaly slain by you, at least for some time, definitly on this thread and possibly on most others. Going "liar liar" or in your case "talking shit out your ass" wasn't really necessary. Even though i did think it was hella funny and like your posts.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I apologize for derailing the thread on the inability to RTFC. Also, people didn't call me on it, they just left. Especially since all someone needed to do was say "it says a green creature," then I'd put it back and tutor up another Nettle Sentinel or something less fun like that. I'll have to check my shit a little closer next time. Calling an idiot a liar may not be far from the truth, but it is still a rash presumption.

Back in on-topic land, I was under the assumption that Mindsculptor had the same mana cost as NO and didn't have the, "Progenitus out of fucking nowhere," factor about it. Which is odd because one of my common criteria for a good card is, "pitches to Force"
Oh, and Library of Alexandria. I'm sure we've all gone though the stage where we'd rather be playing Tundra Wolves or Raging Goblin or whatever on the first turn than getting free CA.

[Skeggi]

If we go back that far, I suppose we all underrated Lion's Eye Diamond, Phyrexian Dreadnought and Flash. Amazing how broken Mirage now is, but at the time, these were very unimpressive cards (in those days, the most expensive card from that set was Grinning Totem).

[Cthuloo]

If we go back that far, I suppose we all underrated Lion's Eye Diamond, Phyrexian Dreadnought and Flash. Amazing how broken Mirage now is, but at the time, these were very unimpressive cards (in those days, the most expensive card from that set was Grinning Totem).

I remember hating that set. It came after Alliances that was a blast and left you with the impression that WotC was mocking you: unplayable lotus, unplayable mirror universe (the blue sorcery that exchanged life totals only if the difference was 5 or less), the unplayable biggest creature of all time, and, oh, wait, why are they printing there tutors that are clearly worse than demonic tutor and consultation?

Maybe the most underrated set as a whole.

[dahcmai]

I admit it, I read Goyf and saw "Lurgoyf" and thought "Well, that's probably crap". Then I read it partway down and decided that was entirely too much text. When I finally did read it all I thought "This still sucks, the biggest it will ever get most of the time is a 3/4". It won't even be bigger than the old one most of the time. Man, did I regret that. I felt like a fool when one was first played on me and I realized "wow, that thing is big quick".

[(nameless one)]

I admit it, I read Goyf and saw "Lurgoyf" and thought "Well, that's probably crap". Then I read it partway down and decided that was entirely too much text. When I finally did read it all I thought "This still sucks, the biggest it will ever get most of the time is a 3/4". It won't even be bigger than the old one most of the time. Man, did I regret that. I felt like a fool when one was first played on me and I realized "wow, that thing is big quick".

This too, again.

I admit, the first time I saw Tarmogoyf, I was like "its a rare? Werebear is better than this card". I was wrong :(

[Piceli89]

Fetchlands, obviously when I was a Magic scrub and thought "What the fuck? 15 dollars to lose a life and search another land? Lame".

[Infinitium]

Progenitus. Who'd thought it'd singlehandidly tow Natural Order out of the cute bracket?

[menace13]

If we go back that far, I suppose we all underrated Lion's Eye Diamond, Phyrexian Dreadnought and Flash. Amazing how broken Mirage now is, but at the time, these were very unimpressive cards (in those days, the most expensive card from that set was Grinning Totem).

Hammer of Bogardan was a good card then too.
Hah! I remember getting LEDS and Noughts thinking to myself "wow these cards suck worst set ever". And today, well Flash,M.Tutor are banned/rest and LED is probably getting banned sometime too. Just because TomL beats up on kids with Burn and Elf decks.
Wildfire Emissary and Spirit of the Night were my fav cards from that set. Me--> flavor noob.


I remember hating that set. It came after Alliances that was a blast and left you with the impression that WotC was mocking you: unplayable lotus, unplayable mirror universe (the blue sorcery that exchanged life totals only if the difference was 5 or less), the unplayable biggest creature of all time, and, oh, wait, why are they printing there tutors that are clearly worse than demonic tutor and consultation?

Maybe the most underrated set as a whole.

Yes it possibly is the most underrated.The scene went from Balduvian Horde(loved the red Juzam) over to 6cc dragons that were not as powerful, although i liked Hellkite. Back then i hated expansions since 3rd and 4th were all very good core sets.

[Eddy Wally]

Are we discussing cards which we underestimated for the legacy metagame, or cards we underestimated in general here?

If it's the latter: does anybody remember Abeyance? Back then under the rules of the day it also prevented you from tapping lands for mana. I thought it sucked, until I was on the receiving end of it. Before they changed the rules on account of that cards, it rocked hard.

[Skeggi]

If it's the latter: does anybody remember Abeyance? Back then under the rules of the day it also prevented you from tapping lands for mana. I thought it sucked, until I was on the receiving end of it. Before they changed the rules on account of that cards, it rocked hard.
I remember Abeyance but I don't remember it restricting tapping for mana. As far as I remember you couldn't counter or prevent mana sources from being used in any way. Back then, you couldn't counter Dark Ritual because it was a mana source.

[Eddy Wally]

Abeyance didn't counter anything. It prevented activated abilities from being played. Until they changed the rules to say that this didn't include mana abilities (this exception wasn't necessary before because Abeyance was the very first card that messed with activated abilities), you could lock your opponent out of his turn. It was like a kickered Orim's Chant, which didn't stop attacks, but in exchange it stopped EVERY activated ability the opponent played, and drew you a card.

[Mark Sun]

I first started playing around the end of Urza Block / beginning of Mercadian Masques.

I remember playing casual with some friends, and they played a Rishadan Port. At the time, I was like, "wtf, this card sucks, you have to use 2 lands to tap one." /slaps self


...much better now :smile:

[Fuzzy]

Yawgmoth's Will. For real.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Goblin Piledriver. When Onslaught first came out I read the card and thought how worthless it was. Who the hell wants to play Goblins. I was a standard player at the time and dismissed it like no other.

Umezawa's Jitte. Originally I thought it was no problem because I was playing control shit with few creatures. Then after having my ass handed to me since it turned every creature they draw into a disgustingly fast clock, I changed my tune in no time at all.

On the topic of Jace, I still don't think its good, but maybe thats because the decks I play just murder Landstill and Thresh. I have played against it numerous times and I have only dropped 1 tournament game to it, but those were strange circumstances. I still feel that shit is highly overrated.

[Forbiddian]

Life from the Loam. I don't even have the excuse of, "It was just printed and people hadn't figured it out." I came back to Legacy when it had been a staple for a while but didn't see it as being very great.

Also, I underrated Nacatl and Qasali Pridemage together defining a new archetype. I noticed it was a cool interaction where Green/White/Red had enough playables, but I never dreamed Zoo would supersede Goblins as the aggro deck to beat.

[bleuisforwhimps]

I sold a goyf back in the day for 3$ .

[Iare]

I sold a goyf back in the day for 3$ .

Then you sir have won this thread . I under rated gatekeeper of malikar myself, I mean it is a three cost sorcery speed chainers edict + grizzly bear but awesome at the same time.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I thought Pithing Needle would rarely be worth the card. I also have tended to undervalue Planeswalkers generally, especially new Jace, although I don't think the latter is quite as good as people think; which is to say he's in the group of death for control decks; there's a ridiculous number of amazing 4cc control cards in Legacy, but one obviously can only fit in a limited number of them, and I don't think he's the auto-include for that slot he's being treated as. But he's still way better than I thought he would be. In particular because Fateseal is more useful than I gave it credit for.

On the other hand, I got Jitte, Goyf and Confidant all right out of the bat.


Loxodon Banhammer. Totally underrated it.

I played this at my first (and only) Pro Tour, back when Jitte was still running around Standard. I made some terrible deckbuilding decisions, but I was insanely pleased with Warhammer the entire day. I won one game because the guy was so disgusted to be playing against the card at a constructed Pro Tour that he wasted his Putrefies on all my creatures, including a Wood Elf and a Saproling token, rather than destroying it.

[JeroenC]

Abeyance didn't counter anything. It prevented activated abilities from being played. Until they changed the rules to say that this didn't include mana abilities (this exception wasn't necessary before because Abeyance was the very first card that messed with activated abilities), you could lock your opponent out of his turn. It was like a kickered Orim's Chant, which didn't stop attacks, but in exchange it stopped EVERY activated ability the opponent played, and drew you a card.

Actually, they could still drop Enchantments, Artifacts and Creatures, and attack. So it's really nothing like a kickerd Chant, is it now?

[Eddy Wally]

Actually, they could still drop Enchantments, Artifacts and Creatures, and attack. So it's really nothing like a kickerd Chant, is it now?

Not during the period when Abeyance prevented them to tap lands for mana. How are you going to cast spells without mana? :)

[elof]

Not without tapping mana...

EDIT: damn, slow as a slug.

I never understood why Call of the Herd was such a valued card. I mean, they are only 3/3s?

Also, Static Orb and Opposition. Never did see the synergi until my opponent played both at one point. Damn it.

[NiRVeS]

Rishadan Port - I opened this in the first ever product I got (MM tournament pack) and felt thoroughly screwed. Sold it for less than 3 bucks and regretted it horribly just a few months later, when it was the most expensive card of the set.

Goyf - I was playing a Mana-accel / Terravore / Blastoderm / Armageddon deck at the time this thing came out, and I seriously contemplated about switching my werebears for Goyfs. But when I saw they were about $5, I was like "screw this, I'll wait until the new set hype is over and these will be dollar-rares". Boy, was I wrong about that one...

Bridge from below - I never thought that card would be usable to anyone, even though I was aware of friggorid being a deck for vintage at the time.

I'm quite happy with the way in which I evaluate cards most of the time though.

Grtz

[morgan_coke]

I never understood why Call of the Herd was such a valued card. I mean, they are only 3/3s?


Because there was a time when a 3/3 for three was on or above curve, especially if it came with a second monster for only four.

[Eddy Wally]

Call of the Herd was great because it fixed your manacurve very well. It was a threedrop and a fourdrop, and it only cost you one card.

[ummon]

Magma Jet - When I built my burn deck, I thought 2 damage for 2cc was not worth the scry 2. I sure found out how wrong I was.

[Atwa]

Fetchlands, obviously when I was a Magic scrub and thought "What the fuck? 15 dollars to lose a life and search another land? Lame".

Been there too :)

Opened a couple of Onslaught boosters and had a foil Delta and a Foothills, traded them away for Elvish Champion, a Bad River and a Voice of the Woods, since no way I'm going to pay life for that effect when I had playsets of the mirage fetches. I thought I had a great deal at the time too, getting rid of some craprares....

[NiRVeS]

Because there was a time when a 3/3 for three was on or above curve, especially if it came with a second monster for only four.

Yeah, this was about the same time Noble Panther was considered a chase rare when the set was still fresh. I wonder how many people even know that card these days....

Grtz

[(nameless one)]

Been there too :)

Opened a couple of Onslaught boosters and had a foil Delta and a Foothills, traded them away for Elvish Champion, a Bad River and a Voice of the Woods, since no way I'm going to pay life for that effect when I had playsets of the mirage fetches. I thought I had a great deal at the time too, getting rid of some craprares....

LOL thats hilarious because I did the same thing... Delta for an Elvish Champion!

What about anything with Engineered Explosives? I remember seeing that card in the dollar bins.

[Bardo]

I thought Pithing Needle would rarely be worth the card.

Oh, remember that thread on TMD? Not exactly good times.


What about anything with Engineered Explosives? I remember seeing that card in the dollar bins.

I was hot for that card ever since it was spoiled in 5th dawn. In fact, the first thread I started on TMD (in 2004) was a SCD for Engineered Explosives. Still love that card.

Some cards I undervalued (in Legacy):

Sensei's Divining Top
Qasali Pridemage
Knight of the Reliquary

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Oh, remember that thread on TMD? Not exactly good times.

No? Was it as bad as the Hunted Horror thread? That one was a nightmare. At least I was able to trade someone my Hunted Horror for a WoG at the prerelease.

[Aleksandr]

Yeah: SDT, Explosives...
There is still an Engineered Explosives slot in the binder in our shop with pricemark about 2 USD... I'd buy three hundred of them.

I underrated Jace, TMS, not that I haven't seen that it is powerful, but I couldn't believe it would be that expensive.
That, and Knight of the R. And it's a pity, I really love big creatures, but now I am short of the most powerful ones (KotR, Terravore...). Nvm, I hope they fall down after rotation.

[Justin]

Stoneforge Mystic is a card that is a lot better than I initially thought it would be. At first, I thought it would only see play in Death & Taxes, but people are splashing white in a great variety of decks (including Counter Top) to fit in in. With the banning of Mystical Tutor (possibly a decline in combo decks) and the upcoming Scars of Mirodin set (which could give us some more broken equipment), Stoneforge Mystic might become one of the best creatures in the format by year's end.

[Nessaja]

Aether Vial - I did not expect its effect to be as great as it is. Even though it only really supports 4 decks, it's just such a strong card.

[Justin]

A recent example of a card that I underrated is Vengevine. I cracked one when Rise of the Eldrazi first came out and traded it, valuing the card at $30. Now it is $40 and will possibly climb some more. It's already a very important card in Standard, but it even seems good in Legacy. Caleb Durwald posted an outstanding day one in Columbus with a Survival Madness deck featuring Vengevine.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Yeah: SDT, Explosives...
There is still an Engineered Explosives slot in the binder in our shop with pricemark about 2 USD... I'd buy three hundred of them.

I underrated Jace, TMS, not that I haven't seen that it is powerful, but I couldn't believe it would be that expensive.
That, and Knight of the R. And it's a pity, I really love big creatures, but now I am short of the most powerful ones (KotR, Terravore...). Nvm, I hope they fall down after rotation.

I got my Terravores when they were like $4 a piece. I wanted to build a Terrageddon deck.
This isn't really Legacy-related, but I thought Gideon Jura was going to be a $5 crap Mythic like Ablaze.

[Nelis]

Mox Pearl. Nobody in his right mind would play white!

I got screwed on that one. I knew a bit about rarity but not much back in the day. None of my cousins wanted to have it so I went to a local games store to ask if anyone was interested. So when somebody offered me 50 guilders I wanted to sell it immediately. But luckily some guy told me it was worth more and he didn't mind trading it with me. Guess what? I should have gone for the 50 guilders. I got a shitload of commons and a loss of fate in the human race. To make matters worse that bastard also got my 2 Birds of Paradise, took me 10 years before I was able to get new ones.

[dahcmai]

I found out at Grand Prix Columbus that Drop of Honey is one hell of a good card to play in Deedstill to board in against Goblins, Merfolk, and Zoo. It was just dominating. I saw entirely too much of 1st turn Steppe Lynx. I play Drop. They stare at card and say go. I make them sac the Lynx. They stare at card again and say go. Woot, double fog+edict for G = Good card. I think I was the only one with that little techy thing going on. Last minute addition.

I'd say I've underrated that card for ages.

[Peter_Rotten]

I initially underrrated Bryant Cook. I thought he was just in high school; however, it seems he can top 8 GPs.

[Bryant Cook]

I initially underrrated Bryant Cook. I thought he was just in high school; however, it seems he can top 8 GPs. <3

[Zlatzman]

Drop of Honey

That doesn't work. Drop of Honey is sacrificed when there are no creatures on the battlefield, it checks continuously not just at the beginning of your upkeep.


At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy the creature with the least power. It can't be regenerated. If two or more creatures are tied for least power, you choose one of them.
When there are no creatures on the battlefield, sacrifice Drop of Honey.


Personally I only slightly underrated Tarmogoyf. The [SCD]-thread here (or was it the Threshold thread?) managed to convince me it was good, so I preordered some.


As for underratings, I initially underrated the whole Storm-mechanic, not realizing the impact it would have on combo.

[Kove]

I know it's kind of a weird card to most of you but while playing Berserk Stompy I really had no high expectations for Seal of Strength because of its slow speed, quite small effect and .. Being there in plain sight for my opponent to react to.

But, it turned out to be one of my favourite cards in the entire deck actually. It simply sits there on the board staring menacingly at your opponent's creatures meaning I could sometimes get off free attacks with smaller-than-his creatures while avoiding counterattacks if I had any untapped dorks - without spending any precious pump effects to save my creatures. That way I could save 'em for lethal Berserks (until they tap a white mana in response... lol). :)

[Tacosnape]

Vengevine. Done. Pretty sure I called the card unplayable garbage not 24 hours before it made top 8 at the GP.

Also, Slippery Bogle. One of our guys runs a green stompy pump deck where everything has Trollshroud with 4 of him in it, and he's drawn out more Force of Wills than I ever care to admit.

[Forbiddian]

Vengevine. Done. Pretty sure I called the card unplayable garbage not 24 hours before it made top 8 at the GP.

Also, Slippery Bogle. One of our guys runs a green stompy pump deck where everything has Trollshroud with 4 of him in it, and he's drawn out more Force of Wills than I ever care to admit.


Damn, was just going to point out Vengevine, but was too slow.

Yeah, Vengevine. Oh, and Wild Mongrel ("Tarmogoyf made him unplayable.")

[SageOwl]

Lim-dul's vault

its a demonic tutor in this format.....

[Pastorofmuppets]

Damn, was just going to point out Vengevine, but was too slow.

Yeah, Vengevine. Oh, and Wild Mongrel ("Tarmogoyf made him unplayable.")

Speaking of cards people don't play anymore, why all the Mongoose hate?

[dschalter]

Speaking of cards people don't play anymore, why all the Mongoose hate?

Too small.

[leander?]

Flickerwisp. It seems kinda okay, but combined with an Aether Vial it's actually Jesus in disguise. With wings.

[keys]

Sensei's Divining Top

This.

[Paul_Giesen]

Æther Vial, didn't think it would be useful and gave away 22 of them.

[Atwa]

Æther Vial, didn't think it would be useful and gave away 22 of them.

You sir, buy way too many boxes.

[Gheizen64]

Top looked mediocre to me the first time. Too slow and mana intensive, i said.

Goyf, lol, well everyone was debating wether it was better or not than Werebear. It's sad to think at that now.

All planeswalker looked to me too slow and too vulnerable to big creatures to be playable in legacy. Guess i was pretty wrong. Even Sorin is playable.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Aether Vial. I thought it was just a slow Quicksilver Amulet. I didn't really have a good grasp on how tempo works at the time.

[jrsthethird]

High Tide. I loved Dark Ritual but that's because it let you explode stuff on turn 1, but didn't see a point to a blue version that was only worth it late game, and terrible in multicolored decks without dual lands.

[Gaius Darkfire]

I underestimated Planeswalkers in general. You can only use one ability a turn, at sorcery speed, creatures and burn can take them out, and they dont even attack on their own? Wow these are pretty meh, great casual cards.

Boy was I wrong.

[Quark.Nova]

I´am totally with all the guys underrating fetchlands. When i started playing, i thought "wow, why are those crappy lands so expensive". Time taught me this and much much more...

[nestle_19]

I would have to say Lions eye diamond and Phyrexian dreadnought.

Well, this was back in the day when they were first released. LED was unplayable because no one wants to lose their hand. This goes the same with the 12/12 artifact because no one could sacrifice that many creatures. Then came belcher, dredge, stifle etc. and the rest was history.

[Dark Ritual]

Goyf obviously. I know a guy who bought a foil one for $3 when it was released and was a dollar bin card. Oh how I wish I had scooped up a lot of them...I know a guy who kind of knew a guy who thought goyf was the nuts when it came out and stockpiled at least 40 of them before they sky rocketed. Must be nice to make $1600 off of $100 tops.

LED was very underrated; at the time, you could actually use it to cast a spell in your hand by announcing the spell then cracking it, discarding the rest of your hand so you didn't have to abuse it with tutors. Or so I heard.

Dreadnought was very underrated.

Stifle probably was too despite being in the same fucking block as the original fetchlands and people probably not catching onto the instant speed sinkhole for U that stifle is against fetchlands.

I think I may have opened an onslaught fetch when I was a casual scrub and thinking "Wow this card sucks its a land you have to pay life to use" <-- thought the same thing about the pain lands and if I had been playing during ravnica probably would have thought the same way about the shocks.

Empty the Warrens. I underrated it; in the few timespiral x3 drafts I did, whenever I saw that card I thought "What a piece of crap, why did they print this." Thought the same way about the storm mechanic; I thought "This takes too much mana and cards to be any good" because so much storm spells cost 3 or more mana.

Jace, TMS. I thought he would just drop from the 50 bucks he started out at. Like wow, now he's 70+ and once shards rotates will be worth over 100 because every deck in standard will play him as a 4 of along with some legacy decks playing the card and probably a lot of extended decks playing the card. He's just bonkers. I think he's a bit overrated in legacy right now though because he was played as a 3 of in the 2nd place deck by Tom Martell at Columbus.

Vengevine. I traded mine that I opened at the prerelease for 25 dollars in cards. Great job, now its worth $35+.

Blood seeker. The lose one life whenever a creature comes into play under control....completely wrecks bitterblossom. I once had to force of will one at a local tourney against a guy playing tribal vampires. Saddest. force of will. ever.

[Meekrab]

Flickerwisp. It seems kinda okay, but combined with an Aether Vial it's actually Jesus in disguise. With wings.
Off topic, but is the art on Flickerwisp the creepiest thing ever, or what? It's just a mouth with 14 legs and wings? D:!

[dahcmai]

Lion's Eye Diamond was pretty worthless when it came out. Somewhere along the line when 6th edition came out and they decided to make the whole stack thing, it broke it. Mox Diamond, Lotus Vale, and LED were all busted in half. You could play a Lotus Vale and get all the mana off it before it died. Same with Mox Diamond and LED. The thing with them was this whole idiotic order of casting a spell. You announced the spell in which it went on the stack right there, paid the cost, then it resolved. So LED became a one shot Black Lotus for a bit and Mox Diamonds were Lotus Petals.


Here's a funny story about some cards I underrated.

Once upon a time I thought Candelabra of Tawnos was the absolute most amazing card ever. When Teferi's Isle came out I made this deck that used the Isle to make two U, then untap it with the Candlelabra, then tap it again, getting 2 more, untap it again, etc... I went through an entire tournament with this amazing way of getting a 2 card combo infinite mana to Braingeyser people out. Then the guy in the finals explained what Mono Artifacts were. I was sad. To add insult to injury, he also explained that Candelabras are restricted to one per deck. Sad face again. <yes, it was restricted back then>


I can't believe I went that long without knowing that. I had played since Fallen Empires. It never came up. Hell, it was weird enough I got that far in the tournament without anyone knowing how that worked. I didn't own any other cards that had that on it. So of course I stuffed those Candelabras away since they were totally worthless obviously. Stuck them right next to those other useless lands from that same deck, Mishra's Workshops. Can't use them with the Candelabra, what's the point? I mean really, no infinite mana? Those blow.

[dontbiteitholmes]

LED was far from underrated when it came out. It was the money rare from the set. I always thought it was crap, and for a long time it was.

[kiblast]

Off topic, but is the art on Flickerwisp the creepiest thing ever, or what? It's just a mouth with 14 legs and wings? D:!

man,whenever i see flickerwisp, i think of David Lynch. Fear.

[cranksmith]

Armageddon. Seriously. I was a complete 12 year old newb back then.

I am like "so how can I cast my spells afterwards???".

A friend of mine flashed an Ernhamgeddon deck, I still don't get it. Probably 20+++ games later...

I became a believer. I am in love with the card since then.

[woremak]

It's kinda embarrassing, but Standstill.

Because I thought I could stifle it...

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Off topic, but is the art on Flickerwisp the creepiest thing ever, or what? It's just a mouth with 14 legs and wings? D:!

They don't really look like legs. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VaginaDentata)

[Tao]

Fauna Shaman. I knew he would be good in Standard but he is also good in Legacy.

[Valtrix]

Intuition. Man, I love diabolic tutors at instant speed that can set up loam shenanigans.

Also, spell pierce. "Oh boy, another conditional :u: counterspell" However, after playing with it I'm definitely a believer. Much, more more useful than first expected. And, in blue decks at the point that it becomes less relevant you can usually get rid of it easily enough.

[Tacosnape]

Fauna Shaman. I knew he would be good in Standard but he is also good in Legacy.

I reserve the right to post Fauna Shaman again, once I become convinced he's actually good.

[coraz86]

I reserve the right to post Fauna Shaman again, once I become convinced he's actually good.

QFT.

On topic, I've become a huge fan of Vindicate these last few months, triply so since planeswalkers have become such a huge pain in the format's ass. (Maybe it's a personal mania, but I'm never going back.)

[rockout]

Blood seeker. The lose one life whenever a creature comes into play under control....completely wrecks bitterblossom. I once had to force of will one at a local tourney against a guy playing tribal vampires. Saddest. force of will. ever.

I remember cracking a pithning needle at the savoirs pre-release and someone told me it was going to be worth money. I laughed. I don't know how good it still is but o well.

[Bryant Cook]

I remember cracking a pithning needle at the savoirs pre-release and someone told me it was going to be worth money. I laughed. I don't know how good it still is but o well.

It's worth about 4$ now.

[rockout]

From 15 to 4 how the mighty have fallen.

[lordofthepit]

Fauna Shaman. I knew he would be good in Standard but he is also good in Legacy.

I know this is the thread for underrated cards, but I'm not aware of any competitive Legacy deck that runs Fauna Shaman, besides possibly some form of Elves deck. Do you have a specific one in mind?

[CorpT]

From 15 to 4 how the mighty have fallen.

Just because it was reprinted in 10th and M10. Especially M10. It was a Rare in a set that had chase Mythics - that basically guarantees that it will drop in price.


I know this is the thread for underrated cards, but I'm not aware of any competitive Legacy deck that runs Fauna Shaman, besides possibly some form of Elves deck. Do you have a specific one in mind?

Chapin ran it in his Survival/Emrakul deck. I'm not sure if that makes it "competitive" but it certainly saw play on Day 2 of GP which should mean something.

[majikal]

Chapin ran it in his Survival/Emrakul deck. I'm not sure if that makes it "competitive" but it certainly saw play on Day 2 of GP which should mean something.
Pretty sure Chapin could have made Day 2 piloting a cup of Ramen noodles. Also Fauna Shaman cost him at least one match that I'm aware of. Probably more.

[anonymos]

LED was far from underrated when it came out. It was the money rare from the set. I always thought it was crap, and for a long time it was.

I'm going to disagree with your statement. LED was considered a junk rare for a LONG time.

The rares from Mirage that saw competitive play while it was legal in "standard" were Bazaar of Wonders, Cadaverous Bloom, Celestial Dawn (still not sure why - I was new), Frenetic Efreet, Hammer of Bogardan, Infernal Contract, Maro, Natural Balance, Sacred Mesa, Spirit of the Night. I didn't see LED or Dreadnought listed anywhere above junk rare prices.

Many of these cards barely passed 5-10 dollars each either other than Hammer. Behold the power of having back issues of Inquest still...

[Shawon]

I'm pretty sure most people underrated all Planeswalkers when Lorwyn came out with the first ever planeswalkers. I can still remember all "Planeswalkers suck, they'll never live past a turn" comments on forums in those months.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I'm going to disagree with your statement. LED was considered a junk rare for a LONG time.

The rares from Mirage that saw competitive play while it was legal in "standard" were Bazaar of Wonders, Cadaverous Bloom, Celestial Dawn (still not sure why - I was new), Frenetic Efreet, Hammer of Bogardan, Infernal Contract, Maro, Natural Balance, Sacred Mesa, Spirit of the Night. I didn't see LED or Dreadnought listed anywhere above junk rare prices.

Many of these cards barely passed 5-10 dollars each either other than Hammer. Behold the power of having back issues of Inquest still...

It was the money rare when the set initially came out. I don't know what happened after that I stopped buying cards for a while.

[4eak]

I'm pretty sure most people underrated all Planeswalkers when Lorwyn came out with the first ever planeswalkers

I really disagree with the idea that Planeswalkers have been underrated overall (which is what I think you are implying, even though that isn't what you've explicitly stated here). Planeswalkers generally do suck in Legacy. From Deckcheck, maindeck Planeswalker usage for all available Legacy decks:

PW -- Decks of any size tournament -- Decks of 33+ Person Tournaments
Ajani Goldmane -- 30 -- 11
Ajani Vengeant -- 51 -- 18
Chandra Ablaze -- 2 -- 0
Chandra Nalaar -- 6 -- 0
Elspeth, Knight-Errant -- 353 -- 156
Garruk Wildspeaker -- 85 -- 40
Gideon Jura --2 -- 2
Jace Beleren -- 155 -- 58
Jace, the Mind Sculptor -- 155 --78
Liliana Vess -- 16 -- 4
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker -- 3 -- 2
Nissa Revane -- 2 -- 1
Sarkhan Vol -- 10 -- 3
Sarkhan the Mad -- 0 -- 0
Sorin Markov -- 6 -- 2
Tezzeret the Seeker -- 16 -- 1

For Comparison:
Tarmogoyf -- 3523 -- 1725
Eternal Witness -- 914 -- 409
Shock -- 28 -- 11 (sadly, Didgeroo and Nourishing Lich came up short for this example)

I will say, given how long it has been out, Jace, the Mind Sculptor has shown itself to be fairly good. Given the slightly more than 6 months it has been available, here is an approximate maindeck impact comparison of Jace and Goyf (given the same time frame, since their debuts).

1510 Decks, 155 used Jace -- 10%
494 Decks, 123 used Tarmogoyf -- 25%
(Legacy has obviously grown)

Noteworthy, I didn't count the number of Jace and Goyfs actually played in a deck, and Goyf's numbers would most certainly improve even further if we considered the average quantity in each deck playing it (almost always 4x when played) in our analysis. Planeswalkers, even when played in a deck, aren't played in great quantities, which further limits how much impact they really have.



peace,
4eak

[clavio]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?11278-[Question-35]-Planeswalkers-in-Legacy

These guys didn't think Elspeth would see any play in legacy. I think thats an example of a card being underrated chief.

[Shawon]

@4eak: What I was talking about in my post was people dismissing planeswalkers in any deck, with no particular format in mind. Your data shows that planeswalkers saw tourney play, albeit small percentages, so I still agree that a lot of people underrated planeswalkers when they came out in Lorwyn, not Shards Block or later.

[4eak]

@ clavio


These guys didn't think Elspeth would see any play in legacy. I think thats an example of a card being underrated chief.

But, this is not an example which counters what I've said. My argument certainly allows for exceptions (Jace 2.0 and Elspeth, for example) -- I was explaining how Planeswalkers overall have not been underrrated. Please read again, because I was rebutting this claim (actually, somewhat broader, because I think more was implied):


I'm pretty sure most people underrated all Planeswalkers when Lorwyn came out with the first ever planeswalkers

As to your reply, let me first say that "3 people" is not the same as "most people" (and only 2 of them commented on Elspeth). Second, even if most people were wrong about Elspeth (your example isn't an indicator either, btw) does not mean that "most people underrated all Planeswalkers".

In my view, your example of Elspeth is a poor one too, as the degree to which Elspeth has been misjudged by the masses at the time it was released may not have been far off; honestly, Elspeth hasn't really had a ton of impact on Legacy.

For anyone interested in more context behind those comments, at the time they were made this was the DTB Forum (http://web.archive.org/web/20080805034444/www.mtgthesource.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23).

By and large, what I believe to be the Legacy community's perspective on Planeswalkers in general (exclude Jace 2.0 if you want), have been fairly accurate. Even for more recent perspectives on PWs, I would go so far as to suggest that it was reasonable to believe that dedicated control was dying and that PWs were growing weaker until the banning of Mystical tutor (which was completely unforseen). I wouldn't call that underrating though -- we need to consider predictions within context.

For comparison, let me give you an example of some Lorwyn cards that were truly underrated at the time:

Merfolk.

Few people took Teh Fish seriously enough. Hell, even today, some people suggest/joke about the deck as not "being a real deck". It has proven to be a real predator and a contender (admittedly, to my surprise, even in a very Zoo heavy metagame).

With all of that said, I think Planeswalkers may be getting stronger, especially with our shifting metagame. Jace 2.0 appears to have better and better positioning in the evolving metagame; it may be the first PW that is worth building around (Elspeth missing the mark, just barely).


Edited in:

@ Shawon


What I was talking about in my post was people dismissing planeswalkers in any deck, with no particular format in mind.

You should be clearer; we are on a Legacy forum (even if other formats are discussed).


Your data shows that planeswalkers saw tourney play, albeit small percentages, so I still agree that a lot of people underrated planeswalkers when they came out in Lorwyn, not Shards Block or later.

This isn't exactly agreeing with your initial statement. Even so, I still disagree with you. I gave you two examples of cards which have tournament results that I don't consider very relevant to Legacy -- I did that to put the Planeswalkers in perspective. I think Eternal Witness is only barely playable in competitive Legacy, and Shock (which has more tournament results than the majority of PWs) is a complete fluke. You see my point, right? Even if PWs put up some results, it was usually noise, not signal.

Perhaps we disagree on the degree to which a prediction must be accurate in order for it to be valid; perhaps we don't even agree on what the general sentiment was on these cards at the time. I apologize if I'm not understanding you correctly. From what I can see, the predictions/ratings of the Lorwyn PWs were fairly accurate. Planeswalkers from that era have done very little in this format; and I think the skeptics of PWs from that era were generally correct.




peace,
4eak

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I actually bought 24 Lords of Atlantis before Lorwyn came out, since they were $0.40 each at the time and just fundamentally a retarded card waiting for any other non-sucky Merfolk to get printed.

I did think Planeswalkers were over-rated when they came out, but I'm not sure if that counts as under-rating them. Cards that do new things always get hyped through the roof. No one remembers Upwelling.


I think Eternal Witness is only barely playable in competitive Legacy

I don't agree with this btw. I think Eternal Witness is a card like Lim-Dul's Vault or Vedalken Shackles that won't see real play at all until the metagame shifts to where it's suddenly amazing. That and as long as Survival of the Fittest sees play it will still randomly top 8 as a 1-of.

[Michael Keller]

I think there's a fine balance between underrating a card when it comes out and justifying a card's worth as newer cards get printed. Here's a couple I thought of off the top of my head that saw/see play and were at one time forgotten or just unused in competitive play:

Gamekeeper: Once Oath of Druids got the axe, people looked for different ways to cheat larger creatures into play. This guy ended up seeing some action and proved to be pretty effective before loads of different graveyard hate (Leyline of the Void, Relic of Progenitus, Extirpate, etc.) were printed. Doesn't see as much play as he used to, but proved to be pretty effective in its first several years in the format.

The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale: This card collected dust for so many years. Even when Living Wish was released, people at first never really considered it a target as toolbox sideboards became more intricate over the years. This card was (and still is) very rare, which is part of the reason the price-tag on these fetches close to three bills. It's no wonder it sees play today; it is an uncounterable way of wiping the board of a large number of creatures without doing anything, really. When the rise in value of a card increases that much, it's quite obvious people started seeing it for how effective it truly is.

Dream Halls: I believe it may have been Inquest magazine called it the "worst card in the set" when Stronghold was first released, but I may be wrong on that; I don't know. Either way, the card went a while before seeing any real play. Once it did, it got banned. So yeah, I personally think it's awful, but apparently some people thought it was good enough to remove from the format for many years. Go figure.

[coraz86]

Dream Halls: I believe it may have been Inquest magazine called it the "worst card in the set" when Stronghold was first released, but I may be wrong on that; I don't know. Either way, the card went a while before seeing any real play. Once it did, it got banned. So yeah, I personally think it's awful, but apparently some people thought it was good enough to remove from the format for many years. Go figure.

I believe Zvi Mowshowitz won a Tour with Dream Halls shortly after it was introduced to Standard, using a Gaea's Blessing/Inspiration kill that made 43lands look like the Phoenix Suns by comparison. One wonders if it got banned for the same (largely time constraint) reason that Divining Top got the axe in Extended, or that Land Tax is illegal in Legacy.

Also, one of my friends (goes by fishnabubu on here) built a fun Dream Halls deck and rocked some socks with it for a while, placed second at this January's Duel for Duals and won a handful of side events at the GP (though it crapped all over him in the main event).

More on topic; I love Death Cloud like nobody's business, and the day I can make it relevant in Legacy will be without question the high point of my life. Thing was a house in Standard and Extended, but I'm having a hell of a time finding a home for it in Legacy.

[4eak]

@ IBA


I don't agree with this btw. I think Eternal Witness is a card like Lim-Dul's Vault or Vedalken Shackles that won't see real play at all until the metagame shifts to where it's suddenly amazing. That and as long as Survival of the Fittest sees play it will still randomly top 8 as a 1-of.

I agree. I shouldn't have deleted the word "extremely" before the word "competitive", as Eternal Witness has rarely (maybe never) been an integral part of a tier 1 Legacy deck (Survival's strength has been fleeting). Eternal Witness is metagame dependent, but I think it can be very strong.

Oddly, Survival Tempo decks (sporting Wasteland and Vengevine) appear to be foregoing some of the traditional Survival tools (Squee, Witness, etc.). I'm not sure if that trend will continue or not. I personally run both in my GW and UG Survival Tempo builds, but few would agree to it.



peace,
4eak

[Parax]

The statistics on the amount of decks playing card x is a little misleading. You'll have to remember that:

A) Goyf has had approx 3 years head start on Jace 2.0.
B) Eternal Witness even more

Couple of ideas to make the data more relevant.

Lets look at the card that places most in each set/block.

Now i know i got sidetracked and i apologize for that.

Back to the subject i underrated Smokestack. I always loved the card and hoarded them from a young age cause i liked them. But i never thought they'd ever make it in a competitive deck.

[Grollub]

It was the money rare when the set initially came out. I don't know what happened after that I stopped buying cards for a while.
Interesting. In Denmark it never was a chase rare until much later, despite being played in Vintage as a 4-of in the, at the time, dominating deck - Twister/Tutor.

Grinning Totem was the topdog here starting at around 20$ with Hammer quickly overtaking the spot. Other pricey rares would be Political Trickery, Tombstone Stairwell, Final Fortune and Forsaken Wastes.

............

Another card I initially underrated would be... Island. Mountain and Forest had much bigger and faster creatures! :-D