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Fyren
07-28-2010, 08:42 AM
I've looked around the forum, but I couldn't find a thread that deals only with this deck, so I figured I'd start one.

The deck I'm talking about is this. This list was originally posted by Steven Birklid in his article (http://strategy.channelfireball.com/featured-articles/sweeping-ice-and-other-important-topics-emrakul-and-the-gang/).


Hypergenesis Combo - how to tentacle-rape your opponents
* 2 Hypergenesis
* 4 Violent Outburst
* 2 Ardent Plea
* 4 Show and Tell
* 4 Force of Will
* 2 Misdirection
* 2 Vendilion Clique
* 2 Angel of Despair
* 3 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
* 4 Progenitus
* 4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
* 4 Simian Spirit Guide
* 4 Elvish Spirit Guide
* 4 City of Traitors
* 4 Misty Rainforest
* 3 Flooded Strand
* 2 Savannah
* 2 Volcanic Island
* 2 City of Brass

* 1 Forest
* 1 Island



A friend of mine was so kind to send me the link, and started to go on about how much potential this deck has. My first thoughts on this deck (and the article in general) where:

Oh god, not that legacy-hating idiot again
wow, this deck really sucks (it looses against a great number of things)
hmm, raping people with Emrakul sounds fun though
I suppose this deck can be good if noone is expecting it
lets try this out
(various testgames)
wow, this deck sucks


Why did I end up at "this deck sucks" again? Simple. In about 30 testgames against the goldfish, the goldfish won at least 5 times. For this purpose, unprotected combo later then turn3 or 4, and protected combo later then turn 6 where considered a loss. The reasons are:

Aggro is able to beat you to death within no more then 4 turns, 3 beeing possible with the right draw
Decks that play counter usually don't generate pressure that fast, but a well placed force will kill you


Still, the idea of the deck got me, so I started trying things out.

The first card that didn't make the cut was Ardent Plea.
It's not instant speed, your opponent gets the chance to cheat enough critters into play to still outrace you with his next attack, and its the only white card in the deck. Enough reasons for me to not like it. Splashing an extra color for the worst card in your deck doesn't sound like a good plan to me, so I got rid of it.

Next up to prove its value where the creatures.
Emrakul and Progenitus are both spot removal proof, and end the game in 1-2 attacks. Also, tentacle raping people without the big tentacle guy is kind of hard to do. So those 2 where auto-included as 4-offs.

The rest didn't perform so well.
Sphinx of the Steelwind is nice, but its not removal proof. It really sucks to force your S&T to resolve, only to see your game-winner loose to a one mana instant. Of course, you can counter that removal, but having only 4 FoW to do that, which you will most likely already have used to make sure your S&T/Hypergeneses resolve, make that a pretty hard task.
For the same reason, Angel of Despair had to go.

Vendilion Clique was allowed to stay though, because you can hardcast it, and with a resolved Hypergenesis, you can use it as a double protection against the few things that can still defeat you.

With 7 cards out of the maindeck, theres the question of what you want to play instead.
First of all, I wanted some kind of tutor in this deck, because way to often you have the lands and the outburst, but no creature. Or you have the creature and the mana, but no outburst/plea/s&t.
There isn't really that much option in the 3+ mana slot for that though. There's the black tutors like Cruel Tutor, but that would require an additional color again. Which really only leaves Intuition as a valid option, because any spell for more then 3 mana will be too slow.
Those 4 Intuitions got some backup in the form of Drift of Phantasms, since a lot of the cards you want to find cost 3 mana, and if you happen to need an Emrakul/Progenitus, you can still search for Intuition first. 2 Drifts should be enough though.

Only one card left to put in this deck then. That slot went to a 3rd genesis pretty fast.
Mainly because I wanna be able to do EoT Outburst > Opponent counters Genesis, mainphase or opponents upkeep Outburst again. With one genesis in your hand, thats impossible to do if you only play 2 of them.

Anyway, heres the final deck. I'm looking forward to you guys ripping it apart :smile:



* 3 Hypergenesis
* 4 Violent Outburst
* 2 Drift of Phantasms
* 4 Show and Tell
* 4 Force of Will
* 2 Misdirection
* 2 Vendilion Clique
* 4 Intuition
* 4 Progenitus
* 4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
* 4 Simian Spirit Guide
* 4 Elvish Spirit Guide
* 4 Tropical Island
* 4 Misty Rainforest
* 4 Scalding Tarn
* 4 Volcanic Island
* 1 Mountain
* 1 Forest
* 1 Island

kicks_422
07-28-2010, 10:59 AM
I've been having fun with it for months now on MWS. It's really explosive, and you can set up bomb after bomb for consecutive turns. Here's the build I'm running ATM.

// Lands
4 [IN] Sulfur Vent
4 [8E] City of Brass
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine

// Creatures
4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4 [CFX] Inkwell Leviathan
4 [CFX] Progenitus
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [MM] Misdirection
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ARB] Violent Outburst
4 [ARB] Ardent Plea
2 [TSP] Hypergenesis
2 [SC] Form of the Dragon

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [LRW] Ingot Chewer
SB: 3 [ALA] Empyrial Archangel
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip

nodahero
07-28-2010, 05:44 PM
The list I have been testing is as follows:
// Lands
4 [CHK] Forbidden Orchard
4 [8E] City of Brass
4 [DCI] Gemstone Mine

// Creatures
4 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4 [ROE] Pathraze of Ulamog
4 [CFX] Progenitus
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [MM] Misdirection
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [US] Show and Tell
4 [ARB] Violent Outburst
4 [ARB] Ardent Plea
2 [ARB] Demonic Dread
2 [TSP] Hypergenesis
2 [SC] Form of the Dragon

the sideboard of my list is constatnly in flux although it typically includes SnT 3 and 4 as well as FotD 3 and 4. The other slots bounce around alot but typically are more resilient threats such as Ascendant Evincar to beat on Thopter tokens (he isn't the best but I cant find a similar wrath effect...) My board also includes often the 4 mana coercion by exiling a card as a 2 or 3 of.

Vacrix
07-28-2010, 05:51 PM
Hypergenesis Combo - how to tentacle-rape your opponents

I'm afraid Tendrils has you one up on tentacle rape:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=45842&type=card

Thems some sexy tentacles right there!

Also, Form of the Dragon is a terrible card. You will beat Elves and Goblins. Woot almost nobody plays those decks these days. You need to prepare for Zoo.

kicks_422
07-29-2010, 01:03 AM
What Form of the Dragon does is that if it resolves, it gives you a huge advatange in the aggro-control and control MU. Once that lands against Merfolk, CounterTop, Landstill etc. there's no way for them to get rid of it aside from the occasional bounce.

That said, i would think I could move it to the SB as surprise bombs for S&T/Hypergenesis. I'm not sure what to replace them with in the MD though... Iona?

EDIT: Actually, a resolved Hypergenesis isn't a sure win against aggro. There are hands where you will just drop an Inkwell and a Progenitus, and they'd go crazy with double Piledriver, and 2 more Goblins. You won't be able to race against that.

Benjammn
07-29-2010, 01:10 AM
I'm afraid Tendrils has you one up on tentacle rape:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=45842&type=card

Thems some sexy tentacles right there!

Also, Form of the Dragon is a terrible card. You will beat Elves and Goblins. Woot almost nobody plays those decks these days. You need to prepare for Zoo.

Goblins is played quite a bit still. Here is the rest of the decks it is good against:
Lands
New Horizons (I beat David Price last weekend by resolving one G2...)
Merfolk (to an extent, Commander makes it less so)

The amount that it blows NH out is reason enough for its inclusion. And this deck needs to prepare for Zoo? What? This deck goldfishes T2 at least 70%, T1 10%. What can Zoo play that beats an Emrakul off of a Hypergenesis? The awesome Zoo MU is one of the reasons to play Hypergenesis...

denial
07-29-2010, 01:34 AM
I've been having fun with it for months now on MWS.

// Lands
4 [IN] Sulfur Vent





?????

kicks_422
07-29-2010, 03:21 AM
It creates 2 colored mana and gives you a Turn 2 opportunity to play a cascade spell or S&T with Spirit Guides as Daze payments. You won't be casting anything on Turn 1 anyway. And if it gets Waste'd, it's just the same as if they Waste'd any other Turn 1 land.

caenel
07-29-2010, 04:29 AM
Just a stupid little question here from me, but I cannot find a clearcut answer anywhere:

How does Violent Eruption allow you to cast Hypergenesis at instant speed (as I've been reading everywhere)? Does the cascade keyword give those spells 'cast as if it was instant speed' somewhere? I don't get it.
If it is not possible to play Hypergenesis at instant speed, what is the advantage of using Violent Eruption (instant speed) vs Ardent Plea (non-instant speed) then?

If anyone could clarify things for me, I would be very grateful.

kicks_422
07-29-2010, 05:02 AM
Short answer: Cascade allows you to play the cascaded spells at instant speed.

Fyren
07-29-2010, 05:55 AM
The Cascade mechanic itself requires that you can play the revealed card at instant speed. Otherwise you would be cascading into, lets say a Tarmogoyf, and couldn't play it because the original spell with cascade is still on the Stack. So for the same reason you can do Bloodbraid Elf into Sprouting Thrinax in standard, you can cascade into Hypergenesis at your opponents EoT.

Wich brings me to another point that was made in the discussion:
If you resolve a hypergenesis in your turn, you can still get beat to death by whatever your opponent can throw on the board. To work around this is why I included Intuition and got rid of the Plea: you can cast Intuition at your opponents end of turn, then search Show and Tell, then cast Show and Tell in your turn, so your opponent just gets only 1 card to cheat in. If I resolve one of these spells (Hypergenesis or S&T) I wanna have won the match, and not struggle against whatever the dude on the other side of the table puts into play with these effects. Afterall, its the job of the Hypergenesis player to break the symetry of his keycards.


@Benjammn:
Those may be some nice tentacles, but nothing compares to the master of all emos:
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ptc/44.jpg

caenel
07-29-2010, 11:25 AM
Thanks for the quick replies.

It should've made sense to me, but for some reason, it didn't. All things are clear now, thanks!

jcsy
08-25-2010, 01:42 PM
has anyone managed to improve the decks consistency, using tutor card such as :

drift of phantasms?

just a suggestion for being a 3 mana tutor, being blue and looking for vendillion clique, oblivion ring (if you run that) , show & tell, 3 cmc cascade

but slows you down a full turn

Pastorofmuppets
08-26-2010, 11:36 AM
What Form of the Dragon does is that if it resolves, it gives you a huge advatange in the aggro-control and control MU. Once that lands against Merfolk, CounterTop, Landstill etc. there's no way for them to get rid of it aside from the occasional bounce.
.

Landstill: Good ol' disenchant?
CounterBantlance or whatever: Krosan Grip, Qasali Pridemage
Merfolk: depends on splash color, dunnit?

Also, with Merfolk running MD'd Echoing Truth, you may have yourself a problem.

9/25/2006: In a game of N players, the process ends when all N players in sequence (starting with you) choose not to put a card onto the battlefield. It doesn't end the first time a player chooses not to put a card onto the battlefield. If a player chooses not to put a card onto the battlefield but the process continues, that player may put a card onto the battlefield the next time the process gets around to him or her.
^people always seem to forget that tidbit of bolded text on the magiccards.info page. Just posting it here for your sake

Also, I'm skeptical to this being the "best" cascade deck. Sure, dropping big dumbshits is fun, but Restore Balance and Living End have room to win even after their first cascade spell is countered. It seems like here you'd do a double-Spirit Guide turn 1 then be plum out of resources when your opponent flashes Daze or Force. Hell, even Stifle.

jcsy
08-31-2010, 09:08 PM
its a deck of surprise, probably in a meta with no expectations of it

i realized when people expect hyper, you just get your head blown off to bits.

anyways, back to the discussion :

Form of the dragon might be a sideboard card, but not in the main deck

Im not convinced Sphinx of Steel Wind wins the game automatically but does have some serious potential against certain matchups, which we should already be winning nonetheless...

Its blue though, to pitch for Misdirection & FOW:cry:

gzeiger
09-03-2010, 04:09 PM
This deck needs to have at least three Iona in the main deck. Rarely will the beatdown deck be able to race Iona plus one of the real fatties (Emrakul kills the following turn, and Progenitus gives you one solid block before killing them) even if there are multiple Piledrivers or Tarmogoyfs involved, and by herself she shuts down removal from Merfolk or Reanimator. The most important point though is how hard it is to pull off a Tendrils sequence with Iona in play. This dramatically improves the combo matchup.

Sulfur Vent is a fine land. I might even play a fifth of that family, as it is important to be able to combo fast. It is slightly weaker than a multiland against decks that can counter Hypergenesis in that it leaves you short of mana to cast a second one, but there will be at least as many times that it gives you four mana to resist Daze, or gives you the key third mana on turn 2.

The mana base should include all eight copies of City of Brass and Forbidden Orchard. Not only does this remove any objection to "splashing" Ardent Plea, but it also ensures that as long as you announce your stacks correctly you will always be able to counter Stifle with Misdirection. Forbidden Orchard will never do more than two points of damage to you; the worst-case scenario is you play an end step Vendilion Clique prior to the cascade spell, ending with them having two tokens you can't block. This is the same damage you would take from City of Brass to make that play.

slaughtercult
09-05-2010, 06:39 AM
Why not try Stormtide Leviathan against zoo and goblins? It is blue (force pitch), acts like a Moat, and is huge.

jcsy
09-05-2010, 08:25 AM
A resolved Show & Tell or Cascade Hyper would usually mean Progenitus, Emrakul

Stormtide just doesnt cut it against Zoo or Goblins.

In another topic I follow (REANIMATOR) Blazing Archon, Sphinx of Steel Wind, Inkwell Leviathan is usually more decent.

Currently I'm running a test list which involves Iona and Oblivion Ring, them being too flexible to stop many decks

I am still finding the right amount of counters , especially against a heavy blue meta..